AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: lacro on 8 Dec 2013, 05:29 pm
-
And the TPA3110 is only $10 at Parts Express and that also sounds incredible (if you can handle low power). The <50w digital amp options are exploding and many of them sound fantastic and they are dirt cheap especially for those with a little solder skill.
Awhile back I tried the PE TPA3110 including the mod you suggested, and felt it indeed sounded very good compared to the Tripath's I have, but I had only tried it with a cheap little laptop for streaming Pandora. My desktop PC based system consists of a Parts Express DTA-100A amp I have have had for a couple years along with some Paradigm Atoms V3 that I previously used for surrounds. The little PC desktop near-field system always sounded good to my ears.
However, the pot in the PE amp started making scratchy noises, so I took it apart to see if I wanted to attempt replacing it. In the mean time I wanted to keep listening to my Pandora stream. So I introduced the little $10, 8W, TPA3110 into my desktop system. Wow!... I can't believe this little amp can sound so much BETTER than the PE DTA-100A that was $100 when I bought it.
I really want to replace the 30W DTA-100A amp (Tripath 2050 board) with this little wonder that is probably only delivering 3-5 watts into my 8 ohm speakers.
Here is my question: The Paradigm speakers are not very efficient, and are listed as requiring 15-80 watts. Am I risking damaging the speakers with this low power amp? My listening levels are moderate as I am only about 3' from the drivers. I don't notice any amp clipping or distortion, just great sound! Thoughts/suggestions appreciated
-
Awhile back I tried the PE TPA3110 including the mod you suggested, and felt it indeed sounded very good compared to the Tripath's I have, but I had only tried it with a cheap little laptop for streaming Pandora. My desktop PC based system consists of a Parts Express DTA-100A amp I have have had for a couple years along with some Paradigm Atoms V3 that I previously used for surrounds. The little PC desktop near-field system always sounded good to my ears.
However, the pot in the PE amp started making scratchy noises, so I took it apart to see if I wanted to attempt replacing it. In the mean time I wanted to keep listening to my Pandora stream. So I introduced the little $10, 8W, TPA3110 into my desktop system. Wow!... I can't believe this little amp can sound so much BETTER than the PE DTA-100A that was $100 when I bought it.
I really want to replace the 30W DTA-100A amp (Tripath 2050 board) with this little wonder that is probably only delivering 3-5 watts into my 8 ohm speakers.
Here is my question: The Paradigm speakers are not very efficient, and are listed as requiring 15-80 watts. Am I risking damaging the speakers with this low power amp? My listening levels are moderate as I am only about 3' from the drivers. I don't notice any amp clipping or distortion, just great sound! Thoughts/suggestions appreciated
Glad you're enjoying the TPA amp. Slowly but surely they're developing a following. As for your speakers as long as they sound good with no clipping/distortion you're okay. They are not in any danger. If you were in the process of damaging them that would require a lot more power and you would *know* if they were in trouble. With the amp having lower power you are more likely to damage the amp first than the speakers if you pushed it to its limits. At your listening distance you need very little power. So you're fine.
-
I have 98dB sensitive Klipsch Forte IIs. I'm trying to determine which TPA31xx amp will produce the best sound quality. I kind of like the idea of using the TPA3110D2 without the output filter, but if the TPA3116D2 or the TPA3122D2 are better amps, I would try one of those. I've been having fun playing with the TDA7297 Class A/B amp, but many people on these Web forums are telling me to give these TI Class D amps a try.
-
I have 98dB sensitive Klipsch Forte IIs. I'm trying to determine which TPA31xx amp will produce the best sound quality. I kind of like the idea of using the TPA3110D2 without the output filter, but if the TPA3116D2 or the TPA3122D2 are better amps, I would try one of those. I've been having fun playing with the TDA7297 Class A/B amp, but many people on these Web forums are telling me to give these TI Class D amps a try.
I and others have found the 3110 to sound just as good as the 3116, just has less power.
-
Okay, I'm officially totally confused about which T/D class C&C amp kit is best. I'd love to buy one, just one, and drive a normal set of speakers, 89db or so, to small room volumes. And it should be the best sounding chip amp. Which one? Tell me now and no mistakes allowed.
-
Okay, I'm officially totally confused about which T/D class C&C amp kit is best. I'd love to buy one, just one, and drive a normal set of speakers, 89db or so, to small room volumes. And it should be the best sounding chip amp. Which one? Tell me now and no mistakes allowed.
Heh. Just go with the TPA 3116. It's the newest and has the most power. Think of it as 80% the performance of the TBI Millenia amp for 1/10th to 1/20th the cost with more power.
Here's the 2.0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-ClassD-Amplifier-Board-50W-50W-Filter-Capacitor-2-10000UF-DC18V-24V-/290976210305?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item43bf889d81
The only ones with enclosures are 2.1 with tone controls:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINISHED-Class-D-AMP-TPA3116-2-1-amplifier-2-50W-100-W-AQ-/400567805660?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d43b3a6dc
-
Those are some crazy watts for very little money. I want to build one, just for the sake of building one. Looks like fun.
-
Heh. Just go with the TPA 3116. It's the newest and has the most power. Think of it as 80% the performance of the TBI Millenia amp for 1/10th to 1/20th the cost with more power.
Here's the 2.0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-ClassD-Amplifier-Board-50W-50W-Filter-Capacitor-2-10000UF-DC18V-24V-/290976210305?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item43bf889d81
The only ones with enclosures are 2.1 with tone controls:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINISHED-Class-D-AMP-TPA3116-2-1-amplifier-2-50W-100-W-AQ-/400567805660?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d43b3a6dc
This looks like a fun and very inexpensive project. Is there an enclosure that is made for these boards? I see the RCAs and power jack are on the board. Or would you just de-solder and extend with leads?
Edit: After a second look I see the standard TPA3116 doesn't have the RCA soldered to the board, just the volume pot. That's easier to work with.......
Greg
-
Those are some crazy watts for very little money. I want to build one, just for the sake of building one. Looks like fun.
Abbie needs that! ;)
-
Abbie needs that! ;)
:lol: You got it Brother. Daddy needs one too.
-
:lol: You got it Brother. Daddy needs one too.
I tell you what.....on behalf of AC I'll buy hers and you can put it under the tree for her from all of us at AC. Then you can truly build them side by side.
-
Wow, dude, you're cool. I greatly appreciate that. :thumb:
I'll stop you there though, I've giving her an old tuner of mine. That'll not only give her an amp to run the new speakers, but also a switching source for music, tv, and Wii.
Thanks again! You're awesome.
Bob
-
Wow, dude, you're cool. I greatly appreciate that. :thumb:
I'll stop you there though, I've giving her an old tuner of mine. That'll not only give her an amp to run the new speakers, but also a switching source for music, tv, and Wii.
Thanks again! You're awesome.
Bob
PM me the info and I'll get it going.
-
Heh. Just go with the TPA 3116. It's the newest and has the most power. Think of it as 80% the performance of the TBI Millenia amp for 1/10th to 1/20th the cost with more power.
Here's the 2.0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-ClassD-Amplifier-Board-50W-50W-Filter-Capacitor-2-10000UF-DC18V-24V-/290976210305?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item43bf889d81
The only ones with enclosures are 2.1 with tone controls:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINISHED-Class-D-AMP-TPA3116-2-1-amplifier-2-50W-100-W-AQ-/400567805660?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d43b3a6dc
Some questions, the prices go from $9.99 yo $19.99 on the plain board including shipping, why the big variation? i.e. am I missing something?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TPA3116-Class-D-2-50W-Amp-kit-Amplifier-DIY-Assembled-Board-/321271717852?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4acd495fdc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TPA3116-Class-D-2-50W-Amp-kit-Amplifier-DIY-Assembled-Board-/321271717852?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4acd495fdc)
Why on the finished board do they have tone controls and no balance control, and why the 2.1 config with the 100W sub output? Once again, am I missing something? I understand this config on an 8w desktop system, but on something suppose to compete with the TBI? Of course I answered my own question there, it's suppose to be a desktop system, however I'd love to see this chip with a normal audiophile setup.
PS: If admin could split this topic from the first two posts to a second thread on 3110 and 3116 chip amps that would be great. For some reason I can't split it myself.
Secondly, a request/suggestion that we title these threads including the model # of the chip in order to make some sense of it all. For example "$6 TDA7297 Chip Amp" like rhing did.
-
PS: If admin could split this topic from the first two posts to a second thread on 3110 and 3116 chip amps that would be great. For some reason I can't split it myself.
OK ;)
-
why ... am I missing something? ... Why ... why ... am I missing something?
I don't think there's supposed to be a rhyme or reason, it's just inexpensive Chinese electronics ;)
This one looks interesting for a little HT system: http://www.ebay.com/itm/YJ-TPA3116-5-1-channel-50W-X6-amplifier-board-/200976025494?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2ecb1ac796
-
Some questions, the prices go from $9.99 yo $19.99 on the plain board including shipping, why the big variation? i.e. am I missing something?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TPA3116-Class-D-2-50W-Amp-kit-Amplifier-DIY-Assembled-Board-/321271717852?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4acd495fdc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TPA3116-Class-D-2-50W-Amp-kit-Amplifier-DIY-Assembled-Board-/321271717852?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4acd495fdc)
Why on the finished board do they have tone controls and no balance control, and why the 2.1 config with the 100W sub output? Once again, am I missing something? I understand this config on an 8w desktop system, but on something suppose to compete with the TBI? Of course I answered my own question there, it's suppose to be a desktop system, however I'd love to see this chip with a normal audiophile setup.
PS: If admin could split this topic from the first two posts to a second thread on 3110 and 3116 chip amps that would be great. For some reason I can't split it myself.
Secondly, a request/suggestion that we title these threads including the model # of the chip in order to make some sense of it all. For example "$6 TDA7297 Chip Amp" like rhing did.
The 9.99 is an auction, not Buy It Now price. But as JohnR said no you're not missing anything, just different configurations based on the many other types of amp kits that are sold. Just get the 2.0. I don't know why there isn't 2.0 w/ enclosure. They're not competing with the TBI, they're following the threads on this chip at diyaudio so maybe they assume the 2.0 will be modded anyway (they're right) and will sell more as bare pcb (right again).
Buy from a seller with lots of good feedback and you'll be fine.
-
Be sure to get the RCA input connector if you want plug and play. It is sold separately.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YJ-5pcs-High-quality-audio-cable-length-35MM-RCA-jack-for-TDA8920-8950-TPA3116-/190891790398?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c7209903e
I recommend getting the board from this seller as well (zoetsang). Shipping is about 7 days to Cali.
-
are you guys planning on using the volume pot or maxing it and going with a pre-amplifier? I have the much touted Indeed amplifier which I think sounds much better with the volume maxed and put through my Trung Optocoupler pre. Not only is it louder, it has better everything. Everything i care about or can hear I should say.
-
Wushuliu,
What have you tweaked with the amp boards? What was swapped out and replaced :-)
-
Wushuliu,
What have you tweaked with the amp boards? What was swapped out and replaced :-)
Volume pot bypassed, input caps replaced, PS caps replaced, inductors replaced, some output filter caps replaced. You know, the usual!
That said it sounds great stock. I think these amps are ridiculous value for the money, especially the $10 PE TPA3110, provided it meets one's needs. Still can't believe TBI is the only company selling retail products based on these chips. Instead the sellers on ebay are making bank. I am absolutely 100% a fanboy. I used the TPA3110 as my main amp for about a year and never tinkered with it but once - it was so good I never thought about it. Just sat there, this tiny little thing, while I messed around with everything else.
-
Volume pot bypassed, input caps replaced, PS caps replaced, inductors replaced, some output filter caps replaced. You know, the usual!
That said it sounds great stock. I think these amps are ridiculous value for the money, especially the $10 PE TPA3110, provided it meets one's needs. Still can't believe TBI is the only company selling retail products based on these chips. Instead the sellers on ebay are making bank. I am absolutely 100% a fanboy. I used the TPA3110 as my main amp for about a year and never tinkered with it but once - it was so good I never thought about it. Just sat there, this tiny little thing, while I messed around with everything else.
I will be driving the Zu Soul Superfly with them which are 101db efficient, so I should be ok with the tpa3110, but will also order the 3116 based one. Assuming the parts-express one is this one - http://www.parts-express.com/2x8w-at-4-ohm-tpa3110-class-d-audio-amplifier-board-only--320-329
-
Assuming the parts-express one is this one - http://www.parts-express.com/2x8w-at-4-ohm-tpa3110-class-d-audio-amplifier-board-only--320-329
that's the one.
-
I'm getting the Sure Electronics board too for comparison to the TDA7297 Class A/B amp. I'll wire it up as a power amp and drive it with my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage. This just seems ridiculous pairing these low powered SS amps with expensive tube gear, but there is absolutely no shame in using this new technology with other high end audio gear. I'm sitting here in my man cave with my little black boxed TDA7297 connected to my Audio Research PH5 phono stage and I am just astounded how huge and deep the soundstage is and the natural tonality of this combination. I can't wait to try out the TI Class D amp. I will also be modifying a Magnavox single ended 6BQ5/EL84 console amp for comparison over the holidays.
-
I got one of the 3116s. It does sound quite good, and way good for the money. The ones on eBay on a bid basis usually go for about $16-$18.
Looking around Houston, I could not find the part that clips on to the board for the source input. I have some very fine Teflon insulated .9999 silver wire. I ended up breaking off the front part of the plastic connector on the board and just soldering the wire to that - with RCAs at the other end. It is delicate and possibly better sonically. I see that the part for this is listed above in post #17. Thanks, W.
It looks like the power draw for the 3116 is about 5 amps. I found a Cosel linear/non-switching power supply that has worked quite well. The 3116 is rated at 50 watts per channel.
Previously, I was playing with a TA2024 amp rated at 15 watts per channel. The 3116 is on a board and the 2024 was completed and in a case. The power draw is 2 amps for the 2024.
For the 2024, I found that a non-switching power supply sounded better than the switching PS. For the 2024, I found a 12 volt linear PS by Pyramid on Amazon. The 3116 calls for a 24 volt power supply. I just got in a 24 volt switching PS to compare to the linear PS. Later, I'll post how those units compare.
There are the LME49810 amps out there on eBay. As I read some of the specs, it looks like it needs input power at both 48 volts and 60 volts. The boards are mono and rated at 300 watts per channel. Those are the newest (so far as I know) chips from Texas Instruments - National Semiconductor. I think that I will stay in the minors for a while longer and work with the 3116s, or something similar. I'd be interested in hearing about the results and conclusions if someone goes the route of the LME49810 amp.
-
It looks like the power draw for the 3116 is about 5 amps. I found a Cosel linear/non-switching power supply that has worked quite well. The 3116 is rated at 50 watts per channel.
Just an FYI, the 3116 amps do not draw 5 amps - they use far, far less unless you are cranking high spl's/dynamic range or really want to have reserve for peak current. One owner measured only 40mA with their speakers (though full range).
Also the 3116 is usable down to 6v. Consensus elsewhere is that 12-20v is the sweet spot. I use 12v SLA batteries.
-
Five amps is flat out max power. I believe that was the specification I saw with one seller - 4.7 amps actually. And it about calculates out on 24 volts and 50 watts. I like to know that the amp will be able to draw what it needs.
It seems like the sellers' power supply specification was 18 to 24 volts. It is interesting that you are running it at a lower voltage. I've been out of town for some weeks. Likely, that was a discussion here, and I missed it. I'll look for it. Thanks for the information.
-
Five amps is flat out max power. I believe that was the specification I saw with one seller - 4.7 amps actually. And it about calculates out on 24 volts and 50 watts. I like to know that the amp will be able to draw what it needs.
It seems like the sellers' power supply specification was 18 to 24 volts. It is interesting that you are running it at a lower voltage. I've been out of town for some weeks. Likely, that was a discussion here, and I missed it. I'll look for it. Thanks for the information.
Wasn't discussed here. The ebay seller specs are misleading. Voltage range is on the official TI datasheet.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf
You can look at the charts and determine output watts vs. power. So you could run the amp off a 9v battery if you wanted to.
-
Silly payday purchase. Because this is about all I can afford in stereo so it feels good to buy some new toys. Bought the 3116 board and RCA input. I have four others now. Two Sure boards, Indeed and one from Thinkgeek which got this whole experience started with tripath amps. Maybe I'll even put this one in a case someday.
Oh the other big thing is I had the TBI on tour and my Lores meshed great with that amp.
-
I put my TPA3110 into a box which when finished, I will post pics. My new C&C Schiit Modi Dac arrived yesterday. I combined it with the TPA 3110 which I dubbed "The little Ass Kicker" (Walking dead fan here). WOW!! I am blown away. The "Little Ass Kicker" with 3 usable watts, just destroys it's predecessor the PE DTA-100A amp which has 10 times the power!
Anyone that thinks that 3 watts is not enough power for a nearfield computer sound system should waste $10 on the "Little Ass Kicker" and see for yourself. I am listening right now at 100 db SPL with Windows volume set a 50% Absolutely amazing :thumb: The sound from this little amp fills the room, heck it fills the whole house with great music listening!
I think I will get some more "Little Ass Kickers" to build into boxes, and give them away as gifts. They should make great receiver destroyers...
I know it's best to keep threads on subject, so I won't comment on my very first DAC, but I will say it is the frosting on the cake...why did I wait so long to add a DAC???
Lacro
-
Forgot to mention the 12V Indeed power supply I use with Tripath amps. I found somebody's online review of a Tripath amp. They stated that this PS that is 5 amps was the best switching PS they had tried. I have been using a 3 amp one from PE, but when switching to this one, the sound quality does seem to be better on all the amps I have tried it on. It comes direct from Indeed (China) with free shipping, and is pretty cheap :thumb:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC90-265V-Adapter-12V5A-for-Tripath-TA2024-TA2020-T-amp-/250734255819?pt=US_MP3_Player_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a60ed1ecb
-
You guys may enjoy this: http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4534
Some neat ideas for boxing up the amp for "presentation".
Bob
-
You guys may enjoy this: http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4534
Some neat ideas for boxing up the amp for "presentation".
Bob
Bob... Thanks for sharing! The "wild looking" builds are getting my wheels turning :thumb:
-
You guys may enjoy this: http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4534
Some neat ideas for boxing up the amp for "presentation".
Bob
Yes, fleawatt's a fan of these amps. He's done some very creative builds.
fleawatt.blogspot.com (http://fleawatt.blogspot.com)
-
Here is my Apple Airport Express inspired TPA3110 build. I really like the way this little amp sounds. I think it sounds better that the Sure 100X2 2050 amp. I made it from parts I had lying around and some 1/4 MDF board.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91516)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91517)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91518)
I can't figure out how to get the pictures to be right side up :duh:
-
Very nice!
-
Yes, fleawatt's a fan of these amps. He's done some very creative builds.
fleawatt.blogspot.com (http://fleawatt.blogspot.com)
PM sent...
-
I received my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp board from Parts Express. I started with the basic, "can't wait to set it up" setup with the amp and connected it to my ARC LS7 tube line stage preamp and Klipsch Forte II speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91782)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91783)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91784)
Overall, I really like the presentation. To my ears, this amp is capable of delivering really good sound that is better than the older Tripath-based Class D amps I've had and still own; however, I have an issue with background noise that sounds like RFI. When I engage the MUTE on my preamp, the noise goes away.
MLS on another thread here mentioned he had the same problem with his TPA3110D2 amp when he connected it to his preamp, but when he connected it to his Airport Express, the noise went away.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.msg1287675#msg1287675 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.msg1287675#msg1287675)
I fabricated a makeshift test chassis using some scrap wood, Aluminum angle stock and better connectors. So then I connected my amp to my iPhone and played some music and the noise went away.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91785)
- Anyone have any ideas as to why I am hearing noise with my preamp?
- Is it an impedance-matching issue where I need to add 47kohm resistors between the signal inputs and ground?
- Is it a shielding issue where this amp needs to be in a metal enclosure with shielded hook-up wire to limit RFI emission?
-
I have my TPA3110 set up with RCA inputs also and if I have a 3mm plug that converts to RCA's hooked up to the amp with the plug unplugged it makes noise until I plug it in the the Airport express. It also makes a different weird noise when I have it connected to my with MacBook Air with MacBook Air running on battery. I have a Maverick Audio D1 pre-amp that I use for an office set up and when the TPA 3110 is connected to that with RCA interconnects it also has the background noise. The Maverick has a 3 prong plug where the airport express has a 2 prong plug. I have tried connecting an alligator clip test wire to the metal screw holes on the TPA3110 and the chassis of the Maverick and the background noise was a little lower but still there.
So I am stumped?
-
what size cable is everyone running for the binding post and power?
-
Following the Cheap and Cheerful spirit, I use the Walmart ("White Lightning Moonshine") Wood Patio Cable. 2 x 16AWG for "+" and 1 x 16AWG for "-." My cables are 10 ft. per side.
Believe or not, these cables beat out Kimber Kable 8TC, and cost far less. I will try a few more tests today, if I can break free from the NFL Red Zone. Too many good games to watch.
-
I am using 14ga Monoprice speaker cable, a 12 volt 5 amp brick power supply, and a monster cable 3 mm to RCA interconnect I had lying around.
-
I can appreciate hooking up the TPA3110 to the ARC preamp to really asses what the little amp can do. When it comes to a combination of amp and preamp that might be out there playing music in a system that is cost effective, then I'd think about a preamp that is not that far off in price from the amplifier. Looking around on eBay, I see some preamps that are in the $50 range. I have no idea about the build or audio quality of these units. Here's some links. Does anyone have information about any of them? Perhaps a suggestion for a decent (or maybe even good) preamp in this price range....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3-6Z4-tube-valve-preamp-amplifier-preamplifier-CLASS-A-transformer-110V-220V-U/291042799167?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D3584147163348854625%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D291041259493%26
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120597413290?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261341656674?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Another way to go would be to build around a stepped attenuator.
-
Okay, now if my 3116 would just show up! I think I should add an LED so I know when the power is on too. I've lost two SLA's by accidentally leaving them on.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91847)
-
Okay, now if my 3116 would just show up! I think I should add an LED so I know when the power is on too. I've lost two SLA's by accidentally leaving them on.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91847)
It looks like you are using the same type of rocker switch I am, but the one I have has an LED "on" light. Mine is blue, but other colors are available. Got it at PE.
-
Those cases look like they were made for the amp! Where did you guys get them? I'd like to pick one or two up for myself. Were the holes for the connectors already cut? I'm going to guess "no".
-
Those cases look like they were made for the amp! Where did you guys get them? I'd like to pick one or two up for myself. Were the holes for the connectors already cut? I'm going to guess "no".
This is a radio shack special "Project Box." $7.99 I think. I bought a step drill as the rocker switch required a 3/4" hole. I couldn't wait to start so I got what I could locally.
Ray
-
Thank you for the info! I think I will be visiting Radio Shack this morning for a last minute present for myself. :P
-
I was able to reduce and almost eliminate the noise problem with my Sure TPA3110 amp. I inserted 33kohm resistors between the signal inputs and signal grounds. My preference would have been to try 47kohm resistors or place a 50k log pot between the RCA inputs and board inputs. Nonetheless, this amp sounds awesome connected to my ARC LS7 line stage preamp and Klipsch Forte II speakers. With the hiss and high frequency glare gone, I can really hear what this amp is capable of delivering. This amp has really good tonality and a large soundstage. It's amazing that I am getting this level of volume from a low powered Class D amp without clipping or any soundstage collapse. I need to do more listening to really assess this amp.
-
I was able to reduce and almost eliminate the noise problem with my Sure TPA3110 amp. I inserted 33kohm resistors between the signal inputs and signal grounds. My preference would have been to try 47kohm resistors or place a 50k log pot between the RCA inputs and board inputs. Nonetheless, this amp sounds awesome connected to my ARC LS7 line stage preamp and Klipsch Forte II speakers. With the hiss and high frequency glare gone, I can really hear what this amp is capable of delivering. This amp has really good tonality and a large soundstage. It's amazing that I am getting this level of volume from a low powered Class D amp without clipping or any soundstage collapse. I need to do more listening to really assess this amp.
:banana piano:
-
I bought the unit with tone controls. I will sell it off for one without. I guess I go in the camp of no tone controls and they don't have a center detent. It will drive me nuts. If I keep it I need to add a delay on power on to avoid the pop. Hit me up if you want it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91897)
-
Question for folks who have or used Sure 3110 board. On the board on the right side of the power connector there is a gnd/vcc connection is that another power connection? I was wondering if we can use 12V battery on that. If yes, assuming that the negative connection from battery needs to go to gnd input while positive needs to go to vcc end.
thx
EDIT: Happy Holidays to everyone
-
Question for folks who have or used Sure 3110 board. On the board on the right side of the power connector there is a gnd/vcc connection is that another power connection? I was wondering if we can use 12V battery on that. If yes, assuming that the negative connection from battery needs to go to gnd input while positive needs to go to vcc end.
thx
EDIT: Happy Holidays to everyone
Don't have one, but I'd say yes to both. Here's a link to a page to download the manual for the amp, if that will help.
http://www.sure-electronics.net/download/index.php?name=AA-AB32231&type=0 (http://www.sure-electronics.net/download/index.php?name=AA-AB32231&type=0)
Mike
-
Question for folks who have or used Sure 3110 board. On the board on the right side of the power connector there is a gnd/vcc connection is that another power connection? I was wondering if we can use 12V battery on that. If yes, assuming that the negative connection from battery needs to go to gnd input while positive needs to go to vcc end.
thx
EDIT: Happy Holidays to everyone
Happy Holidays to all.
You are correct. The optional power terminal block is for those who want to use a DC power connection other than the 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector.
-
Happy Holidays to all.
You are correct. The optional power terminal block is for those who want to use a DC power connection other than the 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector.
Actually that's the terminals I am using with my brick PS. Should I not be doing so?
I am really enjoying this little amp :thumb: I pulled it from service yesterday so I could do more work on the case I built it into. I replaced it with my Parts Express DTA-100A. What a disappointment!! The "Little ass Kicker" sounds so much better even with with 1/10th the power.
-
Merry Christmas. You can use either power connection, but not both at the same time.
For my amp, I am going to install a pair of Panasonic FR 680uF / 25V low ESR electrolytic caps on the power supply rails to enhance dynamic and bass response. These two caps couple the amp to the power supply and provide additional filtering and instantaneous, on-demand current. I am also considering replacing the 1uF SMD coupling caps with either 2.2uF or 3.3uF ceramic SMD coupling caps. A friend gave me a really nice Metcal soldering station with the heated tweezer tips for soldering and desoldering those tiny SMD components without frying them.
I may also use some Belden 88641 plenum cable for connecting the RCA inputs with the board inputs to minimize RFI. The Belden cable is foil-shielded, Teflon-insulated OFC that Jim McShane sells by the foot. I used it in rebuilding a Dynaco SCA-35 integrated amp where I needed it for the phono stage.
-
rhing,
pictures of the modification please :thumb:
-
rhing,
pictures of the modification please :thumb:
Merry Christmas shadowlight!
In the photo below, I used 33kohm resistors, because that's all I had in my stash. Since they are not the optimal value of 47kohms, I only wrapped the leads to hold them in place temporarily, but the best place to solder them into place would be on the circuit board between thru-holes labeled:
CH1 - GND
CH2 - GND
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91930)
I'm getting some Vishay-Dale 47kohm RN60 metal film resistors along with Panasonic FR 680uF / 25V low ESR electrolytic caps for the power supply rails (Panasonic PN EEU-FR1E681L). These parts are available through Digikey and Mouser.
On my makeshift chassis, I will fabricate a front plate using Aluminum angle stock to mount the RCA connectors up front and closer to the PCB inputs to keep the signal wires as short as possible to minimize noise.
-
Merry Christmas Rhing.
Thank you for the pictures.
-
OK, I'll be the slow kid on the back row... what do these resistors do exactly? What is the function of having a high resistance short across the signal path? :scratch:
Scott
-
Basically, I inserted the 33kohm resistors between the signal inputs and grounds as shunts to channel away extraneous noise. In effect, I just created a filter. Anyway, I found some 47kohm PRP 1/4 watt metal film resistors in my parts bin (not sure why I didn't see them before), and put those in. The sonic effect was a shrill quality with an exaggeration of the treble, and of course noise. The lower octaves were rolled off, and the soundstage lost all depth. I then tried some 20kohm PRP resistors and this is much better. It really doesn't seem to be different than the results I obtained with the 33kohm resistors, which were KOA Speer Carbon film resistors. I'll stick with the 20kohm PRP resistors for now.
Perhaps someone with an electrical engineering mind can better explain what I did and present some mathematical explanations. I would if I could, but I don't have the savvy or enough sophisticated tools to characterize the amp's input circuitry. :|
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91989)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91991)
-
The one I posted a pic of has some hiss and on my new/used Omega speakers there is so much treble that I can't even play a record because it accentuates the surface noise and what used to be barely audible pops to the front. Even setting the needle down sounds different. All my digital media is detailed, bright and unlistenable right now. Like an amazing tweeter/mid with the woofer removed and the treble turned up to boot. The speakers should settle down (and are), but sadly I had no idea an amp/speaker combo could be so far off. I even switched this am to an old integrated Yamaha DSP amp. It helped a bit. Man I wanted to use the 3116 with these Omegas.
I'll add some 47kohm resistors when I get home from vacation on several of my chip amps and see if there is any chance of finding a happy marriage with these Omegas.
-
The one I posted a pic of has some hiss and on my new/used Omega speakers there is so much treble that I can't even play a record because it accentuates the surface noise and what used to be barely audible pops to the front. Even setting the needle down sounds different. All my digital media is detailed, bright and unlistenable right now. Like an amazing tweeter/mid with the woofer removed and the treble turned up to boot. The speakers should settle down (and are), but sadly I had no idea an amp/speaker combo could be so far off. I even switched this am to an old integrated Yamaha DSP amp. It helped a bit. Man I wanted to use the 3116 with these Omegas.
I'll add some 47kohm resistors when I get home from vacation on several of my chip amps and see if there is any chance of finding a happy marriage with these Omegas.
I thought your amp had the tone controls. Have you tried using them?
As for the resistor value, you may need to experiment as I did to determine the best values for your system/tastes.
-
Rhing when I turned down the treble it sucked out more than just the unrealistic sound of the cymbals, etc. It sucked out the fullness of the sound. I messed around with the EQ and parametric in Jriver too. Same effect as the tone controls once you affected the brightness to any degree you made it sound flat or thin.
-
That's unfortunate. I really like Omega speakers for their huge sound and high efficiency. I met Louis Chochos at a Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in 2007, and he was one of the nicest people I met at the show.
All the tweaking I've done still hasn't completely eliminated the hiss noise. On the other hand, my TDA7297 Class A/B chip amp is dead silent. My SMSL SA-S1 Tripath TA2020 T-amp is not dead silent, but significantly less noisy than the TPA3110D2. Still, with the little bit of noise I hear, the sound quality of the TPA3110 amp is more pleasing to my ears than either of the other two amps.
-
I finished the case for my "Little Ass Kicker" Connected it temporarily to a laptop in my living room, driving the C&C earlier version of the Pioneer's ($39 shipped). This little low powered amp fills the room with great sound.
(http://i.imgur.com/F8JeAq3l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DGAE0Fol.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0qON5x6l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pNfkwB9l.jpg)
-
lacro,
Very beautiful work there. Thanks for sharing your photos. Which caps did you put on the power supply? They look like they might be 2,200uF caps or something else significantly higher in value than the stock 220uF power supply caps.
I'm considering the Pioneer speakers for my office, and it's good to know that the TPA3110 has enough power to drive them.
-
lacro,
Very beautiful work there. Thanks for sharing your photos. Which caps did you put on the power supply? They look like they might be 2,200uF caps or something else significantly higher in value than the stock 220uF power supply caps.
I'm considering the Pioneer speakers for my office, and it's good to know that the TPA3110 has enough power to drive them.
The higher PS cap values improve low end response for a more fuller sound in my experience. Others have reported the same. I've also found PS caps to have a more tonal impact than say input cap mods, etc. I prefer Nichicon Muse myself for clean and clear and microdynamics. Elna Silmics are very warm. It's easy to try out on the 3110 board since it has surface pads making it very simple to solder and desolder. And PS caps are so inexpensive. Worth trying out.
-
What capacitance value do you recommend?
The lead spacing for the power supply caps is 3.5mm. The largest radial-leaded electrolytic cap size with a 3.5mm lead is 680uF / 25V if I get Panasonic FR caps. The Nichicon Muse KZ and Elna Silmic II caps in larger values are only available with 5mm lead spacing. Are you bending the leads to fit the thru-hole spacing, or are you using the SMD pads to mount the Nichicon caps? With having to bend the capacitor leads to fit either the smaller thru-hole spacing or the SMD pads, it seems like there would be some parts of the leads that are susceptible to picking up RFI from the chip.
-
What capacitance value do you recommend?
The lead spacing for the power supply caps is 3.5mm. The largest radial-leaded electrolytic cap size with a 3.5mm lead is 680uF / 25V if I get Panasonic FR caps. The Nichicon Muse KZ and Elna Silmic II caps in larger values are only available with 5mm lead spacing. Are you bending the leads to fit the thru-hole spacing, or are you using the SMD pads to mount the Nichicon caps? With having to bend the capacitor leads to fit either the smaller thru-hole spacing or the SMD pads, it seems like there would be some parts of the leads that are susceptible to picking up RFI from the chip.
I cut the leads as short as I can get then bend them to fit SMD pads. Hm, I never had RFI problems with my 3110 when replacing the caps. The leads are pretty short once u cut them and bend. Can't imagine 1/4in or less leads wreaking RFI havoc. No recommended value per se. I think I used 1500uf, some use higher. I think 1000uf would be fine.
-
lacro,
Very beautiful work there. Thanks for sharing your photos. Which caps did you put on the power supply? They look like they might be 2,200uF caps or something else significantly higher in value than the stock 220uF power supply caps.
I'm considering the Pioneer speakers for my office, and it's good to know that the TPA3110 has enough power to drive them.
Thanks for complement, but I am just a first timer with NO electronics knowledge that doesn't really belong here :nono: I just assembled this with a bunch of scraps, and a $1.79 wooden box I got at A.C. Moore. The caps are these: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EEU-FM1E222L/P12384-ND/613745 This was my first time desoldering/soldering on a board.
wushuliu suggested a cap swap from stock which was quickly noticeable in SQ :thumb: The 5MM lead spacing was not a problem as the difference between 3.5MM and 5MM is only about 1/16" total. That's not difficult to bend, and make the leads almost as short as the stock caps. Remember this is my very first soldering job on a board :duh: However, it was much easier than I thought..
I have tried this amp so far with my Paradigm Atoms, the Pioneer's, and right now I am listening to my XL-S Encores powered by this little amp. I think you will be surprised it will drive the Pioneer's with authority even though they are not that efficient, and should need more power.
I put the Pioneer's which were not even broken in, on stands, and moved them into the room away from any wall. My living room is 16x24, and these little speakers, and amp filled the room with wonderful sound. 80db SPL at 15' with peaks to 85db. This was at 50% volume.
My wife didn't like it when I removed the little system. To her it sounded better than her floor standers :roll: Good thing I ordered another 3110 from PE. I may even build it into the Pioneers :scratch:
It's driving these right now...
http://i.imgur.com/4waDmZ3l.jpg
-
That's unfortunate. I really like Omega speakers for their huge sound and high efficiency. I met Louis Chochos at a Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in 2007, and he was one of the nicest people I met at the show.
All the tweaking I've done still hasn't completely eliminated the hiss noise. On the other hand, my TDA7297 Class A/B chip amp is dead silent. My SMSL SA-S1 Tripath TA2020 T-amp is not dead silent, but significantly less noisy than the TPA3110D2. Still, with the little bit of noise I hear, the sound quality of the TPA3110 amp is more pleasing to my ears than either of the other two amps.
Just a couple more hours after posting they were producing more
mid bass already. I may spring for the RS5 drivers. Thanks Rhing for all the R&D and sharing. Really helps a greenie like me and gives me confidence to try more things.
-
There's no shame in any DIY project. I got started in DIY audio when the first Sonic Impact T-amps were the rage. Low voltage Class D amps are great for first-time DIYers as 12V DC is not lethal and if you screw up, the amps are affordable. On top of that, the parts count is relatively low and you have more options for enclosures since these amps don't radiate much heat, if any.
-
1-1.5k caps are fine, but you'll want enough to get 8-12k total per voltage supply. Meaning probably not on board. It's good to keep them near the same or the same uf to prevent frequency ringing.
For input caps 50/r = uf . So if the input resistance of the chip is 25, 2uf would be good. I'm on my phone so i can't look the amp chip up.
For input caps you want higher impedence, power supply lower; generally.
My use of Nichicon Muse ES, two caps one in reverse orientation, is probably impossible to beat for the money.
-
wushuliu suggested a cap swap from stock which was quickly noticeable in SQ :thumb: The 5MM lead spacing was not a problem as the difference between 3.5MM and 5MM is only about 1/16" total. That's not difficult to bend, and make the leads almost as short as the stock caps. Remember this is my very first soldering job on a board :duh: However, it was much easier than I thought.
I happened to have a few Panasonic FM 1,500uF / 25V in my parts bin, and I guess I was worried about nothing with the lead spacing. These caps have 5mm lead spacing and they fit fine in the thru-holes. The TI datasheet mentions that low ESR capacitors should be used, and the Panasonic FMs fit this description. What's interesting is that the low level noise has been decreasing. I'm not sure why this is the case, but I took off those 33kohm resistors and heard no changes. The Panasonic caps are still burning in. I'll share my listening impressions later. Thanks for the help guys.
-
What happens if you get something like Nichicon UHW1V222MHD (2200uf, 35V) with 5mm spacing work? Just trying to understand what happens when you change stuff around. I am going to get some 2200uf like lacro mention also.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UHW1V222MHD/493-6871-ND/3664337
-
What happens if you get something like Nichicon UHW1V222MHD (2200uf, 35V) with 5mm spacing work? Just trying to understand what happens when you change stuff around. I am going to get some 2200uf like lacro mention also.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UHW1V222MHD/493-6871-ND/3664337
Not sure 2200uf is the right value, most are using 1000-1500uf. Like wushuliu said, it's pretty easy to swap the caps around trying different ones. I would listen to other members with real electronics know how. My cap choice was just a nubee playing around, but it sure sounds better to my ears than the stock caps, YMMV. On my next board I will try something different to compare.
BTW/ while writing this I am smiling :) listening to this amazing little amp that was the price of a lunch.... I think I may even buy Texas Instruments stock.
-
Lacro,
I am a newbie with swapping parts out and replacing them with something else. The only diy work that i have done is building the class-d amp (the long thread) but that was easy since all i needed to do was hook up thing and little bit of soldering :) . I taking a step forward with the 3110 and 3116 boards.
-
I'm sure the Panasonic FM 2,200uF / 25V caps would be fine. The Panasonic FM caps I installed earlier today are still burning in, but I can already hear a huge difference with this Sure amp. Interestingly, the noise that was annoying me when I first got this amp has significantly decreased to the point where I removed those 33kohm resistors. I don't need them anymore. The bass is significantly deeper and tighter. The soundstage has grown in all three dimensions. I am really impressed with the dynamic range and detail too. Basically, the only mod/tweak that is on the amp is the power supply cap swap. I also think moving the RCA connectors closer to the board's inputs helped too. I wish I did this cap swap from the beginning, and I could have avoided the anxiety over the noise.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92118)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92119)
-
Smaller caps discharge quicker. They're rather effective, where as giant caps won't be except in lower frequency extension. That is when comparing lower to moderate priced capacitors. You can spend $119 a cap or whatever, and get similar performance from a 50kuf to a 1kuf.
It's easier to just use multiple caps to get very low ESR, and keep them small and fast. (define small, I know, you're choice, play around and see what you like?)
As noted here by another member, what I'm talking about is real;
Here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120889.0) . You'll notice some skeptics, people suggesting more complicated (and to my ears often inherently bad sounding) filtration ideas, but at the very end the real skeptic tried it out and now is a total convert.
It's just the behavior of class D, why fight it?
-
Smaller caps discharge quicker. They're rather effective, where as giant caps won't be except in lower frequency extension. That is when comparing lower to moderate priced capacitors. You can spend $119 a cap or whatever, and get similar performance from a 50kuf to a 1kuf.
It's easier to just use multiple caps to get very low ESR, and keep them small and fast. (define small, I know, you're choice, play around and see what you like?)
As noted here by another member, what I'm talking about is real;
Here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120889.0) . You'll notice some skeptics, people suggesting more complicated (and to my ears often inherently bad sounding) filtration ideas, but at the very end the real skeptic tried it out and now is a total convert.
It's just the behavior of class D, why fight it?
I don't know. My experience with several TPA amps has been that unlike some other Class D once you beef up the supply caps a bit the amp doesn't really respond to other mods as much, be it input caps or power supply across rails, etc. There might be some refinement but overall the presentation is consistent. It is worth exploring to be sure but the TPA amps are the rare case for me where all the modding doesn't really pay off as much. YMMV.
-
The higher PS cap values improve low end response for a more fuller sound in my experience. Others have reported the same. I've also found PS caps to have a more tonal impact than say input cap mods, etc. I prefer Nichicon Muse myself for clean and clear and microdynamics. Elna Silmics are very warm. It's easy to try out on the 3110 board since it has surface pads making it very simple to solder and desolder. And PS caps are so inexpensive. Worth trying out.
I came across this: "Comparing electrolytic capacitors - May 2008, by Eric Juaneda"
http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html
Don't know if it's any help for what we are doing here, but it does have some interesting listening test diagrams for the different caps tested.
-
How do companies like Millenia "tune" these chips? I suppose just like what were all trying to do here except with a lot more experience, and test equipment (and potentially a degree in the field).
I wonder how I could tune mine for my speakers? It is amazing how "hot" or bright the treble is on my speakers with these amps. I will start with the resistors on the RCA's first, but what other mods do you think would warm up the highs? Of course this mod would be bad on most of my other speakers, but I want to avoid having to buy an expensive amp if I can tune a chip amp for a few dollars in caps and resistors, etc.
ON to amp building school I think.
-
How do companies like Millenia "tune" these chips? I suppose just like what were all trying to do here except with a lot more experience, and test equipment (and potentially a degree in the field).
I wonder how I could tune mine for my speakers? It is amazing how "hot" or bright the treble is on my speakers with these amps. I will start with the resistors on the RCA's first, but what other mods do you think would warm up the highs? Of course this mod would be bad on most of my other speakers, but I want to avoid having to buy an expensive amp if I can tune a chip amp for a few dollars in caps and resistors, etc.
ON to amp building school I think.
What speakers are they?
Hard to say since you're using the amp w/ tone controls and most folks use the boards without. The tone controls have a poor quality opamp so that might be the culprit. Also it is possible that there is an impedance matching issue and the output filter needs to be modified to accommodate. TBI uses an opamp based buffer, other than that they pretty much use the stock TI design I think, not sure.
-
My local electronics store only had NTE capacitors. Are they worth putting in the TPA 3110?
-
My local electronics store only had NTE capacitors. Are they worth putting in the TPA 3110?
I doubt it would be a step up, if not a step down. You can find great electrolytics from Mouser, Digikey, Ebay, Hndme.com, etc. If you're not in the U.S. then ebay will certainly have many options. I would avoid the NTE.
-
I doubt it would be a step up, if not a step down. You can find great electrolytics from Mouser, Digikey, Ebay, Hndme.com, etc. If you're not in the U.S. then ebay will certainly have many options. I would avoid the NTE.
Agreed. While you're at it, get some decent speaker binding posts and RCA jacks. Cheap connectors can kill sound quality as well. Mouser and Digikey carry Pomona 3770-x Gold-plated Tellurium Copper binding posts. I really don't know of any better binding posts for the money.
-
I don't know. My experience with several TPA amps has been that unlike some other Class D once you beef up the supply caps a bit the amp doesn't really respond to other mods as much, be it input caps or power supply across rails, etc. There might be some refinement but overall the presentation is consistent. It is worth exploring to be sure but the TPA amps are the rare case for me where all the modding doesn't really pay off as much. YMMV.
Yes but then the question is are the caps correcting a lot of issues, and so the other mods don't work? or are the other mods more valuable and the power supply caps are screwing up their benefits?
I'm pretty sure it's not the ladder.
-
What speakers are they?
Hard to say since you're using the amp w/ tone controls and most folks use the boards without. The tone controls have a poor quality opamp so that might be the culprit. Also it is possible that there is an impedance matching issue and the output filter needs to be modified to accommodate. TBI uses an opamp based buffer, other than that they pretty much use the stock TI design I think, not sure.
I just ordered another one without the tone controls, mostly for my Lores. But I will try to mod one for the Omegas with hemp drivers.
-
I just ordered another one without the tone controls, mostly for my Lores. But I will try to mod one for the Omegas with hemp drivers.
Which board did you order?
-
Which board did you order?
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=171192126808
-
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=171192126808
FYI, that item number links to a seller with zero feedback. May be better to stick with reputable sellers like 'along1986090' and 'szgracelee'.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembled-TPA3116-store-Power-amplifier-board-50W-50W-/400560249079?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d434058f7
-
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=171192126808
Are you going to keep the volume pot? Are there any boards without it?
-
Are you going to keep the volume pot? Are there any boards without it?
I plan on maxing the volume pot and using my pre amplifier.
-
I plan on maxing the volume pot and using my pre amplifier.
I order the blue board via buychina.com (http://www.buychina.com/items/suxumosklkh) website which does not have any volume pot. Anyone have any recommendation for a remote control for the board. Want to try it as a straight amp first with a preamp.
(http://img03.taobaocdn.com/bao/uploaded/i3/15461031108365371/T1nmBAFbBhXXXXXXXX_!!0-item_pic.jpg)
-
I order the blue board via buychina.com (http://www.buychina.com/items/suxumosklkh) website which does not have any volume pot. Anyone have any recommendation for a remote control for the board. Want to try it as a straight amp first with a preamp.
Hm, that board has some extra stuff going that I don't recognize from the TI datasheet. Can't tell if it's some kind of additional power filtration or what. Looks like they are using fake Oscons for the PS caps too. On the upside they are using the recommended output filter of 10uh/.68uf from TI, unlike the other boards that do 22uh/.56uf.
What do you mean by remote control?
-
Hm, that board has some extra stuff going that I don't recognize from the TI datasheet. Can't tell if it's some kind of additional power filtration or what. Looks like they are using fake Oscons for the PS caps too. On the upside they are using the recommended output filter of 10uh/.68uf from TI, unlike the other boards that do 22uh/.56uf.
What do you mean by remote control?
Thinking about ordering the YJ with volume control but want to replace the volume control with a remote volume control.
Also, can you point out the extra stuff installed on the board.
-
Thinking about ordering the YJ with volume control but want to replace the volume control with a remote volume control.
Also, can you point out the extra stuff installed on the board.
shadowlight,
Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp. Once I moved the RCA connectors closer to the board inputs, and installed the new Panasonic FM caps in the power supply, this amp has been steadily opening up to produce incredible sound. I'm listening to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it does so well with timbre. Earlier, I played an RCA Living Stereo SACD of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" and the soundstage and crescendos were reproduced with incredible fidelity. Strings and brass sounded so clear without any stridency. I've even jammed to Van Halen's first album, and it just seems like this amp is unfazed with anything I play. The tonality is good and because I only had to replace the power supply caps as mods, this represents an outstanding value. Until someone on diyAudio.com comes out with a quality PCB group buy, I'm going to be completely satisfied with this amp fed by my ARC LS7.
I have a classic Dynaco Stereo 35 with Dave Gillespie's Enhanced Fixed Bias which yields incredible headroom from a great tube amplifier, and this modest Sure amp can hang with the Dynaco in that department. Now the tube bloom and EL84 tone of the Dynaco amp can't be touched by the Sure amp, but my Dynaco cost a whole lot more in terms of money and elbow grease.
I may have to bring this little Class D gem to the next San Francisco Tube Users Group meeting. We meet at the Randall Museum and use a pair of Klipsch Chorus speakers in a small auditorium.
-
shadowlight,
Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp.
Agreed.
-
shadowlight,
Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp. Once I moved the RCA connectors closer to the board inputs, and installed the new Panasonic FM caps in the power supply, this amp has been steadily opening up to produce incredible sound. I'm listening to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it does so well with timbre. Earlier, I played an RCA Living Stereo SACD of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" and the soundstage and crescendos were reproduced with incredible fidelity. Strings and brass sounded so clear without any stridency. I've even jammed to Van Halen's first album, and it just seems like this amp is unfazed with anything I play. The tonality is good and because I only had to replace the power supply caps as mods, this represents an outstanding value. Until someone on diyAudio.com comes out with a quality PCB group buy, I'm going to be completely satisfied with this amp fed by my ARC LS7.
I have a classic Dynaco Stereo 35 with Dave Gillespie's Enhanced Fixed Bias which yields incredible headroom from a great tube amplifier, and this modest Sure amp can hang with the Dynaco in that department. Now the tube bloom and EL84 tone of the Dynaco amp can't be touched by the Sure amp, but my Dynaco cost a whole lot more in terms of money and elbow grease.
I may have to bring this little Class D gem to the next San Francisco Tube Users Group meeting. We meet at the Randall Museum and use a pair of Klipsch Chorus speakers in a small auditorium.
Thx. I have been playing the Sure board with a IBM Thinkpad 16V adapter and a 12V battery. Still trying to figure out which one I like best.
-
For those of us who cannot DIY, who makes complete amps with these new chips, just TBI?
-
For those of us who cannot DIY, who makes complete amps with these new chips, just TBI?
Yep.
-
For those of us who cannot DIY, who makes complete amps with these new chips, just TBI?
Actually the Sure TPA 3110 is pretty much plug-n-play. Not much DYI involved. It may not be contained in a box, but the Power jack is on the board (2.1 or 2.5 not sure which one). The stereo input is an 1/8" jack, and if you can turn a screwdriver the screw type speaker terminals are also on the board.
Swapping the PS caps is not essential to get great sound right from the start, but it does make a difference. Soo... for $10 you can see/hear what we are talking about without using a soldering iron, a drill, a saw, etc. Just plug-n-play and enjoy :thumb:
-
Any recommendation on places to buy modular case. I used to have a link but lost it. Went to Radio Shack and looked at the project boxes and they were cheap plastic.
-
Any recommendation on places to buy modular case. I used to have a link but lost it. Went to Radio Shack and looked at the project boxes and they were cheap plastic.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-05-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-AMP-case-Preamp-box-DIY-BOX-PSU-chassis-/121138713204?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c346e1274 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-05-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-AMP-case-Preamp-box-DIY-BOX-PSU-chassis-/121138713204?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c346e1274)
-
Any recommendation on places to buy modular case. I used to have a link but lost it. Went to Radio Shack and looked at the project boxes and they were cheap plastic.
I highly recommend the split body Aluminum enclosures from Context Engineering. They're reasonably priced compared to buying one from China via eBay and paying for shipping. The quality is very high.
http://www.sanjosescientific.com/servlet/the-PRINTED-CIRCUIT-BOARD-ENCLOSURES--PCB-BOXES/Categories (http://www.sanjosescientific.com/servlet/the-PRINTED-CIRCUIT-BOARD-ENCLOSURES--PCB-BOXES/Categories)
I used one for my TDA7297 amp build, and it turned out very nicely. I am starting a build of a TPA3110D2 amp in a similar enclosure.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91024)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91026)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91070)
You will also need the following tools to drill the holes for your connectors and volume pot/stepped attenuator:
- Center punch
- Good 12V-18V cordless drill, drill bit set and a stepped drill bit
- A good de-burring tool is really handy to get really clean holes
- A reamer tool is also good for making slightly larger openings without overdoing it with a drill
I also have a nice Ryobi table top drill press that I purchased for $45 through Craigslist, but a steady hand with a powerful hand drill works well with 1/16-3/32" thick Aluminum. The drill press is really handy for really precise drilling through thick wall materials.
-
Those case's look similar to the ones I had the link for.
Thx
-
For those who don't have the tools to drill here are some other options. A little more expensive and the metal is not as thick, but for what you get it's a great price. Plus roomy enough to accommodate other things like preamp or larger amps.
At some point I'll get a couple of these, just to make life easier. My enclosure skills are terrible. This seller has lots of other enclosures as well and a good rep. Cheap and cheerful diy candy store. Imagine the TPA3110 in the last one!
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/32654382/T2EtX.XfXXXXXXXXXX_!!32654382.jpg)
(http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/32654382/T2Fs8.Xe8XXXXXXXXX_!!32654382.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-2107-aluminum-power-amplifier-enclosure-chassis-AMP-box-with-heatsink-/121138703239?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c346deb87
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Full-aluminum-mini-Power-amplifier-Case-Box-Diy-Amp-enclosure-/00/s/NjY3WDg4OQ==/$(KGrHqF,!nkE9c1fWn,6BPhRzU6uEw~~60_57.JPG)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-aluminum-mini-Power-amplifier-Case-Box-Diy-Amp-enclosure-/110859346871?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item19cfbb63b7
(http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/32654382/T29TshXlJXXXXXXXXX_!!32654382.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2412B-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-AMP-case-power-amplifier-box-chassis-/400523693385?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d41128d49
-
Found the link for the enclosure that I had - http://www.gkphotonics.com/gk8.html (http://www.gkphotonics.com/gk8.html) and their ebay store (http://stores.ebay.com/gkphotonics?_trksid=p2047675.l2563)
(http://www.gkphotonics.com/images/gk8.jpg)
-
What size are the supply caps on the Sure TPA3110?
-
What size are the supply caps on the Sure TPA3110?
I think 220uf.
-
For those looking to get more power and/or have less efficient speakers, there is a board available for 100w mono use as well. Usable down to 2ohms! This is probably the best looking board of the bunch in terms of build quality and layout. I was waiting to read some feedback on it before recommending. Mine has not arrived yet. Someone just posted very positive thoughts on it at diyaudio. It's a whopping $10 more. Breaking the bank at $30 :lol:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-or-1x100W-Stereo-or-Full-PBTL-/161186376340?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258774ea94
-
Question for folks who are more familiar with the modding. Why/When would you use a 35V power supply cap instead of the 25v. The reason for the question is that on the TDA7293 thread folks were talking about replacing the 25V cap with 35V, while in this thread folks are sticking with 25V. From the reading it seems that TDA7293 has ability to use 24V power supply which means that using 25V ps cap does not leave much room.
Thx and Happy New Year
-
Question for folks who are more familiar with the modding. Why/When would you use a 35V power supply cap instead of the 25v. The reason for the question is that on the TDA7293 thread folks were talking about replacing the 25V cap with 35V, while in this thread folks are sticking with 25V. From the reading it seems that TDA7293 has ability to use 24V power supply which means that using 25V ps cap does not leave much room.
Thx and Happy New Year
The TPA sweet spot is in the 12-21v range, so the 25v works fine. So far consensus is the TPA does not sound quite as good at 24v. Increasing voltage does potentially reduce ESR so if replacing PS caps, using higher voltage may be beneficial.
-
Wushuilu, figures I ordered a 3116 with the unwanted volume pot a few days ago without seeing this one.
Ray
-
Wushuilu, figures I ordered a 3116 with the unwanted volume pot a few days ago without seeing this one.
Ray
Lol, it can be overwhelming sorting through all the boards/options.
-
The TPA sweet spot is in the 12-21v range, so the 25v works fine. So far consensus is the TPA does not sound quite as good at 24v. Increasing voltage does potentially reduce ESR so if replacing PS caps, using higher voltage may be beneficial.
So replacing the 25V on the TPA board with 35V is ok to do. Similar question about 1500uf v/s 2200uf. I order both Panasonic FM and FR series caps yesterday in various combination, 25V (1500uf, 2200uf) and 35V (1500uf, 2200uf). Not sure which is better but the numbers on the FR looked better :-)
-
What size are the supply caps on the Sure TPA3110?
(http://i.imgur.com/Rg2ATOFl.jpg)
-
So replacing the 25V on the TPA board with 35V is ok to do. Similar question about 1500uf v/s 2200uf. I order both Panasonic FM and FR series caps yesterday in various combination, 25V (1500uf, 2200uf) and 35V (1500uf, 2200uf). Not sure which is better but the numbers on the FR looked better :-)
That's fine to use 35V vs. 25V caps. With electrolytic caps, I generally use a voltage rating just above what I think my maximum voltage could ever be. As for Panasonic FM vs. FR, they're very similar with the FR series representing Panasonic's newest low ESR series Aluminum electrolytic caps. These should work well for amplifier power supply applications.
For those looking to get more power and/or have less efficient speakers, there is a board available for 100w mono use as well. Usable down to 2ohms! This is probably the best looking board of the bunch in terms of build quality and layout. I was waiting to read some feedback on it before recommending. Mine has not arrived yet. Someone just posted very positive thoughts on it at diyaudio. It's a whopping $10 more. Breaking the bank at $30 :lol:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-or-1x100W-Stereo-or-Full-PBTL-/161186376340?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258774ea94
Thanks for the heads-up on these boards. They look nice, but like you, I wanted to wait and see what the verdict was on these boards. I think they're going fast.
-
Another cheap enclosure option for those without drilling tools:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Amplifier-DIY-Suite-Volume-Control-IC-Audio-Case-Enclosure-Breadboard-PC-/110932772470?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item19d41bc676
-
Thanks for the heads-up on these boards. They look nice, but like you, I wanted to wait and see what the verdict was on these boards. I think they're going fast.
Yes, they're starting to take off now. Thanks for sharing your observations with these amps.
-
I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?
This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?
I see this warning that comes with the TPA3110 Sure amp instructions. Does it mean a pre-amp should not be used at all??:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf
(http://i.imgur.com/AwFUhrgl.jpg)
If this should really be a new thread, please move it.
-
I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?
This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?
I see this warning that comes with the TPA3110 Sure amp instructions. Does it mean a pre-amp should not be used at all??:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf
(http://i.imgur.com/AwFUhrgl.jpg)
If this should really be a new thread, please move it.
That's a strange warning. You can ignore it. My guess is the 3110 is set to 32 or 36db gain. So preamps with gain may need some care, but then just follow Warning 4. These direct from China components often come with poorly worded instructions, so just ignore it.
-
That's a strange warning. You can ignore it. My guess is the 3110 is set to 32 or 36db gain. So preamps with gain may need some care, but then just follow Warning 4. These direct from China components often come with poorly worded instructions, so just ignore it.
How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that? On the eval board picture on TI's website there are jumpers for gain0 and gain1 to set the gain. Will have to take a look at the sure board again to see if something similar exists.
-
How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that?
According to the specs it has 26db gain:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf
-
According to the specs it has 26db gain:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf
Then you can completely ignore the warning. Have no idea what they're trying to say.
@shadowlight. You change some resistors. However the Sure smd resistors are pretty darn small so unless you're real good with a solder iron you're stuck with the 26. No jumpers on there. I personally prefer the 36db gain for my setup and swapped the resistors on the 3116 board, which is easier to work on.
-
Then you can completely ignore the warning. Have no idea what they're trying to say.
@shadowlight. You change some resistors. However the Sure smd resistors are pretty darn small so unless you're real good with a solder iron you're stuck with the 26. No jumpers on there. I personally prefer the 36db gain for my setup and swapped the resistors on the 3116 board, which is easier to work on.
Just looked at the manual - http://www.sure-electronics.net/download/AA-AB32231_Ver1.0_EN.pdf and the gain is set to 26db and the input impedance is set to 30Kohm. I can leave with that. Would have liked the input impedance to be something higher but not willing to muck around with smd parts to switch the gain to 20db which will raise the input impedance to 60K.
-
How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that? On the eval board picture on TI's website there are jumpers for gain0 and gain1 to set the gain. Will have to take a look at the sure board again to see if something similar exists.
I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.
I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?
This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?
Section 2.6 of the Sure Electronics manual recommends that if a volume control (potentiometer or stepped attenuator) is used, it should be 50kohm. For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience. I recommend tinning the pins first and removing any excess solder with a solder sucking tool. You will need a "third hand" tool to properly position the wire on each pin to make good physical contact before soldering.
I usually use Teflon tubing to insulate the joint and serve as a strain relief on the soldered joints, but heat shrink is also good for this too.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92294)
-
I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.
I have been using the Dodd Audio preamp with the board and I am enjoying what I am hearing.
-
For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience.
Lol, and now for the wushuliu butterfinger/lazy ebay rec for pots:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMT-Resistor-Step-Attenuator-50K-Volume-Control-/220975033985?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3373236e81
You are a far better solder slinger than I. I got those Panasonics a few years and they were a PITA to work with due to tight pin spacing. But they do sound terrific. High quality, especially for the cost. I've gotten better since then. I should give them another go. Can't beat the price/performance ratio.
-
I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.
Section 2.6 of the Sure Electronics manual recommends that if a volume control (potentiometer or stepped attenuator) is used, it should be 50kohm. For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience. I recommend tinning the pins first and removing any excess solder with a solder sucking tool. You will need a "third hand" tool to properly position the wire on each pin to make good physical contact before soldering.
I usually use Teflon tubing to insulate the joint and serve as a strain relief on the soldered joints, but heat shrink is also good for this too.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92294)
Thanks for the suggestion...
I guess that is truly Cheap and Cheerful :thumb: I was looking for a pre-amp solution, but I should give this a try as well. If this pot sounds pretty good, I do need more soldering experience. I wasn't thinking about getting it with 2mm spacing :roll: However, it's cheap enough to get a couple, and try it! What size wire is needed? Could I strip out the wires from Cat 5 cable? Are the 2 outside pins not used?
Still would like C&C pre-amp suggestions...
-
There are stepped attenuators on Ebay that have legs to solder onto, not just pads. They're the same thing, just with legs.
-
Thanks for the suggestion...
I guess that is truly Cheap and Cheerful :thumb: I was looking for a pre-amp solution, but I should give this a try as well. If this pot sounds pretty good, I do need more soldering experience. I wasn't thinking about getting it with 2mm spacing :roll: However, it's cheap enough to get a couple, and try it! What size wire is needed? Could I strip out the wires from Cat 5 cable? Are the 2 outside pins not used?
Still would like C&C pre-amp suggestions...
I think a separate thread is a good idea, but here's my vote given your budget:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-Dependant-Resistor-3-input-Preamp-Kit-/291043290543?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item43c3882daf
they have a cheaper single input version as well.
Also
http://www.firstwatt.com/b1.html
https://www.passdiy.com/store
-
For C&C Preamp - I am thinking about getting the Aikido 6SN7 (http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/paraikocster.html) preamp and making an integrated amp/preamp. The other option is checking in with Gary Dodd (depending on how his health is doing) and see if he still has the DIY buffer kit.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/glass-ware/aikido-octal-stereo-pcb-3.gif)
-
For C&C Preamp - I am thinking about getting the Aikido 6SN7 (http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/paraikocster.html) preamp and making an integrated amp/preamp. The other option is checking in with Gary Dodd (depending on how his health is doing) and see if he still has the DIY buffer kit.
(http://ep.yimg.com/ay/glass-ware/aikido-octal-stereo-pcb-3.gif)
Aikidos are nice. Just be mindful of the gain matching.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/pNfkwB9l.jpg)
In the above picture, could one solder a 2200uf cap to the GRD | VCC holes, and solder the battery or power supply wires directly to the cap (from the bottom)? The 2200uf cap would fully charge, then supply the stock 220uf caps as needed.
Or is that a dumb idea. :oops:
Mike
-
That is not a dumb idea. Perhaps instead, you could solder a screw terminal block at the DC power input and feed your power supply wires along with the leads of a 2,200uF / 25V cap ("+" to "+" and "-" to "-"). This way, you'll have the ability to test different caps and levels of capacitance to get the sound quality you want. I would still replace the stock 220uF / 25V power supply caps with better 1,000 to 1,500uF / 25V low ESR caps. You want really good, low ESR caps as close to the amplifier chip as possible.
-
Just to chime in here, I've been investigating these chips and I picked up a Sure TPA3110 amp board and a Yuanjing TPA3116 board.
I tried the Sure TPA3110 amp board at my desktop, and found that Sure's omission of output filter inductors caused the TPA3110 board to turn my speaker wires into powerful RF noise antennas, which interfered with my wireless mouse and keyboard when the amp was played at levels above quiet background music. Even though TI uses the term "Filter-Free" for these amp chips, they do recommend having a ferrite bead placed on each output lead (or that PCB-mounted ferrite beads be used to achieve the same thing).
I notice a lot of these TPA3110-based DIY amps don't have any sort of filtering on the outputs. Have any of you noticed any ill effects from RFI emissions?
-
None yet, but I wouldn't be surprised with the amp out in the open. I did try to keep the signal paths and speaker cable lengths minimized. With my Klipsch Forte IIs I have not noticed any interference issues. I did have a problem when I had AT&T's GSM wireless service a while back. My phone would emit signals that would come through the speakers. It was annoying.
Do you have any interference problems with the Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amplifier?
-
That is not a dumb idea. Perhaps instead, you could solder a screw terminal block at the DC power input and feed your power supply wires along with the leads of a 2,200uF / 25V cap ("+" to "+" and "-" to "-"). This way, you'll have the ability to test different caps and levels of capacitance to get the sound quality you want. I would still replace the stock 220uF / 25V power supply caps with better 1,000 to 1,500uF / 25V low ESR caps. You want really good, low ESR caps as close to the amplifier chip as possible.
For grins, I took a Panasonic 2200uF 35V electrolytic cap and soldered it across J6 on my Sure TPA3110 board. This extra reservoir capacitance seems to have done a lot for bass dynamics. It no longer sounds like a "low-power" amp even when playing bombastic film scores through my moderately low-eff desktop speakers (W4-1052 full range with contour filters). I'm using the wall-wart SMPS from my DTA-1 to power the TPA3110 board, and I think the sound surpasses that of the DTA-1. Even though it's still a very 'literal' sounding amp as most TI amp chips are (which I like), without too much in the way of added sweeteners, it's still very low-distortion, and has a ton of grunt with this added capacitance. This goes to show how dependent these amps are on a good stiffened power supply. I found a FSP Group 40W 12V supply in a junk bin at work that I'm going to bring home to use with this board to make sure it's never wanting for current.
My ferrite beads are on the way. I will report back. Hopefully these work - it will be nice to have a working Class-D amplifier with no inductors in the output filter to saturate. I read about these inductors in output filters commonly being undersized for the task.
-
For grins, I took a Panasonic 2200uF 35V electrolytic cap and soldered it across J6 on my Sure TPA3110 board. This extra reservoir capacitance seems to have done a lot for bass dynamics. It no longer sounds like a "low-power" amp even when playing bombastic film scores through my moderately low-eff desktop speakers (W4-1052 full range with contour filters). I'm using the wall-wart SMPS from my DTA-1 to power the TPA3110 board, and I think the sound surpasses that of the DTA-1. Even though it's still a very 'literal' sounding amp as most TI amp chips are (which I like), without too much in the way of added sweeteners, it's still very low-distortion, and has a ton of grunt with this added capacitance. This goes to show how dependent these amps are on a good stiffened power supply. I found a FSP Group 40W 12V supply in a junk bin at work that I'm going to bring home to use with this board to make sure it's never wanting for current.
My ferrite beads are on the way. I will report back. Hopefully these work - it will be nice to have a working Class-D amplifier with no inductors in the output filter to saturate. I read about these inductors in output filters commonly being undersized for the task.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the additional off-board cap. Salis Audio keeps preaching the virtues of adding additional capacitance off-board. I should have added some 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM caps to my last Digikey order. :duh:
As for the Ferrite beads, please keep us posted on your results. I wonder if your speaker wires are too long and positioned in a place where they can easily pick-up interference. Also, have you tried twisting the + and - pair from the amp to the speakers?
I forgot to mention that using a different outlet for my 110W SMPS powering the TPA3110 amp versus the multi-outlet strip where my line stage preamp and rest of my system is plugged helped reduce noise.
However, it's cheap enough to get a couple, and try it! What size wire is needed? Could I strip out the wires from Cat 5 cable? Are the 2 outside pins not used?
The Cat 5 cable wire should be okay. Hopefully, you have plenum grade wire with Teflon insulation. Anything like 22AWG solid core and smaller should be fine. Again, you really need a third-hand tool to properly solder wires to the Panasonic volume pot. On mine, I wrapped masking tape around one of the jaw pairs to keep the teeth from cutting or damaging objects like small wires. Since I have to closely look at my work when working with small parts, I always wear safety glasses like the 3M glasses sold at Home Depot.
Another trick is to use needle nose pliers and bend the volume pot leads that get connected to the amp inputs so that they are straight and leave the others in their bent configuration. This way, you add a little more working space between leads. You can do something similar with alternating "straightened" leads.
The two outside pins you are referring to are metal snap-in mounts, not signal connection pins. You would have to rely on tightening the nut on the threaded bushing to solidly mount the volume pot to a faceplate.
-
Rich wait till you get some power conditioning...
SMPS's add noise not only to what it powers, but to the rest of your equipment. SMPS's and small transformer equiped things do this. But Using CMC/DMC's reduces it several fold, ingoing and out. The affect on the sound is pretty amazing.
In fact it's so effective that a lot of people were using the stock power supplies for their SqueezeBoxes along with a Felix, enjoying it as much or more than many linear options!
-
Rich wait till you get some power conditioning...
SMPS's add noise not only to what it powers, but to the rest of your equipment. SMPS's and small transformer equiped things do this. But Using CMC/DMC's reduces it several fold, ingoing and out. The affect on the sound is pretty amazing.
In fact it's so effective that a lot of people were using the stock power supplies for their SqueezeBoxes along with a Felix, enjoying it as much or more than many linear options!
Thanks Salis. I suspect that the SMPS is injecting noise into the ARC LS7. I will explore power conditioning in the near future. I know the power grid here in Northern California is always stressed.
In the meantime, I installed a Panasonic EVJ 50kohm volume pot into my TPA3110D2 amp. As I mentioned before, I carefully soldered the wires using a third hand tool. in the photo, you can see that I wrapped the jaws of one of the alligator clips to keep the alligator teeth from biting into the wire insulation. After soldering each wire in place, I slid a short segment of 14AWG Teflon tubing over each soldered joint to avoid possible shorts. It also serves as a strain relief.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92338)
Here is the volume pot installed next to the RCA inputs to keep the signal path as short as possible to minimize any RFI effects. Using my DMM and my ears, this volume pot is very well balanced, even at very low volumes. Interestingly, I have absolutely no noise coming through my speakers with my Sony ES SACD/DVD/CD player connected directly to the inputs of the amp integrated amp mode. The starting volume position is about 7 o'clock, and pushing it to 10 o'clock is plenty loud for my man cave. This little amp never ceases to amaze me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92339)
Next, I am going to build a second unit. Both the new amp and this prototype will be encased in a couple Context Engineering extruded Aluminum enclosures.
-
I got one in the mail. We'll see how it does... The TDA7297 is still one of the most transparent things I've heard.
-
Salis, keep an open mind and make sure you minimize the signal path. If you have shielded hook-up wire, that would be better. You'll need to add a volume pot or stepped attenuator to make an apples-to-apples comparison with the TDA7297 chip amp. You can then be the judge on which amp is better.
I just connected the amp to my LS7 line stage, and it sounds fine. The Panasonic EVJ volume pots are a bargain as long as you can work with the small spacing and somewhat fragile leads. I wish someone would make a small PCB to mount these and make them easier to work with. But for $1.70 each, I shouldn't complain.
-
I use a stepped attenuator populated with dales. It's not bad. But I can hear the need for a buffer unless it is turned up a fair bit. That's how transparent the TDA7297 actually is in my system.
-
I have one of the 3116 based amps what or which speakers do you recommend, to go well with the amp thank you
-
With the TPA3110, I'd look for a speaker with sensitivity in the low to mid 90s, with an impedance that doesn't dip too far below 4 ohms. (Edit: If sitting at your desktop, a speaker with 80 dB sensitivity is adequate for achieving hi-fi listening levels at your desk.) With the TPA3116, choose a speaker in the mid-80dB sensitivity range, and then also make sure the impedance doesn't dip too far below 4 ohms. I would recommend against big three-ways unless you have a measured impedance curve that shows the speaker impedance doesn't dip too low. Two-way monitor speakers, larger speakers with horn loading and high-efficiency drivers, or single-driver speakers would be ideal. These chip amps are very sensitive to low impedances, which usually won't burn anything up but you will experience an increase in distortion at the nominal power rating. Low impedances require de-rating the chip's power output. I wouldn't recommend using any class-D chip amp with speakers over 100dB sensitivity unless you need high output, because at normal listening volumes the noise floor would become audible as hiss during quiet passages. There are beefier IC-based Class D amps out there if you need to drive demanding speaker loads at high volumes, such as the new Dayton Audio DTA-120 which uses a TC2000 and dual Class-T output chips running in PBTL mode to handle low impedances.
Also, I found a schematic for the Sure TPA3110 board: http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/tech-diagrams/320-329-parts-express-technical-diagram.pdf
Note that the schematic shows output filter ferrite beads L1 thru L4, but I can't find these anywhere on my board, so there may be other deviations from this schematic.
-
In the meantime, I installed a Panasonic EVJ 50kohm volume pot into my TPA3110D2 amp. As I mentioned before, I carefully soldered the wires using a third hand tool. in the photo, you can see that I wrapped the jaws of one of the alligator clips to keep the alligator teeth from biting into the wire insulation. After soldering each wire in place, I slid a short segment of 14AWG Teflon tubing over each soldered joint to avoid possible shorts. It also serves as a strain relief.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92338)
Rhing,
Thanks for the wiring drawing and the third hand pic. I do have a third hand, actually mine is so old it was made in USA :thumb: I assume you use one clip to hold the shaft and another to hold the wire close to the pin? I will definitely give it a try.
-
Rhing,
Thanks for the wiring drawing and the third hand pic. I do have a third hand, actually mine is so old it was made in USA :thumb: I assume you use one clip to hold the shaft and another to hold the wire close to the pin? I will definitely give it a try.
In the photo, the third hand alligator jaws without the masking tape wrap is holding the nut that is on the shaft of the volume pot. The other alligator jaws wrapped in beige-colored masking tape are holding the red insulated wire.
- I strip off a length of insulation off each wire that is the same length as each lead on the volume pot.
- It really helps if every wire you solder on the volume pot is straight, especially the stripped end that gets soldered to the lead.
- Then I position and line-up the wire to the lead to maximize the contact area.
- I touch the lead with my soldering iron tip and allow enough solder to flow and encapsulate the wire and lead.
- After it cools, I clean any rosin flux off with an alcohol-soaked cotton swab and slide the small segment of Teflon tubing over it.
It looks daunting, but you just solder all your wires to the pot leads first before installing it. The tinned leads on the Panasonic pots are soft and bendable, so be careful not to bend the leads back and forth repeatedly, or they'll snap off. This is probably something you wouldn't want to do after a few coffees or Mountain Dews. :icon_lol:
-
Update on the ferrite beads: I received them today, and slid them onto my speaker wires just after the screw terminal outputs. The RF interference with my keyboard and mouse is gone, with no loss of sound quality. The beads I used are Amidon Associates FB-43-801. For anyone building a DIY amp with the Sure TPA3110 board at its heart, these beads are essential. According to TI, this will allow the system to pass FCC Class B with speaker wires up to 1.25m in length.
A workable class-D amplifier without an LC output filter is a big deal, because the output filter is a big source of distortion and instability in conventional Class-D amps. With no load connected, the reactance of the filter can lead to oscillations that can burn up the output capacitors or the chip's output transistors. Also, this filter can create voltage pulses on the outputs of the chip that cannot be compensated properly by the feedback loop, causing the loop to induce harmonic distortion. The ferrite bead filter has much smaller reactance, so it won't have these issues, and it also won't experience the HF peaking that occurs in typical output filters with high impedance loads or reactive loads with high inductance. The TPA3110 is a very nifty little IC for this reason.
-
Thanks for the information on the Ferrite beads. I'll have to check those out, although my noise problems have been virtually eliminated with the addition of the volume pot.
-
Thanks for the information on the Ferrite beads. I'll have to check those out, although my noise problems have been virtually eliminated with the addition of the volume pot.
The effect of the ferrite beads shouldn't be audible. The PWM switching activity of Class-D amplifiers creates large amounts of RF energy from their outputs, which can cause interference with TV, radio, and wireless communications, and can cause excess heating in some drivers that do not have an inductive component to their impedance such as piezos, planars, and AMTs. Normally this is resolved by using an LC output filter to clean up the amplifier output, but these new TI chips use a different switching scheme ("BD" switching instead of "AD" switching, per the tech documentation) that produces less RF noise, and they only require ferrite beads in their output filters, instead of the common LC output filters, because the inductance of the speaker driver is enough to block the RF noise from causing heating in the driver. The ferrite beads are just needed to block the radio-frequency noise content that can be radiated from the amplifier using the speaker cables as antennas.
If you notice anything anywhere from adding the ferrite beads, it would be that a nearby radio-frequency device that formerly suffered from interference caused by your amplifier now no longer does. That's how I understand it, and that's what I've noticed.
-
Thanks for the clarification. As far as I can tell, I have not had any issues with RFI from my TPA3110D2 amp.
Based on the schematic that Taterworks shared in a previous post, has anyone tried input caps with a capacitance >0.22uF to obtain a lower bass response (Fc)? My DMM capacitance meter doesn't have the connectors to test the capacitance, and I'm too cheap to invest in a true capacitance meter.
-
Update on the ferrite beads: I received them today, and slid them onto my speaker wires just after the screw terminal outputs.
Do the beads go on both leads of the speaker wire? any pic of your set-up showing the size of the beads?
-
Almost everything that you need to know about ferrite's. Don't let the title fool you, it started out as an audio paper then the Ham information was added.
A Ham's Guide to RFI, Ferrites, Baluns, and Audio Interfacing
by Jim Brown K9YC
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
The basis of this tutorial is a combination of my engineering education, 55 years in ham radio, my
work as vice-chair of the AES Standards Committee working group on EMC, and extensive research
on RFI in the pro audio world where I’ve made my living.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf
-
Update on the ferrite beads: I received them today, and slid them onto my speaker wires just after the screw terminal outputs. The RF interference with my keyboard and mouse is gone, with no loss of sound quality. The beads I used are Amidon Associates FB-43-801. For anyone building a DIY amp with the Sure TPA3110 board at its heart, these beads are essential. According to TI, this will allow the system to pass FCC Class B with speaker wires up to 1.25m in length.
FYI, Mouser and Digikey also carry comparable 43-type Ferrite beads:
Mouser PN 623-2643000801
Fair-Rite Ferrite Cable Cores 43 SHIELD BEAD Z=92 OHM @ 100MHz
$0.11 each
Digikey PN M8707-ND
Bourns FERRITE BEAD 200MHZ .297 LENGTH
$0.18 each
Do the beads go on both leads of the speaker wire? any pic of your set-up showing the size of the beads?
One bead should be placed on each wire between speaker output 2-pole terminal blocks and the speaker binding posts for each channel ("+" and "-"), so you'll need four (4) beads total.
I also added a Panasonic FC 1,800uF / 25V across J8 as Taterworks did, and just as he described, the soundstage became significantly more three-dimensional, and the bass gained some muscle. This was a nice change once I ran this amp standalone. Without the ARC LS7 line stage preamp in front of this amp, the sound thinned out and the bass weight disappeared. With the off board cap in place, the bass, the warm tonality and rich detail came back to life.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92694)
I have two more Sure TPA3110D2 boards coming soon. One of them will end up in this Context Engineering chassis, which I drilled out and assembled last weekend. For scale, this enclosure has a slightly larger footprint than my iPhone 5. It has the Pomona 3770-x Gold-plated Copper binding posts, Vampire CM1F RCA connectors, Switchcraft 722A 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector and Panasonic EVJ 50k log volume pot. To mount the additional cap, I'll remove the 2-pole terminal block from J8 and solder in a Panasonic FC cap along with the power supply wires.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92695)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92696)
-
I received my second Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp today and installed it in the chassis.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92778)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92779)
Since this chassis has slots for mounting a 3 inch wide PCB, I didn't have to use stand-offs for mounting the board in place. However, I did have to remove the built-in DC power connector to be able to slide the amp into the chassis. Sounds great!
-
rhing
What is that third larger cap?
Scott
-
It is a Panasonic FC 1800uF / 25V electrolytic cap soldered into the J8 thru-holes where the power supply is connected to Vcc. The twisted wires from the power connector are routed beneath the board and soldered to the cap and thru-holes for Vcc (+) and Ground (0V). Taterworks had tried this and so I gave it a try too and obtained the same improvements in bass response, a larger soundstage and improved tonality. This was really apparent when using this amp as a standalone integrated amp in my system. I would have preferred a 2200uF / 25V Panasonic FC/FM cap, but the height would not fit in the compact chassis.
This is a fun amp to play around with if you have the right speakers to drive. I'm ready to try a TPA3116D2 amp now. I hope some good boards become available. The Yuan Jing boards don't look like they're as well constructed as the Sure TPA3110 board. I also need to explore power supplies that work well with these amps.
-
It is a Panasonic FC 1800uF / 25V electrolytic cap soldered into the J8 thru-holes where the power supply is connected to Vcc. The twisted wires from the power connector are routed beneath the board and soldered to the cap and thru-holes for Vcc (+) and Ground (0V). Taterworks had tried this and so I gave it a try too and obtained the same improvements in bass response, a larger soundstage and improved tonality. This was really apparent when using this amp as a standalone integrated amp in my system. I would have preferred a 2200uF / 25V Panasonic FC/FM cap, but the height would not fit in the compact chassis.
This is a fun amp to play around with if you have the right speakers to drive. I'm ready to try a TPA3116D2 amp now. I hope some good boards become available. The Yuan Jing boards don't look like they're as well constructed as the Sure TPA3110 board. I also need to explore power supplies that work well with these amps.
Rhing,
That looks great :thumb: The context chassis look like really nice quality.
I see you didn't use the ferrite beads? Also, did you you try different brand PS caps?
-
I haven't tried the Ferrite beads yet since I don't have any RFI problems, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try them.
As for trying different brands of power supply caps, I usually use Panasonic Aluminum electrolytic caps: FM, FC, ED, TS-ED, EE, TS-EE and TS-HA. I've used them in solid state and tube amp projects and they do not impart any sonic signature. On top of that, they are very dependable like a good Honda or Toyota car. And of course, they're cheap and cheerful. I have used Nichicon caps as well, and I like them, but I usually will lean to Panasonics.
I have used Elna Silmic II caps for signal coupling and for cathode bypass caps with excellent results. I generally don't consider them for power supplies, although they might work well in the TPA31xx amps, because they do impart a certain amount of warmth if that's your preference.
I have tried Rubycon ZA/ZL in power supplies that many have raved about. To me, they are overrated. They do their job, but they impart an electronic haze to the sound.
If you study what some of the best American amp designers like Nelson Pass or John Curl use, they typically specify Panasonic and Nichicon caps.
-
I'm listening to my TPA3110D2 amp made by Rhing. It has quality parts like Vampire RCAs and Insight 12v/5a power supply and Pangea AC cord. Powering my 90db/4ohm JM Reynaud Twin Signature speakers the sound is very good, better that my NAD 3020, Cyrus 2, T-amp, B&K ST-140 or ASL Wave 8s with those speakers. I've been using it with the built in volume control but plan to try it as a power amp with a Bottlehead Quickie as the preamp too. The sound quality/value ratio is pretty amazing.
-
I'm curious about driving a set of low-efficiency, low-sensitivity headphones (Hifiman HE-6) with a Sure TPA3110 amp. These are orthodynamic (not conventional dynamic) headphones. I'd be driving them directly off the speaker taps. Any reason that I shouldn't try this pairing?
(About the HE-6: Nominal impedance=43 ohms. Power rating=6 W. Efficiency=77 dB1mW, 91 dB1V.)
-
I'm curious about driving a set of low-efficiency, low-sensitivity headphones (Hifiman HE-6) with a Sure TPA3110 amp. These are orthodynamic (not conventional dynamic) headphones. I'd be driving them directly off the speaker taps. Any reason that I shouldn't try this pairing?
(About the HE-6: Nominal impedance=43 ohms. Power rating=6 W. Efficiency=77 dB1mW, 91 dB1V.)
If you do this, you may need to change the wiring of your Hifiman headphones. Most headphones share a common 'ground' conductor on the 3.5mm plug, but this won't work with full-bridge class D amplifiers which supply voltage on the negative and the positive terminals. You would need to use a separate positive and negative lead wire to each driver, which is probably different from what your headphones already use.
If a common ground wire is used, one channel of your amp will try to drive current through the very low output impedance of the other channel, and this will burn the whole chip out. This is also true of most IC-based Class D amps (Tripath, ST Micro, NXP, TI, others) which are four-channel devices and run two channels in BTL configuration to obtain lower distortion and higher power on two channels of audio.
Also, if you try this, remember the ferrite beads on the outputs so you don't subject your brain to radio-frequency electromagnetic radiation.
-
Thanks, Taterworks. The HE-6 are terminated in four banana connectors (so no common ground) just right for driving out of a Class D amp.
I'll definitely remember the ferrite beads on the outputs. Thanks for that pointer.
-
I just disconnected a Virtue 1 amp with the 30V 5amp SMPS for the brand new 3116D amp without the tone controls (Red board), but has a volume pot and my SLA 12v battery. Sounds smooth so far (first mmnute of play), but I got so used to the really bright on top of the Virtue that I feel like it is missing something, but the brightness was really a bit much. Really crappy RCA's and bone stock board so far. I'll let it play all night while I sleep. Nowhere as hissy and crisp as the same board, but with the tone controls.
On a jazz piece with brushes on snare it has a very accurate sound already without sounding overly shimmery.
-
Just an FYI, the 3116 amps do not draw 5 amps - they use far, far less unless you are cranking high spl's/dynamic range or really want to have reserve for peak current. One owner measured only 40mA with their speakers (though full range).
Also the 3116 is usable down to 6v. Consensus elsewhere is that 12-20v is the sweet spot. I use 12v SLA batteries.
24V SLA set-up for me and I love it. Nothing special in the wire, but was thinking is there a C&C wiring for the SLA set-up that would make a difference? I am using old thin wires cut from SMPS's. Maybe build a board of capacitors to add to the amp box for the incoming DC power?
A friend stopped the other day and recommended I try one then two Optima batteries. A bit of an expensive experiment, but could be cool if it works (massive reserves for dynamics).
-
24V SLA set-up for me and I love it. Nothing special in the wire, but was thinking is there a C&C wiring for the SLA set-up that would make a difference? I am using old thin wires cut from SMPS's. Maybe build a board of capacitors to add to the amp box for the incoming DC power?
A friend stopped the other day and recommended I try one then two Optima batteries. A bit of an expensive experiment, but could be cool if it works (massive reserves for dynamics).
I have used 18AWG or 19AWG Teflon-insulated Silver-plated, stranded Copper Mil-Spec wire that you can purchase via eBay or online retailers like Apex Jr. Use different colors to differentiate "+" and "-" battery connections. Twist them as a pair, and use your favorite expandable sleeving. I use 1/4" diameter spiral-cut tubing over the twisted pairs, and then slide expandable sleeving over that to give it a more finished appearance.
-
"Ray'' at least Optima automobile batteries should be easy to sell in Cleveland with this incoming cold weather.
-
I haven't tried the Ferrite beads yet since I don't have any RFI problems, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try them.
As for trying different brands of power supply caps, I usually use Panasonic Aluminum electrolytic caps: FM, FC, ED, TS-ED, EE, TS-EE and TS-HA. I've used them in solid state and tube amp projects and they do not impart any sonic signature. On top of that, they are very dependable like a good Honda or Toyota car. And of course, they're cheap and cheerful. I have used Nichicon caps as well, and I like them, but I usually will lean to Panasonics.
I have used Elna Silmic II caps for signal coupling and for cathode bypass caps with excellent results. I generally don't consider them for power supplies, although they might work well in the TPA31xx amps, because they do impart a certain amount of warmth if that's your preference.
I have tried Rubycon ZA/ZL in power supplies that many have raved about. To me, they are overrated. They do their job, but they impart an electronic haze to the sound.
If you study what some of the best American amp designers like Nelson Pass or John Curl use, they typically specify Panasonic and Nichicon caps.
I replaced the power supply caps on a new TPA3110D2 amp board with Elna Silmic II caps that were mentioned as being "warm" sounding. Also, I soldered a Panasonic FM 2200uF / 25V electrolytic cap where the power supply is connected. Plus, I added the Ferrite beads to my speaker wires.
The result is amazing! These new mods have completely changed this little amp. If the Elna Silmic II caps add warmth, then I guess I like "warm" :thumb: I will try the Nichicon caps next.
-
What inductor/ferrite are you guys using? My Sure has a bit less noise with some old bead clamps from PE, but it utterly destroys the top end and more.
I'm worried the 3116 could be like that. My Mini ClassDaudio has no top end, and similar looking inductors to the 3116 one-knob board.
-
I replaced the power supply caps on a new TPA3110D2 amp board with Elna Silmic II caps that were mentioned as being "warm" sounding. Also, I soldered a Panasonic FM 2200uF / 25V electrolytic cap where the power supply is connected. Plus, I added the Ferrite beads to my speaker wires.
The result is amazing! These new mods have completely changed this little amp. If the Elna Silmic II caps add warmth, then I guess I like "warm" :thumb: I will try the Nichicon caps next.
Very glad to hear the bulk PSU cap and ferrite beads worked out for you, along with the Silmic mod. I need to give that last one a try.
With the bulk PSU cap mod, I noticed a change from a thin, literal sound to a fuller sound with weightier lows, without sacrificing the balance between smoothness and detail on top, so there is definitely an increase in the current that is available instantaneously to the amp chip. Intuitively, I prefer the idea of preserving the smaller, possibly faster and lower-ESR 220uF caps in the power supply decoupling capacitor positions, and then letting them recharge from the bigger 2200 uF reservoir. It also makes the change to premium decoupling caps less expensive.
-
What inductor/ferrite are you guys using? My Sure has a bit less noise with some old bead clamps from PE, but it utterly destroys the top end and more.
I'm worried the 3116 could be like that. My Mini ClassDaudio has no top end, and similar looking inductors to the 3116 one-knob board.
I provided the ferrite bead part number in a previous post. They're very small beads, only large enough for the wire to pass through once, though I doubt that unless you wound the wire around a larger bead several times (thus creating an inductor), that you would notice any change in the HF response. The main objective of using the ferrite beads is to reduce RF interference with surrounding devices.
