AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: JLM on 23 Jun 2019, 11:16 am
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Looking at quality pieces that provide a simple stereo (plus subs) path, that include storage (ideally 2 TB), Roon or MQA not considerations. Have glanced at Auralic Altair, NAD C658, Teac NT 505, miniDSP SHD, and of course Sony HAP-Z1ES which was popular around these parts. Any impressions, owner thoughts? Other options? Haven't read much about the Auralic. The NAD unfortunately reportedly has flaws (introduced without full version of Dirac Live, very limited subwoofer management, sound quality especially with XLR output is questionable). The Teac reportedly reportedly sounds great but is digital only and no storage. miniDSP SHD hasn't measured well and lacks storage/DSD. Sony lacks headphone jack and very limited inputs/outputs.
Personally not interested in tons of features, but headphone and XLR outputs are musts. Dirac Live (found in the C658) would be a plus. Having a local dealer would be huge. I'm a computer dummy and hate to be captive to my ignorance. Currently running iTunes and Tidal via a MacBook Air via a 10ft USB cable, which works well, but have tried a couple of computer servers with more direct connections and they offer complication but no improvement in sound quality, even when going from Redbook to DSD128 (running PS Audio DirectStream Junior into JBL 708P studio monitors).
Incentive is a potential change in venues (old fart downsizing). TIA
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Sonore MicroRendu
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A schematic of the envisioned components in this setup would help me think about options. My first reaction is to say, get an airplay2 DAC, send the content on your Mac to it and you are done but it sounds like you have more changes in mind than just replacing a wire with wireless.
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Sonore MicroRendu
Doesn't that require a computer of some sort?
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A schematic of the envisioned components in this setup would help me think about options. My first reaction is to say, get an airplay2 DAC, send the content on your Mac to it and you are done but it sounds like you have more changes in mind than just replacing a wire with wireless.
Ideally I'd have the streamer/DAC/preamp/headphone amp plus headphones plus subs and active speakers (subs can pass through XLR signals). Input would be TV and be controlled wirelessly via Apple laptop (currently MacBook Air). Currently have a MacBook Air, PS Audio DirectStream Junior DAC/preamp, ProSonus T10 subs feeding JBL 708P active studio monitors, and CSS sub.
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Cocktail audio players could be an option for you.
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Doesn't that require a computer of some sort?
Yeah, sort of. It just requires a network. Of course a home network would have a computer on it with which to set up the network. Regardless, it's probably not what you're looking for.
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Finding a good server and a good DAC in the same box is unlikely. You can stream using a $399 Sonos Connect, but the DAC in it is crap. You could connect it with S/PDIF coax and a good reclocker to a good DAC, like a Metrum acoustics and achieve what you want. This is probably the cheapest way to get there. Sonos can be controlled from an iPad or iPhone for streaming, but you will need a network storage for playing local files. Only plays 44.1 however. Metrum acoustics also has some turn-key solutions including DAC/Headamp. Check them out.
For hi-res, you need something like a Bluesound and a USB DAC. The Bluesound will hold your local files, but you are at the mercy of the SQ of both. The USB needs a regenerator like the tx-USBUltra from SOtM and a good quality USB cable like the Wireworld Platinum.
Steve N.
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Finding a good server and a good DAC in the same box is unlikely. You can stream using a $399 Sonos Connect, but the DAC in it is crap. You could connect it with S/PDIF coax and a good reclocker to a good DAC, like a Metrum acoustics and achieve what you want. This is probably the cheapest way to get there. Sonos can be controlled from an iPad or iPhone for streaming, but you will need a network storage for playing local files. Only plays 44.1 however. Metrum acoustics also has some turn-key solutions including DAC/Headamp. Check them out.
For hi-res, you need something like a Bluesound and a USB DAC. The Bluesound will hold your local files, but you are at the mercy of the SQ of both. The USB needs a regenerator like the tx-USBUltra from SOtM and a good quality USB cable like the Wireworld Platinum.
Steve N.
Thanks but after a one box solution.
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Cocktail audio players could be an option for you.
Thanks. Reading into it, find that they are flexible but heavy on gadgets, no bricks and mortar dealer support, and complex (comes with flexibility).
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Cambridge Audio Edge NQ
https://cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/edge/edge-nq (https://cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/products/edge/edge-nq)
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A lot of current generation smart TV's have streaming apps already loaded within the TV. The optical out on these TV's can be connected to the DAC. For example, the upper end Sony Barvia's support this (as an example).
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How about the Brennan B2?
https://www.thebrennan.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1ZXjl6yD4wIVknQBCh2cEQesEAEYASAAEgJwT_D_BwE
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Look at the Lumin line up.
