AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: mlundy57 on 19 Jun 2013, 12:54 am
-
The build is now underway. At this point in time I am building a 3 piece system, X-LS Encores for L&R Fronts and an X-CS Encore for the center. Later on I will build a pair of X-MTM Encores for the front channels and move the LS's to the rear for a five speaker system. After that I will most likely add a 12" servo sub to round out the 5.1 system.
I decided to build the X-LS Encore and X-CS Encore cabinets out of 3/4" Baltic Birch. They will be stained then shellacked. I haven't decided on color or actual finish coat yet.
I am doing a fairly complete upgrade. In addition to NoRez, Sonicaps and Mills Resisters I am adding Sonicap bypass caps and Erse XQ inductors. I will also be point to point wiring the crossovers foregoing the circuit board altogether. Additionally I am replacing the straight port tube with the flared port tube used in the N1X kit. Per Danny's recommendations I am also extending the tube length a little for a more balanced bottom end.
I started out making templates out of poster board and laying them out to match the grain and best use the wood. I was able to get all pieces out of one 5' X 5' sheet of Baltic Birch. Lessn learned: after going to all the trouble to match the grain on adjacent pieces, mark said pieces with all pertinent information including which piece goes with each other :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82384)
Then I cut out the pieces for all three speakers
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82385)
I cut the tops and bottoms a little wider to make lining things up easier then flush trimmed the overhang. Here is the jig I set up to provide more stability for the router
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82386)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82388)
and here's after flush trimming but before any sanding. The painter's tape was to keep the bearing from marking the plywood.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82389)
Here are the X-LS Encore cabinets with the bracing installed.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82390)
Now for a question. When installing NoRez on the sides, how close to the front baffle should it come?
Mike
-
Hey Mike, Nice job, looks great :thumb:
hehe, I think I've almost seen that question more than any other
Enogh clearance is needed so the no res doesn't interfere with the woofers... i went about 1/25" if I remeber right. . I think there has been a few different #'s anwhere from about 1" and up
-jay
-
Now for a question. When installing NoRez on the sides, how close to the front baffle should it come?
You can come right up to the front baffle, but stay back about 1" or so from the front baffle around the woofer. You don't want to block the woofer in with the foam.
-
I usually keep the No-Rez back 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" from behind the front baffle which works very well.
-
Mike,
In addition to lining the cabinet interior walls with No-Rez, I suggest using 1 to 1-1/2 ounces of Acousti-Stuf teased out and placed in the back of the X-LS Encore cabinets from top to bottom. The X-CS Encore will require about 2-1/2 to 3 ounces. You can use an ounce scales which are available from drug stores or stores like Walmart, to weigh out the damping material. I have found that Acousti-Stuf does a better job of providing deeper, tighter bass and cleaner midrange performance than Dacron Poly-Fil. . It is available from Parts Express ( Item # 260-317) in 1 lb bags.
I have been using Acousti-Stuf in all my recent speaker building projects and have been very pleased with the results.
Ron
-
Ron,
Thanks. I have already bought the Acusta-Stuff per your earlier suggestion so I will be ready when I get to that stage. I have a fairly good digital kitchen scale that measures that I can use.
Mike
-
I've installed most of the NoRez. I brought the top part around the tweeter out to the front baffle and left the lower portion around the woofer 1-1/4" back from the front baffle. I have to cut out the part covering the port openings and the tube connector openings.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82428)
I have not put any NoRez on the bottom yet. I have to determine the size of the crossover board first. The width of the crossover board can be no more than 4-3/4" due to the NoRez lining the sides. The length has some leeway. There is a total of 9-1/2" between the NoRez on the rear wall and the front baffle. How much of the bottom of the box can the crossover board occupy? Or another way of looking at it would be how many inches behind the front baffle needs to have NoRez before getting to the crossover board?
Mike
-
Mike,
I suggest that you make your crossover board 4-3/4" Wide x 6-1/2"long. The crossovers for N2X speakers that I have previously built have the same inside depth as the X-LS Encores and this crossover board sized worked out just fine. The crossover board should be back against the No-Rez on the rear of the cabinet. You can put a piece of No-Rez in front of the crossover set back 1-1/2" from the back of the front baffle. Also, I suggest that you construct your crossover boards from 1/4" thick MDF or hard temper Masonite. Hope this helps you.
Ron
-
Ron,
Thanks. I have been experimenting with cardboard as a layout substitute board. I had gotten it onto a 4-3/4" x 7" platform but by scooting the resistors all the way to the edge it would fit on a 6-1/2" board. I'm not sure if I have this layout right or properly distributed.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82437)
I have seen three different recommendations for board thickness: 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". The 1/4" hardboard available around here is pretty flimsy stuff. It's fine as a workbench top with solid plywood underneath but not really sure it would be sturdy enough by itself. The thinnest MDF I have found stocked is 1/2". I might be able to get 3/8" MDF by doing a combination of special order and direct pickup at the local distributor. They don't sell directly to the public so I have to go through one of the retailers they supply.
Mike
-
Another option Mike.... cover the entire bottom panel in thick vinyl floor tile. You can then fasten the cross over right through the tiel into the MDF and still put apiece of no rez in the front if you wish. I personally wouldn't even worry about the little piece of no rez, if you make the c/o board 6.5" and add the 1.25" back from the front baffle, it only ends up being a piece of no rez 1.75" wide. In mine I just used the thick vinyl floor tile on the bottom
-jay
-
Thanks Jay.