If you review my previous posts about this amp board, I had noticed that music playback above a certain level would cause interference problems with my wireless mouse and keyboard. The ferrite beads helped somewhat, but I later found that at even louder levels my wireless mouse and keyboard reception would become spotty again. An output filter with a very elevated corner frequency (40 kHz or above) might be able to attenuate the RFI emissions further without having an audible impact on the sound, even with higher-impedance loads. Also, I might try using larger ferrite beads on the speaker cables to see if they can be effective at lower frequencies.
-
Very glad to hear the bulk PSU cap and ferrite beads worked out for you, along with the Silmic mod. I need to give that last one a try.
With the bulk PSU cap mod, I noticed a change from a thin, literal sound to a fuller sound with weightier lows, without sacrificing the balance between smoothness and detail on top, so there is definitely an increase in the current that is available instantaneously to the amp chip. Intuitively, I prefer the idea of preserving the smaller, possibly faster and lower-ESR 220uF caps in the power supply decoupling capacitor positions, and then letting them recharge from the bigger 2200 uF reservoir. It also makes the change to premium decoupling caps less expensive.
Being the rookie I am, I'm not sure exactly how to describe the sound after the mods, but I certainly can hear a positive difference :thumb: Your description of weightier lows is immediately noticeable. I have a small sub connected to my modest desktop system and after adding the third cap, I had to turn down my sub. Also, I concur with the "fuller sound" description.
I didn't even know my amp without the ferrite beads was possibly causing RFI issues with my wireless mouse. I have been experiencing intermittent problems with the mouse scroll wheel not working. Since I installed the beads, everything seems to be ok. Not sure if the beads were the cure, but it was more effective than replacing the mouse batteries. I used the beads from Digikey that Rhing listed in a previous post.
-
Do the ferrite beads go on each L & R channel individually or together. I need to get back to getting the amp up and running.
-
Each of the four wires, "+" and "-" from the speaker output screw terminal blocks get a Ferrite bead. So four beads total.
-
Each of the four wires, "+" and "-" from the speaker output screw terminal blocks get a Ferrite bead. So four beads total.
Thank you
-
It keeps getting better :thumb: I added the Panasonic EVJ 50k ohm volume pot that Rhing used. I am using the amp for PC based listening primarily for streaming Pandora One, and now I can max the Pandora volume control, and use the newly installed pot for volume duty. Yet another very positive addition to this amazing little amp.
I am getting better at slinging solder with each new mod. Thanks everyone for all the great ideas and the help!
My experimentation board:
(http://i.imgur.com/odKbxazl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yBChXH1l.jpg)
-
Very nice! The Panasonic pots are not the easiest to work with, but with a third hand tool and patience, it really can't be beat for the money--transparent and really great channel balance.
-
Hello lacro,
What is the value of your two Silmic II caps?
-
I think they're about $6.99 each.
Sorry, couldn't resist, maybe because they're capacitors and have very little resistance.
Please, stop me.
-
I finished my Sure TPA3110 amp last week, and was using a 12V SLA battery for the PS. I found and ordered this 12V laptop PS from Ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290727815800?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/290727815800?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Measured 12.5 volts, so I plugged it in. A big improvement driving my little Pioneers, and my wife's request to "get that big-ass battery out of the living room" has been fullfilled.
Mike
-
Hello lacro,
What is the value of your two Silmic II caps?
Taterworks:
1,000uF / 25V.
-
Well if they are not going to provide good parts on-board, at least now there's a board so you can swap stuff easily. (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
-
Well if they are not going to provide good parts on-board, at least now there's a board so you can swap stuff easily. (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
FYI: Due to the Chinese New Year Holiday, our factory will be closed from 25 JAN - 8 FEB 2014.
You can place the order during this period. However, all our orders will be started to ship out form 12 FEB.
-
Ya but it takes 2-3 weeks anyway.
-
Pretty kewl site regardless.
-
I love my (red board) TPA3116 board, but want to eliminate the volume control. Should I just buy another one (I believe the one with the green board has no volume pot). Is there a way to remove it? if I remove it then what mods do I then need to do to hook it to a pre-amp? Sorry, very low knowledge on power amp design.
Ray
-
I love my (red board) TPA3116 board, but want to eliminate the volume control. Should I just buy another one (I believe the one with the green board has no volume pot). Is there a way to remove it? if I remove it then what mods do I then need to do to hook it to a pre-amp? Sorry, very low knowledge on power amp design.
Ray
Hi Ray
Removing the pot is fairly easy, if you have either a solder vacuum or solder wick. I use the vacuum (radioshack), heat each for the six joints 'til the solder melts, and suck it off the board. After a few passes, the pot will get loose and pull out.
You can then wire your RCA's to the vacant pot holes. Salis Audio posted a picture showing a similar board
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.0)
The middle holes are from the + pin of the RCA, the left holes from the - pin.
Solder wires from the two RCA jacks to the four holes marked in the picture. Make sure to twist the + and - wires from each RCA to the board. Connect your preamp to the RCA's, and you are ready for tunes :D.
Hope that helps.
Mike
-
If you like the current input location, but have removed the pot, yoou can also jumper with wire the far right front with middle front, and far right back with middle back. That would leave ground disconnected at the old pots location but doesn't matter as ground is connected where you have inputs now.
-
Question about the tpa3116. Received mine in the mail and was going to put in a box. I want to connect it to some RCA jacks, so I removed the plastic connector exposing three prongs on the front of the board. Right input, Ground and Left input. When hooking them up, do I use the same ground for both the right and left inputs? I would have thought there would be 2 separate grounds, one for the right input and one for the left input. I prefer not to cook the board before I get to listen to it. Thank you for any advise.
Tom
-
Hi Ray
Removing the pot is fairly easy, if you have either a solder vacuum or solder wick. I use the vacuum (radioshack), heat each for the six joints 'til the solder melts, and suck it off the board. After a few passes, the pot will get loose and pull out.
You can then wire your RCA's to the vacant pot holes. Salis Audio posted a picture showing a similar board
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.0)
The middle holes are from the + pin of the RCA, the left holes from the - pin.
Solder wires from the two RCA jacks to the four holes marked in the picture. Make sure to twist the + and - wires from each RCA to the board. Connect your preamp to the RCA's, and you are ready for tunes :D.
Hope that helps.
Mike
Very helpful-thanks. I hope it improves the sound even if a little bit.
-
If you like the current input location, but have removed the pot, yoou can also jumper with wire the far right front with middle front, and far right back with middle back. That would leave ground disconnected at the old pots location but doesn't matter as ground is connected where you have inputs now.
I am using the crappy RCA dongle that you buy separately and it is already broken. The RCA plugs I use are so tight that I removed them once and the plugs separated so I will likely replace them with something sturdier.
-
When hooking them up, do I use the same ground for both the right and left inputs?
Tom
Hey Tom
Yes, you can use the same ground for both. If the board had two grounds, they would be connected anyway.
Mike
-
Mike,
Thank you! I'll wire it up tonite and give the amp a try.
Thanks,
Tom
-
Would one of these amps work with a strata mini speaker at lower volumes? http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_4/onix-strata-mini-speakers-12-2006-part-1.html I'm using a ONIX A60 amp and never push the volume past 9AM. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81177.0
-
I would be surprised if any if these amps could drive the Mini Stratas with any reasonable headroom. Those crossovers are current-eaters.
-
Some multiway speakers also have load impedences that class D will often puke out as some kinda joke. The AB amps will do better.
-
Good point. The Mini Stratas have a crazy impedance curve, and probably would sound shrill with a TPA3110/TPA3116 Class D amp.
-
Thanks for saving me some money and time :) Glad I asked.
-
My TPA 3110 board and parts to assemble arrived yesterday from PartsExpress.
The pictures just don't clearly show how TINY this board is.
Cool ideas and thanks for this post to everyone who contributed :thumb:
-
If you are using shielded cable as hookup cable do you have to do anything special with shield portion or just solder the same way as +/-?
-
The pictures just don't clearly show how TINY this board is.
I bought a "cheap plastic" 6" X 4" x 2" project box from Radioshack ($6). Volume control and power switch on the front. Rca's, binding posts, and DC power connector on the back. 12V laptop PS from Ebay ($9).
Drives my little $80 Pioneers very well.
Mix in a $250 Squeezebox Touch :o...great little setup.
Mike
-
If you are using shielded cable as hookup cable do you have to do anything special with shield portion or just solder the same way as +/-?
For using shielded hookup wire, you connect the shield and ground together at the input RCA connectors. At the other end (presumably at the volume pot), you do not connect the shield to ground. Just leave it free, but connect your ground to the ground connections at the volume pot or at the amp module inputs if you not using a volume pot. This will help avoid ground loops with the shielding.
I have not had a problem with excessive RFI, but if the problem persists even with using shielded hookup, Jon Risch recommends inserting a 0.1uF ceramic cap between the shield and ground at the amplifier input end (volume pot or amp board input).
-
Got the 3110 wired up and playing tonight.
For what it cost to build, this thing has no right to sound this good. :scratch:
Plenty of power for the Pioneer '41 bookshelves.
The IEC plugged into the laptop-style power supply was 4x the cost of the whole amp. :lol:
I'll give it a couple of days to play in, then report back.
Cool stuff.
-
I've been in contact with Kevin of K&K Audio regarding the use of line level input transformers to balance the inputs, LINP, LINN, RINP, and RINN. This is what he had to recommend: either the Lundahl LL1592 or the Lundahl LL1690. The LL1592 has a somewhat warmer, but less detailed sound then the LL1690, which is very transparent. So after experimenting with the $10 Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp, I am seriously considering trying a pair out at the inputs for better noise rejection and improved sound quality. One interesting thing that Kevin recommended was to keep the input caps as DC blockers to avoid any DC core saturation of the input transformers. I am going to post on the Texas Instruments Web forum and ask their opinion about balancing the inputs with transformers. The idea would also be applicable to the TPA3116D2 amps as well.
-
I've been in contact with Kevin of K&K Audio regarding the use of line level input transformers to balance the inputs, LINP, LINN, RINP, and RINN. This is what he had to recommend: either the Lundahl LL1592 or the Lundahl LL1690. The LL1592 has a somewhat warmer, but less detailed sound then the LL1690, which is very transparent. So after experimenting with the $10 Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp, I am seriously considering trying a pair out at the inputs for better noise rejection and improved sound quality. One interesting thing that Kevin recommended was to keep the input caps as DC blockers to avoid any DC core saturation of the input transformers. I am going to post on the Texas Instruments Web forum and ask their opinion about balancing the inputs with transformers. The idea would also be applicable to the TPA3116D2 amps as well.
Oof, I'll definitely wait til you report back on that - them transformers ain't cheap.
I'll also be picking your brain soon about a certain belt-idler turntable coming my way... 8)
-
Belt-idler turntable? Dude, you will love your vinyl collection all over again. They just have a special way of conveying the vibe of music from vinyl grooves that neither belt drive nor direct drive turntables can reproduce.
I know it sounds ludicrous that I would use input transformers that each cost 10x more than the Sure Electronics amp board, but I've been able to get great sound quality in my main system with the TPA3110D2. I just put two matched pairs of Genelex Gold Lion ECC88/6922 tubes in my Audio Research PH5 phono stage and I'm using my TDA7297 chip amp and TPA3110D2 Class D amp. The TPA3110D2 is an amazing performer and if putting two Lundahl transformers on the inputs will give me sound that closely mimics a good tube amp, I'm still ahead on overall costs. A good KT88 push-pull amp DIY project would still set me back $600 to $700. I already have one of those nice brushed Aluminum faceplate Modushop chassis that would be perfect for housing a TPA3110 or TPA3116 amps with input transformers. It wouldn't be cheap, but it would definitely be cheerful.
-
The higher PS cap values improve low end response for a more fuller sound in my experience. Others have reported the same. I've also found PS caps to have a more tonal impact than say input cap mods, etc. I prefer Nichicon Muse myself for clean and clear and microdynamics. Elna Silmics are very warm. It's easy to try out on the 3110 board since it has surface pads making it very simple to solder and desolder. And PS caps are so inexpensive. Worth trying out.
Wushuliu,
I must thank you for introducing me to the possibilities of this little amp. I am on my 3rd board! I tried the Panasonic caps first, and the Elna Silmics next, and today I am trying the Nichicon Muse caps that you prefer. the latest board is being powered by my lawn mowers 12v battery.
The sound difference using different caps is astounding! The stock board sounds good, but the cheap and cheerful cap swaps are like buying another much more expensive amp! I do like the warm sound of the Elna Silmics, but I do get what you describe as"clean and clear and microdynamics" with the Muse caps. Even my wife commented on the "clear sound" of the Muse caped board. I can see me liking both mods depending on the music, but I think I am liking the Muse caps more even though they have only been playing an hour.
Maybe the battery power is part of it. I will have to give the Elna Silmics board a try with the battery power.
(http://i.imgur.com/C2VrtpXl.jpg)
-
Wow! Now I have to go out and get a battery power supply for my TPA3110D2 amp.
I just finished this build today, and the unit is playing now. It will take some time before everything settles in, but so far it sounds very promising.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94527)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94528)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94529)
It has the following components:
- 2X 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II electrolytic caps
- 1X 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytic cap on thru-holes where the power supply is connected to the board
- 4X Bourns 43-Type Ferrite beads from Digikey
- 1X Panasonic EVJ 50kohm audio taper volume pot
- 2X custom-made shielded hook-up wires using twisted pairs of 0.5mm Mundorf Silver-Gold solid core wire in Teflon tubing, next wrapped in Teflon tape, inserted into 12AWG Teflon thin wall tubing, covered with Tinned Copper braided shielding and finished in Techflex cable sleeving.
- Vampire CM1F RCA connectors
- Vampire CM-HEX 5-way binding posts
- NKK SPST 6A power switch
- Switchcraft 722A DC power connector, 2.1mm x 5.5mm
- Context Engineering split Aluminum enclosure, black anodized, brushed surface finish
- Kilo Silver-finish machined Aluminum knob from Digikey
The shielded wiring is pretty stiff after building it up, but I have no noise issues.
My next project is this Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amp. I just ordered it yesterday.
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
The fun never ends.
-
Lacro,
Are you sure the amp board is still under there somewhere? :lol: 8)
-
Wow! Now I have to go out and get a battery power supply for my TPA3110D2 amp.
I just finished this build today, and the unit is playing now. It will take some time before everything settles in, but so far it sounds very promising.
It has the following components:
- 2X 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II electrolytic caps
- 1X 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytic cap on thru-holes where the power supply is connected to the board
- 4X Bourns 43-Type Ferrite beads from Digikey
- 1X Panasonic EVJ 50kohm audio taper volume pot
- 2X custom-made shielded hook-up wires using twisted pairs of 0.5mm Mundorf Silver-Gold solid core wire in Teflon tubing, next wrapped in Teflon tape, inserted into 12AWG Teflon thin wall tubing, covered with Tinned Copper braided shielding and finished in Techflex cable sleeving.
- Vampire CM1F RCA connectors
- Vampire CM-HEX 5-way binding posts
- NKK SPST 6A power switch
- Switchcraft 722A DC power connector, 2.1mm x 5.5mm
- Context Engineering split Aluminum enclosure, black anodized, brushed surface finish
- Kilo Silver-finish machined Aluminum knob from Digikey
The shielded wiring is pretty stiff after building it up, but I have no noise issues.
My next project is this Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amp. I just ordered it yesterday.
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
The fun never ends.
Very nice...
Btw what was the shipping cost on the YJ board?
-
Wow! Now I have to go out and get a battery power supply for my TPA3110D2 amp.
I just finished this build today, and the unit is playing now. It will take some time before everything settles in, but so far it sounds very promising.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94527)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94528)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94529)
It has the following components:
- 2X 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II electrolytic caps
- 1X 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytic cap on thru-holes where the power supply is connected to the board
- 4X Bourns 43-Type Ferrite beads from Digikey
- 1X Panasonic EVJ 50kohm audio taper volume pot
- 2X custom-made shielded hook-up wires using twisted pairs of 0.5mm Mundorf Silver-Gold solid core wire in Teflon tubing, next wrapped in Teflon tape, inserted into 12AWG Teflon thin wall tubing, covered with Tinned Copper braided shielding and finished in Techflex cable sleeving.
- Vampire CM1F RCA connectors
- Vampire CM-HEX 5-way binding posts
- NKK SPST 6A power switch
- Switchcraft 722A DC power connector, 2.1mm x 5.5mm
- Context Engineering split Aluminum enclosure, black anodized, brushed surface finish
- Kilo Silver-finish machined Aluminum knob from Digikey
The shielded wiring is pretty stiff after building it up, but I have no noise issues.
My next project is this Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amp. I just ordered it yesterday.
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
The fun never ends.
Nice work again! I hope to do the same quality some day... May I add: "the cheap and cheerful fun never ends"
-
Lacro,
Are you sure the amp board is still under there somewhere? :lol: 8)
Please forgive my Rats Nest! I just wanted to hear my new creation before putting it in/on some type box... I am pleased to say the least, even without a box!
-
Lacro - just kidding. The sound is the important thing.
Mine is in a box, but I need to buy some parts before I can put the lid on it. :scratch:
Plus the amp board is just sitting on the bottom - not physically connected.
Ordered some caps from Mouser tonight to try that upgrade.
Panny and Nichicon in a couple of different values.
Still really enjoying the sound. Piano especially has a nice tone and bite to it. :thumb:
-
I just finished this build today, and the unit is playing now. It will take some time before everything settles in, but so far it sounds very promising.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94527)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94528)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94529)
It has the following components:
- 2X 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II electrolytic caps
- 1X 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytic cap on thru-holes where the power supply is connected to the board
- 4X Bourns 43-Type Ferrite beads from Digikey
- 1X Panasonic EVJ 50kohm audio taper volume pot
- 2X custom-made shielded hook-up wires using twisted pairs of 0.5mm Mundorf Silver-Gold solid core wire in Teflon tubing, next wrapped in Teflon tape, inserted into 12AWG Teflon thin wall tubing, covered with Tinned Copper braided shielding and finished in Techflex cable sleeving.
- Vampire CM1F RCA connectors
- Vampire CM-HEX 5-way binding posts
- NKK SPST 6A power switch
- Switchcraft 722A DC power connector, 2.1mm x 5.5mm
- Context Engineering split Aluminum enclosure, black anodized, brushed surface finish
- Kilo Silver-finish machined Aluminum knob from Digikey
The shielded wiring is pretty stiff after building it up, but I have no noise issues.
That's a very impressive build. All the tweaks are present, and I'd say you've added a good $150 of value to that amp. The shielded input wiring in particular shows a lot of know-how. This will be a tough act to follow.
-
I only share these photos and experiences, because I used to wonder how people got into DIY audio. Hopefully, this will help others as they try to extract the best performance from these bargain-priced amps. The parts including the amp board cost about $100. I bought the Mundorf Silver-Gold wire in bulk a while ago to make my own interconnect cables, and I still have a few feet left. The Tinned Copper braided shielding car from a local surplus electronics store along with the Techflex sleeving and some of the Teflon tubing. The most expensive parts are the binding posts and RCA connectors. I usually buy stuff like this when sellers like Parts Connexion and Sonic Craft have their sales. I did score on a bunch of Vampire CM1F RCA connectors from some guy on eBay.
If anyone wants to know the recipe for the shielded hookup wire, just PM me. I might use the same recipe to make shielded interconnects between my phono stage and line stage.
Anyway, I highly doubt that I could find an amp for $100 to $150 new that sounds this good. After learning DIY audio through modding Sonic Impact T-amps and Magnavox console tube amps, I can hardly bring myself to go into audio dealerships knowing how much their goods are marked up.
-
I only share these photos and experiences, because I used to wonder how people got into DIY audio. Hopefully, this will help others as they try to extract the best performance from these bargain-priced amps. The parts including the amp board cost about $100. I bought the Mundorf Silver-Gold wire in bulk a while ago to make my own interconnect cables, and I still have a few feet left. The Tinned Copper braided shielding car from a local surplus electronics store along with the Techflex sleeving and some of the Teflon tubing. The most expensive parts are the binding posts and RCA connectors. I usually buy stuff like this when sellers like Parts Connexion and Sonic Craft have their sales. I did score on a bunch if Vampire CM1F RCA connectors from some guy on eBay.
I highly doubt that I could find an amp for $100 new that sounds this good. After learning DIY audio through modding Sonic Impact T-amps and Magnavox console tube amps, I can hardly bring myself to go into audio dealerships knowing how much their goods are marked up.
Is that a different (larger) box than you used previously? I know you mentioned you couldn't fit the Panasonic 2200uf cap in a previous build because it was too tall.
-
Is that a different (larger) box than you used previously? I know you mentioned you couldn't fit the Panasonic 2200uf cap in a previous build because it was too tall.
Actually, it is the same Context Engineering P/N 3008 split body enclosure I used in my previous TPA3110 build. I had to use my Dremel tool to grind out some of the extruded ribs in the upper corner of the top half of the box to accommodate the height of the 2,200uF Panasonic FM. I lined the surrounding areas with plenty of masking tape to avoid scratching anything. A Dremel tool works wonders until you slip up and damage something else nearby. After I ground away a nice rounded clearance, I touched it up with a black Sharpie marker. My Dremel tool is actually a Chinese clone I bought from Harbor Freight for $20. For this DIY hobby, Harbor Freight is a great resource for very affordable power tools like a desktop drill press or table saw and hand tools like center punches.
I should also mention that Morgan Jones' "Building Valve Amplifiers" is an excellent and practical book for DIY construction techniques. Even though the book is about building tube audio amplifiers, many of the construction techniques and tools covered in the book can be used for all things audio electronics. His other book "Valve Amplifiers" has plenty of math for EE wannabes (like me), but it also has some great information about selecting capacitors and resistors, and other components.
BTW, thanks for sharing photos of your projects, even in raw form. I wish more people would share photos of their projects no matter what they look like. It helps others learn and inspires people to jump into DIY audio and try new things.
-
Need some help in hooking up the volume pot to Sure and 7297 board. I purchased
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMT-Resistor-Step-Attenuator-50K-Volume-Control-/220975033985?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3373236e81
but do not know how to hook it up :oops: .
Thx
-
but do not know how to hook it up :oops: .
Hey...
Are you wanting to know how to solder to the pot (looks weird...holes to pins 1 and 3 seem to be filled with solder???), or how to wire from the RCA's to the pot to the board(s)?
Hate to bore you with too much detail :D
Mike
-
Hey...
Are you wanting to know how to solder to the pot (looks weird...holes to pins 1 and 3 seem to be filled with solder???), or how to wire from the RCA's to the pot to the board(s)?
Hate to bore you with too much detail :D
Mike
Mike,
RCA to pot to the board. Here is how I think it needs to be hooked up please correct if I can going about it wrong. The positive hole on the left channel needs to be connected to the left back hole on the pot, the ground to the hole on the front, similar thing with the right channel. The center is what gets connected to the rca for signal.
-
Mike,
RCA to pot to the board. Here is how I think it needs to be hooked up please correct if I can going about it wrong. The positive hole on the left channel needs to be connected to the left back hole on the pot, the ground to the hole on the front, similar thing with the right channel. The center is what gets connected to the rca for signal.
Not sure if the helps, but...
http://sound.westhost.com/pots.htm (http://sound.westhost.com/pots.htm)
Think of your stereo pot as two of the mono pots in the article, one in front of the other.
With the shaft facing you, and the solder pins facing down, the pins would be numbered 1, 2,and 3.
The center pin of one of the RCA's would connect to pin 3 of the front row. Wire pin 2 of the front row to the amplifier "+". Wire pin 1 of the front row to the amplifier "-".
Wire the other RCA to the back row of pins the same way. Just make sure that if you connect the Right RCA to pin 3 on the from row, then connect pins 1 and 2 of the front row to the right input on the amp.
This pin configuration is pretty normal. To verify, turn the pot all the way up. You should read 0 ohms between pins 3 and 2, and 50K ohms between pins 2 and 1. Total signal from 3 to 2, full resistance to ground.
Hope that helps.
Mike
-
I'll add my two pennies here:
Refer to the diagram on this Web page:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/controls_pot_alps.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/controls_pot_alps.html)
Channel 1 is your left channel
Channel 2 is your right channel
In - these are connected to the signal of your RCA connectors (i.e., center posts)
Out - these are connected to the thru-hole inputs of your amplifier board for each channel (L & R)
Ground - these are connected to your ground lugs on each of your RCA connectors and to the signal ground thru-hole connections on your amp.
This is another diagram showing how a volume pot is connected to a Sonic Impact T-amp. The connections are similar to what you are trying achieve:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/68380-help-wiring-replacement-potentiometer-sonic-t.html#post773160 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/68380-help-wiring-replacement-potentiometer-sonic-t.html#post773160)
-
Here's my TPA3116 placed in a decor box from Tuesday Morning. The top is a piece of plexi glass cut at Lowe's and spray painted black. The knob is from Radio Shack. I hate power bricks hanging off the back of amps so I built this one inside. The PS One is a good companion to the TPA and this one is a highly modded 5501.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94602)
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94603)
-
The TPA3116 pairs well with the $50 Chinese tube amp from ebay. I found the 3116 more powerful and resolving than the Sure TK2050/Meanwell. Also outperforms the Topping TP21 and Dayton DTA100.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94604)
-
I just received my Sure TPA3110D2 board and am looking for advice on two points: adding an on/off switch and replacing the power-supply capacitors.
How (and where) do I wire up an on/off switch? Is a dual pole single throw the right kind of toggle I should be using?
Looking underneath the board, it looks like the power-supply capacitors are through-hole, but with a non-standard distance between the leads (about 3mm, by my ruler). Are people just bending the leads to fit the holes? (Seems obvious, but I figure I'll ask anyway.)
Any and all help appreciated!
-
Hey, Poultry, cool build! Dig the steampunk look! 8) Would love to see the amp itself and maybe the seller's name. Thanks from a fellow Gamecock.
-
For the caps, the spacing is 3.5mm. I just slightly bent the leads on 5mm caps to fit.
-
How (and where) do I wire up an on/off switch? Is a dual pole single throw the right kind of toggle I should be using?
A regular toggle switch (SPST) will do. It's easiest to run the DC power to J6 (VCC/GND). Run one wire from the negative post of your DC jack to GND. Run another wire from the positive post of your DC jack to one of the terminals of the SPST switch. Run another from the other SPST terminal to VCC. Just make sure not to get your wires crossed :D.
Mike
-
Some pictures...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94607)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94612)
DC power wires on the left side.
The black negative wire to the board (GND), the red positive wires to switch and then to board (VCC).
My wife made the table quilt thingy...
Mike
-
Thanks, Brad. Thanks, mboxler. That's exactly what I needed to know.
-
Here's my TPA3116 placed in a decor box from Tuesday Morning. The top is a piece of plexi glass cut at Lowe's and spray painted black. The knob is from Radio Shack. I hate power bricks hanging off the back of amps so I built this one inside. The PS One is a good companion to the TPA and this one is a highly modded 5501.
Nice work Poultrygeist. I like the wood and Plexiglass finish. Thanks for sharing.
I agree that a modded Playstation makes for a great Red Book CD player.
-
Hey, Poultry, cool build! Dig the steampunk look! 8) Would love to see the amp itself and maybe the seller's name. Thanks from a fellow Gamecock.
Thanks Bud,
I got mine from "doublehorse8878" as well as the 35 cm cable with RCA jack. The cable plugs directly into the board so there's no soldering.
Since the power brick resides within the enclosure I tapped directly into it's power cord to install the fuse and a two pole on/off switch.
I used a 12V lap top power brick which gives as much or maybe more usable output than I get from the Dayton DTA100 with it's 24V PS.
Hi rhing, at $15 this is a no brainer purchase. Just the fun of figuring out the case and install was worth the price of admission. Almost forgot to mention how lovely it sounds with a C&C favorite - the Pioneer BS22.
We should all be thankful we live in the age of incredibly affordable high fidelity.
-
Some pictures...
DC power wires on the left side.
The black negative wire to the board (GND), the red positive wires to switch and then to board (VCC).
My wife made the table quilt thingy...
Mike
That's a really great implementation of one of those Radio Shack black ABS plastic project boxes. Very neat wiring job, which involves a bit more work than some people realize. This nice build definitely falls into line with the Cheap and Cheerful spirit.
Did you replace the two stock electrolytic caps on the TPA3110D2 board? If not, I would recommend the Elna Silmic II 1,000uF / 25V or Panasonic FM 1,500uF / 25 electrolytic caps. Alternatively, Wushuliu and Lacro have tried the Nichicon KZ Muse electrolytic caps with positive results.
Rich
-
Thanks, Rich...
The box was VERY easy to work with. 1/4 " pilot holes everywhere, then a step bit get get each one just right. I am going to replace the silver screws with black ones, so the cost could go up a few cents :thumb:.
I left the stock caps. Sounded so good I didn't bother. I just received two more boards. I plan on building a chassis that will contain two Sure boards and some Marchand XM1's to Bi-amp my Klipshorns. I'll upgrade those with better caps.
Mike
-
Thanks, Rich...
The box was VERY easy to work with. 1/4 " pilot holes everywhere, then a step bit get get each one just right. I am going to replace the silver screws with black ones, so the cost could go up a few cents :thumb:.
I left the stock caps. Sounded so good I didn't bother. I just received two more boards. I plan on building a chassis that will contain two Sure boards and some Marchand XM1's to Bi-amp my Klipshorns. I'll upgrade those with better caps.
Mike
Sure TPA3110 amps + Klipsch Heritage Speakers = Heaven
I can vouch that the Sure TPA3110 amps and Klipsch Heritage speakers are a great combination. I'm thoroughly enjoying this amp with my Klipsch Forte II's.
-
The top is a piece of plexi glass cut at Lowe's and spray painted black.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94602)
Nice "cheap and cheerful" case. Painting the plexi is a good idea. I was looking for smoked plexi for mine, but couldn't find any locally.
BTW/ here's a tip I developed for cutting plexiglass: score BOTH sides with a utility knife and a straightedge. If you have a table saw, place the fence near one end of the table. Put the sheet of plexi under the fence close to the score line. Lock the fence down. Just lift the free end of the sheet, and it will break exactly at the score line. You could do the same thing with a couple of boards and clamps, but the tablesaw fence method is really quick and easy.
-
I ordered one of these Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amps directly from Yuan Jing Audio to compare to my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp:
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
Wow! This sounds really nice. I have a faint buzz that I suspect comes from the long hookup cable that came with the amp. My speaker binding post connections should be shortened as well. When playing music, I don't hear it, but it bugs me because I'm OCD about noise in my system. I may need to add my own custom-made shielded cables later on, but just wanted to listen to it in stock form first. Compared to my most recent Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 build, the soundstage is deeper with more space between musicians, the imaging seems to be well focused, the bass is deeper and it sounds warmer to me than my modded TPA3110D2 Class D and TDA7297 chip amps. Keep in mind, this is only based on some limited listening on SACDs and CDs I am very familiar with. I really have to give this amp more time and listen to more music to make a call in this, but I think this amp is very promising in stock form.
One thing to note is that they have the left channel connections labeled as right channel and vice versa, but it's nothing like feeding the right input and getting the output on the left channel. The channels are consistent, they are just mislabeled. At least the power supply terminal connections are properly labeled. I checked those before plugging the amp in.
I am using my trusty modified Power One SMPS set at a 12.5V DC / 6A output. I don't think I'll need more power than this for my 98dB Klipsch Forte IIs unless someone really convinces me that I need to upgrade to more power.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94789)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94790)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94791)
-
Nice "cheap and cheerful" case. Painting the plexi is a good idea. I was looking for smoked plexi for mine, but couldn't find any locally.
BTW/ here's a tip I developed for cutting plexiglass: score BOTH sides with a utility knife and a straightedge. If you have a table saw, place the fence near one end of the table. Put the sheet of plexi under the fence close to the score line. Lock the fence down. Just lift the free end of the sheet, and it will break exactly at the score line. You could do the same thing with a couple of boards and clamps, but the tablesaw fence method is really quick and easy.
Thanks for the tip. I have a table saw and will try your method next time. The guy at Lowe's was in a hurry and botched two sheets before one broke even.
One tip on spray painting plexi. Make sure it's absolutely clean and lint free and paint only the underside.
-
I ordered one of these Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amps directly from Yuan Jing Audio to compare to my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp:
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
Wow! This sounds really nice. I have a faint buzz that I suspect comes from the long hookup cable that came with the amp. My speaker binding post connections should be shortened as well. When playing music, I don't hear it, but it bugs me because I'm OCD about noise in my system. I may need to add my own custom-made shielded cables later on, but just wanted to listen to it in stock form first. Compared to my most recent Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 build, the soundstage is deeper with more space between musicians, the imaging seems to be well focused, the bass is deeper and it sounds warmer to me than my modded TPA3110D2 Class D and TDA7297 chip amps. Keep in mind, this is only based on some limited listening on SACDs and CDs I am very familiar with. I really have to give this amp more time and listen to more music to make a call in this, but I think this amp is very promising in stock form.
One thing to note is that they have the left channel connections labeled as right channel and vice versa, but it's nothing like feeding the right input and getting the output on the left channel. The channels are consistent, they are just mislabeled. At least the power supply terminal connections are properly labeled. I checked those before plugging the amp in.
I am using my trusty modified Power One SMPS set at a 12.5V DC / 6A output. I don't think I'll need more power than this for my 98dB Klipsch Forte IIs unless someone really convinces me that I need to upgrade to more power.
Nice. I think I'll get one and call it a day on the TPA amps. I think this YJ board is the one we've been waiting for in terms of parts quality and performance for the price. Not to mention it looks much more mod-friendly.
I'd be curious to know how it compares to the TBI Millenia.
Still wonder why no other companies are going retail with these chips already. There's a niche in the market these could easily fill.
-
Still wonder why no other companies are going retail with these chips already. There's a niche in the market these could easily fill.
They still don't have the marketing cachet of Tripath and Class-T. Even though they're better chips, enthusiasts are still looking for the "T-amp" designation for trustworthy class D power from a chip amp. We have Lepai, Sonic Impact, and Dayton Audio to thank for that.
-
I ordered one of these Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amps directly from Yuan Jing Audio to compare to my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp:
Do you have your own Gulfstream, and just go pick-up a new board from China at will? :icon_lol: How do you get these so quickly? :scratch:
Looking forward to your thoughts on this new board.
-
Do you have your own Gulfstream, and just go pick-up a new board from China at will? :icon_lol: How do you get these so quickly? :scratch:
Looking forward to your thoughts on this new board.
I just ordered the board last weekend and it was shipped to California within a week. Being on the West coast certainly helps, but Yuan Jing ships out of Hong Kong, which also helps with getting Chinese goods more quickly.
I'm spinning vinyl now, and I can't turn the volume knob up too much since this amp's output is significantly higher than my TPA3110D2 amp. Even though I do not need all this power, the additional power provides some incredible headroom for reproducing complex passages without the soundstage collapsing. The soundstage seems larger in all three dimensions with this amp. It has a big sound like a good KT88 push-pull amp. I can't call it tube bloom, but it is almost like that. The bass is also stronger and deeper, but not in a boomy since. I just hear more bass detail, and I can also feel it more. Spatial cues like concert hall acoustics are more apparent. I get the same thing from my TPA3110D2 amp, but this amp sounds more relaxed reproducing these effects.
Even though they are similar amps, the TPA3116D2 sounds better to my ears. My guess is that the TPA3116D2 amp is more recent technology from TI. In stock form, this amp is as smooth as my Elna Silmic II-modified TPA3110D2 amp. I haven't even begun thinking about mods yet.
-
Turns out this $49 Chinese 6N3 tube preamp from ebay is absolutely stunning with the 3116.
I thought I liked the 3116 just as an integrated amp but there's no comparison to the sound with this tube preamp. I tried the 3116 with a Bottlehead Foreplay III expecting even more but the magic wasn't there.
If I hadn't already built them as separates I'd put both in the same case.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74257)
-
Turns out this $49 Chinese 6N3 tube preamp from ebay is absolutely stunning with the 3116.
I thought I liked the 3116 just as an integrated amp but there's no comparison to the sound with this tube preamp. I tried the 3116 with a Bottlehead Foreplay III expecting even more but the magic wasn't there.
If I hadn't already built them as separates I'd put both in the same case.
I completely agree that tube preamps and these TPA31xx amps are magical combinations. I recently installed two tested and matched pairs of JJ E88CC/6922 tubes in my ARC LS7 line stage and two tested and matched pairs of Genelex Gold Lion E88CC/6922 tubes in my ARC PH5 phono stage, and this combination with either the Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116D2 amp or the Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp make great music together.
I'll have to share the eBay tube preamp with my friend in Alabama. He just purchased one of a Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116D2 amps like mine, and he'll enjoy it more with a tube front end. Interesting that the amp didn't do as well with an Bottlehead tube preamp. It might be an impedance mismatch between the low output impedance of the tube preamp and high input impedance of the TPA31xx amp.
-
Yes there is a mismatch somewhere.
While the 3116 and Bottlehead preamp driving Lowthers sounds congested I can't get enough of the 3116 and 6N3 preamp driving the Frugal Horns.
-
Is there RF issues with Bottlehead? What was the lack of sound? You want to have the impedence higher on amp side. There is a prefered ratio, but the purpose of most preamps is to be a buffer to lower source impedence; gain isn't explicitly the value for a preamp but can help some setups.
I'd be worried about RF getting forced into preamp since it's an easier path most likely. It depends on power source for the amp. Once that starts it may go towards the signal side, which can be burned up via resistors with a ground path, your speakers and the grounding through PSU.
It's a partial flaw to some small amp setups.
-
I made some custom shielded cables for my Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amp using some Mundorf Silver-Gold wire, Teflon tubing, Teflon tape, Tinned Copper braided shielding, Techflex sleeving and some heat shrink. The noise floor has decreased going to shorter, better cables. I kept the 3-pin connector and wrestled with the crimped pins to reuse them. I am very pleased with this amp. To my ears, it sounds slightly better than my latest Sure Electronics TPA3110D2, but not by much. It definitely sounds better than my TPA7297 chip amp and it easily beats any Tripath Class D (T-amp) I've had:
- Modified Sonic Impact TA2024
- Virtue Audio Two with TK2050
- Helder HiFi TA2020 MkIII
- SMSL SA-S1 TA2020)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94829)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94831)
-
An easy next mod would be trying out different inductors. I and KJA at diyaudio were impressed with Bourns, but there are many options. Lots of fun to be had.
-
Is there RF issues with Bottlehead? What was the lack of sound? You want to have the impedence higher on amp side. There is a prefered ratio, but the purpose of most preamps is to be a buffer to lower source impedence; gain isn't explicitly the value for a preamp but can help some setups.
I'd be worried about RF getting forced into preamp since it's an easier path most likely. It depends on power source for the amp. Once that starts it may go towards the signal side, which can be burned up via resistors with a ground path, your speakers and the grounding through PSU.
It's a partial flaw to some small amp setups.
No issues whatsoever with the ForeplayIII/Paramours driving the Lowthers but when I substituted the 3116 for the Paramours things deteriorated. I use an active crossover but no amount of tweaking brought the sound to what I would expect from the fine sounding 3116.
-
I love my red board 3116 but wonder if there are sonic improvements with the blue board or is it just easier to mod?
-
My opinion--so take it for what it's worth--is that the YJ blue board's metallized Polypropylene input caps impart a slightly different sonic signature than the YJ red board's SMD input caps (presumably ceramic-type). Different dielectrics can impart different sound quality.
I don't have the YJ red board, but I do have the Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp, which uses the SMD input and output caps. Quite a few people had advised me that the Sure amp and the YJ red board sounded very similar except for the YJ's higher power. The YJ blue amp and the Sure TPA3110 both sound good and more alike than different due to the fact that they use Texas Instruments' Class D amp chips. The Sure board has a more crisp, incisive sound while the YJ blue board has a smoother presentation. Some may prefer one over the other, but I like the YJ blue board more, because I like the smoother presentation. This was evident when I compared both amps playing a Decca CD of Holst's "The Planets." This is one of those recordings that can sound really bad on a bad or average system, or awesome on a very good system. Both amps sound great with this recording, but the strings on the Sure amp sounded slightly more steely and strident, while they sounded less strident and more natural with the YJ blue board. Both amps do an admirable job with maintaining their soundstages on complex passages. The YJ blue amp seems to have more presence and a slightly stronger bass than the Sure amp. Keep in mind that I'm comparing a stock YJ blue amp to a modified Sure amp (Elna Silmics, additional Panasonic FM cap on power supply connection). With careful mods of the YJ blue amp with new Bourns inductors like wushuliu recommended along with a few other tweaks, the YJ could be a giant killer. For now, I am really enjoying the stock YJ blue amp. For $26, this is a no-brainer to try out, even if you already have the YJ red amp.
-
I ordered one of these Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amps directly from Yuan Jing Audio to compare to my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp:
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
How hard do you think it would be to convert that board to a single-channel 100 Watt version? I believe this is called "parallel bridge tied load" or PBTL.
Seller "audiobah" on ebay has a "Amplifier board, TPA3116 Class D, 2x50W or 1x100W - Stereo or Full PBTL" (current link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-or-1x100W-Stereo-or-Full-PBTL-/161224189424)). I.e. you can buy it pre-wired for mono. But it costs more than the Yuan Jing, and the YJ just looks nicer to me.
I'd like to have the TPA31xx sound in a higher-power package (>100 watts at 4 ohms ideally). Two of these in PBTL mode in the same chassis running off a single power supply would be nice I think.
-
When I hook up my stock Sure TPA3110D2 to an iPod (via the iPod's headphone jack) and my headphones (via the speaker outputs on the amp), everything works fine. But when I replace my iPod with a DAC (connected via USB to a MacBook), I get a very loud buzzing. Any suggestions on what's wrong and how to fix it?
-
How are you powering it? What's the DAC's output impedance? What handles volume?
-
How are you powering it? What's the DAC's output impedance? What handles volume?
The DAC is an CDAC+, an optimized ODAC that's described here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694411/cdac-modded-odac (http://www.head-fi.org/t/694411/cdac-modded-odac)
I'm not sure of the output impedance for the CDAC+ but I've read the ODAC has an output impedance of over 400 ohms. Unlike the ODAC, the CDAC+ has an external 5V switched power supply.
The Sure itself is powered by an 18v smps that I salvaged from an old router. I'm using the MacBook's system volume to control the volume.
EDIT: I tried a different DAC (standard ODAC powered via USB) and a different power supply for the Sure amp (18V wall wart from an ancient laptop). The buzz persisted, but less loud. I then tried the ODAC again, but replaced the RCA connection to the amp with a TSR cable. Still an annoyingly audible hum/static, but far less loud than with the CDAC+ and the loud buzz.
Also, note that the Sure is not equipped with ferrite beads yet.
-
What if the MacBook is running on battery?
-
The DAC is an CDAC+, an optimized ODAC that's described here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694411/cdac-modded-odac (http://www.head-fi.org/t/694411/cdac-modded-odac)
I'm not sure of the output impedance for the CDAC+ but I've read the ODAC has an output impedance of over 400 ohms. Unlike the ODAC, the CDAC+ has an external 5V switched power supply.
The Sure itself is powered by an 18v smps that I salvaged from an old router. I'm using the MacBook's system volume to control the volume.
EDIT: I tried a different DAC (standard ODAC powered via USB) and a different power supply for the Sure amp (18V wall wart from an ancient laptop). The buzz persisted, but less loud. I then tried the ODAC again, but replaced the RCA connection to the amp with a TSR cable. Still an annoyingly audible hum/static, but far less loud than with the CDAC+ and the loud buzz.
Also, note that the Sure is not equipped with ferrite beads yet.
Did you try taking your DAC out of the picture, and just running the Motherboard DAC on the MacBook? I use a Schiit Modi USB DAC, and it's all dead quiet with the 3110 amp (with volume pot) on 2 different computers. Also, try a 12V battery to power the amp instead of the PS.
-
Did you try taking your DAC out of the picture, and just running the Motherboard DAC on the MacBook? I use a Schiit Modi USB DAC, and it's all dead quiet with the 3110 amp (with volume pot) on 2 different computers. Also, try a 12V battery to power the amp instead of the PS.
The only way I could get my Modi to stop buzzing was to use the front USB 2.0 ports on my Windows 7 PC. I had trouble with the 2.0 and 3.0 ports on the back.
Unfortunately, I had to take the Modi out of the loop, due to constant static issues, most of which would mess up other USB devices, resulting in a reboot.
Too bad...the little Modi sounded great :(
Mike
-
An easy next mod would be trying out different inductors. I and KJA at diyaudio were impressed with Bourns, but there are many options. Lots of fun to be had.
I've already assembled a BOM for parts to order from either Mouser or Digikey. I'm going to keep my stock board intact and order another amp for future modification.
I have more listening to do, but I think the Nichicon or Panasonic electrolytic caps would be better for this amp rather than the Elna Silmic II's on the power supply rails (i.e., two caps on either side of the TPA3116D2 chip). KJA at diyAudio advised me that he really likes the Nichicon ES Muse bipolar caps. This amp is already warm sounding and can benefit from more neutral-sounding power supply caps. I already have a pair of Nichicon KZ Muse 470uF / 25V caps that I never used in a previous project. Will I sacrifice any bass moving from 1,000uF / 25V to 470uF / 25V caps?
Both Digikey and Mouser carry the Bourns toroid inductors (Bourns PN 2100HT-100-V-RC) you and KJA really liked with the YJ red TPA3116D2 amp. With the confined space for each inductor, is it possible to bend the inductor legs to orient the inductors at a 45 degree angle rather than straight across the solder pads?
I'm also considering Wima MKP10 metallized Polypropylene film caps to replace the Epcos B32923 X2-class metallized Polypropylene film caps. I've used them before as signal coupling caps and they sound great after 20-30 hours of listening. For now, I still have more listening to do. This amp will require more burn-in time before I make any final judgment calls on mods and tweaks.
The only way I could get my Modi to stop buzzing was to use the front USB 2.0 ports on my Windows 7 PC. I had trouble with the 2.0 and 3.0 ports on the back.
Unfortunately, I had to take the Modi out of the loop, due to constant static issues, most of which would mess up other USB devices, resulting in a reboot.
Too bad...the little Modi sounded great :(
Mike
Go analog. Vinyl rules!
-
Following over from Klipsch and AK forums since there seems to be more talk about this amp here. It's said the little yuanjing 6n3 + 6z4 rectifier pre-amp is a great match with the TPA3116. My DAC/Preamp has much more precise volume control (and a remote) - Is there any reason I can't just run the yuanjing pre wide open for the tube buffer benefits?
-
Thanks, all, for your tips on my noise problem. I decided to take the path of least resistance and worked with my ODAC connected via TRS cable to the Sure (this setup had the least noise in my initial tests). It turns out the problem was with an external hard drive connected to my MacBook via a Thunderbolt adapt. I disconnected that one external drive and it's much quieter. It's not dead silent now, but a slight hum is only audible between songs and during very quiet passages. BTW, unplugging the USB drives made no difference. And unplugging the power adapter from the MacBook actually made it noisier.
So far, very much enjoying this little stock amp with my Hifiman HE-6 headphones. Better than the tube amp I was using. Most appreciated difference: pianos sound like pianos. (Something about the attack and decay with the tube amp just didn't sound right.)
-
Did you have both hd and mac adapter unplugged with more noise? This sounds like ground loop. If not a USB transformer might work.
-
If the hard drive is connected to the thunderbolt/firewire adapter, I get a lot of noise. But if I unplug the hard drive but leave the adapter in place, it sounds just fine.
It's bugging me that connecting the DAC to the amp with RCA cables generates a lot of noise, but not with with a TRS cable. Should the hookup wire that connects the female RCAs to the amp board be shielded?
-
Did you try disconnecting the laptop AND hard drive from the wall?
Again, it sounds like a ground loop.
The hard drive may be grounding through the amp, and so may be your laptop.
A friend of mine gets noise if his speakers (active monitors) are plugged into the same strip as computer charger. If one is plugged into a device with ground loop blocker no noise. Unpluggin the laptop charger also gets rid of noise. He uses USB device for playback (He makes music).
If both devices are plugged into power strip with ground blocker he gets noise.
-
If the hard drive is connected to the thunderbolt/firewire adapter, I get a lot of noise. But if I unplug the hard drive but leave the adapter in place, it sounds just fine.
It's bugging me that connecting the DAC to the amp with RCA cables generates a lot of noise, but not with with a TRS cable. Should the hookup wire that connects the female RCAs to the amp board be shielded?
I can tell you that using the Ferrite beads and shielded cables from the RCA connectors to the Panasonic volume pot on the TPA3110D2 reduced noise. I still hear a very faint hiss when I turn the volume up with no music playing. It can't hurt, but I suspect you will need trace your ground paths too.
With the Yuan Jing blue amp I received last week, I had this faint hum in the background that was bugging me. I added shielded cables, and it did reduce other noise, but not the faint hum. This faint hum seemed a bit stronger on the right channel. I looked at everything on the amp and around the amp including cabling. I noticed the the right channel input cap was oriented in an opposite direction compared to the left channel cap. I desoldered the right channel cap and oriented it identically to the left channel cap. In desoldering the right channel cap, I noticed a cold solder joint. I could practically pull out one lead of the cap without having to reflow the solder. So. I reoriented the right channel cap and touched up most of the thru-hole solder joints on the Yuan Jing blue amp board. I connected it to my preamp, and voila, no hum, hiss or any other noise. Who knows what the real root cause of the hum was, but it's gone now. Sounds even better with a dead silent background.
By the way, my left and right channel caps are now oriented such that when you read the writing on the side of the cap, the signal is flowing from right to left (i.e., opposite direction from normal reading direction of left to right).
-
I was considering one of these...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINISHED-Class-D-AMP-TPA3116-2-1-amplifier-2-50W-100-W-AQ-/400567805660?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d43b3a6dc (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FINISHED-Class-D-AMP-TPA3116-2-1-amplifier-2-50W-100-W-AQ-/400567805660?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item5d43b3a6dc)
Working voltage: DC18V to DC24V -- Any recommendations for a power supply and where to buy?
-
Those ones don't sound good with the 100w channel added. Sorry to say.
-
For the moment, I can live with the slight hum. Even wearing headphones, it's only slightly louder than the ambient noise around here. The real annoyance is not knowing why connecting the DAC and amp with a TRS cable gives me just the slight hum while RCA cables spew out the noise. I know when I figure it out, it will be facepalm time, but until then....argh.
-
TRS = 110-165ohm . It's make the voltage divide of the ground loop more toward the other devices.
Not trying to be rude but I think it's clear what's going on and either you are not believing or don't understand.
You still have yet to say if you tried fully battery powered playback except the amp.
What kind of solution would you like? Price?
-
Those ones don't sound good with the 100w channel added. Sorry to say.
Which are the better ones? Is it plug and play, as in it's not DIY, but mounted inside a chassis? And what is the preferred power supply?
-
If you buy the $5 RCA gray cable that snaps into the socket on the board it's plug and play. This one is playing from the PS1.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94892)
-
My apologies (and embarrassment), Salis Audio, for my ignorance on matters electronic. I did, though, run everything but the amp from the laptop's battery.
...BTW, unplugging the USB drives made no difference. And unplugging the power adapter from the MacBook actually made it noisier....
Now, I offer cause for my further embarrassment. I retried everything again today. Except I cleared away cables from other electronic devices that were nearby and used a different pair of RCA cables. And the problem with using RCA cables has disappeared. The silence is pitch black (regardless of whether the laptop and DAC are powered by the laptop battery or laptop power adapter). Frankly, I think it's the cheap eBay RCA connectors I used on the amp. (But if I'm wrong on this, please educate me.)
Thanks again, all, for your help.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94892)
The above is cheap, but not very cheerful.
The image below is more tearful than cheerful.
I'd like something a little more on the cheerful side.
(http://s807.photobucket.com/user/jhdirks/media/IMG_4855_zps6678b140.jpg.html?filters[user]=138549538&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1)
-
After soldering each wire in place, I slid a short segment of 14AWG Teflon tubing over each soldered joint to avoid possible shorts. It also serves as a strain relief.
Where do you get that Teflon tubing? Basic google searching has only resulted in bulk quantities that are quite expensive.
As an alternative: how about coating the soldered pot leads with a big glob of hot glue? Definitely cheap and easy, but is there any downside?
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94601)
Naked board amps like many naked people look better with clothes on. A $5 decor box and a little imagination goes a long way.
The above is cheap, but not very cheerful.
The image below is more tearful than cheerful.
I'd like something a little more on the cheerful side.
(http://s807.photobucket.com/user/jhdirks/media/IMG_4855_zps6678b140.jpg.html?filters[user]=138549538&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=1)
-
Ordered two naked... http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w)
One of these... http://www.yuan-jing.com/ac-dc-adapter-universal-switching-mode-power-supply-smps-24v-5a (http://www.yuan-jing.com/ac-dc-adapter-universal-switching-mode-power-supply-smps-24v-5a)
And this... http://www.yuan-jing.com/Stereo-RCA-Interconnection-Board (http://www.yuan-jing.com/Stereo-RCA-Interconnection-Board)
Decided to buy two amps in case one goes down on me. Scary thought.
-
Where do you get that Teflon tubing? Basic google searching has only resulted in bulk quantities that are quite expensive.
As an alternative: how about coating the soldered pot leads with a big glob of hot glue? Definitely cheap and easy, but is there any downside?
I usually pick up PTFE (Teflon) thin wall tubing at Fry's Electronics, which is a large chain electronics retailer in the Western states. If you don't have anything local, you can buy online:
http://www.frys.com/product/74209?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (http://www.frys.com/product/74209?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)
-
This is how she looks topless.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94972)
-
That's a big box for a small amp. What's all going on in there? And what are you using for a power supply?
-
That's a big box for a small amp. What's all going on in there? And what are you using for a power supply?
Looks like the two silver "bricks" are 12 volt power supplies wires in series to get 24 volts.
Wind Chaser, if this stuff is new to you, then you are in for a treat! If not...sorry for the newbie advice.
I'd get some standoffs, if you don't already have some. I like the aluminum 4-40 one's on ebay. You'll need some 4-40 screws as well. These amps are VERY light, and if you secure them on a small piece of plywood or the like, then the cables won't drag it all over the place.
Then you can connect the power supply, speaker wires, etc. to the amp, plug in the PS, and enjoy. From there, you can go to the next step...a real enclosure. You can reuse the standoffs to mount in the case.
Again, sorry if this doesn't help. The neat thing about these amps is learning all the other stuff, like switches, jacks, binding posts, ...
Mike
-
How hard do you think it would be to convert that board to a single-channel 100 Watt version? I believe this is called "parallel bridge tied load" or PBTL.
Seller "audiobah" on ebay has a "Amplifier board, TPA3116 Class D, 2x50W or 1x100W - Stereo or Full PBTL" (current link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-or-1x100W-Stereo-or-Full-PBTL-/161224189424)). I.e. you can buy it pre-wired for mono. But it costs more than the Yuan Jing, and the YJ just looks nicer to me.
I'd like to have the TPA31xx sound in a higher-power package (>100 watts at 4 ohms ideally). Two of these in PBTL mode in the same chassis running off a single power supply would be nice I think.
To answer my own question, here's the info from DIY Audio (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-14.html#post3715550), post #671 by Virpz describes how to convert the red PCB board to PBTL. Could probably be used as a basis for doing the same on the YJ blue boards, but it's a little above my skill/comfort level.
I emailed YJ to see if they'd do the PBTL conversion for me, but no response. :(
Does anyone have experience comparing these to the Class D Audio IRS2090-based amps? I've got the SDS-470 that I'm super happy with... that's in theory good for 600 WPC (at 4 ohms). I know my normal listening levels don't get anywhere near that, but the headroom is always nice. I wonder if I dropped down the to 50 WPC of the TPA3116 if it would be a downgrade. If I could at least maintain the same performance, I could get away with a lot smaller box, presumably cooler-running and using less power... tempting!
-
Looks like the two silver "bricks" are 12 volt power supplies wires in series to get 24 volts.
Wind Chaser, if this stuff is new to you, then you are in for a treat! If not...sorry for the newbie advice.
I'd get some standoffs, if you don't already have some. I like the aluminum 4-40 one's on ebay. You'll need some 4-40 screws as well. These amps are VERY light, and if you secure them on a small piece of plywood or the like, then the cables won't drag it all over the place.
Then you can connect the power supply, speaker wires, etc. to the amp, plug in the PS, and enjoy. From there, you can go to the next step...a real enclosure. You can reuse the standoffs to mount in the case.
Again, sorry if this doesn't help. The neat thing about these amps is learning all the other stuff, like switches, jacks, binding posts, ...
Hi Mike,
I had played around with the DIY Paradise Charlize about 7 or 8 years ago. Don't recall exactly how (or if) I mounted them. I had two and the plan was to mount one amp on each baffle with 2 Visaton B200's. The Charlize was a very nice amp, and it was quite a bit more costly than the TPA 3116.
Thanks for the tip on the standoffs, but I'm hoping to get them locally.
-
I am using my trusty modified Power One SMPS set at a 12.5V DC / 6A output. I don't think I'll need more power than this for my 98dB Klipsch Forte IIs unless someone really convinces me that I need to upgrade to more power.
Rhing...
I am confused. Doesn't this board require 24V DC?
Yaun Jing site specs:
Voltage Range: DC 18V ~ 26V
Recommended Voltage: DC 24V / 2 ~ 6A
-
Rhing...
I am confused. Doesn't this board require 24V DC?
Yaun Jing site specs:
Voltage Range: DC 18V ~ 26V
Recommended Voltage: DC 24V / 2 ~ 6A
If you review the Texas Instruments TPA3116D2 datasheet, the voltage range for operation is 4.5 V – 26 V, so a 12V power supply with 3A or higher output will power the amp fine, especially with more efficient speakers.
Some people use less efficient speakers that require more power, so a higher wattage power supply like a Mean Well RS-150-15 or RS-150-24 SMPS might be better. However, some on the diyAudio.com forum thread on these amps have claimed that using anything higher that 21V results is degraded sound quality.
-
If you review the Texas Instruments TPA3116D2 datasheet, the voltage range for operation is 4.5 V – 26 V, so a 12V power supply with 3A or higher output will power the amp fine, especially with more efficient speakers.
Some people use less efficient speakers that require more power, so a higher wattage power supply like a Mean Well RS-150-15 or RS-150-24 SMPS might be better. However, some on the diyAudio.com forum thread on these amps have claimed that using anything higher that 21V results is degraded sound quality.
Thanks!
-
Turns out this $49 Chinese 6N3 tube preamp from ebay is absolutely stunning with the 3116.
I thought I liked the 3116 just as an integrated amp but there's no comparison to the sound with this tube preamp. I tried the 3116 with a Bottlehead Foreplay III expecting even more but the magic wasn't there.
If I hadn't already built them as separates I'd put both in the same case.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74257)
any thoughts on the BH Quickie 1.1 with its 3s4 tubes?
-
I got one in the mail. We'll see how it does... The TDA7297 is still one of the most transparent things I've heard.
I played around with t-amps for few years as a hobby, just got my first chip amp TDA7297, hooked it up to small desktop speakers. To my ears it sounds surprisingly good. I am excited to connect to my main full-range and see. I agree it is excellent and cost me $7.
-
I played around with t-amps for few years as a hobby, just got my first chip amp TDA7297, hooked it up to small desktop speakers. To my ears it sounds surprisingly good. I am excited to connect to my main full-range and see. I agree it is excellent and cost me $7.
I also have a TDA7297 Class A/B chip amp that I had assembled into an enclosure and upgraded with an Alps volume pot, some Mundorf Supreme film caps, Mundorf Silver-Gold hookup wire and a Panasonic 2,200 uF / 25V power supply cap.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95248)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95249)
This is a very fine sounding amp--much better than the Tripath amps I've owned. However, the bass on the chip amp itself (not on my own personal implementation) is reported on the ST Micro datasheet to begin rolling off at 40Hz. If you have speakers that go down to 31-35Hz, you will not hear really low notes. My modest-powered Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 goes deeper than the TDA7297. To my ears, the mids and highs are clearer sounding with the Texas Instruments Class D amps with greater detail in terms of attack and decay. I followed Salis Audio's advise and removed the polarity protection diode, and that improved the sound quite a bit, but the Class D amps are better.
The Texas Instruments amps cost more, but provide greater performance for the extra expense. I liken the TPA3110/TPA3116 amps to be like refined, next generation T-amps. Any shortcomings with Tripath amps were either reduced or eliminated, and the bandwidth and tonality were improved.
-
Rhing...
Will your new TPA3116D2 board fit in the same size box you have used for your other small amp builds? BTW/ what are the dimensions of the new stock board? Also, any more listening impressions?
Thanks,
Lacro
-
Rhing...
Will your new TPA3116D2 board fit in the same size box you have used for your other small amp builds? BTW/ what are the dimensions of the new stock board? Also, any more listening impressions?
Thanks,
Lacro
The Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116D2 "blue" amp measures about 4" L x 2.25" W x 1.2" H, so it would be a tight fit into the Context Engineering 4006H case I used with the Sure Electronics TPA-3110D2 amp. I want to add a volume pot and possibly a Panasonic 2,200uF / 25V at the power supply connection. I'm thinking of using a Context Engineering 4012H case for this amp, the same case I used for my TDA7297 amp build. Even though it's not much bigger than the smaller Context Engineering case, it's longer, taller and wider to accommodate taller capacitors like Elna Silmic II electrolytic caps as power supply caps.
I might also incorporate input transformers like Jensen JT-11P-1 or Lundahl LL1690 line level input balancing transformers to take advantage of the differential inputs (LINP and LINN, and RINP and RINN), so an even larger enclosure would be required.
I've got more time on the Yuan Jing "blue" amp, and I really like this amp a lot. I've also got more time with my modified Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp. These amps sound really similar, almost identical, but the Yuan Jing "blue" seems to be able to project a larger soundstage with slightly better separation between performers. That said, the modified Sure TPA3110D2 sounds cleaner, especially on complex passages with some music. My guess is that the Yuan Jing can be improved in this area with some mods like:
- Better input caps such as Wima MKP10 metallized Polypropylene caps with 22.5mm lead spacing (same as stock Epcos B32923 X2-type metallized Polypropylene caps).
- Better power supply caps like Elna Silmic II 1,000uF / 25V electrolytic caps, or whatever you like for electrolytics.
- Better inductors like the Bourns 10uH toroid inductors.
- Better wiring than the stock cable with the 3-pin connector.
With some minor improvements, I really think this amp can be made into a true giant-killer that would rival some really nice and expensive Class A and Class A/B amps. The addition of a tube preamp in front of these Class D amps really brings the best out of them.
-
Can you provide specific links for the input caps and inductors? I'm getting to the point where I can neatly replace some stock parts, but have no confidence in my ability to pick technically appropriate replacements. I do have some Panasonic FC 1800uf/25v caps that I planned to put into place for the power caps and power supply terminals.
-
Best WIMA's to get. (http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Modded_Wima_Caps.html)
That is if he'll make 1uf ones. Adding 3 of them together doesn't work for input capacitors. The corner frequency goes up when you do that.
-
Can you provide specific links for the input caps and inductors? I'm getting to the point where I can neatly replace some stock parts, but have no confidence in my ability to pick technically appropriate replacements. I do have some Panasonic FC 1800uf/25v caps that I planned to put into place for the power caps and power supply terminals.
I'm assuming that you're referring to the Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116D2 "blue" amp. If that's the amp, then you can purchase these parts from Mouser.com. Sorry, but links die as Webmasters keep shuffling things around on Websites.
Wima MKP10 Film Capacitors 250V 1uF 5% PCM 22.5 11X21X26.5.............PN 505-M101.0/250/5.........
2 pcs..............$2.76/pc
Bourns Fixed Inductors TOROID INDUCTOR 10uH HI TEMP VERTCL MT........PN 652-2100HT-100-V-RC...
4 pcs..............$2.19/pc
Here's JonL's assessment of the Wima MKP10 caps:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg524814#msg524814 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg524814#msg524814)
Note that the end with the outer foil is marked with the vertical black line on the face of the cap. Typically, the outer foil end should be oriented to be closest to ground, output or lower voltage to serve as a quasi-shield for lower noise and better sound quality. I would think this would be the input thru-hole for each cap, but I invite others to correct me if I'm wrong.
It would be nice if tweakaudio.com offered the modified Wima caps in 1uF values with 22.5mm lead spacing, but I have a feeling the cost would be substantially more than $10 or $11 if they did. I would consider the "original" Wima MKP10 caps with the Copper leads, but the only sellers that carry them on eBay are in China, and I am not sure how authentic those caps are.
The Bourns inductors are the ones that Wushuliu prefers. Hope he's right.
-
you are correct, the blue board, sorry for not clarifying. my board landed in california today, so it should be here in TX some time next week. thanks for the part numbers, i think I'll go ahead and just do these upgrades and enjoy the results.
-
I can vouch for the performance of the Wima MKP10 caps and Belden 8864 shielded hookup wire. I restored a Dynaco SCA-35 6BQ5/EL84 integrated amp using Wima MKP10 caps as coupling caps in the phono stage and in the driver stage. The output coupling caps (tubular white caps next to 6BQ5/EL84 tubes) are Sonicap Gen 2 metallized Polypropylene film caps. The new replacement PCBs including the power supply cap and Enhanced Fixed Bias (EFB) board were from Audio Regenesis.
Here are the before and after shots:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95381)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95382)
For the money, the Wima's sound very good, but they do need some time to burn in and really sing. The Belden shielded hookup cables are great for maintaining a low noise floor.
-
great stuff, thanks. and I just noticed mouser is just a couple of cities over from me. even better!
-
great stuff, thanks. and I just noticed mouser is just a couple of cities over from me. even better!
I really like Mouser's service and responsiveness. I was really glad when they picked up Panasonic caps and Elna Silmic II caps. I still have to split orders between them and Digikey, but it's a small inconvenience. You ought to check if Mouser offers will call for local pick-up, and save on shipping although their shipping rates are reasonable when shipping via USPS First Class.
Jameco Electronics and Master Electronics are in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I will buy products from them and pick up my orders at will call. Their will call desk seating areas have many liquidation items that include soldering equipment, power supplies, parts, etc. I am grateful that I work in Silicon Valley where there are many surplus electronics stores and places like Jameco, Master and Fry's Electronics nearby. I also support the little family-owned electronics supply stores like Al Lasher's Electronics in Berkeley, and San Mateo Electronic Supply in San Mateo. I feel like I'm in the geek capital of the U.S.
-
good suggestion. this is TX, so "just a couple of cities from me" means 150 miles round trip. :P
The cost in gas > usps shipping and a couple days of waiting.
-
I've been considering an alternative to my modified Power One MAP110-S148 SMPS power supply, so I've been researching regulated linear power supplies and battery power supplies. While browsing Craigslist, I came across an Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply. A guy had it listed for $20. At discounted prices, these power supplies sell for almost $100. I figured I could meet the guy at his workplace, plug it in and test it with my DMM. He offered to test it for me, since he had a nice Fluke DMM at work. Without a load, the Astron's output measured 14.02V DC. The unit is in excellent shape as the previous owner has had it for years, but never really used it for his HAM radio system.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95473)
When I brought it back home, I cleaned it off and cleaned all the contacts with contact cleaner. It's in mint condition and the enclosure does hum without any damping from the huge power transformer. I just placed a paperback book on top of the case, and that took care of it. I'll probably add some chassis damping sheets later on to deaden the enclosure from vibrating.
After playing music through my system using the Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 "blue" amp with this power supply, I am impressed by the improvements in sound quality.
- The soundstage has grown a bit larger and deeper.
- The imaging is clearer and more stable with complex passages.
- The background is blacker as in less noise (even though I didn't notice any before).
- The tonality is richer. The music has greater presence.
I'll probably evaluate battery power at some point, but I think I'll be content with this power supply for some time. I have yet to test it with my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp.
-
You could mod it. My PSU shames the SMPS I used.
I can give you a BOM, if you like. It's not currently regulated; but I don't think you'll care when you hear it.
Take some pictures of your new one's insides, we'll see what difference could be made.
-
You could mod it. My PSU shames the SMPS I used.
I can give you a BOM, if you like. It's not currently regulated; but I don't think you'll care when you hear it.
Take some pictures of your new one's insides, we'll see what difference could be made.
I figured you would chime in with some ideas. I'll open it up tomorrow after work and snap some photos. I know it's got an oversized EI power transformer, some huge filter caps and two regulators mounted on heat sinks in the rear. For a box that about half the size of a large shoe box, it's pretty heavy. I know there is a site that has mods and maintenance tips. Apparently, Astron power supplies are known for the ruggedness and over engineered designs. For $20 I just couldn't pass it up.
-
I typed a long message... Stupid iphone.... The short of it.
Soft recovery diode bridges (if it doesn't have them) and Felix on it's power cord. Low noise transistors (if they are not). Transformer design prevents other filtration.
-
ummm could someone provide a link to the proper caps to do the upgrade?..and maybe a power supply source...being a novice I need all the help I can get. thanks
-
Quite a red letter evening. My YJ tpa3116 blue board came in tonight. I got it put into place inside the dynaco st-120 chassis. I also happened to read rhing's comments about the linear power supply. Guess who's father in law is a retired electrical engineer + HAM nerd + parts hoarder? So is topped by his place on the way home and he managed to dig out a 12.35v 7A linear power supply for me. It's open chassis, so I probably won't keep it long term, but it's good enough to play around with for now.
I've got all of 10 minutes with my ears on this new combo, but when paired up with my Cornwalls there is no lack of bass or clarity and I can echo all of Rhing's observations. Very cool.
-
Give the YJ 3116 blue amp some more time to burn in. With that power supply, you'll more goodness out of your Cornwalls. Klipsch speakers seem to marry well with these Class D amps.
-
Cool. Now that this board has arrived I'm planning to stop swapping amps for a while. And you were definitely right about getting that noisy switching supply out of the enclosure. I know this board has an output filter, but I'm using a generic I shielded hookup cable between my RCA jacks and the board, no ferrite beads, and the noise floor is silent at 6ft when using my laptop (which was previously a noisy combination).
I didn't notice any cold solder joints and I'm having zero channel imbalance or static issues. I may just not touch a thing and be perfectly content with that.
-
Ferrites are bad for all things audio if yo ask me.
You can't identify the noise that affects class D, except by the improvement of the lack there of... as in it isn't something you can pick out from a set of sounds. You hear its affect on the music, not it. Unless you have a major flaw somewhere; which would make you repair or replace because it'd be obvious.
Snerby what board?
-
here's pics of my amp insides and caseless power supply. eventually I'll rewire that power supply with a new cord for a direct connection to the wall socket and maybe throw it in a case with a power switch and iec socket so I can connect the amplifier via female iec plug.
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp1.jpg)
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp2.jpg)
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp3.jpg)
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp4.jpg)
-
I've seen those Lambda power supplies at the surplus electronics stores here in Silicon Valley for about $5 to $10. I think these must have been popular among scientists and engineers. That's a good score. You might consider 2-3 Panasonic FM 2,200uF / 25V caps wired in parallel next to your YJ amp's power supply input for additional filtering.
-
I think these must have been popular among scientists and engineers.
Thanks! my father in law is a retired electrical engineer, so your assumption is correct so far. :P ..hard to beat free!
Not sure if you noticed, but I do have a panasonic 1800uf/25v currently in place at the amp's power supply input. I wasn't sure how many I could/should stack up there.
-
Thaddeus, how big is that cap in the PSU? Also, is it on the DC side? It looks like you have woefully insufficient capacitance. Voltage my be regulated, but if you don't have capacitance then ripple and stuff is all over.
-
no clue. sounds good though..
-
Sorry, I missed that cap. If it sounds fine in this configuration, stay with that. I am just amazed at the sound quality improvements with a better power supply. I really don't feel any need to mod this thing anymore. So far, I've only added a couple Panasonic FM 1,500uF / 25V caps in place of the stock Nichicon HD 1,000uF / 25V caps.
I think I'm ready to stick this amp in an enclosure and invite some audio friends for a get together to hear this amp and compare it to my Dynakit Stereo 35 and a friend's pair of 300B SET monoblocks. My friend has sunk in over $1,200 into building these transformer interstage-coupled SET monoblocks and he'll be shocked when he hears how this will compare to them. This amp is really challenging my Dynakit Stereo 35 for play time in my main system. The Crites-upgraded Klipsch Forte II's are really kicking with this Yuan Jing amp. I've thrown large scale orchestral, jazz and classic rock at this thing and it is handling everything beautifully. I would characterize the sound to be similar to a friend's Conrad Johnson MV75-A1 6550 push-pull amp, but with improved Pace, Rhythm and Timing (PRaT) and inner detail.
-
both caps are on the DC side. not sure what to make of these markings..
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp5.jpg)
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/dynaco/amp6.jpg)
-
I'm lucky and just use a meter I have... you may not have one. they don't look very good.
You should certainly create a capacitor bank prior to the 3116 board, but near it, 8-10kuf or so, I prefer smaller 1kuf caps to make up that amount ESPECIALLY with linear power supplies for better performance. They discharge faster, but the big ones have undesired affects with a PSU that has ripple/rectification (I don't know about your PSU). You can dig through oodles of topics and replies on DIYaudio if you want to know about that stuff anymore than just spending $5-10 on some Panasonic FC's or something. Technically you could put a large enough reservoir in the power supply, but I'm unsure of the schematic and regulator, so I can't say for sure where besides right before the out on it. It's not a bad idea given the distance, but also maybe those caps already are just that. I can't tell.
Also you can replace the ones on it. If you have a capacitor bank you can use any value on board (I'd recommend 220-1000uf, generally 220uf or 470uf being good (may improve coupling) if you have a capacitor bank right before the amp for when you need big, low noise, current. Otherwise just replace them with Panasonic FC, Elna Silmic II, Nichicon FG, or something else if you like. The Elna's and Nichicons are known to be a little nicer, about twice the price.
I'd say upgrade the diodes but I can't even see them to know what package would work. Soft recovery are best for low RF, a serious problem in class D. But whatever your level of discipline happens to be, work at your comfort level. Diodes have directions you don't want to screw up etc.
I feel like I'm a regatta, in the bow of a boat, driving all the DIY mods :green: I could probably just leave you guys alone and let you enjoy any of them even in stock form...
-
shrug. with some things i'm a "that's good enough" guy. the speakers sound better than they have through various gear swaps and modifications over the past few months. far better than that tiny switching power supply. i've just about reached the TGE status.
-
I've been considering an alternative to my modified Power One MAP110-S148 SMPS power supply, so I've been researching regulated linear power supplies and battery power supplies. While browsing Craigslist, I came across an Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply. A guy had it listed for $20. At discounted prices, these power supplies sell for almost $100. I figured I could meet the guy at his workplace, plug it in and test it with my DMM. He offered to test it for me, since he had a nice Fluke DMM at work. Without a load, the Astron's output measured 14.02V DC. The unit is in excellent shape as the previous owner has had it for years, but never really used it for his HAM radio system.
Good find on the $20 Astron, definitely cheap and cheerful!
This isn't the first time I've seen people talking about good quality clean power making class D amps sound better.
For 12V, I wonder if a modern high quality computer PSU (e.g. Seasonic) would provide good results? They're all SMPS, but might be worth a try. Just bridge the green and black wires on the big ATX plug to turn them on... would have to look at a pin schematic to get the 12V supply, as I'm not sure which one it is offhand. There is a competitive market for these things, and plenty of websites do rigorous testing (check out Silent PC Review's (http://silentpcreview.com/) PSU reviews).
Rhing, in your research, did you come across any higher voltage contenders that might be worth investigating for the TPA3116? I'd like to build a higher output-capable 3116, and I'm not sure 12V will cut it. Looks like Astron also makes 28V PSUs, but based on the DIY Audio discussion about these boards, sound degrades above 21V. 21V is kinda weird, but surely there's something Astron-like at 18V or 20V...
-
I've only been looking into 12V DC supplies of the regulated linear and battery type. With my system, anything more is overkill. I can't even go past 9 o'clock on my preamp's volume knob without blasting my ears out.
I've read where some people have used computer power supplies with good results, although it seems like you would be spending a lot of money on a power supply that is built for another purpose. Most computer power supplies are the switch mode power supply type.
What seems to be the best power supplies for these low-power Texas Instruments Class D amps are battery-based, and after that regulated linear power supplies.
-
What seems to be the best power supplies for these low-power Texas Instruments Class D amps are battery-based, and after that regulated linear power supplies.
which is better?,battery or linear regulated? :green:
-
Who said either?
-
Who said either?
me!, :rotflmao:
-
For low current they are good but for high current no! :green:
-
I have been thinking about putting a TPA3110 amp into a pair of the older Pioneer BS21 speakers to give as gift to be used as all in one (idiot proof) computer speakers with volume pot and lighted on off switch.
I was thinking of using the binding posts of the speaker with the amp to connect to the second speaker. I know this will cause the amp to speaker connections to be one short and one long.
Will this cause noise or other issues? Any possible solutions. The long wire to the second speaker won't be more than 6' probably shorter.
Also, I should probably keep the PS outside of the speaker cabinet, but it would be nice to have it inside. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Lacro
-
Perhaps, this can help you.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=375768 (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=375768)
So today, I transferred my Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amp into a Modushop enclosure that I've had for quite some time. I bought two at the time when they were on sale for about $45 each. I decided that this amp was worthy of putting into a nice enclosure and it matches my Audio Research gear very well.
I started out fabricating a new DC power umbilical cable to go from my Astron RS-12A regulated linear supply to the amp. I decided to ditch the small Switchcraft coaxial DC connector in favor of a Neutrik 4-pin XLR connector. I followed the standard convention of using Pin 1 for "-" and Pin 4 for "+." The cable is nothing more than a twisted pair of 16AWG Mil-Spec Teflon-insulated Silver-plated, stranded Copper wire I picked up at a local surplus electronics store. I put spiral wrap tubing over that and then a Techflex expandable sleeve on top.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95694)
I then had to drill out the holes on the chassis rear plate and bottom plate to mount the connectors, power switch and the amp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95695)
I took my time assembling the chassis since most of it is Aluminum. I didn't want to rush through it and end up scratching and marring the surface. The Modushop chassis from Italy is extremely well made. I bought mine directly from the manufacturer, but diyAudio.com sells them now, although at a much higher price.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95696)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95697)
I know some people are thinking why such a cheap amp in an expensive chassis, and why such a large chassis? First, I really like this amp in my system, and I didn't want to see my wood-mounted prototype anymore. Secondly, this chassis can accommodate some input balancing transformers like Jensens or Lundahls, which I plan to experiment with in the near future.
-
I'm waiting on a YJ blue. Got to say... I just threw my 7297 into my new linear PSU, and well the 3110 just sounds weak in bass no matter what. The 7297 straight up has a grip on my speakers.
-
What battery is recommended for the 3116. Would a 12v 7amp sla be ok.
-
What battery is recommended for the 3116. Would a 12v 7amp sla be ok.
Yes, it would work. You might want to add a 10kuf cap to it's outputs.
-
I'm assuming that you're referring to the Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116D2 "blue" amp. If that's the amp, then you can purchase these parts from Mouser.com. Sorry, but links die as Webmasters keep shuffling things around on Websites.
Wima MKP10 Film Capacitors 250V 1uF 5% PCM 22.5 11X21X26.5.............PN 505-M101.0/250/5.........
2 pcs..............$2.76/pc
Bourns Fixed Inductors TOROID INDUCTOR 10uH HI TEMP VERTCL MT........PN 652-2100HT-100-V-RC...
4 pcs..............$2.19/pc
Here's JonL's assessment of the Wima MKP10 caps:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg524814#msg524814 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg524814#msg524814)
Note that the end with the outer foil is marked with the vertical black line on the face of the cap. Typically, the outer foil end should be oriented to be closest to ground, output or lower voltage to serve as a quasi-shield for lower noise and better sound quality. I would think this would be the input thru-hole for each cap, but I invite others to correct me if I'm wrong.
It would be nice if tweakaudio.com offered the modified Wima caps in 1uF values with 22.5mm lead spacing, but I have a feeling the cost would be substantially more than $10 or $11 if they did. I would consider the "original" Wima MKP10 caps with the Copper leads, but the only sellers that carry them on eBay are in China, and I am not sure how authentic those caps are.
The Bourns inductors are the ones that Wushuliu prefers. Hope he's right.
ordered these items and a pair of 1,000uf/25v Elna Silmic II caps for the outputs. If I'm understanding correctly, the Bourns inductors and Wima caps don't have polarity but should be installed in a certain way to optimize performance. Help me clearly understand what that should look like?
-
ordered these items and a pair of 1,000uf/25v Elna Silmic II caps for the outputs. If I'm understanding correctly, the Bourns inductors and Wima caps don't have polarity but should be installed in a certain way to optimize performance. Help me clearly understand what that should look like?
FYI, the 1,000uF / 25V electrolytic caps that you are replacing with the Elna Silmic II's are DC decoupling (Vcc decoupling) capacitors, and are not part of the output signal path. Mount these with the same polarity as the stock Nichicon HD caps with the negative lead indicator facing forward on the amp board.
The Bourns inductors are non-polar as you mentioned, so mount these as neatly as possible on the board while making solid solder joints. These toroids are 0.86" diameter, so you might have to orient them in a 45 degree orientation to fit them in neatly.
For the Wima MKP10 caps, some values have a black vertical line printed on the wide face of the cap body. This line will be on the side or end of the cap to indicate which of the two leads is connected to the outer foil. In signal coupling applications, you want to have this lead connected to the side having the lowest impedance. Typically, this is the input side. If you are up to it, you can switch the orientation to determine what sounds best to your ears.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95912)
-
got it. thanks for the guidance and clarification of terms/parts. I took some electronics classes way back in high school, have a decent variable temp soldering station, and have tinkered with recabling headphones and interconnects, etc to build some soldering skills. The circuit boards and part replacements are a whole new area for me though. Fortunately the test subjects are relatively inexpensive. :D
-
I'm now under the impression the 3116 is superior to 3110 in choice. Not specifically in sound quality per say, but I think the 3110 has serious current limiting issues regardless of capacitance/PSU capability. That might be Sure's issue, but I can't say. At this point it seems 97db or higher efficient speakers are best paired with 3110.
-
got it. thanks for the guidance and clarification of terms/parts. I took some electronics classes way back in high school, have a decent variable temp soldering station, and have tinkered with recabling headphones and interconnects, etc to build some soldering skills. The circuit boards and part replacements are a whole new area for me though. Fortunately the test subjects are relatively inexpensive. :D
Well you seem to be doing fine in the school of TI Class D amp building. No failures yet, right? :thumb:
To mount the Bourns inductors, the objective is to keep the vertical lead legs vertical. So if you have to mount them at an angle, you should probably bend the leads about 1/16" to 1/8" below the "mounting plane" point as indicated in the Bourns datasheet.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/2100ht_series-8038.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/54/2100ht_series-8038.pdf)
Maybe this top view diagram will better illustrate what I am trying to describe.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95914)
-
After 3 painful weeks of waiting my 3116 board to arrive, it finally arrived today! I can't wait to give it a try. :thumb:
-
yup, makes sense. though the two outer ones are actually offset a bit more, so they may not require such extreme angles. Parts should arrive tomorrow, so we'll see. :D
-
Received my 3110 today finally:) Got to say something about comparisons with 3116 YJ: input cap on Sure 3110 reduces bass from 240hz down.... 3116 YJ blue board has better input cap choice. Whatever you "bulk in" to cure what isn't left after inputfilter....I wouldn't have thought about increasing "bulk" capacitors first, so thank you, really, because obviously that matters maybe even more...These amps have TI datasheets that are really informative and read-able. If you feel you have plenty volume ((ring on) Klipsch?) with magnifyer shorting pin 6 and 7 on tpa3110chip could be easiest/cheapest towards remedy, upgrading at least 2 out of 4 input-caps to 1uF MKS/or smaller PP could be next, after which comparison of YJ3116 blue with Sure pcb could be more interesting :D
-
swapped both sets of caps with no problem. but i just realized i dont know which components are the inductors. are those the little blue rectangular components immediately in front of the chip heatsink, or the square black components immediately after?
small blue components are through hole, square black components are not.
-
swapped both sets of caps with no problem. but i just realized i dont know which components are the inductors. are those the little blue rectangular components immediately in front of the chip heatsink, or the square black components immediately after?
small blue components are through hole, square black components are not.
Blacksquares. There's not much room there, I'm curious how people have been removing them. I'm sure some have tweezer solder irons.
-
gotcha. i do not have a tweezer soldering iron, so I may just have to skip them for now.
here's a pic for size reference.
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/tpa3116.jpg)
-
Maybe it's risky, but they might pull off with ease. I'd be afraid to lift the tracks, but looking at them it's possible they slip onto some tabs.
I'm really not sure, as I've only as recently as you got into amps with output inductors as such.
-
well, shit. i tried to pry up with a flat screw driver with just the slightest pressure and it ripped right off, along with the trace. so I've got a dead board. :duh:
-
Nice work there with the new Wima input caps and Elna Silmic IIs. Why don't you give the modding a rest and try the new components that are in there now? The Wima's and Silmics will take at least 20 hours to really burn in and open up. At least you'll be able to hear what has improved or gotten worse. :nono:
You started on this before I could post, but for future reference, here you go...
For removing the black shielded inductors, they are soldered to pads fore and aft. To remove them cleanly without lifting the pads, it will probably require two people. Have one person hold a soldering iron with a fine pencil tip to one pad while you simultaneously heat the other pad and gently live the inductor off the pads. You can only see a sliver of each pad under the inductors, so you really need steady hands and patience here. I would recommend asking a very patient friend to help you out.
You might be able to salvage the board. Just try to identify where the Copper traces lead to the pads and carefully and gently use an X-Acto hobby knife with a sharp blade to scrape off the top layer of resin. If you do this correctly, you can glue the pads back on the board with Super Glue or Crazy Glue, and solder in small pieces of wire to bridge from the exposed traces to the repaired pads.
-
ya. too late :P
back to YJ I go (unless there's a way to salvage the trace?)... the caps can be reused.
-
Try the repair method first. I speak from personal experience.
-
You can follow the trace and just replace it with wire. (perhaps, depends where it goes, maybe scrape down to the trace to create a new pad if it leads to the chip? I dunno what the PCB is like to dig into on these boards, some is easy, some is RESILIENT)
Too bad they're that hard to get off. When I have to deal with some components I don't like, I just cut them into pieces with some sharp dikes. For example the tiny blue pots that come on the YJ red boards, I just cut em up a little till I've got 6 easy to remove legs! Actually I prefer to use a desolder tool but I need to order another one.
-
it looks ghetto, but i was able to scrape enough trace to take the solder and hot glue to hold it all in place since the traces were peeled away from the board. is this going to be like driving with 3 flat tires and one good tire by having the single bourns inductor?
i at least have clear sound out of both channels. will go through my test playlist later this evening.
(http://www.synapticjunctions.com/shared/tpa3116b.jpg)
-
You can follow the trace and just replace it with wire. (perhaps, depends where it goes, maybe scrape down to the trace to create a new pad if it leads to the chip? I dunno what the PCB is like to dig into on these boards, some is easy, some is RESILIENT)
Too bad they're that hard to get off. When I have to deal with some components I don't like, I just cut them into pieces with some sharp dikes. For example the tiny blue pots that come on the YJ red boards, I just cut em up a little till I've got 6 easy to remove legs! Actually I prefer to use a desolder tool but I need to order another one.
The inductors should come off easily with a solder iron as rhing mentioned, the tricky part for me is not melting any of the filter caps near them, so might have to remove them beforehand then reinstall. Also a chisel tip for the iron will be help a lot.
-
Well I'm up and playing, even with the gimpy looking inductor. Seems a little punchier throughout the range. Nice clear mods and highs, good solid bass. Good depth of field in the sound stage. Seems a little less noisy. I took the capacitor off of the power inputs, not sure if I'll put it back or not yet.
Doesn't seem to have any adverse effects with the single bourns inductor in place, but now it's one of those things that I know is there and is likely going to trigger my OCD on a regular basis. Not sure I want to risk trying to replace the other 3.
Tonight, I just listen.
-
I lied. Whether placebo or real, after a while the right channel with mismatched inductors just didn't sound right. The music seemed off, like milk that was on the edge of being drinkable.
So I went back at it with cautious hands and a more delicate pry tool, carefully applying the soldering iron tip to each pad and gently prying up from a non-contact side. Out of the next 3 inductors I only messed up one pad and was able to scrape away enough of the trace to make a pad. They all fit on the board without the need for any real bending of the leads, and I applied copious amounts of hot glue to both insulate the leads and provide support.
Whether placebo or real, it sounds like I was expecting it to.
-
Fired up my new YJ 3116 (stock) board to see if it works and doesn't produce smoke :nono: I am powering it with my 12V lawnmower battery. When I first turned it on, it sounded bad :( compared to my modded 3110 boards. However, after about 5 minutes everything started to smooth out, and it's been playing about an hour now, and keeps getting better and cleaner sounding. Can't yet say it sounds better than my 3110's. It's driving my X-LS Encores easily.
It takes 3 solid weeks to get this board from China, so I am a little nervous about making changes so maybe I will leave this one stock and order another for modding.
-
It takes 3 solid weeks to get this board from China, so I am a little nervous about making changes so maybe I will leave this one stock and order another for modding.
I hope this was the YJ blue amp that you painfully waited for. Although, I can't knock the YJ red amp since I never tried it. I really like the YJ blue amp and I've been reluctant to do a lot of mods as it sounds great as I have it now (pair of Panasonic FM 1,500uF / 25V as DC decoupling caps, and my homespun shielded internal cabling). That said, my little TPA3110 amp is no slouch. Going old school right now and jamming to Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" on my turntable with my tube phono stage and linestage preamps driving the diminutive TPA3110 in a little black box. Sounds fantastic!
-
Fired up my new YJ 3116 (stock) board to see if it works and doesn't produce smoke :nono: I am powering it with my 12V lawnmower battery.
Doesn't the 3116 like a bit more power than 12 V ?
I'm considering orering one of these from YJ (blue board) myself.... is that 24V/5A SMPS YJ sells worth picking up to start out with ?
-jay
-
I hope this was the YJ blue amp that you painfully waited for. Although, I can't knock the YJ red amp since I never tried it. I really like the YJ blue amp and I've been reluctant to do a lot of mods as it sounds great as I have it now (pair of Panasonic FM 1,500uF / 25V as DC decoupling caps, and my homespun shielded internal cabling). That said, my little TPA3110 amp is no slouch. Going old school right now and jamming to Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" on my turntable with my tube phono stage and linestage preamps driving the diminutive TPA3110 in a little black box. Sounds fantastic!
Yes... it's the blue board. I think I might get a C&C tube preamp to put in front of it. Any particular reason you used the Panasonic caps, and did they make any difference over the stock ones?
