[drummermitchell]

What's better musically(besides no cable) in digital.
#1- coaxial
#2-AES-EBU
#3-Optical
I need to know why,I know XLR balanced is a better connection than coax.
If there are improvements in the AES cable,what might they be.
i use to use (and still use)my analog outs of my BCD-1.
Now that i have the BDA-1,I am using the coax,I'm liking that also,gonna switch back to the analog balanced and check that out again.
I should be receiving my AES-EBU balanced(can't wait to try that out)pretty quick.
Nice to have a mess of options with the cdp and dac.
Any thoughts guys.

[werd]

I know the  coax on the bda 1 is transformer coupled and sounds really good, i think AES is also.

[drummermitchell]

Hi lorne,I was quite surprized trying the coax and found it very satisfiying.
I wonder if the AES will give me MORE musicality,I sure like the BDA-1.

[werd]

Hi lorne,I was quite surprized trying the coax and found it very satisfiying.
I wonder if the AES will give me MORE musicality,I sure like the BDA-1.

I know the coax is really nice with harddrives as opposed to the usb. i think its primarily because of the transformer coupled coax. Drives way nicer than the usb.

[Moon Doggy]

1. AES (can run long lengths)
2. Coax (but short and good cable 1.5M) So its not so good if you have noisy hard drive in music server.
3. Toslink (anything with good connectors but not over 5M)

Thats one of the reasons Bryston BDA is so fine... it has AES. Superb!

[werd]

1. AES (can run long lengths)
2. Coax (but short and good cable 1.5M) So its not so good if you have noisy hard drive in music server.
3. Toslink (anything with good connectors but not over 5M)

Thats one of the reasons Bryston BDA is so fine... it has AES. Superb!

Toslink doesnt give you the choke like the coax and AES does. Good for xbox and stuff like that i suppose though.

[drummermitchell]

So I'm thinking the AES-bal and the coax would probably have the same musical properties,
except the AES-BAL is better for long runs if wew were suseptable to RFIs ect.
When i receive the AES,as I was saying before,I will have at least 4 to mess with.

[racerxnet]

Toslink doesnt give you the choke like the coax and AES does. Good for xbox and stuff like that i suppose though.

In a Pc configuration it allows for isolation from the ground. Toslink may have limitations just like every other cable, but a properly implemented design is key to quality and success.

With quality 1 meter connections I doubt balanced or unbalanced will make any difference at all. I posed this question at audiogon as well as DIY audio.com. My amps and Pre are all within 3 feet and the Infinity bass control module only accepts unbalanced. Don't let the 6db gain in balanced mode sway your perception.

MAK

[werd]

Toslink doesnt give you the choke like the coax and AES does. Good for xbox and stuff like that i suppose though.

In a Pc configuration it allows for isolation from the ground. Toslink may have limitations just like every other cable, but a properly implemented design is key to quality and success.

With quality 1 meter connections I doubt balanced or unbalanced will make any difference at all. I posed this question at audiogon as well as DIY audio.com. My amps and Pre are all within 3 feet and the Infinity bass control module only accepts unbalanced. Don't let the 6db gain in balanced mode sway your perception.

MAK

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac. The AES does also, but harder to find sounds cards or components with HDs that use AES. The usb is nice but the coax walks all over it via Harddrives. I was strongly considering using Empirical audio's turbo 3 offramp (coax) until i found this Pioneer 560h-k (HD, lossless cd, coax out) dvd recorder with a 160gb HD.

[racerxnet]

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac. The AES does also, but harder to find sounds cards or components with HDs that use AES. The usb is nice but the coax walks all over it via Harddrives. I was strongly considering using Empirical audio's turbo 3 offramp (coax) until i found this Pioneer 560h-k (HD, lossless cd, coax out) dvd recorder with a 160gb HD.

Coax walks all over what?  Gordon Rankins wavelenght... I think not. It has USB with custom drivers for connection. And coax for Pc connection has not been proven to be superior over Toslink for the fact of galvanic isolation should ground loop pose a problem. AES has been implemented on several Pro cards I have used in the past; Lynnx, RME, and a couple of others. If you want the best connection I suggest I2S for master and slave in a PC environment.