After looking at the crossover layout a little more it looks like I could rotate the largest cap 90 degrees counterclockwise. This would have all the caps aligned in the same plane and allow me to move it more toward the edge of the board. This would then allow me to move the smaller inductor more towards the center of the larger inductor.
-
Here's how I did mine.
(http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss207/corndog642/x-ls%20upgrades/IMG_2157.jpg)
-
That is compact!
-
The following pictures show a pair of crossovers I built for a pair of N2X speakers:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82439)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82440)
The X-LS Encore crossover uses fewer component parts can be laid out in a similar arrangement as the N2X. The board size is 4-3/4" W x 6-1/2" long. I have found that a scrap piece of laminated wood flooring like Pergo works very well as a crossover board. I agree with Jay that the small piece of No-Rez in front of the crossover really isn't necessary.
Ron
-
How long should the wires be from the board to the Electra tube connectors?
Mike
-
How long should the wires be from the board to the Electra tube connectors?
Mike
No longer than they need to be.
-
How long should the wires be from the board to the Electra tube connectors?
Mike
Just make sure you leave them long enough so that when the cross overs are monted the wires will stick out the holes a couple (2 or 3") inches so you have enough room to work comfortably and attach the tube connector.
Not sure if you noticed, but Danny has a handy sticky on installing the tube connectors if you haven't done it before, might be worth a look .
-jay
-
Yes I saw it. I have been reading both the crossover 101 and the tube connector stickies multiple times. I figured 5" should get me from the back of the board, through the NoRez & the back wall and have 3" to work with.
The crossovers are mounted to the boards and I have twisted all the connections up. Tomorrow I will solder everything and apply the shrink wrap. Then it's back to the cabinets.
Mike
-
The crossovers are completed. Is there any way to test them before installing into the cabinets?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82488)
I also have the front baffles ready to attach including a 1/2" roundover on the back of the woofer cutouts.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82489)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82490)
You will notice the mounting holes in the front baffle. I cut the recess too shallow so the tweeters sat proud of the baffle face.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82491)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82492)
I had a heck of a time sanding them down enough so the tweeters sat flush. Later I was reading an X-LS build thread in the GR section over at HTS and found a tip to quickly and accurately set the recess depth first time every time with no measuring. The trick is to use the flange to be recessed as a spacer. Start by setting the router so the bit is flush with the bottom of the router base. Then raise the depth stop rod out of the way. Now place the flange to be recessed on the depth plate of the router and bring the stop rod down on top of the flange. Tighten the stop rod and you have the depth set perfectly to recess that particular flange. A picture shows this much better so check out post #59 in this build thread:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/gr-research/61533-giant-killer-build-6.html
Mike
-
Hey Mike, looking good :)
You could test the cross over by conecting the woofer leads temprotily to a woofer, the tweeter leads to a tweeter then the inputs to a pair of speaker wires coming from source (amp.rec), Just twist the conections or use alligator clips but be careful not to short anything (obvious I now , but thought I'd say it anyway). I lay the cross over on an upside down mouse pad or something with a ruber back.
-jay
-
Jay,
Good idea thanks. I hooked them up and got sound not smoke so I guess I did it right :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82506)
Mike
-
"I hooked them up and got sound not smoke so I guess I did it right"
...no, you certainly don't want them to lose any of their magic smoke :lol:
-
yup, no smoke = good :)
Glad they work , bet that little sound test has you even more anxious now LOL
-jay
Also, have you decided how you're finishing the cabinets yet Mike ?
-
You better believe it. I was doing a happy dance. The smoke comment goes wayyyy back to my time in the Army Field Artillery Officer Basic Course at Ft. Sill. The Sargent in charge of the communications class commented that when you put a bunch of Lieutenants in a room with radios one of two things happened, maximum communications or maximum smoke. His money was on the smoke.
Now I gotta finish the cabinets. I prototyped a grill frame out of 1/4" hardboard. Got the basic design down. Nothing special at all really just rounded edges but I think it will look good if I can execute the actual grills better than I did the prototype. I need to get the grills done so I can determine where the magnets will go on the baffles before I glue them to the rest of the cabinet.
As for finish I'm going to do a 4 step process (1) apply a pre-stain conditioner so the wood, including the rounded over corners, will take up the stain evenly, (2) apply an oil based stain, (3) multiple coats of shellack, and (4) wax and buff.
I haven't decided on stain color yet. It is down to 4 candidates: red mahogany, Danish teak, pecan, and black cherry. I have used the 7" diameter circle cutouts from the CS's braces and from the LS's woofer holes as test blanks. At this point I have them stained and one round of shellack applied. I'm going to wait until I have at least 3 rounds of shellack applied before I choose. This may seem a little extreme for test pieces but there can be a lot of difference in appearance in a stained piece of wood before and after the finish coats are applied.
Unfortunately I won't get much done for a couple of days. My wife believes weekends are for honey-dos and I have some stone I have to finish mortaring and laying around the edge of a flower bed. I only have about 65' left to go. :(
Mike
-
You better believe it. I was doing a happy dance. The smoke comment goes wayyyy back to my time in the Army Field Artillery Officer Basic Course at Ft. Sill. The Sargent in charge of the communications class commented that when you put a bunch of Lieutenants in a room with radios one of two things happened, maximum communications or maximum smoke. His money was on the smoke.