Aurender is stunning but it reflects that in the price.
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An AC buddy pointed me towards this: https://orchardaudio.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fpcnp-strmr
A very small, barebones, hair shirt, high quality Pi based streamer/DAC with volume control for $450 USD. No screen, only ethernet and USB inputs, only RCA/XLR outputs, but also wireless for remote use via phone, tablet, or computer. Hand made in the US by an engineer.
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An AC buddy pointed me towards this: https://orchardaudio.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fpcnp-strmr
A very small, barebones, hair shirt, high quality Pi based streamer/DAC with volume control for $450 USD. No screen, only ethernet and USB inputs, only RCA/XLR outputs, but also wireless for remote use via phone, tablet, or computer. Hand made in the US by an engineer.
One would need to rip on their computer and then how to get the ripped music over to the PecanPI? I didn't see any specs for storage.
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It's intended mostly as a player, it runs a Linux distribution from the SD card, the linked page lists several options. Usually you would have the files stored on a computer or NAS. Generally speaking if the distribution supports it you can also plug a USB stick or drive into the raspberry pi although in the latter case powering it can be tricky.
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I am still a fan of Bluesound for the price. I think the the Node 2i and Vault 2i are very good values and one can spend the extra money on a DAC of choice. There are many other upscale brands but they come with a much higher price. Innuous and Lumin come to mind.
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I am still a fan of Bluesound for the price. I think the the Node 2i and Vault 2i are very good values and one can spend the extra money on a DAC of choice. There are many other upscale brands but they come with a much higher price. Innuous and Lumin come to mind.
Yes, an audio friend was a long time Node user/fan of it and this whole genre of computerless streaming. As I have professional active speakers I'm looking for XLR analog outputs. The Node's big brother, the NAD C658 is described as "the Node on steroids". It has more of everything: newer ESS chip, more inputs, headphone output, preamp/subwoofer outputs, Dirac basic built-in (with full Dirac as an option), and two expansion ports for future proofing. It's initial release earlier this year was rough as mentioned above but now all is apparently fixed. Naturally the C658 cost more than Node, but still reasonable compared to other products.
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Naim Uniti series
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I would check out both Naim and Linn and if you can avoid xlr then a slim-line marantz receiver.
You can consider for about $150:
https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/bundles/hifiberry-dac-xlr-bundle/
Reasonable sized SDXC card
Install volumio.org image in the sdxc card through an easy application and plug in ethernet for first boot to configure.
Install the Linn Kazoo app to control the volumio and if you enable software volume control you effectively have a built in Preamp. It will have airplay, bluetooth, etc etc.
You can even get a second one with a headphone instead of XLRs.
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How about the Brennan B2?
https://www.thebrennan.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1ZXjl6yD4wIVknQBCh2cEQesEAEYASAAEgJwT_D_BwE
I'm a sucker for small, all-in-one boxes like that. :thumb:
Seems very well designed for a desktop. Not so sure for a 2.3 in-room audio system like mine.
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I would check out both Naim and Linn and if you can avoid xlr then a slim-line marantz receiver.
You can consider for about $150:
https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/bundles/hifiberry-dac-xlr-bundle/
Reasonable sized SDXC card
Install volumio.org image in the sdxc card through an easy application and plug in ethernet for first boot to configure.
Install the Linn Kazoo app to control the volumio and if you enable software volume control you effectively have a built in Preamp. It will have airplay, bluetooth, etc etc.
Sounds highly technical, something that would continue to make me dependent on others for help. And no local Naim or Linn dealers.
You can even get a second one with a headphone instead of XLRs.
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It will have the same exact interface as orchard audio but save you $300. You can buy an sdxc card with volumio installed but the application to image the sdxc card is designed for beginners. The hardest part in my opinion is assembling the case. Also if you end up not liking it you can donate it your local makers club or high school.
The Orchard streamer seems like a great value though with the solid looking case and its just preconfigured.
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I am using a refurbished iPhone 6 SE (costs ~$100 from a Walmart seller) connected to the USB port on my DAC via the Apple Camera Lightning Port adapter cable (~$40 from Apple store). This adapter allows the iPhone to be charged simultaneously as well or whenever the battery runs out of charge.
I dedicate the iPhone just to stream Tidal to my DAC. Kind of a mini streamer with display. I can make Tidal playlists or favorite tracks on my desktop computer and then just select them on the iPhone screen when I want to change between tracks and playlists. Typing into the little 6SE screen is a bit of a pain, so I try to minimize that whenever possible.