-
I used the Panasonic FM caps, because that's what I already had on hand. They're good for these applications, and to my ears, the sound is clearer with better dynamic response. I like Elna Silmic II caps too, but I just didn't have them.
-
Doesn't the 3116 like a bit more power than 12 V ?
I'm considering orering one of these from YJ (blue board) myself.... is that 24V/5A SMPS YJ sells worth picking up to start out with ?
-jay
Hi Jay,
Nice to see your interested in these little wonders. Be careful their addicting :lol: and a whole lot of fun for cheap. To me they are a great learning tool for modding. I bet you will be surprised how good they sound with your speakers, and your nieces Encores.
Check post #288 about PS voltage. I had the same question as you about powering with 12V instead of YJ's suggested 24V PS.
Your a lot closer to Hong Kong than I, so maybe you wont have to wait 3 weeks :(
-
Hi Jay,
Nice to see your interested in these little wonders. Be careful their addicting :lol: and a whole lot of fun for cheap. To me they are a great learning tool for modding. I bet you will be surprised how good they sound with your speakers, and your nieces Encores.
Check post #288 about PS voltage. I had the same question as you about powering with 12V instead of YJ's suggested 24V PS.
Your a lot closer to Hong Kong than I, so maybe you wont have to wait 3 weeks :(
Thanks Larry, I must have missed that when I was reading through the thread.
It is pretty tough not to take an interest in these little guys . If I do pick one up, I'm planning to use the GF TD 11 as a preamp. Kind of anxious to see how the amp would pair up with the OB7's..
Usually when I've ordered stuff from China in the past, it's typically 1 week for delivery.
If I pick one up, Ill keep yo updsted on how it works with the OB7's
-jay
-
Yuan Jing recently introduced a complete amplifier based on their acclaimed TPA3116D2 blue amp module. This is complete with a black Aluminum case, volume pot and power supply for $88.
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w)
For those who are not comfortable slinging solder or experimenting with potentially hazardous power supplies, this amp is calling your name. In assembling a BOM with comparable parts from Mouser and Digikey including an enclosure, my total was about $100 and this does not even include a power supply.
If you want to DIY, this is still a good foundation to start with and swap in your own caps, volume pot , inductors, etc. What's funny is that an audio buddy and I were wondering when Yuan Jing was going to come out with a serious audiophile amp bearing the blue amp module. Here it is. Don't waste your time with the Yuan Jing 2.1 amp with those cheap tone controls. The blue amp is the one to get.
-
Yuan Jing recently introduced a complete amplifier based on their acclaimed TPA3116D2 blue amp module. This is complete with a black Aluminum case, volume pot and power supply for $88.
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w)
For those who are not comfortable slinging solder or experimenting with potentially hazardous power supplies, this amp is calling your name. In assembling a BOM with comparable parts from Mouser and Digikey including an enclosure, my total was about $100 and this does not even include a power supply.
If you want to DIY, this is still a good foundation to start with and swap in your own caps, volume pot , inductors, etc. What's funny is that an audio buddy and I were wondering when Yuan Jing was going to come out with a serious audiophile amp bearing the blue amp module. Here it is. Don't waste your time with the Yuan Jing 2.1 amp with those cheap tone controls. The blue amp is the one to get.
That sure does look like a good way to go! The amp is easily removable (no solder connections) for modding. I wonder what the PS output voltage is?
The deal breaker for me is the shipping to the NE US.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96080)
-
That sure does look like a good way to go! The amp is easily removable (no solder connections) for modding. I wonder what the PS output voltage is?
The deal breaker for me is the shipping to the NE US.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96080)
I looked at ordering one of these too but oh that shipping, especailly when you see similar being shipped for free or very little on the big auction site :(
I'd assume that is the same SMPS that I was talking about yesterday from YJ, 24V/5A
http://www.yuan-jing.com/ac-dc-adapter-universal-switching-mode-power-supply-smps-24v-5a
-jay
EDIT: guess not, I looked at the pictures again and see it is an internal PS, didn't even notice late last night when I was looking :duh:
-
It's probably still a better amp than you can get anywhere near the price, with that shipping. You'd have to upgrade to a TBI Millennium or something.
-
It's probably still a better amp than you can get anywhere near the price, with that shipping. You'd have to upgrade to a TBI Millennium or something.
Salis: You may be right. It sure looks pretty sweet for $88 :thumb: Who's going to be the first to jump on this?
Please know this: The freight rate I posted is to the North East US. Those on the left coast (or in between) may pay a LOT less in shipping.
-
I am debating ordering the finished amp but I have get over the shipping cost to NJ.
-
No free lunch. Folks can either build one themselves or pay to have it assembled. Can't have both. :roll: There is no other seller providing an assembled TPA3116 of this quality (and in unmodified stereo) and this seller is more reputable than many.
-
Well, I'm on the West coast, only a few hours out of Vancouver and the cart quoted me even more, $52.19 :scratch:
No free lunch. Folks can either build one themselves or pay to have it assembled. Can't have both. :roll: There is no other seller providing an assembled TPA3116 of this quality (and in unmodified stereo) and this seller is more reputable than many.
Yeah, haven't seen the 2.0 in a finished assembly aside from the YJ. Onthe big auction site, I see the 2.1 but not what we want, sure better shipping rates though
-jay
-
Still comes out as a good deal once you consider the cost of a separate board, enclosure, and power supply which would still require you to assemble yourself. Not worth comparing to the other amps because you get what you pay for - their shipping is cheaper, but the time you have to spend to mod them or just put up with the compromised design... how much is that worth?
As mentioned above there's always the TBI Millenia for $500...
I think $150 for a solid plug and play TPA3116 is a damn good deal given the performance. If I didn't DIY I would pay that in a heartbeat.
-
Following this thread with great interest. Wondering how it compares with Class D Audio CDA amp. Anybody knows? Thanks!
-
Following this thread with great interest. Wondering how it compares with Class D Audio CDA amp. Anybody knows? Thanks!
Kind of apples and oranges as the CDA is much higher power. It's been a while since I listened to mine but I would give the edge to the TPA. Cleaner, clearer, better microdynamics, more dimensional. The CDAs are very nice though if you need that much power. They also cost a lot more.
-
The ClassDAudio "mini" that is in the price range sounds like a 3110 with a blanket over the speakers.
-
There are now a couple of ebay merchants selling the blue board. I just picked one up for $22 with free shipping.
There's also a blue board 2.1 in it's enclosure and shipped it's cheaper than the YJ.
-
Does anyone know of some world class diy linear powersupplies that would work well with these amps?
-
Does anyone know of some world class diy linear powersupplies that would work well with these amps?
The Teddy PSU is probably about the best atm, but it's just the regulator that you buy. I'm trying to get some PCB's made for my own that I think may be more effective particulalry for class D.
-
Maybe we could get Audio gd to make an a good power supply from their DIY section of their website.
-
Maybe we could get Audio gd to make an a good power supply from their DIY section of their website.
I think the trick is building a PS that can do 5-6Amps peak. Lots of great lower current options but not so much for >2Amps I've found.
So far batteries are the easiest solution for improved performance IMO.
-
(http://www.electro-tech-online.com/attachments/full-wave-rectifier-ripple-voltage-png.41898)
A linear PSU can provide the current. But depending on what ripple you can live with you could end upward of 60,000uf. Could you hear the difference between that and 10,000uf? Factor in that only at the exact moment of the AC cycle switching will you need 100% current from capacitors, so it's rare to need full 6a worth out of them. Hence that graph is based towards non-peak, but with them in mind. It's been years since I read it's origins, but it's pretty good.
I used 6a, 7.5a shuts the amp off.
-
The ClassDAudio "mini" that is in the price range sounds like a 3110 with a blanket over the speakers.
Anyone compare the sound quality to the SDS 224?
Cost aside what would be the better of them all? TBI? CDA SDS? TPA3110 with mods?
-
Anyone compare the sound quality to the SDS 224?
Cost aside what would be the better of them all? TBI? CDA SDS? TPA3110 with mods?
Well power needs is a factor. The TBI tops out at 30w or so IIRC, CDA from 150w to 1000w?, TPA 3110 around 8, TPA3116 around 50w (though it sounds better at 21v and under). This is for 4 ohm speakers, so less for 8 ohm (unless specified by seller).
That's a pretty wide range so depending on your setup some of them may be out of the running. I have heard all of them at some point or another. IMO conservatively speaking the YJ 2.0 TPA3116 black/blue board is at least as good as the TBI and the CDAs that I have owned. That said the CDA does have a different presentation IIRC, quite smooth, which some people may like more. But in terms of clarity and separation and overall realism I think the YJ 2.0 is tops.
Note that I say the YJ 2.0 board. NOT any of the other TPA boards, which I think require modding to sound their best. The YJ 2.0 is the best version for plug and play at this point in time IMO.
-
Well power needs is a factor. The TBI tops out at 30w or so IIRC, CDA from 150w to 1000w?, TPA 3110 around 8, TPA3116 around 50w (though it sounds better at 21v and under).
That's a pretty wide range so depending on your setup some of them may be out of the running. I have heard all of them at some point or another. IMO conservatively speaking the YJ 2.0 TPA3116 black/blue board is at least as good as the TBI and the CDAs that I have owned. That said the CDA does have a different presentation IIRC, quite smooth, which some people may like more. But in terms of clarity and separation and overall realism I think the YJ 2.0 is tops.
Note that I say the YJ 2.0 board. NOT any of the other TPA boards, which I think require modding to sound their best. The YJ 2.0 is the best iteration for plug and play at this point in time IMO.
Thanks wushuliu for your reply.
I need 25w+ to drive my monitors and I did read that the YJ 2.0 is the way to go.
I have very limited soldering skills and was looking at the $88 finished version.
I will be using an iFi iTube along with the amp(s) for a buffer stage.
Can two of the YJ 2.0 units be used as mono blocks with the shorting of one input?
(This can be done with the TBI with a 20%gain in output)
Chris
-
Thanks wushuliu for your reply.
I need 25w+ to drive my monitors and I did read that the YJ 2.0 is the way to go.
I have very limited soldering skills and was looking at the $88 finished version.
I will be using an iFi iTube along with the amp(s) for a buffer stage.
Can two of the YJ 2.0 units be used as mono blocks with the shorting of one input?
(This can be done with the TBI with a 20%gain in output)
Chris
Hi Chris, no the YJ units can not be made into mono blocks by just shorting inputs. The changes required are a little more involved.
-
Hi Chris, no the YJ units can not be made into mono blocks by just shorting inputs. The changes required are a little more involved.
Ok, got it. :)
I just stumbled on this thread today and thank you for helping me out since I'm too lazy to read all 20 pages. :roll:
Chris
-
Is this http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w an integrated amp? I'm toying with the idea of getting it and selling if it does not have enough power for my ONIX mini strata speakers. Also would consider buying a 3116 DIY made by a forum member. If anyone near Philly would be interested in buying the amp in the link if it does not work out for me of if anyone wants to get rid of a 3116 DIY for a decent price please PM me.
I don't listen very loud and I've asked if other low power amps would work, but this 50W seems like it might work because I'm using an ONIX a6o amp and feel like it has plenty of power for the minis. Feedback is welcomed.
-
Here's my TPA3116 build, just finished today. Listening to it now as I post this. So far, sounds at least as good as my TPA3110.
The finished product is completely boxed up, but I thought that'd be a boring picture (using a Context Engineering chassis). Not as nice of work as Rhing's, but halfway decent I think. If you look closely, you'll notice there are three wires coming from the DC jack. The black one is taped off on the end. Must have been a cold solder joint, because on the first attempt at using it, no sound. DMM showed no voltage across the DC input. So I soldered on another wire, and accidentally used another yellow. So I put heat shrink tube on the end of the yellow so I can tell them apart. All my stuff always seems to have a little touch of ghetto.
Right now it's on my desktop rig: FLAC rips to Cambridge Audio DACMagic (the original) to TPA3116 to Overnight Sensations speakers (DIY flatpack kit from Parts Express).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96457)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96458)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96459)
-
Here's my TPA3116 build, just finished today. Listening to it now as I post this. So far, sounds at least as good as my TPA3110.
The finished product is completely boxed up, but I thought that'd be a boring picture (using a Context Engineering chassis). Not as nice of work as Rhing's, but halfway decent I think. If you look closely, you'll notice there are three wires coming from the DC jack. The black one is taped off on the end. Must have been a cold solder joint, because on the first attempt at using it, no sound. DMM showed no voltage across the DC input. So I soldered on another wire, and accidentally used another yellow. So I put heat shrink tube on the end of the yellow so I can tell them apart. All my stuff always seems to have a little touch of ghetto.
Right now it's on my desktop rig: FLAC rips to Cambridge Audio DACMagic (the original) to TPA3116 to Overnight Sensations speakers (DIY flatpack kit from Parts Express)...
Looks great and I'm sure it sounds fantastic.
Is this http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w an integrated amp? I'm toying with the idea of getting it and selling if it does not have enough power for my ONIX mini strata speakers. Also would consider buying a 3116 DIY made by a forum member. If anyone near Philly would be interested in buying the amp in the link if it does not work out for me of if anyone wants to get rid of a 3116 DIY for a decent price please PM me.
I don't listen very loud and I've asked if other low power amps would work, but this 50W seems like it might work because I'm using an ONIX a6o amp and feel like it has plenty of power for the minis. Feedback is welcomed.
Even though the manufacturer claims the amp to be capable of 50W output, this is going into a 4 ohm load using a 20-24V DC power supply. It would be a stretch to push the Onix Mini Stratas with this amp, but like you suggested, if it doesn't work out you can sell it.
I would think you'd do better with a higher powered Class A or Class A/B SS or tube amp. I heard the Mini Stratas at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest before AV123 went defunct. Mark was trying to use 100W Class D mono block amps with a very nice Dodd tube preamp. It sounded horrible, and they couldn't figure out why it sounded so bad. They put in a couple KT88 tube amps in place of the Class D amps, and the sound was improved. The Mini Stratas have some watt-sucking crossovers with an impedance curve all over the map to marry the planar drivers with the bass and tweeter drivers.
-
In the meantime, I installed a Panasonic EVJ 50kohm volume pot into my TPA3110D2 amp. As I mentioned before, I carefully soldered the wires using a third hand tool. in the photo, you can see that I wrapped the jaws of one of the alligator clips to keep the alligator teeth from biting into the wire insulation. After soldering each wire in place, I slid a short segment of 14AWG Teflon tubing over each soldered joint to avoid possible shorts. It also serves as a strain relief.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92338)
Here is the volume pot installed next to the RCA inputs to keep the signal path as short as possible to minimize any RFI effects. Using my DMM and my ears, this volume pot is very well balanced, even at very low volumes. Interestingly, I have absolutely no noise coming through my speakers with my Sony ES SACD/DVD/CD player connected directly to the inputs of the amp integrated amp mode. The starting volume position is about 7 o'clock, and pushing it to 10 o'clock is plenty loud for my man cave. This little amp never ceases to amaze me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92339)
Hey Rich...
Would the Panasonic EVJ 50kohm volume pot also work on the 3116 blue board? I want to have an outboard pot in a small box to try with different boards.
-
Hey Rich...
Would the Panasonic EVJ 50kohm volume pot also work on the 3116 blue board? I want to have an outboard pot in a small box to try with different boards.
Yes. That should work very well. I am installing one myself in a second build. Will post photos as soon as it's completed.
-
@Rich I sent you an email via the forum (thinking it was PM) but I guess it did not go through. Anyway, maybe it is better to ask here so, people like me may get their answers.
OK. First of all, I kinda have shaky hands! So, soldering is not my best talent. I am not that old but do know why they shake. Still, I want to build an amp with the blue/black board. So, here are my Qs.
1-If I buy the finished product from YJ Audio for $88, would I get a good/close enough sound if I build the amp and connect it to a tube preamp/buffer (need to buy a pre also since I currently have an Topping TP-60 and do not need a pre)?
2-If I build it myself, what kind of mods should I do or I can do considering this is my first experience building an amp?
3-I see on YJ Audio website that there is an RCA that you connect/plug with no soldering required (the gold one not the cheaper black plastic one), is this any different than the ones you solder? Can I also buy the same style (no solder) for speaker binding posts? Do they sell the same for speaker binding posts somewhere else?
4-What kind of cables should I buy/use for the RCA (if I need to solder) and for speaker binding posts? I have a lot of budget speaker cables around.
5- Is the better to connect this amp to a external power supply (21V or 24V) or just do it with power supply board like YJ does it on their finished TPA3116?
6-Would I be better off just building an integrated amp (more work, volume pot,etc.) with this board? Also I do not have to have a case because my amp can go into a cabinet that breathes enough.
Thanks!
-
Rhing, thanks for the clear description and pictures of how you upgraded your Sure TPA3110D2 board. Especially helpful was your recommendation of the Panasonic volume pot. For such a tiny little guy, it's surprisingly smooth, both physically and audio-wise. Note, though, that the specific product (EVJ-Y10F03A54) is now listed as obsolete on both Mouser and Digi-key sites so now would be a good time to get 'em if you want 'em. (There appear to be similar 50k ohm Panasonic potentiometers available.)
-
@Rich I sent you an email via the forum (thinking it was PM) but I guess it did not go through. Anyway, maybe it is better to ask here so, people like me may get their answers.
PM sent.
Rhing, thanks for the clear description and pictures of how you upgraded your Sure TPA3110D2 board. Especially helpful was your recommendation of the Panasonic volume pot. For such a tiny little guy, it's surprisingly smooth, both physically and audio-wise. Note, though, that the specific product (EVJ-Y10F03A54) is now listed as obsolete on both Mouser and Digi-key sites so now would be a good time to get 'em if you want 'em. (There appear to be similar 50k ohm Panasonic potentiometers available.)
The Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 is obsolete, so the supply is limited. This is a very small potentiometer with very fragile legs for point-to-point soldering, so please consider whether you're up to the task of delicately soldering wires to these pots. They are very transparent volume pots with smooth operation as HaroldHill said. To my ears, these volume pots easily compete with the Alps Blue Velvet and even some stepped attenuators. Best of all, they're cheap and cheerful. :D
-
Connected a Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 pot to my 3116 board tonight. It sounds good so far. I can unplug it from the board and connect direct to RCA outs for comparison or if I want to try a preamp. This is the pot Rhing suggested that worked great on the 3110 board.
(http://i.imgur.com/8WonUN9l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fcRavBtl.jpg)
-
Connected a Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 pot to my 3116 board tonight. It sounds good so far. I can unplug it from the board and connect direct to RCA outs for comparison or if I want to try a preamp. This is the pot Rhing suggested that worked great on the 3110 board.
Nice build! It really does pay off to mount these amps on some kind of board with angles drilled out to manage connections and wires. I've shorted too many connections and fried a few amps trying to rush things myself.
I'm curious whether you can hear a difference between the YJ blue amp and the Sure TPA3110D2 amp. To my ears, the YJ blue amp sounds smoother, more tonally balanced from bass to treble, and it creates a larger and deeper soundstage when using the same power supply. I believe this has more to do with the Sure board's use of those tiny ceramic SMD caps than differences in the chips and their respective power specs.
I'm saving up for a pair of Jensen JT-11P-1 transformers to convert the single-ended inputs (RCA jacks) to differential inputs (balanced inputs) on the amp board. I'll try this out on my Sure TPA3110D2 amp first, and also experiment with different film capacitors in place of the ceramic SMD input coupling caps on the board. I believe the TBI Millenia uses op amps to achieve the same conversion from single-ended inputs to the Texas Instruments TPA3100D2 amp's differential inputs. Even though they cost more, the transformers should do a better job for this. It sounds a bit over the top, but I think that this would take the amp to another level of performance. :lol:
-
lacro I see you use ferite beads with 3116 after LC outputfilter? did you have noise/hiss without them?
-
Lacro,
Where did you get those angled brackets from? I looked for them in Home Depot but did not have any luck.
-
Nice build! It really does pay off to mount these amps on some kind of board with angles drilled out to manage connections and wires. I've shorted too many connections and fried a few amps trying to rush things myself.
I'm curious whether you can hear a difference between the YJ blue amp and the Sure TPA3110D2 amp. To my ears, the YJ blue amp sounds smoother, more tonally balanced from bass to treble, and it creates a larger and deeper soundstage when using the same power supply. I believe this has more to do with the Sure board's use of those tiny ceramic SMD caps than differences in the chips and their respective power specs.
I'm saving up for a pair of Jensen JT-11P-1 transformers to convert the single-ended inputs (RCA jacks) to differential inputs (balanced inputs) on the amp board. I'll try this out on my Sure TPA3110D2 amp first, and also experiment with different film capacitors in place of the ceramic SMD input coupling caps on the board. I believe the TBI Millenia uses op amps to achieve the same conversion from single-ended inputs to the Texas Instruments TPA3100D2 amp's differential inputs. Even though they cost more, the transformers should do a better job for this. It sounds a bit over the top, but I think that this would take the amp to another level of performance. :lol:
I took the idea to mount the amps on a temporary board from you :thumb: it sure is a lot safer than having wires dangling everywhere.
As far as the sound comparison between the 3110 and Blue/black 3116 I am probably not the best person to do an evaluation as I am not as tuned to all the different sound characteristics as many here are, but I can tell whether something sounds good or not to my ears.
Actually I don't hear a huge difference between the modded 3110 boards and the stock 3116, but I haven't had much listening time with the 3116. I will say the highs are sometimes piercing to my ears with 3116 to the point of being annoying. I swapped the 3110 modded board with 3116 playing the same music and the 3110 does not exhibit the nasty highs.
The inclusion of the volume pot on the 3116 seems to have tamed this issue somewhat or maybe it's just wishful thinking :lol: As it stands right now I think my modded 3110 with the Muse caps is still my favorite for my nearfield PC based listening.
-
Lacro,
Where did you get those angled brackets from? I looked for them in Home Depot but did not have any luck.
Their homemade :lol: The silver ones were bent into angles from flat steel and aluminum. the white one was cut from a piece of aluminum rectangle tubing. All C&C scraps :thumb:
-
lacro I see you use ferite beads with 3116 after LC outputfilter? did you have noise/hiss without them?
No RFI with the Blue board. I used them with 3110, and just left them on when I put the blue board on the same experimentation chassis.
-
OK I don't know if the FB after LC outputfilter affect SQ
I have 2 sure 3110, 1 unmodded for reference which I listen to from time to time. 1 "modded", that is I replaced C1/C2 and C10/11 with wima mks02 1uF (2.5mm lead spacing) which fit nicely on smd solder pads. I also removed R4 and shorted leg 5 and 6 of tpa3110-> gain set to 20dB. Chip legs are very close together so that actually is hardest, don't try when you are in a hurry because you will probably short many legs :D At the moment I am listening to 1000uF nichicon FG for C16 and C15 and I have added 4000uF on DC input. My speakers are 85dB:) no problem at all!!! I use the IndeedHifi 12v powerbrick supply
Strongest point I feel is the very powerfull and well defined bass output, standard board is a bit bass shy, probably because input caps filter bass a little. Mids and high also very open and detailed and spacy, where standard board is a bit more lets say "decent". Best description could be overall at all frequencies dynamics are much much bettered. Oh I use a full size pot lolol the panasonic is tiny(the old stock one) and if you check sizes of successors, yeah they are even smaller:)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96680)
-
hi all, 1st post and I'm really excited about the possibility of these amps. I have a blue YJ on the way as of a week ago. Trying to do lots of learning but electrical stuff is not my strong point. Reading all of this is making my head spin a bit. I'm picking up little bits and pieces. The photos posted help me learn a lot easier.
Anyway, I'm about to buy a few of the pots mentioned here from digikey. EVJ-Y10F03A54 To build a small boombox powered by the blue YJ and a set of B652's
The rest of the stuff I pick up will probably be from Parts Express as I need to place an order with them anyway. Is there anything else recommended that won't break the bank I should throw in my basket anyway since I'm there? The only thing I know I need and am having a hard time figuring out still is the PS plug. I plan on burying the brick in the boombox but want to it to look like the link provided on the outside. The only caveat is that my PS is 3 prong.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wireless-speaker-reviews/marshall-hanwell-review/#/5
What is the part called that I need to order to screw to the inside/back of my cabinet?
Thanks so much for the help.
-
Whoops, P.S..
Can someone please measure the height of the blue YJ board so I can continue with the box construction?
-
Put a Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 pot in a box to use as a passive volume control. Sounds good!
(http://i.imgur.com/qPH20Anl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ctUhA62l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7wBQ8N5l.jpg)
-
hi all, 1st post and I'm really excited about the possibility of these amps. I have a blue YJ on the way as of a week ago. Trying to do lots of learning but electrical stuff is not my strong point. Reading all of this is making my head spin a bit. I'm picking up little bits and pieces. The photos posted help me learn a lot easier.
Anyway, I'm about to buy a few of the pots mentioned here from digikey. EVJ-Y10F03A54 To build a small boombox powered by the blue YJ and a set of B652's
The rest of the stuff I pick up will probably be from Parts Express as I need to place an order with them anyway. Is there anything else recommended that won't break the bank I should throw in my basket anyway since I'm there? The only thing I know I need and am having a hard time figuring out still is the PS plug. I plan on burying the brick in the boombox but want to it to look like the link provided on the outside. The only caveat is that my PS is 3 prong.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wireless-speaker-reviews/marshall-hanwell-review/#/5
What is the part called that I need to order to screw to the inside/back of my cabinet?
Thanks so much for the help.
Is this the connection your looking for?
https://www.parts-express.com/iec-power-jack-chassis-mount--090-442
(http://i.imgur.com/XZ8ZzGql.jpg)
-
I completed a second Yuan Jing 2.0 blue amp build. In this case, I used a Panasonic EVJ 50kohm log taper pot just like lacro's standalone volume control box. These work really well with these Texas Instruments Class D amps and they are very reasonably priced at $1.70 each from Digikey (PN P2G1503-ND).
After receiving the amp module within a week from Yuan Jing, I first removed the stock DC decoupling caps, the input caps and the inductors to begin the upgrade process. Removing the stock inductors and installing the Bourns inductors is not a job for the novice. It was a bit tricky without ripping the surface mount pads from the amp board. I thought I could just heat the solder joints simultaneously with two solder irons and the inductors would fall off. However, the solder that Yuan Jing uses hardly reflows. I had to use a toothpick to apply some gel flux paste to the solder joints and heat the joints with my solder iron while very gently lifting the stock inductors off the board. The space is very tight, so depending on the size of your solder iron, some people may need to temporarily remove adjacent caps to make more room and avoid burning anything. With patience and a gentle tug on the inductors while reflowing the solder joints, I was able to neatly remove them all and keep the surface mount pads in place. After that, I had a lot of cleanup with alcohol and cotton swabs. You can see I couldn't get it spotless, but it was good enough.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96721)
Next, I populated the board with the following:
- Panasonic FM electrolytic caps, DC decoupling............Mouser 667-EEU-FM1E152
....................................... .....................................Di gikey P12380-ND - Wima MKP10 film caps, input coupling.......................Mouser 505-M101.0/250/5
- Bourns 10uH inductors, output filter........ ..............Mouser 652-2100HT-100-V-RC
....................................... .....................................Di gikey 2100HT-100-V-RC-ND
To mount the inductors, I snipped off the excess lead length and bent the legs to create "feet" to make more contact with the solder pads on the board. I applied generous amounts of solder for good electrical and mechanical connections. With a little work, the inductors fit neatly on the board. I like the fact that the layout has two outside inductors sitting forward from the two inside inductors. This created a bit more room to fit the inductors without having to position them at an angle.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96722)
I wired up the amp with some Belden 88641 shielded twisted pair hook-up wire and tied the shields to the source end grounds only (i.e., RCA jack ground tabs). For mounting the board, I used 4-40 Nylon standoffs and screws.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96723)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96726)
Later, I added a small green LED to indicate when the amp is powered on. I have a 5.1kohm 1/4 watt resistor wired in series with the LED to keep it bright enough to see in daylight, but not too bright during night time listening. I had drilled a pin hole through the face plate to all the green LED to shine through.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96724)
I have been burning this amp in using my Alan Parsons Sound Check 2 test CD, which has multiple test tones, frequency tone sweeps and uncompressed music tracks. I try to put as much as 10-20 hours of burn-in time with this CD playing in repeat mode. It really gives the amp a workout, and it seems to shorten the burn-in process.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96725)
I've been listening to music off and on since yesterday, and I have to say these mods really add a noticeable level of refinement to the sound quality. The music is more natural-sounding with more detail and transparency. The stock amp is nice, but the mods really revealed how veiled the sound is. The amp sounds smoother, especially with strings, cymbals and vocals.
-
Whoops, P.S..
Can someone please measure the height of the blue YJ board so I can continue with the box construction?
With the board sitting on the through hole component solder leads, mine is 0.920" sitting on my approx 1/8" stand-offs (recommended) it's 1.050"
-
With the board sitting on the through hole component solder leads, mine is 0.920" sitting on my approx 1/8" stand-offs (recommended) it's 1.050"
Give yourself some room in case you want to put better power supply caps on the board.
-
Am I the only one using a fuse with these boards?
-
With the board sitting on the through hole component solder leads, mine is 0.920" sitting on my approx 1/8" stand-offs (recommended) it's 1.050"
Thanks guys, I made the enclosure 2" :D
Is this the connection your looking for?
https://www.parts-express.com/iec-power-jack-chassis-mount--090-442
thanks so much. Almost exactly. My power cord has a hump in it so won't fit this style. But after searching and finding nothing else I will pick that one up and get a different cord. With any luck I'll find one in my parts here.
-
Am I the only one using a fuse with these boards?
My fuse is on my power supply: 3A / 250VAC slo-blo.
-
I completed a second Yuan Jing 2.0 blue amp build.
[ ... ]
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96726)
Nice as always Rhing. I was showing my wife the pics of your builds, to which she said, "Sorry to say this, but this makes your amp look pretty ghetto." I can't argue that!
Anyway, just curious what RCA and binding posts you used this time around?
-
My purpose for posting was to show the modding potential of the Yuan Jing blue amp. The original designer, danzz on diyAudio.com, designed the board for modding. I appreciate any individual effort to create a project using these amps, even if it's a rough looking prototype.
Here's my ugly TDA7297 in an oversized box from Michaels:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=90192)
Anyway, here are the parts shown in the photo of the rear plate on my latest build:
- Rean (Neutrik) NYS367 RCA Connector, White...........................Mouser 568-NYS367-9
- Rean (Neutrik) NYS367 RCA Connector, Red..............................Mouser 568-NYS367-2
- Keystone 4109 10/32 Binding Posts.................................. ........Mouser 534-4109
....................................... ....................................... .............Digikey 4109K-ND - NKK SPST On/Off Power Switch................................. ..............Digikey 360-3003-ND
I've used more expensive parts like Vampire CM1F-CB RCA connectors and Vampire CMHEX binding posts as well as Pomona Electronics 3770 Gold-plated Copper binding posts. These less costly connectors are perfectly fine, and I probably won't go back to the more expensive boutique parts anytime soon. The NKK power switch isn't cheap, but it's a high quality power switch and perfect for these amps.
-
Here's some pics of my tpa3110. Not as clean as Rhing's work, but I like looking at other peoples' work, even when it's not particularly neat. I figure others might enjoy looking at pics too, so here ya go.
I've been using this tpa3110 for quite a while, but with software volume control. Thanks to this thread I learned about the cheap and cheerful Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 volume pot. So that was my little project this weekend, to add a volume pot. I was worried about the soldering job, but it actually wasn't too bad with a helping hands (http://www.parts-express.com/dual-helping-hands-with-magnifier--360-670). At $6, I say the helping hands is a must if you're going to dabble in DIY.
Here's the "guts" of the unit. The wires I used for the volume control are way too long. I only get about two hours to work on this stuff while my young kids nap, so for now I'll live with the long wires. With the Sure tpa3110 being only $10 and the YJ blue tpa3116 being only $20, it's hard resist the urge to keep building more of these, even though I don't need them.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96744)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96745)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96746)
The case is this aluminum case from Parts-Expres (Part # 320-326) (http://www.parts-express.com/aluminum-amplifier-case-177-h-x-472-w-x-689-d--320-326). I thought it would be nice to have all the holes pre-drilled. But, after my tpa3116 build, I realized drilling aluminum isn't too bad. Also, this case from PE doesn't have a removable top (it's a solid extrusion), which is kind of annoying.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96750)
As I mentioned before, I always have a touch of ghetto in my builds. :) Here, I couldn't find a rectangular panel mount DC jack that fit this case. So I just hung a jack off wires out the back. Not pretty, but it works! It just sits on my desk anyway, so no big deal.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96751)
-
The wires I used for the volume control are way too long. I only get about two hours to work on this stuff while my young kids nap, so for now I'll live with the long wires.
I appreciate the pics. It helps me process. 2 days ago I didn't even know the symble for ohm and just today I found out that PE is for the ground in a 3 prong plug. Haha, I'm learning so much!
Are the long leads bad because a hum could be introduced from it?
. The NKK power switch isn't cheap, but it's a high quality power switch and perfect for these amps.
When you say perfect for these amp, is there something we shouldn't be using? I ask because I am trying to build a loose replica of something and it requires a gold on/off switch. So far I have only been able to find a gold 3 way. ebay # 161254411002
-
Here's some pics of my tpa3110. Not as clean as Rhing's work, but I like looking at other peoples' work, even when it's not particularly neat. I figure others might enjoy looking at pics too, so here ya go.
I've been using this tpa3110 for quite a while, but with software volume control. Thanks to this thread I learned about the cheap and cheerful Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54 volume pot. So that was my little project this weekend, to add a volume pot. I was worried about the soldering job, but it actually wasn't too bad with a helping hands (http://www.parts-express.com/dual-helping-hands-with-magnifier--360-670). At $6, I say the helping hands is a must if you're going to dabble in DIY.
Here's the "guts" of the unit. The wires I used for the volume control are way too long. I only get about two hours to work on this stuff while my young kids nap, so for now I'll live with the long wires. With the Sure tpa3110 being only $10 and the YJ blue tpa3116 being only $20, it's hard resist the urge to keep building more of these, even though I don't need them.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96744)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96745)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96746)
The case is this aluminum case from Parts-Expres (Part # 320-326) (http://www.parts-express.com/aluminum-amplifier-case-177-h-x-472-w-x-689-d--320-326). I thought it would be nice to have all the holes pre-drilled. But, after my tpa3116 build, I realized drilling aluminum isn't too bad. Also, this case from PE doesn't have a removable top (it's a solid extrusion), which is kind of annoying.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96750)
As I mentioned before, I always have a touch of ghetto in my builds. :) Here, I couldn't find a rectangular panel mount DC jack that fit this case. So I just hung a jack off wires out the back. Not pretty, but it works! It just sits on my desk anyway, so no big deal.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96751)
Nice job! What caps did you use? Listening impressions compared to 3116?
-
When you say perfect for these amp, is there something we shouldn't be using? I ask because I am trying to build a loose replica of something and it requires a gold on/off switch. So far I have only been able to find a gold 3 way. ebay # 161254411002
The closest you might find is a brass-plated switch. Have you checked Digikey or Mouser? I just specify what will perform the best. My stuff is pretty plain. That three-way switch seems to be more of a selector switch and not an on-off power switch. For the TPA3116, you really want an SPST switch and a good one that won't arc (i.e., spark) when you switch it on and off.
A good resource for anyone desiring to learn more about building electronic projects is "Starting Electronics Construction" by Keith Brindley. I learned about basic electronics in a very practical manner reading this book. Morgan Jones' "Building Valve Amplifiers" is also a good practical reference on building amps, especially tube amps.
Here's some pics of my tpa3110. Not as clean as Rhing's work, but I like looking at other peoples' work, even when it's not particularly neat. I figure others might enjoy looking at pics too, so here ya go.
Nice work Matt. Have you considered Bourns Ferrite beads mentioned in this thread? They'll reduce any RFI from the TPA3110 amp since it doesn't have an output filter. Just slip one bead over each wire between the terminal blocks and your binding posts (4 total).
-
I appreciate the pics. It helps me process. 2 days ago I didn't even know the symble for ohm and just today I found out that PE is for the ground in a 3 prong plug. Haha, I'm learning so much!
Are the long leads bad because a hum could be introduced from it?
Indeed, I just got into the DIY audio electronics after reading the Class D Audio (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.0) thread here. Everyone's pictures were immensely helpful, in addition to being fun to look at.
In general, it's good to keep wiring as short as possible. My (admittedly cursory) understanding is that any electrical signal wire has an opportunity to pick up interference (e.g. EMI), which can reduce signal quality. You definitely don't want noise (in the electrical signal sense) being introduced at the input level of an amp. You really don't want it anywhere, but particularly not before feeding it to an amplifier.
Despite that, even with the long leads, I don't hear any obvious sound degradation, although someone with better equipment and/or ears might disagree.
Nice job! What caps did you use? Listening impressions compared to 3116?
For the power supply caps, I used these 1000uF 25V caps from Parts-Express (http://www.parts-express.com/1000uf-25v-high-temp-radial-capacitor--020-1738). I bought those before this thread really got started, so I semi-randomly picked them. I did buy some more caps mentioned in this thread, but didn't feel like swapping them this time around.
The input DC capacitor is a Pansonic FC 2200uF 25V (DigiKey part number P10284-ND). That idea came straight from this thread.
As for comparisons to the 3116: too early to tell. I don't have enough time in with the 3116. I built the 3116 two weekends ago, but didn't have much time to actually listen to it. Basically just a "make sure it works" test, followed by a little listening for fun.
Nice work Matt. Have you considered Bourns Ferrite beads mentioned in this thread? They'll reduce any RFI from the TPA3110 amp since it doesn't have an output filter. Just slip one bead over each wire between the terminal blocks and your binding posts (4 total).
D'oh, yes, I actually bought some in my last Digi-Key order (at $0.14/each, why not?), but forgot to install them!
-
Removing the stock inductors and installing the Bourns inductors is not a job for the novice. It was a bit tricky without ripping the surface mount pads from the amp board.
if any novices out there need confirmation of this statement, look a page or two back for pictures and commentary about my efforts with these mods. The amp is functional, but not nearly as nice and problem-free as Rhing's.
-
The mod is working, so mission accomplished. It's these challenges that help you develop techniques and methods. I cut my DIY teeth on modifying Playstation 1 consoles. After modding a few, I felt like a neurosurgeon.
-
Am I the only one using a fuse with these boards?
Poultrygeist, if you do not mind, is the fuse for speaker protection? What is the best way to install speaker protection for the YJ blue board? I noticed that YJ has speaker protection circuit (for about $7+), but not sure how it will affect the sound. Also, which 6N3 preamplifier did you end up using? I would like to get that tube sound, similar to the PrimaLuna Prologue I am currently using. I think I will end up housing the amp and preamp in one enclosure. Your setup seem ideal for me. Thanks! :thumb:
I am a newbie when it comes putting together electronic gear, but after reading the thread there, I got encouraged to order the YJ blue board. Do I need this part https://www.parts-express.com/panel-mount-metal-dc-power-jack-21-x-55mm--090-495 in order to power it? I will not be using battery but will be using this instead https://www.parts-express.com/universal-laptop-power-supply-15~195v-dc-with-5v-usb-charging-port--120-502. Will it work?
-
My fuse is on my power supply: 3A / 250VAC slo-blo.
Rhing, it looks like it is a lot cleaner to use on on-board power supply rather than a laptop charger. Which power supply did you end up using? Was it hard to install? You finished enclosure looks great! :thumb: I may end up building two amps, one with preamp and one without.
Anybody tried building a 6-channel amp (blue board) using one power supply?
-
I completed a second Yuan Jing 2.0 blue amp build. In this case, I used a Panasonic EVJ 50kohm log taper pot just like lacro's standalone volume control box. These work really well with these Texas Instruments Class D amps and they are very reasonably priced at $1.70 each from Digikey (PN P2G1503-ND).
After receiving the amp module within a week from Yuan Jing, I first removed the stock DC decoupling caps, the input caps and the inductors to begin the upgrade process. Removing the stock inductors and installing the Bourns inductors is not a job for the novice. It was a bit tricky without ripping the surface mount pads from the amp board. I thought I could just heat the solder joints simultaneously with two solder irons and the inductors would fall off. However, the solder that Yuan Jing uses hardly reflows. I had to use a toothpick to apply some gel flux paste to the solder joints and heat the joints with my solder iron while very gently lifting the stock inductors off the board. The space is very tight, so depending on the size of your solder iron, some people may need to temporarily remove adjacent caps to make more room and avoid burning anything. With patience and a gentle tug on the inductors while reflowing the solder joints, I was able to neatly remove them all and keep the surface mount pads in place. After that, I had a lot of cleanup with alcohol and cotton swabs. You can see I couldn't get it spotless, but it was good enough.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96721)
Next, I populated the board with the following:
- Panasonic FM electrolytic caps, DC decoupling............Mouser 667-EEU-FM1E152
....................................... .....................................Di gikey P12380-ND - Wima MKP10 film caps, input coupling.......................Mouser 505-M101.0/250/5
- Bourns 10uH inductors, output filter........ ..............Mouser 652-2100HT-100-V-RC
....................................... .....................................Di gikey 2100HT-100-V-RC-ND
To mount the inductors, I snipped off the excess lead length and bent the legs to create "feet" to make more contact with the solder pads on the board. I applied generous amounts of solder for good electrical and mechanical connections. With a little work, the inductors fit neatly on the board. I like the fact that the layout has two outside inductors sitting forward from the two inside inductors. This created a bit more room to fit the inductors without having to position them at an angle.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96722)
I wired up the amp with some Belden 88641 shielded twisted pair hook-up wire and tied the shields to the source end grounds only (i.e., RCA jack ground tabs). For mounting the board, I used 4-40 Nylon standoffs and screws.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96723)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96726)
Later, I added a small green LED to indicate when the amp is powered on. I have a 5.1kohm 1/4 watt resistor wired in series with the LED to keep it bright enough to see in daylight, but not too bright during night time listening. I had drilled a pin hole through the face plate to all the green LED to shine through.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96724)
I have been burning this amp in using my Alan Parsons Sound Check 2 test CD, which has multiple test tones, frequency tone sweeps and uncompressed music tracks. I try to put as much as 10-20 hours of burn-in time with this CD playing in repeat mode. It really gives the amp a workout, and it seems to shorten the burn-in process.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96725)
I've been listening to music off and on since yesterday, and I have to say these mods really add a noticeable level of refinement to the sound quality. The music is more natural-sounding with more detail and transparency. The stock amp is nice, but the mods really revealed how veiled the sound is. The amp sounds smoother, especially with strings, cymbals and vocals.
Why not replace the other 2 1ufs? FWIW I have some Radio Shacks in mine. They're a good PP cap FTM.
-
I absolutely love this thread! Lots of good info and ideas. A while back I ordered a 3116 board with the volume control but failed to order a pre terminated rca cable. I figured, "what the heck, I'll solder the leads on to the board and connect it to my own RCA jacks." Needless to say, I was successful, but the board looks really bad. I'm very much a beginner...... I now would like to order a couple of the Yaun Jing 2.0 blue amp boards but would like to use a pre terminated rca cable to connect to my own RCA jacks. Does anyone know where I can find an rca cable that has the required plastic connector? Or better yet, a store that I could order just the plastic connector?
The website shows 2 pre-terminated cables available, but I was hoping to use my own RCA Jacks.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom
-
Rhing, it looks like it is a lot cleaner to use on on-board power supply rather than a laptop charger. Which power supply did you end up using? Was it hard to install? You finished enclosure looks great! :thumb: I may end up building two amps, one with preamp and one without.
Anybody tried building a 6-channel amp (blue board) using one power supply?
I use an Astron RS-12A 13.8V regulated linear power supply that I purchased used through Craigslist. It's a great power supply that is built to last and it can put out up to 9A current continuously.
For multi-channel use off a single power supply, you will need to connect one amp as a master and the other amps as slaves. This is not very easily implemented and you would need to understand the physical layout of the Yuan Jing amp boards to make the correct connections if you felt it was worth the effort. I'm a 2-channel music lover and I have not had any need to go with a multi-channel application.
Why not replace the other 2 1ufs? FWIW I have some Radio Shacks in mine. They're a good PP cap FTM.
That's a great idea. I will implement this on my first amp. The one in your post is going to a friend who asked me to build one of these amps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95695)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95697)
I absolutely love this thread! Lots of good info and ideas. A while back I ordered a 3116 board with the volume control but failed to order a pre terminated rca cable. I figured, "what the heck, I'll solder the leads on to the board and connect it to my own RCA jacks." Needless to say, I was successful, but the board looks really bad. I'm very much a beginner...... I now would like to order a couple of the Yaun Jing 2.0 blue amp boards but would like to use a pre terminated rca cable to connect to my own RCA jacks. Does anyone know where I can find an rca cable that has the required plastic connector? Or better yet, a store that I could order just the plastic connector?
The website shows 2 pre-terminated cables available, but I was hoping to use my own RCA Jacks.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom
Don't know about a cable, but you can buy the connectors and crimp terminations by searching the Web for "JST XH 3 Pin Connector" and "JST Crimp Connector," or you can purchase them from a reputable source like Digikey:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=455-2219-ND (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=455-2219-ND)
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=455-1135-1-ND (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=455-1135-1-ND)
-
Does anyone know of some world class diy linear powersupplies that would work well with these amps?
I have spent the last two years with the TBI Millenia amp. I tried all sorts of batteries and power supplies, 12v and 24v. The better sound is with a 12v battery than the 24v battery, the absolute best sound is with the Ten Tec 937 12v ham radio power supply. This is a linear power supply. They usually sell used for $35-65 on Ebay. There is one currently for sale at $65 or best offer. This PSU gives the biggest soundstage and most transparency than anything else I tried.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-Power-Supply-Model-937-Ham-Radio-/331150287159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1a186137
-
Rhing,
Thank you for the information!
tom
-
And BTW, this Ten Tec linear power supply weighs a whopping 10 pounds for such a tiny unit. My buddy Rex has a $450 King Rex power supply we compared it to and the Ten Tec smoked it. The Ten Tec 937 puts out 11 amps. You need a very high quality linear power supply for ham radios. If this was built for audio, no doubt it would have a $500 price tag on it.
These TPA amps with the Ten Tec is absolutely incredible with Dennis Murphy's modded Pioneers. It makes you wonder, why ever spend more? TPA 3116 Amp $88, Ten Tec-$60 Murphy's Pioneers-$150, Oppo 980H $75-$100. For well less than $500 you have a complete killer system.
-
And BTW, this Ten Tec linear power supply weighs a whopping 10 pounds for such a tiny unit. My buddy Rex has a $450 King Rex power supply we compared it to and the Ten Tec smoked it. The Ten Tec 937 puts out 11 amps. You need a very high quality linear power supply for ham radios. If this was built for audio, no doubt it would have a $500 price tag on it.
These TPA amps with the Ten Tec is absolutely incredible with Dennis Murphy's modded Pioneers. It makes you wonder, why ever spend more? TPA 3116 Amp $88, Ten Tec-$60 Murphy's Pioneers-$150, Oppo 980H $75-$100. For well less than $500 you have a complete killer system.
Thanks for the heads up Tom
-
Wildly curious about how these budget modules compare to the ClassD Audio SDS series amps??
Better chip?
-
Wildly curious about how these budget modules compare to the ClassD Audio SDS series amps??
Better chip?
Power differences aside, yes the TPA is an overall cleaner and clearer sounding amp - though I could see others preferring the CDA/SDS presentation.
-
Are the TPA3110 and TPS3116 obviously the best of the new modules? What about some of the higher powered options?
I'm in the process of building some bass bins which will use the AE TD15M 15" driver. These will be midbass drivers in sealed boxes which I'll actively cross to subs. However I will probably want to force extension of their reach down lower than the winISD numbers (f3 ~ 70hz) project for ~ 3.25 cu ft box. This will require some power. I'm not sure if the TPS3116 would run out gas in this application or not. The TD15M's are 98db efficient so in most cases the TPS3116 would supply plenty of power but since I'm doing the active crossover thing more oomph may be needed. I generally listen at moderate levels but like plenty of headroom.
I don't want to get too OT here but I'm looking for guidance on what's hot among the higher power modules with SQ being paramount. If I do get a higher powered unit, I'll start a separate thread.
-
Are the TPA3110 and TPS3116 obviously the best of the new modules? What about some of the higher powered options?
I'm in the process of building some bass bins which will use the AE TD15M 15" driver. These will be midbass drivers in sealed boxes which I'll actively cross to subs. However I will probably want to force extension of their reach down lower than the winISD numbers (f3 ~ 70hz) project for ~ 3.25 cu ft box. This will require some power. I'm not sure if the TPS3116 would run out gas in this application or not. The TD15M's are 98db efficient so in most cases the TPS3116 would supply plenty of power but since I'm doing the active crossover thing more oomph may be needed. I generally listen at moderate levels but like plenty of headroom.
I don't want to get too OT here but I'm looking for guidance on what's hot among the higher power modules with SQ being paramount. If I do get a higher powered unit, I'll start a separate thread.
Not much out there on the higher output TI amps. Happyrabbit is building a TAS5xxx in the The Lab, you can check in with him.
-
So my 3116 YJ blue board has this issue: if the amp is powered on, but there are no inputs (or the input source is powered off), there is an audible hiss coming out of the speakers. On the diyaudio forum, it was suggested to put 100k resistors across the inputs. I did that, but the hiss remains.
My 3110 doesn't do this; in fact, since it draws so little power, I just leave it turned on all the time. I was hoping to do the same with the 3116, but don't want to do that with the hiss. Any suggestions on where I might look to trouble shoot this? It completely goes away when the inputs are connected and the input source (DAC) is powered on (even if there is no actual music playing).
-
So here's my 3116 build. Pretty sloppy but since I am always tinkering I tend to leave things messy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96921)
The sound quality of these amps can't be overstated.
-
So here's my 3116 build. Pretty sloppy but since I am always tinkering I tend to leave things messy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96921)
The sound quality of these amps can't be overstated.
Did you mention earlier that you bought those 1uf input caps from Radioshack?
-
Did you mention earlier that you bought those 1uf input caps from Radioshack?
Yes. I don't see them listed online anymore but there may still be some at a local store. I can't imagine anyone running to RS for polyprop caps so you maybe in luck. I have a fourth one somewhere but couldn't find it.
Might try some fancy caps later.
-
So my 3116 YJ blue board has this issue: if the amp is powered on, but there are no inputs (or the input source is powered off), there is an audible hiss coming out of the speakers. On the diyaudio forum, it was suggested to put 100k resistors across the inputs. I did that, but the hiss remains.
My 3110 doesn't do this; in fact, since it draws so little power, I just leave it turned on all the time. I was hoping to do the same with the 3116, but don't want to do that with the hiss. Any suggestions on where I might look to trouble shoot this? It completely goes away when the inputs are connected and the input source (DAC) is powered on (even if there is no actual music playing).
Hm, dunno. You're saying it the hissing stops when the inputs are connected but the source is off as well?
-
Hm, dunno. You're saying it the hissing stops when the inputs are connected but the source is off as well?
No, the hissing stops when the source is on (regardless of music playing or not). In other words:
No input connection = hiss
Input connection, source off = hiss
Input connection, source on = no hiss
Presumably, source connected but turned off is the same electrically as not connected, but I'm not 100% that's the case. (Source is an original Cambridge Audio DACMagic FWIW.)
-
wushuliu
can I get a birds eye view of your build please?
-
So....
If there is a 2.1 version (2x50 watt + 1x100 watt) why is there no 100watt version?
Either a 2x100 or 1x100 mono version?
-
So....
If there is a 2.1 version (2x50 watt + 1x100 watt) why is there no 100watt version?
Either a 2x100 or 1x100 mono version?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-Support-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294927725?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdb76d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-Support-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294927725?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdb76d)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-The-only-with-speaker-protection-/161254188864?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258b7fa740 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-The-only-with-speaker-protection-/161254188864?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258b7fa740)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-DIY-KIT-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294940702?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdea1e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-DIY-KIT-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294940702?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdea1e)
-
wushuliu
can I get a birds eye view of your build please?
If I'm feeling less lazy I'll pull it out and take a pic.
We're talking about my amp right?
ba dum bum!
-
Rated Output Power: [Stereo] 2 x 50W @ 4 Ohm, [Mono] 1 x100W @ 2Ohm
Hmm... anybody know what the rated output would be for mono @8 ohms?
-
If I'm feeling less lazy I'll pull it out and take a pic.
We're talking about my amp right?
ba dum bum!
:lol:
-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-Support-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294927725?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdb76d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-Support-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294927725?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdb76d)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-The-only-with-speaker-protection-/161254188864?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258b7fa740 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amplifier-board-TPA3116-Class-D-2x50W-The-only-with-speaker-protection-/161254188864?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item258b7fa740)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-DIY-KIT-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294940702?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdea1e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-DIY-KIT-STEREO-50Wx2-or-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294940702?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdea1e)
Took you 8 minutes to reply.
Slacker...
:P
-
So here's my 3116 build. Pretty sloppy but since I am always tinkering I tend to leave things messy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96921)
The sound quality of these amps can't be overstated.
Holy shirt Batman!! You sure like doing mods :thumb: Thanks for sharing! The bank of caps on the DC power input looks like they are different brands and different values? Are they just ones you had lying around? Most of all do they make a significant difference in SQ?
Lacro
-
Holy shirt Batman!! You sure like doing mods :thumb: Thanks for sharing! The bank of caps on the DC power input looks like they are different brands and different values? Are they just ones you had lying around? Most of all do they make a significant difference in SQ?
Lacro
Yes just caps I had on hand. I do think having a reserve of PS caps helps with SQ. How many and what values is another question. Power supply configuration does impact SQ and I think more experimentation needs to be done in this regard. Input caps I think are more subtle once you use polyprop or better.
I think this is about as far as I'll go with this 3116. Next step will be build mono boards, replace output filters with ferrite beads and install as close to the speakers as possible to minimize cable length. But that may be a little while. For now I intend to enjoy this truly amazing amp. I think I can say with certainty now that it outperforms the TBI Millenia.
-
Wow! That's quite a claim to make, but you have first-hand experience with auditioning the TBI Millenia. All I know is that even with loading these amps with mods and put them in nice enclosures, you still end up with an amp that can compete with amps costing much, much more.
BTW, I thought those Radio Shack blue film caps were metallized Polyester, not metallized Polypropylene. In any case, they are a well-kept secret bargain in the audio world. I actually prefer those over Obbliggato film caps. I have some in my stash and I'll put those on my amp where the smaller 1uF / 63V blue box caps sit at the inputs (LINN and RINN according the Texas Instruments data sheet).
-
Wow! That's quite a claim to make, but you have first-hand experience with auditioning the TBI Millenia. All I know is that even with loading these amps with mods and put them in nice enclosures, you still end up with an amp that can compete with amps costing much, much more.
BTW, I thought those Radio Shack blue film caps were metallized Polyester, not metallized Polypropylene. In any case, they are a well-kept secret bargain in the audio world. I actually prefer those over Obbliggato film caps. I have some in my stash and I'll put those on my amp where the smaller 1uF / 63V blue box caps sit at the inputs (LINN and RINN according the Texas Instruments data sheet).
I already swapped out 2 of the RS and put in 1uf AMPohm ALuminum PIO. Yum! Maybe the RS are polyester I've had them so long I don't remember how I heard about them or maybe I saw them while rummaging for switches and fuses at the local store and just grabbed a few. Anyhoos yes they're great. They really get out of the way.
I thought the TBI sounded about the same as the stock 3100D2 eval board it's based on. Very good but not better than an optimized 3110 or 3116 to my ears, with emphasis on optimized.
The RS caps are readily available at the local store and CHEAP!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515)
-
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good C&C shielded cable that I use for signal input wiring on these amps, AND also be able to use the same cable to make short IC's for connecting Pre/Amp/DAC. Something that is flexible, and small diameter that can be bought by the foot?
-
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good C&C shielded cable that I use for signal input wiring on these amps, AND also be able to use the same cable to make short IC's for connecting Pre/Amp/DAC. Something that is flexible, and small diameter that can be bought by the foot?
I purchased the shielded cable from http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html but have not used it yet. I believe Jim McShane has something similar.
-
I already swapped out 2 of the RS and put in 1uf AMPohm ALuminum PIO. Yum! Maybe the RS are polyester I've had them so long I don't remember how I heard about them or maybe I saw them while rummaging for switches and fuses at the local store and just grabbed a few. Anyhoos yes they're great. They really get out of the way.
I thought the TBI sounded about the same as the stock 3100D2 eval board it's based on. Very good but not better than an optimized 3110 or 3116 to my ears, with emphasis on optimized.
The RS caps are readily available at the local store and CHEAP!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515)
But you never heard the TBI with the PPS caps or power supply mod. Those factory mods made a world do difference in the overall sound.
-
But you never heard the TBI with the PPS caps or power supply mod. Those factory mods made a world do difference in the overall sound.
I've used PPS caps (both discontinued Wima, Panasonic, and SMD types) on previous builds. Not my cup of tea but maybe TBI got hold of some particularly good ones. I'd be curious to know the power supply mod. Some kind of CRC filter I think it was?
On the flip side the TBI comes with basic small value PS caps (470uf IIRC). I think you need at least 1000 to get real body out of the amp. Not sure why that is not offered as an upgrade. Just about everyone who's beefed up PS value agrees it improves sound quality. Preferably Elna Silmic or Nichicon Muse. Different inductors make a difference as well.
Unless that CRC filter really takes things to a whole other level I'm confident the stock YJ TPA3116 black and blue board is at least as good.
-
I purchased the shielded cable from http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html but have not used it yet. I believe Jim McShane has something similar.
For those who are not fans of silver-plated wire Gepco/Redco is another option. Quick delivery. Many options.
http://www.redco.com/Gepco-XB401.html (http://www.redco.com/Gepco-XB401.html)
-
The PPS caps than Jan used on the TBI is brand new, military spec, no other company has tried these yet.
-
For those who are not fans of silver-plated wire Gepco/Redco is another option. Quick delivery. Many options.
http://www.redco.com/Gepco-XB401.html (http://www.redco.com/Gepco-XB401.html)
Wushuliu...
When using the type of cable in your link, how is it connected? The 2 conductors I assume are used for one channel and ground, but how is the drain wire and braid connected? Does the drain wire go to ground on one end or both? Also, would this cable be a good choice for unbalanced IC's with RCA terminations? Redco is close to me so shipping would be quick.
(http://i.imgur.com/AgIWTKb.jpg)
-
Wushuliu...
When using the type of cable in your link, how is it connected? The 2 conductors I assume are used for one channel and ground, but how is the drain wire and braid connected? Does the drain wire go to ground on one end or both? Also, would this cable be a good choice for unbalanced IC's with RCA terminations? Redco is close to me so shipping would be quick.
(http://i.imgur.com/AgIWTKb.jpg)
Drain wire to ground at the rca input.
I haven't made ICs with them yet but intend to soon.
-
I see that Ten tec 937 sold on Ebay. I hope it was from someone here on AC. After spending about 20 months using battery on the TBI, last four months with the Ten Tec 937, I will never go back to battery. The improvement is very obvious.
-
I already swapped out 2 of the RS and put in 1uf AMPohm ALuminum PIO. Yum! Maybe the RS are polyester I've had them so long I don't remember how I heard about them or maybe I saw them while rummaging for switches and fuses at the local store and just grabbed a few. Anyhoos yes they're great. They really get out of the way.
I thought the TBI sounded about the same as the stock 3100D2 eval board it's based on. Very good but not better than an optimized 3110 or 3116 to my ears, with emphasis on optimized.
The RS caps are readily available at the local store and CHEAP!
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102515)
So, I've order three of these blue/black TPA3116 2.0 boards that I plan to mod and put into cases. Any strong preference for these Radio Shack metal film caps vs these Wima polypropylene film caps from Mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=MKP1F041005I00JYSDvirtualkey50520000virtualkey505-M101.0%2f250%2f5
The Radio Shack caps are a little cheaper (and I'm a cheapskate), but not by a whole lot ($1.99 each vs. $2.76 each). Not that it really matters, but the blue color matches the board nicely. I have a shopping cart of parts at Mouser ready to pull the trigger, then I came across this thread. Check the Radio Shack web site and the local store, that I drive right past every day on my way to and from work, has them in stock. Maybe I should try modding one board with each and do an A/B test to see if I can hear any difference.
-
Redco is a very good US vender.
Gepco is a good bulk cable manufacture.
For RCA analog interconnects use a coax with specs similar to the Blue Jeans LC-1 cable.
-
I see that Ten tec 937 sold on Ebay. I hope it was from someone here on AC. After spending about 20 months using battery on the TBI, last four months with the Ten Tec 937, I will never go back to battery. The improvement is very obvious.
It will be in my possession sometime next week. 8)
Thanks for the heads up Tom. :thumb:
-
On the flip side the TBI comes with basic small value PS caps (470uf IIRC). I think you need at least 1000 to get real body out of the amp.
No problems here with body on the TBI. In fact if I get anymore body, the TBI would sound like a trannie tube amp, too much. This is on speakers like Zellaton Emotions, Rethm Maargas, Rethm Trishnas, KEF LS50's, Pioneer 22's, and Dennis Murpheys modded 22's. For the source, I am using the AMR DP777 and Sony HAP-Z1ES. This Z1 is making the TBI sound even more incredible.
Here is a new listing on Aiudiogon for a used TBI amp for $350 if anyone is looking for one.
http://dcn6dj2nji5qr.cloudfront.net/listings/solid-state-tbi-audio-systems-millenia-mg3-integrated-amplifier-2014-03-29-integrateds-92115
-
So, I've order three of these blue/black TPA3116 2.0 boards that I plan to mod and put into cases. Any strong preference for these Radio Shack metal film caps vs these Wima polypropylene film caps from Mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=MKP1F041005I00JYSDvirtualkey50520000virtualkey505-M101.0%2f250%2f5
The Radio Shack caps are a little cheaper (and I'm a cheapskate), but not by a whole lot ($1.99 each vs. $2.76 each). Not that it really matters, but the blue color matches the board nicely. I have a shopping cart of parts at Mouser ready to pull the trigger, then I came across this thread. Check the Radio Shack web site and the local store, that I drive right past every day on my way to and from work, has them in stock. Maybe I should try modding one board with each and do an A/B test to see if I can hear any difference.
OK, picked up 4 of the Radio Shack 272-1055 caps at my local store (that was all they had in stock) and ordered 2 of the Wimas from Mouser (along with some Panasonic FMs and some Bourns toroidal inductors). I ordered 3 of the Yuan Ling blue/black TPA3116 2.0 boards on Friday. So, it will probably be a couple weeks before they get here.
I'm really looking forward to getting these things up and running. Since I will have 3 boards, I'll do an unmodified vs. Radio Shack vs. Wima comparison.
-
OK, picked up 4 of the Radio Shack 272-1055 caps at my local store (that was all they had in stock) and ordered 2 of the Wimas from Mouser (along with some Panasonic FMs and some Bourns toroidal inductors). I ordered 3 of the Yuan Ling blue/black TPA3116 2.0 boards on Friday. So, it will probably be a couple weeks before they get here.
I'm really looking forward to getting these things up and running. Since I will have 3 boards, I'll do an unmodified vs. Radio Shack vs. Wima comparison.
Depending on where you are if you ordered direct from YJ you should get the boards in about 10 days, maybe less.
have fun!
-
Depending on where you are if you ordered direct from YJ you should get the boards in about 10 days, maybe less.
I ordered them from eBay seller hiamplifier. eBay estimates the delivery date to be between April 4 and April 11. He's located in in Hong Kong and I'm in Oregon. So, I'm hopeful it will be closer to the 4th than the 11th. I ordered from him because his price, for 3 boards including shipping was over $10.00 cheaper than ordering directly from YJ.
have fun!
Oh I will. In fact, I am already. So glad I found this "circle". I'm definitely cheap and also very cheerful - especially when listening to great sounding music on equipment that didn't break my bank account. I'm definitely going to like it around here.
-
Depending on where you are if you ordered direct from YJ you should get the boards in about 10 days, maybe less.
have fun!
I wish that were true for my right side of the US location. My experience with YJ is they don't even ship for at least a week. My blue board took 3 painful weeks. I like YJ and feel they are probably more reliable and trustworthy than some. Plus they actually shipped my blue board in a box, not an envelope :thumb: You guys on the left coast are lucky with 7-10 day Lead Times!
I placed my order on March 18th. It was accepted at the Hong Kong sort facility on the 25th (1 week later).
Left Hong Kong on the 26th, arrived at SF CA. the SAME DAY :thumb:
BTW/ If you want to get the most up to date tracking once your package leaves HK, copy the tracking number supplied by the shipper, and paste it into the USPS tracking site: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action.
Here's the current tracking on my 3 tube amp from YJ, getting close; maybe it will beat 2 weeks :D:
(http://i.imgur.com/gvRgAzol.jpg)
-
In my never ending quest to be cheap, which always keeps me cheerful, I'm considering building these amps without a power switch. I've been reading all sort of nastiness about switching DC, and the NKK P2011E toggle switch rhing recommends is $8.00 each at Digikey.
I know I can just plug it into a power strip and use that to turn the amp on and off. In fact, in my main system, I have a Panamax M5300-EX power conditioner I use to turn everything on and off (I got it foe a very cheerful $29.99 at my local Goodwill). So, no need for a power switch on the amp that will go into that system.
But I plan to give the other two to my 14-year old daughter and my girlfriend. For those, is there any reason they can't just be left plugged in and powered on at all times? I don't remember the exact numbers, but I've read where these things consumer very little power in the idle state.
If I do decide to all power switches to those, can anyone recommend something less expensive than the NKK 2011E (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=360-3003-ND&x=0&y=0&formaction=on). Would something like an automotive switch be better? Aren't those designed for switching DC?
-
I wish that were true for my right side of the US location. My experience with YJ is they don't even ship for at least a week. My blue board took 3 painful weeks. I like YJ and feel they are probably more reliable and trustworthy than some. Plus they actually shipped my blue board in a box, not an envelope :thumb: You guys on the left coast are lucky with 7-10 day Lead Times!
I placed my order on March 18th. It was accepted at the Hong Kong sort facility on the 25th (1 week later).
Left Hong Kong on the 26th, arrived at SF CA. the SAME DAY :thumb:
BTW/ If you want to get the most up to date tracking once your package leaves HK, copy the tracking number supplied by the shipper, and paste it into the USPS tracking site: https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction!input.action.
Here's the current tracking on my 3 tube amp from YJ, getting close; maybe it will beat 2 weeks :D:
(http://i.imgur.com/gvRgAzol.jpg)
Looks like yours may make it in one week. That's awesome.
I ordered mine on Friday, which was already early morning Saturday Hong Kong time. So, I don't have a tracking number yet.
-
In my never ending quest to be cheap, which always keeps me cheerful, I'm considering building these amps without a power switch. I've been reading all sort of nastiness about switching DC, and the NKK P2011E toggle switch rhing recommends is $8.00 each at Digikey.
I know I can just plug it into a power strip and use that to turn the amp on and off. In fact, in my main system, I have a Panamax M5300-EX power conditioner I use to turn everything on and off (I got it foe a very cheerful $29.99 at my local Goodwill). So, no need for a power switch on the amp that will go into that system.
But I plan to give the other two to my 14-year old daughter and my girlfriend. For those, is there any reason they can't just be left plugged in and powered on at all times? I don't remember the exact numbers, but I've read where these things consumer very little power in the idle state.
If I do decide to all power switches to those, can anyone recommend something less expensive than the NKK 2011E (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=360-3003-ND&x=0&y=0&formaction=on). Would something like an automotive switch be better? Aren't those designed for switching DC?
The power switch argument on diyAudio.com is complete overkill, but your idea will be okay. I use the high current mini-toggle SPST switches from Radio Shack too, and I don't have problems with arcing or pitting or any of the other shortcomings mentioned. I do like the NKK switch as the contact is pretty solid, and I am willing to pay $8 for it.
-
The power switch argument on diyAudio.com is complete overkill, but you idea will be okay. I use the high current mini-toggle SPST switches from Radio Shack too, and I don't have problems with arcing or pitting or any of the other shortcomings mentioned. I do like the NKK switch as the contact is pretty solid, and I am willing to pay $8 for it.
Yes. NKK makes nice high quality switches.
-
Today tried the "Green Board" TPA3116 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161245338888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I swapped PS decoupling capacitors with 2200uf and bypassed them with 0.1uf wima.
This board sounds the best to my ears. I built two "blue board" amplifiers with various modifications as well. What annoys me with all other boards is turn on - turn off POP, this one seems to have all the proper mute circuitry in place.
Sadly this board seems to be no longer available from the seller.
-
Can you elaborate on the mods you performed on the YJ blue amps?
-
@clefchef,
can you post some pictures of the audiobah amp that you mention. are you running them in mono block mode, since they are configured in pbtl mode.
tia
-
I just posted this an another forum, but since my goal is to build three of these amps as cheaply and cheerfully as possible (while also maximizing sound quality and having an attractive appearance), I thought I'd share the info here as well.
OK, my first parts have started to arrive and I ordered the remaining bits for building three of these amps.
The first parts to arrive were the three Kilo International Wedged Cylindrical knobs I ordered from ebay seller itches_love_my_switches. These are identical to Digikey part number 226-3032-ND recommended by rhing, except they are drilled for a 5mm potentiometer shaft instead of the standard 6mm shaft. But, they are also much cheaper, if bought in quantity. If you own a drill press and are comfortable drilling out the mounting hole to 6mm, this is a good deal on these knobs. They are EXCELLENT quality and VERY nice looking. They sell for $10.60 each plus shipping at Digikey (with the standard 6mm mounting hole). On ebay, he is selling them for $4.00 each with a $5.95 flat rate shipping fee no matter how many you order. Very fast shipping, too. Ordered on Friday, in my mailbox on Monday. Here is what they look like:
(http://media.digikey.com/photos/Kilo%20International%20Photos/HD-90%20CLR_sml.jpg)
Since two of these amps are intended to be gifts, and I can never have too many knobs on hand, I've also ordered some Chinese made solid aluminum knobs from multiple ebay sellers. The first two are the very common, and affordable solid aluminum 30x22mm round knobs:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzM2WDUwMA==/z/NNkAAOxyKsZRxUlO/$T2eC16F,!w0E9szNW4jIBR)UlNfueQ~~60_3.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzMyWDUwMA==/z/yNMAAMXQLs5Rx9mn/$T2eC16V,!yME9s5qGsEQBR)9mn7Fgw~~60_3.JPG)
These knobs are very ubiquitous on ebay. So, I won't bother to mention what sellers I bought mine from. Just do an ebay search for 30x22 aluminum knob and sort by lowest price plus shipping. I got one of the silver knobs for $4.45 including shipping, and four of the black knobs for $14.48, including shipping - that comes to $3.62 each delivered to my door. If you use a lot of knobs and are willing to buy in larger quantities, the price comes down even more. For example, you can get eight of these 30x22 solid aluminum black knobs for $2.87 each including shipping. That's a great price on solid aluminum knobs of this size. I'm anxious to see how the quality compares to the Kilo International knobs.
I also ordered a larger 40x22mm solid aluminum black knob for the amp I'm building for myself. That one wasn't so cheap, at $12.21 delivered, but it's the same size as the tuning knob on my Magnum Dynalab FT-101A and I want it to match.
I have a bid on one other knob that ends on Wednesday. If I win that auction, I'll post a photo of that one, too. Like I said, you can never have too many good quality solid aluminum knobs on hand.
I also ordered three of the Context Engineering cases that rhing recommended from San Jose Scientific. I got two of the 3008 enclosures in black for the basic gift amps for my daughter and girlfriend and one of the larger 4012 enclosures for the one I'm building for myself. In addition to the larger volume knob, I have some additional enhancements planned for that one, which will require the larger case.
Finally, I order three of the Panasonic EVJ 50K log taper pots from Digikey that rhing and larco recommended. I also ordered two these NKK SPST toggle switches:
(http://media.digikey.com/Photos/NKK%20Switches%20Photos/MFG_M2011ES1W01_sml.jpg)
They are rated at 6A/125VAC and 4A/30VDC and are only $4.32 each. The Digikey PN is: 360-3239-ND (http://"http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/M2011ES1W01/360-3239-ND/1049310").
These will be installed on the rear of the two gift amps.
I also added one of these Apem toggle switches to my order:
(http://media.digikey.com/photos/APEM%20Comp%20Photos/631NH~2_sml.jpg)
It is rated at 15A/VAC and sells for $5.25. The Digikey PN is 679-1246-ND (http://"http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/631NH%2F2/679-1246-ND/1280312").
This one is for the front of the amp I am building for myself and more closely matches the toggle switches on my Magnum Dynalab tuner.
So, now everything I need for these builds is on the way. I had also previously ordered the RCA jacks, binding posts, etc., along with the inductors and capacitors to mod the amps. Once the amps are built, I'll post photos and a complete bill of materials with a cost breakdown for each amp.
-
Thanks MCM_Fan. A bill of materials would be excellent. I am surprised that no one offers a kit, e.g.
Board
Board Spacers
Screws
Speaker Terminals
Wire
Connector with RCA Jacks
Power Switch
Knob
Case
Feet
Power Supply (optional)
Are there any manufacturers using these boards in their product?
-
Thanks MCM_Fan. A bill of materials would be excellent. I am surprised that no one offers a kit, e.g.
Board
Board Spacers
Screws
Speaker Terminals
Wire
Connector with RCA Jacks
Power Switch
Knob
Case
Feet
Power Supply (optional)
Are there any manufacturers using these boards in their product?
Probably because costs rise once you add an enclosure to the mix shipped from China. The assembled amp from YJ for $140 shipped is a good deal in that respect.
The TBI Millenia is the only TPA-based retail amp I'm aware of. It uses an older 3100D2 chip.
-
wushuliu
Do you mean this one?
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w?keyword=tpa3116%20cla
-
wushuliu
Do you mean this one?
http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w?keyword=tpa3116%20cla
Yes.
-
My latest TPA3116 with fused on/off switch and on board power supply.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97175)
-
$20, I'll take it!!!!...lol :lol:Very nice work. :thumb: How does it sound?
-
Sweet-looking amp PG. Looks like you had no problems wiring in a volume pot or DC power connector. Does this chassis get your nice Acrylic top treatment too?
-
$20, I'll take it!!!!...lol :lol:Very nice work. :thumb: How does it sound?
Amazing SET like resolution at low levels.
-
Sweet-looking amp PG. Looks like you had no problems wiring in a volume pot or DC power connector. Does this chassis get your nice Acrylic top treatment too?
Got some lint on the acrylic when I sprayed it so I covered it with textured black vinyl. Looks better than the picture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97181)
-
That looks really cool--like slate. You're getting a little artsy now!
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97182)
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97183)
-
Wildly curious about how these budget modules compare to the ClassD Audio SDS series amps??
Better chip?
I haven't had a chance to do a thorough evaluation yet, but, for a quick listen: I'd say my YJ "blue" tpa3116 build is on-par with my Class D Audio SDS-470 build.
Just to give a little more detail on my setup, it's: optical spdif to Emotiva XDA-1 (used as a DAC and volume control), to amp, to Salk Songtowers.
My SDS-470 is a little different than the stock. For one, it uses a Connex SMPS800R power supply, instead of the stock linear PSU. Two, I use fixed resistors in place of the gain pots that come with the amp. Three, it's XLR input only (RCAs aren't even wired up). I do have a stock SDS-470 (for sale, BTW, shameless plug (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124909.0)), and I think my tweaked version sounds slightly better.
Clearly, the SDS-470 wins in absolute power, by a factor of 10x. I thought that might be a problem for the tpa3116. But my listening levels are quite modest, and for what little I've played with the tpa3116, I think it's got enough juice for my needs.
Take this with a huge grain of salt, as I haven't had time to do a lot of listening to the tpa3116, and if you believe in break-in, mine definitely isn't broken in yet. But for a first pass, I'd say that if I didn't already have the SDS-470, I'd probably be content with the tpa3116... particularly given the price!
Changing gears a bit: regarding stock YJ tpa3116 versus my slightly modded Sure tpa3110: I think I have to go against the grain here and give the edge to the tpa3110. I didn't spend a lot of time with the 3116, as I was turned off by the hiss-with-no-input problem. (Which, by the way, seems to be a "feature" of these boards, not a problem with mine). I also didn't install a volume control on my 3116, since I was planning to use it as a power amp on the ST rig. But this means, I had to use software volume control, which may influence the sound. (I think I'm doing things optimally, though, listening to FLAC CD rips (44/16), but increasing the bit rate to 24 in Foobar2000; at least in theory, that should leave the 16 bits of sound data intact, and the extra 8 go to volume control.)
Note that the tpa311x comparison took place with my desktop rig: optical spdif to Cambridge Audio DACMagic, to amp, to DIY Overnight Sensations speakers.
-
I haven't had a chance to do a thorough evaluation yet, but, for a quick listen: I'd say my YJ "blue" tpa3116 build is on-par with my Class D Audio SDS-470 build.
Just to give a little more detail on my setup, it's: optical spdif to Emotiva XDA-1 (used as a DAC and volume control), to amp, to Salk Songtowers.
My SDS-470 is a little different than the stock. For one, it uses a Connex SMPS800R power supply, instead of the stock linear PSU. Two, I use fixed resistors in place of the gain pots that come with the amp. Three, it's XLR input only (RCAs aren't even wired up). I do have a stock SDS-470 (for sale, BTW, shameless plug (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124909.0)), and I think my tweaked version sounds slightly better.
Clearly, the SDS-470 wins in absolute power, by a factor of 10x. I thought that might be a problem for the tpa3116. But my listening levels are quite modest, and for what little I've played with the tpa3116, I think it's got enough juice for my needs.
Take this with a huge grain of salt, as I haven't had time to do a lot of listening to the tpa3116, and if you believe in break-in, mine definitely isn't broken in yet. But for a first pass, I'd say that if I didn't already have the SDS-470, I'd probably be content with the tpa3116... particularly given the price!
Changing gears a bit: regarding stock YJ tpa3116 versus my slightly modded Sure tpa3110: I think I have to go against the grain here and give the edge to the tpa3110. I didn't spend a lot of time with the 3116, as I was turned off by the hiss-with-no-input problem. (Which, by the way, seems to be a "feature" of these boards, not a problem with mine). I also didn't install a volume control on my 3116, since I was planning to use it as a power amp on the ST rig. But this means, I had to use software volume control, which may influence the sound. (I think I'm doing things optimally, though, listening to FLAC CD rips (44/16), but increasing the bit rate to 24 in Foobar2000; at least in theory, that should leave the 16 bits of sound data intact, and the extra 8 go to volume control.)
Note that the tpa311x comparison took place with my desktop rig: optical spdif to Cambridge Audio DACMagic, to amp, to DIY Overnight Sensations speakers.
Not bad for the stock 3116 considering your other amps were modded. Goes to show though how responsive these amps are to modest changes, at least to my ears.
Wish Connex made an SMPS that went down to 21v or so...
-
Not bad for the stock 3116 considering your other amps were modded. Goes to show though how responsive these amps are to modest changes, at least to my ears.
Wish Connex made an SMPS that went down to 21v or so...
Check out the smps300re. One of the stock voltage options is 24v, but the description says he'll do any custom voltage from 20v up to 85v (extra charge for custom option). But it ships with an adjustable trim pot, which iirc is +/- 10%, so you could get pretty close to 21v with a stock unit.
-
The TBI Millenia is the only TPA-based retail amp I'm aware of.
There is also Tri-Art Audio out of Canada. They use to use the tri-path chips.
http://triartaudio.com/
I still say your best sound will be with that Ten Tec 937 linear ham radio power supply that puts out 11 amps. My buddy Rex and I tried everything the last two years that we could find on the TBI and accidentally ran across this Ten Tec in his closet. Rex had bought a new one ten years ago and he had never used it. It will give you the biggest soundstage and the best detail of all. And it was not a minor improvement.
-
Check out the smps300re. One of the stock voltage options is 24v, but the description says he'll do any custom voltage from 20v up to 85v (extra charge for custom option). But it ships with an adjustable trim pot, which iirc is +/- 10%, so you could get pretty close to 21v with a stock unit.
Those are dual rail +/- supplies. His single rail I think are only 24v and higher, but I should just ask him.
-
There is also Tri-Art Audio out of Canada. They use to use the tri-path chips.
http://triartaudio.com/
I still say your best sound will be with that Ten Tec 937 linear ham radio power supply that puts out 11 amps. My buddy Rex and I tried everything the last two years that we could find on the TBI and accidentally ran across this Ten Tec in his closet. Rex had bought a new one ten years ago and he had never used it. It will give you the biggest soundstage and the best detail of all. And it was not a minor improvement.
The catch with the TenTec is the 13.8v limitation which although okay with my current speakers only gets me 20w at 4ohms vs. 40w at 21v. But I've got the TenTecs on my radar.
-
How does it work on your radar unit?
Never mind.
-
The catch with the TenTec is the 13.8v limitation which although okay with my current speakers only gets me 20w at 4ohms vs. 40w at 21v. But I've got the TenTecs on my radar.
I wish it was more voltage at times, but even with the 86db Zellaton's I use, I can still get the volume up fairly loud. I just never heard anything 24v that would touch the Ten Tec in sound quality.
-
How does it work on your radar unit?
Never mind.
:D
-
There is also Tri-Art Audio out of Canada. They use to use the tri-path chips.
http://triartaudio.com/
I still say your best sound will be with that Ten Tec 937 linear ham radio power supply that puts out 11 amps. My buddy Rex and I tried everything the last two years that we could find on the TBI and accidentally ran across this Ten Tec in his closet. Rex had bought a new one ten years ago and he had never used it. It will give you the biggest soundstage and the best detail of all. And it was not a minor improvement.
Interesting that the Ten Tec 937 bears a striking resemblance to the Astron SL-11A, which really puts out 7A continuous duty. This power supply is still offered by Astron. What other regulated linear power supplies have you and your friend Rex tried with the TBI Millenia? Have you compared the TBI Millenia to the TPA3116D2 amps that have been covered in this thread?
-
Today tried the "Green Board" TPA3116 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161245338888?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I swapped PS decoupling capacitors with 2200uf and bypassed them with 0.1uf wima.
This board sounds the best to my ears. I built two "blue board" amplifiers with various modifications as well. What annoys me with all other boards is turn on - turn off POP, this one seems to have all the proper mute circuitry in place.
Sadly this board seems to be no longer available from the seller.
I have noticed this seller doesn't have listings all the time, but they do reappear from time to time. Does seller supply schematic? You seem to be saying this is not standard TI evm or datasheet, since 0.1uF ceramics are already used then or do you mean you added another 0.1uF decoupling/bypass or replaced the existing ceramics? He uses double inductors I believe, does the casing say which?
-
Would this work as a good power supply for the amp
http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM93PWS2473&Category_Code=PWS
-
Interesting that the Ten Tec 937 bears a striking resemblance to the Astron SL-11A, which really puts out 7A continuous duty. This power supply is still offered by Astron. What other regulated linear power supplies have you and your friend Rex tried with the TBI Millenia? Have you compared the TBI Millenia to the TPA3116D2 amps that have been covered in this thread?
What do you guys think of these Pyramid power supplies, like the PS12KX (http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-PS12KX-13-8V-Power-Supply/dp/B0002JTD1Q/)? Like the Astron and Ten Tec that have been mentioned, it puts out 13.8 Volts. Claims 10 amp constant duty, although various reviews suggest that's a little optimistic. So call it 8 amps continuous. I mention these only because they are readily available, and cheaper than Astron/Ten Tec (excluding ebay/CL bargains).
Those are dual rail +/- supplies. His single rail I think are only 24v and higher, but I should just ask him.
Ahh, good catch, I missed that. Well, the SMPS300RS (http://connexelectronic.com/product_info.php/cPath/25_46/products_id/128?osCsid=1m97ospje5v3rapssfdqknuq36) is single output, and a stock 24V can be adjusted from 22.5v to 26v. The description says any custom voltage from 18v to 180v.
I'm curious about the sound quality between linear and switch-mode PSUs... Linear seems to get the nod with the tpa311x, but with my SDS-470, I thought my Connex SMPS was better. I wonder if one is really better than the other, or if it's just a matter of SMPS getting a bad rap due to cheap ones being so ubiquitous? I got my dad a no-name laptop brick off ebay for like $10: I swear the cord weighed more than the PSU itself, not to mention it was only a month or so before it shorted and melted the case. I would like to think that e.g. a Connex SMPS is better engineered and manufactured.
-
What do you guys think of these Pyramid power supplies, like the PS12KX (http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-PS12KX-13-8V-Power-Supply/dp/B0002JTD1Q/)? Like the Astron and Ten Tec that have been mentioned, it puts out 13.8 Volts. Claims 10 amp constant duty, although various reviews suggest that's a little optimistic. So call it 8 amps continuous. I mention these only because they are readily available, and cheaper than Astron/Ten Tec (excluding ebay/CL bargains).
Ahh, good catch, I missed that. Well, the SMPS300RS (http://connexelectronic.com/product_info.php/cPath/25_46/products_id/128?osCsid=1m97ospje5v3rapssfdqknuq36) is single output, and a stock 24V can be adjusted from 22.5v to 26v. The description says any custom voltage from 18v to 180v.
I'm curious about the sound quality between linear and switch-mode PSUs... Linear seems to get the nod with the tpa311x, but with my SDS-470, I thought my Connex SMPS was better. I wonder if one is really better than the other, or if it's just a matter of SMPS getting a bad rap due to cheap ones being so ubiquitous? I got my dad a no-name laptop brick off ebay for like $10: I swear the cord weighed more than the PSU itself, not to mention it was only a month or so before it shorted and melted the case. I would like to think that e.g. a Connex SMPS is better engineered and manufactured.
Thanks for the SMPS300 link, I might have to give that one a try then. The Pyramid from my experience does not sound as good as a battery or Meanwell SMPS. However here in SoCal the power is awful so it could be that the SMPS simply does a better job of regulating the crappy power than the linear. So YMMV.
I think the quality of the PS design is more important than the type. The Astron and TenTec look to be far, far better than the Pyramid and the price reflects that.
An SLA battery is still a great budget option though if you can swing it.
-
Thanks for the SMPS300 link, I might have to give that one a try then. The Pyramid from my experience does not sound as good as a battery or Meanwell SMPS. However here in SoCal the power is awful so it could be that the SMPS simply does a better job of regulating the crappy power than the linear. So YMMV.
I think the quality of the PS design is more important than the type. The Astron and TenTec look to be far, far better than the Pyramid and the price reflects that.
An SLA battery is still a great budget option though if you can swing it.
I think swinging a big SLA battery would be a good workout. Ha! :)
-
FYI, here's some tech info on Astron PS. I'd be curious what the Tentecs use:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/astron/astron-intro-stuff.html (http://www.repeater-builder.com/astron/astron-intro-stuff.html)
-
Thanks for the SMPS300 link, I might have to give that one a try then. The Pyramid from my experience does not sound as good as a battery or Meanwell SMPS.
Do you have a part number for the Meanwell SMPS you were using? Because of the industry I work in, I have access to a number of decent quality SMPS supplies, including the Meanwell GS90A19-P1M (http://"http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS90A19-P1M/?qs=O2yOKspD61AMoMh0UB3cHg=="). This is a 19V/4.74A/90W supply. I also have some of the HuntKey Universal Laptop Adapter ES Ultra Edition (http://"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2Y90ZH2496&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Laptop+Batteries+%2f+AC+Adapters-_-9SIA2Y90ZH2496&ef_id=KI1NVteBynEAAEU7:20140402150900:s") 19.5V/4.6A/90W supplies. At $54 and $35 these aren't your typical cheap SMPS supplies that you can get on ebay or from Amazon for less than 10 bucks. I like the small size and lack of annoying LED on the Huntkey, but the Meanwell has a very good reputation - that's why we specified it on a recent product I managed. The best thing is, when I told my boss I was building these amps, he handed me 3 of each and told me to knock myself out.
However here in SoCal the power is awful so it could be that the SMPS simply does a better job of regulating the crappy power than the linear. So YMMV.
In my system, the SMPS will be plugged into a Panamax M5300-EX power conditioner. This is an 11-outlet power condition that originally sold for $500 that I picked up at my local Goodwill for $29.99. So, I'm not worried about the quality of the power coming into my SMPS. However, the systems I'm building for my daughter and girlfriend will be plugged directly into the wall. So, I may go with the Meanwell SMPS supplies for their amps.
-
Those Mean Well PSUs look very nice. If you are willing to work with encasing an open frame SMPS, the Mean Well RS-100-xx (100W) or Mean Well RS-150-xx (150W) series SMPS systems are great value. You would have to know how to wire an IEC inlet, fuse, DC power connector and DC power cable, but these power supplies offer lower ripple and tighter regulation than the brick-type supplies you mention. The output can be user-adjusted as well.
My friend has one and initially used it with his YJ TPA3116 blue amp with great results. After I shared with him my experiences in using an Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply, he bought an Astron for himself and hasn't gone back. He told me the Astron provides a blacker background, a larger and deeper sound stage, improved bass response and better dynamic response in comparison to his Mean Well RS-100-12.
The link that Wushuliu shared about Astron power supplies is a great resource. Even though Astron supplies are quite popular among HAM radio enthusiasts, they are not perfect. For what we use them for in powering 90 percent efficient, low power Class D audio amps, we are well within the operating window, but it may be different for HAM radio operators with more demanding requirements.
-
Rich,
Where did you pickup your Astron?
-
I found mine through Craigslist for $20. Even though it's an older unit, it is in mint condition and the previous owner told me he hardly used it as it was a spare unit. You can purchase these new from places like HAM Radio Outlet or Gigaparts. My friend bought his from Gigaparts for $80. If the Ten Tec 937 is identical to the Astron SL-11A, these same retailers carry that model as well.
-
I've used this Meanwell PS for several years with a TK2050. Maybe I should give it a try with the 3116.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75616)
-
Interesting that the Ten Tec 937 bears a striking resemblance to the Astron SL-11A, which really puts out 7A continuous duty. This power supply is still offered by Astron. What other regulated linear power supplies have you and your friend Rex tried with the TBI Millenia? Have you compared the TBI Millenia to the TPA3116D2 amps that have been covered in this thread?
The Astrons looks very similar to the Ten Tec, that should work. Here is one that looks cool, 20 amps with meters. One went for $56 recently on Ebay. It weighs a whopping 18 pounds. :o
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004431
Rex and I have found that the SLA batteries always sounded better than any SMPS we tried, although after Jan's power supply mod on the TBI, the SMPS sounded much better than before. We also tried the $500 King Rex Power Supply and the Ten Tec beat it. If you are a serious listener, try and get one of these linear power supplies. I don't think anything will beat it and it stays in the cheap and cheerful category. The Astron SL-11A usually go for $30-50 used on Ebay. There is one on Ebay now, starting bid is $24.95.