Now I gotta finish the cabinets. I prototyped a grill frame out of 1/4" hardboard. Got the basic design down. Nothing special at all really just rounded edges but I think it will look good if I can execute the actual grills better than I did the prototype. I need to get the grills done so I can determine where the magnets will go on the baffles before I glue them to the rest of the cabinet.
As for finish I'm going to do a 4 step process (1) apply a pre-stain conditioner so the wood, including the rounded over corners, will take up the stain evenly, (2) apply an oil based stain, (3) multiple coats of shellack, and (4) wax and buff.
I haven't decided on stain color yet. It is down to 4 candidates: red mahogany, Danish teak, pecan, and black cherry. I have used the 7" diameter circle cutouts from the CS's braces and from the LS's woofer holes as test blanks. At this point I have them stained and one round of shellack applied. I'm going to wait until I have at least 3 rounds of shellack applied before I choose. This may seem a little extreme for test pieces but there can be a lot of difference in appearance in a stained piece of wood before and after the finish coats are applied.
Unfortunately I won't get much done for a couple of days. My wife believes weekends are for honey-dos and I have some stone I have to finish mortaring and laying around the edge of a flower bed. I only have about 65' left to go. :(
Mike
Mike, Your crossovers look great! Did you use any components from the original crossovers? Also, is the cabinet plywood Maple? I used Maple Apple ply to make a boombox, and found it difficult to get a stain to look good and ended up only lightly tinting it. Maple is not the easiest wood to stain. If your going to round over the edges I found the fact that plywood has the grain alternating with each layer, I got minor tearout of some plys on the roundovers. Maybe experimenting with different router speeds on scrap pieces would be prudent.
Keep the pictures coming...
Larry
-
Larry,
No I did not use anything from the crossover circuit boards that normally come with the kit. Since I wanted to upgrade everything on the board and do a complete point to point crossover the circuit boards would have been redundant so I didn't get them to begin with, just the parts and schematics like you would get with any of the A/V, N, or OB kits Danny sells.
I'm using Baltic Birch plywood for the cabinets. It takes a roundover very well with no tearout, especially when using a brand new, higher end carbide roundover bit. The bit was pricy but the performance has been worth it. The pieces I am using for color samples have taken the stain well and are looking really nice even with just one round of shellack.
Mike
-
Mike,
Your crossovers look great. Good job! :thumb:
Ron
-
Thanks all. If it wasn't for the sticky tutorials and all the build threads y'all have posted I'd still be scratching my head trying to figure out how all those squiggly lines on that paper turned into a crossover.
Mike
-
Got a little more done.
Here is a sample of the color I intend to use, it is Mahogany. It has one coat of pre-stain, one coat of stain, and 2 rounds of shellack with sanding to 400 grit after coats 1 and 2. The actual finish will have 2 or 3 more rounds of shellack with progressively finer sanding. I like the darker, richer colors and warmer tones. However, I cannot figure out how to keep the flash glare out of the pictures.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82670)
Here are the cabinets glued up and flush trimmed.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82671)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82672)
I realized that since I cut the front baffles oversize all the way around so I could flush trim I could not align the grills before gluing the baffles on without risking them being cockeyed. Therefore I decided to mount the grills afterward and live with plugs over the magnets. How thick of a plug will a 1/4" x 3/8" neodymium magnet work through?
Here is one of the grills. I recessed the back for the woofer.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82673)
Is there enough room around the tweeter? The stock is 1/2" Baltic Birch. How much of a round over should I put on the inside, 1/2" or 3/8"?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82674)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82675)
Thanks,
Mike
-
Mike,
The negative effects that a grill frame has on the response is from a flat inside surface that is as tall as the grill frame is thick. Put a large radius on the inside edge of the frame and you will greatly minimize its effect.
-
You could try taking a phot on a bit more of an angle to reduce some of the flash reflection. You're still going to see it, but might not be as much glare, hard to say.
I'd try to keep the plugs as thin as you can.... are you using the N52 greade magnets , they are stronger and will let you get away with a bit thicker plug . You might want to try some different thickenss's between a couple of the magnets just to see how much the plugs effect the pull
The bigger roundover would probably be better but may be a PITA to cut on the 1/2" grill frame due to the depth of the bit. If I remember correct, I used a 3/8" roundover then used a foam sanding block to try and increase the radius slightly.
They are looking great Mike :thumb:
-jay
-
Thanks Danny.
Jay,
Yes the magnets are N52 grade.
I will probably do the roundovers on my router table. I haven't been able to figure out how to hold something that thin high enough and solid enough to use even my smaller trim router.
Mike
-
Lesson learned..... a 1/2" roundover won't work on a 1/2" piece of stock, there is nothing for the bearing to roll against. The router chewed that grill cover up, it's toast. :duh: Now I have 2 to make instead of one. At least I'd already traced out the 2nd one.
Mike
-
yup, no smoke = good :)
Glad they work , bet that little sound test has you even more anxious now LOL
-jay
Also, have you decided how you're finishing the cabinets yet Mike ?