Pretty inexpensive way to stream Tidal IMO if you already have a DAC that you like. It sounds excellent (especially the Tidal Masters) to my ears. The DAC is a Topping DX7s.
gab
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I use an Apple Airport Express 2nd generation that I bought on EBay for $45. Won’t play hires files but for casual listening it’s fine. I connect it to my amp via an optical cable. I use Tidal and TuneIn to stream using an iPhone for control.
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I'm rather late to this thread, but another computerless option for streaming would be a Squeezebox Touch with a mysqueezebox.com account. You can set up your Tidal/Deezer/etc. account there and stream with no need for a local PC running LMS (though that would be needed if you want to access music on your local drives or use an app not supported by mysqueezebox.com).
Squeezebox Touches (and their other players) are discontinued but still available used at reasonable prices.
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Not interested in "technical" or DIY solutions or necessarily in saving the maximum money. And want something better than casual listening (Apple Express).
Squeezebox - had a horrible experience with it, 2 weeks of bliss followed by 2 weeks of hell (pure distortion that I couldn't fix no matter what I tried). Very unstable. That is one of the things I'm trying to avoid like the plague. An Apple Express would be far superior to that.
Looking for a family friendly turnkey solution that easy to set up and comes with local support.
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I'm still using a Logitech Transporter which sounds great and I've never had a single issue with it. The downside is that it's no longer sold or supported, and there is no internal storage (like a Blue Sound Vault, for example).
The reasons I haven't changed to something else are: a) It sounds fabulous and b) unlike any other streamer I know of; its optical out is volume controlled and it feeds directly into my DSP crossover; resulting in just a single D/A conversion out of the crossover to the amps.
I would love to have a streamer that can do all the things the Transporter can, plus has internal storage-- but so far I haven't seen one.
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Just get one of the Bluesound Nodes 2i or Vault. No fuss, very easy Roon compliant, run from tablet or phone, no friggin USB! It sounds very good with Qobuz, Tidal Spotify etc. and you are going into a PS Audio Jr. DAC anyway.Must use good cable! Never a problem on my eerO network, flawless.
Buy from Audio Advisor no tax, free shipping and return if you don't like it.
My primary concern here was getting rid of the computer, accomplished.
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Just get one of the Bluesound Nodes 2i or Vault. No fuss, very easy Roon compliant, run from tablet or phone, no friggin USB! It sounds very good with Qobuz, Tidal Spotify etc. and you are going into a PS Audio Jr. DAC anyway.Must use good cable! Never a problem on my eerO network, flawless.
Buy from Audio Advisor no tax, free shipping and return if you don't like it.
My primary concern here was getting rid of the computer, accomplished.
Question: Is the digital out volume-controlled or just a pass thru?
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Review of the Bluesound Node 2i here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-bluesound-node-2i-streamer.6631/
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Yea ok.......I could care less what that site says, lots of BS and controversy about that guy,
written about elsewhere. He's measuring the internal DAC, I'm not using it that way.
To each his own, listen............carry on. I never recommend anything anyway.
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I am late to this form for my main system I wanted to have a network/internet Streamer , instead of relying Nvida Shield Streaming device , so I got a Bluesound node 2i from amazon Prime I feed the coax into my PS AudioDirectstream DAC Sr. after 30 days I sent it back and got myself a Cambridge CXN V2 Streamer & DAC for $ 899. ( Amazon 30 day trial period) this is a very good streamer and does have a very decent dual DAC chips , I have A/B it between the the PS Directstream connected via Coax (wireworld) and the RCA to Don Sachs pre-amp the SQ is very good maybe a little on the bright side . after sending this back I am wondering if I should get an Innous Zen MK 3 or a Wyred4sound streamer which I listened to at the CAS Audio show , except I just stream Tidal & Quboz , and do not rip CD's and since I do have a very good DAC in both by PS audio DS and OPPO 205 do I really need to get one of those network streamers specially when the technology is changing so quickly ? :scratch:
Asghar
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Asghar
Why don't you look on the PS forum and pick up a used Bridge II? Will do what you want with the two streaming services and one less IC and PC. While the mControl software may not be the greatest (Bluesound isn't either) it will do the job you want to do.
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Asghar
Why don't you look on the PS forum and pick up a used Bridge II? Will do what you want with the two streaming services and one less IC and PC. While the mControl software may not be the greatest (Bluesound isn't either) it will do the job you want to do.