Rex and I have tried several of the TPA amps on Ebay. They sound musical, but the TBI is more dynamic with a much larger soundstage. There is a lot more holographic information also. The TBI will stand up to the Job 225 amp in imaging and soudstage, the Job amp is clearer and more transparent. I am sure you have seen some of the Job amp reviews, that amp is as good as everyone says it is. But my TBI is not going anywhere. This is one I am taking to my grave. :D
-
Those Mean Well PSUs look very nice. If you are willing to work with encasing an open frame SMPS, the Mean Well RS-100-xx (100W) or Mean Well RS-150-xx (150W) series SMPS systems are great value. You would have to know how to wire an IEC inlet, fuse, DC power connector and DC power cable, but these power supplies offer lower ripple and tighter regulation than the brick-type supplies you mention. The output can be user-adjusted as well.
I'm not sure if I want to put that much money into these little amps. In all honesty, I don't think my daughter and girlfriend would notice the difference.
For mine, I'm hoping the combination of running the AC through the Panamax power conditioner and the high quality Meanwell brick will yield good results. Plus, I got the Meanwell bricks for free. So, might as well give them a try.
-
Ok ...you guys finally did it! I have not even read through this
entire thread and yet am convinced even a newbie like me can
build out one of these things :)
Soon I will order two of these from YuanJing. (http://www.yuan-jing.com/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-amplifier-board-50w-50w) Because they seem
the easiest to modify.
Question please... Do you think this amplifier would pair well with
a Promitheus TVC or a Nelson Pass designed B1 buffer preamp?
It would be nice to use a passive preamp and maybe battery power
for the amp?
Lastly ...thanks a lot for furthering my descent into the dark side
of audio Gheeeez! :green:
-
As long as you don't need the extra gain from the preamp stage, either piece will be a very nice buffer between your sources and the TPA3116 amp.
-
Earlier in this thread, matt_garman linked to a thread at diyAudio (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-68.html#post3715550) on how to
change the red TPS3116D2 boards from stereo to a PBTL configuration (ie.
I believe that means 'monoblock' ?). Has anyone done that modification to
their red or blue boards here on AudioCircle? Aside from the increased power,
did you notice any sonic benefits or detriments?
-
Earlier in this thread, matt_garman linked to a thread at diyAudio (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-68.html#post3715550) on how to
change the red TPS3116D2 boards from stereo to a PBTL configuration (ie.
I believe that means 'monoblock' ?). Has anyone done that modification to
their red or blue boards here on AudioCircle? Aside from the increased power,
did you notice any sonic benefits or detriments?
I curious about this too. Thanks for the link.
-
Have you downloaded and read the TI data sheet? There is information there on configuring the amp to operate in PBTL mode. It's probably easier to adjust for higher gain first before going through the hassle of switching to PBTL mode.
-
I personally like changing to 32 or 36db gain on TPAs. They sound better to me. Stock is 26 I believe.
-
Thanks MCM_Fan. A bill of materials would be excellent. I am surprised that no one offers a kit, e.g.
Board
Board Spacers
Screws
Speaker Terminals
Wire
Connector with RCA Jacks
Power Switch
Knob
Case
Feet
Power Supply (optional)
I'll definitely publish a BOM once I've completed my builds and am satisfied with the results.
I received the Context Engineering cases from San Jose Scientific today and my order from Mouser. I'm impressed with the quality of the enclosures, and the fast shipping (the mailman actually attempted delivery yesterday, but I wasn't home to sign for the package). I now have all the caps and inductors to mod the boards, but no boards to mod. I'm waiting on my order from Digikey (switches and pots) and the binding posts and TPA3116 boards from Hong Kong. Of course, I can just attach the speaker wires directly to the board for testing. So, the boards are the gating item at this point. Hopefully, they will be here soon.
-
If you have the dimensions for the components you are mounting on the enclosures, you can begin mounting them now while you're waiting for the amp to arrive. I used a lot of masking tape to cover and protect the metal. On top of the masking tape, I marked the center points of all the holes and center-punched them. I used a cordless drill and 3/32" dia. bit to create starter holes. After that, I used my bench top drill press to drill the mounting holes and deburred them.
When the amp and the rest of the components show up, you can mount them and the final construction will go a lot faster. There are three mounting holes for the YJ blue amp. The front two closest to the input connector are 25mm apart--center to center. The third hole centered between the speaker output terminal blocks is 71mm from the front holes--center to center. I used 4-40 Nylon standoffs, screws and nuts to mount my boards to avoid any possible ground loops between the chassis, connectors and amp.
-
An update on the Ten Tec 937 power supply. Someone in the know pm'ed me, it turns out that Aristron made that for Ten Tec. Aristron linear power supplies can be found everywhere. And after he bought one of these Ten Tecs himself, he is surprised on how much better it sounds over the battery. These work great on both the TBI and all TPA chip amps.
-
An update on the Ten Tec 937 power supply. Someone in the know pm'ed me, it turns out that Aristron made that for Ten Tec. Aristron linear power supplies can be found everywhere. And after he bought one of these Ten Tecs himself, he is surprised on how much better it sounds over the battery. These work great on both the TBI and all TPA chip amps.
Excellent. Thanks Tom.
-
Popping sound on YJ's blue board is irritating :(, but stunning sound :thumb:. I wonder if there are other boards out there that has the same sound quality without the popping or hissing issues.
Anyone tried this board? http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-Power-Amplifier-Board-Support-STEREO-50Wx2-MONO-PBTL-100W-/121294927725?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1c3dbdb76d
-
Regarding popping can you tweak for the snubber circuit for a specific pair of speakers to eliminate it? The YJ site says:
Output LC Filter, C-RC Snubber are used by all axial parts, easy to change it for different speaker load.
-
If you have the dimensions for the components you are mounting on the enclosures, you can begin mounting them now while you're waiting for the amp to arrive. I used a lot of masking tape to cover and protect the metal. On top of the masking tape, I marked the center points of all the holes and center-punched them. I used a cordless drill and 3/32" dia. bit to create starter holes. After that, I used my bench top drill press to drill the mounting holes and deburred them.
When the amp and the rest of the components show up, you can mount them and the final construction will go a lot faster. There are three mounting holes for the YJ blue amp. The front two closest to the input connector are 25mm apart--center to center. The third hole centered between the speaker output terminal blocks is 71mm from the front holes--center to center. I used 4-40 Nylon standoffs, screws and nuts to mount my boards to avoid any possible ground loops between the chassis, connectors and amp.
Wow, thanks for the PCB mounting hole locations. That will definitely give me a head start on my chassis builds. I have a bunch of nylon standoffs around here in various lengths. Do you recall what height you used for yours? I don't recall seeing any photos of the back side of the PCB, but it looks like all the components are all mounted on the top side. If that's true, the standoffs will just need to provide enough clearance, with a little safety margin, to prevent the trimmed through-hole leads from shorting to the case. I plan to make a cardboard mock-up of the PCB while I'm waiting for the real thing to arrive. I even have the Wima input caps (and some of the Radio Shack ones, too) along with the Panasonic power supply caps. So, I can "mount" them on my cardboard PCB to double check the fit. The first two are going into the Context Engineering 3008 enclosures. So, I want to make sure I don't have any clearance issues.
One final question before I start drilling metal (good tip on the masking tape). I know the standard center-to-center distance for binding posts is 0.75", but the data sheet for the ones you recommended doesn't give the mounting hole diameter. I didn't order the ones you recommended. I ordered some from China at a much lower price (and they will probably be the last item to arrive). I did find some specs for other brands of similar binding posts and they all listed the mounting hole diameter as 1/2". Can you conform that is the correct size for the Keystone binding posts you used? Do you know if that is some sort of standard dimension, like the 3/4" center-to-center spacing?
-
I used 3/8" 4-40 Nylon standoffs. You're right that you just need enough clearance so some of the thru-hole mounted components don't contact the bottom if the chassis.
For the Keystone twin binding posts, the distance center-to-center is 3/4" (19mm) as you mentioned. The mounting holes for the connector plates are 1/2" (12.5mm) diameter.
One of my friends bought the Yuan Jing Aluminum chassis and even though the binding post holes resemble many twin binding post mounting patterns, their spacing is not the standard 3/4" and the holes are not 1/2". Fortunately, he had purchased some Mueller binding posts that fit the smaller hole size and do not use the twin binding posts housings. I know some people buy their audio connectors from China, but a lot of Chinese manufacturers do not use materials as advertised. Hopefully, you have a trustworthy source.
-
Here is an Astron 24vdc power supply for sale on Craigslist for $80 in Michigan.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/4386875850.html
-
Here is an Astron 24vdc power supply for sale on Craigslist for $80 in Michigan.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/4386875850.html
That's a nice deal for a good PSU that will yield extra output.
I like to stay with the 12-14V DC range as that gives me plenty of power. On top of that I like the flexibility of using automotive battery power-related products like batteries and stiffener caps (if I ever get around to trying them). A friend of mine just shared with me that old car cell phone chargers with LED power indicators are great for removing the LED and 12V step-down circuit and transplanting them to a TPA3116 amp build to use as a power indicator. That's a neat way if repurposing something that usually gets shoved into a desk drawer or tossed out.
-
Made my first attempt at a wooden knob, and finally installed my Blue/Black stock board on its chassis and into its cabinet. What's ya think..
(http://i.imgur.com/jSs6q6Ol.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eXjZ76hl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fGpVFFHl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/236kr0Yl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/B9HNugRl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1qwGOAol.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5JxOX02l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AbvLgYKl.jpg)
-
Made my first attempt at a wooden knob, and finally installed my Blue/Black stock board on its chassis and into its cabinet. What's ya think..
Pretty cool. How does it sound?
-
Nice! It looks like The Beverly Hillbilles on steroids.....Er, I mean altoids.
-
Pretty cool. How does it sound?
Rich... Funny you ask, both my wife and I hear a completely different sound. The HARSH HIGHS seem to be gone!! Maybe its the warmth of the Mahogany knob :lol: or maybe the very short signal/speaker wiring. However I suspect the ferrite beads I had left on my experimentation board from using the 3110 amp as causing some problems?
It sounds amazing without any mods :thumb: The passive volume control is my way of having a power amp only, an integrated amp or a power amp with the 6N3 3 tube preamp which the top shelf of the case is already designed for. Also, no on board DC switch as I will be switching the AC input of the PS instead. That's not because I don't think there is a 12V switch capable, but because there is no room for one on my 4" wide chassis!
-
Can someone summarize the sound of the red and the blue boards? Is there s consensus as to which sounds better?
-
Very imaginative lacro
-
Can someone summarize the sound of the red and the blue boards? Is there s consensus as to which sounds better?
The blue board has the correct output filter recommended by TI. Go with the blue board.
-
Spent a nice day of listening to the Yuan Jing TPA 3116 amp. Fed by a Sony DVD player and running my Advent 3, I've enjoyed some great jazz and classical cuts today. Really liked Cesar Franck's "Le chasseur maudit" from the French Touch cd by BSO and Charles Munch. Didn't know the littlest Advents had such a big bottom. :lol:
The amp sounded wretched out of the box and needed a couple of Isotek treatments to settle down. Mine also has left and right switched, but that doesn't bother me now that I know to switch RCA jacks. Now its treble is tamed and bass is tight. What a great little system for so little money. I paid $88 for the amp, but shipping was about $32 for USPS delivery. I'm very satisfied with the amp and will use it along side my TBI for my summer months amps. These are real tube savers when you don't want to burn up some $$$ tubes or it's just too damn hot to fire up the BAT VK-60.
Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention and love the DIY amps I've seen in the thread. I didn't want to make my own and Yuan Jing was pretty quick with shipping to Mo.
-
Spent a nice day of listening to the Yuan Jing TPA 3116 amp. Fed by a Sony DVD player and running my Advent 3, I've enjoyed some great jazz and classical cuts today. Really liked Cesar Franck's "Le chasseur maudit" from the French Touch cd by BSO and Charles Munch. Didn't know the littlest Advents had such a big bottom. :lol:
The amp sounded wretched out of the box and needed a couple of Isotek treatments to settle down. Mine also has left and right switched, but that doesn't bother me now that I know to switch RCA jacks. Now its treble is tamed and bass is tight. What a great little system for so little money. I paid $88 for the amp, but shipping was about $32 for USPS delivery. I'm very satisfied with the amp and will use it along side my TBI for my summer months amps. These are real tube savers when you don't want to burn up some $$$ tubes or it's just too damn hot to fire up the BAT VK-60.
Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention and love the DIY amps I've seen in the thread. I didn't want to make my own and Yuan Jing was pretty quick with shipping to Mo.
Holler at Rex and take your two amps over there and hook them to his Ten Tec power supply. You will amazed at the improvement that psu makes.
-
My three YJ blue/black 2.0 boards just arrived in Portland 6 minutes ago! They should be here tomorrow. I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve.
-
Made my first attempt at a wooden knob, and finally installed my Blue/Black stock board on its chassis and into its cabinet. What's ya think..
I like your design and execution -- a nice warm look about it.
Would you mind posting your BOM for materials?
I'm completing a pair of Danny's LGKs and am in need of an amp and this one looks perfect.
-
Received my 2nd Blue/black board today. It came in 10 days :thumb: which is half the time it took from Yuan Jing. I got it from E-bay seller hiamplifier
It included the input cable that YJ charged extra for. Also, it was about $5 less expensive. Buying from an E-Bay seller adds another layer of safety (money back guarantee) that you wont get from China direct sellers like YJ. Another interesting thing is on this board the components and connectors are more square with the board. On the YJ version most of the components are twisted out of alignment. This probably doesn't make a difference, but it looks a lot better with everything in alignment, at least to my eyes.
I hope it sounds good, as one of my boards will probably get modded, not because the stock board sounds bad, just "because it's there"
-
Hey Tom,
Can you pm me Rex's phone number ? I'd love to try my TBI on his power supply.
-
Received my 2nd Blue/black board today. It came in 10 days :thumb: which is half the time it took from Yuan Jing. I got it from E-bay seller hiamplifier
It included the input cable that YJ charged extra for. Also, it was about $5 less expensive. Buying from an E-Bay seller adds another layer of safety (money back guarantee) that you wont get from China direct sellers like YJ. Another interesting thing is on this board the components and connectors are more square with the board. On the YJ version most of the components are twisted out of alignment. This probably doesn't make a difference, but it looks a lot better with everything in alignment, at least to my eyes.
I hope it sounds good, as one of my boards will probably get modded, not because the stock board sounds bad, just "because it's there"
That's the same seller I bought mine from, and mine also arrived today - 10 days after I purchased them. That's pretty good considering I purchased them on a Friday afternoon, which is Saturday Morning HK time. Mine also came with the input cable. It's a simple 3-wire (red, yellow, black) unshielded cable. I paid $15.99 each, plus $13.50 shipping for three boards. I see the seller has now updated his listing. The cable in the new listing is different. It looks like it might be shielded. He has also raised his price from $15.99 to $19.99, plus shipping ($6.50 for one board, $3.50 for each additional board). I wish mine would have included a shielded cable. I'll try twisting the wires and keep them as short as possible. If that doesn't work and it seems like I'm picking up noise on the inputs, I'll make my own shielded cable.
In any case, all three of my boards look great. There are a couple small caps that aren't perfectly square, but over all the quality of the boards look good and the delivery was prompt. So, I can't complain at these prices.
I did get a pleasant surprise when I opened the box. On top was a certificate that said: "Thanks for purchased this Cheap and Cheerful Class-D Amplifier Board". So, it sounds like the seller knows about our Cheap and Cheerful forum here on AudioCircle.
-
I like your design and execution -- a nice warm look about it.
Would you mind posting your BOM for materials?
I'm completing a pair of Danny's LGKs and am in need of an amp and this one looks perfect.
Hi Cody69,
Not sure what BOM you are looking for? The board is the TPA 3116 blue/black board that has been discussed her at length. The only connection that is actually required is the input cable which comes with the board from E-bay seller hiamplifier All the other connections on the board, power input, the speaker outs are screw-down connections.
You just need a power jack that will fit what ever power supply you choose. You will need a pair of RCA connectors for input signal, and speaker terminals. There are dozens of choices for these parts from cheap to boutique. Look back for posts from Rhing. He listed a BOM for his build a little while ago. See post 410.
The volume pot I used (see post 401) was also suggested by Rhing (part # in post). It works great. You can install in in your chassis or as a passive volume control as I did in post 401. You can get all your parts from Mouser, Digikey, Parts Express, or from E-bay/China.
My board is mounted on a sheet of aluminum that I bent. The wooden 2 tier equipment rack was just a wood working project that took a lot of time. Hope that helps. If you need technical info, others will be a better resource. Let us know how the amp works with LGK's
-
I doubt we realize how much business is generated by a thread like this.
-
I doubt we realize how much business is generated by a thread like this.
I'm surprised that Yuan Jing hasn't come out with a compact chassis with their blue amp that would cost far less to ship than their amp with the switch-mode power supply. It's just a matter of time before other Chinese manufacturers like SMSL, Topping, Hlly, Muse, etc. come out with their complete TPA3116-based amps in nice little Aluminum enclosures for less than $50. They're watching these forum threads like a hawk, and working diligently on products of their own. But then, maybe they haven't come out with these types of amps with the hopes of first selling off their glut of T-amps. In the meantime, let's enjoy the DIY fun.
-
Soon I will get another board that will be just for comparing components. I'd like to try some Coilcraft inductors, switch all filter caps to wimas or better and change the boostrap caps on the blue board to the recommended .22uf X7R. I think the YJ has them at .1uf. As well as play with onboard PScap values and types including hybrid electrolytics.
I wish I had the technical know how to really work on these boards. I just know there's another level of performance waiting to be found.
-
Do you think YJ is a manufacturer?
-
I just know there's another level of performance waiting to be found.
Here you go, this will do it for 35 bucks plus shipping. He just might take $30.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astron-Power-Supply-SL11A-/171295708974?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item27e205172e
-
Do you think YJ is a manufacturer?
I believe Yuan Jing, Sure Electronics and SMSL are all manufacturers. Why do you ask?
-
Here you go, this will do it for 35 bucks plus shipping. He just might take $30.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astron-Power-Supply-SL11A-/171295708974?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item27e205172e
Yes, yes, we know Tom :lol:
That's not what I was talking about.
-
I believe Yuan Jing, Sure Electronics and SMSL are all manufacturers. Why do you ask?
On Aliexpress I think you can find name, more or less, Shentzen something.
-
Received my 2nd Blue/black board today. It came in 10 days :thumb: which is half the time it took from Yuan Jing.
Just a quick note: I ordered direct from YJ on April 2 and the board arrived in my mailbox in Wisconsin on the morning of April 7. :)
-
Just a quick note: I ordered direct from YJ on April 2 and the board arrived in my mailbox in Wisconsin on the morning of April 7. :)
5 days that's amazing, must be they are reading this forum :lol: I have had problems with two different China direct sellers. I will only buy from E-bay sellers with a good record. YMMV
-
Powered my second (un-modded) blue board with a 24V PS. WOW!! this thing really sings now.. The chip is getting quite warm, but I don't care, it sounds so much better with the 24V PS. If 24V sounds this good, I wonder what the sweet spot 21V PS sounds like?
-
Powered my second (un-modded) blue board with a 24V PS. WOW!! this thing really sings now.. The chip is getting quite warm, but I don't care, it sounds so much better with the 24V PS. If 24V sounds this good, I wonder what the sweet spot 21V PS sounds like?
How confident are you that your power supply is putting out 24V and no more? I only ask, because some power supplies fluctuate and can peak beyond the limit of the amp's capability. Just know that heat is never a good thing for electronics, especially IC's. If you think about it, these amps are 90 percent efficient, so the quality of the power from the power supply is a large factor in sound quality. As others have mentioned, investing in something better than a brick-type SMPS will be more rewarding.
-
The blue board has the correct output filter recommended by TI. Go with the blue board.
The blue YJ board has 10 uH inductor since it is targetting load impedance of 4 ohm (that's what the 50 W claim is for) . The red YJ board (which I am using) use 22 uH inductors and is more suitable for 8 ohm load. However, I do not think it is that critical since many people that are using boards with 10 uH inductors are driving 8 ohm speakers and I have not heard much complaints. In theory ( you can look up the equation in the TI or STM articles on LC filters for Class D amp), one can change both inductor and capacitor values to tailor the filter characteristics. In practice it is more convenient to keep one component value (e.g. cap value) constant (depending on availability and price) and change the other (the inductor). In this case, higher the load impedance, higher the inductor value (the two articles that I referred to has a more detailed explanation) in order to maintain a similar frequency response (the corner frequency of this low pass filter).
However, it seems that the blue YJ board uses better components and no SMD ( great for modding), therefore it is a better choice (my view). Regardless, these little amps are great!
Regards,
-
Upgraded blue board is now available.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-2-0-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Board-Panasonic-FC-and-Solen-MKP-Cap-/111325383447?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item19eb828b17
-
How confident are you that your power supply is putting out 24V and no more? I only ask, because some power supplies fluctuate and can peak beyond the limit of the amp's capability. Just know that heat is never a good thing for electronics, especially IC's. If you think about it, these amps are 90 percent efficient, so the quality of the power from the power supply is a large factor in sound quality. As others have mentioned, investing in something better than a brick-type SMPS will be more rewarding.
Rich,
I understand your consern. My DMM shows 24.5V entering the amp. Here's the suppliers info: Wide Voltage Range: DC 4.5V ~ 26V
Recommended Voltage: DC 24V / 2 ~ 6A. I know heat is not a good thing which is why I mentioned it. I do intend to invest in a better PS which I hope will not produce as much heat. What I was trying to say was the higher voltage SMPS dramatically changes SQ compared to using a 12V SMPS. However, I am aware that there are better 12V PS's than brick type SMPS. Thanks for your input, it's always appreciated...
-
Upgraded blue board is now available.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPA3116-Class-D-2-0-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Board-Panasonic-FC-and-Solen-MKP-Cap-/111325383447?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item19eb828b17
Interesting!! Correct me if I am wrong, this look like a modded YJ blue board. I think Hiamplifier (the EBAY seller) is following this and/or the diyaudio thread. He actually replaces the caps that most people like to substitute. May be we just spell out what parts we like to change and he will do it for us - great service :thumb:!!
Regards,
-
I am interested in what people will think of these amps. Solen MKP caps aren't on the top of my list of cap choices. He would have been better off with Mundorf MKP or Wima MKP10 caps for a smoother sound. That said, the stock Epcos MKP X2 caps on the YJ board are pretty smooth--smoother than Solens or their related Axon MKP caps.
-
If Hiamplifier is following this thread he should make it easy to purchase any or all of the following:
board
connector cable for the power jack
connector cable for the input rca jack
pair of speaker terminals
standoffs
power switch
case
One supplier with everything you need.
-
"...with a 24V PS. WOW!! this thing really sings now.. The chip is getting quite warm,..."
"Just know that heat is never a good thing for electronics, especially IC's."
How are they securing the aliminum heat sink onto the TPA3116D2 chip?
Are they using an adhesive thermal pad or something else? Although it
may not be the best solution to heat, perhaps replacing the factory heat
sink with a polished copper one that is adhered with Artic 5 and a phyical
clamp might ne good? ...Like you would use with the CPU and heatsink on
a motherboard.
-
If Hiamplifier is following this thread he should make it easy to purchase any or all of the following:
board
connector cable for the power jack
connector cable for the input rca jack
pair of speaker terminals
standoffs
power switch
case
One supplier with everything you need.
?
Or just order the fully assembled and enclosed amplifier direct from YJ...
-
?
Or just order the fully assembled and enclosed amplifier direct from YJ...
But then I would expect a remote too!
-
If Hiamplifier is following this thread he should make it easy to purchase any or all of the following:
board
connector cable for the power jack
connector cable for the input rca jack
pair of speaker terminals
standoffs
power switch
case
One supplier with everything you need.
Once you add in the case (and/or a power supply) the cost of shipping goes WAY up. It's still not a bad deal, just not as cheap and cheerful as DIY. A kit that offered everything BUT the case and power supply would be great - no soldering skills required, and the shipping costs would still be reasonble. You'd still need to build/supply your own case, but if you're reasonably competent with a drill, or better yet, have access to a drill press, it's not too bad.
-
My latest TPA3110 in a case I picked up at Michael's.
Originally it was in a bamboo enclosure I now use for a TPA3116.
In my haste to try out the 3116 I discounted the 3110 but that was a mistake. With the 93db Fostex's the 3110 is remarkable.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97731)
-
I elevated the tiny board so it's good looks are not lost inside.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97733)
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97735)
-
I elevated the tiny board so it's good looks are not lost inside.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97733)
That silver face plate matching the elevated board and High Fidelity lettering looks really cool! Nice attention to detail.
-
Well, I finally got my first TPA3116 blue/black board up and running this morning. This is a modded board that has Radio Shack input caps, Panasonic supply caps and Bourns inductors.
To speed things up, I didn't bother hooking up the on/off switch or volume pot. I set it up in the guest bedroom driving a pair of vintage Dynaco A25 speakers. I was streaming to an Airport Express through a FiiO Taishan D03K DAC.
This amp (and the Airport Express and FiiO DAC) will be a birthday gift for my youngest daughter and will be dedicated to streaming. There will be no other sources used with this amp.
With the amp gain set at the default 26dB, here's what I noticed. Using the volume control on my tablet, 50% volume level would be a comfortable "normal" listening level for a medium size bedroom (intended location), 75% is quite loud and 100% would drive my ex-wife crazy.
And that's driving the 8 ohm, rather inefficient Dynacos (not sure of the exact efficiency rating, but I've seen numbers in the 82 - 86 dB 1W@1m range). She will be using them with a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze B1 speakers (6 ohm, 88 dB 1W@1m) - VERY nice sounding bookshelf speakers BTW. I got them at Goodwill for $9.99 about a year ago and gave them to her (definitely a cheap and cheerful score).
I have the Panasonic potentiometer recommended by lacro and rhing, and the knob for the volume control, but given the application, I am considering making this build knobless. Anyone else running their TPA3116 without a volume control knob (or preamp) and just using the volume control on their tablet/phone/iPod to adjust the volume?
If I hadn't already drilled the hole in the back panel for the toggle switch, I'd also consider leaving that off as well. I could either power it off a power strip with a built-in switch, or just leave it on 24/7. Any drawback to doing so? I assume idle current is quite low, probably lower than a nightlight.
That would be a true minimum build with no knob or switch.
I may leave the front face plate completely blank, or maybe add a small green LED to match the green LED on the Airport Express.
My first impression was favorable. I let it run for about 45 minutes at 85% volume and the heat sink on the TPA3116 wasn't even mildly warm. Good to know, as this will be going in a small case (Context Engineering 3008) with no ventilation. It sounds great so far, but I'm anxious to see how it sounds after burn-in (if it makes any difference). I also listened to it a little using my Sansui TU-919 as a source (it has a front mounted output level control knob). I may build a separate volume control box like lacro, or just wait until I complete the next build, but I really want to hear how this little amp sounds with SACD source material.
Here's a (crappy cell phone) photo of this work in progress...
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kerrythalmann/TPA3116_1_zpsfe4d33ac.jpg~original)
I still need to shorten and twist the leads and mount the board in the case. Should finish that tonight. I'll post a better photo once I do.
-
Nice looking start MCM_Fan. You should be okay with using a tablet as a source. Just be sure the amp is not powered on when you're connecting and disconnecting the tablet. Otherwise, you'll hear ugly ground loops and loud pops. That's usually good enough reason to have a volume pot to protect your speakers.
Here is a photo of my ChengZhi-made 2.0 TPA3116D2 amp compliments of shadowlight--thanks. I used the Leviton binding posts from Lowes that Poultrygeist recommended and added some spare RCA jacks from a Chinese tube amp I had modded a few years ago. The cable and 3-pin connector came with the amp. Anyway, this amp sounds pretty good, maybe as good as the stock YJ blue amp. I have no idea how much this amp costs, or even if it's still available overseas through Aliexpress. I was tempted to put in some new electrolytic caps to replace the Sanyo Oscon-like purple caps and stick in some other input coupling caps, but this unit sounds pretty good as-is, so I'll leave it alone for the time being. I just got a bunch of high-end vinyl from Acoustic Sounds, and it sounds great playing through this amp in my system.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97820)
Not sure what all the extra circuitry is with the two small electrolytic caps and additional resistors, but I believe someone on another forum mentioned it might be a circuit to reduce the turn-on/turn-off thump problem that some have experienced with other TPA3116 amps. I don't hear any turn-on/turn-off thumps with this amp, so maybe it really is working.
Thanks again shadowlight. I delayed building this, but now I'm glad I finally put some parts together.
-
Hi guys, I was considering getting a couple of these 3116 that are bridged to drive a pair of JBL 2226 15" woofers at 97 dB and 8 ohms... what do you think? Seems like it'll work but I wonder if I should just get something with more power. It'll be used in a biamped system with a very clean sounding SET amp and either active or speaker level crossovers, I will experiment with both over time.
What I'm seeing is that the power level of 100W is given at 2 ohms, so I may only get 25W at 8 ohms? If so I may look at some more powerful boards. Any recs for something 100W at 8ohms or more?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121294927725?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
-
Rhing: can you post a picture of lower part of Chengzhi board taken from straight above it? Or could you tell to what pins of tpa chip the added transistors (circuitry) lead?
-
Hi guys, I was considering getting a couple of these 3116 that are bridged to drive a pair of JBL 2226 15" woofers at 97 dB and 8 ohms... what do you think? Seems like it'll work but I wonder if I should just get something with more power. It'll be used in a biamped system with a very clean sounding SET amp and either active or speaker level crossovers, I will experiment with both over time.
What I'm seeing is that the power level of 100W is given at 2 ohms, so I may only get 25W at 8 ohms? If so I may look at some more powerful boards. Any recs for something 100W at 8ohms or more?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121294927725?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
For my 97db woofers in a bi-amped system I need more power than two 3116 can produce. You'd be better off with a 200 watt plate amp.
-
Rhing: can you post a picture of lower part of Chengzhi board taken from straight above it? Or could you tell to what pins of tpa chip the added transistors (circuitry) lead?
I'll take one this evening, but my main camera is my iPhone 5, so I can't guarantee the clearest photo. This amp sounds pretty good in stock form. It's too bad the manufacturer -- ChengZhi or Feixang -- doesn't offer this through eBay. Some people on another forum had purchased these amps from a certain seller on either Aliexpress or Tao Bao, and they were later notified the amp wasn't shipping due to technical problems. I'm not sure if this really was the case, because I didn't hear any problems with this amp. I thought the 470uF DC decoupling caps might not provide enough bass and dynamics, but this amp has plenty of low end. It's not the tightest bass, and it can probably be improved. I'll give this amp more time to settle in.
-
For my 97db woofers in a bi-amped system I need more power than two 3116 can produce. You'd be better off with a 200 watt plate amp.
Thanks, that was what I was thinking...
-
Txs rhing. And here is another I didn't notice before, cheap 2.0 boxed, sure to come to ebay soon I guess:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863 (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863)
-
Txs rhing. And here is another I didn't notice before, cheap 2.0 boxed, sure to come to ebay soon I guess:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863 (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863)
Already there, Amazon too!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SA-36A-TA2020-High-grade-HIFI-Digital-Amplifier-S-/120708040057
http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-SA-36A-Tripath-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00A2QLC0O
-
Txs rhing. And here is another I didn't notice before, cheap 2.0 boxed, sure to come to ebay soon I guess:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863 (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=38444593863)
That looks really interesting. The connector placement is exactly the same as the little TPA3116 I just finished last night, but this is a totally different PCB design, with placement optimized for connectors in those locations. The ONLY thing I could read in the product description is "Texas Instruments TDA3118D2DAP". So, this isn' t an assembled version of the TPA3116 many of us are building/modding in this thread.
A quick check at the TI web site shows that the TPA3118 is lower power (30W) than the TPA3116 that does not require a heat sink. It seems like most people jumped from the even lower power TPA3110 all the way up to the TPA3116. The TPA3118 offers an lower power option for those running fairly efficient speakers.
For now, I'm happy with my DIY TPA3116, but the amp listed at the link above looks like a good option for those who aren't comfortable with the DIY approach.
-
Already there, Amazon too!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-SA-36A-TA2020-High-grade-HIFI-Digital-Amplifier-S-/120708040057
http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-SA-36A-Tripath-Amplifier-Adapter/dp/B00A2QLC0O
Same brand, and similar appearance, but these are both class T Tripath amps, not class D designs based on the TI TPA311* series. Compact, inexpensive assembled class T Tripath amps have been available for several years from several brands (Lepai, being the most ubiquitous) and several sources (Parts Express, eBay, Amazon, etc.). What many here are anxiously waiting for are similar products based on the class D TI TPA311* series.
-
SMSL PRO version of 36A is TPA311x family, 3118's heatsink pad is on pcb side. Under some conditions the heat may limit power, but it is the same chip as 3116 otherwise. My 3116 (3110 also) never gets warm even, so for me 3118=3116 I guess. Powergraphs in TI datasheets are for 3118 and 3116, same graph!!!
SMSL 36A PRO in Taobao link throught an taobao-agent is $35 including shipping, excluded laptopbrick. I wait for ebay because I trust ebay more.
-
I have no idea how much this amp costs, or even if it's still available overseas through Aliexpress.
I paid just under 11 dollars shipped to US and I bought it through buychina.com Taoboa agent.
http://www.buychina.com/products/18668674029 (http://www.buychina.com/products/18668674029)
-
For my 97db woofers in a bi-amped system I need more power than two 3116 can produce. You'd be better off with a 200 watt plate amp.
Perhaps, or a gain change might do it. Theoretically the amp would produce somewhere around 112db with them. The current needed won't be achieved with the stock capacitance however.
-
Hi guys, I was considering getting a couple of these 3116 that are bridged to drive a pair of JBL 2226 15" woofers at 97 dB and 8 ohms... what do you think? Seems like it'll work but I wonder if I should just get something with more power. It'll be used in a biamped system with a very clean sounding SET amp and either active or speaker level crossovers, I will experiment with both over time.
What I'm seeing is that the power level of 100W is given at 2 ohms, so I may only get 25W at 8 ohms? If so I may look at some more powerful boards. Any recs for something 100W at 8ohms or more?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121294927725?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
How about classDaudio?
http://classdaudio.com/amplifier-modules/cda-254-audio-amplifier-125w-x-2-8-ohm-250w-x-2-4-ohm.html
(http://classdaudio.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/d/cda-254-2-amp.jpg)
-
SMSL PRO version of 36A is TPA311x family, 3118's heatsink pad is on pcb side. Under some conditions the heat may limit power, but it is the same chip as 3116 otherwise. My 3116 (3110 also) never gets warm even, so for me 3118=3116 I guess. Powergraphs in TI datasheets are for 3118 and 3116, same graph!!!
SMSL 36A PRO in Taobao link throught an taobao-agent is $35 including shipping, excluded laptopbrick. I wait for ebay because I trust ebay more.
For the SMSL products, I was going by the links the OP posted. The products at those links are both Tripath TA2020 based amps, not TI TPA311* products.
Interesting data on the TPA3118. So, basically the same die as the TPA3116, but packaged and marketed differently. Is there something in the design (either on chip, or on board) that limits the power/current so it doesn't overheat. They claim 30W with no heat sink versus 50W with heat sink for the TPA3116. Of course, I prefer the higher power and heat sink for my application. The input and supply caps both dwarf the heat sink on my boards. So, giong without heat sink wouldn't buy me anything. But, I can see portable, handheld applications where a low profile design without a heat sink would be preferable.
-
Nice looking start MCM_Fan. You should be okay with using a tablet as a source. Just be sure the amp is not powered on when you're connecting and disconnecting the tablet. Otherwise, you'll hear ugly ground loops and loud pops. That's usually good enough reason to have a volume pot to protect your speakers.
So, are people only hearing loud pops when physically connecting/disconnecting sources from the input jacks with the amp powered on? Or, are there loud pops when powering the amp on and/or off. I think I've read of both problems occurring. The former makes sense, and isn't an issue for me as I don't physically connect the tablet to the amps inputs. The tablet (or my phone, or my laptop) streams music wirelessly to the Airport Express. I've tried connecting the Airport Express directly to the amp with a mini-RCA Y-cable and also from the Airport Express through an optical cable to the FiiO D03K DAC and then from the DAC to the amp using the same mini-RCA Y-cable. In both cases, the mini-RCA Y-cable always remains plugged into the amp when it's powered on. Again, no loud pops or clicks, just an occasional very faint "snick" sound - regardless of the volume setting on the tablet.
If the latter, I have also not experienced any loud pops when powering the amp on/off. I've tried turning the amp on/off by plugging/unplugging the wall outlet, plugging/unplugging at the amp and turning the switch on/off and hear absolutely no loud pops. Usually, I don't hear anything, but if I do, it's a very faint "snick" like sound that I probably wouldn't even notice if I wasn't specifically listening for something.
So, are others actually hearing a loud pop through their speakers when turning the amp on/off. If so, how are you turning your amp on/off? Are you using a switch, plugging/unplugging the AC input of your supply, using a power strip with a switch to supply AC power to the brick, or plugging/unplugging the DC at the amp?
-
So, are people only hearing loud pops when physically connecting/disconnecting sources from the input jacks with the amp powered on?
I don't think I tried that, but can't remember now...
Or, are there loud pops when powering the amp on and/or off.
I definitely have that on my blue YJ board if the inputs aren't connected or the inputs are connected but the source device is powered off. The pops are loud and scary, as I can see my woofers moving substantially.
So, are others actually hearing a loud pop through their speakers when turning the amp on/off. If so, how are you turning your amp on/off? Are you using a switch, plugging/unplugging the AC input of your supply, using a power strip with a switch to supply AC power to the brick, or plugging/unplugging the DC at the amp?
I have a smart power strip (http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Energy-Saving-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B000P1QJXQ/), where one plugged in device is the "master". When the master is turned on, all the other outlets ("slaves") on the strip turn on. When the master is off, all the slaves are off.
So my preamp acts as the master, and the tpa3116 is the slave. This ensures that the amp only turns on when the input source is on. Turning off, I seem to just get lucky... it appears that the amp shuts down exactly when the preamp shuts down (i.e. if there was a delay, as in, pre-amp off, delay, power-amp off, I would expect a pop).
The other solution I had in mind was to just leave the amp on at all times, since it uses so little power when not in use (very little when in use as well). But if I turn my preamp off, but leave the amp on, then I get an audible "hiss" coming through the speakers. Haven't found a solution for that yet.
-
matt, you might want to leave it on all the time, many digital devices take a while to sound good after being powered on... something to experiment with at least.
rajacat, thanks for the link, I think something like that would be a better choice... those woofers are capable of WAY over 112 dB, I want peaks in the 120 dB range! :icon_twisted:
-
Thanks, that was what I was thinking...
The Class D Yung plate amps from PE are hard to beat for driving woofers in a bi-amnped system.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75576)
-
A friend who has the green board 3116 says it has a mute circuit which silences the "thump ".
-
In case you haven't seen this, here's some more eye-candy tpa311x builds: Flea Watt (http://www.fleawatt.blogspot.com/).
Changing gears a little, just out of curiosity: for those of you using these amps, what does your complete system look like?
I'll start.
Living Room system:
Linux HTPC -> optical SPDIF -> Emotiva XDA-1 -> power amp -> Salk Songtowers
Power amp here is either Class D Audio SDS-470 or the TPA3116 build I posted a few days ago. This used to be my main system for listening, but we moved to a new house recently. The new house seems to have bad acoustics, and it has in-ceiling speakers that, despite lower sound quality, the wife and kids prefer for listening to music. So opportunities for critical music listening on this system are so rare as to be non-existent. All the components except the speakers qualify as C&C.
Office desktop/nearfield system:
Windows PC -> optical SPDIF -> Cambridge Audio DACMagic (original) -> tpa3110 -> Overnight Sensations DIY speakers
I posted pics of my tpa3110 build a few pages back. Between work and family I still don't have a lot of time, but this has become my "go to" system for critical listening. All C&C components. Really like the sound, but think there's room for improvement. I'm afraid I'd have to get out of C&C territory to get a marked improvement on the DAC, so I'm thinking about upgrading the speakers. Thinking really hard about a Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 based system (likely a DIY flat-pack build from Planet10).
-
I have this amp (YJ blue) in my 2-channel system. All music is CD quality or Hi-Res FLAC, stored on an unRAID NAS. My source is a 2009 MacBook Pro running JRiver Media Center with remote control on my iPad Mini. Currently using my MBP's internal DAC, but will eventually pick up a raw ODAC board and insert it into my amp chassis and connect it directly to the amp's inputs with just an inch or so of wire. Speakers are '83 Klipsch Cornwalls with newly refreshed B-2 crossovers in a battery biased configuration. Everything is setup near field @6ft. That's it.. no preamps, no unnecessary sources, zero complication. Using a vintage HAM 13v/7A linear power supply.
This combination has made for a VERY revealing system with good balance across the frequency spectrum. The only thing that's really lacking is a vast soundstage, but that's because I have it setup in near field. It does have great depth, the musicians just sound a bit squished together at times. Dead silent at the listening position, and I can hit 105dB with just a few watts. Tons of bass, super clear mids and highs. I'm a happy camper and have very little money invested in the setup.
-
Having been very impressed with the 3116 red board ($13.99) I decided to splurge and buy the complete/encased 3116 black board ($88). Just took delivery but won't get a chance to hear it for a few days. The thing is much bigger and heavier than I would have thought. Build quality looks good. :thumb:
-
I definitely have that on my blue YJ board if the inputs aren't connected or the inputs are connected but the source device is powered off. The pops are loud and scary, as I can see my woofers moving substantially.
I don't think I've actually tried this - and now I don't think I want to! I just powered on my first YJ 2.0 blue/black board yesterday morning (open frame) and installed it in the case last night. Most of the listening I've done so far, as previously mentioned, has been streaming through an Airport Express (with, and without, FiiO D03K DAC). The only other source I've tried is a Sansui TU-919 tuner, but that one was also always powered on when turning the amp on/off.
Two of the three TPA3116 amps I'm building will be gifts and used exclusively for streaming via Airport Express. So, those should always have something connected to the inputs and can just be left on at all times.
The third, will be for my bedroom system. That one will be more elaborate as I plan to try one of the 6N3 tube preamps and add a 3 or 4 input selector so I can attach multiple sources (Magnum Dynalab FT101A FM tuner, Sony DVP-NS3100ES SACD player and Airport Express through FiiO D03K DAC for streaming). I may even add a remote control to that one.
I have a smart power strip (http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Energy-Saving-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B000P1QJXQ/), where one plugged in device is the "master". When the master is turned on, all the other outlets ("slaves") on the strip turn on. When the master is off, all the slaves are off.
In this system, I have a Panamax M5300-EX 11-outlet power conditioner (http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-Components/M5300-EX.php) that provides power sequencing, both at power on and power off. It powers up the sources first and lets them stabilize before powering up the amp and subwoofer. When shutting down, it powers the amp and sub off first, and then shuts down the sources. That way, the sources are always powered on and stable when turning the amp on and off. It also has some always on outlets. I use one of these for the Airport Express. That way, it's always on and I don't have to wait for it to boot up and connect to the wireless network every time I turn my stereo on. I never knew how much I needed one of these until I found one at my local Goodwill!
-
A friend who has the green board 3116 says it has a mute circuit which silences the "thump ".
Would you happen to know the exact module? I have been looking for one. Thanks!
-
Would you happen to know the exact module? I have been looking for one. Thanks!
Don't see any today on ebay ( maybe sold out ) but they're easy to spot as they're bright green with a large heat sink.
-
Don't see any today on ebay ( maybe sold out ) but they're easy to spot as they're bright green with a large heat sink.
The eBay seller is Audiobah, and for some reason he stopped selling these boards after selling just 2. In my opinion this board was the best of all available. I built several "blue boards" and this "green board" which I kept for myself.
All of these boards require upgrading of PS decoupling capacitors. I also recommend bypassing them with small wima caps underneath the board - it smooths out the high frequency response and reduces that digital glare.
I must say that when my 3116 is driven by my Aikido tube pre I get the impression that it sounds almost as good as my 2a3 monos, with better bass.
When 3116 is fronted with a simple Alps volume pot the sound becomes strident and flat, stepped attenuator sounds somewhat better. I just can't get past the idle noise issue on my 95db speakers, so it may never make it from "backup" amp into the main rack.
For the price I don't think I could get anything better than this.
-
i get a very slight pop when I plug/unplug the amp, but nothing close to what I would consider a woofer killing thump. odd.
could it be because my power supply is only 13v/7A?
-
i get a very slight pop when I plug/unplug the amp, but nothing close to what I would consider a woofer killing thump. odd.
could it be because my power supply is only 13v/7A?
The "thump" is usually caused by power supply capacitors being charged on the power up, the larger the caps - the bigger the thump. Most of us modify those boards by replacing PS decoupling capacitors with larger ones, and that makes the thump problem worse. I suppose lower voltages help to mediate this effect. There is no "soft start" circuitry on these evaluation boards (that's what they really are, 3116 eval boards copied from TI) so no protection from large DC offset caused by initial current inrush.
I purchased several inexpensive "speaker protection" modules on eBay that will be installed on my next "blue board" builds.
I would speculate that Audiobah was selling 3116 OEM boards on eBay (they seem to be a lot more complicated with bunch of SMD components, including transistors, on-board, and good quality output coils) and got "nabbed" :o
-
Rhing: can you post a picture of lower part of Chengzhi board taken from straight above it? Or could you tell to what pins of tpa chip the added transistors (circuitry) lead?
This is about as good a photo as I could get with my iPhone. As for what pins are connected to the added circuitry, I cannot tell unless I pull the amp off the standoffs and check with my DMM. That is not going to happen soon, because I am enjoying the amp in my system right now.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97864)
-
Chengzhi did some noise prevention, resistors near input, a good thing most others neglected. Also seems the transitor on the right is mute circuit like the green audiobah. But 2 transistors on the left side, is he doing something with sdz chip-pin2 to alter startup time (and switch off time) maybe??? And what about the 2 added larger lytics, mmm... I did buy this pcb from alieexpress, but only cost money and never got pcb, alieexpress/alibaba ignore complaints, never respond, they did do a partial refund (they advertise full refund) but transfered the money to my bankaccount and guess what....transfer cost I had to pay were equal to the partial refund...lesson learnt, no more buying from alieexpress for me :D
-
I paid just under 11 dollars shipped to US and I bought it through buychina.com Taoboa agent.
http://www.buychina.com/products/18668674029 (http://www.buychina.com/products/18668674029)
Must have been a while ago. It's showing as unavailable and the few items I clicked on have a insurance plus shipping plus fee of $1.65 + $6.30=$7.95. Still a bargain at $16.43 delivered if/when it becomes available.
-
Chengzhi did some noise prevention, resistors near input, a good thing most others neglected. Also seems the transitor on the right is mute circuit like the green audiobah. But 2 transistors on the left side, is he doing something with sdz chip-pin2 to alter startup time (and switch off time) maybe??? And what about the 2 added larger lytics, mmm... I did buy this pcb from alieexpress, but only cost money and never got pcb, alieexpress/alibaba ignore complaints, never respond, they did do a partial refund (they advertise full refund) but transfered the money to my bankaccount and guess what....transfer cost I had to pay were equal to the partial refund...lesson learnt, no more buying from alieexpress for me :D
You must be correct, because this amp has the least noise (faintest hiss) of the TPA311x amps I have. There is no turn-on/turn-off pop using the power switch on my Astron linear power supply or when I have the power supply powered on and I plug and unplug the DC power connector on the amp. I've never experienced the turn-on thump with any if my amps, and the turn-off thump is a very faint thump (really a tick) that does not cause my woofers to move. I always have my source (line stage preamp) plugged into the amp. The power amp is the last to be powered on and the first to be powered off. I don't use any line conditioners or surge protectors. I have a Wire Mold 9-outlet power strip that I bought years again when I had Naim gear.
-
The eBay seller is Audiobah, and for some reason he stopped selling these boards after selling just 2. In my opinion this board was the best of all available. I built several "blue boards" and this "green board" which I kept for myself.
All of these boards require upgrading of PS decoupling capacitors. I also recommend bypassing them with small wima caps underneath the board - it smooths out the high frequency response and reduces that digital glare.
I must say that when my 3116 is driven by my Aikido tube pre I get the impression that it sounds almost as good as my 2a3 monos, with better bass.
When 3116 is fronted with a simple Alps volume pot the sound becomes strident and flat, stepped attenuator sounds somewhat better. I just can't get past the idle noise issue on my 95db speakers, so it may never make it from "backup" amp into the main rack.
For the price I don't think I could get anything better than this.
removing your bypass wima's would be first advice, for right ch audiobah c5 and c12 are the onboard double bypasses, which you triple bypass by wima's, effectively lowering the frequency which they can filter powersupply. some really smart audiodesigners might even say that TI's original already double bypass is more fashionable then effective... regarding iddle noise: check gain if you didn't already, with preamp one 5.6k resistor should be all that is needed, 16/12/6dB lower iddle noise could be in there???
-
Has anyone looked at the audiobah boards and figured out how to run them in monobloc mode? I have 2 sitting here and hoping to use it as mono bloc mode or even turn the two Chengzhi boards into monobloc.
-
Has anyone looked at the audiobah boards and figured out how to run them in monobloc mode? I have 2 sitting here and hoping to use it as mono bloc mode or even turn the two Chengzhi boards into monobloc.
Chengzhi needs attention maybe??? what is all the extra circuit, what happens if you short things to earth in that extra circuit. audiobah is like TI evm board I think so connect both left inputs to ground (left=right side of chip) and use Rch+ and Lch- output, maybe also connect Rch- to Rch+ and same for Lch, datasheet TI:
MONO MODE (PBTL)
The TPA31xxD2 family can be connected in MONO mode enabling up to 100W output power. This is done by:
• Connect INPL and INNL directly to Ground (without capacitors) this sets the device in Mono mode during
power up.
• Connect OUTPR and OUTNR together for the positive speaker terminal and OUTNL and OUTPL together for
the negative terminal
• Analog input signal is applied to INPR and INNR
But again, many Chinese label Rch input as left channel, so look to chip: leftside chip is Rchannel both input and output sides:)
-
Chengzhi did some noise prevention, resistors near input, a good thing most others neglected. Also seems the transitor on the right is mute circuit like the green audiobah. But 2 transistors on the left side, is he doing something with sdz chip-pin2 to alter startup time (and switch off time) maybe??? And what about the 2 added larger lytics, mmm... I did buy this pcb from alieexpress, but only cost money and never got pcb, alieexpress/alibaba ignore complaints, never respond, they did do a partial refund (they advertise full refund) but transfered the money to my bankaccount and guess what....transfer cost I had to pay were equal to the partial refund...lesson learnt, no more buying from alieexpress for me :D
Ordered this board http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-TPA3116-Class-D-digital-amplifier-50W-50-W-with-Silent-Sleep-Design/1586764360.html in search of a module that does not make popping sound when turned off (currently has blue board). I have been using SMPS 19V power supply. Poultygeist indicated that a green board may have the silent feature so I searched at Aliexpress. This is my first time to order from Aliexpress, but if I have read your post prior to the order, I may not have pulled the trigger. I do not like dealing with scrupulous merchant. I wonder if others have the same exprerience. I hope to receive the module in 4 weeks.
-
Ordered this board http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-TPA3116-Class-D-digital-amplifier-50W-50-W-with-Silent-Sleep-Design/1586764360.html in search of a module that does not make popping sound when turned off (currently has blue board). I have been using SMPS 19V power supply. Poultygeist indicated that a green board may have the silent feature so I searched at Aliexpress. This is my first time to order from Aliexpress, but if I have read your post prior to the order, I may not have pulled the trigger. I do not like dealing with scrupulous merchant. I wonder if others have the same exprerience. I hope to receive the module in 4 weeks.
It looks like this board doesn't have a heat sink which I thought was required on the 50W boards. Also, the specs show 36db gain. Dealing with any of these foreign direct suppliers is a gamble. Even the most well known suppliers are not much help when you have a problem.
-
This is another green board, layout could be better then audiobah's, but doesn't have transistor muting circuit like audiobah board. It is another seller, so not to worry too much. If seller is ok you don't ever need Aliexpress for anything...
-
It looks like this board doesn't have a heat sink which I thought was required on the 50W boards. Also, the specs show 36db gain. Dealing with any of these foreign direct suppliers is a gamble. Even the most well known suppliers are not much help when you have a problem.
I am a technical person per se, how does the 36db gain mean to the sound and reliability of the board? If heat sink is required on this board, is it something I can do myself? I think a special glue is needed to attach the heat sink.
To be fair with foreign merchants, I bought two blue boards from hiamplifier on ebay, and I am very happy with his service. The boards came less than two weeks from the order. I think the guy running the store is Franky. When I asked for a schematic, he provided one for me. Unfortunately, he does not have the "silent" board.
-
This is another green board, layout could be better then audiobah's, but doesn't have transistor muting circuit like audiobah board. It is another seller, so not to worry too much. If seller is ok you don't ever need Aliexpress for anything...
If I understood the product description, it has a silent on/off feature, and transient voltage may be the culprit. But then it could be BS. I may be out of $14!
-
The pop seems to be timing issue, so could be popfree by partselection? You have pop with hiamplifyer boards in PBTL ? In BTL I had, in PBTL I haven't noticed a pop....
-
The pop seems to be timing issue, so could be popfree by partselection? You have pop with hiamplifyer boards in PBTL ? In BTL I had, in PBTL I haven't noticed a pop....
The blue board I have is stock, therefore, BTL. I am hoping the green board will solve the popping problem. Also, just purchase Meanwell RS 150-24 SMPS, and hoping this may solve the issue--but probably not.
You mentioned from your previous post as to how make the blue board a mono amp. The procedure you described was the same from Class D audio manual when I built my 6-channel amp, if I recall correctly. I imagine this procedure can be done on almost any board?
I would like to create mono block of the blue board using the Meanwell power supply I just mentioned. It has two rails and rated for 6 amp. Would you mind posting a pic of your build? Just want to make sure I will do it correctly.
Anybody has any experience on using this particular power supply on two boards? Will 6 amp be enough?
Feedback will be appreciated!
-
Sorry I misread your earlier post, hiamplifier sells blue/black boards too, I have the little board, his own design, yep ebay seller with own design lol. My board came without any parts so I don't have full pcb, just parts in plus and minus towards speakers. So I do not connect output -Rch to +Rch nor -Lc to +Lch. I also do not have parts in Lch input, so mine pcb's are different then. Most important is if you want PBTL, is that tpa3116chip knows upon power on startup, meaning from chipside the Lch input pins,2, should be shorted to gnd no caps should be connected, again Lch inputs are rightside of tpachip, to avoid chinese mistake LOL Speakers connected to output +Rch and -Lch will give full power then. Connecting/shorting outputs/parts in output, changes output filter for new situation, could be needed if protectioncircuit spoils normal operation, but most of times you won't notice when efficiency drops to 50% from 95%, SQ could be affected, it seems either way you get too much high freq when things are very wrong in outputfilter.
-
Since I've made the prototype ChengZhi TPA3116 amp, I've noticed that the ChengZhi sounds smoother, more relaxed and more spacious than my slightly modified Yuan Jing blue amp. The only thing I did with the YJ was add a pair of 1,500uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytics next to the TPA chip. Last weekend, I was jamming to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" at really loud volumes using my YJ amp. On some of the more complex passages in "Time" and "Money," the music started to distort and sound really harsh. It wasn't musical at all, and I was a bit perplexed why I never heard this before, but this was the first time that I probably pushed over 100dB SPL in my man cave.
I've read where using too much capacitance close to the amp chip could be detrimental and it bugged me that the ChengZhi sounded so musical, so I decided to experiment with my Yuan Jing blue amp and replace the 1,500uF caps with a pair of 470uF / 35V Panasonic FM caps. The ChengZhi amp has a pair of 470uF / 25V caps that look like Sanyo Oscon caps, but they're some Chinese off brand. I also added a 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM on the power supply input terminal blocks. Just like the ChengZhi, the sound was smoother, more relaxed with a larger, deeper soundstage. I ended up spinning a bunch of new vinyl that I recently purchased and enjoyed the music since I had today off from work.
I'm not sure if what I heard was what some describe as ringing. The Texas Instruments TPA3116D2 datasheet shows a pair of 220uF caps for DC decoupling.
-
Since I've made the prototype ChengZhi TPA3116 amp, I've noticed that the ChengZhi sounds smoother, more relaxed and more spacious than my slightly modified Yuan Jing blue amp. The only thing I did with the YJ was add a pair of 1,500uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytics next to the TPA chip. Last weekend, I was jamming to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" at really loud volumes using my YJ amp. On some of the more complex passages in "Time" and "Money," the music started to distort and sound really harsh. It wasn't musical at all, and I was a bit perplexed why I never heard this before, but this was the first time that I probably pushed over 100dB SPL in my man cave.
I've read where using too much capacitance close to the amp chip could be detrimental and it bugged me that the ChengZhi sounded so musical, so I decided to experiment with my Yuan Jing blue amp and replace the 1,500uF caps with a pair of 470uF / 35V Panasonic FM caps. The ChengZhi amp has a pair of 470uF / 25V caps that look like Sanyo Oscon caps, but they're some Chinese off brand. I also added a 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM on the power supply input terminal blocks. Just like the ChengZhi, the sound was smoother, more relaxed with a larger, deeper soundstage. I ended up spinning a bunch of new vinyl that I recently purchased and enjoyed the music since I had today off from work.
I'm not sure if what I heard was what some describe as ringing. The Texas Instruments TPA3116D2 datasheet shows a pair of 220uF caps for DC decoupling.
Interesting. May be worth trying out the lower value hybrid electrolytics (similar to organic polymer I believe) Saturnus mentioned in the diyaudio thread. I'll be getting some soon along with coilcraft inductors and basically replacing the board parts completely with a spare blue board for trying out different stuff.
sorry haven't responded to ur pm been super busy.
-
Ordered this board http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-TPA3116-Class-D-digital-amplifier-50W-50-W-with-Silent-Sleep-Design/1586764360.html in search of a module that does not make popping sound when turned off (currently has blue board). I have been using SMPS 19V power supply. Poultygeist indicated that a green board may have the silent feature so I searched at Aliexpress. This is my first time to order from Aliexpress, but if I have read your post prior to the order, I may not have pulled the trigger. I do not like dealing with scrupulous merchant. I wonder if others have the same exprerience. I hope to receive the module in 4 weeks.
This seems to be a nice board. One guy on the diyaudio forum is using two of these with his minidsp and like them. This board is designed and made by ybdz (http;//ybdz.taobao.com). You can actually buy them from the "original designer at TB". However, the reseller that you are buying from is offering free shipping which is an excellent deal. Mind you, the shipping charge to send the board to you could cost the vendor the same as he paid for the board!! For your information, the price at TB is about 7-8 US$. Personally, I always prefer to buy from the "original designer/manufacture" of the product instead of a reseller since they are relatively more willing to support the product regarding questions and queries of the item. Obviously, they know more about the item than a reseller. Unfortunately, you have to communicate with them in Chinese. Before I forget, for this board, the inductors used in the output filter is 22 uH, which is more catered towards 8 ohm speakers (does not mean that it will not work with 4-6 ohm speakers).
The "extra" white 3-pin input next to the signal input is for muting and standby purposes and needed to be connected to another unit to be functional, I think.
I think you will like this board.
Regards,
-
Sorry I misread your earlier post, hiamplifier sells blue/black boards too, I have the little board, his own design, yep ebay seller with own design lol. My board came without any parts so I don't have full pcb, just parts in plus and minus towards speakers. So I do not connect output -Rch to +Rch nor -Lc to +Lch. I also do not have parts in Lch input, so mine pcb's are different then. Most important is if you want PBTL, is that tpa3116chip knows upon power on startup, meaning from chipside the Lch input pins,2, should be shorted to gnd no caps should be connected, again Lch inputs are rightside of tpachip, to avoid chinese mistake LOL Speakers connected to output +Rch and -Lch will give full power then. Connecting/shorting outputs/parts in output, changes output filter for new situation, could be needed if protectioncircuit spoils normal operation, but most of times you won't notice when efficiency drops to 50% from 95%, SQ could be affected, it seems either way you get too much high freq when things are very wrong in outputfilter.
Hiamplifier seems to be quite knowledgeable on audio electronics. I think he designed/built/modified all the items that he sells on its Ebay shop. He posts once in a blue moon on diyforum. I am thinking of ordering the 3116 board that he designed and sells as a kit (on ebay) so I do not have to do any desoldering. The parts that come with the kit seems decent too. Of course, the kit will cost more than the YJ blue/black board. I am sure that one can get more detailed information on the board from Hiamplifier if run into trouble, if you buy from him. As a disclaimer, I do not know him and has not bought from him before. However, I have a few email exchanges with him on 3116 board and he was helpful and friendly.
-
Hiamplifier seems to be quite knowledgeable on audio electronics. I think he designed/built/modified all the items that he sells on its Ebay shop. He posts once in a blue moon on diyforum. I am thinking of ordering the 3116 board that he designed and sells as a kit (on ebay) so I do not have to do any desoldering. The parts that come with the kit seems decent too. Of course, the kit will cost more than the YJ blue/black board. I am sure that one can get more detailed information on the board from Hiamplifier if run into trouble, if you buy from him. As a disclaimer, I do not know him and has not bought from him before. However, I have a few email exchanges with him on 3116 board and he was helpful and friendly.
Yes for a high quality stock board his look like maybe the best option. Especially for monoblocks.
-
Here's my 3116 setup. I chose Preamp-Amp setup for more flexibility. Preamplifier has 2 switchable inputs, volume is controlled by 128-step relay attenuator, remote controls volume and on/off operation of preamp and amplifier via trigger cable. The amplifier is built on Audiobah "green" board with some modifications. It sounds glorious and looks cute. I even equipped the volume knob with led-lightpipe indicator for better position visibility. Notice how it sits snug between Aikido tube preamp and Wright 2a3 mono.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97986)
-
It looks like this board doesn't have a heat sink which I thought was required on the 50W boards. Also, the specs show 36db gain. Dealing with any of these foreign direct suppliers is a gamble. Even the most well known suppliers are not much help when you have a problem.
Hmmm, on the ybdz's TB store, the price of the amp includes a separate heat sink. Many people commented that the chip never really gets that warm under regular use
Regards,
-
Many people commented that the chip never really gets that warm under regular use
Regards,
Well... Mine doesn't get warm either with a 12V PS. However, with the boards manufacturer recommended 24V PS the heatsink that came on the blue boards chip does get hot. I believe the sweet spot is 21V. Not sure if a 21V PS will keep chip cooler. Do the 19V laptop PS's keep the chip cool?
-
I also noticed Hiamplifier added a gain resistorkit to blueboard and changed caps in outputfilter.
-
"MONO MODE (PBTL)
The TPA31xxD2 family can be connected in MONO mode enabling up
to 100W output power. This is done by:
• Connect INPL and INNL directly to Ground (without capacitors) this
sets the device in Mono mode during power up."
I have seen this stated in the Texas Instrument's info sheet for the TPA31xxD2
chip family as well. Since I have very little electronics knowledge ...could someone
please clarify 'which' ground it is that the left channel + & - inputs are connected to?
Where is the ground that you would physically connect to? Thanks.
-
Here's my 3116 setup. I chose Preamp-Amp setup for more flexibility. Preamplifier has 2 switchable inputs, volume is controlled by 128-step relay attenuator, remote controls volume and on/off operation of preamp and amplifier via trigger cable. The amplifier is built on Audiobah "green" board with some modifications. It sounds glorious and looks cute. I even equipped the volume knob with led-lightpipe indicator for better position visibility. Notice how it sits snug between Aikido tube preamp and Wright 2a3 mono.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97986)
That's a really nice setup. Where did you get the chasis for the amp and preamp? Can you elaborate on what kind of modifications you have done on the Audiobah green board and what is the PSU voltage? I have two coming my way and will be here soon. Would like to know what sort of improvements and mods that have been done on the board. Thanks!
Regards,
-
"MONO MODE (PBTL)
The TPA31xxD2 family can be connected in MONO mode enabling up
to 100W output power. This is done by:
• Connect INPL and INNL directly to Ground (without capacitors) this
sets the device in Mono mode during power up."
I have seen this stated in the Texas Instrument's info sheet for the TPA31xxD2
chip family as well. Since I have very little electronics knowledge ...could someone
please clarify 'which' ground it is that the left channel + & - inputs are connected to?
Where is the ground that you would physically connect to? Thanks.
Personally, I do not find it easy to convert the board from BTL to PBTL (stereo to mono). Unless you have a PCB that is an exact copy of the TI evaluation board. Unfortunately, every manufacturer of the available 3116 boards designs their board a bit differently to suit their need. To figure out which point on the PCB is which point on the schematic, one has to examine the PCB and follow the traces carefully, using the components as a guide. It is not technically difficult, just tedious. The main reason that I bought the "Audiobah" boards is because they have marked the the spots on their PCB that needed to be linked when converting the board to mono.
Regards,
-
Has anyone looked at the audiobah boards and figured out how to run them in monobloc mode? I have 2 sitting here and hoping to use it as mono bloc mode or even turn the two Chengzhi boards into monobloc.
These should help. The picture showing the bottom of the PCB indicated 5 marked spots, you just link them together. The picture that displays the top side of the board indicated that in mono mode, signal input is L and ground only (leave the R pin alone). For output, just follow the picture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97988)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97989)
As a disclaimer, these are information that I obtained from the seller and I have not tried it yet (the boards are on their way). So please do not held me responsible for any "unfortunate" events should any arise.
Regards,
-
This seems to be a nice board. One guy on the diyaudio forum is using two of these with his minidsp and like them. This board is designed and made by ybdz (http;//ybdz.taobao.com). You can actually buy them from the "original designer at TB". However, the reseller that you are buying from is offering free shipping which is an excellent deal. Mind you, the shipping charge to send the board to you could cost the vendor the same as he paid for the board!! For your information, the price at TB is about 7-8 US$. Personally, I always prefer to buy from the "original designer/manufacture" of the product instead of a reseller since they are relatively more willing to support the product regarding questions and queries of the item. Obviously, they know more about the item than a reseller. Unfortunately, you have to communicate with them in Chinese. Before I forget, for this board, the inductors used in the output filter is 22 uH, which is more catered towards 8 ohm speakers (does not mean that it will not work with 4-6 ohm speakers).
The "extra" white 3-pin input next to the signal input is for muting and standby purposes and needed to be connected to another unit to be functional, I think.
I think you will like this board.
Regards,
Thanks for the comment! :thumb: Glad to hear that someone had tried and liked it.
I guess that is why the cost to me is about $14, seller already built in the charge for shipping. I am in California and postal cost is about $7.
If it indeed does not make the popping/clicking sound and like the SQ, I would like to build a mono. I wonder if the guy from the DIY forum has set it up as mono. Would you happen to know how?
Thanks again!
-
Well... Mine doesn't get warm either with a 12V PS. However, with the boards manufacturer recommended 24V PS the heatsink that came on the blue boards chip does get hot. I believe the sweet spot is 21V. Not sure if a 21V PS will keep chip cooler. Do the 19V laptop PS's keep the chip cool?
The 19V brick I am using does not make the heatsink hot. I can touch it for a very long time and there is barely heat.
It looks like I need to install a heatsink for the board I ordered, if not built in. Hoping to get the heatsink and glue with it. I have not done gluing a heatsink on a chip.
-
Thanks for the comment! :thumb: Glad to hear that someone had tried and liked it.
I guess that is why the cost to me is about $14, seller already built in the charge for shipping. I am in California and postal cost is about $7.
If it indeed does not make the popping/clicking sound and like the SQ, I would like to build a mono. I wonder if the guy from the DIY forum has set it up as mono. Would you happen to know how?
Thanks again!
I do not think he used it in mono mode. He mentioned that he has very efficient speakers so no need for more power :lol:
Regards,
-
I also noticed Hiamplifier added a gain resistorkit to blueboard and changed caps in outputfilter.
Would someone please explain what determines the ideal gain for different input signal sources and speakers?
Here's the resistor pack from Hiamplifier being supplied with his blue board to change gain:
Axial Resistors x 1 Pack [For Master Mode Gain and Input impedance: 20dB/60KΩ, 26dB/30KΩ,32dB/15KΩ, 36dB/9KΩ)]
Thanks...
Lacro
-
re:lacro (what electrolytes does new (hiamp)blueboard pcb have?)
Do you feel you only use first part of your volumecontrol, does soundlevel become loud very quickly? If you lower gain you will have a little more range in your volumecontrol.
Do you feel you mostly use toppart of your volumecontrol? Increasing gain might give you more range in your volume control.
Something like that, but...
Do you feel hiss/hum is a little too loud, lower gain will lower hiss/hum
Do you feel music is little dull, higher gain might give you a little more (a)live sensation
I basicly used it for hiss/hum control and still use first part of volumecontrol, high output source/preamp, I use one 5.6K resistor. Input impedance is higher with lower gain, which means without changing inputcaps you get the effect of larger inputcaps, little more bass (and actually higher in frequency then you might expect). The inputcaps and inputimpedance(gain) form a shallow bassfilter. In some situation you might not notice this at all, but you might feel it is actually a huge difference, depending on room/speakers/music. So if you have a set of gainresistors you could find out if increasing value of inputcaps is something to consider, just by lowering gainsetting. You have to listen quite some time specifically to bass sections befor you change gain to hear if there is a difference and how much of a difference, memory is tricky:)
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.
-
Before I forget, for this board, the inductors used in the output filter is 22 uH, which is more catered towards 8 ohm speakers (does not mean that it will not work with 4-6 ohm speakers).
The Soul Superfly that I use are 16ohm speakers? What value should the output filter be?
-
33uH for 16ohm is closest to 40.000hz filter, if you have redboard with 22uH that will be fine I guess, is similar to 8 ohm speakers with blueboard.
-
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.
I took out the 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II caps on my Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp and replaced them with a pair of 470uF / 35V Panasonic FM caps. I left the single 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM on the power supply inputs. The amp sounds smoother, more relaxed and better tonally. On some music like classical with heavy strings, the treble used to almost squeal at higher volumes. It was also a little smeared. Now it's very clean, and there is also less hiss/noise. At $10 a board plus about $15.00 of electrolytic caps and Bourns Ferrite beads as output filters, this amp is a real bargain.
-
The sure tpa3110 is far more sensitive to changing the Ecaps/bulksupply I feel. The 3116 shows some/most of the differences but all in a more controlled manner I feel. Fun thing with the sure3110 is adding caps can result in rolling low basses, far louder then 3116 (haven't tried as much combinations with 3116 yet), (I did put 3110 in 20dB gain and changed inputcaps).
Regarding outputfilter, inductors, speakerloads. Found a graph that visualises effect. Mind you filter used here is for SE amp, If you bridge this SE amp this 4 ohm SE filter becomes an 8ohm BTL filter like in tpa3116 redboard.
(http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pwm-f7.gif)
-
I took out the 1,000uF / 25V Elna Silmic II caps on my Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp and replaced them with a pair of 470uF / 35V Panasonic FM caps. I left the single 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM on the power supply inputs. The amp sounds smoother, more relaxed and better tonally. On some music like classical with heavy strings, the treble used to almost squeal at higher volumes. It was also a little smeared. Now it's very clean, and there is also less hiss/noise. At $10 a board plus about $15.00 of electrolytic caps and Bourns Ferrite beads as output filters, this amp is a real bargain.
Do you think the tpa3116 still bests the 3110?
On the tpa3116 thread over on DIYAudio, there's been some mention about matching the output inductor value to the speaker load. I.e., there are ideal values for 8 ohm versus 4 ohm speakers.
Does anyone know what the default (i.e. un-modded) ideal speaker impedance is for the Sure 3110 and JY Blue 3116 boards?
I haven't had a chance to compare my 3110 and 3116 again since I posted on it a while back. But this weekend, I turned my 3110 up more than usual and some of the magic was definitely lost. I've seen this before with this amp: it's not meant to play loud; at least not with my speakers. According to the docs, my speakers (Overnight Sensations) are about 83 dB efficient. The Sure tpa3110 only does 3 WPC at 8 ohms (which is what my speakers are) before the distortion gets pretty big. My usual listening volume is well under 80 dB, so there's no problem. But the few times I've tried to crank it, the result isn't good.
Many months ago (more like a year or more), I did compare my then-stock Sure tpa3110 to an older version of this TK2050-based HiFiMeDIY T2 (http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_72&product_id=52) amp with a 300 Watt Connex SMPS power supply. At lower volumes, the tpa3110 was better, no-contest. But once I wanted to crank the music loud enough that I could hear it in another room (wife put me on bathroom cleaning duty), and the tpa3110 just sounded awful when the volume was loud enough to be heard in the bathroom. But I switched over to the TK2050 and got the volume I needed and good-enough sound quality along with it.
So... anyway, I was thinking, I suspect that one's listening levels (combined with speaker efficiency) might greatly affect whether or not you prefer the 3110 or 3116. Also, the output filter inductor being correctly tuned to the speaker load might make a big difference as well (particularly considering that the general consensus is that the inductor upgrade seems to be the best bang-for-buck mod on the YJ Blue 3116).
-
With 96db speakers, I prefer the 3110 to the 3116.
Like you said, most likely has to do with fitting the power delivery profile.
-
With 96db speakers, I prefer the 3110 to the 3116.
Like you said, most likely has to do with fitting the power delivery profile.
Not surprising, majority of the time the lower powered version of any company's amps sounds the best.
-
With 96db speakers, I prefer the 3110 to the 3116.
How so?
-
It's too soon for me to say which amp is better, the TPA3110 or TPA3116. Before I changed the caps in either, I liked the TPA3116. Now it sounds like both are performing optimally. In both cases, I have determined the bass response to have improved using a test CD. But more importantly, the amps have better separation, sound stage depth, more natural and richer tone with a sweeter, cleaner treble. I just went overkill going with 1,500uF and 1,000uF caps on the DC decoupling. I don't know what the optimal capacitance is, and unfortunately, the thru-hole eyelets on these Chinese amps can only take 1-2 desolder/solder cycles for trying different caps before they come off. For now, 470uF seems to work well. If you were to ask me today how I would rank the Texas Instruments Class D amps I've tried so far, this is how they rank:
- Yuan Jing TPA3116 2.0 "blue" amp
- Sure Electronics TPA3110
- ChengZhi TPA3116
In all cases, I added a 2,200uF / 25V Panasonic FM electrolytic cap on the power supply input terminal blocks.
I think it all comes down to matching the best amp with your speakers and your listening preferences.
-
I haven't had a chance to compare my 3110 and 3116 again since I posted on it a while back. But this weekend, I turned my 3110 up more than usual and some of the magic was definitely lost. I've seen this before with this amp: it's not meant to play loud; at least not with my speakers. According to the docs, my speakers (Overnight Sensations) are about 83 dB efficient. The Sure tpa3110 only does 3 WPC at 8 ohms (which is what my speakers are) before the distortion gets pretty big. My usual listening volume is well under 80 dB, so there's no problem. But the few times I've tried to crank it, the result isn't good.
Really, your TPA3110 can drive a 83 dB speaker to usable listening levels? Then may be I should give it a try with my planar magnetic panels which are also 83 dB and is generally accepted to be very inefficient. I have been using a YJ red board for a few months now on my second pair of speakers (87dB) and like it. I was thinking that the red board will not have enough juice to play the panels at loud volume and did not even bother to try.
Regards,
-
Really, your TPA3110 can drive a 83 dB speaker to usable listening levels? Then may be I should give it a try with my planar magnetic panels which are also 83 dB and is generally accepted to be very inefficient. I have been using a YJ red board for a few months now on my second pair of speakers (87dB) and like it. I was thinking that the red board will not have enough juice to play the panels at loud volume and did not even bother to try.
I guess it depends how you define "usable". :-) My application with these particular speakers is sitting on my desk. IOW, very near field. Each speaker is maybe two or three feet from my head. Also, I'm certain most would consider my listening levels fairly low. The room where I use them shares a wall with my three year old's room, and I usually only get a chance to listen when she's sleeping. :-) I used an SPL meter app on my phone once, and the music was around 65 dB.
So, yes, usable for my particular case, but this wouldn't cut it for some. But then again, for $10, so not much of a gamble if it doesn't work out.
-
How so?
With the 3110, the midrange was a little more pleasing to my ear. And at low levels, I felt the balance was better.
The 3116 seemed to need a little more juice to come on song.
Small differences - I like both a lot, especially for the $ and fun involved.
-
I guess it depends how you define "usable". :-) My application with these particular speakers is sitting on my desk. IOW, very near field. Each speaker is maybe two or three feet from my head. Also, I'm certain most would consider my listening levels fairly low. The room where I use them shares a wall with my three year old's room, and I usually only get a chance to listen when she's sleeping. :-) I used an SPL meter app on my phone once, and the music was around 65 dB.
So, yes, usable for my particular case, but this wouldn't cut it for some. But then again, for $10, so not much of a gamble if it doesn't work out.
Thanks! Yeah, I suspected one does not need much power using the speaker for near field listening.
Regards
-
There might be some people reading this thread that do not have the 3110 amp discussed.
:D Nice to continue a discussion based on data PE specifies for a SureTPA3110, but better check TI datasheet. The TPA3110 is a 2x3watt amp at 8 ohm at 1%THD IF it is supplied by minimum voltage it can operate on: a 8V powersupply.
I bet most people here have a 12V powersupply, maybe even higher??? For a 12V powersupply the tpa3116 at max 1%THD will deliver with a pair of OvernightSensation 83dB 8ohm speakers around 94dB SPL at 1 meter. In other words it is a 2x8watt into 8ohm amp when coupled to a 12volt powersupply.
-
:o and ~93dB SPL with overnightsensation at 0.06% THD (5watt)
the 94dB above should be 95dB:D
-
Couple of post back some had mentioned smsl sa-36a pro which has tpa3118 chip. iPrice is pretty good at 40 bucks shipped.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html)
-
Do you have experience with seller?
-
Do you have experience with seller?
Nope, was just searching and came across the seller.
-
Couple of post back some had mentioned smsl sa-36a pro which has tpa3118 chip. iPrice is pretty good at 40 bucks shipped.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html)
Provided any of those components are genuine, that seems like an interesting option: they're using multiple caps for the PS for instance a la Salis Audio's recommendation for low ESR, which is a first.
Features english translation is hilarious.
SMSL products are not bad and have a decent rep.
-
Since my unit will see occasional use, I want to have a switch to shut the power off. With a "brick" type laptop power supply, where's the right place to put the switch -- in the AC 110v line or the 18.5v DC line?
Like PG and a few others, I plan to put the power supply inside the chassis, so either side of the power supply can be switched.
I realize either will shut off power to the unit, but I'm unclear if switching off current on the DC leg will prevent current from flowing on the AC -- I want to avoid any power consumption when the unit is shut down.
-
Since my unit will see occasional use, I want to have a switch to shut the power off. With a "brick" type laptop power supply, where's the right place to put the switch -- in the AC 110v line or the 18.5v DC line?
Like PG and a few others, I plan to put the power supply inside the chassis, so either side of the power supply can be switched.
I realize either will shut off power to the unit, but I'm unclear if switching off current on the DC leg will prevent current from flowing on the AC -- I want to avoid any power consumption when the unit is shut down.
I vote you switch on the AC. Minor reason: there was some talk on the diyaudio forum tpa3116 thread about sparking when switching on the DC.
But the bigger reason is that even with the DC shutoff, the power brick probably draws some current. Search the web for "phantom energy loss". It's unlikely to be much current, but, for example, say you're running entirely on solar power (off grid), and need to make every watt-amp count: opening the circuit at the AC level guarantees no phantom losses.
-
I've done it both ways and haven't found an advantage one way or the other. When I had a very long cord it made sense to install at the 110v line and if you make a bad splice you can easily replace the detachable power cord.
The 18v dc line is harder to splice so I used a coaxial power jack from Radio Shack ( #274-1582 ) and ran leads off it to the power switch. I installed it internally using a small bolted down L bracket so the brick resides onboard.
I use a slow blow fuse before the switch.
-
But the bigger reason is that even with the DC shutoff, the power brick probably draws some current.
The 18v dc line is harder to splice
Thanks. Looks like switching the AC is best. Another question regarding volume control with a TPA3110 in a computer desktop audio setup:
Thoughts between installing a POT as outlined in this thread, paired with a fixed output DAC... vs...
Using a DAC with volume control (eg., Dragonfly that controls the analog signal) paired with a TPA3110 configured as a power amp?
I'm attracted to the simplicity of PC/DAC volume control with no moving parts, what are other issues to consider?
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98421)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98422)
-
Thanks. Looks like switching the AC is best. Another question regarding volume control with a TPA3110 in a computer desktop audio setup:
Thoughts between installing a POT as outlined in this thread, paired with a fixed output DAC... vs...
Using a DAC with volume control (eg., Dragonfly that controls the analog signal) paired with a TPA3110 configured as a power amp?
I'm attracted to the simplicity of PC/DAC volume control with no moving parts, what are other issues to consider?
One thing you might want to think about is that software volume controls can be sub-optimal. It depends on several factors, but consider the case where you're listening to CD audio: you have 16 bits to represent the waveform of the sound. Volume is extra information that won't "fit" into those 16 bits without first "making room". A naive or poorly implemented volume control will remove precious waveform information to make room for the volume data.
This is my use-case: 99% of what I listen to is FLAC audio files ripped from my CD collection. My intent is to send to my DAC the exact same bitstream as if I was using a CD player. I don't want the operating system or any software to do anything to that bitstream.
However, it appears to me that smart software can preserve the original waveform and add volume information by increasing the number of bits, e.g. 16 bits of CD audio waveform data plus 8 bits for volume info equals 24 bits. Don't hold me to this, as that's just my assumption looking at the options in Foobar2000.
Personally I like having a physical volume control; I find it more ergonomic than software volume controls. But I think that's a matter of personal preference.
If the software can truly do it correctly (i.e. without altering the original waveform), then I don't think there is a right or wrong. If you're going to have physical volume controls, however, then you do need quality hardware (potentiometers, stepped attenuators, etc). I know the high-end ALPS brand pots are popular; I have no experience with them other than knowing they are expensive. However, earlier in this thread the Panasonic EJV 50k pot (Digikey part number P2G1503-ND) was mentioned. This costs less than $2 and at least I can't detect any sound quality degradation with these tpa311x amps. So if you prefer the physical volume control, I think you'll find it hard to be the EJV.
Look back a ways in this thread, I forget who did it, but someone built an external volume control with the Panny EJV in an Altoids tin. (There were pics posted). This is a great cheap way to give these pots a try without any real risk.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98421)
Wow, that's epic! Do you have a stock board to compare to the "transformer"? Is that board fragile with all that stuff hanging off it? I'd be afraid to move it for fear of busting something off!
Pretty nice!
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98421)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98422)
Awesome!! :thumb: have you listened yet?
-
Haven't the time yet. hopefully soon...
-
Nice work wushuliu. You really took advantage of the Yuan Jing blue amp's thru-holes for modification, which is the main advantage of this design.
-
Nice work wushuliu. You really took advantage of the Yuan Jing blue amp's thru-holes for modification, which is the main advantage of this design.
Yes, this board is a joy to work with in terms of desoldering and space. Took me only a fraction of the time to mod compared with other boards.
-
can you run down a list of the components you used, for those of us who can't recognize such things on the spot with an unclear picture? :P
-
can you run down a list of the components you used, for those of us who can't recognize such things on the spot with an unclear picture? :P
Coilcraft SER2915L 10uh inductors
TDK .22uf 250v X7R caps (bootstraps)
330uf 25v Panasonic hybrid electrolytics (PS caps)
Wima FKP, MKP, and MKS for .68uf,10nf, and 1nf output filter caps
36db gain resistor setting
Dayton MKP 2.2uf input caps
Jantzen Superior 2.2uf input caps
Amp sounds *excellent*. Clean and clear, no grain or edge. *Pure*.Best build yet. All done now w/ the TPA. Ready to move on.
I do want to get one of those power supplies that I think someone keeps mentioning. What are they again?
-
Are you talking about the Astron power supplies?
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004423 (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004423)
-
Are you talking about the Astron power supplies?
http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004423 (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004423)
Lol, yes I know. I was being a smart ass. Sorry.
-
here is a 7amp in rough shape for $29 on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASTRON-13-8-VOLT-POWER-SUPPLY-MODEL-RS-7A-5A-CONTINUOUS-7A-50-DUTY-EXCELLENT-/111336864052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec31b934
-
here is a 7amp in rough shape for $29 on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASTRON-13-8-VOLT-POWER-SUPPLY-MODEL-RS-7A-5A-CONTINUOUS-7A-50-DUTY-EXCELLENT-/111336864052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec31b934
Really $50 shipped. These supplies are clearly heavy since average shipping seems to be $25 for them so really they are more like $60 and higher for one in decent condition. The sweet spot seems to be the 12As or so. I'll probably get one soon before the prices go up thanks to you Tom!
-
Really $50 shipped. These supplies are clearly heavy since average shipping seems to be $25 for them so really they are more like $60 and higher for one in decent condition. The sweet spot seems to be the 12As or so. I'll probably get one soon before the prices go up thanks to you Tom!
You are welcome. But I mentioned this months ago on the TBI thread. These are heavy little units but shipping shouldn't be over $20. Some on Ebay likes to gouge on the shipping.
-
Ebay takes 10% of the final sales price, including 10% of the shipping fee that the seller charges the buyer. Most sellers seem to increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the shipping, and I can understand that. Many also increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the sales price of the item. That I do disagree with.
-
wushuliu: 8) Truely from another planet:)
Regarding my 1 week with Panasonic 680uF's 4x with 3116PBTL first impression last week was:
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.
One week later: Bass is best I heard with my 3116, now also includes lower bass, perfectly seemless integrated in with rest of music. Treble/mid is still clear/forward in voices/violin, with voices now there is more often an edge (microphone?) and gets close to a point I called harsh befor, border. Cymbals still softer in the mix, did regain a little more tone, the noise/hiss association is less, but compared to other caps they still are not really good in these highs. Also switching to tpa3110 with Nichicon Muse KZ reveals much more soundstage detail yet the edge, lower in frequency is gone. Previous I had low impedance United Chemicons in 3116, they had highs and soundstage detail at least comparable to Nichicon Muse in tpa3110. The bass of UC caps is more detached from music and a little less in amplitude and detail.
Tubepre will increase soundstage so I am told, most likely also remove edge from voices. But I feel what went missing in cymbals can not be regained earlier in soundchain, it is lost supplying power to the tpa3116. I havent tried silmics and nichicons with 3116 :) lets see/hear they have been waiting for weeks to get a chance:)
-
Ebay takes 10% of the final sales price, including 10% of the shipping fee that the seller charges the buyer. Most sellers seem to increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the shipping, and I can understand that. Many also increase their shipping prices to cover the 10% that Ebay takes from the sales price of the item. That I do disagree with.
What irks me is that some of these sellers are asking 35-50 bucks for shipping on these PSU's. You might as well buy a new one with free shipping from HRO. I believe a new 12 is $89.
-
wushuliu: 8) Truely from another planet:)
Regarding my 1 week with Panasonic 680uF's 4x with 3116PBTL first impression last week was:
re:rhing txs once again. I wrote off the Pan. FM cap after listening to it with sure3110, and quite a high value F it was. In 3116's I put in four 680uF FM's a couple of hours ago, first impressions: not harsh like with 3110. Voices seem clearer, more forward, bass is louder but not all bass, real low bass isn't, PinkFloyd "FletcherMemorial" bass doesn't move more air, it is above that frequence. But bass seems better integrated with rest of music. Above voices, cymbals seem a little more back/weaker in the mix, and for now less detailed more like noise/hiss, but will listen to these for at least a week now.
One week later: Bass is best I heard with my 3116, now also includes lower bass, perfectly seemless integrated in with rest of music. Treble/mid is still clear/forward in voices/violin, with voices now there is more often an edge (microphone?) and gets close to a point I called harsh befor, border. Cymbals still softer in the mix, did regain a little more tone, the noise/hiss association is less, but compared to other caps they still are not really good in these highs. Also switching to tpa3110 with Nichicon Muse KZ reveals much more soundstage detail yet the edge, lower in frequency is gone. Previous I had low impedance United Chemicons in 3116, they had highs and soundstage detail at least comparable to Nichicon Muse in tpa3110. The bass of UC caps is more detached from music and a little less in amplitude and detail.
Tubepre will increase soundstage so I am told, most likely also remove edge from voices. But I feel what went missing in cymbals can not be regained earlier in soundchain, it is lost supplying power to the tpa3116. I havent tried silmics and nichicons with 3116 :) lets see/hear they have been waiting for weeks to get a chance:)
I'd be curious what you think of the hybrid electrolytics. Since I made a lot of changes at once it's hard to say what contribution they are making, but I definitely don't have the slight haze/edge/etc. that new PS caps tend to exhibit at first before settling down. Clean from the get go.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEH-ZC1E331P/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugZXMPcJxEa3bgIAqdHUVHK6dO9FUupIPQ%3d
Nice bonus is the leads fold down so that they can be used as SMDs or regular through-hole. Clever.
-
Hi,
I thought you guys may like to try this as a power supply, I own a Sure Electronics TK2050 2*50 watter,(I just purchased TPA3116 to try later) and I use battery as power supply supplying 24Vdc to the TK2050. I use 4*6V battery, 2 in series and then parallel, Power Sonic battery, model PS1250 is easily available in the States for about $15-$20 each.
I did not mod my TK2050 it was already sounded quite good(*), after mods it will sound even better. Do try this alternative it will not disappoint. The Class D amp is very efficient, recharging is not really a problem, e.g. the amp was playing music for 3-4 hrs, there was a drop of just about 1volt.
* I compared it against LM3875, Class A F5, etc., it is up there when compared with them, all of them do sound a little different.
-
I'd be curious what you think of the hybrid electrolytics. Since I made a lot of changes at once it's hard to say what contribution they are making, but I definitely don't have the slight haze/edge/etc. that new PS caps tend to exhibit at first before settling down. Clean from the get go.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEH-ZC1E331P/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugZXMPcJxEa3bgIAqdHUVHK6dO9FUupIPQ%3d
Nice bonus is the leads fold down so that they can be used as SMDs or regular through-hole. Clever.