A little more on the importance of smoke and possible remediation.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/the-engineering-life-around-the-web/4405831/Smoke-re-concentrator-refurbishes-blown-electronic-components (http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blogs/the-engineering-life-around-the-web/4405831/Smoke-re-concentrator-refurbishes-blown-electronic-components)
-
Lesson learned..... a 1/2" roundover won't work on a 1/2" piece of stock, there is nothing for the bearing to roll against. The router chewed that grill cover up, it's toast. :duh: Now I have 2 to make instead of one. At least I'd already traced out the 2nd one.
Mike
On a more serious note, if you had stacked another board with a similar hole for the roller to follow would it have worked? Would it have a desirable shape?
I ask because I will be getting back to my N3 project and will face the same issue. The help and experience here invaluable. Thanks to all.
George
-
If you could get another opening to exactly match it would probably work but since the opening was cut out with a jigsaw and final shape was achieved with a sander getting an exact match would be difficult. I'll try a 3/8" roundover on 1/2" stock and see if that works better.
Mike
-
I used a circle jig to cut out the holes in my grill frames, then you can cut out the extra by dropping them on your table saw blade.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34731)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34733)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=34734)
Your project looks great
Neil
-
Thanks Mike and Niel. I was just wondering about using a jig with my router. I'm still pretty green with the router. But my table saw? Wow I must have misplaced it. :lol: I'll be using my circular saw. Oh yeah, I should pit my boxes together first! :lol: :duh: :lol:
Ya know I'll be watching your build.
-
Lesson learned..... a 1/2" roundover won't work on a 1/2" piece of stock, there is nothing for the bearing to roll against. The router chewed that grill cover up, it's toast. :duh: Now I have 2 to make instead of one. At least I'd already traced out the 2nd one.
Mike
DOH :o
That's why I was saying the depth of the 1/2" bit might be a PITA . Thought if you were trying it yo might have clamped the 2 frames back to back on a table, routed the top one, then flipped it to route the bottom one.
Sorry Mike, I should have explained rather than just saying PITA
George, will have a look at the link
-jay
-
Oh well doubt I'll ever forget that lesson. But it is also a reminder as to why routers can be so dangerous. I was routing out the inside with the stock upside down on a router table. If I had tried to save the piece when the router grabbed it I could have lost fingers instead of just a piece of wood. I can always remake the piece, but not fingers. Luckily I have spent enough years setting up and operating industrial machines that I never attempt to argue with a machine when it grabs the product. I get out of the way, shut the machine down, then go back in and fix whatever got broke. In this case the only thing broke was the grill frame which was $10 worth of wood and a couple hours of my time.
-
Very good points Mike. Sometimes it is easy to get complacent and forget that tools / machinery can be very danerous and accidents can occur very quickly
Glad there were no injuries other than to the piece of wood
-jay
-
Jay,
Your method of cutting out the frame looks like it would work for the CS frame since it is an MTM design.
Do you try to drop the workpiece onto the saw blade or do you clamp the workpiece to the table then raise the blade into the wood like you were making a zero clearance insert? If you drop it onto the blade how do you prevent kickback?
Mike
-
Actually, it was Neil that used the table saw method. I cut out all the holes on my OB7 frames like Neil did, but then cut out the litle pieces left with a jigsaw .
When I did the grills for the X LS Encores , I did them with 2 large holes then cut the pieces out like you did.
When I rounded them over, I just clamped the frame down and used a 2nd piece of 1/2" stock to support the router base.
Be careful how far down the sides you go as don't forget the back of the circles is recessed and there will be no surface for the bearing to run on. You'll have to do the little bit around the cutouts by hand (there isn't a whole lot of material there anyhow after cutting out the recess's)
-jay
-
Oops, sorry Neil.
I was only trying to do the roundover from where the woofer cutout started, up over the top of the tweeter than down the other side to where the woofer cutout began again. I had cut a 1/4" recess for the woofer so that only left a 1/4" piece over the edge of the woofer. That I sanded by hand.
Next time I'll try a 3/8" roundover then sand. If 3/8" looks iffy I may just use a spindle sander.
Mike
-
Jay,
Do you try to drop the workpiece onto the saw blade or do you clamp the workpiece to the table then raise the blade into the wood like you were making a zero clearance insert? If you drop it onto the blade how do you prevent kickback?
Mike
I guess drop was not a good term to use. I gently and slowly laid them down on top of the spinning blade, very slim chance of any kick-back. The OB7 grills are big enough to manually control, it might be a little more dicey with a smaller piece of stock. Clamping it and raising the blade might be a viable, alternate method, but be careful when removing the clamp to finish the cut. Or, shut off the saw, lower the blade, reposition and re-clamp the material. Practice first on some scrap lumber.
Neil
-
I have another crossover question, this time for the X-CS Encore. In the woofer circuit, at what point do you split off the positive and negative leads to pick up the second woofer?
Mike
-
I have another crossover question, this time for the X-CS Encore. In the woofer circuit, at what point do you split off the positive and negative leads to pick up the second woofer?
Mike
You can split the leads into two sets of wires at the end of the network. Or you can come off of the network with one set and daisy chain the woofers.
-
Anybody know a good way to safely secure the small pieces for Barce A to the miter saw to safely cut the angles while using a stop block to set length without getting kickback?
