Mapletree Audio Line 2A-SE vs. SAS 10A Preamp

ajzepp · « **on:** 19 May 2010, 05:25 am »

It's not often that I have this sort of opportunity to compare two very highly regarded pieces of gear in their price range, cause I just don't change gear all that often. Extenuating circumstances forced me to sell my beloved Line 2A-SE several months ago, and it broke my heart. I had planned to just have Dr.P build me another once I was back on my feet since I was VERY happy with it, but since Steve at SAS Audio has a 30-day in-home trial on his gear, I figured this was a great time to audition what was my 2nd choice back a couple years ago. Note, it was only my second choice based on research...I research the HECK out of stuff before I make a decision when it's not something I can go and listen to at a local B&M, and at the time the Mapletree just seemed like the better choice.

Anyway, I know all the arguments about audible memory being short and all that, but this isn't really meant to be scientific. The Mapletree could take a simple source like an iPod and make it SING. It took control of the low end and made both my DeVore Super 8s and my current Maggie 3.6s thump big time. It mated very well with my Butler hybrid amps and provided me more enjoyment out of 2-channel music than I'd ever had before.

That being said, just today I took delivery on an SAS 10A with HT bypass from Steve. He's been a great guy to deal with and I was really excited to see it arrive. I don't have any idea if Steve recommends a break-in period or not, but I typically run my gear for 48 hrs before any critical listening. My main source is a squeezebox duet, but since I had to sell my TADAC, too, right now it's really not the best source. So after I give it a break in over the next couple of days, I'll fire up my iPod just like I did when I first had my Mapletree. I'm sure I'll go back and forth between the two sources, but I know that when I used the dig coax output into the TADAC as my source, it was significantly better than the analog outs on the duet receiver.

So far, I'll comment on the build quality and the buying process. As I already said, Steve is a gentleman and a very strong advocate for his product. He was helpful in pointing out some of the reviews on the 10A and he gave me some tips on how to integrate it into my current system. He shipped it promptly upon receiving payment, it was expertly double boxed, and it arrived in pristine condition. As for the build quality, it's very good. Being the owner of a pair of Butler amps and also a McCormack MAP preamp, I've really become a fan of top notch build quality. The 10A isn't quite the tank that the Butlers or the McCormack are, but it doesn't have to be. So I definitely give it a thumbs up in this department.

Anyway, I'll chime in as I get to know this preamp a little better. Being that it's nearly twice the cost of the Mapletree, and still in the upper end of the "value" category, I do have certain expectations for it. I have been in this hobby long enough to know that there are very few "night and day" differences, but I do expect an improvement to be observable. We'll see!

Larkston Zinaspic · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 May 2010, 11:55 am »

Looking forward to reading more about the 2A-SE vs. 10A comparison. My experience with the 10A has been very positive...hope you enjoy yours.

ajzepp · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 May 2010, 02:58 am »

Thanks, Larkston! Nice to see a satisfied 10A owner chime in

Well, here is my 24 hr update....

I just hit the 24 mark on the preamp, and I just spent the last twenty mins sampling some of my reference cuts just as a spot check on the presentation. I still haven't really given it much volume, and I'm still using the analog outs on my duet receiver as the source. I'll probably plug in the iPod later tonight, but for right now I'm using this source since it's the one I'm most familiar with.

The one thing that's already evident is that the 10A is easily the Mapletree's equal in terms of the low end. The bass is very crisp and tight, and the lower tones coming out of the Maggies are very nice. That was one of the things I loved most about the Mapletree; that little preamp could really bring the low end to life. The other thing I've noticed is that the vocals seem to be a bit more integrated into the entire presentation, whereas they were a bit more front and center with the Mapletree. This isn't really a plus or minus, just a difference....depends on what you like, I guess. It'll be interesting to see if that remains constant once I fire up the iPod and once I get a better source in here.

By the way, if you guys have any DAC suggestions, please let me know. I'm likely going to go back to Paul at Tube Audio Design and pick up his most recent version, but I want to also check what else has hit the market since I last looked around.