Just when I thought I could settle down with my TPA3116 amp, I find that there are more parts to try out. Not complaining though. This is what makes this hobby fun
-
Just when I thought I could settle down with my TPA3116 amp, I find that there are more parts to try out. Not complaining though. This is what makes this hobby fun
And the parts are inexpensive. I spent about $60 shipped on everything (except the input caps which I had laying around) including spares. The Coilcrafts had speedy shipping.
-
Next time I order something I will certainly add some hybrid caps. Japanese designer used Oscons for tpa3110 design, also lot of diodes in output and even beads below some solid polymer for PSU near tpachip. And oh some smd's seem colorcoded, never noticed that.
(Pan FM's edge wasn't there when I listened after 2 hours playtime last week, week later there is, less than with larger values I tried befor. You could call that snappy and live with it, but cymbals not good, cant live with that and imaging also poorer then 3110 with 330 uF Muse.)
(http://nabe.blog.abk.nu/public/image/nabe/adiary/2011/tpa3110d2-kit.jpg)
-
And the parts are inexpensive. I spent about $60 shipped on everything (except the input caps which I had laying around) including spares. The Coilcrafts had speedy shipping.
In your opinion, does your newly modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp sound better than the TBI Millenia TPA3100 amp?
-
In your opinion, does your newly modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp sound better than the TBI Millenia TPA3100 amp?
Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.
I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.
I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.
Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.
I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.
-
Very cool. Thank you and others on this thread and the diyAudio.com thread for sharing your experiences on these amps. I had almost given up on Class D amps based on the limitations of the Tripath amps--they're good, but not great. Taking these TI amps through mods and tweaks on a paltry budget is a real eye-opener. Can't wait to implement more mods.
-
This weekend, I tweaked my tpa3116 build a little bit. Main change was to add a volume pot (same $1.37 Panny EVJ 50k ohm I used on my tpa3110 build). I also tried to clean things up a bit. Still looks messy compared to Rhing's builds, but I think I'm moving in the right direction. You can see I also threw a 2200uF / 35V cap across the power inputs. Furthermore, I'm using shielded wire for the input, and before, I didn't connect the shielding to ground, so the effect was presumably negated. This time I actually soldered the shielding to ground. The shielded wire I have doesn't have a drain wire, so I have to bunch up the un-braided foil and just solder it as a big glob to ground. I covered up all that messiness with electrical tape. :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98635)
Here's a shot of the (mostly) finished product (waiting on a volume knob from ebay). This is a reminder of why you always use masking tape over everything when drilling.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98636)
Anyway, adding the volume knob allowed me to do a more "fair" comparison between my tpa3110 and tpa3116 builds. Before the volume knob on the tpa3116, I had to control volume via software.
I spent some time this weekend going back and forth between the two. On my system, and to my ears, I think I still give the 3110 a slight nod. Could I tell the difference in a blind test? Probably not.
Side note: I also picked up an Astron RS-12A power supply from ebay. (FWIW: $36 + $10 shipping, in pretty good condition. Hard to beat Rhing's $20 like-new Craigslist score!) I did a lot of back-and-forth between the Astron and the "K-Tec" 12V/2A wall-wart I got from Parts-Express (Part # 120-052) with the 3110 only, and I couldn't hear a difference. I know, that's blasphemy! :) But, I wonder if power supply quality matters more at higher current draw levels? Just an idea, but with my nearfield (desktop) setup, and ~65 dB listening levels, I'm not pulling much juice; a minimal load even for the wimpy little wall-wart. That, and/or my system simply isn't revealing enough.
I'm also starting to re-read the entire diyaudio tpa3116 thread (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp.html). A lot of info I skipped over or didn't understand the first time through now seems much more relevant.
In particular, I realized that the 3110 is a filterless design, i.e. the $10 Sure board doesn't have any large LC output filter. And that's why the ferrite beads are recommended, as they can help filter the FM frequencies out of the output (i.e. prevent your speaker wires from becoming broadcast antennas).
Whereas the 3116 boards all have an LC network for filtering out the inaudible noise introduced by the class-d amp circuit. One interesting note is that the older/cheaper "red" YJ boards used 22uH inductors and the newer "blue" YJ boards use 10uH inductors for output filter. Based on my (cursory) understanding, the former is better suited to an 8 ohm speaker load, and the latter a 4 ohm speaker load.
Given that my speakers are 8 ohm, and lots of people report improvements with output filter inductor replacement, I'm thinking that's where I ought to focus my next mod efforts.
-
Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.
I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.
I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.
Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.
I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.
Probably also means that this amp may be a better choice than a basic SET amp like Bottlehead, Decware, etc?
I had the TBI amp as well and it was not at all competitive with my (higher end) EL34 SET amp in many ways, maybe these new boards are worth a try...
-
Probably also means that this amp may be a better choice than a basic SET amp like Bottlehead, Decware, etc?
I had the TBI amp as well and it was not at all competitive with my (higher end) EL34 SET amp in many ways, maybe these new boards are worth a try...
I've got a Decware SE84CKC and a red board 3116 and 3110. I actually have a blue board 3116 coming in this week. The 3116 is a pretty darn good amp and when you factor in the price, it's impressive. Compared to the TPA amps, I definitely do prefer the Decware which is more dynamic, more dimensional and provides a little more foundation to the music as well. That said, there's a pretty big price differential between these and the fact that I can throw the 3116 in my system and appreciate it says a lot about this little amp.
-
The green black SMD's on japanese pcb are Rubicons polymer smd:roll:
Good price for smd :green:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/100ST104MB23225/1189-2042-1-ND/3986907 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/100ST104MB23225/1189-2042-1-ND/3986907)
-
Been a while now since I had the Millenia and mine did not have the power supply mod but yes I feel very confident it sounds much, much better. Back when I had the Millenia I compared it to a slightly modified 3100D2 stock board from TI and did not hear an appreciable difference, with the edge going to my stock board (which is why I eventually sold the TBI). So I think a competent stock 3116 would still sound better anyway. But my Decepticon just sounds awesome. The clarity and transparency is superb. Clean, clean, clean. See-through sound. I know when I've done good when I immediately stop thinking about the amp and head straight to listening to different music and other things. It's like a 'done' switch gets flipped and I stop musing about what I can mod next.
I can't imagine getting more out of it other than flavoring by trying different input caps, etc. So no, I don't believe the Millenia came anywhere close to this. Of course I'm sure I'll play around with other parts for kicks eventually, but this build is now my reference. After 2 years of modding various TPA amps I feel like I've reached the mountaintop.
I do think the onboard PS caps, inductors, gain setting, and potentially the bootstraps are the areas where the greatest difference can be made.
Tom shrugs off my comments about the TBI not doing the PS caps as part of their upgrade, but I maintain that the TBI could be improved by swapping the cheap (Jamicon?) caps and playing with the inductors as ALL TPA amps I have modded respond to these changes and the feedback from others with similar experiences attest to this.
I'll take some credit for bringing the TPA to the diyaudio crowd and now 18mos/2yrs? later ebay is flooded with them (which was my goal). I remember telling Tom way back when the TBI tour first started that the diy crowd needed to get a hold of these chips in a big way. Mission accomplished. Very happy.
Through all the years I have been in this hobby I have learned to never speculate or generalize. If you do, it normally bites you in the behind. So if I have never heard it in my system, I never speculate.
Unfortunately wushuliu never did hear the very latest version of the Millenia. I remember very well the version he had and the current version I now have. There is no comparison, the latest version is significantly better. And if wushuliu's amp is significantly better than the first version he had, the comparison between his and the Millenia should actually be close. And if his amp did significantly beat the very latest version of the Millenia, then all audiophiles should just get rid of their current amp and get one of these. No other amp made today would ever touch it.
Probably the only way to improve these amps further is to hook up the Dueland Alexander caps but they are so expensive and large. And who wants to spend 500 hours to wait for the break-in? Been there, done that.
And to generalize that all PPS caps are no good is like saying all SET amps are no good just because you heard two or three bad ones. All PPS caps are not the same. These PPS caps are not Jamicon, but I cannot tell anyone the caps TBI uses. If I had found these and modded the amp on my own I would let everyone know. These caps did make a significant difference.
What started my road to these amps was the TNT audio review of about three years ago.
-
I asked wushuliu for his opinion, because I highly value his take on the many mods and tweaks he's tried with the various TPA31xx Class D amps. I am sure the TBI Millenia is a fine amp, and wushuliu acknowledged he hasn't listened to the Millenia with the latest improvements. I know from reading his posts on various forum threads that it was the Millenia that sparked his quest to search for a DIY route to capturing the magic he heard with the amp.
Experimenting with these inexpensive amps has really opened my eyes to the possibilities of achieving high end audio performance at a fraction of the cost of most high end gear, especially when these amps are paired with higher efficiency speakers.
-
Right. IIRC I tried to join tour of the new version of the Millenia to compare but Tom was (understandably) wanting his baby back after it being on the road for so long. Maybe down the road if time permits I'll do a second 'Decepticon' and he and/or other Millenia owners can compare.
My posts are my opinions only. Just a hobby. Havin' fun. No big deal.
:beer:
-
No hard feelings, this is fun not to spend an arm and a leg to get this kind of level of quality. wushuliu has been great to extend this ti the DIY crowd. :thumb:
-
Since my first TPA3116 build has been up and running for about two and a half weeks, and I started my second one today, I thought it was about time to share a couple photos.
This one uses the blue/black board, with Bourns inductors, Panasonic power supply caps and Radio Shack input caps. It has an on/off switch, but no volume pot/knob. It will be a dedicated amp for streaming through an Airport Express. The gain is set at the standard 26dB and volume control is through software.
It is mounted in the Context Engineering 3008 enclosure from San Jose Scientific. It's a bit of a tight fit, both getting all the connectors/jacks on the back panel and getting everything in the case. But it fits and makes a very small, clean looking amp.
Guts shot:
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kerrythalmann/TPA3116D2_Build1_Photo1_zps0bc9db1d.jpg?t=1399271413)
The back panel:
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kerrythalmann/TPA3116D2_Build1_Photo2_zpsee5f4bc6.jpg)
I should have the second build done in a day or two. The only difference will be the enclosure and a little green power indicator LED on the front panel.
-
Looks great, nice build. I am about to start one shortly, what size wire do you use for input signal and power/speaker out?
-
Since my first TPA3116 build has been up and running for about two and a half weeks, and I started my second one today, I thought it was about time to share a couple photos.
This one uses the blue/black board, with Bourns inductors, Panasonic power supply caps and Radio Shack input caps. It has an on/off switch, but no volume pot/knob. It will be a dedicated amp for streaming through an Airport Express. The gain is set at the standard 26dB and volume control is through software.
It is mounted in the Context Engineering 3008 enclosure from San Jose Scientific. It's a bit of a tight fit, both getting all the connectors/jacks on the back panel and getting everything in the case. But it fits and makes a very small, clean looking amp.
I should have the second build done in a day or two. The only difference will be the enclosure and a little green power indicator LED on the front panel.
Very nice work with a really confining, compact space. I hope you have something electrically insulating under the rear portion of the board to keep the board from making contact with the Aluminum chassis. I noticed there is no mounting screw on the rear end of the board by the outputs. Shorting the outputs of these amps would not be good.
Looks great, nice build. I am about to start one shortly, what size wire do you use for input signal and power/speaker out?
Signal wiring.........................20-22AWG stranded Copper
DC power wiring....................16-19AWG stranded Copper
Speaker wiring......................14-20AWG stranded Copper
Keep in mind that the larger diameter wire needs to fit into the terminal blocks.
-
Very nice work with a really confining, compact space. I hope you have something electrically insulating under the rear portion of the board to keep the board from making contact with the Aluminum chassis. I noticed there is no mounting screw on the rear end of the board by the outputs. Shorting the outputs of these amps would not be good.
I used 3/8" nylon standoffs at all three mounting hole locations. So, there is one under the rear mounting hole. The mounting holes in the PCB are two different sizes and the only standoffs I had on hand take M4 screws, which are a little too big to fit through the rear mounting hole. So, I just need to find a 3/8" standoff that takes a smaller mounting screw. I'll dig around in the parts bins at work and see what I can find. If not, I'll tack a couple onto my next Digikey order. But yes, there is something there holding up that end of the board.
The build I'm working on now uses an plastic ABS enclosure. So, no worries about shorting anything to the chassis on that one.
Signal wiring.........................20-22AWG stranded Copper
DC power wiring....................16-19AWG stranded Copper
Speaker wiring......................14-20AWG stranded Copper
Keep in mind that the larger diameter wire needs to fit into the terminal blocks.
I used 18AWG stranded for power and speaker outputs. It's what I had on hand and I kept all these leads as short as possible. For the signal wiring, I used the wires that came with the board. I thought they were 22AWG, but I just checked and they are 24AWG. I did shorten them a bit and twisted them all together. I haven't noticed any problems, but this may be something I upgrade to heavier gauge, shielded wires.
-
You're fine with the 24AWG signal wires you have in there now.
-
Couple of post back some had mentioned smsl sa-36a pro which has tpa3118 chip. iPrice is pretty good at 40 bucks shipped.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html (http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html)
I just ordered one of these for my Daughter who is moving out for the first time to do an internship in Winthrop WA. I'm planning on using it with a Pure i20 dock and a pair of Danny's LGK1s. Has anyone else heard one of these yet? And if so what did you compare it to?
Thanks
Greg
-
I just ordered one of these for my Daughter who is moving out for the first time to do an internship in Winthrop WA. I'm planning on using it with a Pure i20 dock and a pair of Danny's LGK1s. Has anyone else heard one of these yet? And if so what did you compare it to?
Thanks
Greg
There are 2 vendors on ebay selling the tpa3118 for ~$60 shipped. I think I might order 1 to compare with tpa3116.
-
There are 2 vendors on ebay selling the tpa3118 for ~$60 shipped. I think I might order 1 to compare with tpa3116.
The site above was $40.00 shipped, are you worried about the vendor?
-
The site above was $40.00 shipped, are you worried about the vendor?
Interesting. When I had posted the link shipping was not free and it added another 40 or so dollars hence my ebay post.
-
The site above was $40.00 shipped, are you worried about the vendor?
Wow, at $40 shipped, including the power brick, it starts to take away the incentive to DIY. I haven't totaled up all my BOM costs yet, but I know I have more than that in my first TPA3116 build.
-
Wow, at $40 shipped, including the power brick, it starts to take away the incentive to DIY. I haven't totaled up all my BOM costs yet, but I know I have more than that in my first TPA3116 build.
That was my thought exactly, I already purchased the TPA3116 red board but haven't had time to start on it. If this sounds similar it's kind of a no brainer, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Greg
-
I just ordered one of these for my Daughter who is moving out for the first time to do an internship in Winthrop WA.
I love the Winthrop area. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of internship will your daughter be doing? Something with the Forest Service or National Park Service?
-
That was my thought exactly, I already purchased the TPA3116 red board but haven't had time to start on it. If this sounds similar it's kind of a no brainer, I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Greg
Yes, but DIY is still fun, rewarding, lets you get creative with the enclosure and allows you to customize the amp to match your application. It's nice to have a pre-assembled version for those who aren't inclined to DIY, but that won't stop me from building my own.
-
I love the Winthrop area. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of internship will your daughter be doing? Something with the Forest Service or National Park Service?
She's working for a company called Pacific Biodiversity, they're a non profit and funding comes from Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. She'll be studying the endangered native NW Grey Squirrel and associated plant life.
I love the area as well and spent a lot of my younger days skate boarding down the East side of the North Cascades Highway at 3:00 in the morning, then climbing around and hanging out with friends from the Bothell area where I grew up.
Yes, but DIY is still fun, rewarding, lets you get creative with the enclosure and allows you to customize the amp to match your application. It's nice to have a pre-assembled version for those who aren't inclined to DIY, but that won't stop me from building my own.
I agree it can be fun which is why I bought the board, I just never seem to find time to work on these projects. My daughter loves music, not that she had much choice with me as her Dad. My plan was to build it for her but she just found out she got this and is leaving on the 18th. I'll get to putting that board together along with a couple of other projects I haven't gotten to one of these days.
-
Wow, at $40 shipped, including the power brick, it starts to take away the incentive to DIY. I haven't totaled up all my BOM costs yet, but I know I have more than that in my first TPA3116 build.
It was just a matter of time before a decent Chinese manufacturer like SMSL came out with a TPA31xx amp. I'm sure there are other Chinese manufacturers working on similar products.
I used to have an SMSL SA-S1 Tripath TA2020 that was one of the best-sounding TA2020 amps I had heard. It was very well constructed and well voiced using good components. That said, the TPA31xx amps sound better than the TA2020 amps including the SMSL SA-S1. I would guess that barring any quality issues, the SMSL SA-36 Pro is a good amp, maybe even a great amp, and you can't beat the economics. For someone who isn't into DIY, this is a great deal for getting into the TPA31xx amps.
-
For me ebay prices including shipping are double(or over) the prices from taobao-agent and shentzen link. shentzen link I didn't manage to open and get any info on "who we are" "shipping" etc, did not like that, did anybody order there and received the amp yet? It is through paypal, or at least logo is on mainpage, payment info I could not open either. Is it my browser?
-
For me ebay prices including shipping are double(or over) the prices from taobao-agent and shentzen link. shentzen link I didn't manage to open and get any info on "who we are" "shipping" etc, did not like that, did anybody order there and received the amp yet? It is through paypal, or at least logo is on mainpage, payment info I could not open either. Is it my browser?
I ordered the amp today using paypal and got a receipt emailed back to me shortly after. I'll let you know how it goes from here........
Greg
-
I ordered the amp today using paypal and got a receipt emailed back to me shortly after. I'll let you know how it goes from here........
Greg
It's now $50! You snooze you lose :lol:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html
-
They pay attention to these threads...
-
They pay attention to these threads...
Well, in that case... At $50.00 it's WAY overpriced and I would never in a million years consider buying one at that price when I can build one myself in the case of my choice for less money. :wink:
-
It's now $50! You snooze you lose :lol:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html
Wow, glad I ordered it when I did :thumb:
Even at $50.00 and free shipping it's a great deal, you can hardly build one for that price. They look well built too, I'll post my thoughts when I receive it.
-
Well, in that case... At $50.00 it's WAY overpriced and I would never in a million years consider buying one at that price when I can build one myself in the case of my choice for less money. :wink:
Guess we posted at the same time.
Let's boycott them until the price comes back down to something affordable, boy are they money grabbers :lol:
-
50 bucks is out of my range now. I was going to buy one tonight. :(
-
50 bucks is out of my range now. I was going to buy one tonight. :(
Lol
-
Signal wiring.........................20-22AWG stranded Copper
DC power wiring....................16-19AWG stranded Copper
Speaker wiring......................14-20AWG stranded Copper
Perfect, thanks.
What is your recommendation for attaching the input signal wires from chassis mounted RCA connectors to the TPA3110 board?
Are you soldering the wire leads directly to the board, attaching a terminal block (if so, which one?), or something else?
-
$50 bucks, no remote capability. These guys will be out of business soon!
This one is twice as much but it has a remote and Bluetooth! Definitely worth the extra $$ IMHO.
http://gracedigital.myshopify.com/collections/home-audio/products/bluetooth-digital-stereo-amplifier-24w
-
Perfect, thanks.
What is your recommendation for attaching the input signal wires from chassis mounted RCA connectors to the TPA3110 board?
Are you soldering the wire leads directly to the board, attaching a terminal block (if so, which one?), or something else?
Personally I think it best to solder direct whenever possible, including speaker connection once all modding is done.
-
$50 bucks, no remote capability. These guys will be out of business soon!
This one is twice as much but it has a remote and Bluetooth! Definitely worth the extra $$ IMHO.
http://gracedigital.myshopify.com/collections/home-audio/products/bluetooth-digital-stereo-amplifier-24w
Is this a TPA based amp?
-
received some of the C&C panasonic pots today, tried a 50k log pot twice, huge difference between left and right ch. measured 31k left, 47k right same position second one LOL also ordered some 10k's tried one next, works ok. 10k is enough to be totally silent, surprised me little, gets loud little faster, and sound is little brighter I think, but need to listen more to determine if 10k is better or not:) maybe pinout of 50k pots I have received is different??? connected them like rhing pictured them, all of them:)
-
now I put in panasonic za, volumerange of 10k pot seems larger, not faster loud anymore, mmm maybe need to check tomorrow or did others noticed the same with the hybrid caps? needed to turn volume up higher? subjectively?
-
Is this a TPA based amp?
Yes, is this the same type of board or something completely different?
-
GDI-BTAR122 Power output: 2 x 12 watts RMS at 6 ohms, 10 watts RMS at 8 ohms, that is the only version they offer now, back dc entrance states 18-24v, 3110 is more powerfull with those voltages, 3116 family too:). does TI make weaker chips, yep plenty, I just do not know them, does TI specify chips at 6 ohm and 8 ohm??? seems to imply 4 ohm speakers can't be connected??? doesn't seem like TI chip, but maybe old one?
-
They pay attention to these threads...
Ya but we never make money via being their R&D department, we just pay it out to them for products.
-
I need another one of these amps like I need a hole in the head, but pulled the trigger on this one anyway:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013 (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013)
For the price including free shipping, I figure I couldn't lose, plus it's through eBay which requires more accountability than buying directly from Shenzhen Audio. It will arrive in about a week and I post some feedback on it. My past experience with SMSL was positive, so why not try one.
I just received another Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116 blue amp and installed the following:
- 2x Panasonic OSCON 330uF/25V organic semiconductor caps
- 4x TDK X7R 220nF/250V ceramic caps
After some extended listening and comparison to my near stock YJ blue amp, I'll swap in the following in steps:
- 4x Coilcraft SER2915L-103KL 10uH shielded inductors
- 4x NOS Wima MKP10 3.3uF/160V metallized Polypropylene film caps with tinned Copper leads
I am interested in comparing these various Class D amps that are invading my amp collection.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99487)
-
I need another one of these amps like I need a hole in the head, but pulled the trigger on this one anyway:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013 (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013)
For the price including free shipping, I figure I couldn't lose, plus it's through eBay which requires more accountability than buying directly from Shenzhen Audio. It will arrive in about a week and I post some feedback on it. My past experience with SMSL was positive, so why not try one.
I just received another Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116 blue amp and installed the following:
- 2x Panasonic OSCON 330uF/25V organic semiconductor caps
- 4x TDK X7R 220nF/250V ceramic caps
After some extended listening and comparison to my near stock YJ blue amp, I'll swap in the following in steps:
- 4x Coilcraft SER2915L-103KL 10uH shielded inductors
- 4x NOS Wima MKP10 3.3uF/160V metallized Polypropylene film caps with tinned Copper leads
I am interested in comparing these various Class D amps that are invading my amp collection.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99487)
I'm listening to this amp right now and have been for about 4 hours. just got it today after ordering it on the 5th and it shipping out Singapore Post on the 7th.
I have not listened to the 3116 yet as I bought the red board about 6 weeks ago, just no time to put it together. Anyway, this amp sound really good to me and my guess it meets the same standards as the amps talked about on this thread.
It seems like a no brainer if you don't want to put something together yourself. I purchased the amp the day before they went up $10.00 so got mine for $40.00
I own a couple of the modified TBI Mellinia amps and this has a similar sound quality to it, very open and revealing of the source. I don't hear a ton of bass but it may just be the boston acoustics book shelf speakers I'm listening to which I'm not familiar with.
I'm sending my daughter off tomorrow for the first time for an internship and put a system together for her including a Pure i20 dock which is why I bought the amp. She is a music lover like myself and I wanted her to have something decent to listen to.
I will not be able to compare the amp to the 3116 so hoping someone else here can give me some input.
Greg
-
I need another one of these amps like I need a hole in the head, but pulled the trigger on this one anyway:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013 (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=121336456013)
For the price including free shipping, I figure I couldn't lose, plus it's through eBay which requires more accountability than buying directly from Shenzhen Audio. It will arrive in about a week and I post some feedback on it. My past experience with SMSL was positive, so why not try one.
I just received another Yuan Jing 2.0 TPA3116 blue amp and installed the following:
- 2x Panasonic OSCON 330uF/25V organic semiconductor caps
- 4x TDK X7R 220nF/250V ceramic caps
After some extended listening and comparison to my near stock YJ blue amp, I'll swap in the following in steps:
- 4x Coilcraft SER2915L-103KL 10uH shielded inductors
- 4x NOS Wima MKP10 3.3uF/160V metallized Polypropylene film caps with tinned Copper leads
I am interested in comparing these various Class D amps that are invading my amp collection.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99487)
1uF filter caps on other side? do your klipsch have modified filter/tweeter? 10uH with ~16ohm impedance for tweeter high frequencies isn't ideal, you tried the millers in 10uH too, so probably impedance is lowered by new klipsch filter/tweeter? btw some designers only change filter cap values in outputfilter
-
I relocated the 4x 0.68uF film caps on the underside of the amp to give more space to the bulky Coilcraft inductors, which will go in later.
-
Since my first TPA3116 build has been up and running for about two and a half weeks, and I started my second one today, I thought it was about time to share a couple photos.
This one uses the blue/black board, with Bourns inductors, Panasonic power supply caps and Radio Shack input caps. It has an on/off switch, but no volume pot/knob. It will be a dedicated amp for streaming through an Airport Express. The gain is set at the standard 26dB and volume control is through software.
It is mounted in the Context Engineering 3008 enclosure from San Jose Scientific. It's a bit of a tight fit, both getting all the connectors/jacks on the back panel and getting everything in the case. But it fits and makes a very small, clean looking amp.
Guts shot:
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kerrythalmann/TPA3116D2_Build1_Photo1_zps0bc9db1d.jpg?t=1399271413)
The back panel:
(http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/kerrythalmann/TPA3116D2_Build1_Photo2_zpsee5f4bc6.jpg)
I should have the second build done in a day or two. The only difference will be the enclosure and a little green power indicator LED on the front panel.
Wow, it's been over two weeks now and I still don't have my second board installed in its enclosure. But, there's a reason...
Installing the second board in it's enclosure will be much more challenging. The new enclosure is wider, but not as deep and not as tall. It will require some mechanical modifications to both the board and enclosure just to get it to fit, but the real challenge will be getting everything hooked up (without excessively long wires) and buttoning it up. The new enclosure is a two-piece design with a removable bottom. Much more challenging than the four-piece Context Engineering case shown above, with a removable top and removable front and back end panels (much easier to drill the holes for the jacks and connectors and hook up the wires). But, I've figured out how to do it. Not rocket science, but time consuming, will require slow, meticulous work and a steady hand. I don't want to be taking the board in and out of the case for mods once I get it installed. I want to install it in the enclosure once, and only once.
That final sentence is the reason for the delay. Up until this morning, I just wasn't satisfied with the sound quality I was getting out of my first TPA3116 amp (the one shown in the photos above), and I didn't want to go to through the mechanical challenges of installing the second board in its enclosure (I'll include some photos once I actually get to that point) until I worked out the sound quality issues.
Keep in mind, these sound quality issues are a function of: the other equipment I am using, the source material, the application, the end users, and personal preference. So, what I am about to share is specific to my requirements and may not coincide with what others have experienced and shared.
First, the end users and application: These first two amps are to be gifts for my daughter on her 15th birthday and my girlfriend. Neither girl are what you'd call serious audiophiles, but both love music and enjoy the systems I have given them previously. They both will be streaming their music (iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, iHeart Radio, etc.) through an Airport Express and listening through bookshelf speakers I have given them previously (Monitor Audio Bronze B1 for my daughter and modified Polk RTi28 for my girlfriend). These little amps are designed to replace the vintage receivers I'd previously given them (Sansui 221 for the daughter, NAD 7120 for the GF). Although both like the sound of their current system, neither want, nor need a big, old, power hungry receiver for their intended (and only) use.
I am a more critical listener than either of these ladies and I want both systems to sound as good as possible. Until this morning, I have been dissatisfied with the sound I was getting out of these amps, compared to both current systems and compared to my own bedroom system (NAD 7150 integrated amp, Pioneer SP-BS22-LR with Definitive Technology ProSub 800 and a variety of high quality sources).
The first thing I noticed is the flat, somewhat lifeless highs and upper mids. This isn't really a fault of the TPA3116, it's more a function of the compressed source material and the limitations of the Airport Express. The music just didn't sound as "musical" as what I'm used to. It lacked that warmth and presence I am used to with my vintage analog gear.
It also lacked deep, full bass. Keep in mind, I have modified these boards (as shown in the photos above). The Bourns inductors made the biggest difference. The bass is very tight, but lacks fullness.
The first thing I did was insert a FiiO D03K DAC between the Airport Express and the TPA3116. This immediately fixed the mids and highs. It REALLY opened things up. The highs are very warm and pleasant, with absolutely no listening fatigue. Most of all, the music now has an amazing soundstage - amazing stereo image and three dimensional depth to it. Amazing what a difference this inexpensive little DAC can make.
But, it even further reduced the bass. I even tried adding a couple different powered subwoofers and was beginning to consider giving both gals subwoofers to go with their new systems, which would have defeated the purpose of something small and unobtrusive that uses very little power. Besides, even with the subwoofers, I could just not get things to sound the way I wanted them to. So, I went back to just the Airport Express and no DAC as a slightly better, but not really acceptable (to me) overall compromise and began to look at ways to fix the bass issue.
The first thing I noticed is I had a wiring error in the photos above. I had the speaker connections wired out of phase (surprised no one else noticed that). I was hopeful that this would solve my bass issue. It did not. Even when properly in phase, the bass still lacked the fullness I am accustomed to.
One of the issues is both gals listen at low to moderate levels. So, both have the loudness buttons on their vintage receivers permanently engaged. I do the same with my bedroom system. So, I was really looking for something that would give me the warm highs, fantastic sound stage of my vintage analog gear, combined with the fullness of bass provided by the loudness button on these old receivers.
Well, with digital sources, it makes sense to use the built-in EQ settings to tailor the sound. Unfortunately, the iPhone and iPad have limited fixed EQ "modes". The first one I tried was, of course, "Loudness". It helped the bass, but over-boosted the highs and made them very harsh sounding with severe listening fatigue. I tried a few other EQ settings until I ended up with "Bass Booster" on. Much better, but a little boomy. I was getting close.
Next was reinserting the DAC in the chain to get back the warm, lush highs and fantastic soundstage. That did it. The DAC, combined with "Bass Booster" on gave me the sound I was looking for. The DAC seems to also tame the boominess of the "Bass Booster" setting. I finally had the sound I was after. It gives me the warm, lush highs and three dimensional sound stage I wanted, but also full, impactful, but not boomy bass. In some ways, the sound is even better than the old analog gear it will be replacing. The TPA3116 definitely has less background noise than the old receivers it is replacing, and the soundstage is incredible.
I spent the morning listening to several different tracks, from my daughter's, my GF's and my own playlists. The sound is really very pleasing to my ears. Cymbals and bells are crisp, without any hint of harshness. Strings and acoustic guitars sound very much like live instruments. Piano and vocals, especially female vocals, are very lush and full sounding. I am pleased. Now, I just need to button up everything and deliver my gifts (daughter's 15th birthday is 1 week from today).
I realize that the sound I was seeking could have been achieved by other means - quite possibly one of the little 3-tube preamps others hve recommended in this thread. But, the goal here was specific to the end users and their specific application. They both want something small, unobtrusive and low power that integrates well, and looks good with their iPhones and iPads and allows better sound quality for their iTunes libraries and internet radio apps.
I'll post final photos and eventually a complete BOM for these builds in another week, or two. For now, I just wanted to share my listening impressions and the path I followed to get the sound I desired out of these little, inexpensive TPA3116 boards.
-
Wow, it's been over two weeks now and I still don't have my second board installed in its enclosure. But, there's a reason...
[ ... trim for brevity ... ]
Thanks for that detailed write-up, very interesting.
Sounds like you've already got the problem solved, but something else you might want to consider: MiniDSP (http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4). I don't own one, but keep seeing it mentioned in related threads. I believe you can buy the MiniDSP in "naked" PCB form, and (with the right case), roll it into your tpa3116 build... pretty sure someone over on diyAudio did exactly this. I can think of at least a couple uses for such a device in my own setup; seems pretty versatile.
I know you're running short on time to get these done, but also on the diyAudio thread, some folks mentioned a bass increase with bigger input signal (dc de-coupling) caps (bigger than 1uF) and/or changing the gain setting... I don't remember the details, and that thread (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp.html) has become a beast, but I do think it was discussed fairly recently, so maybe look at the most recent month's worth of postings?
Anyway, just throwing out more ideas for anyone else who might be wrestling with similar issues.
-
Sounds like you've already got the problem solved, but something else you might want to consider: MiniDSP (http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4). I don't own one, but keep seeing it mentioned in related threads. I believe you can buy the MiniDSP in "naked" PCB form, and (with the right case), roll it into your tpa3116 build... pretty sure someone over on diyAudio did exactly this. I can think of at least a couple uses for such a device in my own setup; seems pretty versatile.
Interesting option. I may consider adding a miniDSP for the larger TPA3116 amp I plan to build for myself. But, for these little cheap and cheerful dedicated Airport Express set ups, I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting and the Fiio D3 DAC is a lot less expensive than the miniDSP. Certainly not as versatile as the miniDSP, but simple, cheap and does the desired job.
I know you're running short on time to get these done, but also on the diyAudio thread, some folks mentioned a bass increase with bigger input signal (dc de-coupling) caps (bigger than 1uF) and/or changing the gain setting... I don't remember the details, and that thread (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp.html) has become a beast, but I do think it was discussed fairly recently, so maybe look at the most recent month's worth of postings?
I've been following that thread. There is a LOT of information there. From what I can gather, the larger caps aren't nearly as effective as the inductor swap (which I've already done on all my TPA3116 boards) for improving the bass. Also, some posters are actually decreasing the gain down to 20dB to better match the 3-tube 6N3 based preamps. So many options, so little time.
-
Some are reducing gain to 20dB without even considering the tube preamp.
-
I've been doing some extensive listening with my Yuan Jing TPA3116 2.0 blue amp modified with the following:
- Panasonic OSCON SEPF 330uF/25V organic semiconductor capacitors as power supply decoupling caps
- TDK X7R 220nF/250V ceramic capacitors as bootstrap capacitors
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99903)
This combination sounds great and really improved the sound quality in terms of:
- Improved frequency response--deeper, more punchy bass, and airy highs
- Smoother presentation with a warmer tone
- Greater detail
- Better separation and a more focused image
- More dynamic range with a significant improvement in attack and decay
I decided to do the same Panasonic OSCON mod to my Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp as well, and obtained the same improvements.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99904)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99905)
I used a magnet to check if the leads and caps were magnetic and they are not. In fact, both the TDK and Panasonic OSCON caps have tinned Copper leads. Better yet, the OSCONs do not contain a liquid electrolyte that will slowly evaporate over time.
My next step is to install the Coilcraft SER2915L 10uH shielded inductors in my Yuan Jing TPA3116 2.0 blue amp. After that, I will install a quad of NOS Wima MKP10 3.3uF/160V metallized Polypropylene film caps on the inputs.
-
I hate that the oscons don't go to 35v...
Rhing, a quad per channel, or two per channel? I ask because it'd be correct with 2 per channel, but 4 per channel would require larger caps for proper corner frequency. Unless you change the gain.
Are people at DIYaudio using the TDK? Just curious how you came to them.
-
I hate that the oscons don't go to 35v...
Rhing, a quad per channel, or two per channel? I ask because it'd be correct with 2 per channel, but 4 per channel would require larger caps for proper corner frequency. Unless you change the gain.
Are people at DIYaudio using the TDK? Just curious how you came to them.
The OSCONs are mostly used in digital circuits and high frequency applications. I would be surprised to see anything in larger voltages. If you want low ESR, Panasonic FM and Nichicon HE electrolytically are good performers.
As for the Wima's, it would be two per channel, so for a 2-channel amp, it would be four total or a quad. 3.3uF is recommended per the TI data sheet for 26dB gain. This yields an input impedance of 30kohm, which is fine for my system.
Wushuliu mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that he used the TDK X7R ceramic caps for the bootstraps and the Panasonic low ESR hybrid caps, which got me thinking about trying the OSCONs. I would expect the Panasonic hybrid caps to be very good for power supply decoupling in this amp too.
-
I hate that the oscons don't go to 35v...
Rhing, a quad per channel, or two per channel? I ask because it'd be correct with 2 per channel, but 4 per channel would require larger caps for proper corner frequency. Unless you change the gain.
Are people at DIYaudio using the TDK? Just curious how you came to them.
For 3116 25v is enough I think? Most capacitors can handle a little more for short period, don't know about oscons, but the hybrids can handle +30% surge voltage. I also don't think tpa3116 protection allows more, which can start switching off at 24.3v (27v-10%) so a 24.3v<27v powersupply can work on some but not all produced chips I read somewhere. Some are experiencing heat with 24v powersupplies, so I guess that is not unexpected/strange. SQ gets better going down to 21v some experienced long time ago with variable bench supplies.
edit: nichicons (blue marked) do go to 35v, don't know if they are equal, worse or better:)
-
Hey Rhing, great-looking clean work as always. I'm curious, how many tpa311x amps have now passed through your hands?
-
Hey Rhing, great-looking clean work as always. I'm curious, how many tpa311x amps have now passed through your hands?
Thanks Matt. Seven total. I built a couple for people who asked me to build amps for them. I built one using a donated ChengZhi TPA3118 amp from shadowlight for the amp tour, and the others are in my possession. I have other SS and tube amps I've built or restored and modified.
-
Green board with top cover removed is up and running. Excellent sound with the 3 tube preamp but less than spectacular with the solid state TC preamp.
No annoying on/off pop with this one. Can't say at this point if it's better or worse than the blue/black.
Having sampled all colors, they're all winners. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99927)
-
Hi all,
I just got a few days ago a YJ blue/black board after stumbling on the discussion here. I rigged it up in temporary setup with stepped attenuator on input for listening prior to modding. Sounds promising so far, apart from a really bothersome hiss coming through the speakers. At the moment this makes the amp a disappointment to me - impossible to use nearfield on computer, but can still hear the hiss seated about 15ft away. Using 87db-ish full range 4 inch speakers (DIY).
I read that reducing the gain to 20db might help (which I will do) but wondered if anyone could comment on other solutions and whether my board is perhaps worse than the average or if this is just a factor with this chip? Is it an issue that originates with the power supply? All input greatly appreciated to help me hear the magic happen.
-
As for the Wima's, it would be two per channel, so for a 2-channel amp, it would be four total or a quad. 3.3uF is recommended per the TI data sheet for 26dB gain. This yields an input impedance of 30kohm, which is fine for my system.
You need two 6.6uf two yield 3.3uf , when paralleling caps. Two 3.3uf will be seen as 1.65uf to the circuit as fas as corner freqjuency goes. That's how that works.
-
Hi all,
I just got a few days ago a YJ blue/black board after stumbling on the discussion here. I rigged it up in temporary setup with stepped attenuator on input for listening prior to modding. Sounds promising so far, apart from a really bothersome hiss coming through the speakers. At the moment this makes the amp a disappointment to me - impossible to use nearfield on computer, but can still hear the hiss seated about 15ft away. Using 87db-ish full range 4 inch speakers (DIY).
I read that reducing the gain to 20db might help (which I will do) but wondered if anyone could comment on other solutions and whether my board is perhaps worse than the average or if this is just a factor with this chip? Is it an issue that originates with the power supply? All input greatly appreciated to help me hear the magic happen.
Somethings amiss. All my TPA's are silent even with HE speakers.
-
You need two 6.6uf two yield 3.3uf , when paralleling caps. Two 3.3uf will be seen as 1.65uf to the circuit as fas as corner freqjuency goes. That's how that works.
The TPA31xx amps have differential inputs, positive and negative, per channel. Referring to the Texas Instruments data sheet, I am using a single 3.3 cap on each input to establish a cut-off frequency of 1.6Hz for 26dB gain.
Hi all,
I just got a few days ago a YJ blue/black board after stumbling on the discussion here. I rigged it up in temporary setup with stepped attenuator on input for listening prior to modding. Sounds promising so far, apart from a really bothersome hiss coming through the speakers. At the moment this makes the amp a disappointment to me - impossible to use nearfield on computer, but can still hear the hiss seated about 15ft away. Using 87db-ish full range 4 inch speakers (DIY).
I read that reducing the gain to 20db might help (which I will do) but wondered if anyone could comment on other solutions and whether my board is perhaps worse than the average or if this is just a factor with this chip? Is it an issue that originates with the power supply? All input greatly appreciated to help me hear the magic happen.
Can you post a photo of your setup? Like Poultrygeist mentioned, something must be amiss for you to experience RFI.
-
Sure, photo below. Please don't judge too harshly, like I said this was only so I could have a listen prior to changing caps, etc.
The hiss is not massive, but clearly audible and distracting over quiet passages of music. I heard mention of hiss a few times here and at Diyaudio, without anyone saying it was a much of a big deal. I guess I just got a duff board. I had a Sure TA2024 board once that hissed like crazy. I put it down to the implementation and moved on to TA2020 which I preferred. I've ordered an Audiobah board too, so hopefully that will be better when it arrives.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99932)
-
Sometimes touching up the solder joints on the thru-hole components helps. It may not make a difference, but tidying up the wiring might help too. Class D amps can emit RF energy, and the hope is that the LC filter on the outputs will suppress it.
-
Thanks - I'll give it a go. Cheers for taking the trouble to reply Rhing & Poultrygeist.
-
I just got a few days ago a YJ blue/black board after stumbling on the discussion here. I rigged it up in temporary setup with stepped attenuator on input for listening prior to modding. Sounds promising so far, apart from a really bothersome hiss coming through the speakers. At the moment this makes the amp a disappointment to me - impossible to use nearfield on computer, but can still hear the hiss seated about 15ft away. Using 87db-ish full range 4 inch speakers (DIY).
I get this, but only when my source is disconnected (or connected but powered down). If the source is connected and powered on (even if no sound is playing), there is no hiss that I can discern. This isn't a big deal to me, I just can't leave the amp powered on without the source being powered on as well. Better for my power bill that way. :)
Have you tested that attenuator on another device? Or, tried your 3116 without it? Maybe it has some wacky issue(s)?
-
I took the attenuator off an old gainclone that I haven't used for a couple of years, but that always worked fine. I'm fairly sure it isn't that.
I've tried 2 different 12v power supplies so far. I've got some spare parts with which I can knock up a 15v linear unregulated supply so will try that next. I reckon it will probably be a fault on the board though - I guess for the price you can expect a few duff ones.
By the way, I checked and the hiss is fairly constant with or without a source connected and/or playing.
-
The TPA31xx amps have differential inputs, positive and negative, per channel. Referring to the Texas Instruments data sheet, I am using a single 3.3 cap on each input to establish a cut-off frequency of 1.6Hz for 26dB gain.
Can you post a photo of your setup? Like Poultrygeist mentioned, something must be amiss for you to experience RFI.
I thought you meant two so you can use one in reverse orientation (can be beneficial).
-
I installed a set of the 10uH Coilcraft SER2915L-103KL nductors in my Yuan Jing blue amp, and I have to say the improvement was noticeable from the start. It's like a veil has been lifted and the amp has reached another level of transparency. It's difficult for me to make an apples-to-apples comparison to the Bourns 10uH inductors I've previously tried, since that amp was shipped off elsewhere. I will say that the current amp has a big, full bodied sound, and I haven't even upgraded the input caps yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99989)
These are some bulky inductors and I took my time planning how I was going to fit these on the Yuan Jing amp and in what order I was going to install them. I am please with how it looks even though it does look a bit different. Once this amp gets placed into an enclosure, I'll forget about it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99990)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99991)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99992)
One thing is sure, upgrading the inductors adds a higher degree of clarity and transparency to this amp. It's almost like I don't have anything between my phono stage and line stage and my speakers except gain.
The S.M.S.L. SA-36 Pro TPA3118D2 is on it's way. It's cleared the San Francisco USPS sorting center, so I should receive it this Tuesday or Wednesday. I am looking forward to comparing these amps. The S.M.S.L. could be the big surprise.
-
Wow Rhing, special admiration for the soldering of these coils, i think you kept DCR intact (ultralow) by keeping contact beautifull level and minimum solderthickness. I believe 1mm solderthickness could increase DCR 4times, thats how low these DCR ratings of this coil are. Now handle with extreme care not to have the weight pull off the pcbtraces, or do they look heavier then they are?
Very interested in your opinion about the SMSL. I ordered a 3116 board with remotecontrol and display, which could be worst on market SQ wise. And once again not from ebay, so keeping my fingers crossed:)
-
Thanks. The Coilcraft inductors are on the board very solidly. For the two inner inductors, I did my best to insure the leads were bent to make the best possible contact with the solder pads. I even applied some masking tape to my needle nose pliers to protect the joint surface from getting scratched when I bent the leads. I use Cardas quad-eutectic solder, which has served me well over many projects. To solder these on properly, you really need a good 40 watt iron with a narrow neck and a small chisel tip to be able to get into the tight spaces without scorching adjacent components and rapidly heat up the joint. The Copper coils in the inductors work like a heat sink, so you need to be able to transfer heat quickly before the coils start to conduct heat away from the solder joint. Once the coils were secured, I re-touched the joints one at a time to get them nice and shiny--I hate cold solder joints.
I think I read somewhere that eBay seller hiamplifier is willing to sell the Yuan Jing blue amp boards without the stock inductors. This would be a good deal if you want to add your own. For that matter, it would be great if hiamplifier is willing to sell completely blank boards.
This is the best I've heard these TPA3116 amps sound. I have to go off memory on how the Bourns inductors sound, and I am clearly hearing more of the music. The amp is very tonally balanced from top to bottom. In fact, the bass is more defined and the treble is sweet and less forward. The soundstage is deep with a focused imaged. I thought the TDK and Panasonic OSCON caps really made a huge improvement, and these inductors have taken this amp to another level of performance. If I stopped now with the mods, I would be pleased, but I think installing the 3.3uF Wima MKP10 film caps on the inputs will be another improvement. For now, I'm in vinyl heaven spinning LP after LP.
-
How about boards with chips n sinks... I don't have any desire to solder the itty bitty chip leads; especiaally since there's no mods to be had hear, the heatsink is adequate too. May as well have the couple non-signal smd parts too.
-
What do you think about putting a glob of epoxy like JB Weld over each of the inductor solder contacts to further reinforce the connection? Might be overkill, but for example, if you ever shipped it (listening tour version 2?) it might need safeguarding against ham-handed shippers. (I'm sure we've all seen the videos of UPS/FedEx employees caught in the act, making that scene in Ace Ventura a little less comedic, and more like documentary).
Or maybe you could JB weld "flanges" to the bottom of the PCB, effectively increasing the width of the PCB, given those inductors something to "rest" on, and relieve the torque on the solder joint.
<shrug> Just throwing out random ideas.
-
That's not a bad idea. I think I'd rather go with a non-conductive adhesive to avoid the possibility of connecting the inductor housings to the ground plane. A few dabs of Silicone adhesive or hot melt adhesive should be sufficient since these inductors are solidly on the pads.
-
Blue and black boards only have one per input. Which is all you need for single ended input. Balanced requires two.
I thought you meant two so you can use one in reverse orientation (can be beneficial).
They have 2 input caps per channel like all 311x pcb's, unfortunately they are not identical but differ in physical size, like the SMSL amp. Might be contributing to pop.
-
hiamplifier is selling board without components, just not the YJ board:)
looks so easy, soldering a chip like tpa :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY)
-
If you read the paper on the 3116 boards it specifically says that the ground from single ended signal goes straight to ground. Furthermore there's only one pin on the blue and black board for ground. That's why they use cheaper caps, there's no signal.
I don't care if it is "easy" to solder SMD stuff, I don't like to, and it's zero effort for them, and it takes a youtube video for me (by comparison, been doing it before youtube videos).
-
If you read the paper on the 3116 boards it specifically says that the ground from single ended signal goes straight to ground. Furthermore there's only one pin on the blue and black board for ground. I'm pretty sure I followed the traces and it's just one signal through one cap to the chip.
LINN and RINN, in single ended operation are connected to ground via a capacitor, but there's no signal.
There's no reason to change them. They are grounded out, and the caps is probably just to prevent DC.
I don't care if it is "easy" to solder SMD stuff, I don't like to, and it's zero effort for them, and it takes a youtube video for me (by comparison, been doing it before youtube videos).
There is no changing 2 caps but changing 4 caps
Literally:
To use the TPA31xxD2 family
with a single-ended source, ac ground the negative input through a capacitor equal in value to the input capacitor
on positive and apply the audio source to either input. In a single-ended input application, the unused input
should be ac grounded at the audio source instead of at the device input for best noise performance. For good
transient performance, the impedance seen at each of the two differential inputs should be the same.
The impedance seen at the inputs should be limited to an RC time constant of 1 ms or less if possible. This is to
allow the input dc blocking capacitors to become completely charged during the 10 ms power-up time. If the input
capacitors are not allowed to completely charge, there will be some additional sensitivity to component matching
which can result in pop if the input components are not well matched.
(http://www.61ic.com/Article/UploadFiles_0637/201207/20120706140142554.gif)
-
I think I read somewhere that eBay seller hiamplifier is willing to sell the Yuan Jing blue amp boards without the stock inductors. This would be a good deal if you want to add your own. For that matter, it would be great if hiamplifier is willing to sell completely blank boards.
I stand corrected. A buddy of mine had contacted Yuan Jing and asked if they would sell the blue amp board without the inductors. They were willing to do so if my friend bought two boards.
-
Thanks Kant. You could have just said LINN and RINN need matched impedance grounding caps to the signal input capacitors.
-
These amps sure seem to have a lot of veils being lifted. How many layers of veils can a amp have and still be considered a good amp? :green:
-
These amps sure seem to have a lot of veils being lifted. How many layers of veils can a amp have and still be considered a good amp? :green:
I think there's another layer yet. At least no one can say were biased because we paid $$$$$ so of course we think its amazing etc.
@ rhing: I'm thinking that rc filter off the avcc pin tweak mentioned at diyAudio may be worth investigating. Maybe that's what the TBI secret RX filter is related to.
And I'd be willing to pitch in a little money for a full modded version for a tour if someone else builds. I no longer have the time.
-
@ rhing: I'm thinking that rc filter off the avcc pin tweak mentioned at diyAudio may be worth investigating. Maybe that's what the TBI secret RX filter is related to.
And I'd be willing to pitch in a little money for a full modded version for a tour if someone else builds. I no longer have the time.
I read about that AVCC pin tweak on diyAudio.com too. I might post on the Texas Instruments forum to see if they might comment on that.
I would be willing to donate my time to building another amp. In fact, I would donate the second YJ blue amp I have that is stock with the exception of the 470uF/35V Panasonic FM caps in the power supply decoupling positions. I would only be willing to do this if enough people are interested and can supply the other parts. Otherwise, I'll spend my time and money on other projects.
-
I read about that AVCC pin tweak on diyAudio.com too. I might post on the Texas Instruments forum to see if they might comment on that.
I would be willing to donate my time to building another amp. In fact, I would donate the second YJ blue amp I have that is stock with the exception of the 470uF/35V Panasonic FM caps in the power supply decoupling positions. I would only be willing to do this if enough people are interested and can supply the other parts. Otherwise, I'll spend my time and money on other projects.
Check your PM.
-
More toys in the attic...
I just received the S.M.S.L. SA-36A Pro TPA3118 today and hooked it up in my system. Even though it came with a 12VDC/3.8A brick-type SMPS, I connected it to my upgraded Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply. I will listen to it more and report on the sound quality and how it compares to my other TPA31xx amps:
- Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 2.0 blue amp, near stock (only swapped in 470uF/35V Panasonic FM caps in for stock 1,000uF/25V Nichicon PW power supply decoupling caps)
- Modified Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 2.0 blue amp
- Modified Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp
As with my S.M.S.L. SA-S1 TA2020 T-amp, which I sold to a friend, this is a very attractive amp inside a nice Aluminum enclosure. I haven't opened up the hood yet. Just playing music and letting the amp settle in before I do some critical listening this evening (I want to catch the NBA playoffs too).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100082)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100083)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100084)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100085)
-
I think hot glue would be better than jb weld, for securing inductors. Versions of it have been used in electronics for decades.
-
More toys in the attic...
I just received the S.M.S.L. SA-36A Pro TPA3118 today and hooked it up in my system. Even though it came with a 12VDC/3.8A brick-type SMPS, I connected it to my upgraded Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply. I will listen to it more and report on the sound quality and how it compares to my other TPA31xx amps:
- Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 2.0 blue amp, near stock (only swapped in 470uF/35V Panasonic FM caps in for stock 1,000uF/25V Nichicon PW power supply decoupling caps)
- Modified Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 2.0 blue amp
- Modified Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp
As with my S.M.S.L. SA-S1 TA2020 T-amp, which I sold to a friend, this is a very attractive amp inside a nice Aluminum enclosure. I haven't opened up the hood yet. Just playing music and letting the amp settle in before I do some critical listening this evening (I want to catch the NBA playoffs too).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100082)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100083)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100084)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100085)
I'm looking forward to your comparison with your other amps. I purchased the same amp a couple of weeks ago and had a short listen with it before shipping it off with my daughter and a Pure i20 dock. I was very impressed for the money and it sounded much better in her small carpeted living room than in my place.
I got mine with the 24v supply, any reason you opted for the 12v instead?
Greg
-
I'm not even using the stock power supply. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm using my upgraded Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply. I have modified Klipsch Forte Ii speakers and they are 98dB efficient, so 12VDC is plenty of power for my listening needs.
-
Wanted to say cheers to the guys who suggested things to try to stop my blue/black board from hissing. I touched up some solder joints, tidied/twisted my wiring, and swapped the stepped attenuator for an old potentiometer. The hissing is almost inaudible now!
Possibly even better is that the turn-on pop seems to have vanished. It was scarily loud before to the point where I was thinking even if I fixed the hiss this amp was not going to get much use. Now I get a small ticking sound on powering down and nothing at all on powering up. No idea why.
Enthused, I swapped the inductors for some aircore ones I took off a Charlize board that I fried a few years ago with too much fiddling. I also swapped the onboard caps for some 100uF Black Gate "N" and put 1500uF Panasonic FC at the power input to the board. These were all preused bits that have been hanging around, not chosen to be ideal. Had to put the BG's on the underside of the board 'cos the leads were too short and couldn't get the iron round them on top.
Sounds OK so far, alhough the hissing has come back a tiny bit (nowhere near so bad). I suspect this may be because I snaked a bare wire around the board to connect the inductor shields to the ground input. I guess these amps are just hugely susceptible to RFI (or to hamfisted modders who don't really know what they are doing!).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100091)
-
What is the function of the extra contact on the inductors?
-
The extra contact on the inductors goes to a piece of copper foil that surrounds the coil on the inside of the heatshrink. If I remember the thinking correctly then aircores need this shielding more than other types. I believe it is intended to connect to ground.
Keeps garbage in or keeps garbage out? I can't quite remember but probably both. I may have used it incorrectly and am open to being put right. Just fancied joining the party (swapping the inductors on the stock board) and these were handy. I remember the folks at Diyparadise liking the aircores with TA2020 so thought it worth a try.
Not got the amp on my good speakers yet, but with some fairly average ones it sounds very impressive so far - certainly better than stock. The caps have not been used for ages though so will not be at their best for a while.
:)
-
dboy,
You are probably better off taking that shielding ground wire off since it doesn't appear to be connected to ground anyway. As for hiss, air core inductors are notorious for radiating RFI and they are generally not recommended for audio applications. However, they can provide pleasing sonic results as long as the RFI isn't an issue. If the hiss isn't an issue and the sound quality meets your satisfaction, then stick with the air core inductors.
-
I've been following this interesting thread for some time. I'm wondering what you guys think about the cheap $50 tube pre's that some guys are pairing with these amps. To me it seems the pre has to be very limited in it's sonic qualities, in a way that the tiny amps are not. I enjoy my T amps and I don't find them very limiting even in my main system. I sincerely doubt those little pre amps would fare so well. It seems a bit dubious when on another forum guys rave about these little Chinese pairings 'blowing everything else out of the water'. I just can't imagine that to be accurate. The amps alone, possibly so. The Pre just seems to be a limiting factor for the amp. What are your thoughts or findings?
-
Thanks rhing - the wire is connected to ground but the photo does not show this (inductor in the way). I took the wire off the side of the board and to the bottom of the screw terminal where gnd/0v enters the board. I figured this would give it the best chance of not polluting the circuit - especially if I connect 0v to mains earth at my power supply.
It does actually sound very good and hiss is not a problem now. I can just hear some if I put my ear up to the speaker, but not like before when it really intruded on the music. I'll try disconnecting the wire for comparison when it seems the caps have settled in a bit. I'm expecting the sound to change anyway over the next few days so would be hard to compare.
I should have changed the caps and the inductors on separate occasions to properly monitor the effect. But anyway, before the mods I could definitely hear the 'harsh highs' I read about. Now everything sounds pretty sweet. I've not had chance to listen much but I'm hearing a very delicate touch with acoustic instruments and extremely natural voices.
I've got a Buffalo Dac I made a few years ago with digital volume control, Paul Hynes Regs and just an isolation transformer as the output stage. Sounds bloody marvellous. A member on Diyaudio wrote about replacing the caps on the input of the 3116 with an isolation transformer. I don't think the impedance match is ideal, but I'm tempted to try taking the caps off the front of the 3116 and connecting to the Buffalo output transformers directly. Haven't quite worked up the courage to try this yet, but it is simmering at the back of my mind.
-
Like Fred, I'm also tube-pre-curious. The approach to DIY that I picked up over the last few years says don't stick anything in the signal path if you don't need it. But those tube-preamps look so pretty and everyone loves 'em!
Surely they can't add clarity to an existing signal... just degrade it in a way that sounds kinda nice?
-
Thanks rhing - the wire is connected to ground but the photo does not show this (inductor in the way). I took the wire off the side of the board and to the bottom of the screw terminal where gnd/0v enters the board. I figured this would give it the best chance of not polluting the circuit - especially if I connect 0v to mains earth at my power supply.
It does actually sound very good and hiss is not a problem now. I can just hear some if I put my ear up to the speaker, but not like before when it really intruded on the music. I'll try disconnecting the wire for comparison when it seems the caps have settled in a bit. I'm expecting the sound to change anyway over the next few days so would be hard to compare.
I should have changed the caps and the inductors on separate occasions to properly monitor the effect. But anyway, before the mods I could definitely hear the 'harsh highs' I read about. Now everything sounds pretty sweet. I've not had chance to listen much but I'm hearing a very delicate touch with acoustic instruments and extremely natural voices.
I've got a Buffalo Dac I made a few years ago with digital volume control, Paul Hynes Regs and just an isolation transformer as the output stage. Sounds bloody marvellous. A member on Diyaudio wrote about replacing the caps on the input of the 3116 with an isolation transformer. I don't think the impedance match is ideal, but I'm tempted to try taking the caps off the front of the 3116 and connecting to the Buffalo output transformers directly. Haven't quite worked up the courage to try this yet, but it is simmering at the back of my mind.
You should read the Texas Instruments datasheet for the TPA31xx Class D amplifiers.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf)
You'll read on pages 15 and 16 that the differential inputs are biased at 3VDC, which could spell disaster for your speakers if you remove the input capacitors that also block DC. You can try using your Buffalo DAC outputs, but you must have amp input caps for DC blocking.
Like Fred, I'm also tube-pre-curious. The approach to DIY that I picked up over the last few years says don't stick anything in the signal path if you don't need it. But those tube-preamps look so pretty and everyone loves 'em!
Surely they can't add clarity to an existing signal... just degrade it in a way that sounds kinda nice?
Not sure where you picked up that misinformation. Bad circuits and poor implementation of circuits, good or bad, are what can degrade sound quality. I don't have one of those tube preamps, but many have reported improvements, especially when rolling in better tubes.
-
I've been following this interesting thread for some time. I'm wondering what you guys think about the cheap $50 tube pre's that some guys are pairing with these amps. To me it seems the pre has to be very limited in it's sonic qualities, in a way that the tiny amps are not. I enjoy my T amps and I don't find them very limiting even in my main system. I sincerely doubt those little pre amps would fare so well. It seems a bit dubious when on another forum guys rave about these little Chinese pairings 'blowing everything else out of the water'. I just can't imagine that to be accurate. The amps alone, possibly so. The Pre just seems to be a limiting factor for the amp. What are your thoughts or findings?
I consider the high gain a limiting factor.
-
I consider the high gain a limiting factor.
+1
ebayseller hiamplifier has an informative schematic for connecting the 3 tube ~23dB gain preamp :wink: (find the D-amp)
buffer or low gain might help, a drv134 unbalanced to balanced with 6dB gain might be interesting, any experiences here?
-
You'll read on pages 15 and 16 that the differential inputs are biased at 3VDC, which could spell disaster for your speakers if you remove the input capacitors that also block DC. You can try using your Buffalo DAC outputs, but you must have amp input caps for DC blocking.
You are correct of course. It perhaps cannot be done easily with this board. Diyaudio member Sharpi did it with the balanced inputs on an Audiobah board (which I have on order). The idea is that because both balanced inputs are biased at 3v the transformer sees no potential difference between them.
The balanced outputs of the ES9018 on my Buffalo dac are also biased at a certain voltage, but because the bias is equally present on both they can be connected directly to the transformer without incident. Gnd is not connected.
Not sure where you picked up that misinformation. Bad circuits and poor implementation of circuits, good or bad, are what can degrade sound quality. I don't have one of those tube preamps, but many have reported improvements, especially when rolling in better tubes.
Well, it was a question rather than a statement so does not really count as misinformation. I was simply explaining the doubt in my own mind about the effect the tube pre-amp could have, while also acknowledging my curiosity and openness to information.
I am no expert at electronics. My PhD. is in a branch of philosophy. To me the question was vaguely philosophical - can adding a whole new circuit (with input and output capacitors, etc.) add new information (clarity) to the signal without actually retrieving new information from the audio recording? Obviously there is impedance matching that can be improved, but other than this I am not clear what can be added to the audio signal that is not a distortion of that signal.
I mean no disrespect. I was and am curious and open-minded. 8)
-
....It perhaps cannot be done easily with this board. Diyaudio member Sharpi did it with the balanced inputs on an Audiobah board (which I have on order)....
For green Audiobah board you have SMD ceramics going to ground, for blue/black you have through hole film caps going to ground. You need to break that, so desoldering SMD parts a bit or cutting groundplane contact around them, or desoldering filmcap to free 1 leg (to wire directly), both not very hard but I think most would say blue/black was more appealing to them.
-
Thanks Markvdv - you are right. I had not properly done my homework when I wrote that, just noted that specific instructions had been given for doing it on the Audiobah board.
I have now had chance to connect my modified blue/black board to the output transformers of the Buffalo Dac with no potentiometer but with the caps still in the circuit. Unfortunately there is an annoying background hum coming through. Time for more homework I guess. :?
-
You mean Audiobah board comes with instructions? Does it come with schematic indicating what SMD's are used? That could be reason not to replace all parts I mean, although..chinese fake many parts, so faking a BOM is probably too tempting.
-
Ha ha! No, i meant that Sharpi provided instructions on Diyaudio for using an isolating transformer instead of the input caps. :lol: He specified what to solder and where on that board. Idiot-proof instructions are what I like, and even then it takes me a while to build up to an audacious plot like this.
-
Oh ok. So you removed the inputcaps completely
-
No - sorry if I was unclear. I have not done that yet. I removed the potentiometer and connected the Blue/Black's L in, R in and Gnd to the Buffalo's output transformers. The Buffalo has a firmware volume control so I can get the pot out of the signal path. I have kept the caps in so far as I like to work up to big changes gradually and to feel like I know what I am doing. So far I don't feel very confident or knowledgable with these boards.
Anyway, there was a hum coming through the speakers even with the caps in, so I have not proceeded to remove them.
I had a hum problem before once with the Buffalo. I used to use a biascap modded TA2020 board (i.e. no input caps!) with the Buffalo. At first I had a Paul Hynes Regulator on the power supply of this. It sounded marvellous with other sources, but with the Buffalo/output transformers there was a hum. I never really got to the bottom of why, but when I changed the power supply of the TA2020 to one based on a Bybee Music Rail the hum vanished. And the sound was (& is) pretty sublime with that setup. I'm intrigued now by the possibility that the TPA3116 might offer me a step-up in performance from this setup.
I don't know whether anyone here has tried a Bybee Music Rail with the TPA3116? They are pricey but made a truly fantastic power supply for my TA2020. I don't want to take mine out of that amp, so am waiting for a new one to arrive from Parts Connexion to try with TPA3116. Just add them on to a linear supply made with transformer, diode bridge and smoothing cap. They reduce noise on your power lines apparently, but also have very low output impedance, which is possibly the key factor. Might be worth a try as an alternative to the regulated supplies that seem popular here? I'll let you know when I get mine.
Sorry for waffling on! :)
-
I've been following this interesting thread for some time. I'm wondering what you guys think about the cheap $50 tube pre's that some guys are pairing with these amps. To me it seems the pre has to be very limited in it's sonic qualities, in a way that the tiny amps are not. I enjoy my T amps and I don't find them very limiting even in my main system. I sincerely doubt those little pre amps would fare so well. It seems a bit dubious when on another forum guys rave about these little Chinese pairings 'blowing everything else out of the water'. I just can't imagine that to be accurate. The amps alone, possibly so. The Pre just seems to be a limiting factor for the amp. What are your thoughts or findings?
As I sit here listening to my YJ 3 tube pre, and my stock TPA3116 blue board, I am truly mesmerized by this pair. The TPA amps are way better than any T-Amp I have heard, especially with simple mods. The 3 tube pre just makes everything so much better!
I can't say this pair blows everything out of the water as I don't have anything better to compare it to, but I will say I agree with what others have said that the SQ from the 3 tube pre paired with the TPA3116 brings tears to my eyes. The 3 tube pre-amp is definitely not a limiting factor for the amp, it's an improvement for sure.
These things are cheap enough, why not take the plunge and try the combo yourself?
-
dboy, I can give you information to try a better linear PSU, with or without Bybee Music Rail. The cost isn't free though, but less than $200. PM if you like.
-
I haven't tried a "good'' powersupply yet. Improving a $15 brick with a $70 filter could work, but I feel I'd better try like a $100 supply first.
-
dboy, I can give you information to try a better linear PSU, with or without Bybee Music Rail. The cost isn't free though, but less than $200. PM if you like.
Do you mean that the information will cost $200 or the power supply itself? :o If it is the first then I must be giving off the wrong signals. If it is the second then could you perhaps post the details for everyone?
I haven't tried a "good'' powersupply yet. Improving a $15 brick with a $70 filter could work, but I feel I'd better try like a $100 supply first.
Sure, only a suggestion - I will try it myself and report. These Bybee Music Rails do seem contentious to DIY folks (those who have not tried them anyway). I tried one when they were on special offer at Parts Connexion a few years back. Sounded about as good with a Black-Gated Charlize TA2020 amp as my Paul Hynes PR3Gap regulator (i.e. fantastic) but for less money. I have not tried it with a brick. I built a linear supply with a toroidal transformer, soft recovery diode bridge and a Mundorf capacitor. Expensive parts if you have to buy them in, but not many of them to get great sound. Still C&C overall! The $100 supply will be made with cheaper parts and you pay a company to build it for you and put it in a box, etc. Such pre-made stuff will be made to a price-point including hefty mark-up. Make it yourself and you can spend the money on better quality parts. But I have not tried those boxed-up regulated supplies so cannot say for certain which sounds better, only offering my limited experience/perspective.
Edit: P.S. If a regulated supply is definitely the way forward then I can only say good things about Paul Hynes, who has a circle here on Audiocircle, makes great products and was incredibly generous with his time supporting me with the installation of his regulators in my Buffalo.
-
Just a note that Salis is following site policy for Industry Participants by not discussing his business matters in the community circles, thus the PM request.
-
Well it is sale time again at partconnex, so they are a little less costly. Bybee does use fancy marketing language alot and sells some mysterious parts for very very high prices. The music rails are less mystical and cost less.
I am not sure if building a smps myself would be wise LOL so for better SMPS I definitely will buy a finished pcb. Funny most people immediatly think of linear when thinking of better. A linear supply will be easier to diy.
-
Just a note that Salis is following site policy for Industry Participants by not discussing his business matters in the community circles, thus the PM request.
Ahhh... Salis, please excuse my ignorance. Thanks for your offer, but I cannot afford to throw $200 at this at the moment, especially after ordering the M.R.
Well it is sale time again at partconnex, so they are a little less costly. Bybee does use fancy marketing language alot and sells some mysterious parts for very very high prices. The music rails are less mystical and cost less.
If considering it, I would get the 15A ones to use on an amp, even an efficient Class D. Someone else might want to chime in here, but I'm not sure the 2A ones will be enough. I couldn't see a reduced price on the '15A positive'.
You are very right about other Bybee products (which I am neither rich nor daft enough to consider). If you Google around on the Music Rails then there is a pretty good buzz from people who have tried them. I only tried mine in one circuit and it is staying there.
-
As I sit here listening to my YJ 3 tube pre, and my stock TPA3116 blue board, I am truly mesmerized by this pair. The TPA amps are way better than any T-Amp I have heard, especially with simple mods. The 3 tube pre just makes everything so much better!
I can't say this pair blows everything out of the water as I don't have anything better to compare it to, but I will say I agree with what others have said that the SQ from the 3 tube pre paired with the TPA3116 brings tears to my eyes. The 3 tube pre-amp is definitely not a limiting factor for the amp, it's an improvement for sure.
These things are cheap enough, why not take the plunge and try the combo yourself?
I probably am going to fix up a blue board. It's just that I don't really need one. But playing with one, especially the price, sounds good. My experience with tube preamps has been, you get what you pay for. The little amps hit way above their price point, I know having had them in my system, but it seems that to get the best out of them, a better pre than those little cheapies would be best. However, I'm definitely deferring to your experience.
One thing I noticed with both the Dayton and Topping amps was that they did sound a little less veiled without a pre at all.
-
Just curious if anyone is having heat issues (thermal shut down) with modules and/or evaluation boards.....
Sound-wise, is there a clear winner for low-cost DIY Class-D?
If you have questions about Class-D in general, I'm open. I've been designing Class-D amps since the 1980s, and it's so nice to see them getting more and more acceptance for high performance applications! Thanks, and have a great weekend.
-Tommy O
-
I was referring to parts, by the way.
These little guys really open up with nice power (and if you want any bass you need capacitance). Those used Aston units seem like a pretty good route. I looked up the schematic, and while it's excessive, it doesn't use some of the forms of voltage regulation I would utterly say no to.
-
The little amps hit way above their price point, I know having had them in my system, but it seems that to get the best out of them, a better pre than those little cheapies would be best.
I see your point that these little amps hit way above their price point, and when paired with a better pre, they have much more potential. What I was trying to say is the cheap $20 blue amp (now $14.75) is pretty amazing, and truly "Cheap and Cheerful" However, I feel the same about the 3 tube pre. I think it also hits above its price point, but you are correct, the amp has much more to offer with a better pre in front than the cheapie 3 tube pre has to offer a good power amp.
-
3.3uF/160V Wima MKP10 caps are on the inputs. Stay tuned...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100257)
-
I see your point that these little amps hit way above their price point, and when paired with a better pre, they have much more potential. What I was trying to say is the cheap $20 blue amp (now $14.75) is pretty amazing, and truly "Cheap and Cheerful" However, I feel the same about the 3 tube pre. I think it also hits above its price point, but you are correct, the amp has much more to offer with a better pre in front than the cheapie 3 tube pre has to offer a good power amp.
Thanks, you said that a lot better than I asked it.
-
I've been following this interesting thread for some time. I'm wondering what you guys think about the cheap $50 tube pre's that some guys are pairing with these amps. To me it seems the pre has to be very limited in it's sonic qualities, in a way that the tiny amps are not. I enjoy my T amps and I don't find them very limiting even in my main system. I sincerely doubt those little pre amps would fare so well. It seems a bit dubious when on another forum guys rave about these little Chinese pairings 'blowing everything else out of the water'. I just can't imagine that to be accurate. The amps alone, possibly so. The Pre just seems to be a limiting factor for the amp. What are your thoughts or findings?
The killer pre for these little amps is the IFI Micro Itube with an Astron SL11A PS running at 9V. I know this will set you back $299 for the Itube and $115 for the Astron, but after you hear this combo you will wonder why buy anything else. It has huge soundstage, great holographic imaging, and very smooth and organic SQ. This combo will send chills up your spine.
Just ask tailspinrex and rodge827 here on AC. They will verify.
-
I haven't tried a "good'' power supply yet. Improving a $15 brick with a $70 filter could work, but I feel I'd better try like a $100 supply first.
I know many here are probably skeptical about the Astron power supplies, I would be if I had never used one. But when this PS stomps a $500 King Rex PSU and a battery supply set-up, it is a serious contender over anything else being made today. And you an get a brand new Astron SL11A for $94 plus shipping from the company.
-
I consider the high gain a limiting factor.
The killer pre for these little amps is the IFI Micro Itube
Been thinking a lot about whether to try the 3 tube pre, despite the doubts I voiced earlier. The IFI Micro Itube seems to be a unity gain (or 6db) buffer rather than a pre-amp as such. Just before OzarkTom posted this I was looking at the (much cheaper) unity gain 6n3 buffer that YJ sell, wondering if it would bring the magic tube warmth / impedance matching / whatever-it-is that is making folks so happy when pairing it with the TPA3116, but without the unneeded extra gain.
It looks like the same board can also be bought cheaper on Ebay as a kit for you to solder yourself - making it easier to upgrade the quality of some key parts. I'm quite tempted as after trying different digital sources with my upgraded blue/black board I am coming around to the idea that the TPA3116 might like an active rather than passive stage preceeding it.
Any thoughts?
-
Been thinking a lot about whether to try the 3 tube pre, despite the doubts I voiced earlier. The IFI Micro Itube seems to be a unity gain (or 6db) buffer rather than a pre-amp as such. Just before OzarkTom posted this I was looking at the (much cheaper) unity gain 6n3 buffer that YJ sell, wondering if it would bring the magic tube warmth / impedance matching / whatever-it-is that is making folks so happy when pairing it with the TPA3116, but without the unneeded extra gain.
The Itube also has that 3D circuit that will make any system, regardless of price, more fun to listen to. Thorsten is considering on incorporating the circuit in his $25-35K signature Dac that he is currently working on.
-
Wow, always been thoroughly wary of things like that, but you do make it sound tempting. I wish I had more money and wasn't so hooked on some element of DIY in my projects! I'm in the UK and they seem to want much more for it over here than in the US.
-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3-5670-S3-Tube-Valve-Buffer-DIY-Kit-Stereo-/321081340125?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item4ac1f070dd (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N3-5670-S3-Tube-Valve-Buffer-DIY-Kit-Stereo-/321081340125?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item4ac1f070dd)
without tube and transformer $52
-
I know many here are probably skeptical about the Astron power supplies, I would be if I had never used one. But when this PS stomps a $500 King Rex PSU and a battery supply set-up, it is a serious contender over anything else being made today. And you an get a brand new Astron SL11A for $94 plus shipping from the company.
Astron only specs 115V, Motorola produced by Astron are 115V/230V, only if the socalled identical Astron comes with switchable transformer like the Motorolas have I could try them.
-
Markvdv, I was looking at Ebay item number 111348429781.
The tube buffer you linked seems to have some nicer components. Is it perhaps a better design in other ways?
-
Somebody adviced me that one if i want a good buffer AND was not looking for a tube-eq but just a good buffer. Haven't bought it yet. I did buy a tubebuffer with adjustable 0 to 6dB gain, tiny, probably worse :)
And today I did buy a medical smps powersupply, curious if it beats the brick. http://www.mascot.no/admin/common/getimg.asp?FileID=1059 (http://www.mascot.no/admin/common/getimg.asp?FileID=1059)
-
If we're talking tube kits I'd recommend Glassware over anything on ebay:
http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/acpcbandusgu.html
-
Looked at that one too, higher voltage, even better, very clean, but also little more expensive.
-
...kingrex $500 supply
Is this a customer request specification model or are kingrex models more expensive in USA then in Europe? Most of times here in Europe we pay more for all kind of electronics, would be fair if you guys pay a little more sometimes too :)
-
...kingrex $500 supply
Is this a customer request specification model or are kingrex models more expensive in USA then in Europe? Most of times here in Europe we pay more for all kind of electronics, would be fair if you guys pay a little more sometimes too :)
My mistake, the cost is $419.
http://www.moon-audio.com/kingrex-psu-mkii.html
-
Ok that one is converted to US$ $235 here in NL and $385 in UK. Our price here in NL seems way off then.
-
The killer pre for these little amps is the IFI Micro Itube with an Astron SL11A PS running at 9V. I know this will set you back $299 for the Itube and $115 for the Astron, but after you hear this combo you will wonder why buy anything else. It has huge soundstage, great holographic imaging, and very smooth and organic SQ. This combo will send chills up your spine.
Just ask tailspinrex and rodge827 here on AC. They will verify.
Yep, what Tom said! :D
With the addition of the Astron 11A modified (for free by Astron) to 9vdc, the iTube performance was raised considerably.
Deeper and fuller sound stage from top to bottom, front to back, and left to right. Subtle details are also more prevalent, not forward in your face prevalent, but as part of the recording. Such as mic bumps, piano string dampers, stage noise, tone decay, the difference between steel and nylon strung guitars, drum echo, singer's breaths, hall echo, emotional connection...
I run mine straight with the 0db setting without the 3D or Digital Antidote settings between a Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0 and TBI Millennia MG3 amp. Both the Dspeaker and TBI are powered by Astron 11A Linear power supplies.
I'm very happy with this set up, I took a leap of faith on the iTube and it paid off BIG. 8)
Chris
-
My Itube just got back Friday from being Cryo'd. I have my buddy Rex to listen to it first this weekend, and all he said was he now wanted his cryo'd. Rex did say it is much more liquid and magical sounding and the Itube was great before I sent it off. I cannot wait to get it back, if Rex will send it.
By now, everyone knows how much I enjoy listening to the TBI and how great a value it is, but I believe this Itube with the Astron power supply represents 2-3 times the value that the TBI is.
Now why does Rex have my Itube and I don't? :duh:
Almost forgot, Rex says that he now hears more of the hall echo than with his stock unit.
-
Is anybody here game to hook one of these to your TPA amp? :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200989265966&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
-
Is anybody here game to hook one of these to your TPA amp? :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200989265966&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Wow...
-
Question is how authentic are those caps...
-
14 Vdc connected to it would give total capacitance for board of 25.000uF? With 7 V over each individual 25.000uF capbank? Or how to connect DC ?
-
Got an Astron RS-12A. It does indeed open things up in a more 3D way. A little less oomph than the Meanwell but that's expected at half the power. Some tizziness in the treble but I think that's the very crappy Los Angeles power coming through, especially now that the weather's warm. The Meanwell was pretty good at handling that but does not have the same depth and sense of space. I would say definitely worth the $50 off ebay.
Will absolutely be modded, starting with the power plug...
-
Is anybody here game to hook one of these to your TPA amp? :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200989265966&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
Question is how authentic are those caps...
Here's a thread on the Gon where a guy is using them he jumps in in the middle...
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1401737341&read&3&zzlCeltic66
Chris
-
The way he connected total capacitance of this 100.000uF cap bank is <25.000 uF and each 35V capacitor never sees more then ~6V?
-
In working with these TPA31xx amps over the last several months, I've come to the conclusion that the DC power supply decoupling caps closest to the amp IC are very critical to the overall sound quality. In most Texas Instruments schematics for these amps, these are typically the 220uF/25V caps in parallel with a couple ceramic SMD caps.
With wushuliu's idea of using hybrid organic polymer-electrolytic caps on his Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 2.0 blue amp, I started trying 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON (formerly Sanyo OSCON) organic semiconductor in these amps. I've added these to my Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 blue amp and to my Sure Electronics TPA3110D2 amp, and in both cases, the sound quality was significantly improved with deeper, punchier bass, improved tonality in the mids and highs, a deeper soundstage and more focused imaging.
I opened up my S.M.S.L. SA-36A Pro TPA3118D2 amp and this little guy has the following caps inside:
- 2x 47uF/35V organic polymer cap, 8mm dia
- 8x 470uF/25V Panasonic M electrolytic caps, 10mm dia
- 4x Pilkor 680nF/450V MKP LC filter caps
- 2x 3.3uF/250V Epcos MKT film caps
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100531)
The amp sounds great, and I think it can be improved with replacing and removing some of the caps. It does have an annoying turn-off pop, but I think making the changes will reduce it. I've tried this amp with the stock 12VDC/3.8A SMPS brick that came with the amp and my upgraded Astron RS-12A. The difference is night and day. For someone looking for a complete TPA31xx amp, this little $50 amp could be the one, especially with an upgraded power supply.
Is anybody here game to hook one of these to your TPA amp? :o
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200989265966&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
I'm sure adding off-board capacitance helps, but that cap array from eBay is ridiculous. If anyone wants hyper-capacitance, then they should try one of those 1-5 Farad (yes, 1 Farad = 1,000,000 micro-Farads) car audio capacitors. There is a charging procedure associated with using these caps, and you'll read a whole bunch of raves about using them, but you'll also find some criticism about perceived vs. real benefits. Some of them have colorful LEDs to indicate charging status. :roll:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-DHgNAbydIsk/shopsearch/capacitor.html?awcp=1t2&awcr=28768559603&awdv=c&awkw=car%20audio%20capacitors&awmt=e&awnw=g (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-DHgNAbydIsk/shopsearch/capacitor.html?awcp=1t2&awcr=28768559603&awdv=c&awkw=car%20audio%20capacitors&awmt=e&awnw=g)
Got an Astron RS-12A. It does indeed open things up in a more 3D way. A little less oomph than the Meanwell but that's expected at half the power. Some tizziness in the treble but I think that's the very crappy Los Angeles power coming through, especially now that the weather's warm. The Meanwell was pretty good at handling that but does not have the same depth and sense of space. I would say definitely worth the $50 off ebay.
Will absolutely be modded, starting with the power plug...
Glad you like it. Not sure what caps are in your Astron RS-12A, but when I upgraded the old ones that were in mine, it made a profound improvement in the sound quality of my TPA31xx amps. I need to replace the hard-wired power cord with an IEC inlet and better power cable.
-
Not sure what caps are in your Astron RS-12A, but when I upgraded the old ones that were in mine, it made a profound improvement in the sound quality of my TPA31xx amps.
Did you go into detail on the upgrades to your Astron in an earlier post? If so, do you happen to have a handy link to that post? If not, would you be willing to detail them here? :)
I was previously powering my tpa311x amps with this $13 K-Tec 12V 2A Wall-Wart (http://www.parts-express.com/12-vdc-2000ma-2a-switching-power-supply-us-and-eu-25mm-plug--120-052)... util ya'll talked up the Astrons so much, I felt compelled to snag an RS-12A off ebay.
Well, I can't tell the difference between the el-cheapo K-Tec and the Astron. I've tried swapping PSUs on both the tpa3110 and tpa3116. I've tried both amps on two different sets of speakers now (recently swapped out my Overnight Sensations for a pair of Alpair 7.3eN-based speakers). I got to where I could actually swap PSUs quickly enough on my tpa3116 that the music didn't stop (that suggests the input power capacitance gives me about a 2-second buffer of power).
For kicks, I also tried powering the tpa3116 with the 20V Lithium battery pack that came with the string trimmer we recently bought. I also couldn't hear a difference with this (although I only did a quick test).
So I have some guesses on why I'm not hearing any differences:- My mains AC is clean. Since this is my desktop rig, I'm running off the UPS my computer is connected to: APC Back-UPS RS 1500VA (http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500&ISOCountryCode=us). Due to having this problem with my printer (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29041710-UPS-hums-from-laser-printer-fuser-no-its-not-plugged-in-to-it-), I know that at a minimum the UPS does voltage regulation. The product webpage also says something about filtering as well.
- My listening levels are so low (roughly 70 dba at around 1m) as to make quality input power less important.
- Since my Astron RS-12A was purchased used, I have no idea what kind of shape its in. I confirmed it puts out 13.8 VDC with my DMM, but haven't looked at its insides yet. It wasn't in pristine condition like Rhing's Craigslist find (yes, I'm jealous), but after being wiped off with a damp cloth, it looks respectable.
- My critical listening skills just aren't there.
What do you guys think?
-
Did you go into detail on the upgrades to your Astron in an earlier post? If so, do you happen to have a handy link to that post? If not, would you be willing to detail them here? :)
Matt, for my Astron RS-12A, this is what I upgraded:
Sangamo 17,000uF/30VDC electrolytic, ..........................Kemet PEH200MJ5220MB2
22mm lead spacing, 50mm dia x 100mm L
Elna 2,200uF/16V electrolytic........................... ..............Panasonic EEU-FM1C222
Elna 1,000uF/35V electrolytic........................... ..............Nichicon UKZ1H101MHM
For a DC power cable to connect the power supply to my TPA31xx amps, I use a DIY cable made from twisting a pair of 16 AWG Teflon insulated-Silver-plated, stranded Copper Mil-Spec wire terminated with a Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector. I wrapped the twisted pair in spiral-cut tubing and put TechFlex-type expandable sleeving over that. On the power supply end, I stick the bare wires into the thru-holes on the 5-way binding posts on the Astron's rear panel.
I don't know why you don't hear differences between power supplies. I don't listen to enormously loud levels either. I am not familiar with the speakers you mentioned. I have a pair of 98dB sensitive Klipsch Forte II speakers, which I've modded and upgraded. In my listening room, these floor standing speakers roll off around 35Hz and top out at 20kHz. My sources are a Sony ES NS999ES DVD/SACD/CD player and a vintage Kenwood PC-400U belt/idler wheel drive TT with a Talisman Alchemist IIB MC cartridge feeding an Audio Research PH5 tube phono stage. With my amps that are used as power amps, I use an Audio Research LS7 tube line stage.
I am not sure what your sources are, but I believe a system must be strong and properly matched from source to loudspeaker to get the right balance of sound. My man cave hasn't been perfectly set up, but I am satisfied with how my system interacts with the room. Perhaps, you need to tweak your listening environment. I've been to many audiophile homes and show rooms with very expensive equipment that had horrid sound, because the listening rooms and systems weren't properly set-up to work well together. Conversely, I've heard budget hifi systems sound great, because the system interacted so well with the listening room. I also work with live sound reinforcement and I don't have golden ears, but I have a good idea of what instruments and vocals should sound like and use that experience for voicing my system.
-
Don't forget about the Ten Tec 937 power supply. This is also made by Astron and does not come with a fixed power cord. The Pangea AC14 power cord fits right in.
-
The Pangea AC14 power cord fits right in.
Any difference +/- with the Pangea?
-
Don't forget about the Ten Tec 937 power supply. This is also made by Astron and does not come with a fixed power cord. The Pangea AC14 power cord fits right in.
Good point. Most of the newer production Astron power supplies have IEC power inlets, so you can use your power cord of choice. The older production units like mine had fixed power cords.
-
Any difference +/- with the Pangea?
I will try that this weekend if I am not too busy.
-
Good point. Most of the newer production Astron power supplies have IEC power inlets, so you can use your power cord of choice. The older production units like mine had fixed power cords.
My new 11A has IEC inlet. Here is a Ten Tec up for sale right now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-937-11amp-power-supply-/181426194869?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item2a3dd809b5
-
The Astron is taking the TPA to that 'set-like' performance...
-
Poultrygeist, is your greenboard the same as this one? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-TPA3116-Class-D-digital-amplifier-50W-50-W-with-Silent-Sleep-Design/1586764360.html
I received mine but cannot tell on the terminal of output (L&R) which is negative/positive. It is in Chinese and no label on the board. Emailed the seller but no response.
Green board with top cover removed is up and running. Excellent sound with the 3 tube preamp but less than spectacular with the solid state TC preamp.
No annoying on/off pop with this one. Can't say at this point if it's better or worse than the blue/black.
Having sampled all colors, they're all winners. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99927)
-
wired4sound, no your board isn't the same, but is your board green? (most are blue) doesn't matter btw, top of 4 point speaker connector is a plus for originally right speaker, but most chinese amps change that to left, the minus is below that, another channel plus beneath that one and finally a minus for speaker again, originally left but on chinese board probably right channel:)
if in doubt follow traces + right originally top output speaker connection like in picture ebay goes to third pin from top on chip (or 4th pin)
minus left channel = bottom speaker output should go to 4th or 5th pin on chip from bottom (in ebay picture)
If you want to be sure + is plus and - is minus, you have to check Input side of chip + and -, the chip doesn't care, handles both equally.
Pin 4 from top if you hold board equal to ebaypicture is right channel plus (signal) input side, and you should be able to follow that to inputsocket on pcb, pin 5 from top is negative/shield, again chinese don't follow this, and name it left.
On input side of chip 6th pin from bottom should be - negative/shield, 7th pin from bottom is + plus (signal) and should go to input pin on board
I wrote how TI chip connects inputs to outputs according to TI datasheet. If inputs are connected differently in real life on your PCB regarding plus and minus, output plus and minus changes too. Is not very likely, but never know:)
-
Ok I received the "made in norway" smps powersupply, size is identical to Dell 19.5V 10,8A brick. Just a black box with some parts, does look tidy:) Now I got to replace the bricks I use for 3116 and see if there is a difference in sound:)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100691)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100692)
-
Poultrygeist, is your greenboard the same as this one? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-1pc-TPA3116-Class-D-digital-amplifier-50W-50-W-with-Silent-Sleep-Design/1586764360.html
I received mine but cannot tell on the terminal of output (L&R) which is negative/positive. It is in Chinese and no label on the board. Emailed the seller but no response.
My board is from audiobah.
-
The Astron is taking the TPA to that 'set-like' performance...
What are the dimensions of the Astron? I'd consider one if it will fit inside a case.
-
What are the dimensions of the Astron? I'd consider one if it will fit inside a case.
Here is the Linear PS page from the Astron site,
http://www.astroncorp.com/linear.shtml
All of the different dimensions can be found there.
Chris
-
4.5" (H) x 8" (W) x 9" (D)
Keep in mind that the heat sinks on the rear of the case need full exposure to properly channel heat away from the Motorola transistors and the rest of the unit. Also note the 1/4" air gap between the top of the rear panel and the top of the enclosure. For safety purposes, I wouldn't have this in a home with small children.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100693)
-
What are the dimensions of the Astron? I'd consider one if it will fit inside a case.
If you heard what the Astron does for your TPA amp, you wont worry about putting it in a case.
Here is a Ten Tec that ends less than 24 hours and the bid is only $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-937-11amp-power-supply-/181426194869?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item2a3dd809b5
-
Here is a Ten Tec that ends less than 24 hours and the bid is only $20.