Mike
-
Not sure if it si the same or similar to the LS Encores, but when I did mine, I cut a fairly wide piece to length with the 45's on each end then ripped each brace off of that with a push stick
-jay
-
Jay,
I hadn't thought about doing it that way. Fewer miter cuts but smaller pieces to round the edges on. I rounded the corners on a long blank and then started cutting them to length on the miter saw. I guess it's a trade off either way you go.
I say started because I have had to stop for awhile. While trying to hold those little pieces in position on the miter saw I got my left hand in the way of the blade so now I have to wait until the stitches come out and the hand heals before I can get back to the project. Luckily I felt the blade hit my hand and was able to back off before cutting any nerves, tendons or bones. 7 stitches but it could have been a lot worse.
Mike
-
Mike
Sorry to hear about your hand ..... you are right thugh, it could have been much worse, thankfully it wasn't. Lucky you felt the blade making contact and were able to pull up, many times by that point it is too late
With the X LS Encores, the little diagnol braces are up behid the tweeter and a good portion of them is covered by no res. You could easily just round the edges off quickly with a rasp and run over them with a piece of 220 .
I liked just having to do the 1 miter cut at each end of the piece and then ripping the strips using the notched push stick, seemed easier to me
Hope that hand heals up quick and you are able to get back and at it
-jay
-
Dang Mike,
I hate to hear that about your hand.
-
Bummer about the mishap, power tool injuries are never fun. Not to be morbid, but I learned early on that machines have no regard for me whatsoever, wood, flesh, bone...it's all the same to a saw.
There's a reason you work was kicking back. One possibility is work is not well supported on fence...short piece wants to spin into void between fences. A sacrificial scrap against the fence will counteract what the blade wants to do to some extent. Another possibility is carbide teeth pick up work of the table on the upstroke after cut has been made. Sometimes I release trigger and let saw stop before letting it retract upward. Yet other possibility is a dull blade or misaligned fence.
If you'd like, I'll make these and send them to you while you're on the mend. Just give me dimensions and how many you need and it's done.
Jay,
I hadn't thought about doing it that way. Fewer miter cuts but smaller pieces to round the edges on. I rounded the corners on a long blank and then started cutting them to length on the miter saw. I guess it's a trade off either way you go.
I say started because I have had to stop for awhile. While trying to hold those little pieces in position on the miter saw I got my left hand in the way of the blade so now I have to wait until the stitches come out and the hand heals before I can get back to the project. Luckily I felt the blade hit my hand and was able to back off before cutting any nerves, tendons or bones. 7 stitches but it could have been a lot worse.
Mike
-
Peter,
I know what you mean. What ran through my mind the instant the saw hit my hand was "stupid, stupid, stupid!!! You know better than that"
It is probably a combination of your suggestions. The large gap between the fences leaves the pieces without much support and the piece being cut off with none. The blade is the stock one that came with the inexpensive miter saw 4 years ago so it wasn't that good to start with. In the saw's defense, I bought it for rough framing work and landscape construction. I never intended to use it for cabinetry work.
Thanks for the offer but that's not necessary. For one thing my wife has placed two conditions before I can go back in the shop without major conflict (1) my hand has to heal up and (2) I have to replace the miter saw with a safer one with proper hold-downs and support. Darn, I guess I'll have to get that 12" dual compound slider with all the accessories after all. Then there is the "get back up on the horse that threw you" issue also.
What I am seriously considering getting for smaller part work is a version of the miter saw my father had for finish carpentry back in the mid '70s. Something like this:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83414)
Mike
-
So.... everytime you want some new tool, you need to have an "accident' and the other half will insist that you make the purchase :lol:
-jay
-
Side benefit of being a klutz :icon_lol:
However, pressing your luck is never a good thing. It has a way of running out.
Mike
-
Peter,
The zero clearance auxiliary fence worked great even with my current saw (wife wasn't home so what she doesn't know won't hurt me :green:). I'm still going to replace this saw with a 12" dual compound slider. The one I'm looking at can cut material up to 14" wide without having to turn it over. That would mean I would only need to use my table saw for rip cuts. I could do all the cross cutting with the miter saw. I also will get the non-powered version with a Japanese saw blade for small parts. The manual saw will also be very useful in flute making.
Mike
-
The stitches are out and the hand is about half way healed. This gives me a chance to get caught op on posting pictures. These will be for the x-CS Encore build.
After cutting out all the parts I laid out the positions for the sides, brace B's and brace C's on the bottom. I forgot to set my camera on the "shaky hand" setting.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83842)
Then I drilled dowel holes along the edges of the sides and braces ind inserted dowel points into the holes.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83843)
Then I clamped guide boards along the front an back of the bottom to make sure the edges stayed lined up thn marked the position of the dowels on the bottom.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83844)
Next I glued up the sides, not sure if I used enough clamps :green:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83846)
Then the Brace C's. I used a spacer between the braces to help keep them parallel.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83847)
Then the brace B's. At this point the sides and main braces were all glued to the bottom and dowel points were inserted to mark the top.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83850)
more to come.
Mike
-
Next I lined the top up and marked the dowel hole positions. I used clamps to make the impressions rather than a mallet. I didn't want the top to move even the slightest while transferring the position markings. I had a total of 20 dowels between the six pieces (2 sides and 4 braces.