Jack ,
I know digital audio is bits Zero's & "1" I could probably pick a bridge 11 , used or new but how does it sound ? having a network card in my DS- would I not get better results with a separate device and less noise, less vibration and more flexibility since that device would not be sharing the same cabinet/Circuit board ; using the same power supply ? I have noticed with the network streamers, that I listened to so far , they all seem to sound different ? what would be best for future flexibility? :popcorn:
Asghar
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Asghar
I've had a Node 2 in for demo as well as owned an Aries Mini, Aries Femto, Oppo Sonica, Lumin D1 w/SBooster LPS and the Bridge II was better in my system than all of them. It was slightly bettered in some instances by the Teac NT-505 which requires you to use it's internal DAC and the Aries G1, both of which are in the $2500 range. That may also be true of the Aurrender and Innuous models in that price range as well as the Lumin U1 Mini but I haven't heard any of them. In my testing three years ago the Aries Mini handily defeated the Node 2 so it went back to AA and I kept the Mini so the Node to my ears is not in the same league as the Bridge II separate case aside. If you want the best sound and future flexibility, if there is such a thing, then it is going to cost. The Bridge II will be around for a least another year and then will be replaced at some point in the future by a network card of PSA's own design. The Bridge II is it's own circuit board and only shares the DS's power supply. It is the same board used by Ayre, Krell and others. If you don't want to try a Bridge II I would opt for the Aries G1 or the Lumin U1 Mini if you don't want or need the ripping feature of the Innuous. They both have a full compliment of outputs.
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Asghar
I've had a Node 2 in for demo as well as owned an Aries Mini, Aries Femto, Oppo Sonica, Lumin D1 w/SBooster LPS and the Bridge II was better in my system than all of them. It was slightly bettered in some instances by the Teac NT-505 which requires you to use it's internal DAC and the Aries G1, both of which are in the $2500 range. That may also be true of the Aurrender and Innuous models in that price range as well as the Lumin U1 Mini but I haven't heard any of them. In my testing three years ago the Aries Mini handily defeated the Node 2 so it went back to AA and I kept the Mini so the Node to my ears is not in the same league as the Bridge II separate case aside. If you want the best sound and future flexibility, if there is such a thing, then it is going to cost. The Bridge II will be around for a least another year and then will be replaced at some point in the future by a network card of PSA's own design. The Bridge II is it's own circuit board and only shares the DS's power supply. It is the same board used by Ayre, Krell and others. If you don't want to try a Bridge II I would opt for the Aries G1 or the Lumin U1 Mini if you don't want or need the ripping feature of the Innuous. They both have a full compliment of outputs.
Thanks ! I am just going to get the Bridge 11 & test for a 30 day trial period
Asghar
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There are two for sale on the PS website for $400.
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There are two for sale on the PS website for $400.
Thanks
Sent him a PM lets see was sold today to some one else !
Asghar
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At least one of the two is or was a member here too.
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Not interested in "technical" or DIY solutions or necessarily in saving the maximum money. And want something better than casual listening (Apple Express).
Squeezebox - had a horrible experience with it, 2 weeks of bliss followed by 2 weeks of hell (pure distortion that I couldn't fix no matter what I tried). Very unstable. That is one of the things I'm trying to avoid like the plague. An Apple Express would be far superior to that.
Looking for a family friendly turnkey solution that easy to set up and comes with local support.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I've had Squeezeboxes since the first MP3 player came out over 15 years ago. I've since had a SB3, a Duet (both sold) and now have had two Touches since the Touch was first released. Have to say all of them have been the most stable computer-based components I've owned.
But, every manufacturer -- even the upscale ones -- have a dud roll off the production line every now and then.
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There are two for sale on the PS website for $400.
Jack
thanks to your tip was able to purchase a bridge 2 from a member on PS audio website for $ 475.00 , I just sent back the cambridge audio CXN V2 streamer back to Amazon, for now maybe that is the best way for me to go although I was getting a very good deal for a Wyred4Sound streamer
Asghar
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I've had Squeezeboxes since the first MP3 player came out over 15 years ago. I've since had a SB3, a Duet (both sold) and now have had two Touches since the Touch was first released. Have to say all of them have been the most stable computer-based components I've owned.
But, every manufacturer -- even the upscale ones -- have a dud roll off the production line every now and then.
Unfortunately my experience with SB was far from unique. I really like their design concept, especially the Duet but have no tolerance for product glitches.
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Unfortunately my experience with SB was far from unique. I really like their design concept, especially the Duet but have no tolerance for product glitches.
Again interesting. I have zero interest in changing your opinion on the subject. You've got a lot of good ideas to choose from with current products. However, I followed the Slimdevices forum closely for a lot of years and never noticed too many issues with their stuff. The biggest item I recall were those, right after the Touch was originally released and well before streaming got going, who wanted to plug their hard drive directly into the Touch, using it as both player and server. The Touch didn't have enough horsepower to directly manage a hard drive with a large collection.