Your dreaming about coax and HD playback in a PC without first resolving the many issues of EMI, RFI for best playback. Linear PS for the card rails, PCI extender to get the card out of the case, High quality low ripple PS for the PC itself, BNC connections for true 75 ohm connections, SRC for 145SNR sample rate. Mod the caps for better filtering.

Do you get the idea here. Its more than just the type of connection and DAC. Don't get me wrong, I like Bryston as well as everyone else, but blanket statements are just plain dumb.  Here is a DIY DAC with the latest ESS Sabre chip. I'd bet it will outperform many others if you have the technical know how and tools to add to the base card. Show me some specs from your scope that proves one connection is superior consistently to another and I'll agree with the statement.

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

Later,

Mak

[werd]

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac. The AES does also, but harder to find sounds cards or components with HDs that use AES. The usb is nice but the coax walks all over it via Harddrives. I was strongly considering using Empirical audio's turbo 3 offramp (coax) until i found this Pioneer 560h-k (HD, lossless cd, coax out) dvd recorder with a 160gb HD.

Coax walks all over what?  Gordon Rankins wavelenght... I think not. It has USB with custom drivers for connection. And coax for Pc connection has not been proven to be superior over Toslink for the fact of galvanic isolation should ground loop pose a problem. AES has been implemented on several Pro cards I have used in the past; Lynnx, RME, and a couple of others. If you want the best connection I suggest I2S for master and slave in a PC environment.

Your dreaming about coax and HD playback in a PC without first resolving the many issues of EMI, RFI for best playback. Linear PS for the card rails, PCI extender to get the card out of the case, High quality low ripple PS for the PC itself, BNC connections for true 75 ohm connections, SRC for 145SNR sample rate. Mod the caps for better filtering.

Do you get the idea here. Its more than just the type of connection and DAC. Don't get me wrong, I like Bryston as well as everyone else, but blanket statements are just plain dumb.  Here is a DIY DAC with the latest ESS Sabre chip. I'd bet it will outperform many others if you have the technical know how and tools to add to the base card. Show me some specs from your scope that proves one connection is superior consistently to another and I'll agree with the statement.

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

Later,

Mak

  The only idea i get here is your inability to read posts before you comment. We are talking about the BDA1 here and not the wavelength or any other dac, so there are no blanket statements here. Ive had the Bryston for several months and have used both coax and usb. The Bryston dac ime is much nicer with coax than usb
and i believe it to be a design goal by bryston. I dont care about any other dac and nor will comment about one.

So you can go fiddle with your toslink for all i care.

[racerxnet]

So you can go fiddle with your toslink for all i care.

Still no scope reads to prove your point though, just BS. I've used coax, toslink, glass, USB and currently I2S.

I know the coax is really nice with harddrives as opposed to the usb. i think its primarily because of the transformer coupled coax. Drives way nicer than the usb.

 How so??? What makes the Bryston DAC better with one connection than the other?  Specific data please.. What software for playback. Soundcard make and model. ASIO or waspi, kernel streaming? SSD drive? Jitter reduction/rejection?  James, you care to comment on the statement above. 

Werd, don't get pissed because some of your answers have no merit to them in the real world. You have no Data at this time to support some of your comments with or without the Bryston DAC. Each connection has its merits and detractions.  You never did counter with any reply regarding PC connections as you quoted above. I'll leave this thread and you believe what you want, but I prefer to educate others in regards to connection types and applications involved in the audio chain. And not just with the BDA1. If anyone really wants to understand how chipsets, power supplies, PCB's, ground planes and other technical data apply to the sonic impact you can go to this site and learn a bit more: http://www.diyaudio.com/   Nothing beats hands on skills.

  Have a wonderful day.

  MAK 

[werd]

Gross, another guy who is more interested in replenishing his ego with threats of data than actually paying attention to the spirit of the thread. You wanna know why the coax is better on the BDA1 , ive got threads and data i can link but thats all they are is links. No one cares. Here is one that relates to the bda1 directly... its an ADC  but its the same thing as DAC as the signal rides on ac. http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/39-04/transformer.html

That link demonstrates why the bda1 has such a nice coax in.

you know what, but now i look like a total arrogant peahead and thats why we dont try and educate. Those post mean nothing to me and never will as they dont translate into what i am lookin for as far as opinions.