Next I drilled the holes. I used a guide for my 3/8" hand drill. The top was too big for my drill press (as was the bottom).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83855)
Next I inserted the dowel pins and trimmed them all to 3/8".
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83858)
Then it was time to glue on the top
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83860)
Stay tuned for the next installment,
Mike
-
Here is the CS E set up to flush trim the top and bottom
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83870)
Here is a shot from the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83871)
and the front
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83872)
Now the back has been glued on and I have gone over all the seams with an adhesive caulk
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83873)
I have also roughed out the grill frame. I routed a 7-1/4" diameter rabbit 1/4" deep on the backside of the frame over each woofer then cut out the wood in-between. I had a little difficulty getting a smooth cut with the jig saw around the inside of one of the rabbits. Here is a shot of the backside of the frame
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83874)
and the front side
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83875)
I still have to do the round overs on the inside, radius the ends, then smooth everything out before I'll be ready to set the magnets and determine the location on the front baffle.
Mike
-
Nice Work!
Can hardly wait to see them complete.
-
Mike,
Glad to see your back at it, looking great! :thumb: I am going to borrow some of your ideas :icon_lol:
Larry
-
Larry,
Feel free. That's what these forums are all about. I have borrowed shamelessly from a whole lot of folks. This is the first time I have tried building speakers or any type of cabinet for that matter. Build a house, yes ... build cabinets, no. I'd install the cabinets but we'd either buy them prebuilt or have a cabinet maker build them. I never have been much of a finish carpenter either. That was my brother.
Mike
-
Looking great Mike :thumb:
Also glad to hear your hand is healing up and you are back at it
-jay
-
I've got most of the NoRez in the CS Encore. After squeezing it around the Brace A's in the LS's I tried something a little different. I marked where the back edge of the Brace A's would be then installed the NoRez from the back up to that line. Then I installed the Brace A's. The NoRez is not complete in the following picture. I need to finish the crossover and dry fit it before I install the rest of the NoRez.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83920)
Mike
-
I've finished the crossover for the CS Encore. Now all three crossovers are built. However, I think I was a little wasteful with the solder and am not sure I have enough left to connect the drivers and tube connectors for all three speakers. I have some Cardas quad eutectic solder. Will this be an acceptable substitute for what comes in the kits?
Mike
-
I've finished the crossover for the CS Encore. Now all three crossovers are built. However, I think I was a little wasteful with the solder and am not sure I have enough left to connect the drivers and tube connectors for all three speakers. I have some Cardas quad eutectic solder. Will this be an acceptable substitute for what comes in the kits?
Mike
That will be okay.
-
Thanks Danny
-
Moving right along on the X-CS Encore, here are some pics of the crossover:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84586)
and with the crossover dry fitted and the rest of the NoRez installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84587)
Here are some pics of the grill frame:
Here is the frame with holes drilled for the magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84582)
Here is the frame with dowel points in the holes to mark magnet locations on the front baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84583)
Here is the grill frame with the magnets glued in and after two coats of ebony stain
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84584)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84585)
Here is the front baffle with the magnets installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84588)
and here it is with the grill frame on the baffle
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84589)
More to come,
Mike
-
Here's the grill frames for the X-LS Encores: with magnet holes drilled,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84614)
With dowel points installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84615)
Grill frames with two coats of ebony stain
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84617)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84618)
and here is an X-LS Encore cabinet with the grill frames on
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84619)
Mike
-
I have finished sanding and putting a 1/2" roundover on all the edges of the X-LS Encores and the X-CS Encore. I practiced doing the roundover on the MDF cabinet I built specifically for practicing new cuts. Using a Workmate to clamp the cabinet and a hand held router to cut the roundovers worked flawlessly. However, when I tried cutting the round overs on the Baltic Birch cabinets the bit tore out the veneer.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84623)
I wasn't about to build a new cabinet so I used wood filler to repair the tear out
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84624)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84625)
To prevent additional tear out I tried back routing first. This solved the tear out problem but results in an uneven feed rate. Sometimes the bit skips and runs while other times it hangs up and burns the wood. Routing back over the edge in the proper direction cleans up a lot of this but even with a fair amount of sanding some burn marks remain. Therefore these cabinets are going to have some unintended distress marks on the edges.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84626)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84627)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84628)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84629)
And the X-CS Encore:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84630)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84631)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84632)
I have finished final sanding and am now ready to stain the cabinets.
Mike
-
Looks like youre already done and they came out pretty nice. Hopefully that filler will take the stain you plan to use evenly and not stand out like a sore thumb. Might make sense to do a test board with some gouges filled with the same filler to see how it looks with the stain/finish.
Qucik question, did you do the 1/2" roundover in one pass? Sometimes doing it in two passes (the first one with the bit only half way down and the second pass at full depth) can help prevent splintering.
-
Looking great Mike, nice work :)
Sorry to see you had the tearing issue with the roundover.
Hopefully that filler will take the stain you plan to use evenly and not stand out like a sore thumb. Might make sense to do a test board with some gouges filled with the same filler to see how it looks with the stain/finish.
Exellent point mpauly. Doing a stained test board with some filler will be well worth the effort although, not sure what your options will be if the filler doen;t take up the stain?