If I recall, your issue was the player sounding distorted after working fine for a couple of weeks. Sounds like a product failure, which is an issue I've never had.
Good luck with whatever you end up doing!
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After months of testing couple of streamers with my PS's audio-Directstream DAC both using USB, Coax and glass Toslink (which now runs into the newly acquired LG Oled TV) finally settled on PS AudioDirectStream Bridge Card 11 hard wired via a cat 7 cable to an old Netgear Gigabit switch . using the Mconnect app on my I phone I am finally seeing and listening to true 24 bit/192 streaming using Quboz the digital lens built into the output of the bridge really does reduce jitter plus the fact that the Bridge 11 uses complex programming into the requisite I2S format is an added bonus for streaming since one cannot get that without additional external hardware and extra cables . The audio quality is truly superb - Now I can listen to music the way I want to without waiting for the next technological streamer to come on to the market or using a noisy mac computer :popcorn:
Asghar
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Just picked up a NAD M10 "streaming (stereo) amplifier". It's a thoroughly modern piece, compact (smaller than a piece of notebook paper 4 inches thick), no buttons, very large clear gorilla glass touch screen, from NAD's Master series. Inputs analog (2), coax, optical, ethernet, WiFi, AirPlay, Bluetooth (both input and output), and USB stored files. It outputs 100 wpc (hybrid class D), preamp outs, subwoofers (2), and (reportedly) Bluetooth headphones. Can be controlled via touch screen, Android/iOS phones via BluOS, and Windows/Mac computers via BluOS (am using iPhone and Mac).
It's sound complements my speakers very well. Waiting for parts before trying Dirac (<500 Hz basic).
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Just picked up a NAD M10 "streaming (stereo) amplifier". It's a thoroughly modern piece, compact (smaller than a piece of notebook paper 4 inches thick), no buttons, very large clear gorilla glass touch screen, from NAD's Master series. Inputs analog (2), coax, optical, ethernet, WiFi, AirPlay, Bluetooth (both input and output), and USB stored files. It outputs 100 wpc (hybrid class D), preamp outs, subwoofers (2), and (reportedly) Bluetooth headphones. Can be controlled via touch screen, Android/iOS phones via BluOS, and Windows/Mac computers via BluOS (am using iPhone and Mac).
It's sound complements my speakers very well. Waiting for parts before trying Dirac (<500 Hz basic).
Congratulations! I like the BluOS and MQA offered in the Bluesound Node. The NAD is a significant step up from Bluesound, look forward to your review. Quite an accomplishment that they include all of that plus dirac.
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Just picked up a NAD M10 "streaming (stereo) amplifier". It's a thoroughly modern piece, compact (smaller than a piece of notebook paper 4 inches thick), no buttons, very large clear gorilla glass touch screen, from NAD's Master series. Inputs analog (2), coax, optical, ethernet, WiFi, AirPlay, Bluetooth (both input and output), and USB stored files. It outputs 100 wpc (hybrid class D), preamp outs, subwoofers (2), and (reportedly) Bluetooth headphones. Can be controlled via touch screen, Android/iOS phones via BluOS, and Windows/Mac computers via BluOS (am using iPhone and Mac).
It's sound complements my speakers very well. Waiting for parts before trying Dirac (<500 Hz basic).
Holy moly, does the thing balance your bank account and do your taxes too? :lol:
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Forgot, the M10 also inputs HDMI audio. The Bluetooth output is for wireless headphones. :green:
Gatto127 and I swapped, my PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DSJ) for his M10. I was debating between Cambridge Audio CXN v.2, NAD C658, and the M10. Come to find out he missed his old DSJ and the M10 was too streamlined/simple to satisfy his yearnings. But the chance to swap convinced me to give the M10 a try.
I made Tidal favorites of all of my library that could and got my library down to 53 GB, so ordered a pair of 128 GB 3.1 flash drives to plug the rest of my library (iTunes ALAC) into the back of the M10.
Gatto127 is sending along an adapter needed to plug the microphone into the M10 to allow Dirac calibration (only have the <500 Hz version that comes standard, and many say the full Dirac is of questionable value). Finally got my subs reset and am ready to tackle Dirac when the adapter arrives.
Will issue a review when I've got the Dirac set up.
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One would need to rip on their computer and then how to get the ripped music over to the PecanPI? I didn't see any specs for storage.
You can plug a big storage device into the PecanPi Streamer's usb port. It will also play music from network attached storage.
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Does the M10 have XLR outputs?
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Does the M10 have XLR outputs?
Nope. A "theoretical" disappointment for me, coming from balanced components. But it sounds wonderful.