[BrandonB]

I just wanted to give an update.  I have been reading everyone's post and I appreciate all the feedback.  I have looked at some used Schist Freya+ and also talked to the folks at BlackIce.  I like what I hear about both.  The nice thing about the freya is you can change out the tubes and there is lots of info online about upgrading.  I have never worked on electronics but it sounds real fun.  They are also reporting that the upgrades changes the sound significantly.  The BlackIce allows you to connect rear speakers for surround.  The sales person said if you have a good system you will not need a center channel.  Mike Lundy has talked this same thing in his set up.    I know that music and movies are two different beast and I want my music first but the surround would be great also.  BlackIce also has an upgrade program.  They have different levels of upgrades they can do and still be warrantied.    The BlackIce starts out at $2500 and I am sure the upgrades aren't cheap.  BlackIce recommends you to start with the base system and see if you would like upgrades.  When I looked at the upgrades some of them is something I feel would benefit from the start.  A negative with the BlackIce  is it doesn't seem like you can easily change out the tubes or tube roll.

[genjamon]

A couple thoughts regarding the Black Ice:

1) You have to remove the cover to access the tube, which involves unscrewing a few screws on the sides of the unit and a few more on the rear.  They use standard philips head screws on the rear, but a small hex screw heads on the sides for some reason.  If you don't have a set of allen wrenches around, it might be a hassle.  But the cover slides off quite easily.  The tube is held quite firmly in the tube socket, which is a great thing for a solid connection, but does make removing the tube a bit difficult.  I had to use enough force that the PCB was flexing to a significant degree, and I had to be a bit careful rocking the tube back and forth to get it unseated without damaging the PCB.  This could be a long-term concern if you like to roll tubes frequently, but will probably be fine if you just swap a few until you find the one you like best.

2) Don't discount the value of only having a single tube to swap in the Black Ice - high quality tubes are expensive, especially when you have to find matched pairs or buy them in quads.

3) The "surround sound" feature of the Black Ice is not equivalent to a home theater surround sound system.  It's just processing the stereo signal and making a surround-effect with the rear speakers.  It's not capable of reproducing the four independent channels from a home theater processor. 

4) I've been mighty impressed with the Black Ice sound thus far vs. my Don Sachs preamp, which I have heard others say is heads above the Freya preamp.  While I might be interested in exploring upgrades down the line for the sake of knowing how much better it could get, I currently feel no need to do so.  It's performing at a high level in stock form.  You might just agree after 45 days of trial period (vs the 15 Schiit gives you for the Freya).

[BrandonB]

Do you use vinyl or dac as a source, or both? It depends too if you need phono cart loading with your preamp.

It wil be a DAC.

[Badd99]

I also have a schitt freya+ with the upgraded vcap odam caps
This thing sings for sure. Try out 6f8g and 6c8g tubes with it. These rival even my 6n8s 1578 melz which are really the best 6sn7 equivalent there is IMHO. The low upfront cost of the preamp and all the modding that can be done with tube rolling makes it a slam dunk.

Of note schitt fixed some blown resistors I had on my unit for free from a bad tube AFTER I had modded to included the new vcaps (this is $400 of caps.) They did this even though they didn't have to because I had modified the unit. Huge kuddos.

[BrandonB]

I was looking at a Don Such's used Preamp.  I am impressed with the build quality and parts he puts in his equipment, but he doesn't put a HT bypass in his preamps.  Is there a work around for this?

[Early B.]

I was looking at a Don Such's used Preamp.  I am impressed with the build quality and parts he puts in his equipment, but he doesn't put a HT bypass in his preamps.  Is there a work around for this?

Yeah -- the workaround is: don't mix HT with 2-channel.   

[Elizabeth]

Taking time to find a good preamp..
I have bought used:
VAC Standard $1400
Audio Research SP 15 used $1400
Threshold FET TEN including separate FET TEN phono $900
Conrad Johnson Act 2 $1400
(the only one I remember exact price was the Threshold pair the rest within a few hundred up or down) The Audio Research actually pain me $800 as I sold a SP10 for so much more it paid for itself and bought the SP15 plus $800 to spare. (the SP 15 beat the SP 10 hands down for sound quality)

All the above are great, audiophile top preamps. So what I am writing is you can find real audiophile preamps out there at the same/ similar prices you are thinking of getting middle of the road preamps for.
If it was hard to do, I would not have several great deals.. I'm no great shakes at dealing.. Just looked around and bought stuff I found.

[VinceT]

Yeah -- the workaround is: don't mix HT with 2-channel.

Yes, I just move a few connections around as needed. Or I run different cheapo speakers cables for my AVR and the good ones from my pre-amp/amp to my speakers when listening to music.

[mlundy57]

I was looking at a Don Such's used Preamp.  I am impressed with the build quality and parts he puts in his equipment, but he doesn't put a HT bypass in his preamps.  Is there a work around for this?