-jay
-
It is a sustainable filler but it does stand out like a sore thumb. Luckily it is on the back side of the cabinet.
Yes I did it in a single pass. I thought of multiple passes as an option after I was done. Another possible option would be to start with a 1/4" roundover then progress up to a 3/8" then the 1/2". This would be better with multiple routers then I wouldn't have to keep switching the cabinets out. I currently have two routers, a smaller trim router which would be fine for the 1/4" roundover and a regular size router. But that leaves me short 1 router. I was wanting an excuse to get a new plunge router with the dust collector built into one of the columns :wink:
I have the stain on all three cabinets now. It has not turned out as dark as I wanted. I'm thinking about adding a second coat of stain tomorrow after the first one has completely dried.
Mike
-
Here they are stained. first the CS Encore
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84634)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84635)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84636)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84637)
And here the LS's are in the background
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84638)
Now for the LS Encores, yes the repair shows but at least it is on the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84639)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84640)
However the fronts and sides look better
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84641)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84642)
I'm caught up for now
Mike
-
hey Mike
Not sure this will help at all, you may already be doing this but...
One thng I started doing a way way back in high school on the advice of a shop teacher was to apply stain using 400 grit or finer wet/dry paper and really "sanding" the stain into the wood. Sand it in really well before wiping off any excess, the more you rub it in, the darker it gets and the smoother it becomes. After wiping off the excess, really rub it down with a clean cotton "rag". You end up with a beautiful finish and if you apply mulitple coats, you won't even need a top coat unless you are after a super high gloss finish.
I built some ash tables and did 3 coats like tuis almost 30 years ago and they are still looking very nice
It is time consuming but in my opinion, provides a great look and feel if you take your time.
If you haven't tried this, it may be worth giving it a shot on a samll piece of scrap to see what you think
-jay
-
Jay,
I never heard of that method, thanks. I think part of my problem is that I sanded everything too fine before applying the stain. I sanded to 180 grit but both the pre-stain and stain said not to sand hardwoods finer than 150. Plus I used a pre-stain so the plywood would take up the stain more evenly.
I have some scraps of the Baltic Birch and will try your sandpaper method on them. Do you think that will work on these speakers at this point? If not I may just use it on the X-MTM Encores I haven't built yet to finish out a five channel HT system.
I'm not after a high gloss finish. I'm after a deep, rich, mellow finish. To this end I will be using multiple coats of amber shellack.
Mike
-
I can't say if using the wet/dry paper methoud will help at this point but I would say it is worth the attempt as it will not hurt . If you apply 2 or three coats to raw hardwood ( I DID sand very smooth before applying and did not use any pre-stain) and then "buff " with ta soft cotton rag after, you will probably find you don't even need a top coat, it comes ouot very rich and you can actually get a pretty glossy finish depnding on how much you "buff"..
I'll attach a pic of the tables I did, remeber though, these are close to 30 years old now and haven't been rubbed/buffed in many years
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84647)
When you are applying , really sand that stain in , till it starts to become noticably thicker before wiping off the excess. I think you might be surprised by the results
I still suggest trying it on a piece of scrap before proceeding just to make sure you like the results
LMK how it goes
-jay
-
Questions on the port tube. I'm using the multi-piece flared port tubes like the ones used on the N-1X.
Do you glue the pieces together and if so what type of glue? Would the multipurpose cement you get in the plumbing department for abs/pvc/cpvc (red label)work?
How do you secure the tubes in the cabinets, press fit or glued in. If glued, what type of glue works best for this?
Mike
-
Jay,
With already having used the pre-stain plus a coat of stain already dried on the sanding method didn't produce any different results than just wiping on a second coat of stain. I think your method of staining raw wood (no pre-stain) that has not been sanded overly smooth would work work best.
Mike
-
man, your cabinets look great Mike, I really like them . don't know what happened the other day but somehow I meesed all the pictures you posted of the stained cabinets... saw your posts but somehow didnt see the pics , wierd
Anyway, if you want a darker finish , maybe go to a darker stain on your next cabinets. I think the color you have looks pretty dam good though :thumb:
One thing worth noting about using the wet/dry sanding method of staining is we were actually told to pre sand very smooth . The sanding process with the stain is , as I'm sure you can imagine, quite messy , so have lots of clean rags around if you give it a try
Can't wait to see your speakers with the drivers/grills
-jay
-
Jay,
Thanks. I've already given it a try and it is messy. Trying to hold on to the sandpaper when it is covered in stain is interesting :roll:. It seems like you have to do a small section at a time otherwise the stain thickens up too much to wipe off well.
The stain is red mahogany but initially looked more red than I cared for. I put a second coat of stain on everything and the cabinets darkened up more to my liking. I now have the first layer of amber shellack on them and they are beginning to look really nice. My wife saw the CS with the first layer of shellack and really liked them. She also liker the rounded over corners, she wasn't aware I was going to do that.
I plan on three layers of shellack sanding to 400 grit between layers 1 and 2 and 800 grit between layers 2 and 3. I'm not sure what to use after the 3rd layer before buffing it out.
