[theopaul]

Hi all,
I have a question regarding capacitor life cycle and replacements. I have only been in this hobby for a few years. I understand that capacitors don't have an unlimited life span and require replacement at some point. I always thought for the most part these parts had a life span measured in a few decades, so that your vintage Japanese amp from the 70's or 80's should be recapped. So my question what is it about Klaus's capacitors that have a life span of less than 10 years? I know Klaus uses the best quality parts and I am not implying that there might anything inferior about these parts or that Klaus is just trying to sell more parts. Klaus has my Kismet monoblocks and is recommending replacing the board caps after only 5 years of use. I am happy to spend the money to have the best quality sound for my Odyssey amps but the recommended replacement after 7-8 years seems to be short.
Any thoughts or comments?

[klaus@odyssey]

Had comments on the caps all over this forum....a few thoughts:

-  Theo,  I'm upgrading the 16K caps in your amps to the new Symphonic Line 35 K Hyper caps....and then the trannies to the big momma 850 VA,  which goes hand in hand.

-  As for caps in general,  we have amps coming back for upgrades that are 20 years old,  and the caps are still good.  The SL caps will definitely hold you over for longer than that,  as good caps should do.

- However,  power supply caps are electrolytic.  They simply dry out over a period of time,  and while they survive for longer than that,  they do exhibit audible degradation because of that,  and yes,  I do recommend replacing any ps electrolytic caps after 7-10 years...think of it as an oil change for your amps........

[Norman Tracy]

Contrast Klaus' answer and actions to what is typical in 2018.

I am specifically thinking of Harman who stop support of Mark Levinson models after a product is a few years old. Adding insult to injury they will not supply the component's present owner with service manuals to aid attempts by an independent tech to fix their product. Back in the proverbial day I wanted a ML10 + ML3 set SOOO badly and with once or twice a decade electrolytic caps refresh no reason they should not last decades as the original (long ago laid off by Harman) designers intended. Go to www.marklevinson.com and its like they never existed.

In contrast I see Klaus on this forum supporting it appears everything he has ever made without regards to if the present owner bought it from Odyssey or not.

[aaron.luebke]

...
In contrast I see Klaus on this forum supporting it appears everything he has ever made without regards to if the present owner bought it from Odyssey or not.

This is exactly why I've stuck with Klaus.  I know that he'll support it.  It being anything that's come out of his shop.  I would never expect him to do things not under warranty for free but I know that he's got my back.   

That and this stuff SOUNDS AMAZING!!!!   

[Arcticdeth]

Klaus is top notch dude
  Post Christmas, i may finally have the funds for my Kismet monos'
It has taken way to long, and im hoping my dreams may come true finally!!

I too am curious about the longevity of capacitors.
  I have teflon ones in the amps i currently use, im good for 15+ years as is, im happy witht hat.

The caps Klaus uses,, are t tuer atuff, i would think you will get 15+ years from them, or more until an upgrade will be needed.

I would not worry

[bondmanp]

Theopaul:  My experience with Odyssey Audio Caps has been troubling.  I took delivery of my HT3 with cap upgrade in 2006, and one of the caps went bad within a year or so.  It was under warranty so the repair was covered, but not the shipping, which for a 64lb. amp was not insignificant.

Fast forward to 2018.  The amp again developed issues, I think cap-related.  I spoke to Klaus, who offered an upgrade to Kismet reference internals for the L&R channels for a reasonable price.  Since I had to ship the amp back anyway, I went for it.  Note that Klaus was surprised I had gone 12 years without any cap issues.  It took some time, but I got the upgraded amp back.  However, it had been damaged in shipping, and needed to return to Indiana.  The return shipping was done via air freight to avoid a repeat of shipping issues.  Needless to say, the shipping expenses were high.  For the last year, I was enjoying some of the best sound ever from my system.   The Kismet Reference was a clear improvement over the Stratos with cap upgrade. There was persistent hum in the center channel (repaired but not upgraded), but I decided to use my AVR's center channel amp and just ignore the issue.  Now, this has nothing to do with Klaus, but in the 12 years I have owned the amp, I have developed serious back issues.  Lifting this behemoth and packing and unpacking it was getting very difficult for me.  I figured I would enjoy it for 10-12 years, and then, when the caps failed as I guess they normally do, I would look for a less heavy amplifier.  Well, just shy of one year after the repair/upgrade, I experienced a catastrophic fail, complete with sparking from inside the amp and that dreaded smell of burnt electronics.  Returning this boat anchor to Indianapolis again is simply out of the question, even though I am sure Klaus would offer to fix it, again.  He is not going to come over to my house and carry it out of my basement (I wouldn't expect him to, either). 

When you look at some brands that seem to last forever (e.g., I am now using a borrowed Carver amp that's easily 25 years old, was never serviced, and the only thing that failed were the light bulbs), I have to say I am disappointed.  I am working on getting a respected Class D amp (no flames, please), that weighs about a third of the Odyssey.  Even if it doesn't hold up well, at least I can maneuver it into a shipping carton and take it to the local UPS store without breaking my back.  Odyssey Audio's amps are among the best SS amps I have ever heard, but for me, with my physical limitations, they are no longer an option.