Picked one up on The Bay last weekend for $38+$17.50shp total was $55.
Good luck :D
-
Here is a 12A for $59 and free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astron-RS-12A-Power-Supply-Output-9-Amps-Continuous-13-8VDC-/291164119578?pt=2_Way_Radios_FRS&hash=item43cabbe21a
-
The Astron is taking the TPA to that 'set-like' performance...
How is the noise floor as compared to a battery?
Thanks,
Ed
-
How is the noise floor as compared to a battery?
Thanks,
Ed
Astron PSU beats the battery in every way.
-
I still had a couple 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps in my parts bin, so I decided to upgrade the power supply decoupling caps in my SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118D2 amp. As with my Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp and Sure Electronics TPA3110 amp, the improvement was significant. The amp sounds less analytical and more musical while still increasing the level of detail. The bass is tighter and the soundstage is more three dimensional with the image is more focused.
To upgrade the caps, I had to remove the board from the chassis, which meant breaking that small piece of foil seal tape that voids the warranty. Oh well. The board is nicely laid out, and I used this as an opportunity to add a touch of Cardas solder to most of the solder joints. Whatever solder SMSL uses doesn't flow at all. I had to add Cardas solder to get it to flow so I could use my Radio Shack solder sucking tool to clear out the thru-holes. I still had to use a medium-size safety pin to ream out the thru-holes to allow me to fit the OSCON leads through them.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100719)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100720)
These caps barely fit in between the inductors. Ideally, the 180uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps would have fit better since they are a bit smaller, but more capacitance and a slightly lower ESR of 14mohms are good things.
Eventually, I will replace the eight (8x) general purpose 470uF/25V Panasonic M electrolytic caps with better 680uF/25V Panasonic FM electrolytic caps with lower ESR and longer life.
-
Here is a 12A for $59 and free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astron-RS-12A-Power-Supply-Output-9-Amps-Continuous-13-8VDC-/291164119578?pt=2_Way_Radios_FRS&hash=item43cabbe21a
I just purchased this Tom,
Thanks!
Greg
-
Noisefloor is something interesting, combined with the 9522 mascot smps I am listening to today. The smps itself is 100% vibration and noise free, I connected it in place of 2 Indeed for audio bricks, it is shocking what the difference is. I just got a tubepreamp connected basicly to see how to improve that for use with tpa3116. It was quite noisy befor, remember it has its own linear psu!!! Replacing the Indeed bricks with the 9522 on tpa3116 totally changed the tubepre that was still connected to the tpa3116 and I had thought I needed to remove it from chain to seriously listen to tpa3116. Noise of tubepre has disappeared it seems, somewhat stressed high frequency respons of the tubepre is totally gone too, it seemed to compress the sound a bit, gone now. Is that transfered through AC from the bricks, or is it the 0V connection is so much cleaner now??? Shocking, tubepre was not close to hifi befor, changing another products psu made an unbelievable impact. At this time I am very close to feeling the tpa3116 with tubepre sounds better then ever befor solo, and coming from not even hifi status, that is shocking.
-
Welcome to the club!
-
Matt, for my Astron RS-12A, this is what I upgraded:
[ ... snip for brevity ... ]
Thanks for that. I see you posted before over in the cheap 12v linear power supply (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125533.msg1325691#msg1325691) thread, complete with pics. Sorry I didn't check that thread first!
Given the comments you made about the age of your Astron RS-12A, were your part changes truly "upgrades" or simply "maintenance" required because of the unit's vintage? In other words, would you expect your PSU to be on par with a brand-new one, or better? I haven't dated my RS-12A, but I suspect it's similarly old... it would probably benefit from a recap as well, although I'm thinking for convenience I might just buy a brand new unit.
For a DC power cable to connect the power supply to my TPA31xx amps, I use a DIY cable made from twisting a pair of 16 AWG Teflon insulated-Silver-plated, stranded Copper Mil-Spec wire terminated with a Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector. I wrapped the twisted pair in spiral-cut tubing and put TechFlex-type expandable sleeving over that. On the power supply end, I stick the bare wires into the thru-holes on the 5-way binding posts on the Astron's rear panel.
Probably wouldn't hurt for me to make a better power cable... the one I'm using is pretty thin (Detachable mini-plug kit #120-537 (http://www.parts-express.com/detachable-mini-plug-kit--120-537) for convenience).
I don't know why you don't hear differences between power supplies.
I am not sure what your sources are...
A picture says a thousand words:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100725)
Source is CD audio in FLAC format on computer. Optical SPDIF to a Cambridge Audio DACMagic (original), to tpa311x amp. Speaker cabs were built from a Slim Classic Golden Ratio (CGR) dMar-Ken7.3 (http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/CGR-dMar-Ken73-301113.pdf) flat pack Planet10 cut for me. Drivers are Markaudio Alpair 7.3 with Planet10's EnABLed process (http://www.planet10-hifi.com/driver-intro.html).
As you can see, this is a very nearfield setup. When I'm sitting at my desk, my ears are probably about 2 feet from the speakers, and listening around 60--65 dB. (The other side of that wall is my toddler's bedroom; I usually only get to listen when she's sleeping, so practical considerations force me to keep it down.) Today I had a bit of time to "crank it"... by my standards anyway, I had the music around 70--75 dB. (SPL measurements taken with an app on my phone---obviously not the last word in precision, but presumably the right ballpark.)
In this setup, I don't think the room dynamics should matter too much. Speakers are front-ported, and I'm very close to them.
Anyway, I kept going back and forth between the cheapie wall-wart and the Astron... I plugged the wall-wart straight into the AC outlet (to remove my UPS as a variable). I think I could hear some difference. It wasn't night and day. But to me, by analogy, the wall-wart was kind of like looking at a picture that is ever-so-slightly out of focus: you don't even notice that it's out of focus until you see the proper focus version. The Astron is the "proper focus" version, of course, some sounds were just a bit "crisper around the edges", so to speak.
I told my wife I want to close my eyes and have her switch (or not) power supplies randomly, and see if I could hear a difference. She sighed and rolled her eyes. ;)
I'm happy with the sound either way, though it is fun when something gets tweaked and the change is obvious and immediate. Aural considerations aside, I like that little wall-wart because it's more efficient (according to my Kill-a-Watt) and also physically small.
As soon as all the parts arrive, my next tpa3116 project will be for my living room rig. Everything is different: DAC, speakers, listening distance, etc---so it will give me another opportunity to audition different PSUs.
-
Nice desktop setup Matt. I don't use power conditioners. My multi-outlet strip is a heavy gauge Wire Mold strip that I had purchased on the recommendation of a Naim Audio. I do have a Furutech duplex wall outlet and I use decent, but not terribly expensive power cords from Zu Cable and Element Cable. Most of my interconnects are DIY tri-braided Mundorf Silver-Gold wire cables that are comparable to Kimber KCAG Silver interconnects. My phono cables are all based on shielded Cardas quad cable. I use Switchcraft Gold-plated Copper alloy RCA connectors in all my DIY interconnect cables. I mention all this, because I believe that cables can be the weakest link in any system.
I highly recommend that you replace the 22AWG power cable connecting your power supply to your TPA amp with something using at least high quality 18AWG to 16AWG wire. If you want something more energy efficient than the Astron RS-12A, then get a Mean Well 150 watt SMPS from Jameco Electronics and make a good DIY power supply using a good IEC AC inlet, Littelfuse fuse holder and Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm threaded DC power connector.
-
Very nice Matt! Those speakers will be great. I am very satisfied with an older Mark Audio type, strange thing is they really do keep improving with hours, and you can compare like me to other speakers in house to verify that.
12V PSU is like in caraudio, they have simple formula for size of DC wires I vaguely remember. I read your post about comparing the psu and power conditioner, I now feel that could be part of it. I did notice a lack of real low frequency with using one 6A instead of 2 6A bricks befor, I would think your 2A would also lack, but those frequencies might be impossible to hear anyway at 1 meter distance from speaker, not sure, I don't hear them close to my speaker, only when I get 3.5/4 meters from speakers, the distance could be room related too, but there on low level too (I don't listen loud) lowest frequencies went missing with one brick.
-
SMSL looks very interesting. So they actually seemed to have used the small smd elco's near inductors just for bypass/decoupling/filtering, too small for bulk reservoir function. Oscon replacement might actually be a little too expensive component for them to use as standard here, were the 47uF's Panasonic? Sales pic shows old style elco's.
There might be a PLIMIT circuitry there? What do you think ringh, there seem to be more then just 2 resistors for gainsetting, 2 more to pins there would be plimit, or are the extra resistors actually in signalpath left and right channel?
-
If you heard what the Astron does for your TPA amp, you wont worry about putting it in a case.
Here is a Ten Tec that ends less than 24 hours and the bid is only $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ten-Tec-937-11amp-power-supply-/181426194869?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Power_Supplies&hash=item2a3dd809b5
Now you all have me thinking of a smaller 3116 case that's more integrated with the Astron attaching from either the top ( piggy back style ), the bottom or maybe from the side.
-
Now you all have me thinking of a smaller 3116 case that's more integrated with the Astron attaching from either the top ( piggy back style ), the bottom or maybe from the side.
As another AC'er here said, the Astron gets fairly warm. You might not want your amp touching the Astron.
I see that Ten Tec 937 went for less than $45 including shipping. Did you get it?
-
As another AC'er here said, the Astron gets fairly warm. You might not want your amp touching the Astron.
I see that Ten Tec 937 went for less than $45 including shipping. Did you get it?
No.
The 3116 wouldn't be touching but residing in it's own small case attached to the Astron. With limited shelf space I lack room for big bricks hanging off the back or large separate power supplies.
-
Poultrygeist, I got the Ten Tec that you mentioned on ebay. Thanks for the tip. Not a bad price.
It is going to power my newly acquired 3118 amp.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html
With the stock power supply, I thought that the amp is good for the money, but not great. I'm very curious on how the Ten Tec will sound.
I'm running this amp with the volume control turned all the way up, since I've have a prreamp. Is there a possibility that the volume control causes degradation? Can and should it be bypassed? I have not opened the case yet to look inside to see if it is possible.
-
Thanks for the explanation. I was able to figure out the negative/positive on the terminal and the amp is now working great.
wired4sound, no your board isn't the same, but is your board green? (most are blue) doesn't matter btw, top of 4 point speaker connector is a plus for originally right speaker, but most chinese amps change that to left, the minus is below that, another channel plus beneath that one and finally a minus for speaker again, originally left but on chinese board probably right channel:)
if in doubt follow traces + right originally top output speaker connection like in picture ebay goes to third pin from top on chip (or 4th pin)
minus left channel = bottom speaker output should go to 4th or 5th pin on chip from bottom (in ebay picture)
If you want to be sure + is plus and - is minus, you have to check Input side of chip + and -, the chip doesn't care, handles both equally.
Pin 4 from top if you hold board equal to ebaypicture is right channel plus (signal) input side, and you should be able to follow that to inputsocket on pcb, pin 5 from top is negative/shield, again chinese don't follow this, and name it left.
On input side of chip 6th pin from bottom should be - negative/shield, 7th pin from bottom is + plus (signal) and should go to input pin on board
I wrote how TI chip connects inputs to outputs according to TI datasheet. If inputs are connected differently in real life on your PCB regarding plus and minus, output plus and minus changes too. Is not very likely, but never know:)
-
Poultrygeist, I got the Ten Tec that you mentioned on ebay. Thanks for the tip. Not a bad price.
It is going to power my newly acquired 3118 amp.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-sa-36a-pro-20wpc-tpa3118d2-digital-amplifier-power-adapter.html
With the stock power supply, I thought that the amp is good for the money, but not great. I'm very curious on how the Ten Tec will sound.
I'm running this amp with the volume control turned all the way up, since I've have a prreamp. Is there a possibility that the volume control causes degradation? Can and should it be bypassed? I have not opened the case yet to look inside to see if it is possible.
To my ears the volume control on the red board does not negatively affect the sound. When used with a preamp the knob should be turned all the way up.
I just picked up an Astron on ebay for $36 shipped.
-
Upgraded some of the caps in the Astron and it is a very noticeable step up. The largest cap is a Sprague and I may not replace that as Sprague are supposed to be pretty good I think.
-
Upgraded some of the caps in the Astron and it is a very noticeable step up. The largest cap is a Sprague and I may not replace that as Sprague are supposed to be pretty good I think.
You can look at the date code on the can. Some also regenerate those caps by applying voltages, not sure how it all works. My little smps was never used, I was told the caps might even be worse after being stored unused a few years.
-
I haven't dated my RS-12A, but I suspect it's similarly old... it would probably benefit from a recap as well, although I'm thinking for convenience I might just buy a brand new unit.
I understand that the first two digits of the serial number are the year of manufacture.
-
Upgraded some of the caps in the Astron and it is a very noticeable step up. The largest cap is a Sprague and I may not replace that as Sprague are supposed to be pretty good I think.
If it's a large blue Sprague 36D computer-type cap or similar, then it's probably a keeper. I considered one of those, but they were pretty expensive--more than the $38 I spent on the Kemet (Rifa) PEH200 electrolytic cap I installed in my Astron RS-12A.
-
They are not like filmcaps, as I understand it all elco's deteriorate with age, some might be worth the effort to try and regenerate? Expected life for most Spragues is 1000 hours, which is like always at max temperature. Shelf life is the same most of times for new ones, but read few times about applying different voltages in some kind of sequence to bring them back to life, like they did with all the Roedersteins NOS they offer for example.
-
Gents,
Can a single Astron/TenTec power supply be used for multiple pieces of gear?
Assuming the amp rating hasn't been overloaded.
As noted dedicated power supplies are the best for sound, but was just wondering.
-
If it's a large blue Sprague 36D computer-type cap or similar, then it's probably a keeper. I considered one of those, but they were pretty expensive--more than the $38 I spent on the Kemet (Rifa) PEH200 electrolytic cap I installed in my Astron RS-12A.
Yep, one of the big blues...
-
Having got my green Audiobah board hooked up at last I just wanted to note that I am finding the sound significantly better than the blue/black board that I modified. The changes to the blue/black sounded like clear improvements to my ears, but the Audiobah board is preferable even in stock form at the moment. The sound is not particularly clearer, but seems more refined and overall just more 'right' (particularly with voices).
Obviously it is more difficult to modify the board beyond just changing onboard electrolytics and possibly inductors. But (based only on comparison of these two) for anyone reading who is wondering which board they want in order to use stock I would personally suggest 'go green'.
-
Good to hear! On taobao these green audiobah boards are 10% cheaper then red YJ board and 30% cheaper then blueblack YJ board. But source(gainsetting) and speaker(outputfilter inductors) can be part of difference in sound. Output filter inductors audiobah are 22uH, for blueblack 10uH. What is the standard gainsetting for this green board now, I think it was 32dB or even 36dB some months ago, YJ boards standard gain is 26dB I believe.
-
Mark, thanks for the info on the inductors on Audiobah board - I was just wondering that as I have some other 10uH inductors and was wondering whether to swap 'em. I'm guessing the filter will be compromised if I do...? I'm listening to the board now on speakers with CSS FR125sr (drivers 7ohm nominal) but will be also using the boards with Alpair 7.3 and probably others too.
Gain on Audiobah board is currently 26db according to EBay listing.
-
I took the plunge and (following Sharpi31 on diyaudio) removed the input caps on my Audiobah board. I then connected (hardwired) the balanced inputs of the TPA3116 to the isolation transformer that is the output stage of my Buffalo II DAC. The DAC has firmware volume control, so as of now between the output pins of the ES9018 chip and the input pins of the TPA3116 there is only some wire and Sowter 3575 transformers wound with OCC copper (10K:10K isolating transformers).
It sounds very nice, considering that I am using a completely stock Audiobah board powered by a 12v adapter that came with a Yamaha keyboard well over a decade go. Bass is not as deep or powerful as I was getting with my TA2020 in a similar setup, but is wonderfully textured and the soundstage is huge. The sound overall is very warm, intimate and yet spacious - as you would expect. It shows enormous promise for when I sort the power supply and other details.
I measured DC offset at the speakers - getting 2.1mV and 0.2mV so that seems fine. No problems with background noise so long as the DAC is on. If I turn the DAC off but leave the amp on then there is a worrying hum coming through. It doesn't seem to cause a problem (so far!) but rattles my nerves a bit. It cannot be a ground loop because there is galvanic isolation, but I have had similar issues before using the isolating transformers in this way. Seems to come with the territory.
:)
-
Mark, thanks for the info on the inductors on Audiobah board - I was just wondering that as I have some other 10uH inductors and was wondering whether to swap 'em. I'm guessing the filter will be compromised if I do...? I'm listening to the board now on speakers with CSS FR125sr (drivers 7ohm nominal) but will be also using the boards with Alpair 7.3 and probably others too.
Gain on Audiobah board is currently 26db according to EBay listing.
I would think you found that 22uH inductors are best choice for both Full Range speakers mentioned above. i received a blueblack first time for me, outputfilter caps are 560nF, not 680nF, YJ did that earlier with redboard I read, perfect 3ohm filter now I think, first impression, distorted like oversteered (is this english?) but will let it play for few days before serious opinion.
edit: dutch "overstuurd'' is probably overdriven in english not oversteered? :)
-
There is informative discussion on diyaudio at the moment about bad cap choice (voltage ratings) on those boards. Maybe Audiobah spec'ed his better and that is why that board sounds more refined(?).
-
All chinese parts could be something else then expected, with smd's you are really blindly depending on that they put the correct part in, when part shows value 560nF and pcb silkscreen tells you 680nF you can see they changed something. I have seen pictures on diyaudio were different sized SMD capacitors were used in L and R channel, then it is obvious too:)
Diyaudio wiki on this amp seems to differ completely from what the TI designers themselves tell about the bootstrap part BTW, if you look at TI evaluation module, were all distortiondata in datasheet originate from, on that TI EVM the bootstrap is the lowest spec you find on the entire module(all other ceramics used have better classification), BOM is in guide for EVM. There also aren't any layout recommendations regarding the bootstrap caps that I found. Lowest specced part choice by TI and no special considerations mentioned suggest the part is not critical. It could be it is the point were you could improve upon TI EVM.
Will try to measure bootstrap on blueblack later today, there is still bad SQ I hear from new blueblack. If I use unmodded sure3110 as a reference this blueblack seems much worse, not close. So something must be wrong.
-
I found the blue/black sounded excellent with less good speakers. With my better speakers (still diy) it still sounded very impressive in the detail and in the way the music jumped out at you, especially after the limited whatever-to-hand mods I made. I would not have called it distortion, but something there in the sound made it less than involving however - impressive but not entirely listenable long-term. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that it was the input capacitors. After giving the Audiobah board only an hour or so to warm-up, the sound just did not seem to have that issue. As I said before, it just seemed more 'right'.
Without wishing to offend anyone or drag the discussion down in any way, I wonder if the valve pre-amps are serving to mask or smooth over that subtle distortion that you (Markvdv) are hearing and that I perhaps sensed subliminally without being able to put my finger on? Only a thought, and I speak as someone who ordered a C&C unity-gain valve buffer kit to try out (still waiting for delivery).
-
In defense of the Chinese makers of these boards, I imagine they have quite a Darwinian struggle to survive with us lot constantly comparing the prices of their products and purchasing the cheapest. I guess they adapt their practices in order to succeed in that particular marketplace. :wink:
-
I wonder(ed) about the tubepre too:) The version I got originally only added loads of distortion and noise and compressed dynamics. With that solved differences are much much smaller. Noise, only high frequency now, is louder, but so is total gain a little, there is a little more then just added gain I guess however, unhearable from listening position, but closing in on loudspeaker audible when stopping for some time at 1 meter. High frequencies are actually a little louder with my tubepre then without it, no rolloff, high frequency detail is lost a little, Panasonic FM/FR ecap lose more detail on my board for example, tube doesn't sound harsh when distorting, some bad recordings sound a little nicer not much. Real low frequency now is about same strenght, but again little less detail in lowest frequencies. Bass/mid in general does sound warmer, fuller and that might be part of sounding a little more dynamic. I use Twaron all-over the tube pcb, it is a big bulb of yellow ultrafine kevlarlike wire I see, no magical glow :)
-
boottrap capacitor measured on pcb's:
sure3110: 155/167/175/163 nF ceramic original
sure3110: 171/185/173/181 nF ceramic original
hiampmini: 224/220/219/221 nF film
hiampmini: 218/224/218/223 nF film
blueblack: 234/223/216/224 nF film
so not value related unfortunately, blueblack does have longest path
-
Now I am curious - what does the Twaron do?
-
Basicly they finish what the rubber rings around the tubes missed :)
Ceramics are also microphonic, but not quite as much as these tubes :)
-
All chinese parts could be something else then expected, with smd's you are really blindly depending on that they put the correct part in, when part shows value 560nF and pcb silkscreen tells you 680nF you can see they changed something. I have seen pictures on diyaudio were different sized SMD capacitors were used in L and R channel, then it is obvious too:)
Diyaudio wiki on this amp seems to differ completely from what the TI designers themselves tell about the bootstrap part BTW, if you look at TI evaluation module, were all distortiondata in datasheet originate from, on that TI EVM the bootstrap is the lowest spec you find on the entire module(all other ceramics used have better classification), BOM is in guide for EVM. There also aren't any layout recommendations regarding the bootstrap caps that I found. Lowest specced part choice by TI and no special considerations mentioned suggest the part is not critical. It could be it is the point were you could improve upon TI EVM.
Will try to measure bootstrap on blueblack later today, there is still bad SQ I hear from new blueblack. If I use unmodded sure3110 as a reference this blueblack seems much worse, not close. So something must be wrong.
TPA3116D2 is a digital amplifier working with square impulses at close to 400 Khz. At these frequencies any extra length of signal path results in distortion of digital signal, loss of signal shape, timing problems, noise, etc. etc. Components have to be located as close to the chip as possible and only SMD components may be suitable.
The "Blue" board, with all its "through the hole" components, is good for modifications, but it's bad for sound quality. All those extra "legs" on the caps and resistors add parasitic capacitance and inductance. In my experience the "Green" board from Audiobah on eBay may be the only decent board available.
-
TPA3116D2 is a digital amplifier working with square impulses at close to 400 Khz. At these frequencies any extra length of signal path results in distortion of digital signal, loss of signal shape, timing problems, noise, etc. etc. Components have to be located as close to the chip as possible and only SMD components may be suitable.
The "Blue" board, with all its "through the hole" components, is good for modifications, but it's bad for sound quality. All those extra "legs" on the caps and resistors add parasitic capacitance and inductance. In my experience the "Green" board from Audiobah on eBay may be the only decent board available.
lol. that's hilarious.
(http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/attachments/baseball/103214d1347249275-time-vent-extreme-lowballer-cool-dog-hey-cool-story-bro41.jpg)
-
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2j62tqa.jpg)
So I am comparing left blueblack with right hiampmini. From looking at ebay pictures most will not see the difference in size:) The hiampmini only has through hole components surrounding the tpa3116 chip and for powersupply decoupling that does mean the 0.1uF capacitor has a longer signal path. This might be reason high frequency detail disappears when using Panasonic FM/FR, not sure, but could be. I actually have 2 hiampmini's in PBTL that I compare to 1 BTL blueblack and none of the components on my hiampmini boards came with the boards, they came from Mouser or Digikey.
When listening to blueblack I get the feeling I need to turn up the volume, and when I turn the pot higher it feels like nothing happens till a violin for example splits my brain, auwch, highs are edgy. All frequencies are there, real low bass detail is missing, but it is there. Cymbal detail is there. Whatever I focus on seems to be OK, except high frequencies getting ugly, but I do got the 3 ohm filter version it seems, yellow 560nF caps in output, not the blue 680nF like the picture shows. Everything seems heldback, it is comparable somewhat with connecting a low efficiency small loudspeaker to an amp that can't really drive them, the small loudspeakers often need a big amp to come alive. Clarity, transparancy I guess are words coming close. Funny thing is listening for more then 20 minutes and question comes up: what was I missing??? I can't hear the heldback effect any more, the brain seems to have corrected it, because switching to another piece of music immediatly brings the feeling back, I want to push it, music doesn't sound open and after a while it is corrected again between my ears :) Switching to hiampminis does give a sense of relief, it is much easier to listen to, it sounds open and there is clarity without the high edge.
First thing I will change will be the yellow 560nF, I hope that cleans up the high frequencies and edginess
-
lol. that's hilarious.
Just take out your scope and function generator and measure the TDA3116 output at various points, look at the signal shape.
I trust you do have a scope, bro :icon_lol:
-
I'm more inclined to believe the audiobah sounds better stock because the guy actually uses properly specced *genuine* high quality components as well as a quality pcb. There's a reason why audiobah costs more than the other boards. IIRC he got direct feedback on his design at diyaudio and followed/follows the thread there.
I've listened to other boards just as compact and they didn't sound a whole lot different from larger ones.
-
So I am comparing left blueblack with right hiampmini. ... Switching to hiampminis does give a sense of relief, it is much easier to listen to, it sounds open and there is clarity without the high edge.
Thanks, Mark. Aside from loosing the top end glare and gaining openness, are there other audible differences? I'm thinking bass quality, vocal quality, etc.
-
It is like driving with the parkingbrake on. Energy is lost somewhere. On low volume blueblack loses everything, music partly disappears, hiampmini sounds the same whatever volume is, so does sure3110, you still get a complete soundpicture.
Everything sounds like the brake is on with blueblack here, except maybe distorted high frequencies, but that is the 560nF caps I mentioned I think/hope.
(Sound of 3110 is close to and clearly related to hiampmini, my blueblack is totally different, I think I will check if it is a 3116 under the heatsink, blindly you would never ever guess it is the same amp)
-
It is like driving with the parkingbrake on. Energy is lost somewhere. On low volume blueblack loses everything, music partly disappears, hiampmini sounds the same whatever volume is, so does sure3110, you still get a complete soundpicture.
Everything sounds like the brake is on with blueblack here, except maybe distorted high frequencies, but that is the 560nF caps I mentioned I think/hope.
(Sound of 3110 is close to and clearly related to hiampmini, my blueblack is totally different, I think I will check if it is a 3116 under the heatsink, blindly you would never ever guess it is the same amp)
Sounds like your blueblack board is defective.
-
I'm more inclined to believe the audiobah sounds better stock because the guy actually uses properly specced *genuine* high quality components as well as a quality pcb. There's a reason why audiobah costs more than the other boards. IIRC he got direct feedback on his design at diyaudio and followed/follows the thread there.
I've listened to other boards just as compact and they didn't sound a whole lot different from larger ones.
The Audiobah board is not as compact as the Hiamplifier board in the picture Mark posted - looks closest in size to the red YJ board although slightly smaller. Where Audiobah differs is in using all SMD components with the exception of 2x470uF electrolytic caps.
Are you mixing the two up? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing Hiamplifier posting at diyaudio but not seeing Audiobah. I have not read the whole thread though so not sure.
-
The Audiobah board is not as compact as the Hiamplifier board in the picture Mark posted - looks closest in size to the red YJ board although slightly smaller. Where Audiobah differs is in using all SMD components with the exception of 2x470uF electrolytic caps.
Are you mixing the two up? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember seeing Hiamplifier posting at diyaudio but not seeing Audiobah. I have not read the whole thread though so not sure.
Yeah I meant hiamplifier. Certainly if I was looking to diy but not do any mods the hiamplifier is the one I would get. I just don't believe the trace lengths have much to do with why hiamp board may sound better. In Markvdv's case it sounds like the there is a problem with the board.
-
The Audiobah board is not as compact as the Hiamplifier board in the picture Mark posted - looks closest in size to the red YJ board although slightly smaller. Where Audiobah differs is in using all SMD components with the exception of 2x470uF electrolytic caps.
I didn't have Hiamplifier board, but looking at the pictures I'd say that Audiobah board may be similar size if not smaller. It is less than half size of the blueback. Audiobah is the only board available (as far as I know) that has mute circuitry implemented.
-
Just take out your scope and function generator and measure the TDA3116 output at various points, look at the signal shape.
I trust you do have a scope, bro :icon_lol:
Hi ClefChef, You've built amps using the Yuan Jing and Audiobah amps. can you please share photos of your scope image demonstrating the parasitic losses occurring with the Yuan Jing amp vs. the Audiobah? I'm always interested in learning more about how these amps can be improved. Thanks.
-
The brake is off now, but stupid as I am I did 3 things same time, I replaced the 560nF's, the jamicons for hybrid za and I lowered gain to 20dB. The pot is 10k panasonic, 30k inputimpedance for 26dB gain might be too little, 60k inputimpedance with the 10k maybe better, I am going to get the 560nF's back on pcb and listen, grrr I should have done 1 change at a time.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2yjqbrk.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/1539m9t.jpg)
-
Filterless the output of tpa31xx is a square wave looking at it on a scope.
Size of audiobah, Brasilian ebay seller, advance controls green board is 65 x 69mm, red YJ with volumecontrol is 81 x 69mm, blueblack YJ is 103*58mm, hiampmini is 50 x 50mm
-
Size of audiobah, Brasilian ebay seller, advance controls green board is 65 x 69mm, red YJ with volumecontrol is 81 x 69mm, blueblack YJ is 103*58mm, hiampmini is 50 x 50mm
That's a relief - I was worried I was going to have to get my eyesight re-calibrated! 8)
-
Sound wasn't held back by the yellow 560nF's.
-
:duh: Bad bad bad, terribly bad, if you happen to have these on your 3116 pcb too, replacing them might result in a very very big surprise, especially if you don't have another 3116 amp around
(http://i61.tinypic.com/24l79qu.jpg)
-
:duh: Bad bad bad, terribly bad, if you happen to have these on your 3116 pcb too, replacing them might result in a very very big surprise, especially if you don't have another 3116 amp around
What did you replace them with? What did you hear with the change? This appears to be the stock cap on a blue/black board, at least it is what is in my stock blue/black board.
Thanks,
Ed
-
I replaced them with Panasonic ZA hybrids, but any other I could have put there would have made approximately the same difference. All the Jamicons, both, did if anything was suck up energy it seems. Black holes is what they are. The Jamicon TL datasheet is quite good, but I fear these are part of the plague that existed, or I don't know does 944C0 production code indicate 2009??? maybe 5 year old unused caps always behave like this??? Maybe they aren't what the sleeve says they are, but the amp didn't sound like 3110 or 3116 amps I have, far far worse.
Now I can start comparing, but too pissed I waited some days before I changed parts thinking caps would settle :D I will listen seriously tomorrow to blueblack compared to hiampmini, now I 'm just glad I hear normal musicproduction, blueblack is playing 24 hours a day like befor only switched to hiampmini and 3110 for 10 minutes to have a quick reference and confirmation my blueblack was awfull.
-
OK.
Soundstage hiampminis is wider, every sound/instruments locked better in one place then with single near stock blueblack. Bass sometimes in first moment a little stronger with blueblack but diminishing a bit, sometimes blueblack bass sound a little fuller warmer, hiampmini's bass overall has more authority. Full orchestra in violin concerto is comfortable on hiampminis, but high frequency peaks get exaggerated a bit. Edges sound smoother though than on blueblack. Little sounds from audience, people walking to their seats etc are far more audible on hiampminis, so is acoustic information about recording location, resonance. Sound sometimes seems to originate outside left of left speaker. Clarinet sounds more airy, thinner on hiamp, violin sounds more lyrical, but on solo sometimes again exaggerated in highs. Hiampmini appears to be quiter when listening to music. (Volume was set on 200hz test tone, pot on 12 for blueblack, a little under for hiampminis), when switching from violin concerto to PinkFloyd dynamic compression became a little obvious, PF sounds much louder. Here for hiampmini things did not change, everything locked in place all the time, the blueboard struggled to keep things separate, and frankly I didn't expect it to be so loud this PF recording, I would have chosen another volumelevel if I had started with PF. Roger Waters S's sharper on blueblack like his mouth noises, bass a little louder on blueblack maybe??, but blueblack has trouble, cymbals are overpowered by other instruments, less in volume, metal sound barely noticable at this level (earlier I found the cymbals quite good on blueblack) hiampminis has the cymbals fixed in place like everything else. When I was fed up with listening:) I put in Pakito Living on Video. Level here between 85-90dB, in 90 but never 91dB on android app phone 2 meters from speakers, very dynamic , not really, bass and highs both louder on hiampminis. For a disco party the hiampminis are better, but highs here from blueblack i like a little better actually.
BTL blueblack has 330uF panasonic ZA hybrid per channel, no caps on dc-input
PBTL hiampminis have 2 220uF elna silmicII per channel and 4 1000uF nichicons HZ/PW per channel on dc input
every amp board was powered by 1 indeed 12v 6A, that means 2 times 12v 6A for hiampminis. yes mascot psu sounds better, a bit calmer on hiampminis highs, a bit more powerfull on bass, but switching takes too long.
-
I expected the blueblack to be more detailed, and who knows with the same components it might be. I keep reading about superior decoupling of ceramics vs through hole film, which makes sense, except designer of pcb must use the strong point of the ceramic then, tiny size. I feel they don't, maybe that is reason in reality even for powersupply decoupling through hole can be better. Today I took a closer look. Key to succesfull decoupling is the 0.1uF capacitor on these boards. Ceramics have a higher esr then film, but due to the longer legs through hole film caps have higher inductance, and being bigger they usually need more signalpath lenght on pcb too.
Now on hiampmini board I measured millimeters to the decoupling cap, it is all real tiny, but hiampmini distance to capacitor solderpoint is 7 to 8 mm, blueblack 11 to 12 mm. Here pcb signalpath length adds more inductance to the ceramic on blueblack, and also more resistance, and esr already is higher for ceramic, might even be factor 10 higher then PP cap.
Now the ground side of the capacitor, for ceramic on blueboard there is a pcb track back to chip, were right on edge of chip signal path goes through a via to the other side of the board for contact to groundplane. Does this sound familiar to through hole or not??????? Pcbtrack is 4mm back to via. Now hiampmini, I think topside board has a groundplane under cap topside and bottom pcb side, so distance here could be zero or the same as the via part of blueboard, again pcbtracks add inductance to ceramic on blueblack, not on hiampmini through hole cap it seems.
Normally filmcap of 0.1uF will perform better then ceramic for esr controlled part of frequency range, here that might be even further, might even be for entire frequency spectrum?? Normally the 0.1uF film outperforms the ceramic till roughly 5Mhz I believe, after that the ceramic profits in theory from lower inductance. But here more inductance is added to the ceramic in form of pcb traces, it could very well be more then the through hole part ever had totally.
-
If I understand the above correctly then Audiobah looks to have done things reasonably well, with 2 SMD caps quite close to the chip. I have not measured track length, but I do not think it could be greatly reduced without a smaller heatsink.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=101145)
-
there is a direct connection to groundplane, and not a 4mm trace to a via to a groundplane, so that is better then blueblackboard, the side of ceramic to ground. the other much cheaper greenboard (ebayprices) has a much shorter distance from chip to decoupling ceramics. That distance does kill ESR I think and adds inductance. Heatsink audiobah hides distance, designer thought chiptemperature was more troublesome then decoupling :D (for me tpa chip hardly ever gets warm without any heatsink even)
(http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/921/187/931/931187921_222.jpg)
-
This very roughly is the difference
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2egcqb5.png)
(just saw that powertrace again, crossing beneath all the weakest inputsignals above it on the other side of pcb, poorly chosen :( )
-
Interesting! So that cheaper green board looks worth a try?
I guess all design is about tradeoffs. It does seem though that the best TPA3116D2 board has yet to be made. Maybe there is a niche in the market out there for one of you knowledgeable electronics guys: best board design with well spec'ed and reliable quality components... not trying to compete with the cheapest? :P
I still like the sound of my Audiobah board though... for now. :roll:
-
Don't think the blueblack distance is huge:) This photo is much bigger then board is!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/v64u11.png)
if you look at pic you see pcb trace for top 104 decoupling ceramic, going up 7 mm and the again ~6 mm to the left to 104 ceramic after the 10nF and right below the 0 in 10nF you see the via going to ground for that side of chip and there is actually another via under the 4 in 104 for the 104 there
-
I would not have spotted all that. Thanks - the education is useful & appreciated!
That chip looks like it has seen better days though. What happened and does it still work?
-
some white glue residue from heatsink, it is a 3116, with original ecaps I had my doubts :D
glue remains flexible, is nonconductive, I think it is also used in bathrooms and kitchens :)
-
Ahhh... viewing on my screen I thought the top had been split apart or something similar. :green:
-
:o 100nF ceramics went for a walk and ended up their sides 8)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/313tc0n.jpg)
So this is what happened, the 104 ceramics are no longer in their original place, yellow dot, but now where the yellow stripe is. Far easier then expected. If I had known it would be this easy I would have placed them 1 mm closer to chip :) but this was easier. (current distance top ceramic between tpachip contacts and ceramic contact 2 mm, lower ceramic between 1.5mm and 2 mm) Value of the ceramics was 93nF and 94nF, so they were close to 100. 0$ mod that removes the hard/harsh edge from blueblack and adds a load of detail information, clarity.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/142vs5x.png)
-
I cut the Jamicon original ecaps open. Never did that befor so I also cut a 1 year old Nichicon 1000uF open, that is a lot messier:) There is actually much fluid in the Nichicon and cutting the aluminium also has a little air sizzle, either air going in or out, air presure inside Nichicon was different then outside. Jamicon was complete silent. The roll you lift out of the can is soaking wet with Nichicon and drips , in the empty can you see a lot more fluid. The Jamicon roll was a little wet, no dripping and no fluid is in the empty can.
-
I have been following the mods others have done, and decided to give it a go myself. I have been listening to the Blue/Black in stock form for several months. It has sounded pretty good, especially when paired with the little 6N3 3 tube pre-amp. With my recent mods the TPA3116 is now totally amazing. I just can't get over how much better it sounds. I haven't even tried it with the pre yet, its sounds so good by itself!
I am not very electronics knowledgeable, and I just follow what others have done, so I replaced the following caps:
Input caps
Decoupling caps
Bootstrap caps
The most solder slinging I have done at one time......
(http://i.imgur.com/ZHDtC74l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uHcb2g7l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7cpFxxfl.jpg)
-
I cut the Jamicon original ecaps open. Never did that befor so I also cut a 1 year old Nichicon 1000uF open, that is a lot messier:) There is actually much fluid in the Nichicon and cutting the aluminium also has a little air sizzle, either air going in or out, air presure inside Nichicon was different then outside. Jamicon was complete silent. The roll you lift out of the can is soaking wet with Nichicon and drips , in the empty can you see a lot more fluid. The Jamicon roll was a little wet, no dripping and no fluid is in the empty can.
Well, let's "recap" - Nichicon is full of electrolyte in a vacuum sealed can, Jamicon has little electrolyte in a can that is not hermetically sealed. Hm... :scratch:
-
Lacro, would you mind letting us know the parts you used? I would like to replicate your mods. This will be my first venture into modification. I thought replicating yours will be a good start for a novice like me.
Thanks!
I have been following the mods others have done, and decided to give it a go myself. I have been listening to the Blue/Black in stock form for several months. It has sounded pretty good, especially when paired with the little 6N3 3 tube pre-amp. With my recent mods the TPA3116 is now totally amazing. I just can't get over how much better it sounds. I haven't even tried it with the pre yet, its sounds so good by itself!
I am not very electronics knowledgeable, and I just follow what others have done, so I replaced the following caps:
Input caps
Decoupling caps
Bootstrap caps
The most solder slinging I have done at one time......
(http://i.imgur.com/ZHDtC74l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uHcb2g7l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7cpFxxfl.jpg)
-
Lacro, would you mind letting us know the parts you used? I would like to replicate your mods. This will be my first venture into modification. I thought replicating yours will be a good start for a novice like me.
Thanks!
PM Sent.....
-
Well, let's "recap" - Nichicon is full of electrolyte in a vacuum sealed can, Jamicon has little electrolyte in a can that is not hermetically sealed. Hm... :scratch:
Jamicon's are very close to not being a capacitor anymore:) close to end of life. When I tried to measure resistance they instantly became hot, with others you can feel a temperature rise a little after some seconds. The metal foil inside the Jamicons have little white dots all over, looks like oxidation, elctrolyte still in roll made roll look greenish. Nichicon use other electrolyte probably, that is brown. In the amp they made music sound like brake was on, like amp wasn't able to drive speakers properly. Turning up the volume seemed like nothing was changing, turning down the volume made chunks of music dissappear. Like I mentioned only the brainsplitting high frequencies at higher levels seemed to get through the fog, after moving the 0.1uF's I am 100% certain those are the powerreservoir for those higher frequencies, the hard/harsh side sometimes heard remained equal with panasonic za, but moving the 0.1uF's changed it. They impact music quite a bit. In the air tonight's drum solo wasn't close to hiampmini's, or close to what you want to feel, now it just sounds right, I didn't compare yet but from memory of 4 hours listening session the other day I would say blueblack might sound better now:) Comparing the hiampminis to blueblack for me also revealed the outputfilter capacitorvalue recommended by TI (1uF for pbtl) does exaggerate treble a bit on my speakers, it shouldn't with the constant impedance I thought they had, but impedance is rising it seems and redoing zobel calculations revealed the zobelcalculator I used created values different from all other zobelcalculators I now tried, damn, that would confirm what was heard.
-
There is a new group buy for bare boards, but you would need to be willing to do surface mount.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html#post3969462 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html#post3969462)
-
There is a new group buy for bare boards, but you would need to be willing to do surface mount.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html#post3969462 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html#post3969462)
seems inductors are most important part there. they are important, but I don't feel I need the biggies! or maybe finally I will, but for now powersupply seems more important, layout Dug's powersupply is very good too btw, looks surperior to all/most!
-
seems inductors are most important part there. they are important, but I don't feel I need the biggies! or maybe finally I will, but for now powersupply seems more important, layout Dug's powersupply is very good too btw, looks surperior to all/most!
Which one is Dug's board? I'm a newbie to this amp.
EDIT: nevermind, Dug is the diyaudio board, I was confused :oops:
I bought the audiobah last week, now I am waiting to get.
And the diyaudio boards are cheap enough to order a couple just in case.
Randy
-
dug's boards come without any parts :) so they will be a lot more expensive then any chinese amp you can buy. and it won't be just 2 tiny smd's like I moved, there will be a lot of tiny and even smaller contacts to solder, take a look at tpa3116 chip for example :)
-
Which one is Dug's board? I'm a newbie to this amp.
EDIT: nevermind, Dug is the diyaudio board, I was confused :oops:
I bought the audiobah last week, now I am waiting to get.
And the diyaudio boards are cheap enough to order a couple just in case.
Randy
The Audiobah board sounds good. I am using it with a TVC and really enjoy it. This combo sound better than the YJ red board with a pot. No poping sound when switch on too.
Regards,
-
dug's boards come without any parts :) so they will be a lot more expensive then any chinese amp you can buy. and it won't be just 2 tiny smd's like I moved, there will be a lot of tiny and even smaller contacts to solder, take a look at tpa3116 chip for example :)
I don't think Dug's will be that hard. For a newbie, yes, but the SMDs are reasonable size. Toughest part will soldering the chip itself.
-
yet I have not seen pictures or read about other people doing something to try to better decoupling or anything else involving SMD's :)
btw just noticed by accident that the inductors run warmer then the tpa3116 chip (without heatsink) on blueblack (very lowlevel background radio for 4 hours), funny, so it kind of makes sense to replace them I guess. I will first listen serious again and then touch the inductors afterwards to see what temperature is then, but this doesn't feel good now, inductor temperature should not rise with levels this low I feel :(
-
I have been looking for an Astron PS for awhile now. Hoping to find one locally on Craigslist. Most of the ones on E-Bay have high $ shipping because of the weight. A newly listed E-bay SL-11A caught my eye because it was $25, and had "free shipping" so I jumped... Got it in 2 days :thumb:
So far I have only tried it with my nearfield PC system powering my newly modded TPA3116 Blue/Black, and a cheap pair of Pioneer BS21 bookshelf speakers. After doing multiple A/B blind tests, I can truly say the SQ difference with the Astron PS is definitely noticeable over my 12V Indeed brick which has been the best "cheap" brick I have tried.
I have been listening to my modded Blue board for about a week now so I decided to add back my YJ 3 tube pre-amp back into the system. Previously adding the Pre with the unmodded blue board the SQ improvement was amazing, especially after rolling tubes.
However, the 3 tube Pre doesn't seem to have the same dramatic improvement with the newly modded Blue board as it does with a stock board?? I need to do more listening, especially with different speakers, but right now my modded blue board powered by my new (used) Astron PS sounds amazing, and doesn't need tubes to make it better.
(http://i.imgur.com/Qat0Nhcl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ewdn4Ejl.jpg)
-
Wow, 25 bucks. :thumb:
Tomorrow I am getting in a Cryo'd power cord for a weeks trial to go between my Astron and Itube. The custom cable costs $55, would anyone else here be interested in my comparisons?
-
Does anybody know what's the rated wattage of the audiobah board in mono PTBL mode @ 8 ohms?
Thanks
-
Does anybody know what's the rated wattage of the audiobah board in mono PTBL mode @ 8 ohms?
Thanks
Between 3 watt and 40 watt @1% THD depending on supply voltage
-
Wow, 25 bucks. :thumb:
Tomorrow I am getting in a Cryo'd power cord for a weeks trial to go between my Astron and Itube. The custom cable costs $55, would anyone else here be interested in my comparisons?
I'm interested. :thumb:
I'll be purchasing an Astron any day now.
I've also ordered the audiobah board. :D
-
Does anyone know the input impedance of the 50+50 Yuan Jing Blue Black board? The website appears to be down or I would have looked it up myself.
Thanks,
Ed
-
Just purchased an ASTRON MODEL SL-11R, 11 AMP power supply on Ebay for $38 shipped. I'm glad I got the SL-11R model which is internally adjustable to 15V. I'd like to squeeze as much power as possible out of the TPS3116.
-
For those interested, Astron SL-11A can also be adjusted to output 15V.
Just purchased an ASTRON MODEL SL-11R, 11 AMP power supply on Ebay for $38 shipped. I'm glad I got the SL-11R model which is internally adjustable to 15V. I'd like to squeeze as much power as possible out of the TPS3116.
-
Does anyone know the input impedance of the 50+50 Yuan Jing Blue Black board? The website appears to be down or I would have looked it up myself.
Thanks,
Ed
It's based on gain, check the 3116 data sheet.
-
For those interested, Astron SL-11A can also be adjusted to output 15V.
I went over the spec. sheet for both models and you're right. I didn't notice it the first time. I was wondering what was the difference between the R version and the A version. :scratch: The R spec. sheet intro mentioned the adjustability but the A version intro didn't.
I was feeling lucky that I found one that has this feature.
-
Standard gain for both YJ blue and red is set at 26dB, giving 30k input impedance. (sometimes wrong resistors are mounted, read about that a couple of times)
If you need or like 60k input impedance better just remove the left side 100k resistor for all other options you need to change resistors.
-
...The R spec. sheet intro mentioned the adjustability but the A version intro didn't.
I was feeling lucky that I found one that has this feature.
The only way I knew that the A version is adjustable is that I opened mine up and found the little thumbwheel and put it to use. :thumb:
-
The only way I knew that the A version is adjustable is that I opened mine up and found the little thumbwheel and put it to use. :thumb:
That's only an extra volt or so difference right. How much extra watts is that?
-
So I ordered from Audiobah on 6/17, got it yesterday on 7/2, about 2 weeks.
I'm in LA, so probably a little faster than other parts of the country.
Randy
-
That's only an extra volt or so difference right. How much extra watts is that?
If I recall correctly, the thumbwheel covered a range from 12V to 15V. Would increasing the voltage simply decrease the amperage? Sorry...I'm not even sure when to apply Ohm's law...
-
Who cares? It's got enough A for three units full blast, even if it did.
But to answer the question, no, it does not. The transformer in it and recifiers are probably upwards of 18-21v , and the rest I believe is shunted off (I looked at the schematic awhile ago, it could be switching limiter too on the output, but I remember liking the design so probably not)
-
Who cares? It's got enough A for three units full blast, even if it did.
But to answer the question, no, it does not. The transformer in it and recifiers are probably upwards of 18-21v , and the rest I believe is shunted off (I looked at the schematic awhile ago, it could be switching limiter too on the output, but I remember liking the design so probably not)
Him so could it by modified then to get the 18v straight?
-
Him so could it by modified then to get the 18v straight?
It depends on what the actual rectified voltage happens to be. One could check the rails. However there's a loss of quality in the voltage regulation as a potential because if the AC 120v dips, at 15v the voltage may not, but at close to the rails it will. Also it may cause a significant reduction in any of the noise attenuation as the shunting is reduced to an insignificant amount.
Personally I'd say you're doing damn good for the price you paid already. Upgrades are possible not in the voltage increase.
* Lowering ESR/ESL properties on the shunt side may be an option for more filtration.
* high quality capacitors, as always, could be an option.
Maybe I'll get into it later, I can't in a timely manner on my phone.
-
Looks like Astron's LS- series (http://www.astroncorp.com/w28.shtml) has stock 28V output, but is adjustable down to 22V.
A quick ebay search didn't come up with any matches, so I don't think these are as common as the 12V PSUs.
$130 for a new LS-10A from Ham Radio Outlet (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004726). Steep price increase for the next one up: $205 for an LS-18A (http://www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-004727).
-
Life of the Astron with these superefficient amps will be very easy, the Astron spec suggests you could run 2 boards, (Astron specs are looked at differently then other PSU specs, the SL11A is said to be really a 4 to 5A powersupply). But plenty of the headroom. A previous life of the Astron might not have been as easy as powering a little d-class amp, and the slim SL11A is said to get very hot, and in production since 1990? So I think capacitors is reasonable to look at, possible temperature and possible age considering. Google is giving very many hits, this one I could follow with my limited skill:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/astron/astron-repair/astron-repair.html (http://www.repeater-builder.com/astron/astron-repair/astron-repair.html)
-
Is the wire gauge and length critical for best SQ from Astron PS to amp. I am currently using a very light gauge wire (20/22?) about 4' long because one end has the barrel connection to plug into my experimentation boards jack.
-
Is the wire gauge and length critical for best SQ from Astron PS to amp. I am currently using a very light gauge wire (20/22?) about 4' long because one end has the barrel connection to plug into my experimentation boards jack.
Theoretically, yes. The shorter any wire is the better. In practice? Well there's been a lot of "long" runs of wire and people still listening to music; considering people are always worried about the distance down to millimeters.
Sooo just try to keep it reasonable.
-
There are a lot of caraudio calculators online. 1 meter AWG20 for 13.8V and 40watt total amppower 85% efficient (gives ~3.5A) has ~250mV loss, 1 meter AWG 17 ~125mV loss. For caraudio they feel 500mV is acceptable. But no idea what effect this difference has on sound, sorry :D
-
Is the wire gauge and length critical for best SQ from Astron PS to amp. I am currently using a very light gauge wire (20/22?) about 4' long because one end has the barrel connection to plug into my experimentation boards jack.
Here's the calculator I use:
http://www.bulkwire.com/wireresistance.asp (http://www.bulkwire.com/wireresistance.asp)
I use a 1m twisted pair of Kimber 19AWG TCSS wire with a Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector at the amp end with my Astron RS-12A linear power supply.
-
The main difference between calculator I used and rhing's is mine doubles the lenght, cable lenght plus and min is added.
-
I'm interested. :thumb:
I'll be purchasing an Astron any day now.
I've also ordered the audiobah board. :D
Well, I am definitely buying one of these cables. :thumb:
I have been listening to quite a few cable combos because of the cable tours here on AC and several sets were so detailed that I lost the emotion and the magic. I had to put at least one soft sounding cable to get the magic back.
After hooking up this power cord to my Itube, the sound was too soft. So I then hooked up the detailed cable and that what I was needing. This power cable makes everything so sweet sounding, yet detailed, as the $300 Job Sweetcord cable I hooked up to my Sony music server does.
I ran out of time to try it on my TBI amp, so I will have to wait when I receive the cable I am buying. Another audiophile bought this for his Itube and is raving about it also. My buddy Rex is getting his on Wednesday, so I will see what he says.
-
Here is a bizarre curiosity for the consideration of you hardened 3116 wranglers: an Audiobah board with no input caps and no decoupling caps. I wrote about the removal of the input caps to mate with my Buffalo Dac with output transformers here:
I took the plunge...
Further to that I have made a very simple linear PSU using a Hexfred rectifier, Mundorf Mlytic 10,000uF 25v cap and Bybee Music Rail. The app notes for the Music Rail recommend to "Ensure that no output cap is present." So I removed the electrolytics from the board and then, not really being sure whether this was a good idea, I also removed the SMD decoupling caps, both close to the chip and where the power enters the board.
How does it sound? Pretty good so far. I think the Mundorf cap and the MR are not quite functioning at their best yet - probably had <20hrs use. I have noticed quite an improvement since first connected up and after listening for about 4hrs yesterday the sound really did open up and become quite liquid, with vocals hovering wonderfully in the 3d space in front of me. It has excellent resolution and presence and sounds better than I've personally heard a 3116 sound thus far - although I have not done major mods or been able to sample one of those Astron power supplies (they seem hard to get in the UK, with our higher mains voltage).
So far, the leap in performance of the TPA3116 board with the addition of the MR is not so dramatic as I enjoyed with TA2020. There is at the moment a slight hardness in the midrange and despite excellent promise, I would say that musicality lags behind my old Charlize amp that I had set up with Black Gates and no input caps. (That amp had fantastic synergy with the Buffalo Dac and was not just any old TA2020 amp). I suspect that I am hearing the difference now between the superior parts used for the Charlize and the cheaper parts used on the Audiobah.
I think the next thing I need to do is replace the inductors (as well as continue burn-in). I have read several recommendations, but in view of the limited space on the Audiobah board I wondered if there was a consensus on the best compact 22uH replacements people had tried? I'm not gonna be hanging those whoppers that Wushuliu and Rhing managed to fit to the blue/black off this little fella.
Also, I am considering that maybe I should have left the decoupling caps in for comparison as the app notes for the MR say they can be left in in certain conditions and only advised to remove them. Any constructive comments would be very welcome. I think I am on the way to something very good here... but not quite there yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102050)
-
Here is a bizarre curiosity for the consideration of you hardened 3116 wranglers: an Audiobah board with no input caps and no decoupling caps. I wrote about the removal of the input caps to mate with my Buffalo Dac with output transformers here:
Further to that I have made a very simple linear PSU using a Hexfred rectifier, Mundorf Mlytic 10,000uF 25v cap and Bybee Music Rail. The app notes for the Music Rail recommend to "Ensure that no output cap is present." So I removed the electrolytics from the board and then, not really being sure whether this was a good idea, I also removed the SMD decoupling caps, both close to the chip and where the power enters the board.
Also, I am considering that maybe I should have left the decoupling caps in for comparison as the app notes for the MR say they can be left in in certain conditions and only advised to remove them. Any constructive comments would be very welcome. I think I am on the way to something very good here... but not quite there yet.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102050)
Cool.
I have been thinking about making a simple linear. I have a surplus transformer which I think will work, which is most of the cost. I also have a bunch of bridges and caps I can use. I was thinking about trying an unregulated PS, and since I don't have a Music Rail that won't be part of my supply.
I am curious how a simple linear would compare to the Astron, if I can find a Astron cheap enough I might compare one of these days.
And if it was me, I would at least stick the surface mount caps by the 3116 back in. I would guess the MR doesn't like a lot of capacitance close by, but a little sm cap with some trace in between should be OK.
Randy
-
And if it was me, I would at least stick the surface mount caps by the 3116 back in. I would guess the MR doesn't like a lot of capacitance close by, but a little sm cap with some trace in between should be OK.
Thanks Randy. The app notes for MR state the following, so if the SMD caps are as the TPA3116 datasheet circuit then I guess I could have left them in:
"Ensure that no output cap is present. If this is unavoidable, try to make the cap value less than 0.1uF or greater than 20uF. It is possible to go much higher than this, into the thousands of microfarads, if certain precautions are taken..."
With my Charlize I was not sure what the effect of the MR would be so I just soldered it in with all the caps still present to see what happened. The result was such a knockout that I never got around to trying without them - I just didn't want to mess with that sound at all. This time around I wish I had tried that first for comparison. I am too clumsy at soldering to reinstall them. I do have another Audiobah board to play with so may have to try that - it just means removing the input caps to get a like for like comparison as the dedicated amp for the Buffalo.
-
Thanks Randy. The app notes for MR state the following, so if the SMD caps are as the TPA3116 datasheet circuit then I guess I could have left them in:
"Ensure that no output cap is present. If this is unavoidable, try to make the cap value less than 0.1uF or greater than 20uF. It is possible to go much higher than this, into the thousands of microfarads, if certain precautions are taken..."
With my Charlize I was not sure what the effect of the MR would be so I just soldered it in with all the caps still present to see what happened. The result was such a knockout that I never got around to trying without them - I just didn't want to mess with that sound at all. This time around I wish I had tried that first for comparison. I am too clumsy at soldering to reinstall them. I do have another Audiobah board to play with so may have to try that - it just means removing the input caps to get a like for like comparison as the dedicated amp for the Buffalo.
So little SM caps are not fun, but I'd give it a shot before you give up on that board. It really helps (at least it helps me) to have a pair of tweezers to hold the cap, and a magnifying glass to see the part. I have a visor type magnifying glass so I can just wear it when I work.
Also make sure there is no short after you solder the cap in place.
-
Correction - just reread the cap values on the datasheet circuit and I think I was right to remove them if Audiobah board has same values of 1nF & 100nF (x2). 100nF is 0.1uF right? I'm a bit tired and got confused before. I gotta crash now - big day tomorrow. Cheers (& thanks for advice - may try it this one day soon for the experience)! :D
-
What makes you think any of the capacitors you removed are output capacitors? If you want to see output capacitors I can advise you to look at tpa3123 datasheet, page 1 simple schematic show 470uF output capacitors.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3123d2.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3123d2.pdf)
-
They're filter capacitors on the output, not actually output capacitors. They're part of the filter to remove as much of the RF left overs from the switching (amplification) that comes along with the signal straight out of the chip. The 3110 doesn't have them and it works, but it's low power and doesn't do well next to some other electronics (or rather the speaker wires and speakers may not).
-
What makes you think any of the capacitors you removed are output capacitors? If you want to see output capacitors I can advise you to look at tpa3123 datasheet, page 1 simple schematic show 470uF output capacitors.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3123d2.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3123d2.pdf)
Hi Mark - As I understand it the capacitors I removed are decoupling capacitors connected to pins 17,18,19,31 & 32 of the TPA3116D2. The reference to output capacitors was from the app notes for the Music Rail - i.e. caps on the power supply output from the Music Rail. Since the decoupling caps on the TPA board are linked directly to this power supply I interpreted the app notes as advising me to remove them. I may be wrong and am open to any advice, but I suspect you have misinterpreted what I wrote. :?
http://www.bybeelabs.com/uploads/J0409_Bypass_Capacitors.pdf
-
OK - it was foolish of me to post negative listening impressions before I was confident the sound had settled down properly. Listening for a few more hours this evening I feel the sound has evolved significantly and I am much less concerned that removing those caps may have been a mistake.
Musicality has improved and dynamics are now very impressive (the deep bass has arrived in a big way). The sound still has a little less romance about it than my previous setup, but I believe I am hearing deeper into the recording, eg acoustics of recording spaces. With one CD (yes, CD!) that I know very well I suddenly became aware (or thought I did) of a change of vocal microphone between tracks. Never noticed that sort of thing before.
Feeling more confident now that I am on the right track... :D
-
My buddy Rex received his cryo'd power cord and all he can say is "wow, it is icing on the cake." Rex has two systems, the one he is using the Astron-Itube with this power cord is a NAD 3020B running the Pioneer SL22's. Rex agrees, the power cord makes a significant improvement, bigger soundstage, smoother, and more musical.
-
Hint: The Music Rail, like the TPA3116, needs decoupling capacitor soldered directly to pins to function properly.
-
Hint: The Music Rail, like the TPA3116, needs decoupling capacitor soldered directly to pins to function properly.
Are you referring to the following section from the app note?
"At least 10uF should be strapped from input to ground. Better to use 33uF or higher and place it close to the module until stability is confirmed. You can use film or electrolytic, but if electrolytic is used, you should use 33uF minimum. If the module is within a few inches of the stock cap bank this part may be omitted. "
If this is what you mean then the 10,000uF cap is about 1-2 inches from the MR - on the underside of the perf-board you can see in the picture I posted. Judging by the current performance I believe the Music Rail is functioning properly.
If you think it will really make a difference then I'll perhaps try a smaller cap on the pins when I am sure things are fully burned in. There is no point now as the sound is developing constantly.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102049)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102051)
-
I like your box. Nice wood. :D
-
Cheers! As you can probably tell, my carpentry skills are no more advanced than my electronics skills. But I try to reap the benefit of choosing quality materials to work with. :D
-
hi
how much these mod would cost ?
thank you
regards
Coilcraft SER2915L 10uh inductors
TDK .22uf 250v X7R caps (bootstraps)
330uf 25v Panasonic hybrid electrolytics (PS caps)
Wima FKP, MKP, and MKS for .68uf,10nf, and 1nf output filter caps
36db gain resistor setting
Dayton MKP 2.2uf input caps
Jantzen Superior 2.2uf input caps
Amp sounds *excellent*. Clean and clear, no grain or edge. *Pure*.Best build yet. All done now w/ the TPA. Ready to move on.
I do want to get one of those power supplies that I think someone keeps mentioning. What are they again?
-
Hi acdiy - you are probably best to do your own research on parts costs as a significant portion of the cost will probably be postage and that will depend where you live and where you buy from. You might or might not be able to get all those parts from the same place. Somebody else might chime in but basically, trust your friend google.
-
Outputcapacitors like inputcapacitors I thought were always coupling capacitors, not bypasses/decoupling to ground. Nevermind. Bybee means decoupling caps so it seems, maybe because they are similar to MR and like just adding a random mkp bypass to electrolytic capacitor (especially ones that already have ceramic bypasses) often deteriorates impedance and noise filtering (like outputfilter there can be huge peaking). All decoupling caps removed do seem to be (just) outside dangerzone for MR, maybe 0.1uF was a bit close but I guess if it really was, Bybee would have mentioned 0.05uF or 0.01uF so probably 0.1uF is fine, but you can use smaller close to 0.1uF like 0.082uF. The position of the original probably 0.1uF and probably 1nF on that green board already made them kind of bad. I can't look under that black heatsink but maybe there are decoupling caps closer to chip, they would easily fit under heatsink, and they really should be closer to chip to work properly.
If there are no decoupling ceramics under the heatsink you can remove heatsink and add two 0.082uF chippin to ground easily (1 left, 1 right). If MR doesn't get hot you maybe could attach it to same heatsink, then MR output pins are a lot closer to the pcbtraces going to original positions where you removed the ceramics, you could use tracepads leading to chip there, 1 for left one for right. Next I would cut power pcb-trace other side of pcb twice so there wouldn't be power crossing inputsignal just above, that creates noise too. (do look for mutepower in the corner of that trace, you probably want muting to keep working so cut after that via and other side past inputs above like in other corner too) You add electrolytics outside MR dangerzone to improve bass, you will probably notice that with 0.082uF directly on chippins and MR mounted close, those electrolytics don't influence highfrequencies anymore like befor. (Mounted like this original powerinput on pcb is not used, electrolytics get power from traces fed by MR, so powertraces are on chipside of pcb now, meaning no electrolytics for bass mounted means no mutecircuitry functioning if pcbtrace on bottomside is cut twice!!!) My 2 cents.
I thought Sagami inductors used on green are rather good. But somewhere I think somebody said they are not made for this purpose. So there probably is a number on them identifying them, you can look if they are not suitable then on Sagami website, there certainly are usable Sagami double inductors there that look similar, but maybe I didn't look at resonance frequency or missed something else...
-
If Jay Leno still had a late night TV show, he would ask 'what could possibly go wrong?'
-
Received this yesterday from Sure (12 days to eastern US). It's a 15W version of the TPA3110D2. However, when powered with my Astron PS at 13.8V, and low distortion, it's probably only 5-8W (see specs in link below). I had it up and running 5 minutes after it hit the door. Sure uses good packaging.
It seems to have plenty of power to drive low efficiency speakers. The sound stage is huge, there is noticeably more information/detail in the music (over YJ Blue), plenty of bass, and very good separation of instruments, but it's slightly on the bright side. I don't hear any hum. hiss, or ringing yet. I think this board probably sounds better than the stock YJ blue/black board. I paired it with my 6N3 3-Tube preamp and it sounds even better. I requested a schematic from Sure, but don't know if they will comply.
I need to do a lot more listening/comparing with the my modded YJ blue board. The board is loaded with SMD's so probably not much in modding possibilities, at least not for me. The build quality is typical of Sure, everything is straight, true and the board is super clean. Oh...no turn on/off pop! This just might be a good choice for those not wanting to do mods.
Here's some close-ups of the board, maybe you guys can critique the layout, good/bad?
(http://i.imgur.com/q5GGNcml.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LsKRqOul.jpg)
http://store.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board/low-power-100w/aa-ab32996
-
...My 2 cents...
Thanks very much for those excellent suggestions to squeeze a bit more performance from this setup. And sorry for my slow response - I have had an old friend visiting this weekend and have not been online for a couple of days. I don't think my soldering skills are up to everything you mention, but I really appreciate you taking the time to consider and write all that.
Also, after getting the feeling here last week that my cap removal scheme was seen as foolhardy I emailed Scott Frankland at Bybee Labs to enquire further. Scott got back to me superfast and was very helpful. I queried whether it really was considered best to remove all decoupling caps in the circuit powered by the MR. Scott acknowledged that this was the advice given in the app note, but continued that "we have lately found that a good quality cap across the output does improve performance so long as the stability requirement is met." The stability requirement was that the total capacitance across the output of the MR is between 33uF and 470uF. Below 33uF there may be a parasitic oscillation that is not harmful but is degrading to performance.
Now the performance of my amp with MR/no decoupling caps has settled down pretty much - and is excellent. It has come out of the very analytic stage that it went through for a while and is now warm, clear, detailed, just beautiful really. However, in view of what Scott said I will soon try implementing a different board with electrolytics reduced in value and SMD caps still in place.
-
P.S. While my friend was here I replaced the TA2020 board in an amp I made for him a few years ago with an Audiobah board. I replaced the electrolytic caps on the Audiobah board for 2xElna Cerafine 220uF 25v (which fit perfectly) and although it was not the original plan, added a 4,700uF, 40v Mlytic cap near the power input. These improvements made for a nice little amp - the Cerafines brought improvements in clarity and smoothness, while the Mlytic gave it a deeper, more rounded bass sound. I took a couple of pics since randytsuch was so kind before about my wooden boxes.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102195)
-
Here's one I have just finished. It is based on modified Audiobah board, has two inputs, everything is controlled by remote - on/off, volume, input selection. Another identical one is in the pipeline so this may become available for sale.
Audiobah is the best sounding board I have used. Modifications are limited to replacing power supply caps with 2200uf and bypassing them with 3.3uf wimas underneath. There is also a large power supply cap on the power input (next to power relay).
Everything works and sounds just beautiful. I will put dry transfer lettering and logos later.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102240)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102241)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102242)
-
Lovely neat layout Clefchef - I wish my work was so tidy. Did you really get a couple of 2200uF caps onto that Audiobah board, or did you mean 220uF? I am curious what type of caps you used?
I noticed that you stuck to using the onboard connectors. Without ever actually doing listening tests, I have always assumed it is better to replace these with soldered joints for the final installation in a box. I guess the performance advantage is minimal, I just always went on the idea that all connectors are flawed to some extent and that soldered joints are less so (eg. you can hear the differences between RCA sockets, binding posts etc.) If anyone can contradict me here, that might make my life marginally simpler in the future. :)
-
Outstanding! ClefChef.
Hope I get to hear one before you sell them all.
-
Lovely neat layout Clefchef - I wish my work was so tidy. Did you really get a couple of 2200uF caps onto that Audiobah board, or did you mean 220uF? I am curious what type of caps you used?
I noticed that you stuck to using the onboard connectors. Without ever actually doing listening tests, I have always assumed it is better to replace these with soldered joints for the final installation in a box. I guess the performance advantage is minimal, I just always went on the idea that all connectors are flawed to some extent and that soldered joints are less so (eg. you can hear the differences between RCA sockets, binding posts etc.) If anyone can contradict me here, that might make my life marginally simpler in the future. :)
I did indeed put in a couple of Nichicon 2200uf caps. I listened for a bit and decided to replace them with 370uf Panasonic Hybrids that are on the way from Mouser. The quality of capacitors vary, especially when the source is eBay, so listening test is the ultimate test for them.
Onboard connectors are a must in a modular construction - it allows for quick servicing without soldering and de-soldering connections. Performance gains are somewhat negligible :roll: Just look inside your speaker - do you see wires soldered to the drivers and to binding posts?
-
ClefClef, any information on the remote control and the chasis that you are using with the mod? Source that you purchased it from would be helpful.
-
ClefClef, any information on the remote control and the chasis that you are using with the mod? Source that you purchased it from would be helpful.
eBay is your friend :green:
-
Performance gains are somewhat negligible :roll: Just look inside your speaker - do you see wires soldered to the drivers and to binding posts?
I certainly do... but that's 'cos I made 'em! :lol:
-
the other much cheaper greenboard (ebayprices) has a much shorter distance from chip to decoupling ceramics.
(http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/921/187/931/931187921_222.jpg)
Based on observation above by Markvdv I purchased the board (I believe it is known as 'YBDZ' perhaps someone can confirm?) Tested it yesterday and although it had a truly horrendous turn on pop/fart noise, the sound quality exceeded Audiobah quite comfortably. It was noticeably more detailed and refined - despite costing less than 15 USD.
I decided to use this board to replace the "look no caps" Audiobah board that I have been integrating with a Bybee Music Rail. I removed the tiny SMD input caps (it will mate exclusively with my Buffalo DAC which has isolating transformers as the output stage). I soldered some silver wire to the freed-up SMD pads nearest the chip pins (4,5,10 & 11) to take the input signal.
Because of the stability requirement advised by Bybee (total capacitance across power rails >33uF & <470uF) I removed the 3x470uF electrolytics onboard and replaced with 2x47uF 16v Black Gate FK left over from an old project. I do not need this capacitance for bass, just staying within the stability requirement. I fed power+ from the MR to an area of exposed metal between the chip and the electrolytic and power- to the unused signal gnd connection. This gave a nice short path from MR to chip.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102290)
Connected up to the Buffalo and it does sound noticeably better than the already excellent "look no caps" amp. The sound is softer, more intimate, more enveloping. Soundstage is enormous. Also the turn-on pop/fart is gone. I may or may not get around to changing the inductors on this board (and I may still fiddle with other amps for entertainment) but this is basically my system for the next five years or so now. It is by far the best I have ever heard a stereo sound, and I'm gonna relax a bit now and enjoy the music. Cheers to anyone - especially Markvdv - who offered advice. Sorry for all the long posts! :D
-
Based on observation above by Markvdv I purchased the board (I believe it is known as 'YBDZ' perhaps someone can confirm?) Tested it yesterday and although it had a truly horrendous turn on pop/fart noise, the sound quality exceeded Audiobah quite comfortably. It was noticeably more detailed and refined - despite costing less than 15 USD.
The "truly horrendous turn on pop/fart noise" is not synonymous with quality - I wouldn't use this board unless fitted with speaker protection modules. Somehow I think that you may have killed your Audiobah board completely and anything else may sound better now :wink:
-
The "truly horrendous turn on pop/fart noise" is not synonymous with quality - I wouldn't use this board unless fitted with speaker protection modules. Somehow I think that you may have killed your Audiobah board completely and anything else may sound better now :wink:
As I said, the pop is gone. I believe it was a product of a mismatch of input caps (now removed). The Audiobah board is not killed, and if you check the post below you will see that I spent the weekend setting up a different Audiobah board for a friend in a more conventional amp - i.e. just replacing the ecaps for Elna Cerafine and adding a big Mlytic cap near the power input. A setup that is similar and probably sounds much like the one you posted above. Believe me, what I described today sounds a whole world better!!!
P.S...
-
8)dboy. Inputcaps you removed I think were 8uF, that causes pop. But board has connector for SD and mute, a simple switch between SD&mute mutes the amp and between SD and GND puts the amp in standby, both could be used to avoid pop. 8uF value is I think to have lossless bass respons even when gain is set to highest 36dB, it is 26dB standard on Wiener (30C=20K). Transformers are better :D
Probably very little room to improve further, Wurth inductors might be little better for high frequency detail, polyprop filtercapacitors may also sound a little better. Values chosen for speakers used. Gainsetting 20dB could have little less distortion if inputlevel is high I feel but I haven't compared that on transformers on input. Inputimpedance changes too, there might be a best match setting for the transformers you used.
-
Hey - there you go giving me more to think about when I want to just relax and spin some tunes! :green:
You make good points of course. I think especially the matter of input impedance may leave room for a worthwhile tweak to match better with the transformers (Sowter 3575). I have plenty of spare volume. For now though I want to let the system settle down and to get really used to how it sounds so it is easier to hear the effects of any fine tuning. Thanks again for all of your input - I'll report back when the time comes to try your suggestions!
-
After 24 hour burn-in period the amp has opened up quite nicely - it sounds excellent. After all those Nichicon FM 2200uf caps with Wima bypasses underneath work perfect.
-
eBay is your friend :green:
Have spent plenty of time on ebay already looking for a remote solution, before I found your post of July 14th with the great picture.
Had found this for vol only: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6CH-Remote-Motor-ALPS-Volume-Potentiometer-Control-Adjust-50K-6-W-Remote-/201077764009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed12b2fa9&_uhb=1
There are plenty with multiple inputs (4-6), but yours seems to only have two which is ideal, can you please help us out with a source ?
-
Have spent plenty of time on ebay already looking for a remote solution, before I found your post of July 14th with the great picture.
Had found this for vol only: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6CH-Remote-Motor-ALPS-Volume-Potentiometer-Control-Adjust-50K-6-W-Remote-/201077764009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed12b2fa9&_uhb=1
There are plenty with multiple inputs (4-6), but yours seems to only have two which is ideal, can you please help us out with a source ?
There are plenty of 2 channel relay boards on eBay, you would have to modify them a bit. The remote you posted has 4 input selector + on/off channel. To use 2 input channels you have to bridge 1+3 and 2+4 on the remote. The remote puts out +5V signal on the input select channels, so you could either use 5V relay boards and drive relays directly (remote provides enough current for that) or use 12V relay boards and drive them via on-board trigger circuitry.
On/off channel is a "shunt" channel (board controls connection to ground) so your voltage there depends on the positive voltage provided (e.g. drive 12V on/off relay with +12V or 24V relay with +24V, etc.) You would use the on/off channel relay to control the power supply to your TPA3116 board.
On my amp you can see a LT7812 (attached to the bottom next to the relay) to provide 12V for the remote board and the on/off relay (next to the 7812). 7812 also protects the remote board from your main power source which is going to be somewhere between 18-24V. Remote board has its own LT7805 so you can feed it 9-15V.
Here's the relay board similar to what I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400272908552?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You need to parallel the outputs, remove all the resistors and transistors and connect the remote board switching signal wires directly to relay coil legs.
I blew up the picture for greater detail on the remote board. The channel control pins are marked Q4-Q8 on the board with Q9 being ground pin. In order to have 2 instead of 4 inputs provided by the board you have to bridge Q4 with Q6 and Q5 with Q7 (blue lines), and use the +5V and Ground signal to control the input selection relays.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102482)
-
There are plenty of 2 channel relay boards on eBay, you would have to modify them a bit. The remote you posted has 4 input selector + on/off channel. To use 2 input channels you have to bridge 1+3 and 2+4 on the remote. The remote puts out +5V signal on the input select channels, so you could either use 5V relay boards and drive relays directly (remote provides enough current for that) or use 12V relay boards and drive them via on-board trigger circuitry.
On/off channel is a "shunt" channel (board controls connection to ground) so your voltage there depends on the positive voltage provided (e.g. drive 12V on/off relay with +12V or 24V relay with +24V, etc.) You would use the on/off channel relay to control the power supply to your TPA3116 board.
On my amp you can see a LT7812 (attached to the bottom next to the relay) to provide 12V for the remote board and the on/off relay (next to the 7812). 7812 also protects the remote board from your main power source which is going to be somewhere between 18-24V. Remote board has its own LT7805 so you can feed it 9-15V.
Here's the relay board similar to what I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400272908552?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You need to parallel the outputs, remove all the resistors and transistors and connect the remote board switching signal wires directly to relay coil legs.
I blew up the picture for greater detail on the remote board. The channel control pins are marked Q4-Q8 on the board with Q9 being ground pin. In order to have 2 instead of 4 inputs provided by the board you have to bridge Q4 with Q6 and Q5 with Q7 (blue lines), and use the +5V and Ground signal to control the input selection relays.
Wow, thankyou so much for the great detail, was looking specifically for a remote kit with only the 2 inputs, I see your approach, ......now I have a lot to read and digest in your post .... thanks muchly :D
-
ClefChef's the man!
-
I did some more experimentation on one of my Audiobah amplifiers - I replaced SMD signal coupling 1uf caps with 3.3uf wima. There are two input caps and two AC to ground caps, all four have to be identical. On the board these caps are marked C15, C16, C18, and C7. After replacing signal coupling caps with bigger ones you also need to replace a reservoir cap in the startup mute circuit (C5). This capacitor sets the mute interval that blocks turn-on pop while the input capacitors are charging, original value seems to be more than 4.7uf (the limit on my Fluke tester :(). Now that we have larger input caps the mute interval becomes too short and turn-on pop will go boom through your speakers. I used 47uf lytic and that seems to have done the trick - amplifier un-mutes couple of seconds after applying power, no pops - no noises.
Wimas sound a lot better, no doubt.
The procedure requires fine point soldering iron and steady hands :green:
Audiobah board seems to be easily convertible to differential inputs (balanced), which would be worthwhile in my case. I was going to build two small TDA3116 mono-block amplifiers with ferrite bead output filters and 1' speaker cables that would attach directly to speaker binding posts (cling-on amplifiers). Balanced connection in such scenario is a must in my opinion.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102493)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102494)
-
Look at output and what happens there on "audiobah".
Voltage coefficient of smd ceramics makes using them in amplifier output(filter) tricky, next to that there is distortion to consider when chosing the correct ceramic smd there. I don't feel you can reasonably expect smd ceramics in output on a $8 ampboard to be close to optimal. Using filmcap there like many other manufacturers do is an easier and wiser choice IMO.
-
Gainsetting 20dB could have little less distortion if inputlevel is high I feel but I haven't compared that on transformers on input. Inputimpedance changes too, there might be a best match setting for the transformers you used.
Although I wasn't going to tweak for a bit, I couldn't resist trying this. Not that there was any problem with distortion or hiss (speakers silent with ear up close). But it makes sense that a higher input impedance would work better with the transformers (10k:10k nominally).
The eBay listing I bought the board from said gain was 36db, but the resistor (R2) that I removed from the board was 100k, which concurs with your (markvdv) assertion of 26db. I left the other resistor unchanged on assumption that the value did not have to match with datasheet value since it is a voltage divider and R2 is left open for 20db. I think I have read that this is OK?
Anyway, gain does seem reduced. The bass is stronger and the sound generally is weightier, although dynamics may be slightly less. Still, there is no shortage of dynamics. Overall, this is definitely an improvement. So if anyone else is tempted to try input transformers, my experience suggests to go for the lowest gain.
-
Although I wasn't going to tweak for a bit, I couldn't resist trying this. Not that there was any problem with distortion or hiss (speakers silent with ear up close). But it makes sense that a higher input impedance would work better with the transformers (10k:10k nominally).
The eBay listing I bought the board from said gain was 36db, but the resistor (R2) that I removed from the board was 100k, which concurs with your (markvdv) assertion of 26db. I left the other resistor unchanged on assumption that the value did not have to match with datasheet value since it is a voltage divider and R2 is left open for 20db. I think I have read that this is OK?
Anyway, gain does seem reduced. The bass is stronger and the sound generally is weightier, although dynamics may be slightly less. Still, there is no shortage of dynamics. Overall, this is definitely an improvement. So if anyone else is tempted to try input transformers, my experience suggests to go for the lowest gain.
TI TPA3116D2 spec sheet Page 15.
In Master mode:
For 20db: R1=5.6K, R2 Open, Input impedance = 60k, input coupling caps = 1.5uf
For 26db: R1=20K, R2=100k, input impedance = 30k, input coupling caps = 3.3uf
For 32db: R1=39k, R2=100k, input impedance = 15k, input coupling caps = 5.6uf
For 36db" R1=47k, R2=75k, input impedance = 6k, input coupling caps = 10uf
26db seems to be more or less optimal.
-
For 36db" R1=47k, R2=75k, input impedance = 9k
I have no experience with transformer "coupling", tube guys can probably immediatly tell you how amps input impedance combines with 10k:10k transformer.
-
Hi clefchef - thanks for that but not sure you got the point. I do not have any input capacitors - the balanced inputs of the tpa3116 go directly to the secondary windings of a pair of Sowter 3575 signal isolating transformers. These transformers are the output stage of my es9018 Buffalo dac. There are no other caps, connectors or components other than wire & solder between the es9018 and the tpa3116. The goal is a simple/pure signal path for the most natural sound. It is a rather wonderful arrangement and I would encourage others to experiment with transformers instead of capacitors on the input pins of tpa3116. My post was to report that lowering gain to raise input impedance of tpa3116 to 60K provided best match with the transformers, resulting in better sound.
I would also encourage others to experiment with a Bybee Music Rail providing power to tpa3116. After a slightly shaky start this has turned out to be a great success for me - boosting the performance of an ultra-simple linear supply enormously. Takes bloody ages to burn in, so don't be fooled by that, but when it gets there it is downright remarkable. Haven't tried an Astron so cannot compare, but would be surprised if the Astron beat this. N.B. Partsconnexion currently has a 20 percent sale!
-
Cheers Markvdv, I am confident now that 20db gives best sound (in my unique arrangement). The bass is stronger, warmer and more detailed.
-
Hi clefchef - thanks for that but not sure you got the point. I do not have any input capacitors - the balanced inputs of the tpa3116 go directly to the secondary windings of a pair of Sowter 3575 signal isolating transformers. These transformers are the output stage of my es9018 Buffalo dac. There are no other caps, connectors or components other than wire & solder between the es9018 and the tpa3116. The goal is a simple/pure signal path for the most natural sound. It is a rather wonderful arrangement and I would encourage others to experiment with transformers instead of capacitors on the input pins of tpa3116. My post was to report that lowering gain to raise input impedance of tpa3116 to 60K provided best match with the transformers, resulting in better sound.
I would also encourage others to experiment with a Bybee Music Rail providing power to tpa3116. After a slightly shaky start this has turned out to be a great success for me - boosting the performance of an ultra-simple linear supply enormously. Takes bloody ages to burn in, so don't be fooled by that, but when it gets there it is downright remarkable. Haven't tried an Astron so cannot compare, but would be surprised if the Astron beat this. N.B. Partsconnexion currently has a 20 percent sale!
I got your point. The capacitor indication has nothing to do with input impedance, it just gives you the capacitor value for flat low frequency response given that input impedance. I agree that transformers are a lot better choice than capacitors, and transformers at the amplifier inputs could be used to accommodate balanced AND single-ended signal connection with ease (secondaries to TPA3116, primaries to signal +- for balanced or +to signal, - to ground for single ended).
I built a dac myself with transformer outputs (ASC LL88) and it sounded great.
-
I built a dac myself with transformer outputs (ASC LL88) and it sounded great.
Plug 'er in! The best input cap is no input cap! :eyebrows:
-
Heads up, SURE finaly has their TPA3116 board up on the BAY.
Second comment is that the title for this thread appears to have a typo "TPS3116" rather than "TPA3116". Can this be corrected?
-
The Astron is taking the TPA to that 'set-like' performance...
I'm listening to the TPA with an Astron and it seems to be a huge upgrade.
There's room inside the Astron to mount a TPA and space on the back for connections.
Would this be a bad idea?
-
Some mentioned heatsinks Astron get very hot, how warm is it inside the Astron? The little Sure ceramics I know to be very temperature sensitive, don't know about the ceramics used on "audiobah" or if higher inductortemperature also means lowered inductance? Astron transformer could have some magnetic field to keep out off, and maybe TPAchip the other way could transmit polution into Astron? The TPA has all bad things a SMPS has, so you might need to shield the Astron from TPA.
-
Haven't noticed any heat from the Astron so far.
Seems like the TPA with HE speakers would be a very benign load.
-
Haven't noticed any heat from the Astron so far.
Mine runs stone cold too.
-
I'm dumb when it comes to electronics. I'm looking locally and on ebay for an Astron and often times some of the better deals are for 35 amps or more. Is that much power going to kill my little TPA3116, or will the board simply draw what it needs and no more?
-
will the board simply draw what it needs and no more?
Yes, it will just draw what it needs.
I just bought a RS-12A. The TPA won't draw anything near what this Astron will put out, but it won't hurt anything.
Randy
-
Thanks!
I actually just found this tidbit on a HAM website as I was waiting for a response:
"Don’t worry about buying a power supply with too much current capacity. Your equipment will only draw the current it needs—no more, no less. In fact, it is probably safe to say that you can never have too much current capacity. It may seem economically foolish to invest $200 in a 25-A power supply when all you want to power is a 5-W handheld radio. However, if you think you’ll be upgrading to a larger radio in the near future, you may want to get the big power supply today (especially if you find a great deal on a high-current supply)."
-
Texas Instruments prints this for powersupply requirement in their setup guide.
Voltage Range Current Requirement
4.5 V to 26 V 8 A
-
Received this yesterday from Sure (12 days to eastern US). It's a 15W version of the TPA3110D2. However, when powered with my Astron PS at 13.8V, and low distortion, it's probably only 5-8W (see specs in link below). I had it up and running 5 minutes after it hit the door. Sure uses good packaging.
It seems to have plenty of power to drive low efficiency speakers. The sound stage is huge, there is noticeably more information/detail in the music (over YJ Blue), plenty of bass, and very good separation of instruments, but it's slightly on the bright side. I don't hear any hum. hiss, or ringing yet. I think this board probably sounds better than the stock YJ blue/black board. I paired it with my 6N3 3-Tube preamp and it sounds even better. I requested a schematic from Sure, but don't know if they will comply.
I need to do a lot more listening/comparing with the my modded YJ blue board. The board is loaded with SMD's so probably not much in modding possibilities, at least not for me. The build quality is typical of Sure, everything is straight, true and the board is super clean. Oh...no turn on/off pop! This just might be a good choice for those not wanting to do mods.
Here's some close-ups of the board, maybe you guys can critique the layout, good/bad?
(http://i.imgur.com/q5GGNcml.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LsKRqOul.jpg)
http://store.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board/low-power-100w/aa-ab32996
Been listening for a couple weeks now, still think this board is a winner.....
As someone suggested on DIY Audio, I replaced the four 220uF electrolytics per side with a pair of 330uF Oscons. Definite improvement that's worth doing.
(http://i.imgur.com/WnXU10Tl.jpg)
-
Thanks Lacro. Just what I need--another round of TPA31xx amps to purchase. :roll:
Did adding the OSCONs tame the brightness you mentioned earlier? Or did this seem to fade as you burned in the amp?
-
Thanks Lacro. Just what I need--another round of TPA31xx amps to purchase. :roll:
Did adding the OSCONs tame the brightness you mentioned earlier? Or did this seem to fade as you burned in the amp?
I know your not going to sit back and watch others have all the fun :P
The brightness subsided after 10 hours or so of play time with the stock board. The Oscons just made everything smoother (after burn in), and really enhanced the base. I wonder if four more would help even further?
-
I know your not going to sit back and watch others have all the fun :P
The brightness subsided after 10 hours or so of play time with the stock board. The Oscons just made everything smoother (after burn in), and really enhanced the base. I wonder if four more would help even further?
More bass likely
-
I know your not going to sit back and watch others have all the fun :P
The brightness subsided after 10 hours or so of play time with the stock board. The Oscons just made everything smoother (after burn in), and really enhanced the base. I wonder if four more would help even further?
Of course not. I ordered a TPA3116 amp from Sure Electronics this morning. It does seem that the brightness and sibilance does subside as these amps break in. The Panasonic OSCONs really do a nice job with these Texas Instruments amps. I would try adding a couple more and see what happens. Like Salis Audio said, you'll probably get more bass, but not in the sense that it will be more boomy or flabby. This, of course, will depend on the frequency range of your speakers.
-
Of course not. I ordered a TPA3116 amp from Sure Electronics this morning. It does seem that the brightness and sibilance does subside as these amps break in. The Panasonic OSCONs really do a nice job with these Texas Instruments amps. I would try adding a couple more and see what happens. Like Salis Audio said, you'll probably get more bass, but not in the sense that it will be more boomy or flabby. This, of course, will depend on the frequency range of your speakers.
Rhing, what's the count of tpa311x amps that have passed through your hands now? :)
The problem with these being so cheap is it makes it too easy to rationalize buying 10x more than I need.
I'm up to: two YJ blue/black, two Ybdz "Wiener", the original Sure 3110, and now on order: the new Sure 3110, Sure 3116, and two mono DUG group buy boards.
-
Let's see...
3x Sure TPA3110, filter-less
3x Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amps
1x SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 amp
1x. Sure TPA3116 on order
There's some method to the madness as these amps are affordable and really help those in experimenting without fear of losing a lot of money. I cut my teeth on modifying Sonic Impact T-amps that sold for $39, and everyone thought those were a steal.
By the way, my wife has scheduled an intercession for amplifier addiction.
-
Here are couple of builds:
The first one is preamp-power amp set with remote, on/off trigger control. The preamp is based on relay stepped attenuator, the power amp on modified Audiobah board.
The second one is "integrated" version.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103852)
The diminutive 3116 is now a stand-in for LDM300b during hot summer months - the sound quality is that good.
-
Here's my 3116 mounted and internally wired to an Astron power supply. The Astron takes it to another level.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103863)
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103866)
-
How are you guys doing the face plate labeling? It looks 'sweet' :thumb:
-
How are you guys doing the face plate labeling? It looks 'sweet' :thumb:
Nothing special in my case, just small stick on letters.
-
I just wanted to note that it is an easy and very worthwhile improvement to the YBDZ/Wiener board to swap the inductors for the Bourns 9.3A ones. I am clumsy and not very skilled at tricky manoeuvres on small PCBs, but it went smoothly. You have to bend over a couple of the capacitors which are sticking up and mount the inductors so that they sit partially above these. I stuck loads of Blu-tack on and between the inductors to provide some damping as they felt a little wobbly and I was worried this might affect the sound.