Any recommendations on what to use for the final buffing, both material and method? I have an el-cheapo Coleman random orbit buffer with a synthetic sheep skin cover for polishing cars (though I've never used it on a car, it was one of my wife's ideas that I have managed to sidestep so far :D)
Mike
-
Jay,
I hope to be able to finish the speakers next weekend. The grills may take a little longer though. I'm going to have to get a new stapler. The electric one I have fires multiple staples at a time and does not seat them very well. I'm thinking a small pneumatic stapler designed for installing crown molding would work a lot better but I may have to order one which will take a week or so.
Any other ideas on a stapler that works well for speaker grills made out of 1/2" stock?
Mike
-
Questions on the port tube. I'm using the multi-piece flared port tubes like the ones used on the N-1X.
Do you glue the pieces together and if so what type of glue? Would the multipurpose cement you get in the plumbing department for abs/pvc/cpvc (red label)work?
How do you secure the tubes in the cabinets, press fit or glued in. If glued, what type of glue works best for this?
Mike
Glue in the outside flare to the cabinet first. Let it dry... Silicon works well.
You can glue all of the port tubes together with PVC plastic cement. It dries quickly (in seconds). So when you go to put it on put it all the way on quickly.
You can glue the rest of the pieces on in any order.
-
What's the best way to attach the wire to the driver tabs for soldering? On the crossovers I physically twisted the wires together before soldering but that is not possible on the tabs.
Thanks,
Mike
-
I had the exact same question when building av 1 mini monitors for my parents. Strip the ofc, put the heat shrink on the wire so it can be shrunk after soldering, lay the wire flat on the tab and make as much connection as possible, solder and then apply heat shrink.
Ben
-
Ben,
Thanks. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to try and thread it through those little holes or not.
Mike
-
Ben,
Thanks. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to try and thread it through those little holes or not.
Mike
No, don't do that.
Do exactly like rockdrummer said and I will add to that to tin the wire with solder first and tin the terminal with solder first. Then put the two together. Again try to get the wire to lay flat on the terminal and run the length of it. Solder with high heat fast and then get off of it fast.
-
Oh yeah, I forgot that part. I gotta brush up on the art of soldering. I will be doing it again soon. Been a while. Thanks for clarifying, Danny.
Ben
-
:hyper: They're done YEAH!!!! :hyper:
They sound GREAT!!! They have not had any time to burn in yet but in the main living room the X-LS Encores with the upgrades I installed kick the Klipsch RF-81 II (Reference Series II bookshelf speakers with 8" woofers) all over the field. The only adjustment I made was to change the crossover point to the sub (Rythmik F12) from 40Hz for the Klipsch to 80Hz for the X-LS Encore. Even more amazing is that I had not rerun the calibration software.
About the time I finished the X-CS Encore my wife decided she wanted to watch TV so I hooked the Klipsch's back up and moved the Encores upstairs. The upstairs room is only about 1/4 the size of the downstairs room plus upstairs the speakers are only a few inches from the wall instead of the 3 feet they are downstairs. This resulted in the LS's having a much larger bass response than in the living room and much more than I had been getting from the PSB Image B6's that had been upstairs. The CS Encore also sounds really good but I was only able to listen to it in enhanced stereo mode for less than 5 minutes when the wife said she was going to bed so turn it down. Oh well, there's always tomorrow.
The upgrades for all three speakers included completely building out the crossovers with Erse XQ inductors, SoniCaps, SoniCap bypass caps and Mills resistors, all point-to-point wired with the high purity OFC wire plus NoRez and AcustaStuff. Additionally, the port tubes for the LS's were upgraded to the flared port tubes used in the N1X kit.
I'll get the rest of the pictures up by this weekend.
Thanks everybody for all your help!!! :thumb:
Mike
-
Congrats Mike :thumb:
Just wait till you get some hours adding up on those , you'll be even more impressed
-jay
-
Jay,
Working on that part right now. I have set up a playlist of various types of music and am letting it play all day while I'm out. This is the second day today. I started yesterday with the volume low, -30dB. Today the volume is a little louder, -25dB. Tomorrow I will increase to -20dB. By Saturday I should have about 30 hours on them.
Mike
-
Here are some shots of the LS Encores after the shellack has been applied. First from the side
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84996)
Here's one from the rear showing the flared ports. You can see the tear out still shows, on well, it's on the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84997)
And here's one from the front
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84998)
Here are the finished grills. First from the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=84999)
Here's a closer shot of one from the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85000)
And here's the front view
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85001)
More on the way,
Mike
-
Here are some shots of the X-CS Encore after the shellack has been applied. First from the back,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85002)
Then from the front
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85003)
Here is the finished grill for the X-CS Encore from the back
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85004)
and the front
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85005)
Here is a shot of all three speakers from the front after the shellack
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85006)
Here is the CS with the crossover installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85007)
Here are the LS's with the crossovers installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85008)
Here is a shot of all three speakers with the crossovers installed
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85009)
Here they are set up and playing in the upstairs room. First without the grills
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85010)
Then with the grills on
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85012)
They've been burning in for parts of two days now and have about 20 hours playing time on them. Sounding better but still have a ways to go. They do require more power than the PSB's they replaced (3dB less sensitive) but are well within the ability of the NAD AVR. So far I have not run them any louder than -20 on the volume scale (it goes up to +15). Right now they are playing at -20dB and I can hear them just fine downstairs in my office.
Mike
-
The shellack really brings out the stain. Looks good :thumb: