Broke one of my own rules and its going to cost me....

threadkiller · « **Reply #60 on:** 20 Nov 2012, 05:29 am »

Well, loving Naim the way I do, I still am not a fan of the Superline, regardless of its price.
Perhaps you'll find it otherwise.

SteevA · « **Reply #61 on:** 20 Nov 2012, 09:46 pm »

With the P75 back in I would now describe the Moon as more refined but a bit reticent compared to the P75, which is comparitively a bit of a party animal - not terribly refined, in fact a bit raucus, but good fun to have around.

The Pure Audio, in comparison, sounded like it could have been the grown up big brother of the P75; same voice, more refined, with more going on up-top but still knowing how to party.

Now to organise the Superline.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #62 on:** 1 Dec 2012, 07:49 pm »

Superline is in the system and I was offered the Pure Audio Vinyl back again - so it is connected up as well. At present there is no clear winner but the Vinyl still has its nose slightly in front. The Naim is brand new so may change as it settles (probably will knowing Naim).

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #63 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 04:58 am »

Nice! What are you powering the Superline with, Steve?
And you know as well as I, a cold Naim is not a good name.
Wait a bit before you decide. It could take upwards of 30 days or more....

SteevA · « **Reply #64 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 07:07 am »

Just off the Aux2 input of the 52 - so effectively off just two feeds from the Supercap. They alluded to my keeping it longer than a week but Im not sure it will stretch to a month.

I am not sure it has reached its best but it seems pretty stable and not all over the place like the CDX2.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #65 on:** 2 Dec 2012, 02:47 pm »

Still, very nice. Very nice indeed. I've only played with the Superline thru a Hicap.
Keep playing if you've only got a week.

SteevA · « **Reply #66 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 03:33 am »

Suffice it to say I am very impressed with both and they both leave the Moon well behind.

After a day and a half of listening I think I would be severely challenged to tell the two apart in a blind test. Not only are they both very good but they are very similar. This is slightly disappointing as I had hoped I would be able to select between two slightly different presentations. Perhaps this goes to support the theory that the better pieces of equipment are the less they are modifying the source material so the more likely they are to sound the same.

I did have a bit of a problem as when the Superline was selected I would get an occasional pop through the speakers. This was fixed by earthing the arm to the 52 instead of the Superline. I recall the same issue with the Vinyl when I first used it so I suspect it is not the phono amps causing it.

It may change, but I am beginning to suspect that a final decision may come down to something like aesthetics, fit to rack, versatility, toss of a coin. Brand loyalty and local manufacture loyalty pretty much cancel each other out and the prices as tested are too close for that to be a factor.

I think I will go to prolonged sessions with each unit (a couple of days) next, maybe that will help - he said hopefully...

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #67 on:** 3 Dec 2012, 10:14 am »

The occasional popping is still there but greatly reduced. Only occurs when cable from arm is pluggeg in and you only notice it when not playing music.

Will see what effect increasing capacitence has.

Even without that think I enjoy the pure audio more but I cant work out why.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #68 on:** 9 Dec 2012, 10:55 pm »

Well, the judges have handed in their verdict and the Vinyl wins by a nose.

The Superline had more bass but the Vinyl was more relaxed and open. In comparison the Superline sounded a little congested and like it was trying too hard.

I found that I after listening to the Vinyl for a while I would start thinking it was time I fired up the Superline again but when listening to the Superline I would start wondering how what I was listening to would sound on the Vinyl. I think I was simple just enjoying listening to the Vinyl more. However, it took a lot of effort to work out what it was different about them since they were, on the surface of it, very close. I suspect that with a Supercap attached the Superline could well prove the better unit but by then it would be around 3x the price of the Vinyl, plus taking up a huge amount of shelf space.

After some experimentation, both units ended up with a 220 ohm load. They were located beside each other on the same shelf with the PSU for the CDP below them and the pre-amp above them. The Superline was plugged into what some think is the better input in the pre-amp (can’t say I have verified this though).

Both are well designed and superbly built. The Naim unit was a lot heavier, probably due to the suspended circuit board mechanism it employs, but it fits into the rack a lot easier. However I could never take it (along with the TT) off to a friend’s house as I would have no way to power it unless they also owned Naim gear.

RFI. I have not known my place to be particularly subject to RFI but these units have proved that to be wrong. The Vinyl produced a motorboating like hum when I switched out the capacitive loading and according to the product designer this is due to a local TV station still transmitting analogue TV. The Superline would periodically dump pops into the system, which I had to increase capacitive loading to, almost, remove. Reading on the net this is also caused by RFI. I could probably have completely removed it by increasing the capacitive loading further.

I don’t think I have the energy to try out any more of these things, so now it is just a matter of accumulating the pennies.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #69 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 01:58 am »

Hi Steve,
Good to hear.
I've recently done a mea culpa and have changed my tune on the Superline. In an all Naim context it's much better than I thought. Like any Naim piece that can benefit from upgrade power supplies, the Superline certainly can. Yet as you say, the price goes up. And quickly.
I might add that for your cartridge a loading of 510 from the Superline seems to be preferred. 510 or 5 something. It's a tip from Peter at Cymbiosis, the Naim guru.

Looks like you've sorted it, so congrats and happy listening when your ship comes in.
Chas

SteevA · « **Reply #70 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 04:15 am »

I did try the next higher loading and it was so close I did not think it was worth worrying about in the context of having a week to make a choice between the two machines. I don't think it made the Superline different enough to change the outcome.