Needless to say the replacement provides a very good improvement in sound quality. I don't think the big Coilcraft ones would fit unfortunately, but these are great. I really like Elna Cerafine 220uF 25v too. :)
-
I just wanted to note that it is an easy and very worthwhile improvement to the YBDZ/Wiener board to swap the inductors for the Bourns 9.3A ones. I am clumsy and not very skilled at tricky manoeuvres on small PCBs, but it went smoothly. You have to bend over a couple of the capacitors which are sticking up and mount the inductors so that they sit partially above these. I stuck loads of Blu-tack on and between the inductors to provide some damping as they felt a little wobbly and I was worried this might affect the sound.
Needless to say the replacement provides a very good improvement in sound quality. I don't think the big Coilcraft ones would fit unfortunately, but these are great. I really like Elna Cerafine 220uF 25v too. :)
To fit the big Coilcraft inductors, you would have to remove the neighboring output filter film caps and reinstall them from the underside of the amp. That's what I did with my Yuan Jing blue amp, and it worked out well. You might even have to move the power supply decoupling caps to the other side.
That said, the Bourns are fine inductors too and the difference between the CoilCrafts and the Bourns might not be significant enough to change them.
Please include photos to help others who might be interested in performing similar mods.
-
Rhing, I bow to your greater modding skills - those are fine suggestions to mount the Coilcraft. I should probably be more adventurous but hey, the Bourns sound great and doing it this way was just so easy (considering big inductors/compact board).
I'll try to take some photos tomorrow but my wife has borrowed the good camera and gone away for a short trip, plus the board is mounted in a box. So photo quality might not be so helpful. Anyway, I make no claim that my way was the only or the best possible.
BTW, have you got your transformers set up yet? I don't do so well at keeping up with the diyaudio thread, but would be interested in any results relating to transformers if you don't mind posting here too.
-
Best photos I could get without unmounting the board and I try to minimize this to avoid weakening where I have wires soldered to SMD pads to go to transformers (I don't want the pads to lift). I'm sure it could be done much neater than this, but the quality of the sound I'm getting leaves me satisfied. :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103978)
-
Rhing, I bow to your greater modding skills - those are fine suggestions to mount the Coilcraft. I should probably be more adventurous but hey, the Bourns sound great and doing it this way was just so easy (considering big inductors/compact board).
I'll try to take some photos tomorrow but my wife has borrowed the good camera and gone away for a short trip, plus the board is mounted in a box. So photo quality might not be so helpful. Anyway, I make no claim that my way was the only or the best possible.
BTW, have you got your transformers set up yet? I don't do so well at keeping up with the diyaudio thread, but would be interested in any results relating to transformers if you don't mind posting here too.
Talk is cheap, and modding is always easier said than done. Actually, you did an admirable job fitting those Bourns inductors into such a confined space. I'm sure you'll hear the subtle improvements that the new inductors make on your amp. I find that the Bourns and CoilCraft inductors allow more fine detail to come through.
My CineMag input transformers are due to arrive in a couple days. CineMag builds these to order, so it took about two weeks for them to fulfill the order. Maybe in hindsight, I should have spent the extra money and purchased the Jensen JT-11P-1. When the CineMags come in, I will use them with my modified YJ blue amp. I'll remove the caps and solder the transformer leads into the thru-holes closest to the TPA3116 IC.
In the meantime, my new Sure TPA3116 amp arrived and I installed it on a makeshift chassis. Unfortunately, when it was time to connect the amp to the power supply, the Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector wouldn't fit into the on board DC power connector. So I had to solder in a 2P terminal block and wire in a mating Switchcraft DC power connector. I also added four 2,200uF/25V Panasonic FM electrolytic caps for off board power supply capacitance.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103989)
I have to give this amp some time to settle in, but in stock form, it's very impressive and sounds better than the YJ blue amp in stock form. It does have slightly more hiss than my modified YJ blue amp.
-
Worse then current YJblueblack is hardly possible, but stock Sure3116 does try hard :) I bet it is worst sounding TPA3116 completely stock, because you already had to mod speaker output :D
-
Worse then current YJblueblack is hardly possible, but stock Sure3116 does try hard :) I bet it is worst sounding TPA3116 completely stock, because you already had to mod speaker output :D
You bring up a good point. If you look at the photo of the Sure TPA3116 amp in my post, my speaker connections from left to right are L CH + , L CH -, R CH + , R CH - while the speaker connections are labeled as + , - , - , +. KJA 2013 on the diyAudio.com thread raised the issue of out-of-phase speaker connections following the board labels. Hopefully, Sure Electronics will correct this.
-
Talk is cheap, and modding is always easier said than done. Actually, you did an admirable job fitting those Bourns inductors into such a confined space. I'm sure you'll hear the subtle improvements that the new inductors make on your amp. I find that the Bourns and CoilCraft inductors allow more fine detail to come through.
Cheers - kind words. The improvement did not seem subtle at all. The word 'detail' does not really capture what is going on now. Every note or sound that comes through just seems incredibly rich and complex. Every recording I play is infinitely fascinating. When I started playing with these amps a few months ago (after a few years off DIY after my kid was born) I had no idea it could go to this kind of level. The only minor drawback is that the studio polish on many recordings just seems so in your face now.
But you are right... talk is cheap. :wink:
-
My expectation is that with using the CineMag input transformers, I will hear more of the music like you are. Some people on these forums abhor detailed descriptions, so I use the word "detail" in the broadest sense. With the upgrade in output filter inductors, especially with low DCR and high current capability, I hear more timbral detail, complete notes from attack to decay, and greater transients. You are correct that with the refinement in the amp's performance you can hear more shortcomings in the recording and/or mastering, if there are any. That's probably why I find myself lately purchasing high end vinyl like the Analog Productions RCA Living Stereo remastered recordings and the Music Matters Blue Note remastered 33.33 RPM LPs. However, I haven't brought myself to purchasing the Electric Recording Company LPs selling for over $600 USD.
I just attended the California Audio Show featuring some very high end gear, and my friend and I agreed that a properly implemented TPA3116 amp can stand on its own with many of the amps we heard. I think that's the draw of these amps--that they can perform at a very high level at a fraction of the cost of more expensive amplifiers. The trick is matching speakers with these amps.
-
My expectation is that with using the CineMag input transformers, I will hear more of the music like you are. Some people on these forums abhor detailed descriptions, so I use the word "detail" in the broadest sense. With the upgrade in output filter inductors, especially with low DCR and high current capability, I hear more timbral detail, complete notes from attack to decay, and greater transients. You are correct that with the refinement in the amp's performance you can hear more shortcomings in the recording and/or mastering, if there are any. That's probably why I find myself lately purchasing high end vinyl like the Analog Productions RCA Living Stereo remastered recordings and the Music Matters Blue Note remastered 33.33 RPM LPs. However, I haven't brought myself to purchasing the Electric Recording Company LPs selling for over $600 USD.
I just attended the California Audio Show featuring some very high end gear, and my friend and I agreed that a properly implemented TPA3116 amp can stand on its own with many of the amps we heard. I think that's the draw of these amps--that they can perform at a very high level at a fraction of the cost of more expensive amplifiers. The trick is matching speakers with these amps.
Do you have a pre-amp buffer? The transformer will act like a pre-amp buffer in many ways. I don't know what I'd prefer, DC coupled buffer or a transformer. There's super high end gear that uses transformers, and lots that does not.
-
Personally, I'm a sucker for passive solutions but then I've never had the resources to experience any super high end stuff. As a total amateur at this, I like the idea of passive on many levels too... keeping things simple, natural sound, easier to DIY, less to go wrong over time, less parts to buy so you can afford better quality ones, etc...
Eg. I got my isolating transformers wound with OCC wire for a few quid extra. When I bought 'em a few years ago (for the DAC) I probably would not have heard a huge difference, but I'm pretty sure that decision is paying off now. The more the resolution of the system improves, the more those little decisions matter, I think, especially when the guiding philosophy is simplicity.
I could be talking out of my rear though! :green:
-
I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!
Here's the results:
Board after several mods
(http://i.imgur.com/jO0I7Hrl.jpg)
Case I chose
(http://i.imgur.com/8CK2toql.jpg)
The board with all connection ready for stuffing!
(http://i.imgur.com/EvFZ4dHl.jpg)
The finished product
(http://i.imgur.com/78OpsIkl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MfixAvpl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kmadz34l.jpg)
-
Do you have a pre-amp buffer? The transformer will act like a pre-amp buffer in many ways. I don't know what I'd prefer, DC coupled buffer or a transformer. There's super high end gear that uses transformers, and lots that does not.
I have an Audio Research LS7 tube line stage with unbalanced outputs. My objective is to use both differential inputs in each channel for better noise rejection and improved sound quality by eliminating input capacitors. dboy and another UK member of the diyAudio.com thread have had great results using transformers in their DAC or amp inputs.
I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!
Very nice work lacro, and great use of the Sure Electronics case.
-
I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!
Nice work lacro!
I used the next-larger Sure case from Parts Express for my 3110 build (my first 311x build). Larger case and smaller PCB, so an easier fit overall. Those are pretty nice cases, especially for the price, but my main complaint is that the main body isn't split.
How did you mount the PCB to the chassis? In my case, I fixed the standoffs to the PCB, and then line those up with the holes in the chassis. Works fine, just not as convenient as having a removable top. But on the other hand, it saves having to drill all the binding post and RCA holes.
My other annoyance with those cases is the square cutout for the power receptacle. Mine just has wires hanging out the back. :) Not nearly as clean as your solution.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96750)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96751)
-
Nice work lacro!
I used the next-larger Sure case from Parts Express for my 3110 build (my first 311x build). Larger case and smaller PCB, so an easier fit overall. Those are pretty nice cases, especially for the price, but my main complaint is that the main body isn't split.
How did you mount the PCB to the chassis? In my case, I fixed the standoffs to the PCB, and then line those up with the holes in the chassis. Works fine, just not as convenient as having a removable top. But on the other hand, it saves having to drill all the binding post and RCA holes.
My other annoyance with those cases is the square cutout for the power receptacle. Mine just has wires hanging out the back. :) Not nearly as clean as your solution.
Thanks Matt!
The Sure cases are pretty well made. I agree the split cases like Rhing uses are good choice, I bought a couple of the Sure cases from PE when I was ordering other stuff. I was intending to mount 3110 amps in them, but the challenge of fitting the larger amp got the best me :nono: I almost gave up a couple times.....
I too fixed stand-offs (nylon) to the board, but they were too long, even though they were only 1/4" long, so I sanded them a little shorter so the Big Wima caps would clear the top. I drilled holes in the bottom to match the stand offs, and fixed them with nylon machine screws.
Mounting the DC jack was pretty easy by attaching a small sheet of carbon fiber with screws over the square hole on the inside. The switch mounting required counter boring a hole on the back side of the front panel for the switch to recess into because the front panel was too thick for the switch I had.
The board fits inside the chassis with no side clearance, and only a total of 1/2" in length in which all the connectors, the pot, and the switch must fit. It was a real challenge :scratch: However, it was a fun project that looks and pretty darn good, and sounds awesome!
I probably won't do any more mods to this one except maybe try the boostrap snubber mod if there is enough room left under the board. I have two other blue/black boards to play with as my soldering/de-soldering skills keep improving.
-
Good day, honourable experts.
After a long and useless search for my answer, I turn to you.
Is it possible to revive a TPA3116 2.1 amp made by Yuan Jing, if the power leads from battery were connected in reverse?
Or should I just order a new amp?
Cheers.
-
Not an expert myself, but since nobody else is wading in, I'll offer my opinion, which someone may then contradict.
I would expect that the parts most likely to be damaged by this are the chips and the electrolytic capacitors. I would replace the electrolytic caps, then connect the board up for test with an old set of speakers (or drivers) that you are willing to sacrifice. You can probably test bass channel separately without any harm. If it works, pat yourself on the back. If it doesn't then the chips have departed this world to dwell with their ancestors in silicon heaven. If you don't have disposable speakers then just buy a new board.
If you have a low voltage PSU (5v; 9v) then you could perhaps use this for the test.
My best guess at this.... :?
-
It's true, capacitors blow up when they're applied a reverse polarity and they aren't bi-polar. POP, yes they can make that sound.
The chip? Well... there's a lot of tiny little switches in it and ya, they could be damaged.
The inductors and all SMD/film caps shouldn't be harmed at all.
-
The tpa3116d2 chip seems to have lots of protections according to the datasheet, but I did not see reverse polarity listed as one of them. Lauris, please let us know how you get on, just to satisfy curiosity.
-
You were right about the chip. At least it seams so.
I replaced 3 smaller caps with no luck. The board wouldn't even power up. Just blinking led and the same on the powersupply.
Well, the stupid ones pay double the price.
Just ordered a new board.
Whats interesting is that theres no visual clues of something being blown. All the caps seem intact as well as smd. Must be the chip then. I own a smaller brother of this board= tpa3110 and it has a reverse polarity protection, which i tried. Nothing bad happened to the board.
Thanks for your input, diyers.
Much appreciated.
-
As Rhing said a bit ago, the beauty of these boards is they cost so little that you can afford to experiment / mess up occasionally and it doesn't break the bank. Everyone makes mistakes occasionally. Even me. :icon_lol:
-
Yeah, and its very addictive. I want to buy more and more of them and fit them in everywhere, make boomboxes etc.
Went to antiques store the other day and every single box i saw was a case for an amplifier.
-
I followed dboy's lead and installed a pair of CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers on my modified Yuan Jing blue amp. This has to be the ultimate mod for these amps. The soundstage is huge and the tonality is so natural. I wouldn't recommend this for a desktop computer system, but if you use these TI Class D amps in your main system, this should be a serious consideration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104217)
-
Fantastic Rhing. Very glad you like this, although Sharpi31 on Diyaudio deserves the credit as first here, not me.
If I remember correctly from several years ago when I first installed transformers in my dac, they took quite a while to reach their best performance. So you may have further treats to look forward to (although different transformers so no guarantee).
Your results mirror mine - the size of the soundstage was the thing that really hit me at first. Then the sense of intimacy with appropriate recordings.
Are you still using your line stage as well or have you removed that from the equation now? I was a little unclear when you wrote about your intention here a few days ago.
-
Rhing, another question if I may. Do you have any hum coming through the speakers if there is no component turned on connected to the transformer primaries. I found I got a hum if my dac was off but the amp turned on. I avoid that happening now by having the power transformers for both in the same box, fed by the same power inlet. But I am curious whether this happens for you too.
-
I have been listening to my original 2x8 W TPA 3110 modded board for a week now. It's one of my original TPA's I started with a year ago. It's the first time I tried it with my Astron SL-11A plus my YJ 3 tube preamp and it sounds absolutely astonishing! I have ALWAYS felt the TPA 3116 doesn't have anything over the 2X8 W TPA3110, and I still feel this way!
Update: I just received a parts order from Digi-Key, which included 2 Panny FM's to replace some caps in my Astron PS. I had no idea they would improve the SQ of this already great sounding PS. The best $2 spent on this hobby! Most of these Astron's we are finding used are somewhat 'vintage' and replacing a couple of caps with new/better ones is worth doing. Thanks - Rhing!
-
Rhing, another question if I may. Do you have any hum coming through the speakers if there is no component turned on connected to the transformer primaries. I found I got a hum if my dac was off but the amp turned on. I avoid that happening now by having the power transformers for both in the same box, fed by the same power inlet. But I am curious whether this happens for you too.
I have not heard any hum issues since I've connected the input transformers in my YJ blue amp. I always have everything connected before I power up equipment. First I start with source equipment and work my way to the power amp. When powering off, I work in reverse order starting with the power amplifier and work my way backwards through the chain to the source equipment. I learned this working with pro audio systems where you could easily blow out speakers and amps. A sound systems consultant who used to be the concert sound engineer for Van Halen taught me this simple rule.
This guy had golden ears too. I had never seen anyone EQ a room with a complex dBX room correction system by ear before. He opened my eyes to Allen & Heath mixers and Lab Gruppen Class D pro audio amps--high end pro audio gear. That's why I'm stuck on Class D amps and using balanced inputs now.
Fantastic Rhing. Very glad you like this, although Sharpi31 on Diyaudio deserves the credit as first here, not me.
If I remember correctly from several years ago when I first installed transformers in my dac, they took quite a while to reach their best performance. So you may have further treats to look forward to (although different transformers so no guarantee).
Your results mirror mine - the size of the soundstage was the thing that really hit me at first. Then the sense of intimacy with appropriate recordings.
Are you still using your line stage as well or have you removed that from the equation now? I was a little unclear when you wrote about your intention here a few days ago.
The soundstage with the input transformers is incredible, but it's also the transparency of the amp that impresses me too. I hear more music; it actually sounds like it's playing louder, but not in any obnoxious way. It also seems like the dynamic range has increased like there is no ceiling to transients, especially loud events like thwacks on drums.
I am still using my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage preamp along with my Audio Research PH5 tube phono stage. With tubes up front, I get more of that holographic magic that tubes can produce.
-
Great stuff! It sounds like your blue/black board is finally ready to go into a cool enclosure. There cannot be much more improving to be done.
... Oh wait, what was that about a snubber thingummy? :wink:
-
Great stuff! It sounds like your blue/black board is finally ready to go into a cool enclosure. There cannot be much more improving to be done.
... Oh wait, what was that about a snubber thingummy? :wink:
Yes, the bootstrap snubber mod. I have small caps and resistors to do this mod, but wanted to try the CineMags first. At this point, I am not sure I'm going to do this since I have a couple amplifiers that have the bootstrap snubber already in place: the Sure TPA3116 (on underside of amp board) and the SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 (next to bootstrap caps on top of board), and the YJ blue amp sounds better than both. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? :nono:
I'm still trying to decide on an enclosure for this amp. I really like colorful stomp boxes using Hammond die cast Aluminum enclosures, but I also like black enclosures with thick, brushed Aluminum faceplates. I still have a brand new HiFi 2000 Galaxy Maggiorato 230mm x 170mm enclosure with a 10mm thick face plate. I used one of these for an earlier modded YJ blue amp build, which I sold to a friend who shoved aside his 300B SET monoblocks in favor of the TPA3116 amp.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=95696)
Update: I just received a parts order from Digi-Key, which included 2 Panny FM's to replace some caps in my Astron PS. I had no idea they would improve the SQ of this already great sounding PS. The best $2 spent on this hobby! Most of these Astron's we are finding used are somewhat 'vintage' and replacing a couple of caps with new/better ones is worth doing. Thanks - Rhing!
That's great lacro. You're welcome. Maybe we'll have to revisit that larger blue tank cap in there too. Getting a good regulated linear power supply is probably the single most important mod for these TPA31xx Class D amps. They are 90% efficient, so the power supply path is just as important as the signal path. After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.
-
After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.
That Reality Cable power cord is an unbelievable improvement. That improves the sound as much as the Astron Power Supply made in my system. I would never have had to believe it if I had never heard it.
-
That's great lacro. You're welcome. Maybe we'll have to revisit that larger blue tank cap in there too. Getting a good regulated linear power supply is probably the single most important mod for these TPA31xx Class D amps. They are 90% efficient, so the power supply path is just as important as the signal path. After that, using good wire for a DC power cable, good power connectors and a quality power switch are next. Of course, using good power supply DC decoupling caps on the amp board are critical. So far, many of us have found the Panasonic SEPF OSCONs to work very well. If you stopped there, you've achieved high end audio results.
Rhing:
I am ready to revisit the big blue cap if you have a suggestion? I agree the Oscons are hot ticket so far for the DC decoupling caps. I have tried them on 3 different boards so far with positive results :thumb:
Just today I stripped everything I could from a 2x8 3110 board I had modded many times resulting in burning out some through holes.
I want to mount this board in a tiny box. I installed the Oscon caps on the underside of the board, and ran the leads through the burned out through holes onto the pads on top. The power input through holes were also burned out so I had to find an alternative.
The rats nest wiring shown in the photos is just me making sure it's worth proceeding with my mini box idea. Surprisingly it work fine. The Oscons take about an hour to burn in and start sounding GREAT.
I am enjoying listening right now, driving my Danny Richie design DIY X-LS Encores.
Tempoary wiring to make sure it still functions
(http://i.imgur.com/mfiiGeLl.jpg)
Everything removed from top of board
(http://i.imgur.com/86sF9FAl.jpg)
Oscons, and wiring on board bottom
(http://i.imgur.com/cH9F16Sl.jpg)
-
Rhing:
I am ready to revisit the big blue cap if you have a suggestion? I agree the Oscons are hot ticket so far for the DC decoupling caps. I have tried them on 3 different boards so far with positive results :thumb:
Just today I stripped everything I could from a 2x8 3110 board I had modded many times resulting in burning out some through holes.
I want to mount this board in a tiny box. I installed the Oscon caps on the underside of the board, and ran the leads through the burned out through holes onto the pads on top. The power input through holes were also burned out so I had to find an alternative.
The rats nest wiring shown in the photos is just me making sure it's worth proceeding with my mini box idea. Surprisingly it work fine. The Oscons take about an hour to burn in and start sounding GREAT.
I am enjoying listening right now, driving my Danny Richie design DIY X-LS Encores.
You'll need to remind me of the cap dimensions including lead spacing and capacitance. Mouser carries a nice range of large capacitors like Nichicon KG Gold Tune and Kemet PHE200 low ESR capacitors.
I'm still playing around with the Sure TPA3116 amp where I installed the six 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps. This amp sounds really nice. I still prefer the YJ with the newly added CineMag transformers, but I wonder how those transformers would sound with the Sure TPA3116 and my output filter-less Sure TPA3110 amps. There is so much more tinkering to do.
-
I just threw on some BG N 4.7uf caps for my inputs. Huge upgrade. But I'm still on the Red board :rotflmao: . I'm probably going to be amazed when I upgrade to a better board with rhing's mods.
Just a little advice.... When you go to replace SMD caps don't bother trying to safetly remove them. Just use the little green handled dikes to snip them in two, wet the solder with some lead solder, and swipe off the remains. It's way easier than playing with crappy solder. You can dual wield soldering irons if you wish...
This might be a way to make any of the Sure boards better. But without BG N's... Well you can do the trick with two Nichicon ES caps per input cap, and use singles on the ground caps. It'd be tight, real tight.
Funny, I have some Encores as well (upgraded), but I can't imagine them playing loud enough with the 3110.
I wish they still made BG's.... :icon_twisted:
-
Amen to that. Black Gate N's were the most special electrolytic caps made. I still have a couple pair left in my stash and I was tempted to try them in one of these TPA3116 amps, but decided the best cap is no cap at all and went with the CineMag transformers. They are not inexpensive, but the sound quality is on par with some of the high end amps I auditioned last week at the California Audio Show. This includes Sim Audio Moon amps, Raven Audio tube amps, the Audio Note UK Oto SE parallel single ended tube amp, and a pair of Merrill mono block amps.
I'll give some of these manufacturers the benefit of a doubt that setting up systems in hotel rooms is not an easy task, but if you expect to get paid thousands of dollars for this gear, you can afford room treatments and room correction processors if your equipment can't sound good in a regular size room. Surprisingly, some of the best audio came from the simpler systems. Fritz Speakers out of L.A. had these beautiful-sounding Carerra 2-way monitors driven by Electra-Fidelity 300B mono blocks designed by Jack Eliano. The other impressive room was the ATC room featuring their home hi fi passive speakers and amps. ATC is a high end active studio monitor manufacturer out of the UK.
The most disappointing sound was from the Music Lovers Audio room featuring the Wilson Audio Sasha II's driven by an Audio Research Reference 75 amp. The sound was grainy, and lacked any sound stage depth and frequency extension. Something was off, because I know the ARC house sound, and it wasn't present in that suite. My buddy and I couldn't believe the guy told the audience that the speakers cost $35,000 a pair and the ARC amp costs "only" $9,000. Nothing cheap and cheerful there.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104295)
-
I continue to be impressed by the DIY mods you guys come up with.
Do any of you build speaker that you use with the TPA's?
-
Did some public demo's long time ago. You end up running a 140watt poweramp flat out into Rogers LS3/5a (rated 25watt music), as an example, that is a little dangerous, Kef's threatening to leave the Rogers all the time :) Compressing, or using more compressed recordings is probably best. Hiend public soundshow...compressing...dilemma.
-
Funny, I have some Encores as well (upgraded), but I can't imagine them playing loud enough with the 3110.
The little 2X8 W Sure drives the Encores to any listening level I desire :thumb: Does your modded TDA7297 drive your Encores? Now that I am much better at slinging solder, I need to to do the upgrades to my Encores....
-
I read Poultrygeist hard wired (I think) the Astron PS to the amp. Are there other external ways to connect the Astron and the TPA?
-
I read Poultrygeist hard wired (I think) the Astron PS to the amp. Are there other external ways to connect the Astron and the TPA?
I wired the TPA 3116 to the inside of the same red and black binding posts you see on the outside.
If you connect wire leads to the outside binding posts, they work similar to amp binding posts and even have a hole for bare wires.
Red is positive and black is ground. Be careful they don't contact each other. Crimp on "O" connectors are what I used on the inside and they would be my choice on the outside.
-
I've had great luck using the 3116 and 3110 with my diy open baffles
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104318)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104317)
-
Fred,
Excellent. I bet your Betsy's really sing with the TPA.
-
I continue to be impressed by the DIY mods you guys come up with.
Do any of you build speaker that you use with the TPA's?
I have not built any speakers in a while. The last ones I built were the JE Labs open baffles. I used a pair of some really nice vintage 12" SEAS 30 TV-Coax with Alnico magnets in the JE Labs OB's using 3/4" Baltic Birch ply.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104321)
These speakers sounded fantastic, but my man cave is not large enough to do these justice. I let my friend use the open baffles, and he mounted 8 ohm Electro-Voice 12-TRXB triaxial speakers with a simple 3uF cap as the crossover. He ended up selling them to another friend who took them up to Oregon.
Afterward, I went the route of Klipsch Forte II's, which I have modded with Bob Crites' crossover upgrade kits, internal wiring upgrade kits, and his Titanium tweeter diaphragms. My buddy who had the E-V drivers ended up with a pair of Altec Model 19's, where he rebuilt the stock crossovers with Sonicap Gen I film caps and Alpha Copper foil inductors. Both of us still marvel about those JE Labs OB's and how they could be driven beautifully with almost any amp. I would speculate that they would work very nicely with the TPA3116 amps.
I'm thinking of building another pair of OB's following the Gravity Well of a Dark Star design using the Seas coaxials, which I've held onto.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour5/roadtour5.html (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtour5/roadtour5.html)
I also designed a pair of adjustable open baffles for use with Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris and Augie drivers for a friend in Huntsville, Alabama. He loved those OB's a lot, but decided he liked Klipsch Forte II's more.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104322)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104323)
-
I continue to be impressed by the DIY mods you guys come up with.
Do any of you build speaker that you use with the TPA's?
I built some full range GR Research LGK (6ohm, 87.3dB). Fed with TPA3118 @ 18V.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125221.0
BK
(http://i57.tinypic.com/4g41es.jpg)
-
I continue to be impressed by the DIY mods you guys come up with.
Do any of you build speaker that you use with the TPA's?
The only speakers I have built (so far) are my X-LS Encores http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx (http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx) These are really nice sounding (C&C) speakers in the stock form, and are easily driven by all the TPA boards. I plan to do the upgrades soon to bring them to another level.
The OB speakers look like a fun project with minimal cabinet work. Maybe I should try them. :scratch:
Right now - I am listening to "Dead in the water" on Halcyon by Ellie Goulding. Amazing sound from these speakers currently driven by a TPA 3110 amp with Oscon caps mod!
Here's my Encores in gloss black:
(http://i.imgur.com/gL5YvXIl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OEJqdzul.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SfdF2Dal.jpg)
-
Wow! I knew this was a talented group.
-
Do any of you build speaker that you use with the TPA's?
These are the Slim Classic Golden Ratio (CGR) dMar-Ken7.3 speakers. A Planet10 design; they also cut the wood for me as a glue-together flat pack. Drivers are Mark Audio Alpair 7.3eN ("eN" means the "enabled" treatment, aka fancy painted-on polka dots).
Finishing is DuraTex. Very easy to apply, and I really like "industrial"-looking stuff.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104337)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104338)
-
These are the Slim Classic Golden Ratio (CGR) dMar-Ken7.3 speakers. A Planet10 design; they also cut the wood for me as a glue-together flat pack. Drivers are Mark Audio Alpair 7.3eN ("eN" means the "enabled" treatment, aka fancy painted-on polka dots).
Finishing is DuraTex. Very easy to apply, and I really like "industrial"-looking stuff.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104337)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104338)
I bet those MA's sound great. With the 3116 don't you think I have enough power to replace the Fostexs with the Alpairs in my Frugal Horns?
-
I bet those MA's sound great. With the 3116 don't you think I have enough power to replace the Fostexs with the Alpairs in my Frugal Horns?
I'm still "getting to know them" so to speak, but I honestly can't see myself wanting for new speakers any time soon (though they won't fit in this room, I'm looking for an excuse to build a set of Frugel Horn XLs). My only "complaint" is that it seems like the more I turn them up, the more "goodness" comes out of them: volume gets high but it doesn't seem loud, if you know what I mean. In other words, at the same volume, I think a lesser set of speakers would get tiring. That might not sound like a problem, but I usually only have time to listen when my kids are sleeping. And that back wall in the pic is shared with my daughter's room.
As for replacing the Fostex's with MAs: is the Frugel Horn cab the same for both speakers? I have no personal experience with Frugel Horns (nor the similar Pensil series), but IIRC, the cabinet design changes subtly to be optimized for one driver or another. Don't hold me to that, it could be another cab design I'm thinking about!
But as far as power is concerned: I can't imagine you wanting for more with an Alpair/3116 combo, unless you like obscene volume levels. But I would argue these fullrangers are the wrong choice for earbleed volumes anyway. I dropped the gain down to 20dB on one of my 3116 builds, and still barely turn the volume up more than 1/4 the way, even when I get the rare chance to crank it. Note that I'm nearfield, so I don't need a lot of power to begin with. But I can easily fill this 10x13 room with sound with headroom to spare.
As a point of reference, I have a 3116 amp powering my Salk Songtowers in our living room. The Salks are 88dB efficient versus 85 for the Alpair 7.3, so reasonably close. I thought the 3116 wouldn't cut it for living room duty, but again, for my purposes, it's plenty of power. Note that the main floor of our house is completely open: the living room, dining room, and kitchen aren't at all separate rooms, just "implied" rooms based on furniture arrangement. If I wanted to host a rave or something like that, it might be insufficient, but I don't see that happening any time soon. :)
In fact, I've been happy with the 3116 long enough now that I'm going to sell my Class D Audio SDS-470, which IIRC is about 600 Watts. The 3116 sounds just as good to me, and is so much smaller physically.
Edit: note that I have more power than I need on both my desktop and in the living room. However, the desktop amps are powered by a 13.8V PSU, and the living room rig is powered by 24V.
-
The Alpair 7.3 is by far the most popular driver for the Frugal Horn Mk3's.
Since I've never had more than a 3 watt amp I went with the more efficient Fostex FE126en.
It's said that with the Alpair the bass is much stronger in the Frugals.
If you have enough headroom driving the Alpairs with the 3116 then it should work for me if I swap drivers.
-
The only speakers I have built (so far) are my X-LS Encores http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx (http://gr-research.com/x-lsencorekit.aspx) These are really nice sounding (C&C) speakers in the stock form, and are easily driven by all the TPA boards. I plan to do the upgrades soon to bring them to another level.
The OB speakers look like a fun project with minimal cabinet work. Maybe I should try them. :scratch:
Right now - I am listening to "Dead in the water" on Halcyon by Ellie Goulding. Amazing sound from these speakers currently driven by a TPA 3110 amp with Oscon caps mod!
Here's my Encores in gloss black:
Beautiful ! :D
-
lacro,
Love that piano black. I remember lusting after those back when the AV123 forum was going strong.
-
Beautiful ! :D
Thank you sir!
-
lacro,
Love that piano black. I remember lusting after those back when the AV123 forum was going strong.
Thanks Poultry - I enjoyed the challenge! Piano black is not only difficult to finish, but it's difficult to photograph!
-
These are the Slim Classic Golden Ratio (CGR) dMar-Ken7.3 speakers. A Planet10 design; they also cut the wood for me as a glue-together flat pack. Drivers are Mark Audio Alpair 7.3eN ("eN" means the "enabled" treatment, aka fancy painted-on polka dots).
Finishing is DuraTex. Very easy to apply, and I really like "industrial"-looking stuff.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104337)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104338)
Sweet set-up Matt! The Astron PS adds to the "industrial look" :lol: I bet it would look cool in Duratex!
One speaker for each ear, one monitor for each eye.... just need a second mouse - The ultimate "stereo" :icon_lol:
-
The Frugal Horns get lots of playing time with the 3116.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=44540)
-
I followed dboy's lead and installed a pair of CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers on my modified Yuan Jing blue amp. This has to be the ultimate mod for these amps. The soundstage is huge and the tonality is so natural. I wouldn't recommend this for a desktop computer system, but if you use these TI Class D amps in your main system, this should be a serious consideration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104217)
The cost of modifications to the product should not exceed the cost of product itself. It's like putting $10,000 wheels on $2,000 car - it drives better, but how much better? :scratch:
-
There are rules?
-
No rules, $10,000 wheels look great on Honda :green: :thumb:
-
$800 Japanese 3118 is above limit, $500 TBI Millenia might also be above C&C forum limit :D
-
The cost of modifications to the product should not exceed the cost of product itself. It's like putting $10,000 wheels on $2,000 car - it drives better, but how much better? :scratch:
Nonsense. The Astron power supplies cost more than the amp board but nobody raises an eyebrow. With input transformers and a good TPA3116 board you can have an amp equivalent to one you might never afford otherwise. What is wrong with that?
We are not all blessed with limitless wealth. Some people (I do not specifically mean Rhing here, but perhaps myself) might choose life paths that are less financially rewarding than others, but nonetheless valid. Should such people not enjoy the fantastic quality sound that is now available to them if they are prepared to take some chances and DIY?
Try input transformers yourself, then pronounce your judgement!
-
Nonsense. The Astron power supplies cost more than the amp board but nobody raises an eyebrow. With input transformers and a good TPA3116 board you can have an amp equivalent to one you might never afford otherwise. What is wrong with that?
Rodge827 and I had a tough time convincing anyone here to try the Astron's, I have noticed that no one here is trying the Reality Cable power cord, that makes as big an improvement as the Astrons do.
-
$800 Japanese 3118 is above limit, $500 TBI Millenia might also be above C&C forum limit :D
Those are retail products carrying 60% mark-ups. The most expensive part in TBI Millenia is its chassis.
Again, improving a $20 product with $300 worth of parts seems excessive. With that much cash available I would invest in better modules in the fist place, otherwise it is just a very expensive experiment.
I must have gone through the same stages of "upgrading" everything and then trying to unload it when bored only to discover that all the upgrades have little or no add-on value in the secondary market.
-
Those are retail products carrying 60% mark-ups. The most expensive part in TBI Millenia is its chassis.
Again, improving a $20 product with $300 worth of parts seems excessive. With that much cash available I would invest in better modules in the fist place, otherwise it is just a very expensive experiment.
I must have gone through the same stages of "upgrading" everything and then trying to unload it when bored only to discover that all the upgrades have little or no add-on value in the secondary market.
A used Astron is $50 or less and is very re-saleable, power cable is $65 and can be used on other equipment, cap mods are $20 or less. That is a far cry from $300.
-
Those are retail products carrying 60% mark-ups. The most expensive part in TBI Millenia is its chassis.
Again, improving a $20 product with $300 worth of parts seems excessive. With that much cash available I would invest in better modules in the fist place, otherwise it is just a very expensive experiment.
I must have gone through the same stages of "upgrading" everything and then trying to unload it when bored only to discover that all the upgrades have little or no add-on value in the secondary market.
ClefChef, I am not spending your money, I am spending my own hard earned income. If I want to use $120/pair input transformers, where is the harm? The fact is I've only spent a little over $200 TOTAL on this amp including my used Astron power supply, the budget speaker connectors from Lowes, Switchcraft DC power connector, etc. I am actually flattered that you think it's $300 and I'll take it as a compliment. I shared the results of using input transformers to demonstrate there is yet more potential to these amps. That "expensive" experiment was on my dime. In the DIY spirit, I like to share my experimental results, so that we can have fun building some remarkably high value audio electronics on our own. Perhaps, someone might be able to get a great deal on input transformers for less than what I paid for mine. Would that be breaking the rules too?
-
I must have gone through the same stages of "upgrading" everything and then trying to unload it when bored only to discover that all the upgrades have little or no add-on value in the secondary market.
Sounds like your DIY projects didn't end up sounding that great. :roll:
It isn't all about the cost. Some of us just love listening to beautiful music that is beautifully reproduced - and feeling part of that because we made the amp, the speakers, the whatever, that contributes to making it sound that way. It is about the journey and having a passion for it.
-
ClefChef, I am not spending your money, I am spending my own hard earned income. If I want to use $120/pair input transformers, where is the harm? The fact is I've only spent a little over $200 TOTAL on this amp including my used Astron power supply, the budget speaker connectors from Lowes, Switchcraft DC power connector, etc. I am actually flattered that you think it's $300 and I'll take it as a compliment. I shared the results of using input transformers to demonstrate there is yet more potential to these amps. That "expensive" experiment was on my dime. In the DIY spirit, I like to share my experimental results, so that we can have fun building some remarkably high value audio electronics on our own. Perhaps, someone might be able to get a great deal on input transformers for less than what I paid for mine. Would that be breaking the rules too?
No need to get upset, rhing - spend your money as you will. In the DIY spirit I like to share my observations that expensive "upgrades" is usually a waste of money, that's all. I don't mean to rant here :thumb:, but please, go on.
-
Not upset at all. I was enjoying the music, before I was blasted by a hyperbole grenade. :o
-
It sure is a lot cheaper than spending $8-10 grand on a SET amp and get almost the same sound. In fact, I have a $9 grand SET amp here that is not as good as the TBI-Astron. :duh:
-
Branded cables are off limit in this thread, amps above $350 too :D
-
Branded cables are off limit in this thread, amps above $350 too :D
And what is wrong with a $65 branded cable that makes your amp sound better? This is not a DIY forum.
-
Lol yall - To quote one of my favorite lines from the movie kundun about the dalai lama: " do not be distracted."
-
And if wushuliu had never bought a TBI for $500, I seriously doubt if this thread would have ever come to existence.
-
Again, improving a $20 product with $300 worth of parts seems excessive. With that much cash available I would invest in better modules in the fist place, otherwise it is just a very expensive experiment.
I believe the TPA311x-based amps are an anomaly in the price-vs-performance curve. That is, with most things, "you get what you pay for": pay more, you get more. But the tpa311x is an area where a lot of people feel you pay less and get more. With the exception of the input transformers (or maybe exotic/botique input caps), all of the mods combined come in at less than $50 or so. What does it matter that it costs more than the original board? How would that be different than if some enterprising company offered a pre-made board with all the mods already in place? The chips are relatively new; here, and to a greater extent on DIYAudio, we're basically seeing real-time R&D taking place on the best implementation of this chip.
As far as "investing in better modules in the first place": the module is only one small piece of the puzzle. A lousy implementation around a stellar module is still a lousy system. But a quality implementation around a half-way decent module could very well result in a great system. The tpa311x chips seem to be at least "half-way decent", and they are bolstered by the fact that the surrounding implementation is fairly simple (therefore it's easy for the DIY crowd to hack on it and make incremental improvements).
Look at it this way: people pay $600 for a new smart phone, when the "core module" isn't substantially different than that of a $35 Raspberry Pi.
At the end of the day, class D amplification is transistor based, where Moore's Law applies: loosely stated, every 18 months, transistor count doubles and cost halves. Intel has the best semiconductor manufacturing facilities in the world: they are cramming over a billion transistors into something smaller than a postage stamp. If class D audio technology progress has even a passing resemblance to microprocessor progress, then they will only get better and cheaper.
Just one more example: in the world of DACs, you have the highly-regarded ESS Sabre ES9018 chip... IIRC, the chip itself is only like $65. But a half-way decent implementation for that DAC starts at around $300. So here you have another case of a "cheap" module, but relatively much bigger money (and presumably R&D time) being spent on the surrounding implementation.
-
tpa3116 chip is sold for around $1 in Asia, complete ampboards like we buy for $7 to $9. I don't think shippingcost will come down a lot.
-
Best photos I could get without unmounting the board and I try to minimize this to avoid weakening where I have wires soldered to SMD pads to go to transformers (I don't want the pads to lift). I'm sure it could be done much neater than this, but the quality of the sound I'm getting leaves me satisfied. :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103978)
Hi, I have this same ybdz board. Can you please advise what are the part# for the bourns Inductors? How did you take the older ones and placed these in? i see the holes are very tiny. Would you have used now others instead such as the coilcrafts highly rated here and in other boards? I read about their size being a problem for this board..
Thanks for your advice if you can..
-
Branded cables are off limit in this thread, amps above $350 too :D
And what is wrong with a $65 branded cable that makes your amp sound better? This is not a DIY forum.
Mark is correct in the letter of the rules, however the spirit of the rules is a little softer. There is exceptions allowed on branded cables if the price is exceptional and in the range of DIY pricing. A $65 cable is pushing those boundaries pretty hard, but if it's in context of an amp for $27 with a $50 PS, making the the whole amplifier system, umm, carry the one...$142, or something like that example, it could be considered as part of the discussion. A $65 branded cable alone as a point of a discussion thread would be in violation of the guidelines. As with a $500 amp, if the point of the discussion thread, probably not. But in a post, or series of posts, as a point of comparison to the C&C amp that is the discussion topic, allowed. You can compare the $27 amp to $100,000 amp if you want to, just that the C&C amp has to be the thread topic.
The spirit of this thread has always encouraged the use of wiggle room. The key thing is having fun and enjoying ourselves putting together awesome systems on the cheap. Concurent with that end there are guidelines to prevent total anarchy. However the guidelines are not the end result, only a tool to get us there and the fences will always be bent here if it's in the interest of good times. Thus the acid test is if you can convince a reasonable person that your special little component will be part of a complete, musically satisfying system for under $1,000, you're likely in.
-
Hi, I have this same ybdz board. Can you please advise what are the part# for the bourns Inductors? How did you take the older ones and placed these in? i see the holes are very tiny. Would you have used now others instead such as the coilcrafts highly rated here and in other boards? I read about their size being a problem for this board..
Thanks for your advice if you can..
Hi,
I bought these
http://uk.farnell.com/bourns-jw-miller/2200ht-220v-rc/inductor-high-current-22uh-9-3a/dp/2112804
There are a range including larger and smaller ones but I found these 9.3A ones fit well. Smaller might go on a tad easier, but I do not think you would have a problem with these, so long as you go carefully. If you wanted to use the Coilcraft or larger Bourns/other ones then you might need to follow Rhing's advice and move a few output filter capacitors to the bottom of the board. This way you just bend them over a bit. I do not regret the route I went as it all sounds so damn good and I am confident that the inductors are well secured to the board, but that is a personal choice so of course feel free to experiment.
The inductors have SMD pads, not holes. I trimmed a little wire from the ends of the inductor leads and bent over a section just shorter than the SMD pads (which are comfortably large). You can bend it in just such a way that it contacts the pad along the bent length giving excellent attachment. I added a little extra solder to the leads and the pads and then while I soldered them together pressed the inductors gently down to make good contact with the pad through the molten solder and held that while the solder cooled. I added the blu-tack to reduce wobble (which I thought might affect sound quality)and make the inductors like one solid mass, adding stability and reducing stress on any individual pad which might be weak.
Before doing this I thought it would be difficult to pull off, but in the event was surprised how easily everything fell into place. I would say just take your time and plan each trim/bend, etc., carefully. The bends are different for the front and rear inductors because of the orientation of the pads. Good luck! Please let us know how you get on. :D
-
The pcbtraces and smdpads are very thin, a toroid could easily rip them off when touched by accident, I think, glue/tack might prevent that from happening?
-
I am fairly confident in the security of mine now with the blue-tack in place, although it does create a single big weight hanging off the board. I have even held the board upside down and shaken it to make sure.
I have on occasion used epoxy glue for projects - that is non-conductive - and I think earlier in the thread someone suggested hot melt glue. In this instance I like the non-permanence of blue-tack and suspect it has good vibration damping, although obviously it is less secure.
-
A good electronic grade Silicone RTV sealant like this would work in supporting board-mounted components. Silicone RTV sealant also has some vibration damping characteristics.
http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Electronic-Grade-Silicone-Squeeze/dp/B0063U2RT8/ref=pd_bxgy_misc_text_y (http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Electronic-Grade-Silicone-Squeeze/dp/B0063U2RT8/ref=pd_bxgy_misc_text_y)
-
That stuff looks handy to have around. Although with shipping it costs nearly as much as the YBDZ board itself. :wink:
-
That stuff looks handy to have around. Although with shipping it costs nearly as much as the YBDZ board itself. :wink:
Most things do..
-
We'd better make do with chewing gum then. :green:
-
Mark is correct in the letter of the rules, however the spirit of the rules is a little softer. There is exceptions allowed on branded cables if the price is exceptional and in the range of DIY pricing. A $65 cable is pushing those boundaries pretty hard, but if it's in context of an amp for $27 with a $50 PS, making the the whole amplifier system, umm, carry the one...$142, or something like that example, it could be considered as part of the discussion. A $65 branded cable alone as a point of a discussion thread would be in violation of the guidelines. As with a $500 amp, if the point of the discussion thread, probably not. But in a post, or series of posts, as a point of comparison to the C&C amp that is the discussion topic, allowed. You can compare the $27 amp to $100,000 amp if you want to, just that the C&C amp has to be the thread topic.
The spirit of this thread has always encouraged the use of wiggle room. The key thing is having fun and enjoying ourselves putting together awesome systems on the cheap. Concurent with that end there are guidelines to prevent total anarchy. However the guidelines are not the end result, only a tool to get us there and the fences will always be bent here if it's in the interest of good times. Thus the acid test is if you can convince a reasonable person that your special little component will be part of a complete, musically satisfying system for under $1,000, you're likely in.
No problem with the $1000 system that I would buy.
4 pairs of Pioneer SL22 speakers done in a line array-$340
TPA amp and mods-$50
used Astron power supply-$50
Reality Cable power cord-$65
used Oppo 980-$80
Itube-$299
Used Astron power supply converted to 9v-$50
Reality Cable power cord-$65
equals $999
I would challenge this system to any other $1K system that is out there today. The forum guidelines for C&C on cables is:
"- no brand cables in this circle except DIY. We can make some exception for true basement bargains tho."
I strongly feel this power cable is a bargain basement bargain. Especially after you hear the improvement in your system. It equals the improvement that the Astron makes, maybe even better.
-
dboy,
Thanks so much for your answer! making a list of parts to order all at same time:
For now i have:
2 oscons 25SEPF330M
4 bourns ind. 2200HT-220V-RC or should be 2100HT-100-V-RC-ND as diy audio site indicated? just making sure..
2 caps for astron ps, PANASONIC-EEU-FM1V102, PANASONIC-EEU-FM1E222L
for the snubber mod, which are the parts for it? it will risky, i hope i do not damage the board. but looks like its necessary!
there's another cap in board, that one does not need replacement? i see in pictures you are not using it as you use transformers in?
Any other parts to upgrade this ybdz board needed? i know maybe some more discoveries will be made soon, but up until now?
Thank you again and to all the rest like Rhing and Xrk971 which have kindly responded to my questions..and the others for their contributions here!
-
On the other hand, my TDA7297 Class A/B chip amp is dead silent. My SMSL SA-S1 Tripath TA2020 T-amp is not dead silent, but significantly less noisy than the TPA3110D2. Still, with the little bit of noise I hear, the sound quality of the TPA3110 amp is more pleasing to my ears than either of the other two amps.
My brief experience is same, cheap TDA7297 rejects unwanted signals out of the box much better than some t-amps...
-
My brief experience is same, cheap TDA7297 rejects unwanted signals out of the box much better than some t-amps...
Keep in mind that the cited quote was made before I added Ferrite beads to the speaker outputs of my Sure TPA3110 without the LC filter. Now all of my TPA31xx amps are quiet. :D
-
No problem with the $1000 system that I would buy.
4 pairs of Pioneer SL22 speakers done in a line array-$340
TPA amp and mods-$50
used Astron power supply-$50
Reality Cable power cord-$65
used Oppo 980-$80
Itube-$299
Used Astron power supply converted to 9v-$50
Reality Cable power cord-$65
equals $999
I would challenge this system to any other $1K system that is out there today. The forum guidelines for C&C on cables is:
"- no brand cables in this circle except DIY. We can make some exception for true basement bargains tho."
I strongly feel this power cable is a bargain basement bargain. Especially after you hear the improvement in your system. It equals the improvement that the Astron makes, maybe even better.
Tom - Can you point me to the Reality power cable that is $65? Their site only shows one, and it's $225!
-
I'll jump in ahead of Tom and say that you contact Reality Cables and he will get back to you about the cable. It's available, just not listed on the website.
-
Keep in mind that the cited quote was made before I added Ferrite beads to the speaker outputs of my Sure TPA3110 without the LC filter. Now all of my TPA31xx amps are quiet. :D
Any chance of pics? Am having noise/hiss from t-amps
-
Tom - Can you point me to the Reality power cable that is $65? Their site only shows one, and it's $225!
Thanks Blackmore. :thumb:
-
Snubber mod done - YES! :D
(http://i.imgur.com/zWTH5BEl.jpg)
-
Snubber mod done - YES! :D
Nice job lacro! You've really come a long in your DIY skills since starting this thread. How do you like the sound?
I'll jump in ahead of Tom and say that you contact Reality Cables and he will get back to you about the cable. It's available, just not listed on the website.
Thanks guys. These look to be very well made and the price is right. I have an Element Cable that costs about the same. Unfortunately, Element Cable is no longer in business. An audio friend brought over four different power cables ranging from the budget-priced Element Cable to the high-end Moray James power cable. The Moray James was a clear winner when used with my EL84 tube amp, but the Element Cable clearly beat out the more expensive PS Audio and Audience AU-24 power cables.
Any chance of pics? Am having noise/hiss from t-amps
gychang,
What helped reduce the noise for my Sure TPA3110 Class D amp was to construct my own shielded hook-up wire.
- I took some Mundorf 0.5mm (24 AWG) Silver-Gold wire and inserted it into some 22 AWG PTFE Teflon tubing to make two insulated pairs of wires for each channel input.
- I twisted the wires and wrapped Teflon plumbing tape around that to keep the twist intact.
- Next, I sleeved that with 1/8" spiral wrap tubing and slid tinned Copper braid shielding over that.
- Lastly, I soldered a small piece of wire to the shield to serve as a shield drain wire to connect to the RCA input ground connections.
- I finished it off with some TechFlex sleeving and some heat shrink at the ends.
After that, I also added some Bourns Ferrite beads to help attenuate the RFI from the amp's output.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=94527)
This is the amp before I replaced the two 1,000uF/25V Elna Silmic II caps closest to the amp IC with two 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps for an even sweeter sound. These OSCON caps work wonders with Tripath TA2020 amps too. A buddy of mine replaced the two DC decoupling caps in his SMSL SA-S1 TA2020 T-amp and really liked the results. Of course, he prefers his modded YJ TPA3116 blue amp.
Since your Tripath amp already has an LC-type output filter, you can try the Ferrite beads, but it may cause other problems with the amp's frequency response like rolled-off high's.
Another problem may be interference from your power supply if it is an SMPS-type supply. If you can find a good deal on a used Astron regulated linear power supply like the SL-11 or RS-12A, this can help a lot.
-
dboy,
Thanks so much for your answer! making a list of parts to order all at same time:
For now i have:
2 oscons 25SEPF330M
4 bourns ind. 2200HT-220V-RC or should be 2100HT-100-V-RC-ND as diy audio site indicated? just making sure..
2 caps for astron ps, PANASONIC-EEU-FM1V102, PANASONIC-EEU-FM1E222L
for the snubber mod, which are the parts for it? it will risky, i hope i do not damage the board. but looks like its necessary!
there's another cap in board, that one does not need replacement? i see in pictures you are not using it as you use transformers in?
Any other parts to upgrade this ybdz board needed? i know maybe some more discoveries will be made soon, but up until now?
Thank you again and to all the rest like Rhing and Xrk971 which have kindly responded to my questions..and the others for their contributions here!
Hi,
You could use 3x330uF Oscons. I have 2x220uF Elna Cerafine at the moment as I use a Bybee Music Rail and advice I got from the company said to keep capacitance below 470uF (although this does conflict with other info they have given and I am not sure how much it matters).
BTW I did recently compare the Cerafine to the Sepf Oscons on a different board and the Oscons are definitely better. Just wanted to clarify this as I said earlier how much I liked Cerafine.
Re. the inductors, the second part number is for 10uH. 22uH is on the YBDZ board so not a like for like swap, but you may want to change the output filter to match your speakers? Others here will advise on this if you do. Otherwise, that part should sound fine if you can mount it. It seems it is oriented differently to the one I used so I cannot comment on how easy or otherwise it would be to mount. Look at the pictures and dimensions of the parts online to compare. I can confirm the ones I used fit, so if that certainty is what you want then I would advise those.
I personally have not done the bootstrap snubber mod and as only an occasional visitor to the diyaudio thread I am not very up on it, although it is at the back of my mind as something to research and try. Perhaps Rhing or Lacro would be kind enough to summarise this mod for both/all of us?
-
Nice job lacro! You've really come a long in your DIY skills since starting this thread. How do you like the sound?
Thanks Rhing! - I have become much better at slinging solder since Wushuliu suggested replacing the PS caps on the original 3110 board which I had no idea how to accomplish at the time :duh: In reality I am just following many of the mods you have done, and find your photos invaluable for copying you :lol:.
In my system the Bootstrap snubber mod has been the single best SQ improvement so far :thumb: The stock YJ blue board had harsh highs which several other mods tamed well. This BS snubber mod that costs a little over one US dollar! Has brought out much fine detail in mostly highs and mids. I am hearing sounds that were simply not there before.
I listened for several hours to familiar songs to be sure it's not just a placebo affect. It's not - the SQ improvement is amazing!! I was listening to "Once Upon Another Time" by Sara Bareilles, my wife came from the other end of the house saying "what did you buy now, that sounds fantastic" :D We sat there memorized by this great song, sounding like I have never heard it before! I highly recommend this mod.
-
Here is a very cheap C&C mod for your TPA amp. Get a set of moongel drum pads for $6.99 and place your amp on top of three of the pads. You actually get four in a package. Sweetwater sound is a good place to get these, Sweetwater also sells them on Ebay. Shipping is free for your $6.99. These will improve your sound, more detail and more open.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTOM-Moongel-Drum-Damper-Pad-Moongel-Drum-Damper-Pad-/171242036275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ded21c33
-
Here is a very cheap C&C mod for your TPA amp. Get a set of moongel drum pads for $6.99 and place your amp on top of three of the pads. You actually get four in a package. Sweetwater sound is a good place to get these, Sweetwater also sells them on Ebay. Shipping is free for your $6.99. These will improve your sound, more detail and more open.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTOM-Moongel-Drum-Damper-Pad-Moongel-Drum-Damper-Pad-/171242036275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ded21c33
How big/small are they ?
-
How big/small are they ?
Very small and thin, just about 1" wide x 1.5" long x 1/8 inch thick. You can cut them in half with scissors and have two sets of them for your TPA amp and another small component.
-
Very small and thin, just about 1" wide x 1.5" long x 1/8 inch thick. You can cut them in half with scissors and have two sets of them for your TPA amp and another small component.
Thanks. I'll have to check that out. Have you tried these:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8)
Or these:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8)
An audiophile and music vendor sells similar rubber/cork pads for $24.00 or more.
Thanks Rhing! - I have become much better at slinging solder since Wushuliu suggested replacing the PS caps on the original 3110 board which I had no idea how to accomplish at the time :duh: In reality I am just following many of the mods you have done, and find your photos invaluable for copying you :lol:.
In my system the Bootstrap snubber mod has been the single best SQ improvement so far :thumb: The stock YJ blue board had harsh highs which several other mods tamed well. This BS snubber mod that costs a little over one US dollar! Has brought out much fine detail in mostly highs and mids. I am hearing sounds that were simply not there before.
I listened for several hours to familiar songs to be sure it's not just a placebo affect. It's not - the SQ improvement is amazing!! I was listening to "Once Upon Another Time" by Sara Bareilles, my wife came from the other end of the house saying "what did you buy now, that sounds fantastic" :D We sat there memorized by this great song, sounding like I have never heard it before! I highly recommend this mod.
An audio friend of mine came over yesterday and brought his SOTA Sapphire turntable over, so we could install new springs onto the turntable's suspended sub-chassis. After we completed the work, we connected his turntable to my system. I had my modified YJ blue amp connected, but he thought I had my Dynakit Stereo 35 tube amp playing, it sounded so good. We played the new Music Matters 33rpm pressing of Grant Green's "Idle Moments" and my friend's original copy of the RCA Living Stereo pressing of Bizet's "Carmen." It was fantastic with a real, organic presentation.
-
Thanks. I'll have to check that out. Have you tried these:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8)
Or these:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2C-Rubber-Cork-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8)
An audiophile and music vendor sells similar rubber/cork pads for $24.00 or more.
Yes, my buddy Rex and I have tried those and a lot of the more expensive isolation pads, and these drum moongel pads are the best. Just because they are real C&C, don't hesitate to try them. The pads are a best buy, like the TPA amps are.
-
Yes, my buddy Rex and I have tried those and a lot of the more expensive isolation pads, and these drum moongel pads are the best. Just because they are real C&C, don't hesitate to try them. The pads are a best buy, like the TPA amps are.
Good stuff. Guitar Center music retail stores sell them too, so I'll stop by a local store and pick them up this weekend. Thanks!
http://www.guitarcenter.com/RTOM-Moongel-Percussion-Dampening-Gels-100233674-i1137356.gc (http://www.guitarcenter.com/RTOM-Moongel-Percussion-Dampening-Gels-100233674-i1137356.gc)
-
Rex even tried a small set of the very expensive stillpoints, moongel pads were better. Remember, Rex and I have been constantly tweaking our TBI TPA amps for over 2.5 years. The finding of the Astron power supply and these moongel pads was very accidental.
-
Rex even tried a small set of the very expensive stillpoints, moongel pads were better. Remember, Rex and I have been constantly tweaking our TBI TPA amps for over 2.5 years. The finding of the Astron power supply and these moongel pads was very accidental.
If you look back at the first TBI tour thread, I said a linear PS was better than my Optima yellow top, even with banks of caps added. I said it more than once, but for some reason nobody seemed to believe me. :scratch: :icon_twisted: Battery PS are hugely overrated.
-
Stuffed a TPA 3110 with volume pot into an Altoids tin. Had to move everything to the bottom of the board. Sounds great!
(http://i.imgur.com/Rl4VknVl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AlrI4Vzl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/H4BUDwXl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HjsMJYLl.jpg)
-
If you look back at the first TBI tour thread, I said a linear PS was better than my Optima yellow top, even with banks of caps added. I said it more than once, but for some reason nobody seemed to believe me. :scratch: :icon_twisted: Battery PS are hugely overrated.
But who would have ever thought a ham radio power supply would ever be this quality? And you can get them for 50 bucks or less on Ebay. The battery still matched a $400 King Rex PSU that my buddy Rex owns, but not the Astron. Battery was still much better than the wall wart that came with the TBI. At the time, I had no linear power supplies to compare the battery too.
Can you name any equal or better than the Astron for 50 bucks?
-
Stuffed a TPA 3110 with volume pot into an Altoids tin. Had to move everything to the bottom of the board. Sounds great!
That is literally pushing the envelope of miniaturization. Cool stuff!
-
But who would have ever thought a ham radio power supply would ever be this quality? And you can get them for 50 bucks or less on Ebay. The battery still matched a $400 King Rex PSU that my buddy Rex owns, but not the Astron. Battery was still much better than the wall wart that came with the TBI. At the time, I had no linear power supplies to compare the battery too.
Can you name any equal or better than the Astron for 50 bucks?
I was just saying "I told you so" :P ...because I mentioned linear supplies can better a battery supply and cost less too a long time ago... when the 1st TBI tour was happening... but nobody paid attention.
The power supply I had for my D amp was a "Power-One" linear supply, not sure how it would compare to Astron but I'd guess they are similar. It was better than my battery PS.
-
Stuffed a TPA 3110 with volume pot into an Altoids tin. Had to move everything to the bottom of the board. Sounds great!
(http://i.imgur.com/Rl4VknVl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AlrI4Vzl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/H4BUDwXl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HjsMJYLl.jpg)
Very risky, one day you may want to push your amp more than required by playing the music extra loud then the 3116 Chipset gives way whereby 24Vdc will appear at the output------>then your speakers will pop....
No heatsink on 3116 is not a good idea.
-
Very risky, one day you may want to push your amp more than required by playing the music extra loud then the 3116 Chipset gives way whereby 24Vdc will appear at the output------>then your speakers will pop....
No heatsink on 3116 is not a good idea.
Perhaps you should read the Texas Instruments data sheet for the TPA3110 Class D amp before firing a barb. Seems to be a few trigger-happy people around this forum lately.
I was just saying "I told you so" :P ...because I mentioned linear supplies can better a battery supply and cost less too a long time ago... when the 1st TBI tour was happening... but nobody paid attention.
The power supply I had for my D amp was a "Power-One" linear supply, not sure how it would compare to Astron but I'd guess they are similar. It was better than my battery PS.
The Power-One regulated linear power supplies are very high quality supplies. Is your unit an open chassis design? Which model? We have a few surplus electronic supply stores here in Silicon Valley that has a glut of them in 12V and 24V output versions. If I hadn't found my Astron RS-12A for $20 on craigslist, I would have opted for one of those units.
-
Perhaps you should read the Texas Instruments data sheet for the TPA3110 Class D amp before firing a barb. Seems to be a few trigger-happy people around this forum lately.
I disagree with you, ask yourself the question why all the 3116 manufacturers(incl. Sure) put a heat sink on their 3116, there must be a good reason, I don't think they would spend money by adding 1 more component for no gain. If don't want to put a heatsink that's your business I just want to highlight the risk, and not commenting for no good reason.
-
If lacro used a TPA3116 amp, your point would be valid, but he used a TPA3110 amp.
-
I sold my Power-One with a USB > S/PDIF converter I was using it with after I got a USB DAC a few years ago. I originally bought it for an amp... the Trends T-amp... that got such great reviews but really wasn't a good amp in my system. I did a few mods to the Trends and experimented with a few power supplies with the Power-One coming out on top. I had an Optima yellow top with a big bank of caps, even with a reasonable size film cap bypass, and the caps help a lot but it still wasn't as good as the Power-One.
-
Hypex quit making linear supplies designed for their Dclass amplifiers, because their SMPS supplies are so much better. But a Hypex can't be used with TPA. So pretty irrelevant it may seem, on the other hand, for Europeans or any country on another voltage then US, all references to the Astrons may be just as irrelevant.
-
I would guess the Astron et al. is better, but if anyone has a spare 9 to 15v transformer and 4 MUR860 diodes sitting around then it is actually quite surprising how good a power supply this makes (assuming you have a decent capacitance on your amp input). Nothing fancy, but sounds sweet to my ears, much better than the cheap laptop style supply I compared to & very worthwhile for a second system, etc.
-
Very risky, one day you may want to push your amp more than required by playing the music extra loud then the 3116 Chipset gives way whereby 24Vdc will appear at the output------>then your speakers will pop....
No heatsink on 3116 is not a good idea.
Thanks for your concern, but this amp is not a TPA3116, It's the TPA3110 2X8 watt 'baby brother' that does NOT REQUIRE a heat sink on the chip which has always stayed stone cold. If you refer back to the beginnings of this thread, it was started about the 3110, and evolved into the 3116. My amp is powered by 12v.
Here's the amp:
https://www.parts-express.com/2x8w-at-4-ohm-tpa3110-class-d-audio-amplifier-board--320-329 (https://www.parts-express.com/2x8w-at-4-ohm-tpa3110-class-d-audio-amplifier-board--320-329)
-
I followed dboy's lead and installed a pair of CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers on my modified Yuan Jing blue amp. This has to be the ultimate mod for these amps. The soundstage is huge and the tonality is so natural. I wouldn't recommend this for a desktop computer system, but if you use these TI Class D amps in your main system, this should be a serious consideration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104217)
@ rhing - Now that you have had your unit for a while. Which by the way is the best mod ive seen. Can you council me that if i buy this board, I want to install the mods that that made an impact on the sound. What mods from your perspective, when you installed them, you could see a difference?
Thanks
Erik
-
Turns out this $49 Chinese 6N3 tube preamp from ebay is absolutely stunning with the 3116.
I thought I liked the 3116 just as an integrated amp but there's no comparison to the sound with this tube preamp. I tried the 3116 with a Bottlehead Foreplay III expecting even more but the magic wasn't there.
If I hadn't already built them as separates I'd put both in the same case.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74257)
@ Poultrygeist Are you using stock tubes on this? Im thinking about putting in some tubes, do you anyone here suggest what tubes I can roll into this?
Thanks
Erik
-
@ rhing - Now that you have had your unit for a while. Which by the way is the best mod ive seen. Can you council me that if i buy this board, I want to install the mods that that made an impact on the sound. What mods from your perspective, when you installed them, you could see a difference?
Thanks
Erik
Erik, if you haven't bought an amp yet, you should probably consider the Sure TPA3116 amp. In stock form, it is a very good, musical-sounding amp. With replacing the 6x stock electrolytic power supply DC decoupling caps with 6x 330uF/25V Panasonic SEPF OSCON caps, it sounds much better and that's probably all you would ever need to do.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104895)
Since the above-photo was taken, I've removed the 4x Panasonic FM power supply off-board caps. This amp doesn't need them.
I've read where others have written that the amp from eBay seller "audiobah" sounds very good as well. I only have experience with the YJ blue/black amp, the Sure TPA3116 amp, the original Sure TPA3110 amp (no output LC filter), and the SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 complete amp. With all of these amps, the single best mod was installing the Panasonic OSCON caps.
If you want a complete plug and play amp, I would recommend the SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 amp. You can order one of these amps with the 24V power supply if you need the extra drive. You can always add the OSCON caps as I did with mine.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=100720)
I'm actually selling this SMSL amp to a friend's friend. She's going to pair it with her MacBook, Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC, and a pair of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers. That should be a fun PC-based system for a music-lover.
-
Ya but.... Blue/black or Sure? (Modded)
-
@ Poultrygeist Are you using stock tubes on this? Im thinking about putting in some tubes, do you anyone here suggest what tubes I can roll into this?
Thanks
Erik
I replaced the stock Chinese tubes with Russian 6n3p-ev tubes. I tried vintage GE and Tung Sols but preferred the cheap Russians.
-
Ya but.... Blue/black or Sure? (Modded)
+1
Moded YJ vs moded Sure??? Any one.
When I compared 6n3 vs 6n3p-ev first sounded better. I was wrong. Let 6n3p-ev warmup. Then listen them.
-
do tube buffers really work?
I have seen many mixed opinions.
-
do tube buffers really work?
I have seen many mixed opinions.
6n3 preamps used in this thread are no buffers, gain of this preamp is roughly same as tpa3116 amps.
-
do tube buffers really work?
I have seen many mixed opinions.
Haven't tried a tube buffer but my 6N3 preamp and TPA's are inseparable.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96783)
-
do tube buffers really work?
I have seen many mixed opinions.
I bought a cheapo unity gain 6n3 buffer kit after discussion here about the gain being too high on the 3 tube preamp. It was this one, although it actually came with Nichicon PJ capacitors:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pre-AMP-Kit-For-DIY-Tube-6N3-Buffer-Audio-Preamplifier-new-/121167438631?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item1c36246327
I found that it improved my blue/black board a bit - made it sound warmer and more listenable. This board has been modded a little, although not to a very high standard. When I tried it with a better board - Audiobah stock except for Cerafine caps - I much preferred it without the buffer. The buffer made it less accurate and less transparent.
I found that when used with a rubbish old CD player the buffer did add a more pleasing analogue warmth to the sound, but with my better digital system this was unnecessary and counterproductive. I also noticed that any improvements were more noticeable with uncluttered acoustic recordings and anything more rocking quickly sounded congested. I tried one of the cheap Russian tubes, but by about 10hrs into this tube I had just lost interest. My impression was that this buffer would only ever be useful to hide the flaws in a system, not to remove those flaws. It wasn't ever going to get me closer to any original musical performance.
Please note that my experience is with a cheap 6n3 buffer and not the preamp that is so popular. I cannot comment on that. :)
-
do tube buffers really work?
I have seen many mixed opinions.
This is pricey compared to these TPA amps, but the IFI Itube really adds a lot of pzazz when you use it as a pre and buffer. The 3D circuit is wonderful. I would even use this Itube if I owned a $100k system.
-
...adds a lot of pzazz...
I may be very wrong and I mean this with great respect, but my (largely uninformed) suspicion is that that particular choice of words gets to the heart of the matter.
-
I thought the 3 tube 6N3 preamp and this TK2050/Meanwell a pretty good combination.
Then I tried the 6N3 preamp with the TPA3116 and the difference between the two amps was night and day.
Doubt I'll ever listen to the TK2050 again.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75616)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/kmadz34l.jpg)
Hey lacro, where did you get that nice-looking, perfectly-fitting volume knob?
-
I spent a good portion of yesterday at my friend's house trying out my modified YJ TPA3116 amp with my friend's Altec Model 19's. We compared it to his 6B4G P-P tube amp custom-built by Min of Tube Audio Lab.
http://www.tubeaudiolab.com/id203.html (http://www.tubeaudiolab.com/id203.html)
If you've never heard these speakers before, they are some of the best professional monitors ever made. They are highly efficient and produce such a balanced sound from top to bottom. The soundstage is huge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105297)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105298)
My friend's system sounds really great, and I could've just listened to vinyl all day playing on his Empire 208 fitted with an RS Labs RS-1A tone arm and Genesis low output moving coil cartridge. He has that feeding into a DIY D3A tube phono stage, which feeds into an Emotive Audio Erato tube line stage.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105299)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105300)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105301)
After a while, we decided to put my TPA3116 amp into the system. What was really impressive was the amp's level of transparency and detail. It was not analytical in any sense, but very musical. We played a variety of music and the amp had no problems driving the Model 19's 15" woofers in reproducing some pretty heavy and fast percussion. The soundstage and pinpoint imaging was remarkable. Every musician had their place in the image. I think these amps match very well with efficient horn-based systems.
Even though the 6B4G P-P amp sounded better to me, the TPA3116 amp held its own in a very high end system. To compare this Class D amp to a tube amp costing 10x more is quite a testimony of this amp's value.
-
Hey lacro, where did you get that nice-looking, perfectly-fitting volume knob?
Hey Matt... I got it from E-bay seller/China. Came pretty quick. It is very nice quality, but cost as much as the chassis it's on.
This seller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-30-25mm-Black-CNC-Solid-Aluminum-Speaker-Amplifier-CD-Player-DAC-Volume-Knob-/221464079507?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item339049ac93
-
I got the magic 6n3 tube buffer today. Shipping was reasonably fast considering its coming from China. The build quality of the pcb and soldering is better than i expected.
It came with no instructions, im trying to hook up the transformer. Anyone know the wiring diagram for the trans?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105379)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105380)
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105389)
Since my transformer seems to be the latest version now is being shipped, its different than the ones previously posted on here. So im posting a pic for others here in the future who need to know how to hook this up correctly.
(http://www.audioc
[img]http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105388)
ircle.com/image.php?id=105387[/img]
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=74471)
If your 6n3 preamp is like mine:
Blue #1 to #5 port ( AC6.3 )
Blue #2 to #4 port ( AC6.3 )
Blue #3 to #3 port ( AC160v )
Black #4 to #2 GND port
Blue #5 to #1 port ( AC160v )
-
Hi PG
I think that you have one of these (2 x 6N3 & 1 x 6Z4 with the red capacitors, clear perspex etc): http://www.ebay.com/itm/251399731990?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If so, would you please post the uF, Volts & other details on the four biggest capacitors
On my preamp, the text on two of the caps is not legible & completely wiped of on the other two
Thank you
-
First post here, came over from the thread on Audio Karma. Some great looking builds here is there a clear winner for best out of the box? Thinking about doing one of these with the tube preamp above.
Is there a way to add headphone support to the preamp?
-
I spent a good portion of yesterday at my friend's house trying out my modified YJ TPA3116 amp with my friend's Altec Model 19's... What was really impressive was the amp's level of transparency and detail. It was not analytical in any sense, but very musical. We played a variety of music and the amp had no problems driving the Model 19's 15" woofers in reproducing some pretty heavy and fast percussion. The soundstage and pinpoint imaging was remarkable. Every musician had their place in the image. I think these amps match very well with efficient horn-based systems.
I was using a pair of Pioneer BS22 speakers, but as good as they are ...for the money... they really aren't that great; and they certainly don't reveal anywhere enough information to properly evaluate a 3116. To get an idea of what these little amps can do, you'll need far better speakers.
I'm not too keen on cheap preamps either. New or used, I have yet to hear a preamp under a $1000 that I would want to own. But these insanely inexpensive little amps, when properly matched with compatible speakers, can only be rightfully understood in the context of a reasonably high end system.
-
Hi PG
I think that you have one of these (2 x 6N3 & 1 x 6Z4 with the red capacitors, clear perspex etc): http://www.ebay.com/itm/251399731990?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
If so, would you please post the uF, Volts & other details on the four biggest capacitors
On my preamp, the text on two of the caps is not legible & completely wiped of on the other two
Thank you
I can make out two red caps which are Wilma .33
-
I can make out two red caps which are Wilma .33
Thanks PG
On mine, on the 2 caps that text is barely visible, it looks like 0.47
I tried the seller but he isn't helpful; could be language problem
Again, thanks for looking
-
I got the magic 6n3 tube buffer today. Shipping was reasonably fast considering its coming from China. The build quality of the pcb and soldering is better than i expected.
Hello erikjan
I bought one 4 weeks ago & yes, soldering looks good for C&C. However, after running for 30 minutes or so the transformer gets quite hot; a bit more than 15W wouldn't hurt. But sounds OK & "warm" with my B/B 3116 amp
On mine, text on 2 of the big capacitors on the end of the pcb next to the tubes is almost gone & on the 2 big ones on the inside [next to the tubes] text is completely gone. The 2 outside ones look like 0.47uF but not sure. I asked PG & he thinks 0.33
Would you mind looking at the 4 biggest capacitors & posting the uF, Volts & other details, assuming the text on yours is OK? The seller wasn't forthcoming with the info, when I asked
Thanks
-
My 6n3 makes little if any heat.
-
My 6n3 makes little if any heat.
Mine looks as tho it could have been in an accident. No text on some caps, slightly bent spacer that separates PCB & top perspex, transformer that looks 2nd hand & also has one primary lead cut very short [no insulation stripped at end, just a straight cut], length about 0.75", & it [transformer] runs quite hot. I'm swapping emails with the seller
I ordered Russki 6N3 replacements, waiting. BTW, did you change the 6Z4 or just the 6N3s? I'm thinking about rolling the 6Z4, but it'll require swapping a couple of pins; will wait until the 6N3 Russkies arrive & give them a try before proceeding onto the 6Z4
-
My 6n3 preamp is by Yuan Jing and doesn't have any of those QC issues.
No need to replace the rectifier tube.
-
My 6n3 preamp is by Yuan Jing and doesn't have any of those QC issues
The QC doesn't seem to have affected the sound, thank The Almighty. Coupled with an off-the shelf, unmodded blue/black 3116 & playing Sabina Sciubba + Antonio Forcione - Meet Me in London, the combination sounds unbelievable for so few $s. I'm time poor hence no mods to the blue/black 3116 yet. I have a Feixiang 2.1 3116 modded, but it's not in the same league as the b/b with no mods
Russki tubes arrived today so will fit a couple tomorrow & see if I can discern any change
I'm glad I read your post about the 3116 with the 6N3/6Z4 :D
-
I'm thinking the new Dayton "Air" B652 with AMT tweeter would be the cat's meow with the 6n3/TPA 3116.
Definitely C&C.
Just dropped a pair into my cart. :thumb:
Love the standard B652 ( revised ) version with this combo even more than the Pioneer B22.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-b652-air-6-1-2-bookshelf-speaker-pair-with-amt-tweeter--300-651
-
The amp is more suited for something like SongTowers than those speakers.
-
The amp is more suited for something like SongTowers than those speakers.
Song Towers don't qualify as C&C.
-
No, but just because the 3116 is C&C doesn't mean its talents are meant for low-hifi.
-
These amps cannot be rightly understood in conjunction with anything C&C.
-
Unless you DIY your speakers, many in the C&C range. Maybe second hand.
-
No, but just because the 3116 is C&C doesn't mean its talents are meant for low-hifi.
I could say the same for the 3116 powering my Lowthers but here we discuss inexpensive gear.
-
I am writing to confirm that linear power supply makes a big difference in my TPA3116 sound. I bought a cheap Astron RS-12A just to try and I am quite surprised by the results. $30 well spent!
-
Would an Astron RS-20m (12 volts & 20 amps) work with the 3116? I might be able to pick one up for $50.
-
How about the RS-35M.
Also would these make a difference with the TPA3110?
-
How about the RS-35M.
Also would these make a difference with the TPA3110?
It would work, but it must be a monster, weighs 27 lbs. My 12A is supposed to weigh 13, but it feels heavier than that.
Same for the 20, although that guy is not as heavy as the 12, but if you get a good deal.
One thing, I wonder if the meter has any effect on sound quality? The current meter specifically. I would guess they measure current by passing the output through a very small value, high wattage resistor, but that is just a guess.
Randy
-
...the 20, although that guy is not as heavy as the 12...
:o From what I've read, the RS-20 weighs 18 lbs.
One thing, I wonder if the meter has any effect on sound quality? The current meter specifically.
That's a good question, but I'm sure it will sound better than the SMPS.
In any case, I believe the SMPS in my 3116 (http://www.yuan-jing.com/Finished-Boards-Units3/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w/) is 24 volts. How much power output can one expect to lose by using a 12 volt regulated power supply?
-
:o From what I've read, the RS-20 weighs 18 lbs.
That's a good question, but I'm sure it will sound better than the SMPS.
In any case, I believe the SMPS in my 3116 (http://www.yuan-jing.com/Finished-Boards-Units3/tpa3116-class-d-2-0-stereo-power-amplifier-50w-50w/) is 24 volts. How much power output can one expect to lose by using a 12 volt regulated power supply?
From the TPA3116 datasheet,
At 1% THD (they have curves at 1 and 10%)
8 ohm load
24V = 33w
13.8=11w
4 ohm load
24v = 60w
13.8=20w
I used 13.8V because that's what the Astron puts out, unless you open it up and adjust it. I think it can go up to 15VDC, but you won't gain much power.
So you'll be about 1/3 of the power you are at now. I doubt you'll miss it, but that is just my opinion.
Randy
-
Thanks, Randy. That's very helpful.
-
Absolutely!
-
I am writing to confirm that linear power supply makes a big difference in my TPA3116 sound. I bought a cheap Astron RS-12A just to try and I am quite surprised by the results. $30 well spent!
Of all the mods you've made is this the best?
-
Hi everyone, just by the looks of the components can anyone guess which one of these supposed to sound better?
This one I found on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-HIFI-2-0-Stereo-Output-Digital-Power-Amplifier-TPA3116-50Wx2-by-WLX-New-/351171255592
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzQ5WDc1MA==/z/FKQAAOSwQItUFqK6/$_12.JPG)
or
SMSL SA-36A Pro
(http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-3b-58/nfj_2009/folder/986792/06/34498506/img_1?1403414927)
I like the inductors and minimum use of SMDs about the first unit, but maybe there is something I don't understand about SMSL SA-36A Pro chip implemention? ,))
Going to use with 24v power supply,
Thanks!
-
Hi everyone, just by the looks of the components can anyone guess which one of these supposed to sound better?
This one I found on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Latest-HIFI-2-0-Stereo-Output-Digital-Power-Amplifier-TPA3116-50Wx2-by-WLX-New-/351171255592
or
SMSL SA-36A Pro
I like the inductors and minimum use of SMDs about the first unit, but maybe there is something I don't understand about SMSL SA-36A Pro chip implemention? ,))
Going to use with 24v power supply,
Thanks!
The film caps at the signal inputs of the WLX amp are only 0.1uF Wima MKP10 caps. I'm not sure if you'll get much bass response. Most TPA31xx amps have at least 1.0uF caps. The SMSL SA-36A Pro has 3.3uF caps.
If the gain of the amp is set to 26dB, the Z (input) = 30kohms. Using the formula for cut-off frequency, 0.1uF for C (input) yields a cut-off frequency of 53Hz.
If the amp's gain is set to 20dB, the Z (input) = 60kohms. 0.1uF for C (input) yields a cut-off frequency of 26.5Hz.
Per the Texas Instruments TPA31xx technical data sheet:
"If a flat bass response is required down to 20 Hz the recommended cut-off frequency is a tenth of that, 2 Hz."
Whether the caps are genuine Wima MKP10 film caps or not, this amp might be bass-challenged. :(
Someone on diyAudio.com mentioned that these Wima caps are bypassing electrolytic caps on the inputs. If that is the case, then what I calculated above will not apply. You may want to contact the WLX seller and confirm whether this is the case or not.
-
I was looking at the TI Eval board and noticed that is has speaker protection built in. My guess is that it is similar to the Audiobah green board.
http://www.ti.com/product/TPA3116D2 (http://www.ti.com/product/TPA3116D2)
(http://www.ti.com/diagrams/med_tpa3116d2evm_tpa3116d2evm_top_view.jpg)
-
I was looking at the TI Eval board and noticed that is has speaker protection built in. My guess is that it is similar to the Audiobah green board.
http://www.ti.com/product/TPA3116D2 (http://www.ti.com/product/TPA3116D2)
(http://www.ti.com/diagrams/med_tpa3116d2evm_tpa3116d2evm_top_view.jpg)
I don't think TI EVM uses mute on start-up. It is switch controlled.
Layout of TI EVM gives an indication how critical things mentioned in datasheet could be achieved. Decoupling 2+2 ceramics are under heatsink TI EVM, next to bootstraps for AC1308 (audiobah). TI EVM also has a snubber filter next to bootstraps, AC1308 omits this snubber (but has PBTL-vias under bootstraps that could be used to connect 330pF/10ohm in a neat fashion). DC power traces TI EVM cross outputsignal, AC1308 DC power traces cross inputsignal. Etc
BTW heatsinksize AC1308 is same as TI EVM looking from top.
-
The eval board is also like $160 or something ridiculous.
-
The eval board is also like $160 or something ridiculous.
Yeah, it isn't cheap at $149. The regular boards are out there though and pricing seems quite nice. On Monday I am going to try and order one of the actual TI boards (from what I understand, they are just like the eval boards, we'll see).
-
Yeah, it isn't cheap at $149. The regular boards are out there though and pricing seems quite nice. On Monday I am going to try and order one of the actual TI boards (from what I understand, they are just like the eval boards, we'll see).
Well then you can rapidly switch between 400khz-1200khz and between other options. Specs could be close to datasheet, but not better. Nice reference point if you like modding other boards :)
-
I would love to know how the higher switching sounds.
-
Maybe I'll do some tracing modifications for science... :thumb:
Has anyone tried this? My board I think has all three AM legs connected to ground. I haven't seen in the documentation whether to change it, you simply disconnect them or provide PVCC source.
Nevermind, the EVM board schematic makes it clear, you connect it to PVCC. I think I can just jumper 12 & 13 :thumb:
-
Never mind, 13-15 are one pad on my board. Damn.
-
What does the switching speed do for the sound?
-
No idea, yet.
-
What does the switching speed do for the sound?
I mentioned "but not better" befor. TI's Paul Chen designer of TI EVM puts it like this:
EVM is a good starting point. Select inductors that does not saturate at peak current. Any loss of inductance of more than 3% up to the peak load current can increase THD. Use at least X7R or better capacitors (MKP/MKT).
You may also use AM0, AM1, and AM2 to select higher PWM freq which can provide slightly better THD+N at the expense of higher idle current.
reg,
Paul Chen
-
A couple of weeks ago I finished building a pair of Little Giant Killer (LGK’s) designed by Danny at GR Research. So I connected my Audiobah TPA3116 amp up to drive them.
The amp is powered by an Astron RS-12A power supply. The supply is adjusted to 12VDC. I did this when I was using the Astron to power my PC, and I didn’t readjust it back to 13.8VDC.
I have already made several mods to the amp. I swapped out the two input power caps. I have a pair Nichicon 1000uf caps. They are mounted on the bottom. I also have a pair of Oscon 330uf caps mounted on top.
I implemented the bootstrap snubber mod using surface mount parts. I used a 470pF cap and a 11 ohm resistor because that’s what I had available. 470 is easier to find than 330 pf, but I have no idea if it makes a difference or not. Using surface mount parts wasn’t too hard, but I have built stuff with SM before so it isn’t new to me. You need the right tools, a good pair of tweezers, find solder and a good iron with a small tip.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106293)
As shown in the picture, I soldered one end of the 470 pf caps to existing caps on the board. The existing caps go grom the bootstrap pin to output. I soldered the 470 pf caps to the output end of the caps. I put kapton tape under my additional parts to make sure there would be no shorts, even though there is already solder mask. I soldered my 11hom resistors to the other end of the 470 pf caps, and then scrapped off some solder mask at the board ground so I could solder the other end of the 11 ohm resistor to ground. For a couple of the resistors, I used some copper tape to get from the resistor to the ground point.
At the input end, I removed the 4 input caps, and feed the amp a differential input signal. My dac has Lundahl LL1684 output transformers. I used fine wire to connect the input signals to the right (3116) side of the input cap pads. This is not as hard as it sounds, as long as you have the tools I described above.
Here is a picture of the input. I run a fine wire from the cap pads to the RCA jacks.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106294)
Finally I replaced the output inductors.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106295)
I used copper tape to connect the inductors, and needed to scrap off some solder mask so I could connect.
The rest of my system is fully balanced from my ES9018 DAC, which is connected directly to the amp. The DAC handles volume control, so no preamp is used. I hear almost no noise from my amp when I put my ear right against the driver, and system is very transparent. Input to DAC is USB through a highly modded PC. PC is powered by linear PS’s among other tweaks.
So I’m pretty sure my amp sounds better than the most TPA3116 amps because I already had Lundahl transformers in my system, so I was able to remove the amp input caps and run the input signal differentially directly into the amp.
But given this, it sounds really good. I’m impressed by the sound I’m getting out of the combination of my amp and my LGK speakers.
Longer term, I’m going to build the Dug 3116 boards which are designed for dual mono operation.
-
If your not considering PBTL with ac1308...the bootstraps have each a solderpad for snubber
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2m483tv.jpg)
-
Randytsuch, great to see a fellow traveller with the ES9018 - transformer - tpa3116 balanced inputs approach. Makes a fine dedicated digital setup indeed. I liked the YBDZ board more than Audiobah. I suspect your dual mono Dug boards will be even better! Happy listening. :D
-
Hey Mark
I guess I should have looked at the other side :D
The board was already mounted, and I was too lazy to unmount it to look at the backside. And it really wasn't too hard to do it the way I did it.
Dboy
What ES9018 do you use?
I have the first generation of this one
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/ (http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/)
I like it because it has all the voltage regs built in, and it came with a display and a microcontroller that handles the volume.
I have lundahl 1684 trannys on the dac output.
Randy
-
Nice work Randy. You must be a neurosurgeon to be able to modify the Audiobah board like that. Indeed, having high quality transformers like the Lundahl's on your DAC output and feeding the signal directly to the differential inputs of the TPA3116 amp IC is an ideal setup.
I just received my DUG TPA3116 PBTL amp PCB's with the TPA3116 IC's mounted on them. I purchased these PBTL boards through the diyAudio.com Group Buy thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html)
I can work with the other SMD's, but I didn't want to risk wasting my money or boards trying to mount the TPA3116 IC's myself. DUG will test them too for an additional charge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106340)
In the meantime, I've been assisting Roger Modjeski of Music Reference and RAM Tubeworks in setting up his audio engineering school and laboratory near Berkeley, CA. The other day I was at his lab, he lent me a prototype of a single 12AT7 dual triode line stage preamp. I've been listening to this preamp in my system, and I am really amazed with how well this works with my modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp. It is giving my Audio Research LS7 some serious competition. I am trying to talk Roger into making this preamp a DIY project to offer through the school.
Roger is willing to test my modified TPA3116 amp in his lab and get measurements. Should be interesting what we measure.
-
Dboy
What ES9018 do you use?
I have the first generation of this one
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/ (http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/)
I like it because it has all the voltage regs built in, and it came with a display and a microcontroller that handles the volume.
I have lundahl 1684 trannys on the dac output.
Randy
It is a Twisted Pair Buffalo II kitted out with a full set of Paul Hynes regs and the 'Volumite' volume control. Goes into Sowter 3575 (OCC wire version) then to YBDZ board with upgraded caps and inductors (Bourns) and gain set for 60k input impedance. At the moment I'm still on RBCD via a Stello transport (not the really pricey ones) but I recently bought a Windows 8 tablet partly thinking to try that for some ones and zeros. Haven't got around to it yet, still pondering on the USB converter. The huge improvements I've heard with my current setup have directed my imagination more toward making new speakers (hope that makes sense), but funds are a bit tight at the moment so not rushing into it, just enjoying the current system hugely. :green:
P.S. Had a look at the link for your dac, looks fantastic. Hadn't come across that one before.
-
It is a Twisted Pair Buffalo II kitted out with a full set of Paul Hynes regs and the 'Volumite' volume control. Goes into Sowter 3575 (OCC wire version) then to YBDZ board with upgraded caps and inductors (Bourns) and gain set for 60k input impedance. At the moment I'm still on RBCD via a Stello transport (not the really pricey ones) but I recently bought a Windows 8 tablet partly thinking to try that for some ones and zeros. Haven't got around to it yet, still pondering on the USB converter. The huge improvements I've heard with my current setup have directed my imagination more toward making new speakers (hope that makes sense), but funds are a bit tight at the moment so not rushing into it, just enjoying the current system hugely. :green:
P.S. Had a look at the link for your dac, looks fantastic. Hadn't come across that one before.