Thanx for not posting

[NewBuyer]

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac...

Hi werd,

Just curious please: Since toslink is already perfectly isolated galvanically, why/how would wired pulse-transformer isolation be "better"?

[95Dyna]

So you can go fiddle with your toslink for all i care.

Still no scope reads to prove your point though, just BS. I've used coax, toslink, glass, USB and currently I2S.

I know the coax is really nice with harddrives as opposed to the usb. i think its primarily because of the transformer coupled coax. Drives way nicer than the usb.

 How so??? What makes the Bryston DAC better with one connection than the other?  Specific data please.. What software for playback. Soundcard make and model. ASIO or waspi, kernel streaming? SSD drive? Jitter reduction/rejection?  James, you care to comment on the statement above. 

Werd, don't get pissed because some of your answers have no merit to them in the real world. You have no Data at this time to support some of your comments with or without the Bryston DAC. Each connection has its merits and detractions.  You never did counter with any reply regarding PC connections as you quoted above. I'll leave this thread and you believe what you want, but I prefer to educate others in regards to connection types and applications involved in the audio chain. And not just with the BDA1. If anyone really wants to understand how chipsets, power supplies, PCB's, ground planes and other technical data apply to the sonic impact you can go to this site and learn a bit more: http://www.diyaudio.com/   Nothing beats hands on skills.

  Have a wonderful day.

  MAK 

Hi Racerxnet,

May I suggest that you get lost for a while until you cool down and are able to conduct a civilized adult conversation.  Your total of 8 posts on this circle combined with your vitriolic approach to conversation indicates you are not in step with the way we talk to each other here.

Regards,

Bill

[werd]

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac...

Hi werd,

Just curious please: Since toslink is already perfectly isolated galvanically, why/how would wired pulse-transformer isolation be "better"?

Hi Newbuyer

According to Bryston the main is goal is jitter reduction. The transport sees the transformer as a perfect impedance device(which is ideal), it then bridges the signal at an impedance that the dac circuitry uses. Probably 75 ohms on each side... dont know. Toslink is inheritantly bad for jitter and you're right, it wouldnt benefit from any isolation.

Dont know why they didnt try an improve the toslink (maybe not possible). According to their website only coax and aes use this transformer.

[James Tanner]

The toslink like the usb doesnt give you the coupled transformers that Bryston has implemented in their BDA1. In a pc configuration the way to go is with coax since it utilizes this feature with this dac...

Hi werd,

Just curious please: Since toslink is already perfectly isolated galvanically, why/how would wired pulse-transformer isolation be "better"?

Hi Newbuyer

According to Bryston the main is goal is jitter reduction. The transport sees the transformer as a perfect impedance device(which is ideal), it then bridges the signal at an impedance that the dac circuitry uses. Probably 75 ohms on each side... dont know. Toslink is inheritantly bad for jitter and you're right, it wouldnt benefit from any isolation.

Dont know why they didnt try an improve the toslink (maybe not possible). According to their website only coax and aes use this transformer.

Hi,

Correct - Toslink does not require impedance matching or isolation.

james

[Moon Doggy]

I only rated Coax as #2 under strict conditions for being better than Toslink. Great quality cable, short length, impedance matching, isolation as James says... and then theoretically coax can carry a hi Rez digital signal up to 24/192. Optical is ranked third because as werd says its a more jittery interface. But interface jitter is only a problem with a poorly designed DAC. A well designed  DAC should eliminate interface jitter so then Toslink is fine. Its only a prob if it affects the clock jitter which is the real problem.
  Thats my understanding at this point. 

[werd]

I only rated Coax as #2 under strict conditions for being better than Toslink. Great quality cable, short length, impedance matching, isolation as James says... and then theoretically coax can carry a hi Rez digital signal up to 24/192. Optical is ranked third because as werd says its a more jittery interface. But interface jitter is only a problem with a poorly designed DAC. A well designed  DAC should eliminate interface jitter so then Toslink is fine. Its only a prob if it affects the clock jitter which is the real problem.
  Thats my understanding at this point. 

The toslink cable itself can be its own worst enemy as its made of plastic connects. There is a glass optical available (st optical) which is suppose to be very good in all areas. I think it requires its own input and cant be used with a regular toslink connect