For a while I thought I was not going to be able to make a decision based on SQ and might have to rely on something else. I even built a spreadsheet with scores and weightings to help me sort through it all. I finally began to get a grip on the SQ differences when I extended my listening sessions between swapping.

I had both units wired into the pre amp at all times and reasonable access behind the rack, so swapping was relatively painless and did not involve moving any boxes.

It was a lot easier to change loadings on the Superline as that plug system is really good (I had to pull the Vinyl out of the rack to change settings) but that is only really an advantage while as you set things up or for experimentation.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #71 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 05:10 am »

Now that sounds like dedication!

What was the rest of your system again?
52? And..

SteevA · « **Reply #72 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 06:38 am »

CDX2 XPS2 52 Supercap 250. Bespoke speakers built by a friend (blew the doors off my previous Dynaudio Contour 1.8 mk2s). DIY cables and rack (although I have all the Naim cables).

250 is next in line for upgrade - to either 300 or DV HX100.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #73 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 02:15 pm »

I love the new Dynavector amp.
That being said, Naim goes with Naim.

And while it was a good turn to ditch the unmusical Dynaudios,
I doubt the DIY cables with Naim I would prefer. Different, yes, better, probably not.
Naim to Naim.
That was one of the reasons I disliked the Superline all this time before, not used in a proper Naim system.
Now, that's just my half cent, nothing more.

SteevA · « **Reply #74 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: threadkiller on 10 Dec 2012, 02:15 pm

I love the new Dynavector amp.
That being said, Naim goes with Naim.

And while it was a good turn to ditch the unmusical Dynaudios,
I doubt the DIY cables with Naim I would prefer. Different, yes, better, probably not.
Naim to Naim.
That was one of the reasons I disliked the Superline all this time before, not used in a proper Naim system.
Now, that's just my half cent, nothing more.

That is certainly the conventional wisdom, for some a religion, but I am not a religious person and sometimes I am not wise either.

I have swapped cables backward and forward a few times and always ended up back with the same ones. They are loosely based on the Slinkylinks idea, except built with the DIN connectors and using Teflon tubing instead of whatever plastic Slinkylinks use.

The speaker cables were a bit of a challenge as while they had worked on the Dynaudios they failed to work on my current speakers. Increasing the number of conductors sorted it but it took days to build/rebuild them before I could prove that. It just started as an experiment with one cable then I was given roll of very fine Teflon tubing and decided that clearly I was meant to do something with such a gift.

My current amp is quite adequate but I reckon the speakers will respond well to more grunt. The DV appeals because it is a 1 box solution. I am also aware that several have used the earlier HX1.2 to good effect with Naim front ends.

Going to the 300 will require a second rack. I might also test out the Pure Audio mono power amps if I reach the point of deciding to build/buy a second rack. But all that is at least a year away and I don't even plan to seek out any demos till a lot closer to the time.

Steve

threadkiller · « **Reply #75 on:** 12 Dec 2012, 01:50 am »

Good luck in your pursuits, Steve.
With all the DIY and mixing, I have nothing further to add.
I, too, know folks who have tried mixing Naim with others, to poor results.
And so it goes....

SteevA · « **Reply #76 on:** 7 Jan 2013, 02:01 am »

Well, I wandered down to the dealers at lunch time and pulled the pin. At least he asked if I wanted him to get it organised and I believe I mumbled 'yes'. I believe my credit card should feel the first shockwave by the end of the month.

The slight delay is because I am taking the opportunity, since the Vinyl is made locally, to have it in a darker colour (plus with a reduced LED brightness). The one I demoed stood out like an albino black bear cub in my rack.

...and then there was a demo HX100 down there as well....

But before I do some serious comparisons between the HX100, NAP300 and the other so far identified contenders - the Pure Audio mono blocks, I might borrow the HX100 just to see how my speakers respond to more muscle. But I do admit that this could prove a precipitous and dangerous move.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #77 on:** 15 Jan 2013, 12:40 am »

Since it is (supposed to be) summer down here the case manufacturers are still off on holiday so they wont be able to even start making the darker case until next week.

Being that it is only a few months old and I am a bit impatient, I have decided to buy the unit I demoed and later swap the standard lid for the new dark one. The dealer thought I might get a visit from the designer to adjust the LED brightness on site. It is handy that he lives only a couple of km from me.

So, I will pick up that unit, for its third and final visit, tomorrow.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #78 on:** 10 Feb 2013, 09:13 am »

Ok, so to conclude this saga, the new toy has finally arrived. The only one, so far, to be finished in black.

In the end, we just did a complete unit swap when the new one arrived, as it was simpler than swapping lids.

Catching some fresh air just prior to instalation.

In situ down below the Versalex.

My next, somewhat less expensive, exercise it to test under the Versalex some of the different shelves I have left over from my rack experimentation days.

Steve

SteevA · « **Reply #79 on:** 18 Jul 2013, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: threadkiller on 12 Dec 2012, 01:50 am

Good luck in your pursuits, Steve.
With all the DIY and mixing, I have nothing further to add.
I, too, know folks who have tried mixing Naim with others, to poor results.
And so it goes....

Ended up testing all the amps mentioned and selected the HX100. The Pure Audios had superior midrange and trebble but did not quite master the bass with my speakers.

However there are now production issues with the HX100 so that plan went nowhere.

In the mean time I got offered a 2nd hand 500 so am now going that route.

Steve