A Buff II with PH regs and Sowter TX outputs must be a nice sounding DAC.
Off topic, but the Amanero USB to I2S converter is probably the best low cost way to get USB audio into you Buff II.
http://amanero.com/ (http://amanero.com/)
He had a bunch of group buys at diyaudio for around $60 a card, but I don't think he is doing that anymore.
For more money, the Sonore looks nice.
And I was able to built an audio PC pretty cheaply, I have a thread in the diy section here about my build, but I already had some of the parts which saved some money.
It is a pain to rip all your CD's to a PC, but once you do it, and get used to it, you can't go back to handling disks.
Randy
-
Randy, thanks very much for the recommendation of the Amanero. That looks a very strong contender.
I am currently a little out of my depth with the full complexities of computer audio, but will get there. I have to admit to being one of those guys who actually like handling discs and having a physical music collection. But then it is hard to argue with better sound. I'll look up your PC build thread for info. I built my current PC to be very quiet - only one fan including in PSU - but that was more because I valued the silence for writing. I don't really want a PC in the living room though, and am hoping the tablet will do an acceptable job (no fans and running on battery sounded a good start to me, but I could be wrong). :)
-
My PC has a linear PS, no fans. It actually has 3 linear power supplies, and I'm still going to tweak it some more.
I have one fan, for the processor heatsink, and it's really quiet. You basically have to be right next to the PC to hear it.
I'm convinced that a dedicated audio PC is the way to go, but that's my opinion.
Randy
-
Indeed, I just spent a while reading your thread and with the attention to detail you have paid I don't doubt that that is a phenomenal solution. :o
-
I followed dboy's lead and installed a pair of CineMag CMLI-15/15B input transformers on my modified Yuan Jing blue amp. This has to be the ultimate mod for these amps. The soundstage is huge and the tonality is so natural. I wouldn't recommend this for a desktop computer system, but if you use these TI Class D amps in your main system, this should be a serious consideration.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104217)
I put two amplifiers together using modified Audiobah boards - one with CMLI-15 inputs, and one without. I burned both for at least 75 hours before listening. Transformers gave the amp what I felt was harsh and somewhat accentuated top end that gave me listening fatigue. Capacitor coupled amp sounded significantly smoother on the top end. After listening for a while I took out the Cinemags and replaced them with Wima 3.3uf caps (just as in the other amp) - now it sounds excellent.
both amps R-input = 30k
Good experiment, but in my case it did not lead to superior results.
-
I suppose I should have loaded the transformer output with 30k resistor to get 15k resistance (given 30k amp input resistance), but I don't think results would have been too much different :scratch:
-
I put two amplifiers together using modified Audiobah boards - one with CMLI-15 inputs, and one without. I burned both for at least 75 hours before listening. Transformers gave the amp what I felt was harsh and somewhat accentuated top end that gave me listening fatigue. Capacitor coupled amp sounded significantly smoother on the top end. After listening for a while I took out the Cinemags and replaced them with Wima 3.3uf caps (just as in the other amp) - now it sounds excellent.
both amps R-input = 30k
Good experiment, but in my case it did not lead to superior results.
I am curious if you noticed a difference in bass output too.
-
I suppose I should have loaded the transformer output with 30k resistor to get 15k resistance (given 30k amp input resistance), but I don't think results would have been too much different :scratch:
Did you use a preamp or a passive potmeter? If a pot, was the pot befor or after transformer?
-
I used LDR preamp (~20k constant z), fed by a DAC (600R). Transformers were after the LDR, directly into TPA chip.
-
I used LDR preamp (~20k), fed by a DAC (600R). Transformers were after the LDR, directly into TPA chip.
So it could have been a synergy thing with the LDR. The output impedance of a LDR may not be a good match for driving a transformer.
Randy
-
So it could have been a synergy thing with the LDR. The output impedance of a LDR may not be a good match for driving a transformer.
Randy
Could be or it could just be the transformer sonic "signature". Transformer primary impedance is high enough not to affect the sound, higher impedance output loading should not negatively affect the sound either. Oh well...
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107070)
-
Could be or it could just be the transformer sonic "signature". Transformer primary impedance is high enough not to affect the sound, higher impedance output loading should not negatively affect the sound either. Oh well...
LDR's are known to be finicky about the system they are used in because of their impedance.
And Cinemag transformers have a good rep, so I would be surprised if this is an issue of the transformer sonic signature.
So I'm inclined to believe the cinemags and LDR's are not a good match, or for that matter any tx with the LDR.
Randy
-
20k is simply high. These amps would do well with a buffer. As is 20db gain with a 10k volume is about as good as you'll get for analog/attenuator control.
-
I had harsh high and limited bass with cheap transformer. I believe I had pot befor transformer too, can't remember with 100% certainty. For LDR removing R3 audiobah will improve sound, and a lower outputimpedance from source probably too. With transformer you will need to know outputimpedance LDR.
-
20k is simply high. These amps would do well with a buffer. As is 20db gain with a 10k volume is about as good as you'll get for analog/attenuator control.
It is actually your source that needs the buffer. Sometime ago cdplayers were tested/measured for being able to drive a passive pot. Only 1 in this test had perfect result, which was not the most expensive in test, but more expensive than most:) Picture shows excessive attention to powersupply, but that probably was not reason it didn't have trouble.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107108)
-
I would also be curious how a tube audio legend like Roger likes the measurements of the 3116 with his ears. :)
Nice work Randy. You must be a neurosurgeon to be able to modify the Audiobah board like that. Indeed, having high quality transformers like the Lundahl's on your DAC output and feeding the signal directly to the differential inputs of the TPA3116 amp IC is an ideal setup.
I just received my DUG TPA3116 PBTL amp PCB's with the TPA3116 IC's mounted on them. I purchased these PBTL boards through the diyAudio.com Group Buy thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/257996-gb-tpa3116-8-pbtl-bare-pcb.html)
I can work with the other SMD's, but I didn't want to risk wasting my money or boards trying to mount the TPA3116 IC's myself. DUG will test them too for an additional charge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106340)
In the meantime, I've been assisting Roger Modjeski of Music Reference and RAM Tubeworks in setting up his audio engineering school and laboratory near Berkeley, CA. The other day I was at his lab, he lent me a prototype of a single 12AT7 dual triode line stage preamp. I've been listening to this preamp in my system, and I am really amazed with how well this works with my modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp. It is giving my Audio Research LS7 some serious competition. I am trying to talk Roger into making this preamp a DIY project to offer through the school.
Roger is willing to test my modified TPA3116 amp in his lab and get measurements. Should be interesting what we measure.
-
I would also be curious how a tube audio legend like Roger likes the measurements of the 3116 with his ears. :)
I'll be at his lab tomorrow with the modified YJ TPA3116 amp. It marries very well with his single tube 12AT7 line stage. His Berkeley Hi Fi School has successfully launched in the Bay Area.
http://berkeleyhifischool.com (http://berkeleyhifischool.com)
-
Rhing, if you haven't built the DUG boards, consider doing 2x per decoupling cap (for same value) as opposed to the single they're setup for; cost is almost nothing for lower impedance towards noise. They can literalyy sit on each other. It'd be better with opposing poles but that requires a new board. One could get carried away with the concept, but the benefits at two are substantial.
Mark, source vs. Volume vs. Amp is more complicated than that.
-
I went to Roger Modjeski's lab yesterday to help get it organized to hold lab classes for the Berkeley Hi Fi School. I brought my modified Yuan Jing blue amp and my slightly modified Sure Electronics TPA3116 amp for measurements using his Sound Technologies 1700A Series Distortion Analyzer and Hitachi oscilloscope. We used my upgraded Astron RS-12A regulated linear power supply with both amplifiers.
Modified Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amp
Power..............1kHz..........2kHz.. ........6kHz..........10kHz..........20 kHz
1 watt............ .03%......... .06%........ .35%......... .60%.......... .80%
10 watts......... .03%......... .20%........ .25%......... .30%.......... .25%
Modified Sure Electronics TPA3116 amp
Power..............1kHz..........2kHz.. ........6kHz..........10kHz..........20 kHz
1 watt............ .14%......... .14%........ .35%......... .55%.......... .65% (first 2 are in the noise)
10 watts...... .10%......... .13%........ .33%......... .30%.......... .40%
As we went through the measurements, Roger explained the interesting waveforms we viewed on his scope. These amps both exhibited crossover distortion. What's interesting to me is that the THD significantly increases above 6kHz at 1 watt. However, we measured lower distortion at 10 watts. Looking at the TI datasheet, this may explain why they do not show distortion measurements above 6kHz. My hearing rolls off around 16kHz.
Another interesting observation is the amount of noise at 1kHz and 2kHz for the Sure amp. Roger pointed out that the distortion measurements were buried in the noise floor. He also noticed a 0.6dB rise at 20kHz, 1.5dB at 30kHz and 2dB rise at 40kHz. He attributed this to the output filter. We did not see this with the modified YJ blue amp. This may partly explain why I prefer my modified YJ amp (even before adding the CineMags) over the Sure amp.
Time didn't permit us to measure frequency response, but I'll probably bring both amps to the lab for more measurements and listening tests.
-
You do not mention load. But you do mention frequency respons. For these amps these are connected.
These pictures might be interesting too:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/262964-class-d-output-spikes.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/262964-class-d-output-spikes.html)
-
OK silence, that brings noisefloor in region ear is most sensative to attention. 0.14% is audible hiss when music is playing, some might remember tape recorder hiss, about that level I think my Revox had? So is it there with your Sure or not? It might not be there, could also be a false read from distortionmeter. How? 6khz is considered worst case in measuring audioband, 2nd and 3rd harmonics within audioband. Modern devices can noise shape noise to places outside audioband, some devices just have noise above 20khz, inaudible but older analog distortion meters can not handle large amount of noise in places never expected when machine was constructed. That is why very steep inputfilters are added befor distortionmeter, so measurements in audioband are reliable, but also makes 6(.666)khz worst case scenario, in theory. See AES17 filtering. Now Sure amp was peaking visably on frequencies near audioband, more than your YJblue, this could cause false levels indicated by distortionmeter if not filtered steeply enough. Same problem might be there for for example 60khz noise with YJblue filter. So I don't know if measurements are reliable.
(2.83V 0.14%=4mV versus TI's 0.065mV EVM)
-
Load was 8 ohms. The Sure amp does have more audible hiss compared to the modified YJ amp.
Considering that Roger has measured many solid state and tube amplifiers including his own critically acclaimed designs, I trust his measurement results and his explanations. Certainly, the University of California in Berkeley feels the same way, and has him lecturing to their electrical engineering students and working with them in their labs.
-
If you are used to measuring tube/ss amps, you could see funny things trying to measure digital age devices. Many do. Most of times just measuring artifacts that tell little about the device being measured.
-
Having a green Audiobah board with an Astron. Currently running it stock and it sounds great to me with the exception that it's not much bass at all. In fact, when connecting it to a sub via high-level there it's apparent that the low end is completely missing on some songs. I have connected it directly to a CD player, an ipad, and galaxy S4 via DAC. So what's the trick to get some more bass?
The only way I can get some bass on songs is to connect to the pre-out on an old Pioneer Elite receiver and use the loudness function but that makes the sound muddy and comletely removes the magic.
-
Having a green Audiobah board with an Astron. Currently running it stock and it sounds great to me with the exception that it's not much bass at all. In fact, when connecting it to a sub via high-level there it's apparent that the low end is completely missing on some songs. I have connected it directly to a CD player, an ipad, and galaxy S4 via DAC. So what's the trick to get some more bass?
The only way I can get some bass on songs is to connect to the pre-out on an old Pioneer Elite receiver and use the loudness function but that makes the sound muddy and comletely removes the magic.
I'd guess the weak link is somewhere other than the amp. I'm using the same combination with no lack of bass.
-
Yes, wondering if the thin low end is due to connecting the source straight into the amp with no pre - amp. Hear the same with a Sure Tpa3110 2 x 8W using the same combo, but with a TA2020 Lepai I get punchy bass.
Poultrygeist - how is the sound in your system if you bypass your tube preamp and instead using a software control or only run the high levels into your Young plate amps? When I disconnect all other speakers and only run it out to the sub as a test, the driver is barely moving despite I feeding it a lot of gain. My work around has been to Y split the input signal and use RCA instead, but that doesn't work on my main speakers...
Thanks again for the tip of getting an Astron. I'm still amazed of how much better it sounds with it.
-
Except for the integrated red board I've never tried any of the 3116's without a preamp.
At the moment I'm running a CDP source into the Yung RCA line in's and the Yung RCA line out's into the 3 tube preamp and then the preamp outs into the 3116.
It all works fine. The original signal is a pass through on the Yung line outs.
-
Filterless Sure3110 has ~170nF input capacitors, audiobah's measure ~900nF. You stated that pre-out didn't have bass either unless you used loudness. So if you want to solder smd, increase value all 4 inputcapacitors audiobah. If you don't want to and have enough volumerange with sources you use, cd will be ok I guess, but ipad/iphone???, you could reduce gain by removing R3, that effectively is the same as doubling inputcapacitors value.
But audiobah standard should give more bass than little Sure, if not better check speakerpolarity, audiobah shouldn't be same as little Sure ampboard, 2 negatives are not in the middle!
-
Thanks Markvdv and Poultrygeist for the suggestions. To clarify, the bass is somewhat there with the pre-outs from the receiver (better than from Ipad/smart phone) but it sounds really flat on songs like From Gagarin's Point of View by Esbjorn Svensson Trio untill I boost it up with loudness.
Looks like post #720 (page 37) describes the same issue when using a DAC between a digital source with software controls and the TPA3116. I'm using the HifimeDIY android DAC via the USB output which gives some additional gain. Taking it straight into the sub plate amp via RCA gives very nice tight and full bass from sub but of course still miss it in the mains. Headphone outs = slightly more bass but still flat + less clarity at reduced volume.
Don't have the skills to solder smd, but removing R3 will increase bass?
Checked polarity, but it was OK. Perhaps the best solution is to get a pre-amp. Is the 6N3 + 6Z4 tube valve preamp the recommended way to go? I noticed the carry Yuan Jing pre-amps at PE as well but only with the 6N3 option.
-
Forgot to mention that when I moved cables around I managed to play the amp with no speaker load as well as only one speaker connected. To my surprise, I could hear soft music directly from the amp board itself!??? It sounded like when you stand next to someone playing music out of a pair of cheap headphones. Barely audible but I could distinguish the lyrics.
So where is this coming from? Is this anything I need to worry about? Did not hear this from the Sure board.
-
Forgot to mention that when I moved cables around I managed to play the amp with no speaker load as well as only one speaker connected. To my surprise, I could hear soft music directly from the amp board itself!??? It sounded like when you stand next to someone playing music out of a pair of cheap headphones. Barely audible but I could distinguish the lyrics.
So where is this coming from? Is this anything I need to worry about? Did not hear this from the Sure board.
Ceramic classII capacitors have some distortion, one of them is piezoelectric, they vibrate with voltage applied, in other words they act as a loudspeaker. Better check all 4 outputs, capacitance to ground, after playing ampboard without load.
-
"Taking it straight into the sub plate amp via RCA gives very nice tight and full bass from sub but of course still miss it in the mains. Headphone outs = slightly more bass but still flat + less clarity at reduced volume"
If you connect the plate amp's line outs to your main amp's inputs you shouldn't miss anything.
The signal coming out of the plate's line outs is unaltered and the same as the source.
-
Good idea, but my plate-amp doesn't have line-outs.
-
Since you mentioned the Yung plate amp I thought that's what you were using.
-
I would like to make a passive input selector to use with my YJ 3-tube preamp/ TPA amps, or with my TPA power amps alone.
I know there are commercial units already available, but I want to build my own.
These two boards look like they would work good, and be easy to wire up:
http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/select4.html (http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/select4.html)
http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/inseswandpcb.html (http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/inseswandpcb.html)
I have a few questions:
The first one looks like it ties all the grounds together, and switches just the + The second one keeps the grounds separate? Which type is most desirable for my use. One more question: Should this be wired with shielded cable between the board and RCA's ?
Thanks!
Lacro
-
I have always wired up amps the first way with gnds connected. I tend to try to keep signal path (and return) short so I connect the gnds at the RCA's rather than at the switch and go straight to the board. Also I figure the first way avoids any unnecessary contact noise/resistance. But shielding or twisting might be a good idea as I think someone said the tpa kicks out some rfi. And keeping the gnds seperate might also be desirable . I'm interested in what others think about this.
-
Ooops double post.
-
I have always wired up amps the first way with gnds connected. I tend to try to keep signal path (and return) short so I connect the gnds at the RCA's rather than at the switch and go straight to the board. Also I figure the first way avoids any unnecessary contact noise/resistance. But shielding or twisting might be a good idea as I think someone said the tpa kicks out some rfi. And keeping the gnds seperate might also be desirable . I'm interested in what others think about this.
Thanks dboy, Must be no-one else has an opinion??
-
They're both fine.
A shielded cable would only work if it's coaxial, or both ends of the shield are connected to something. Otherwise you're better off with a twisted pair. As far as noise... at this short run I'd just choose something of quality.
-
Maybe with FMtuner and Television decoder connected too, hum/noise and other ''unexplainable"^ things could more easily occur if gnd isn't switched.
^With multiple room systems you can sometimes get funny things (earth fields?) like automatic audiosystem switch on or off when physically entering the bathroom for example, a little filter on either TV or radio antenna could fix.
-
My 3116 has been bumped by my version of the TDA7297. Even with Muse ES input caps (custom config) vs. Blackgate N's..... The TDA7297 sound like something in another league.
I could tell in 3 seconds.
-
My 3116 has been bumped by my version of the TDA7297. Even with Muse ES input caps (custom config) vs. Blackgate N's..... The TDA7297 sound like something in another league.
I could tell in 3 seconds.
Would you be willing to post more info about your TDA7297 amp and maybe some photos? Is it a cheap board from ebay (or similar) or is it something you have put together yourself?
I know the thread is about TPA3110 & 3116, but since you made the comparison I do not think anyone would object to a little more info.
-
.... I know the thread is about TPA3110 & 3116, but since you made the comparison I do not think anyone would object to a little more info.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=121423.0
-
Thanks Magnet, I searched that thread out after posting but Salis' last post there was in February so I am guessing he has improved on what is there. Especially since that thread seems to have died just when this one was becoming really active (suggesting TPA3116 et al. were more interesting at that time).
Those TDA7297 amps sure do have a low component count to get them up and running.
Edit: Oh OK discussion of TDA7297 moved to 'Build Guide' thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122152.0
-
The one I'm using now is custom PCB, different parts.
-
I've wired up the original red board with the volume control and the blue board that comes without a volume control. I set up a blue board with an Oppo 105 and Mark Audio 7.3s in a T-Line. I used the volume control on the Oppo. In my first pass, I used the input wiring harness that was supplied with the amp. I was a bit disappointed. I then changed out the input wiring harness for some silver wire soldered directly to the pins. The same make of RCA plugs terminated both the harness and the silver wire. The silver wire, to my ear, sounds much better.
I use a 4 9s silver wire that I found on eBay. It has a Teflon dielectric. It makes a good interconnect. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Silver-9999-Stranded-Litz-Wire-29AWG-Teflon-Audio-Cable-Tonearm-Rewire-DIY-/111053284574?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item19db4aa4de
-
Has anyone used the smaller of the 2 Sure amp cases that they sell on that auction place or at Parts Express ?
I'm going to order the Sure TPA 3110 board and want to put mount it in a metal box and since that one by Sure is pre-drilled I'm interested in it .
But.... it seems to be a closed aluminum tube with bolt on front and back and I'm wondering how that is going to work during assembly if you're trying to keep the leads as short as possible ?
I can drill... so if I can find a suitable smallish box that has a remove-able top that is plan B
Just wonder if anyone has wrestled with the Sure box though?
The Sure bay store shows a picture of a PCB board that slides in the grooves of the case, so for a amp board you populate yourself, it probably is the right choice.
-
Has anyone used the smaller of the 2 Sure amp cases that they sell on that auction place or at Parts Express ?
I'm going to order the Sure TPA 3110 board and want to put mount it in a metal box and since that one by Sure is pre-drilled I'm interested in it .
But.... it seems to be a closed aluminum tube with bolt on front and back and I'm wondering how that is going to work during assembly if you're trying to keep the leads as short as possible ?
I can drill... so if I can find a suitable smallish box that has a remove-able top that is plan B
Just wonder if anyone has wrestled with the Sure box though
The Sure bay store shows a picture of a PCB board that slides in the grooves of the case so for a amp board you populate yourself it probably is the right choice.
If your referring to the NEW 3110 2X15W Sure board, -NO- it won't fit the smaller Sure box PE is selling. However, it will fit the 3110 2x8 W board easily. There is some re-working of the box required for input power jack, and on/off switch.
This box on E-bay will fit the NEW Sure 3110 2x15W amp board:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B0905-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-amplifier-case-Preamp-box-PSU-chassis-/221611997159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33991ab7e7 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/B0905-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-amplifier-case-Preamp-box-PSU-chassis-/221611997159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33991ab7e7)
Here's the Sure box from PE with a YJ Blue/Black board that I listening to right now:
(http://i.imgur.com/3yZpZcJl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xDsTTLnl.jpg)
-
I have the larger pre-drilled Sure chassis. It's nice, but you are correct, it is just a tube, which makes board mounting somewhat inconvenient. Every chassis/box I've purchased since is a split-design. So much easier to work with.
This box on E-bay will fit the NEW Sure 3110 2x15W amp board:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/B0905-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-amplifier-case-Preamp-box-PSU-chassis-/221611997159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33991ab7e7 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/B0905-Full-Aluminum-Enclosure-mini-amplifier-case-Preamp-box-PSU-chassis-/221611997159?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33991ab7e7)
This is a nice case, and in fact I just completed a build with it using the new Sure 3110 board. Take a look at post #5969 from December 1 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-597.html#post4139587) on the huge DIYAudio tpa3116 thread. I posted a couple pictures. Personally, I think that box is the perfect size for the new Sure 3110 board (same size as the Sure 3116 by the way): small enough to be, well, small, but big enough to be easy to work with.
Note also that lacro's link above is but one seller of this "B-0905" chassis. On ebay, I see only silver-faced ones, but I emailed the seller in advance to arrange for a black face.
-
Thanks Matt and Lacro , you guys rock
This will be my first amp diy..... so insider tips you provide are helpful
I didn't know Sure has a new 3110 board !
I was just going to order it from PE so thanks for noting this info, Maybe they aren't carrying it yet, I'll check the Sure store at that auction place
Is the new one for 4 ohm speakers ?
A redesign?
-
Just ordered the linked case and plan on ordering the new Sure 3110 15 watt X 2 board.
I'll reference the links for the potentiometer referenced earlier here and also an LED.
I planned on buying the banana speaker binding posts from PE but wanted to see which ones you guys would recommend ?
The rear plate is somewhat limited in space and I want to make sure I have enough distance between connections so there is no opportunity for a short. So maybe still quality ones but less profile maybe?
RCA jacks are all about the same size and I think I have a pair from PE in the parts bin already . I know I don't want to use the cheap connectors or pot. That's what the Lepai was.
-
Just ordered the linked case and plan on ordering the new Sure 3110 15 watt X 2 board.
I'll reference the links for the potentiometer referenced earlier here and also an LED.
I planned on buying the banana speaker binding posts from PE but wanted to see which ones you guys would recommend ?
The rear plate is somewhat limited in space and I want to make sure I have enough distance between connections so there is no opportunity for a short. So maybe still quality ones but less profile maybe?
RCA jacks are all about the same size and I think I have a pair from PE in the parts bin already . I know I don't want to use the cheap connectors or pot. That's what the Lepai was.
If you want small ones, I have had good experience with these binding posts, but I got them from a different seller. I even bought them a second time. They are pretty good quality, and very small which makes them ideal for small boxes. They are drilled straight through, allowing banana plugs to seat full depth.
I ordered my Sure amp board direct from Sure's web site, got it in less than 2 weeks. PE doesn't carry the new Sure TPA 3110/3116 boards.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XD-3-10X-Copper-Binding-Post-Banana-Plug-for-Speaker-Amplifier-Terminal-4mm-Jack-/111236937105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e63cf591 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/XD-3-10X-Copper-Binding-Post-Banana-Plug-for-Speaker-Amplifier-Terminal-4mm-Jack-/111236937105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e63cf591)
(http://i.imgur.com/OcxSaH5l.jpg)
-
Thanks for posting and the link , 'preciate it ,
I looked for those same jacks , and think I found them but from a seller with 100% positive feedback
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141174639086 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/141174639086)
The linked seller from the previous post is moving closer to 200 negative feedback ratings this year
-
The sellers already shipped the case and banana posts this morning !
Hazard Fraught had a sale on the 5 speed 8 inch drill press this week for $49 so picked one up for drilling jack holes
-
The sellers already shipped the case and banana posts this morning !
Hazard Fraught had a sale on the 5 speed 8 inch drill press this week for $49 so picked one up for drilling jack holes
Might want to pick up one of these to go with it: http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=drill+press+vise (http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=drill+press+vise)
It's pretty cheap with 20-25% coupon, and makes life easier/safer when using a DP.
-
Thanks for helping out 'cro
Got a coupon from the purchase on the drill press earlier today so will head back tomorrow to pick one of those up that you suggested.
I should have grabbed one of these drill presses already , could have used it several times on other projects
Any suggestions for a good power supply for the new Sure 3110 board ?
I'm looking on CL for a good linear PSU but around here that's going to take some time, so will need to use a brick for the time being
-
Any suggestions for a good power supply for the new Sure 3110 board ?
I'm looking on CL for a good linear PSU but around here that's going to take some time, so will need to use a brick for the time being
This one was recently given a good review on the DIY Audio forum:
http://www.amazon.com/Vgp-ac19v26-Vgp-ac19v24-Vgp-ac19v10-Vgp-ac19v11-Vgp-ac19v12/dp/B00AWLJ7VK (http://www.amazon.com/Vgp-ac19v26-Vgp-ac19v24-Vgp-ac19v10-Vgp-ac19v11-Vgp-ac19v12/dp/B00AWLJ7VK)
I have tried several 12-24 V SMPS bricks with 1-6 amp output ratings. They all worked. The 18-21V laptop bricks seem to be the most popular as the chip delivers more power with higher voltage. I really like my Astron SL-11A 13.8V linear PS for the best sound quality I have heard so far.
-
Any suggestions for a good power supply for the new Sure 3110 board ?
I'm looking on CL for a good linear PSU but around here that's going to take some time, so will need to use a brick for the time being
The Astron (for example, RS-12A) power supplies are really popular. Many have commented that they are better than batteries.
Where are you located? I actually have my Astron RS-12A up on Craigslist (Chicago). Nothing wrong with it, except that I built the Sigma11 (http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/) to replace it.
-
Matt;
I'm in NW Ohio , the glass city
A little too far too drive but thanks for the thought
-
Can anyone point me to the Oscon model being used? I found some info on the DIY thread but when I search for the part on Mouser's the price is showing up in Euro so I am wondering if I am searching for the right part for use in US.
Edit: never mind just noticed that Mouser was set to show the pricing in Euro :oops:
-
Just ordered the NEW Sure 3110 board from their auction place store this morning
Now have to get standoffs , a panel mount power jack , LED , hook-up wire and a solid SPST switch.
Looking at the new Hazard Fraught drill press vise I picked I see the jaws don't close together on both sides so it's back to the store to see if they're all like that ?
-
Can anyone point me to the Oscon model being used? I found some info on the DIY thread but when I search for the part on Mouser's the price is showing up in Euro so I am wondering if I am searching for the right part for use in US.
Edit: never mind just noticed that Mouser was set to show the pricing in Euro :oops
I find Digi-Key has cheaper/quicker shipping.
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?mpart=25SEPF330M&vendor=10 (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?mpart=25SEPF330M&vendor=10)
-
Perfect. Thanks for sharing the link since I'm just about to order the parts for my first mod attempt on the sure 3110 old version plus the 3116 audiobah board. What would be a good shopping list for a first time modder? I'm also looking for some high quality resistors buy have no idea what to look for.
-
Perfect. Thanks for sharing the link since I'm just about to order the parts for my first mod attempt on the sure 3110 old version plus the 3116 audiobah board. What would be a good shopping list for a first time modder? I'm also looking for some high quality resistors buy have no idea what to look for.
Take a look at the DIYAudio tpa3116 wiki (http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/TPA3116D2_Boards). It's 3116-centric, but much of the information is relevant to the 3110.
There hasn't been too much discussion about the old Sure 3110 board lately, and going from memory, there wasn't a lot of modding done to those, except changing the big electrolytic caps on either side of the amp IC. You can add ferrite beads to the output wires if you're concerned about EMI. Even with the new 3110 board, I find myself satisfied with only changing out the electrolytic DC de-coupling caps. I might be leaving some potential gains on the table, but with this simple mod, it's the best-sounding nearfield amp I've heard, so I'm in no hurry to do further modding. (To be pedantic, I did additional "mods" to both new and old Sure boards by adding screw terminal blocks to the board, but that's for convenience, not to bring any sonic benefit. And some would even argue I'm hurting sonics a bit by not direct soldering wires to the board.)
Side note: over on DIYAudio, someone posted a pic of a dual PBTL 3110 amp based on the "AC1103" board. Search for "30W PBTL" on AliExpress to see the AC1103 board, or this link (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TI-digital-amplifier-board-PBTL-output-power-30W-Mono/1600798842.html) might work. I'd like to try this board out, but the unit is "Bag" and I can't figure out what that means. At over $100, it should mean you get multiple boards, but it would have to be at least 10 to be a good value IMO.
-
okay , the HF drill press vise IS okay after doing some final QC on it as one of the four screws holding the jaw edge wasn't threaded in all the way so was sticking out .
Donning my HF muppet-grade felt work gloves I adjusted the travel on the bottom plate and it's ready to go.
I'm going to see if they have any of the small vises left in the store
-
I reduced gain tiny old Sure3110 too and replaced the tiny input ceramics by Wima TH 2.5mm MKS.
-
A newbie question, but how is the wiring for the mute and other connections shown here hooked up?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110680)
I assume its for the power switch and LED on the front but am unsure which connects where.
-
A newbie question, but how is the wiring for the mute and other connections shown here hooked up?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110680)
I assume its for the power switch and LED on the front but am unsure which connects where.
Your photo is Matt's TPA 3110 2x15W Sure board that he modded. For convenience, Matt added 2 screw down connection blocks on the Right side of the board. He installed a switch between SD (shut down) and grd. This is to prevent the on/off pop heard in speakers. It is not a power on/off switch. The other block he added is power for his LED (VCC/GRD).
This is a photo of the stock board, note that all connections - power in, signal in, and speaker out are all have jacks or screw blocks already. However, there are direct solder holes if you prefer to hard wire. If you want the "pop preventing" shut down switch, and LED, you will have to do as Matt did with the blocks or wire directly.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ojekzuwl.jpg)
-
I reduced gain tiny old Sure3110 too and replaced the tiny input ceramics by Wima TH 2.5mm MKS.
How did you lower the gain? Do you have any photos of both mods?
-
Take a look at the DIYAudio tpa3116 wiki (http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/TPA3116D2_Boards). It's 3116-centric, but much of the information is relevant to the 3110.
There hasn't been too much discussion about the old Sure 3110 board lately, and going from memory, there wasn't a lot of modding done to those, except changing the big electrolytic caps on either side of the amp IC. You can add ferrite beads to the output wires if you're concerned about EMI. Even with the new 3110 board, I find myself satisfied with only changing out the electrolytic DC de-coupling caps. I might be leaving some potential gains on the table, but with this simple mod, it's the best-sounding nearfield amp I've heard, so I'm in no hurry to do further modding. (To be pedantic, I did additional "mods" to both new and old Sure boards by adding screw terminal blocks to the board, but that's for convenience, not to bring any sonic benefit. And some would even argue I'm hurting sonics a bit by not direct soldering wires to the board.)
Side note: over on DIYAudio, someone posted a pic of a dual PBTL 3110 amp based on the "AC1103" board. Search for "30W PBTL" on AliExpress to see the AC1103 board, or this link (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/TI-digital-amplifier-board-PBTL-output-power-30W-Mono/1600798842.html) might work. I'd like to try this board out, but the unit is "Bag" and I can't figure out what that means. At over $100, it should mean you get multiple boards, but it would have to be at least 10 to be a good value IMO.
Thanks for the tips and the link!
-
How did you lower the gain? Do you have any photos of both mods?
many moons ago:) page 20 post #397
-
Just received the amp case lacro tipped me to back a few posts and it got here under 2 weeks even with the holiday mail
Looks like it will work out well for the Sure 3110 board when it gets here.
I recently ordered the SMSL SA36A PRO from amazon to compare and it arrived here Tuesday.
I'll have to let it run a while, but first impressions, the on-off switch is nominal at best. Sounds bass shy.I might send it back if it doesn't get better sounding. It's small.
Using the Little Dot MKII+ with upgraded NOS Russian tubes as a pre and V-DAC from a Marantz CDP.
Update; After turning down the preamp considerably the 3118 SMSL sounds better . I think I was exceeding it's limits at first try.
On/Off switch works fine , just feels like a cheap momentary switch at first. I'm using the SMSL 36A P until my Sure 3110 board and mod parts get here.
-
I built an input selector (3 in) to use with my YJ 3 tube pre, and my favorite class D amp the Sure TPA 3110 2X15W with Oscon caps. Now I can easily switch sources at my desktop set-up. I can switch between streaming media on my PC, CD's, and my old cassette deck which sounds absolutely amazing with the tubes, and class D amp. I have about 200 albums on cassettes that I haven't heard in years. Bob James 'Hands Down' sounds amazing!! :thumb:
I have a little over $20 total invested in the selector box. Cheap, worthwhile, and fun project requiring 48 separate solder connections, and drilling 9 holes.
"(http://i.imgur.com/iwjrAUAl.jpg)"
"(http://i.imgur.com/Kbe5CwRl.jpg)"
"(http://i.imgur.com/ocRheIql.jpg)"
"(http://i.imgur.com/MD49yQml.jpg)"
-
This one was recently given a good review on the DIY Audio forum:
http://www.amazon.com/Vgp-ac19v26-Vgp-ac19v24-Vgp-ac19v10-Vgp-ac19v11-Vgp-ac19v12/dp/B00AWLJ7VK
Anyone know of a source for a panel mount jack to fit the 6 X 4.4 mm plug tip size a lot of these 19 volt bricks have ?
I tried PE, Digi'Key and the auction place but no luck.
Update ; never mind , I just found IBM 16 volt 4/5 amp bricks that have the more readily available 2.5mm x 5.5 mm tip
-
The Astron (for example, RS-12A) power supplies are really popular. Many have commented that they are better than batteries.
Where are you located? I actually have my Astron RS-12A up on Craigslist (Chicago). Nothing wrong with it, except that I built the Sigma11 (http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/) to replace it.
Thanks for selling me the RS-12A. It is in the back of my car getting cryogenically treated i(-7 wind chill in Chicago today) Looking forward to putting it into my system when I get back to Philly.
-
Tried the SMSL 36A Pro yesterday with a pair of more efficient TB small rangers and the Little Dot tube preamp and it's a much happier marriage.
Very nice sound.
Mojo rising .
The first listen was with a 4 ohm Klipsch MTM with Tractrix horn that is not that efficient . Not a good match.
I'm using the 36A until I get my 3110 board modded and set up.
-
why would you think efficiency influences sound very much? 82dB speakers sound very good here.
-
Maybe it was a mismatch irregardless the efficiency
Wasn't there a post several pages back ( by Matt ? ) about this very issue ?
I went back 10 pages but couldn't spot it although I read it last week going back through the thread
-
My 3116 has been bumped by my version of the TDA7297. Even with Muse ES input caps (custom config) vs. Blackgate N's..... The TDA7297 sound like something in another league.
I could tell in 3 seconds.
I like TDA7297, anyone else have chance to compare?, Is your version, highly modified 7297?
-
Maybe it was a mismatch irregardless the efficiency
Wasn't there a post several pages back ( by Matt ? ) about this very issue ?
I went back 10 pages but couldn't spot it although I read it last week going back through the thread
Old Klipsch filters have some reputation for impedanceswings, maybe new filters are designed to match the old behavior? Impedance plays big role with these amps, looking at your speakers impedancecurve could give indication for you, 4 ohm most likely just minimum impedance at 1 frequency (like ~200hz???)
-
Mark , The Klipsch actually drop below 4 ohms to 3.3 but I'll have to go back and dig out the information to see where that dip is located.
-
KR500
If your Klipsch MTM speakers are the old theater speakers they are probably somewhat like the Klipschorns that I own. This is an old review of the Khorn by Richard Heyser and shows a lot of information about it's impedances. https://community.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/1037187/Richard%20C%20Heyser%20KHorn%20Review.pdf
I'm also surprised that it's tractrix horn is not very efficient.
Cheers,
Rod
-
Yes,the tractrix horn is very efficient and if I remember correctly is padded down quite a bit with resistors.
I'll have to dig out the crossover info . A forum member on Parts Express Tech Tak forum bought the OEM crossover from Klipsch for the KLH-650 cabinet and posted the parts which I replicated and put in a 2 cu.ft. cabinet with 2 of the Klipsch metal 6.5 woofers.
The OEM cabinet was a little smaller , maybe 1.25 cu. ft. or so .
The Klipsch Klone cabs I made are in the basement by the treadmill since my main stereo room has a Class A 7 watt SET and a pair of Seas full rangers.
Different kettle of fish . It took a bit to get used to the horn at first listen.
-
Got one of these on order. Seems to be the same design as the Audiobah green board. Now the hunt begins for all the other parts...
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/z/KFkAAOSwd4tUIoCk/$_57.JPG)
-
Just received my 3110 2 X 15 watt amp board from Sure in a nice box .
RCA input jacks are mounted on the board itself.
Now just waiting for the caps and switches from Digi-Key.
-
Just received my 3110 2 X 15 watt amp board from Sure in a nice box .
RCA input jacks are mounted on the board itself.
Now just waiting for the caps and switches from Digi-Key.
Before ya start "ripin-n-tearin", fire it up! It sounds good right out of the box....
-
Thanks 'cro
Yep , just waiting on the power supply from Amazon and power jack from Parts Express so I can do exactly that.
Maybe next weekend...... hey wait a minute, I have a Pyramid 13.8 V 3 Amp PSU for my V-DAC that I can use for power.
I'm a tax return preparer so pretty limited in time this month as work is gearing up
-
Got a break from work and hooked up my Sure 3110 board to a pair of Amethyst speakers . Source was a Sony portable minidisc player for starters.
Right away sounds very nice at medium to lower volumes. I'll have to add a pop protection like the one Matt used on his board.
The 16 v/ 4.5 amp laptop brick I got on line has a 2.5mm barrel and was really tough to unplug . The Sure onboard jack must be for 2.1mm jacks ?
Since the Amethysts are 4 ohm cabinets I then changed to the 24V brick that came with my Dayton DTA-2 and it must be a 2.1mm plug barrel as it's a much nicer fit.
I then interfaced my Little Dot MKII+ tube preamp which the Sure board quickly didn't like as it went into shutdown mode in about a second.
The Little Dot works very well with my Topping and DTA , not the Sureboard though.
-
Some mentioned earlier tpachips getting real hot with Dayton brick, inductors too, so could be unfiltered switchingfrequency???? When little dot adds a little in that frequency range it could be too much maybe???? BTW above 16V tpa3110 isn't giving anything extra imo, power is identical if I remember datasheet correctly.
-
Got a break from work and hooked up my Sure 3110 board to a pair of Amethyst speakers . Source was a Sony portable minidisc player for starters.
Right away sounds very nice at medium to lower volumes. I'll have to add a pop protection like the one Matt used on his board.
The 16 v/ 4.5 amp laptop brick I got on line has a 2.5mm barrel and was really tough to unplug . The Sure onboard jack must be for 2.1mm jacks ?
Since the Amethysts are 4 ohm cabinets I then changed to the 24V brick that came with my Dayton DTA-2 and it must be a 2.1mm plug barrel as it's a much nicer fit.
I then interfaced my Little Dot MKII+ tube preamp which the Sure board quickly didn't like as it went into shutdown mode in about a second.
The Little Dot works very well with my Topping and DTA , not the Sureboard though.
Check the output voltage of the 24V Dayton brick. The one I have delivers more than 24V.
-
What wattage Weller Soldering Iron should I use on adding the mods for the Sure 3110 amp board ?
They have a 25 and 35 watt model with various tips
Right now I have the cheep n' cheerful Stahl $19 soldering station but also own a nice solid stand and would like to get a decent fixed wattage iron.
Just wondered what this threads posters used for their mods
-
I have this: Circuit Specialists CS1A (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi-station1a.html). 40-watt, adjustable temperature. Was $30 when I bought it, though now it says discontinued. The pointed tip it comes with is OK. I later bought 1.2mm and 1.6mm tips, and found them to be much better.
I can't remember what caused me to buy this in the first place, but it's the first decent soldering iron I ever owned, so I don't have any frame of reference. But for the amp hacking I've done, it's been just fine. I don't really find myself wishing for anything else at this point.
-
What wattage Weller Soldering Iron should I use on adding the mods for the Sure 3110 amp board ?
They have a 25 and 35 watt model with various tips
Right now I have the cheep n' cheerful Stahl $19 soldering station but also own a nice solid stand and would like to get a decent fixed wattage iron.
Just wondered what this threads posters used for their mods
Hakko. Yeah, they cost a little more but the quality and handling encourages you to take on more. Best purchase I've made for diy.
-
^^^^^^
+1 :thumb:
-
Anybody know the input impedance of the TPA3116? I'm having trouble getting sufficient volume using my Tortuga LDR passive pre. :(
Anyone else using the 3116 with a passive pre?
-
Anybody know the input impedance of the TPA3116? I'm having trouble getting sufficient volume using my Tortuga LDR passive pre. :(
It depends on the gain setting. See the table at the top of page 14 of the datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf). That table is reproduced under the Gain Setting section of the tpa3116 wiki (http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/TPA3116D2_Boards) at DIYAudio.
From my experience, most tpa3116 boards seem to default to 26 dB gain setting which corresponds to an input impedance of 30k Ohms.
Hope that helps!
-
It depends on the gain setting. See the table at the top of page 14 of the datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3116d2.pdf). That table is reproduced under the Gain Setting section of the tpa3116 wiki (http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/TPA3116D2_Boards) at DIYAudio.
From my experience, most tpa3116 boards seem to default to 26 dB gain setting which corresponds to an input impedance of 30k Ohms.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for that. That 's starting to get into the tall grass. I guess there would be a way to change the gain but too small scale for me. My tube amp worked with the Tortuga but it's out of commision. Time for a new amp. :)
-
Thanks for that. That 's starting to get into the tall grass. I guess there would be a way to change the gain but too small scale for me. My tube amp worked with the Tortuga but it's out of commision. Time for a new amp. :)
Do you know what tpa3116 board you have? If you have the Yuan Jing Blue/Black board ("YJBlue", Danzz design, see wiki mentioned above), then it is very easy to increase the gain (and decrease input impedance) if you can do basic soldering. Increasing gain to 32db/15kohm requires only one resistor to be changed. Upping to 36db/9kohm requires two resistors to be changed.
If this is something you think you might do, I'm happy to help with more detailed instructions. I will mention one caveat, though: I increased the gain to 32db on one of my YJBlue boards, and it caused a slight hiss to show up when no music was playing. It went away when any sounds were played, and was low enough that you had to be within inches of the speaker, but some folks may find this to be a deal-breaker. YMMV and all that. :)
-
Do you know what tpa3116 board you have? If you have the Yuan Jing Blue/Black board ("YJBlue", Danzz design, see wiki mentioned above), then it is very easy to increase the gain (and decrease input impedance) if you can do basic soldering. Increasing gain to 32db/15kohm requires only one resistor to be changed. Upping to 36db/9kohm requires two resistors to be changed.
If this is something you think you might do, I'm happy to help with more detailed instructions. I will mention one caveat, though: I increased the gain to 32db on one of my YJBlue boards, and it caused a slight hiss to show up when no music was playing. It went away when any sounds were played, and was low enough that you had to be within inches of the speaker, but some folks may find this to be a deal-breaker. YMMV and all that. :)
Thanks for the offer of assistance.
I have the audiobah board. It's unmodified. I do have a soldering iron. I can live with a little hiss.
I still want to make sure that I haven't overlooked something when I assembled the Tortuga diy board. Also the input impedance of the Tortuga may be able to be adjusted so I need to figure that out and decide which way to go.
Regards,
Roy
-
audiobah/ac1308 inputimpedance probably below standard 30k and gain also little below 26dB, standard board, if I have time I look. (Signal has 10k to GND I remember so could be 7.5k inputimpedance????)
Inputimpedance setting Tortuga may affect outputimpedance LDR too, probably in manual, from what I read outputimpedance could be till 5k in standardsetting? 5k->audiobah might be a high, there also being a tiny capacitor to gnd on signal input, don't know...
-
I was looking at the Stahl and Weller $50 soldering stations but just ordered the Hakko Dash 25 watt iron and 2 tips for it , a 2mm bevel and 3mm screwdriver tip from a Hakko Dealer in NJ
-
:D
Wow I received the most unexpected moment of audio nirvana. I just replaced a Dayton DTA 100a with SMSL SA-60, and this is just application for TV, nothing is expected. I have an apple TV hooked up to it, and I am stunned playing Beck's morning phase. I like what I'm hearing more than with my turntable and on my main system. I have to A/B. But man, I was not prepared for this, but am just so darn happy. This 3116 is something very special. Just glad I got to experience at random and be amazed.
-
Good to know , I just bought a SMSL 36A pro and it will replace a Topping 21 for the TV 2 channel sound . Also have the Apple TV2 and will be switching amps this week.
I'm looking at the SMSL $49 DAc to include for the TV
-
Does consensus opinion support the use of around 19V for a power supply as listed here http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/TPA3116D2_Boards#Power_Supply ? I am interested in feedback on different power supplies people have used and how they influence the sound. This is just for my SMSL Sa-60. I used the Dayton 24V power supply from the DTA-100A, and the provided 19.5V supply (I think, I do not have it in front of me). I am not experienced person with electronics, but the 24V seemed to have a fatter and warmer more 3d sound with sloppy or ill defined bass, whereas the 19.5 was cleaner with tight bass, even perhaps more of it, but less warm and 3d. Am I crazy? What have others found out?
-
The quality of the power supply makes a big difference. I highly recommend picking up a used Astron. The voltage is lower but I take that any day to get the HUGE improvement in sound vs laptop bricks or some of the wall warts supplied with cheaper t amps. There are a few threads on this forum on the Astrons if you search for it.
-
Although the standard input impedance of the YJ blue/black TPA3116 board is 30K which is a little below the recommended minimum of 47K for most passives, it worked remarkably well in my little single source system. The YJ TPA3116 powered by an Astron PS into my resistor based passive, modded CD player and 92db speakers produced very nice sonics. So passive users should give it a try. I did and was pleasantly surprised.
-
Ok so I have a question. 3116 fever struck hard so I bought the Yuan Jing blue board and some other stuff to put it all together in a home built cabinet. Maybe I will do some mods later if I have time but..... I do see that a lot of people put a Panasonic FM 2200uF / 25V on the power supply. Is this always an improvement or does it depend on the board?? And is it possible to use a bigger cap (I have a 3300uF 35V lying around)?
Also, I read in some posts that this board does "pop" when flipping the power switch. Now the board has not arrived yet so I don't know if this "pop" actually occurs , but any suggestion up front on how to prevent this "pop".
Update 2014-03-05:
I the meantime I received the board and it does not pop so I don't have to worry about that. Also I did end up buying the Panansonic FM caps because these appear to be the best onces. According to many hour of reading online.
I made some progress on the cabinet/enclosure already. I used some pieces of MDF, some red spray paint and I bought a strip of alumuninium (30mmx3mm). I think will not use a volume pot because when this i finished I would like to combine it with a 6n3 preamp. I temporarily connected everything and so far I am pleased with the results. The board is connected to my airport express for now.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=116556)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=116557)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121861)
-
Is the work and cost involved really superior to the dta 100 amp offered by PE?
By the time you purchase power supply, pre etc you are pretty darn close for an unfinished product. Anything else finished comparable? Have a topping 22 driving the pioneers, looking for a little more juice.
thanks
-
I have the DTA 100 and it's not in the same league.
-
I ordered the same board as Trikster on the previous page - I believe it is based of the Audiobah board.
I see it has the 10K resistor to ground, but have trouble figuring out what that does to the input impedance of the amp - I see a 20K and 100K as well - that made me think the 26db/30K input impedance, but see that someone above posted that the 10K resistor changes it - any way to confirm what the impedance is?
Hoping to use the amp as a power amp letting the preamp do all volume/input controls.
-
For a "preamp" the inputimpedance is high enough, for a passive preamp you could use 10k as indication for that ampboard. With DMM I measured 9k2 btw, on my ac1308 ampboard powered on. I am not certain it is completely accurate measuring that way, I would expect a little above 10k but measure a little below, but might also be frequency dependant and chinese parts may be 10% tolerance or worse??
-
Thanks. So from what I gather, the input impedance is actually 10K not 30K? Or am I totally confused? :duh:
-
Yes, I would say 10k is a nice estimate for inputimpedance regardless of gainsetting on those boards.
-
Recently finished Tygers' mods to the Audio Source Amp 100 and have just moved to the Sure 3110 board to upgrade the 8 caps.
The Sure is SO much smaller in scale compared to working on the audio source . Bare minimum of through hole, solder etc.
I got the OEM caps out and will solder in the new Oscon caps keeping them 2mm off the board as recommended.
I picked up a Radio Shack 13 volt 3 amp power supply at the going out of business sale and will try using that as power source to compare with the brick I got.
-
Recently finished Tygers' mods to the Audio Source Amp 100 and have just moved to the Sure 3110 board to upgrade the 8 caps.
The Sure is SO much smaller in scale compared to working on the audio source . Bare minimum of through hole, solder etc.
I got the OEM caps out and will solder in the new Oscon caps keeping them 2mm off the board as recommended.
I picked up a Radio Shack 13 volt 3 amp power supply at the going out of business sale and will try using that as power source to compare with the brick I got.
I hope you like the Sure 3110/Oscon mod as much as I do. It's still my favorite....
-
Hooked up the Sure board after upgrading the caps .
Using my Little Dot Preamp knocks the amp out on overload right away
Using a Sony 520 Minidisc deck with VDAC results in rapid stuttering signal
Going back to a Sony Minidisc Walkman's headphone output jack... plays fine
So.... appears attenuation is needed for this board unless using a lower than line level source like ipod, MDWalkman, or smartphone.
I'll try adding a volume potentiometer before the board input to see if that gets the issue of it being overdriven at the input controlled
-
or play with pin 5 and 6; gainsetting
-
Hooked up the Sure board after upgrading the caps .
Using my Little Dot Preamp knocks the amp out on overload right away
Using a Sony 520 Minidisc deck with VDAC results in rapid stuttering signal
Going back to a Sony Minidisc Walkman's headphone output jack... plays fine
So.... appears attenuation is needed for this board unless using a lower than line level source like ipod, MDWalkman, or smartphone.
I'll try adding a volume potentiometer before the board input to see if that gets the issue of it being overdriven at the input controlled
I haven't had any problems with this amp being overdriven with any source, linelevel or othwerwise I have thrown at it, including a DVD player, old cassette deck, old FM portable radio, PC streaming through a Schiit Modi DAC, Yaun Jing 3 tube preamp I have even used it as a power amp through the pre-outs from my Marantz receiver. I haven't needed attenuation for any source.
I have encountered that rapid stuttering you describe with a TPA 3116 that I had just modified. The only thing I found was a loose speaker connection on the board. After tightening, everything was fine. I know others have commented on this same stuttering which for the most part was something like a bad solder connection or maybe an incorrect cap polarity. I know you probably have it correct, but it's worth checking.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=120052)
Hope you find the problem. Did it sound OK with the stock caps?
-
Thanks for your information
I'll check the speaker terminal joints tomorrow
-
Checked the speaker terminals and they're solid , all caps 2MM off the board and polarity is correct .
Thanks for posting the picture 'Cro as it was a good suggestion.
Switched the 4 ohm Amethysts to the 8 ohm Overnight Sensations and the stuttering is substantially less , but still there.
Switched the HP brick to a Radio Shack Linear 13.8 volt 3 AMP PSU and the intermittent shutoff/on is spread further apart , but still present .
If I go back to the lower level Minidisc Walkman headphone output there is music but as soon as I insert the deck level signal, problem returns.
This board has had this issue from the first day so I'm beginning to suspect there is a pre-existing condition. Frustrating.
Since my Audio Source amp 100 worked out so well with Tyger 23's mods I might just do another one of those and run them as L/R in bridged mode
-
I had stutter once with 3116 and signal generator (PC) when feeding frequencies 8k - 20k, high volumelevel, and with only one speakersystem, I mean same repeated sweep on same ampboard with other speaker, same level, no stutter. 3110 outputfilter has low filterfrequency, maybe the peaking gets excessive and the chip can't handle any signal near that frequency, that would make sense to me.
With 3110 I also had stutter once, just cd input, but that was caused by capacitor on avcc pin, that is in the middle on inputside 3110, I had bigger capacitor there when stutter occurred, with smaller capacitor no stutter same cd. The capacitor there was part of a filter too, so capacity in itself probably wasn't reason for stutter, I was playing with values, so didn't measure anything, just changed value.
The 3116 stutter was on a speakersystem that wasn't mine, so I also didn't find out why it happened exactly. BTW rapid popping repeatedly or rapid on/off switching repeatedly I experienced many times, but I wouldn't call that stutter, others may?
-
Thanks for your post Mark .
The Sure 3110 issue I have is rapid on/off cycling
Since Lacro has fed various signal sources to his sure Sure 3110 with no problems I'm guessing my board has an issue.
This weekend I'm going to move everything up to my dormer stereo setup and try things there just to rule out any possible basement electrical circuit factors. Last option then I'm out of ideas
-
Thanks for your post Mark .
The Sure 3110 issue I have is rapid on/off cycling
Since Lacro has fed various signal sources to his sure Sure 3110 with no problems I'm guessing my board has an issue.
This weekend I'm going to move everything up to my dormer stereo setup and try things there just to rule out any possible basement electrical circuit factors. Last option then I'm out of ideas
When you move to your dormer set-up, maybe you could connect your speakers to the 4 large holes that are for speaker binding posts on the board instead of the screw-down speaker connections. Just another thing to try :scratch:
Have you contacted Sure for their input? Also, try asking about this issue over at DIY Audio Forum: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp.html)
-
Good suggestions, thanks for taking the time to chime in .
Used the larger speaker inputs but no change
e-mailed Sure and waiting for response.
-
No response from Sure
Mark noted that the Little Dot preamp is only supposed to be used with DC coupled amplifiers, so there in maybe the issue with this TPA3110 board.
-
No response from Sure
Mark noted that the Little Dot preamp is only supposed to be used with DC coupled amplifiers, so there in maybe the issue with this TPA3110 board.
Quite the opposite, was mentioned in combination with Hafler, you really need blocking cap, that is what owner/user Little DotIII said, because at startup the tubeamp puts out 60V transients, the Hafler amp/speakers can survive that with blocking caps.
I wonder if any tpachip ampboard can, they do all have blockingcaps, but they could be very weak.
-
I am getting interested in the TPA3116.
Has anyone tried these monoblocks from Sure?
http://store.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board/aa-ab31184 (http://store.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board/aa-ab31184)
Do they sound comparable to the 2 channels?
-
An update to my 3110 issue , I had to take some time off for something but finally got around to installing a simple 50K audio pot from PE in a Hammond plastic box with some RCA connectors.
Using a Sony Mini Disc deck and some Overnight Sensation speakers and the 3110 board works fine. No on/off cycling
-
Found that the old AR RCA interconnect I was using had an intermittent connection on one end ... so it's in the trash . I'm already making my own new IC's this week with supplies from Redco. Made a few last week deciding on connectors, techflex and shrink configurations to see which I liked best.
This morning I hooked up a Marantz CD player to the Sure boards powering some Overnight Sensation speakers to listen to.
I noticed the boards sound better with a Pyramid 13.8 power supply than using a laptop brick. I added a large cap to the output of the Pyramid inside the case per a recommendation at a user review of the unit on Amazon .The Pyramid was originally purchased to power a Musical Fidelity V-DAC instead of the OEM wall wart.
I have the 3110 2X15 Sure Board , the 2X8 version and the Sure 7498 board . All three sound better with the Pyramid PSU than the brick.
Still getting some occasional on/off once in a while when turning the volume up past 2 o'clock with the Sure 3110 2X15 board .
-
Can you share more on what you did to the Pyramid power supply? I have a laptop brick I will be using first, but will move onto the Pyramid once I determine where everything is going to end up.
-
The reviews and comments of the Pyramid 13.8 PSU at Amazon mention adding a large capacitor to the output terminals . One reviewer added it on the outside of the case , another reviewer installed the cap on the output terminals inside the case and had a link to pictures. Unfortunately he took down the link to the mod, maybe for liability or safety concerns.... dunno .
Reviews on the Pyramid PSU are so-so, with noise being one of the complaints . A lot of people purchased these units to upgrade the Musical Fidelity V-DAC back when it came out as a C+C upgrade
-
How is the pyramid psu compared to the Astron?
-
FYI guys there is a new group buy for pre assembled monoblocks at diyaudio from member gmarsh. Fully modifiable with top notch parts. Not cheap but the feedback on his previous group buy is stellar. Maybe rhing will share his thoughts if he hasn't already. 100 per board but still c&c. There may be stereo boards for less but 8ohm only I think.
Bare boards also available for cheap. For the TPA enthusiast I don't think there's a better quality offering.
-
I don't think cheap is good word here, chinese dual mono is ~$6, two tpa's and all parts and pcb included.
-
I don't think cheap is good word here, chinese dual mono is ~$6, two tpa's and all parts and pcb included.
Yeah but quality costs!
-
Here is the link to the 'Wiener' mono/stereo group buy:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/276508-wiener-group-buy-2-stereo-pbtl-editions-available.html
What's special about group buys like these is usually once they are done they are done. The stereo 4ohm boards for instance are no longer available. Second rounds don't happen that often. So for those folks looking to take the TPA potential to its limit here's a great opportunity that may not happen again.
-
True, selecting genuine, good parts cost money, more than just buying cheapest parts available on local chinese market.
Buying a prototype ampboard is basicly what you do with that groupbuy, designer didn't measure or test anything to improve a prototype to arrive at "best" 3116 ampboard. He is lazy. Just as lazy as the chinese that label speakerpolarity wrong because they didn't check.
In Canadian designers own words: I'll bang out and sell a PCB.
-
Thanks for the heads up on the group buy Wush'. Appreciate it.
Actually I had read and have been following those posts at DIYA by forum member Marsh, but don't need another amp, although Marshes is probably better from the Sures ? doesn't seem the boards could be a "moneymaker" for him. I did think about picking one up though .
I'm pursuing the C+C Sure amp board builds here more as a learning opportunity for my solder and construction skillsl more than anything since there's the low cost and tiny form, along with the high general fun factor.
The Sure amp boards won't replace my low watt SET amp in our main listening room , the Tube AB amp in the dormer , or the Modded Audio Source Amp 100 w/ Little dot preamp in the exercise room.
Maybe the Topping 21 for the Mac or the SMSL 36 Pro for the TV though !
-
Can you share more on what you did to the Pyramid power supply? I have a laptop brick I will be using first, but will move onto the Pyramid once I determine where everything is going to end up.
FWIW I'm using a stock Pyramid PS-3KX regulated with the new dual chip TPA3116 and really like the combination.
-
True, selecting genuine, good parts cost money, more than just buying cheapest parts available on local chinese market.
Buying a prototype ampboard is basicly what you do with that groupbuy, designer didn't measure or test anything to improve a prototype to arrive at "best" 3116 ampboard. He is lazy. Just as lazy as the chinese that label speakerpolarity wrong because they didn't check.
In Canadian designers own words: I'll bang out and sell a PCB.
Um. Ok.
In any case I'm just giving a heads up not looking to get into a pissing match.
-
I am being factual. You think a prototype is the best quality offer one can buy. It is an unique opportunity to buy something that hasn't been tested. Previous board designer made he forgot to have a gnd input. He bangs out and sells pcb's, again his own words.
-
FWIW I'm using a stock Pyramid PS-3KX regulated with the new dual chip TPA3116 and really like the combination.
Yes, that's the same one I'm using . ( Edit - oops , nope I have the 4 which is a tad more dollar) .Looks like the price dropped since I bought mine from PE quite a while ago. $22 today at that large on line retailer. Edit - the model 4 is $29-30
The Amazon review by hifidawg has the comments regarding adding a 10,000uF 16 volt capacitor to the output terminals
One commenter to the review mentioned he replaced the circuit board mounted OEM cap with Nichicons
There are 88 reviews of the unit altogether
-
I just took the cover off the Pyramid 4K PSU I'm using and the 4700uF 25 volt cap on the circuit board is by manufacturer "GD"
I'm not familiar with GD .
Would there be an improvement in replacing that cap with a Nichicon ?
-
Looking at power supply options for the 3110. Is there an amperage minimum or a suggested amperage that is best for this board? i'm thinking 15V at this point. would like to get as much power and headroom prior to digi clipping as possible.
thanks ahead for any help
-
Looking at power supply options for the 3110. Is there an amperage minimum or a suggested amperage that is best for this board? i'm thinking 15V at this point. would like to get as much power and headroom prior to digi clipping as possible.
For detailed power requirements, consult the datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slos528d/slos528d.pdf). Look at the supply voltage versus power output, and also efficiency versus output power graphs starting on page 10.
For an example: look at page 12, figure 18 of the datasheet. For a 15V supply, 8R load, max output power is about 20 watts (with 10% THD---this will sound bad, in practice you'll not likely get anywhere near this). The next graph, figure 19, shows that at 20W output power, and an 18 V supply, efficiency is about 85%. In that scenario, the amp is actually pulling 20/.85 = 24 watts from the PSU. I believe those graphs are actually per channel, so in stereo mode, you multiply by two. So just round up to 50 watts.
A 15V PSU capable of 50W output needs to be able to do 50W/15V = 3.33A.
That's the reasonably quick, off-the-cuff calculation... You can repeat the exercise for different speaker loads, supply voltages, etc. Note also that it appears efficiency drops if you have an LC filter in place.
Another approach is to look at all the graphs and just consider worst-case scenario (even if it's not realistic). Say the max power the amp can push is 40W (in PBTL mode, i.e. mono, so one channel, don't multiply by 2 as we did above). Say efficiency is 60% (very pessimistic number), so total power draw is 66W. Heck, let's just round up to 100W for a big safety margin. That's just under 7 amps for a 15V supply.
To give you some anecdotal info: my speakers are about 85 dB/Watt/meter efficient. This is for nearfield listing, which means my listening distance is right about 1 meter. I used a free SPL meter app on my phone, and I usually listen to music around 60--70 dB. Those are pretty modest levels. I might touch on 80 dB on the rare occasion when I "crank it". Hopefully it's obvious that I'm not even putting a full watt into my speakers most of the time. There can of course be brief peaks which exceed 80 dB, but I highly doubt the speakers pull much over 5 watts at any given time. Any more than an instant and it would simply be too loud for me.
In this arrangement, I can quite comfortably get by on a 2x8W amp.
The very first 3110 amp I used was the $10 one by Sure that Parts-Express sells. I powered it with a 2A 12V wall-wart power supply. I think the PSU was $12 or $15 (more than the amp!). I never ran into power issues.
My fanciest 3110 amp (the newer Sure one, modded) used a Meanwell GS90A15-P1M PSU: 15V, 6A, 90W total output. Way more power than I needed.
-
My fanciest 3110 amp (the newer Sure one, modded) used a Meanwell GS90A15-P1M PSU: 15V, 6A, 90W total output. Way more power than I needed.
Hey Matt, You still listening to the Sure 3110 as your favorite or have you built something better?
-
Hey Matt, You still listening to the Sure 3110 as your favorite or have you built something better?
I built something else, not sure if it's better; specifically the GMARSH "Wiener" tpa3118 board. This was from his first group buy (a stereo board). Now's he's got a second group buy going on for mono boards. Here's my post (#551) with pics (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/269855-wiener-tpa3118-amplifier-card-56.html#post4311510) of that build.
Is it better than my favorite Sure 3110? That was back in April, and I can't remember if I did any A/B comparing between the Sure 3110 and the Wiener 3118. The Wiener definitely isn't any worse, I'm certain of that. Definitely has more headroom if I ever wanted to go louder or re-purpose it somewhere other than the desktop.
I'm sitting out the 2nd Wiener group buy (mono boards)... I almost jumped on it, but I realized I've been dabbling with tpa311x boards exclusively for nearly two years now! I have way more than any sane person needs. I do love 'em, but now curiosity has me wondering if there's greener pastures out there. Even if not, I enjoy the hacking, so nothing to lose. :) Going to dabble with class AB next, first a tda7297 and then maybe the Modulus 86... Maybe!
Right now my main focus is on the tda1387 x8 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/269199-tda1387-x8-dac-lets-check-its-design-mod-not-play-music-not.html) DAC. I mentioned it here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134972.0), but didn't get any responses.
-
Haven't been back here for a while. I still have my Wiener TPA3118 stereo amp playing in my system. Even after all this time, I still very much enjoy listening to this amp in my system. For those of you wanting to try new cables, I've been following Jeff Day's blog, Jeff's Place (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/ (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/). Jeff Day has been posting blog entries about these fantastic interconnects and speaker cables recommended by Shirokazu Yazaki of SPEC Corporation of Japan. I won't go into the SPEC Corporation's Class D amp or Yazaki-san's philosophy on "real sound," but I and many others have found validity in the recommendations for the following:
- Belden 8402 interconnect cables with Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA connectors
- Western Electric AIW 16ga speaker cables
I've never been one to spend a fortune on expensive cables, but I have friends who do, and I've heard the merits of high end cables like Kimber KCAG silver interconnects and 8TC speaker cables in my own system using these cables on loan from friends. Surprisingly, these reasonably priced cables (very easy to DIY) work really well in my system. With a TPA31xx amp, you would be surprised at the improvements.
I'll let you all explore this on your own. Unfortunately, the stock of Western Electric AIW 16ga wire is drying up as this product is not longer in production and audiophiles have been gobbling it up in the span of a few months. The best seller on eBay for the Western Electric wire is tajacobs. Not sure how much s/he has left.
Fortunately, Belden still makes the 8402 microphone cable and it is available by the foot from Best-Tronics (https://btpa.com/CA-0582.html (https://btpa.com/CA-0582.html)). They also sell the Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA connectors. If you don't want to roll your own, they will terminate a pair for you.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=127574)
Again, you will be pleasantly surprised with what your system will sound like. You'll discover how much music is really processed through these little Texas Instruments Class D amp ICs. Several friends and many on the Web have tried these cables with a wide range of equipment, and these are a bargain for what they do.
-
Rich, thanks for the info on the Belden 8402. I have been wanting to DIY some IC's. How did you wire them, did you ground the braid at both ends or just one?
-
Hi lacro,
There are two conductors, one black and one white, and the Tinned Copper braided shield. Use the white for "+" and both the shield and black conductor for "-" or ground. The shield and black conductors are both tied together at both ends. It contradicts conventional wisdom to have the shield tied to ground at both ends, but it works and I do not ever recall having read anyone who has followed this configuration complain about ground loops.
Take your time in making these as there are Cotton and Rayon fillers that need to be carefully trimmed away with small trimming scissors. I used a dental pick tool to carefully split the shield braid wires in half before twisting them, trimming them, and soldering them to the ground lug of the Switchcraft RCA connectors. Also remember to place the Switchcraft RCA bodies over the cables before soldering the connectors on. Otherwise, you'll have to undo your soldering and start again.
One friend replaced his Kimber Kable KCAG interconnects and another friend replaced his AudioQuest interconnects. If you like a hard, edgy and analytical sound, then these Belden cables are not a good choice. If you like a warm, full-bodied sound with midrange detail, extended bass response and a large soundstage, these are the stuff.
In reference to the Wiener TPA3118 amps, Gary Marsh, the designer, accepted a wealth of input from many technical participants on the diyAudio.com thread. He also tests the boards and tests the semi-assembled and fully assembled configurations. My stereo amp was fully assembled, but the two PBTL (i.e., mono) amp boards I recently purchased only have the TPA3118 ICs and micro controllers installed. I will assemble the rest of the SMD and thru-hole components. Comparing this to my various modified Sure TPA3116, Yuan Jing TPA3116, Sure TPA3110, SMSL TPA3118 amps, the Wiener amps are head and shoulders above these in sound quality and noise-free operation. The addition of the CineMag input transformers just takes this amp, and any other TPA311x amp for that matter, to another level of performance.
I brought this amp to a buddy's house and powered his pair of Altec Lansing Model 19 speakers, and we were amazed how the Wiener amp was able to hold up against my friend's Tube Lab 6B4G (similar to 2A3 triodes) push-pull amp using Lundahl interstage transformers and Hashimoto output transformers. Of course, the tube amp was better, but the gap wasn't as huge as one would expect.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=127611)
-
Where can I find more info on the Weiner amp?
-
Rhing have you ever connected the Gmarsh Wiener to speakers that require a little higher inputsignal to the ampboard ?
If you have those kind of speakers could you compare DC on speaker output Gmarsh Wiener to DC produced by Dugs mono boards or Sure3116 or any other tpa ampboard you have? I am curious what you'll see on your meter. I know what I see, I know I need to increase gainsetting Wiener to avoid higher inputlevels as a fix to keep DC output within what I would call hifi limits. Your Dug monoboards probably have the seperate avcc/pvcc setup too, so if your Dugs have equal DC on output as Wiener and Sure3116 has only a fraction of that amount like even YJblue, it might be avcc split connection causing the high dclevels playing music when inputsignal gets higher.
(outputlevel matched with sinewave inputsignal, audiobah left output has -8mV DC, gmarsh Wiener same setting left output -218mV DC)
-
Rhing, What is the model number of your input transformers? Thanks.
-
Where can I find more info on the Weiner amp?
If you read a matt_garman's posts a few posts up, you'll find a link to the diyAudio.com thread on the Wiener group buy; however, the group buy is now closed by the amp's designer.
Rhing have you ever connected the Gmarsh Wiener to speakers that require a little higher inputsignal to the ampboard ?
If you have those kind of speakers could you compare DC on speaker output Gmarsh Wiener to DC produced by Dugs mono boards or Sure3116 or any other tpa ampboard you have? I am curious what you'll see on your meter. I know what I see, I know I need to increase gainsetting Wiener to avoid higher inputlevels as a fix to keep DC output within what I would call hifi limits. Your Dug monoboards probably have the seperate avcc/pvcc setup too, so if your Dugs have equal DC on output as Wiener and Sure3116 has only a fraction of that amount like even YJblue, it might be avcc split connection causing the high dclevels playing music when inputsignal gets higher.
(outputlevel matched with sinewave inputsignal, audiobah left output has -8mV DC, gmarsh Wiener same setting left output -218mV DC)
I only have my Klipsch Forte II's and a pair of Fostex FX-120 bass reflex monitors. Both speaker systems are very efficient, and I use an Audio Research LS7 tube line stage, which also has gain, on top of that. Basically, I am not driving the Wiener TPA3118 amp very hard at all. The only other speakers I've used with the Wiener amp are another friend's pair of Klipsch Forte II's and another friend's pair of Altex Lansing Model 19's.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=127697)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=127696)
Rhing, What is the model number of your input transformers? Thanks.
CineMag CMLI-15/15B 15kohm:15kohm line level input transformers. Another comparable input transformer would be the Jensen JT-11P 10kohm:10kohm line level input transformers. The CineMags are usually made to order, while you can get the Jensen transformers from a number of retailers on the Web.
-
Belden 8402 interconnect cables with Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA connectors
Western Electric AIW 16ga speaker cables
Need to try this. Found some additional info on the WE cables here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134710.0
-
RHING !
Which transformers do you prefer ? I have used the Jensen Models but not the Cinemag.
Thanks
Dwight
-
RHING !
Which transformers do you prefer ? I have used the Jensen Models but not the Cinemag.
Thanks
Dwight
I don't have any preference. I just chose the CineMags, because I've never used them before and I wanted to check them out. I've used many Jensen direct boxes in pro audio applications, and they are great. I don't think you can go wrong with either make.
matt_garman lent me a pair of Edcor 15kohm:15kohm line level input transformers, and even though they did improve the overall sound quality of the TPA31xx amps I tried them with, the CineMags were more transparent. To my ears, they are worth the extra money.
-
Fostex is low efficient enough!! With Vifa's same efficiency the levels were found here.
-
Hi guys!
I've read this topic and I still have a couple of questions. I hope it will help others too. I'm sorry if they're too nooby :D
- I saw not the YJ blueblackboard but different one, cheaper and sold by many on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/50Wx2-Official-version-Finished-TPA3116D2-Class-T-Digital-Power-Amplifier-Board-/311131698963?hash=item4870e4f713), but the only difference I can notice is the red diode. Do you know something about it? Is it just fake?
- Is the new Sure tpa3116 (2x15W) amp ok with 4ohm speakers (and 12V)? The chip is ok, but I don't know how the board itself, I couldn't find the minimal load.
- I plan to buy one of those boards. Which one do you prefer (audio quality/noise level) unmodified? The new Sure TPA3110 or the YJ blackblueboard TPA3116D2?
-
How are folks connecting up the Astron power supply to TPA amps along with how are the amps grounded? Looking to purchase Astron SL-11A but not 100% sure on how to hook up and provide ground both to Wiener and DUG boards.
TIA
-
The Astron has a positive and negative terminal. The positive lead and negative lead from the board are connected to these terminals. The picture does not show this as I made the connections internally. The Astron is grounded via it's three prong wall plug.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103863)
-
The Astron has a positive and negative terminal. The positive lead and negative lead from the board are connected to these terminals. The picture does not show this as I made the connections internally. The Astron is grounded via it's three prong wall plug.
Is the ground from Astron attached to the amp module or there is no need to do that? If it is connected how do I go about connecting with just the external positive and negative connections.
-
The Astron is grounded. That's all one needs.
-
The Astron is grounded. That's all one needs.
Any idea of what size DC coaxial power connectors are needed to connect the Astron PSU to a Topping TP-31 ?
-
Is the ground from Astron attached to the amp module or there is no need to do that? If it is connected how do I go about connecting with just the external positive and negative connections.
There's no need. The amp runs on safe voltages of DC. It'll cook itself before it can use any real power from the Astron.
The Astron is good to be grounded because it has line voltages in it.
If anything adding ground to the amp could add noise. The only reason to do it is if you're using balanced inputs then the chassis should be connected to safety ground, but not the amplifier.
-
Any idea of what size DC coaxial power connectors are needed to connect the Astron PSU to a Topping TP-31 ?
You could use something like this female barrel connector.
Run wires from the Astron's terminals to it and plug into your Topping.
My Topping TP21 uses a male input jack measuring 5.5mm x 2.5mm.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-Male-Female-2-1x5-5mm-DC-Power-Plug-Jack-Adapter-Wire-Connector-for-CCTV-/111758608945?hash=item1a05550a31:g:gMUAAOSw3ydV48JR
-
This is my latest and favorite TPA3116. The dual chip model velcroed to a low profile Astron SL.
One thing I like about the Astrons is their connection terminals are on the back while the on/off switch is on the front.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=129103)
-
You could use something like this female barrel connector.
Run wires from the Astron's terminals to it and plug into your Topping.
My Topping TP21 uses a male input jack measuring 5.5mm x 2.5mm.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-Male-Female-2-1x5-5mm-DC-Power-Plug-Jack-Adapter-Wire-Connector-for-CCTV-/111758608945?hash=item1a05550a31:g:gMUAAOSw3ydV48JR
Can they handle 7A of current ?
-
I use the Astron SL-15R which is 15A.
-
After building a couple TPA3110 amps, had the opportunity for building a bigger brother TPA3116 amp.
Using a stock board from PE with no mods -- need to read through this thread to figure out what mods to consider.
Great info in this thread, thanks to the many ACers who have contributed.
Have it connected to a pair of GR X-LS speakers -- really liking it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137614)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137613)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137615)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137616)
-
Looks great! Well done.
-
cody69, did you use Duratex for the finish of your chassis? I finished my speakers in Duratex, here's a pic (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/construction-tips/257684-finishing-plywood-speaker-cabs-black-matte-utilitarian-finish-3.html#post3997758).
As for mods for that particular amp aboard: that's the "famous" Yuan-Jing blue/black board. Lots of discussion about modding that board over in the huge tpa3116 thread at diyaudio.com. But here's a post with the summary of the most crucial mods (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-785.html#post4420587). Copied here for convenience:
1. Main power rail caps switch to high quality name brand ones with low ESR. Favorite is Panasonic SEPF 330uF 25V
2. Bootstrap snubber 330pF and 10R before L inputs.
3. Main input caps switch to quality film 4.7uF
4. Film caps for bootstrap caps vs old ceramics
5. High current Coilcraft inductors
6. Input trafo for balanced inputs to amp
Items 1 through 4 are cheap and relatively easy. Not many people have done item 6, and good input transformers are expensive. (Though I'm working on a tpa3116 build right now with input transformers, though not using that board.)
-
cody69, did you use Duratex for the finish of your chassis? I finished my speakers in Duratex, here's a pic.
Matt, Yes, it is Duratex... I find it really easy to work with and gives a nice durable finish.
Really appreciate the short-cut to the TPA3116 mods -- will make these steps much more approachable!
And with the thread you turned me on to at diyAudio, plus this one... I've got plenty of reading material to go through when there's time.
BTW, those are great looking near field speakers!
-
I know I'm late to the party, and there are better boards available, but I wanted to tweak a little and learn more than I would by just plugging in a stock amp. However, after making the above changes and comparing it to a stock board I am really not hearing any differences. These are playing through Altec Lansing Model19s, which I think can be considered a revealing speaker. The amps sound ok, but as others have noted, can be shrill and shouty especially on female vocals. In addition to the above changes I have some of the Bourns inductors on the way, and was thinking about a snubber mod as well.
I have yet to put them on a power supply other than a couple smps, 12v 12amp xbox360 supply/19.5v 4a laptop/12v 3a wall wart w a bank of caps on the supply. Again no difference detected in sound. I'm thinking about an Astron but am having second thoughts now.
The only thing I have found to make an appreciable difference was using it with a tube Mcintosh preamp on loan from a friend, wow, nice! This makes me think maybe I'd be better off just getting a sainsmart 2 or 3 tube pre as PG and several others have used with glowing reviews.
Any recommends? Start over with a different 3116 board? Finish my mods and keep going with pre and Astron? I love to tinker but would like more of a payoff in sound quality for my efforts.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=139740)
-
A better powersupply will do wonders to the "shrill" sound. I'm very happy with the Astron.
Which board are you using?
All the different boards seems to have both strengths and weaknesses. I never liked my sure board, while I'm really enjoying the green audiobah as well as the cheap dual chip. If you want something really nice, also check out the Folsom 7297 chip amp. This is what I'm listening on nowadays. Really good dynamics and it has the "oumph" and bass I missed with the TPA boards.
-
I've got a TPA3116 right now. I'm experimenting with it a little bit. Thus far I can't seem to make it sound half as good as the 7297 Odal3 is talking about.
Don't get me wrong, for the price it's an exceptional little amp. I've got Blackgate input caps on it (N series). OSCON supply caps. Then there's a couple special inductors with 1ohm resistor before the PSU where I'm using Nichicon KG capacitors, 20kuf, following the best diodes I've ever used. Before the diodes is a CMC and caps. That's being fed by a dual bobbin transformer. And it's still just not good enough. It's good, but nothing I'd rank as special. My board could be better with improved inductors on output and bootstrap but... classD just doesn't do it for me. To me well done class AB like the 7297 is so much more like class A with better top end that I'm not so interested in classD.
I'm happy to entertain anyone on improving PSU quality into their TPA3116, if you plan to stick with it.
-
I think an appropriate outputfilter for Altec probably would be 220nF+33uH or even 220nF and 47uH. Now you have 680nF + 10uH. 4 of each. But you'll have to try. Setting gain to 20dB by removing one resistor is easy and will reduce noise among other benefits, especially with very efficient speakers. But maybe you did already? To make decoupling for tpa3116 work on your ampboard only option is using a tiny pcb drill and make a direct connection to gnd for the tiny smd's on pvcc pins. Now gnd return goes from these little ones back to the Oscons and then to gndplane, for the high frequencies involved, the ripple, this is a huge impedance, so effectively they do not work at all. To improve dynamic performance you can put the gvdd capacitor that now is directly behind white input socket towards tpa3116 chip on the two points both gainsetting resistors have on tpachip side.
Distance from your psu to the ampboard adds second harmonic distortion, some like that, but to hear the amp itself cut psu wires as short as possible.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kemet/R79GC3220Z340J/399-12625-ND/5731116 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/kemet/R79GC3220Z340J/399-12625-ND/5731116)
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/inductors-coils-chokes/fixed-inductors/196627?k=&pv66=2552&pv66=2266&FV=ffec4969%2C1c0002%2C4c000f%2C4c0011%2Cb84e84%2C1400008%2Cfff40003%2Cfff80013%2C4e80343%2C4e80585&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/inductors-coils-chokes/fixed-inductors/196627?k=&pv66=2552&pv66=2266&FV=ffec4969%2C1c0002%2C4c000f%2C4c0011%2Cb84e84%2C1400008%2Cfff40003%2Cfff80013%2C4e80343%2C4e80585&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25)
-
I've got a TPA3116 right now. I'm experimenting with it a little bit. Thus far I can't seem to make it sound half as good as the 7297 Odal3 is talking about.
Don't get me wrong, for the price it's an exceptional little amp. I've got Blackgate input caps on it (N series). OSCON supply caps. Then there's a couple special inductors with 1ohm resistor before the PSU where I'm using Nichicon KG capacitors, 20kuf, following the best diodes I've ever used. Before the diodes is a CMC and caps. That's being fed by a dual bobbin transformer. And it's still just not good enough. It's good, but nothing I'd rank as special. My board could be better with improved inductors on output and bootstrap but... classD just doesn't do it for me. To me well done class AB like the 7297 is so much more like class A with better top end that I'm not so interested in classD.
I'm happy to entertain anyone on improving PSU quality into their TPA3116, if you plan to stick with it.
Not sure what board you got and what you did with it but a good working tpa amp should sound pretty damn good. You should compare your amp with an equivalent modified like the wiener over at diyaudio. Otherwise ebay versions require lots of mods. It may not sound good out the packet like the tda given the tda has so few parts and therefore has a leg up in that regard. I think its a little dismissove to just lump it in with 'classd' especially as classd amps now come in such different flavors.
-
Group buy 3 now open for gmarsh's weiner stereo and mono tpa boards over at diyaudio until may.2. These boards have amazing features including switchable gain and switching frequencies and they sound terrific. These are custom made and top notch. Best tpa boards available.
-
Not sure what board you got and what you did with it but a good working tpa amp should sound pretty damn good. You should compare your amp with an equivalent modified like the wiener over at diyaudio. Otherwise ebay versions require lots of mods. It may not sound good out the packet like the tda given the tda has so few parts and therefore has a leg up in that regard. I think its a little dismissove to just lump it in with 'classd' especially as classd amps now come in such different flavors.
Anyone's welcome to send me one to try (and I'll return it). I'm not convinced enough to continue modding.
-
Anyone's welcome to send me one to try (and I'll return it). I'm not convinced enough to continue modding.
Jeremy AB man,lot's of good tdaxxxx's,there's also some very good LMxxxx's too...(forgot the're part number, long time ago, but if you google " high power lm op amps" you'll find them)
check these out Jeremy!
LM3875
LM3886
-
Thanks George,
I've actually tried the LM3875 numerous times. It's an ok amp.
As far as AB amps go the TDA7297 is the only stand alone one I've been into. The rest seem to need control. The Modulous 86 would be an example.
Sure I've got two mods left for my TPA3116 to get it up to date, but I'm not hearing anything that indicates it'll have what I want when it's done. It's just too far away. It's still a good amp, and fits some systems well because it can put out 50w. It mostly just sounds like classD to me. Bang for buck it's pretty darn good. However if you're trying to persuade me don't forget I'm a total snob :lol: .
-
I'm with Folsom on this one. Back when I started this thread experimenting with the TPA3110 boards (thanks wushuliu); a whole new world of great sound opened up. I have since followed with several versions of the TPA3110; TPA3116; TPA3118, and TDA8932. I did all the mods I could on the TPA boards which brought improvements for sure. But... something was always lacking. I don't doubt the gmarsh amps are the pinnacle of the DIY class D amps, and I may try a stereo version myself. I know Class D is the future with new chips being developed constantly. However, Class A, and AB amps now have my attention.
I recently purchased Folsom's TDA7297 bare board, and put it together. Wow! This is what I have been missing with the TPA's I won't even try to pin point the differences; it's just sounds so much better than anything else I have tried. I don't care to listen to anything else; this thing really sounds good! Many have tried the cheap Chinese versions of the TDA7297 that require extensive mods, but the Folsom board is a much better design :thumb: You owe it to yourself to give it a try.
-
Otherwise ebay versions require lots of mods. It may not sound good out the packet like the tda given the tda has so few parts and therefore has a leg up in that regard.
Actually, at least for the unmodded 7297 I got from ebay , it sounded really bad compared to unmodded TPA boards such as the green audiobah or the dualchip. Different presentation but kind of at the same level as an early version of the Sure tpa3110 to give an reference.
However, once modded per Folsom's instructions, or even better, when built from his bare board it really shines. I'm still a fan of the tpa sound and been tempted in the past to get one of the gmarch boards (and I may still get one in the future). Since I havent heard those board, I cant say if one is better than the other. I'm sure both sounds good. However, just like Lacro said, I like the Folsom board so much I kind of lost the urge to try anything else at least in the near term and have now been focusing on upgrading other equipment instead.
-
To be clear, I'm not interested in a this amp vs. that amp. People like the 7297, great.
-
Thanks George,
I've actually tried the LM3875 numerous times. It's an ok amp.
As far as AB amps go the TDA7297 is the only stand alone one I've been into. The rest seem to need control. The Modulous 86 would be an example.
Sure I've got two mods left for my TPA3116 to get it up to date, but I'm not hearing anything that indicates it'll have what I want when it's done. It's just too far away. It's still a good amp, and fits some systems well because it can put out 50w. It mostly just sounds like classD to me. Bang for buck it's pretty darn good. However if you're trying to persuade me don't forget I'm a total snob :lol: .
Hi Jeremy,tda7297 has fixed gain!,that's not good in MHO,some very good TDA's, check out tda2040 and tda2050,and of course the LM's ive mentioned.
-
I have had no time for my audio and finally getting back to it.
I bought the Sure3116 and before that SA-36Pro.
They were both good but I kept the Sure3116.
I use them without any modification since I cannot really do any soldering,etc.
So, now I want to buy a finished TPA3116 that is as good as Sure (they have no finished product).
I am wondering if anybody would suggest anything? Thanks.
-
I have had no time for my audio and finally getting back to it.
I bought the Sure3116 and before that SA-36Pro.
They were both good but I kept the Sure3116.
I use them without any modification since I cannot really do any soldering,etc.
So, now I want to buy a finished TPA3116 that is as good as Sure (they have no finished product).
I am wondering if anybody would suggest anything? Thanks.
The best would be a gmarsh board at diyaudio. Comes fully built but you would need to get an enclosure. You can also ask fleawatt to build one for you. He is a member here. Google fleawatt amps.
-
I'm listening to my TPA3110D2 amp made by Rhing. It has quality parts like Vampire RCAs and Insight 12v/5a power supply and Pangea AC cord. Powering my 90db/4ohm JM Reynaud Twin Signature speakers the sound is very good, better that my NAD 3020, Cyrus 2, T-amp, B&K ST-140 or ASL Wave 8s with those speakers. I've been using it with the built in volume control but plan to try it as a power amp with a Bottlehead Quickie as the preamp too. The sound quality/value ratio is pretty amazing.
I realize this was posted 2,5 years ago.... but did you ever get around to trying the above, meaning Quickie with TPA3110D2 with JMR speakers? I've the TPA3116 feeding a pair of JM Reynaud's Emeraude and I quite like how that sounds. Some kind souls pointed me to Bottlehead preamps when asking for tube preamp kit recommendations, and I may order a Quickie to try my hand at building one of their kits.
-
Yes, I did try the Quickie in front of the TPA3110D2 with the JMR speakers and liked it better than the TPA alone. My favorite inexpensive solid state amp lately has been the NSMT modified Lepai but there is still something about tube power amps or integrated amps I come back to with the JMRs or my Omega Super 3XRS (RS5) speakers.
-
Yes, I did try the Quickie in front of the TPA3110D2 with the JMR speakers and liked it better than the TPA alone. My favorite inexpensive solid state amp lately has been the NSMT modified Lepai but there is still something about tube power amps or integrated amps I come back to with the JMRs or my Omega Super 3XRS (RS5) speakers.
Thanks for that! The JMR speakers I've heard have indeed always sounded better paired with a good tube power amp. But I'm pleased with the TPA3116 amp and I'm looking forward to adding a pre stage to the signal path, I can't really justify the expense of a good tube amp for now. That Lepai also looks interesting, so many inexpensive digital amps to play around with...
-
Hi, Im new to the game and I've purchased a yj tpa3116d2.
I've taken everything off the board and replaced with what I think should be better components, including changing the output filter to suit my 8ohm full range speakers.
This is the result:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168731)
I'm using a YJ 6n3 single tube buffer (unity gain) for volume control - I'm thinking about replacing the capacitors on that too, just because I can ;)
(I have absolutely no complaints about the sound quality as is right now, I just like to tinker with stuff :))
Currently I'm running my tpa on a 19v laptop brick, but I've ordered a 24v power supply on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Converter-110v-220v-to-24V-MAX-9A-150W-Regulated-Transformer-LED-Power-Supply/222083846503?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Will this be okay, or is it better to stick with the laptop brick?
(I've swapped the power caps on the tpa3116 board with 35v caps)
-
Poultrygeist
In #476 you show that you used a fused link and an on/off switch. I am wondering what you used for both? I am building my blue amp now and am considering doing the same. My power supply is 24VDC 5 A. I am new at this and just want to get things correct. Thanks
-
Maybe this image of my TPA 3110 helps. I used a slo-blow fuse/holder and two pole on/off switch from Lowes. They're connected to male connector from Radio Shack.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173505)
-
Anyone here use this amp with battery power (a cordless tool battery).