Your dream wheels...

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VOLKS

Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #120 on: 28 Aug 2011, 09:33 pm »
 :thumb:




FullRangeMan

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #121 on: 28 Aug 2011, 10:09 pm »


FullRangeMan

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #122 on: 28 Aug 2011, 10:12 pm »


mort

Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #123 on: 31 Aug 2011, 04:15 pm »
Nope, they won't come, they'll be either completely flat & dead like a salted fish on their half way here.  Or the driver will simply refuse to come, because it's out of range, and fast charging ruins those expensive batteries, everybody knows that.  :icon_lol:

Electric cars can become a very nice short range transport if the owner work in the local post office or supermarket, in a very small town, very close to his home, and all of his friends live very near. . .Or, i think if they change all city buses and taxies to electric, it'll also work out nicely . But as a convenient personal/family transport, it simply wouldn't suffice, it's too complicated to use, and will cost more in a long term. 

And i wonder why car manufacturers love to put an 'i' before the names of their electric and electro-petro mutant cars. Maybe it's a sign of caution, a warning, 'i' = incompetent.  Warning, you are buying the incompetent ill fated cousin of the car family, for a higher price.

simply not based in facts. If electric propulsion systems are just a flash in the pan than
 why is every major automobile manufacturer  working on at least one  electric vehicle as we speak?
    Of course subsities are required for any new system that requires massive inferstructure. This is no different than any other country wide program: Oil/gas, farm/food, healthcare, current electrical grid and transit. Mabey un-like the gas conglomerates when electric cars stand on there own four wheels we can remove the tax payers helpful push.
    Inconveinient is going to a gas station when ever you need to fill up. with electric cars that is not nessesary we wont drive untill empty we will always start full and recharge every nite, 78% of the U.S driving public travels less than 40 miles a day 90% less than 80 miles and 80% of families are 2 car owners. need to go more than 100 miles, take the other car it is simple math!
     The Tesla s loaded model has a range of just over 300 miles, and like VCR's, CD players, cell phones, flat screen tv's and all other technologies the prices will fall and ranges will increase as people adopt these new Better, quicker, cleaner automobiles.
      Litheum Ion battery technologies are on the brisk of explosion with the perfection of the LI-air battery, energy density levels are expected to be 4 to 8 times that of dissel fuel!
       In the Pacific Northwest, 80% of our energy comes from clean energy sources. Even in States where the predominance of power is generated by dirty coal, electric cars are cleaner because they are more efficiant at converting energy (85% compared to 30%)than their ICE equivilants. Many families with Nissan Leafs and Chevy Volts already power there cars using garage solar systems (a 5000 watt aray cost between $8000 and $10000 and are warrentied for 20 years. The average american will own 4 cars in that period.) with the price of gas skyrocketing over the past 10 years it is easy to see the price levels rapidly approching an equlibrium.
      This web site is for a lot of us is about technologies and products that lead us to better listining, it suprisses me to see that the quest for technologie in one feild is not mannifested in another. The fact is that the internal combustion engine is an archaen obsolete dirty mechanism that we have tweeked the last bit of life out of, They have a poor tork curve, between 100 and 300 moving parts, require massive amounts of maintinance, guzzel gas and require antifreese,oil and a transmision not to mention the small cost of invading the contries that sit on top of our oil!
    You threw out your 8 track player a long time ago, now break your addiction to oil, test drive a Leaf, Volt ,Tesla or the 2012 Ford Focas electric and see if it will fit your life style. If you are like 90% of the country it probably will.
     Most of the anti electric car sentimate comes from a lack of knowledge, and a missunderstanding of the facts. If you are interested in informing yourself with the truth www.pluginamerica.org has a wounderfull pros and cons section of their web site along with  a list of all current and soon to be available electric cars and all the information you could ever desire.
    My dream car is the Future Tesla suv or mabey the 2012 Toyota Rav 4-E, you say they are too expesive but I argue they are lot cheeper than most of the dream cars on this list and with a carport top solar charging system a lot cleaner too.


James Tanner

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #124 on: 31 Aug 2011, 04:22 pm »
Great post mort  :thumb:

doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #125 on: 31 Aug 2011, 04:48 pm »
mortie, i have done a lot of research on this.  as i said before, i know electric cars are coming - no doubt about it.  but, as i also said - it won't be any panacea, as far as health, costs, & enwironment are concerned.  unless and until most electrical power is generated via wind, solar, geothermal, etc., it's gonna be wery enwironmentally unfriendly when everyone plugs in for their car's fuel.  when that happens, (ie - no coal/nuclear/gas needed to generate electricity), then electric cars won't be such an enwironmental burden cuz then the only issues will be the added enwironmental costs of mfr and recycling...

doug s.

James Tanner

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #126 on: 31 Aug 2011, 04:53 pm »
By the way, I am working on some solar powered speakers (good news and bad) - Bad news... they have to be listened to outside.  Good news - no standing waves :lol:

doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #127 on: 31 Aug 2011, 05:10 pm »
james, if you want really glowing rewiews, cobble up some nuclear powered gear.   8)

doug s.

Danny Richie

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #128 on: 31 Aug 2011, 05:28 pm »
Mort is correct.

A real key is that many electric car owners will create enough power at home (with wind and solar) to keep their cars charged and ready.

Even if they are all powered from coal burning power plants, it still puts less in the air overall than each car burning fossil fuel. And even if it was a wash (meaning each form of travel put the same junk in the air) then imagine this:

I have done some flying in private planes with friends. And I have flown by or over major cities like Oklahoma City and Dallas Fort Worth. From the air you can easily see a thick haze of smog looming over them that is not so easy to see from the ground. Guess where it all comes from? Yep, pretty much all of it is from cars.

So just imagine if you moved all of that smog out of the city where everyone lives and took it 50 miles out of town where a coal burning power plant is cranking out the electricity. Wouldn't that be nice?

And that is still assuming that it is a wash, which it is not. Throw in electricity being produced from other sources (clean sources) and you can really get Green.

Not to mention that even a 10% drop in demand for oil would make a significant difference in the price of fuel.

I am a car guy and all for owning a gas guzzling super car. Heck, I started drag racing while I was still a teen. But owning a Tesla roadster would be pretty cool too.

doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #129 on: 31 Aug 2011, 09:25 pm »
danny, you need to do more research.  building electric cars, batteries, and their disposal is a huge enwironmental issue.  it takes far more energy, and pollutes far more yust to build an electric car.  while there is certainly a difference regarding where you are polluting, in the end, the planet is getting polluted the same, whether it's from a lot of cars in the city, or a few power plants and mfg plants outside the city.

when green energy prevails, and the traditional nuclear/coal/gas energy plants are shut down, then, and only then will electric cars be significantly greener than internal combustion cars.  but, it's a moot point; folks want cars, and when gas runs out, which is already happening, electric cars will replace i/c engined cars, regardless of whether they're green.  the price of gasoline is only going to increase, making electric cars more and more economically viable.  but, today, i have a few dream cars, and electric cars ain't on the list.  not even the tesla, cool as it may be...

ymmv,

doug s.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #130 on: 31 Aug 2011, 09:31 pm »



doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #131 on: 31 Aug 2011, 09:43 pm »


i will be riding my wintage duc home while you're watching the show.   :green:


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Bob in St. Louis

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #132 on: 31 Aug 2011, 09:54 pm »
Yea... Thanks for the show Doug. Keep it up.

Danny Richie

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #133 on: 31 Aug 2011, 10:06 pm »
Quote
danny, you need to do more research.  building electric cars, batteries, and their disposal is a huge enwironmental issue.

I have done a lot more than you think. Even my audio system is almost off the grid.  :D  I have not looked that hard into disposal issues though. I admit that.

However, have a look at everything that goes into servicing a gas burning vehicle over many years of operation and the parts that it goes through from clutches, plugs, filters, fluids, and everything else and you wind up using a ton more resources than you ever will with an electric.

I am all for being responsible for what the good Lord gives us, but I am not one of those, oh, lets save the planet fanatics. Let's please don't let this cool thread go there....

If the panels on my roof, or the wind generator in my yard can keep my car (or cars) charged up and ready to drive, and I don't have to spend any more money on gasoline unless I am taking a road trip, then that is pretty cool too.

Quote
...when green energy prevails, and the traditional nuclear/coal/gas energy plants are shut down,

I don't think we are ever going to see that in our lifetimes. Natural gas, nuclear, and even coal is going to be around for a long time. Not forever, but for a long time.

Price of oil as much as anything else will determine how fast we switch over.

I have been thinking a lot about, (looking and even test driving) upgrading my Vette to a newer model. I am just a Vette kind of guy and always will be, but a Tesla Roadster would still be super cool.

doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #134 on: 1 Sep 2011, 01:35 am »
danny, i think it's way cool that you are so into alternative energy sources such as solar panels and wind generation.  if more folks were doing that, then yes, it would go a long way towards making electric wehicles a better proposition enwironmentally.  but, i think that the amount of folks doing that would make audiophiles seem as common as pennies.   :lol:  and, i agree 100% about the fact that coal/nuclear/gas fired power plants are going to be with us for a long time - a major reason that electric rides aren't an enwironmental panacea.

and, while i know there are a lot of materials that go into keeping an internal combustion engine running, the fact is that most are crushed long before it equals the enwironmental costs in simply building an electric ride.  (which is one reason they are so much more expensive than similarly equipped i/c rides.)

here's another way of looking at it.  while i have not done the research to werify the actual figures, if the world simply stopped making all passenger wehicles for ten years, the energy savings would be immense, even tho it would mean that fuel efficiency is locked in at today's efficiencies.  and, present-day electrric wehicle mfr'ing is ~40% more resource-intensive than what it takes for i/c powered wehicles.

i, too, while caring about the enwironment, am also not so fanatical a tree hugger.  which is why i understand your desire for something like a corwette.  while corwettes have never floated my boat, i understand how they do, for many - amazing performance for the price.   :thumb:  me, i am toying w/the idea of letting go my wintage '72 pantera, in favor of something a bit more modern - and more fuel efficient as well - i suspect a lotus elise/exige may be in my future...   8)

and, ~2.5 years ago, i retired my hotted up alfa gtv6 3.0 as a daily ride in favor of a more efficient gen-1 scion xb.  it certainly loses out in acceleration, but, amazingly enough its chassis dynamics doesn't give up a thing.  but, i confess it was done more for practicality than enwironmental concerns - it is simply too difficult to source parts for it to use as a daily driver anymore.  the pantera would actually be easier to keep on the road for the typical ~20k miles per year i put on a car.  if i could afford the gas, that is.   :lol:

doug s.

doug s.

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #135 on: 1 Sep 2011, 01:38 am »
Yea... Thanks for the show Doug. Keep it up.

ok, bob - here's what got me to work and back yesterday, and it will do the same tomorrow:
 :green:


doug s.

mort

Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #136 on: 1 Sep 2011, 01:45 am »
    Construction waste and cost are currently at a higer level only because these factors are spread out over conciderably smaller production runs. As more people purchase these DREAM Vehicles those impediments will rival those of ICE cars and over the life of the BEV with its greatly reduced operating and maintanace cost, these cleaner asperations will no doubt trump those of their predessesors.
      As for disposal Litheum is far to expensive to throw out. Recycling a Li battery will return a signifigant value as a core. In fact testing has shown that as the battery ages at around 120 to 150 thousand miles the capacity will be reduced to around 70% . While not pheasable as a propulsion battery several start ups are angeling for the battery second life industry. Several uses are possible i.e a bank of two depleated  Leaf batteries is sufficiant for a temporary home power source.  Even with a 30% reduction in power these power packs are capable running  an avarage american home (in the event of a black out or storm interuption) for 24 hours or a European home for 48 hours. GM sugests that its Volt battery banks "second life repourposing" will provide 20 years of additional service in different applications.
     Additionaly several of the auto manufactures( including Hondas home Power Package and a similar program by Nissan) have invested in these technologies and have plans for home-auto charging stations in which the energy collected durring the day by a solar array is stored in two used automotive Li banks so that they can recharge the single battery in the vehicle at night.

    If the Tesla Roadster dosent quite make your list check out the convertable Fisker Karma Sweeeet.

I still think a bike or walking is the only way to be green but thats no fun and not very dreamy

mort

Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #137 on: 1 Sep 2011, 02:01 am »


While still a hybrid she goes 50 miles on a charge, well within the 40 mile average us commute.

Danny Richie

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #138 on: 1 Sep 2011, 02:23 am »
Quote
wintage '72 pantera
Very cool!

Quote
in favor of something a bit more modern - and more fuel efficient as well - i suspect a lotus elise/exige may be in my future... 
Also very cool.

New cars have come a long way. When I was a kid my daily driver was a Camaro with a 427 big block with a 4000 rpm stall converter and a 4.10 rear end gear. While it did launch hard and blister the 1/4 mile, it was not capable of taking anywhere very far. Good thing gas was less than $1 a gallon back then. I even used to mix in some AV gas (we could buy it at the air port) that was 110 octane for $1.75 a gallon.

In contrast my Dad's Vette (I guess we are a Vette family) laid down 495 horsepower to the rear wheels on the dyno and still gets 29 miles to the gallon on the highway. It is also very comfortable to drive and can be taken anywhere.

Danny Richie

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Re: Your dream wheels...
« Reply #139 on: 1 Sep 2011, 02:25 am »

While still a hybrid she goes 50 miles on a charge, well within the 40 mile average us commute.

That is just gorgeous!