At the 48 hr mark, I'll start really trying to listen critically and get a feel for what this preamp is made of. So far the Maggies seem to approve, so hopefully the 10A will meet or exceed expectations when all is said and done. It's so nice having a tube preamp back in the system, though!

ajzepp · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 May 2010, 05:04 am »

I remembered that I downloaded a couple of the Idol performances from last night so I thought it might be fun to give those a listen before heading off to bed. I had the gain on the preamp up a bit while I was using my iPod an hour or so ago, and I forgot to turn it back down when I switched sources (back to the duet receiver). Something else I can definitively say about the 10A is that imaging is VERY good. With my TADAC + Mapletree combo, I had nice separation among instruments, but I'm already hearing an improvement in that area which is a bit of a surprise. Percussive instruments remain very crisp and I'm really digging that. At this point I'm probably going to have to give the Mapletree a slight edge with vocal reproduction, BUT, a lot of that may be attributable to the DAC I was using. The 10A is making the duet receiver sound a bit better than it did with the Mapletree, so I'm really eager to get a DAC in here again to see if that makes a difference with the vocals. They just sound a tad bit recessed still, so I want to try and remedy that with a better source.

So far, though, I'm pretty optimistic that this will be a nice upgrade over the mapletree once I improve the source. I always get a very nice soundstage with the Maggies, but it's not always been as focused as I'd like. With such solid imaging from the 10A, I can already hear that the soundstage is depth is improved over what the mapletree was doing. I didn't really get much depth until I added the TADAC, so the fact that I have more depth with just the duet source is very encouraging and impressive.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 May 2010, 05:20 am »

Back in 2006 I took advantage of Steve Sammet's open offer to AC members to audition his 10A preamp. It's a good one...and at a good price.

If you do a search, you'll see other comments as well.

Have fun....both preamps are good buys.

ajzepp · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 May 2010, 07:00 am »

Thanks, Chris

All the great comments by yourself and others from the archives are what led me to this preamp, actually. I would have never heard of either piece if not for this forum, so I'm pretty excited to have the SAS in house. So far it's a keeper!

Eric · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 May 2010, 03:28 pm »

I owned the 10A and upgraded to the 11A. They are both wonderful and Steve is a great guy

walkern · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 May 2010, 04:19 pm »

Very curious to hear your continuing comparisons between the SAS and the Maple Tree preamps. I had a Maple Tree for a while, and swapped it out for a TVC... but kind of miss the character offered up by the tubes.

Also, on the DAC front, since you are open to various options, there is quite a thread running in the Industry Ads area about the new Eastern Electric DAC. It is priced almost exactly the same as Paul's TADAC, and uses a really exciting new chip set (the Sabre DACs) and offers tube or SS output, I thought you might wanna check it out. More info available at www.morningstaraudio.com. I don't own one, or have any association with the EE folks, but I've been looking to get a new DAC and my research has been pointing me in that direction.

Neil

ajzepp · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 May 2010, 02:25 am »

Neil: Thanks for the tip on the DAC...I'll definitely check it out. As for the preamp, the mapletree was a true revelation for me, and having to go back to a SS preamp (my McCormack) really proved to me that I don't want to be w/out tubes again. I just got home from work; been looking forward to having some time alone with my 10A all day....going to give it a more serious listen in about a half hour.

Eric: Thanks for chiming in...seems like Steve has a lot of very satisfied customers!

ajzepp · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 May 2010, 08:45 am »

Well, I just got done listening for quite a while, and I'm very happy with how things sound even with just the duet receiver as my source. The absolute most impressive aspect of the sound is the separation I'm hearing among instruments and vocals. This is the one area where it's a very clear step up from the Mapletree. One of my favorite CDs is the broadway version of The Lion King. It's a well recorded CD to begin with, but the 10A gets the experience a little closer to what it was like live, particularly on some of the busier tracks (e.g. The Stampede). Really nice low end, as I said earlier, but the Mapletree was no slouch in this area.