[hi_watt]

I wouldn't worry about cap life with Klaus's amps. My full Kismet loads are getting better and better on my mono amps.

[klaus@odyssey]

Yup..this one is a head scratcher...all I can do is rebuild it / actually upgrade to the 10th for cost,  then test it, listen to it,  and have it on the bench again.....everything that leaves here has been tested and l listen to every unit individually.  There is no unit that hums or smokes etc.  leaving here,  obviously....BUT,  I can't duplicate all of the environs of my nearly 7000 customers either.....of course there are problems from time to time,  it's electronics for Pete's sake...(or shipping as in the custom speakers as mentioned last week)   

Anyway, the point is though that the amp worked fine for over 12 years prior with regular caps...the caps that are now custom made for us are 5 fold superior and super reliable...and then there are the Symphonic Line hyper caps from Germany for the Kismets,  which are in a different league altogether again.........

As I said,  it's a head scratcher,  but not the only one either.....(and yes,  I wish I would hit 1000 instead of 99 % or so,  but that will never happen...you know,  electronics,  etc....)

[klaus@odyssey]

One more anecdote...last month I received 5 amps back...they are 11 years old,  and have been originally sold to the Navy of all places...reason ???  400.000 Hz + at 1 Ohm stability...testing etc....those boys abused the shit out of them.....big time...they sent them back because the test data is off compared to when new...opened them up,  each amp has 8 caps = 40 total.  Out of all of them only 5 were ready to pop.... still working but definitely in need to be exchanged.  After 11 years and ridiculous abuse !!!!!   That's pretty darn good for an amp with the regular caps....

[theopaul]

Klaus,
Just a question. How would you characterize abuse of these amps? Other than dropping them on the floor or dragging them behind your lawn tractor in the rain?
By the way my monoblocks are fully broken in now and they sound amazing...another satisified customer

[klaus@odyssey]

Nope..not physical abuse,  that's what UPS and FedEx  are for.   More looking at extreme signals and volume etc......running 1 Ohm loads for days,  and that kind of stuff.....and who knows what else in conjunction with industrial or even military applications.........

[theopaul]

Klaus. Maybe the military was using your amplifiers to power the NORAD early warning radar system!

[Arcticdeth]

Im hoping for a seriously long lifespan for mine.

 I will not keep mine on 24/7, as i dont listen all the time, im about 3-6 hours a month, if im lucky enough to find the time, sometimes longer.

 when i do listen, I will power on the night before ( when i have permission from my brother of course ) to use his amps and stereo, i take care of my stuff, and always treat my brothers stuff like its  my money which bought it. ALWAYS !.
 IM A GOOD DUDE WITH AUDIO, CAREFUL, CAREFUL, RESPECTFUL TO THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM !
 IF ITS NOT MINE, I TREAT LIKE IT IS  MINE.

 I HAVE LOST A GREAT TURNTABLE, MANY CDS, TO THIS, BORROWING TO (SO CALLED FRIENDS) THEY TRASH STUFF, AS THEY DONT CARE, ) I NOI LONGER BORROW ANYTHING TO ANHYONE, AS I DISLIKE GETTING THINGS BACK worse as when i borrow them out.
these days, im greedy and a dick. if my friends dont like it, tough crappola,
i hate people who mistreat stuff which has cost me a lot of money./
 i have borrowed out numerous cds, a nice Panasonic SL-N25 servo turntable. never ever received it back, i heard my friend ran into his brothers room, and it was under a blanket, and it as stepson on, and trashed, NEVER AGAIN, i had the immaculate boombox set from santa when i was 14 or 15, the panasonic rx-C45 and sl-N25 set with grey
shelf et from Kmart.

still have the boombox, but the hard to find shelf thing is long gone as is the TT, broke my heart, as i mentioned, i took great care of my stuff, and when i lost the TT to my dick friend, i kind of lost respect for audio for a few years.

 it sucks, I've been searching for the TT for years and that shelf unit which said panasominis,no avail. nowhere to b found !!!!!!!


anyway, back on track, as i tend to wonder as i damage the ol liver.

 im hoping to get at least 15years from my amps, as mentioned, not much ue given to them.

I have 2 preamps i will test with them, an old B&K Pro 10MC (newer style) unserviced dined purchase in early 90's, and t he Onkyo P-308 grand integral one.

 both function great, im thinking of sending the B&K to recap soon, unsure if it is worth the money, as she still sounds great.
or maybe use the Sanders Sound System Preamp (newer version W phono) Sanders is great but very, very true to playback, what you play, is what you get, she is extremely honest, as the B&K, and only color just a bit to their house sound.

 cant lose either way, but its always fun swapping components and trying music.

my test discs are the  Sanders sound test disc, pat travers, motorhead, dark angel, accept, schenker, scorps, megadeth, sodom, and so many more.

 wow, did i just type all this.............????
yup, 2nd shaken glass of Grey Goose and Ketel one.

 im hoping these amps last a loooong time.
I have made my purchase for some killer Klaus Bunge amps, im hoping and praying they will stand the  test of time.  Please Klaus....... im on my knees begging for some killer amps.

 i NEED to show up my brother and his power house amps, which he talks so highly of. im not sure mine will h ave the balls to out do his. im hoping.

good night all !