Yes, there is. If you can find out what the unity gain setting (basically pass through, no gain, no cut) on the preamp volume control is, when you switch to the input connected to the HT receiver, set the volume control for the preamp at that level. For example, if the HT receiver is connected to input 3 on the preamp, the preamp's volume control ranges from 0 - 100 and the unity gain setting is 76, when you switch to input 3, set the preamp volume to 76 and leave it there. Use the HT receiver to control the volume.

The manufacturer of the preamp should be able to tell you what the unity gain setting is.

[WGH]

I use that method with my preamp. I always turn the volume to zero before switching inputs or turning the preamp off for the evening, a habit I developed 50 years ago when switching inputs on some preamps produced loud thumps.

If you forget to turn down the volume because you imbibed too much the night before then morning music will wake you up real fast.

[BrandonB]

I use that method with my preamp. I always turn the volume to zero before switching inputs or turning the preamp off for the evening, a habit I developed 50 years ago when switching inputs on some preamps produced loud thumps.

If you forget to turn down the volume because you imbibed too much the night before then morning music will wake you up real fast.

Now that's funny!

[BrandonB]

Taking time to find a good preamp..
I have bought used:
VAC Standard $1400
Audio Research SP 15 used $1400
Threshold FET TEN including separate FET TEN phono $900
Conrad Johnson Act 2 $1400
(the only one I remember exact price was the Threshold pair the rest within a few hundred up or down) The Audio Research actually pain me $800 as I sold a SP10 for so much more it paid for itself and bought the SP15 plus $800 to spare. (the SP 15 beat the SP 10 hands down for sound quality)



All the above are great, audiophile top preamps. So what I am writing is you can find real audiophile preamps out there at the same/ similar prices you are thinking of getting middle of the road preamps for.
If it was hard to do, I would not have several great deals.. I'm no great shakes at dealing.. Just looked around and bought stuff I found.

I'm new to the scene and not sure what is good equipment.  I also know that price doesn't equate to quality all the time.  I have heard of these brands but I don't know anything about them. 

[BrandonB]

If you're trying to keep the price down, I'd get the Freya + with the 6SN7 tubes.  You can find them used for a good price, like here:

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649928325-schiit-audio-freya-wmatched-quad-set-jj-tubes/

I was doing research and ran across the  300b Fire Bottle tube amp from Dennis Had and read great things about it.  He also has an upgraded version called the Hot Rod.  I seen some used online at a reasonable price but none for sale now.    I also seen a Aric audio 300b dual mono "Bespoke" being sold used that is custom.  Seems to be a good deal but curious if anyone has had an Aric audio amp or an Inspire Amp?  Dennis also makes a preamp but haven't seen much online about it.

[jtcf]

I have an Aric Audio Transcend amp.Used AA are few and far between. You can Google reviews or there's a few on AudioGon about the preamps. I've owned mine for around four years and am completely happy with it.

[350Industrial]

I was doing research and ran across the  300b Fire Bottle tube amp from Dennis Had and read great things about it.  He also has an upgraded version called the Hot Rod.  I seen some used online at a reasonable price but none for sale now.    I also seen a Aric audio 300b dual mono "Bespoke" being sold used that is custom.  Seems to be a good deal but curious if anyone has had an Aric audio amp or an Inspire Amp?  Dennis also makes a preamp but haven't seen much online about it.

I have a 300b Inspire Fire Bottle- haven't tried it with my recently finished Oticas yet though- coming soon.  It just wasn't powerful enough to really drive my old speakers @ 89dB efficiency.  Hoping it works better with the Oticas or I might put it up for sale (it's only just broken in...)  It is a beautiful amp.

[BrandonB]

I have a 300b Inspire Fire Bottle- haven't tried it with my recently finished Oticas yet though- coming soon.  It just wasn't powerful enough to really drive my old speakers @ 89dB efficiency.  Hoping it works better with the Oticas or I might put it up for sale (it's only just broken in...)  It is a beautiful amp.

What speakers have you used with it?  How efficient are they?  I was thinking about this amp but I don’t think it will work well with the NX-Stydio’s.  Maybe someone can chime in if they have an inspire amp with studio’s.

[unfairlane]

  BrandonB; 

   Do you know of anyone who has a really good sounding setup? My advice is to use this setup as a reference to help you pic a good sounding component. Ask if the owner is willing to try out the component you`re concidering to buy.
   This strategy has helped me a lot up through my earlier audiophile years and I still "use" old buddies setups now & then, bringing with me some good music & some selected single malt for a listening-session.

  Another way to do this could be to simply buy this $300,- MBL-6010 clone and use it as a reference. Simple old school preamp this. No dac here, not even a riaa but it is a dead silent remotecontrolled pre with balanced in/outs. Performance is on reference-level, nothing less.
 Even high-end audio can be fun


      https://www.ebay.com/itm/255122499405