On the intro to 'Daughters' from my John Mayer Trio disc, the crispness of the percussion proved itself yet again. I can't help but want to crank it up and take in every nuance of the sound! Vocals are very natural sounding, but it's still perplexing me why they aren't front and center as they were with the Mapletree. I guess maybe it was the DAC, I dunno.

The soundstage is improved with the 10A, too, mainly because I'm getting some depth to the image as opposed to just width. Anyway, it's almost 5am...I'm beat.

bunky · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 May 2010, 09:20 am »

I used to own the 10A which i unfortunately lost in a fire and it is still one of my favorite preamplifiers.Steve is a very smart designer and i suspect that he must have a golden ear as well.i actually liked the dual volume controls on the 10A.i had the 11A during a tour @ Audionervosa and i consider it a Reference Quality preamplifier

face · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 May 2010, 07:40 pm »

Your old 2A is still getting plenty of love here.

ajzepp · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 May 2010, 02:07 am »

Bunky: I remember when you were going through that, cause I was very impressed how people came together to help you get a system going again. That said a lot about the community here and the quality of the people, and I've always kept that event in mind ever since. Are you and your family doing okay now?? I'm scared to death of having a fire in my home...I can't imagine how awful that must have been for you guys!

Mike: I'm glad to hear that lol...I loved that little Mapletree! I know you've made some upgrades since I owned it, so I"m sure it's even better than when it was here

BTW, what kind of DAC are you using?

face · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 May 2010, 02:14 am »

AJ, if you pick up another, I'll guide you through the mods.

I'm currently using a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1, but have a DAC-2 on order.

ajzepp · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 May 2010, 02:31 am »

Very cool, that's one of the DACs on my short list. I"m assuming you've enjoyed the DAC-1 quite a bit if you're upgrading to the 2? I've been taking a look at the current Van Alstine DAC, as well, and I remember the Monarchy DAC also being one I was very interested before. Any experience with those?

face · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 May 2010, 02:59 am »

The DAC-1 is on loan from my dealer until my DAC-2 arrives(hopefully next week).

Sorry, I haven't heard either of those DAC's that you mentioned.

If you're looking for a pre and DAC, check out the Peachtree Nova. It has the Sabre DAC, a tube preamp, and HT bypass. The integrated amp is a little anemic, but the rest of the unit sounds very good, I use one in my other rig.

Eric · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 May 2010, 03:17 am »

The 10A also responds well to NOS tubes. Look for some Seimen's 7308 tubes

ajzepp · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 May 2010, 06:53 am »

Quote from: face on 22 May 2010, 02:59 am

The DAC-1 is on loan from my dealer until my DAC-2 arrives(hopefully next week).

Sorry, I haven't heard either of those DAC's that you mentioned.

If you're looking for a pre and DAC, check out the Peachtree Nova. It has the Sabre DAC, a tube preamp, and HT bypass. The integrated amp is a little anemic, but the rest of the unit sounds very good, I use one in my other rig.

I'm probably going to end up keeping the 10A, so will just need a DAC....lemme know how you end up liking the wyred 4 sound piece!

ajzepp · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 May 2010, 06:54 am »

Quote from: Eric on 22 May 2010, 03:17 am

The 10A also responds well to NOS tubes. Look for some Seimen's 7308 tubes

Very cool, thanks! I'll be looking to tube roll as soon as I get more familiar with the 10A....looking forward to it

ajzepp · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 May 2010, 08:57 pm »

This preamp really seems to like CDs that were recorded live. My Guns'n'Roses Live CD is one of my fvorites, but I never really considered it that great of a recording. It seems to have new life on the 10A. I really can't get over how distinct everything is...

I'm pretty sure I've settled on a new DAC, too....how does that saying go? "Second verse, same as the first"? Paul's current DAC over at Tube Audio Design looks like a perfect choice. I loved my TADAC, and his new one is an even better fit since I won't be paying for functions I don't need - i.e. the preamp/volume.

I had my system really sounding good until I had to dismantle it...very optimistic that I'm almost done putting it back together in a way that was also an upgrade