Mundorf Copper Angelique

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Jaytor

Mundorf Copper Angelique
« on: 3 Jul 2022, 03:09 pm »
This is a relatively new offering by Mundorf for speaker wiring. It is an alloy of copper, silver and gold with PTFE insulation, available in 0.5mm, 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm solid core (approx 22, 18, 16, and 14.5 awg).

Has anyone tried this?

https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Cables/MConnect_CAW/

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #1 on: 13 Jul 2022, 05:00 pm »
Jaytor,

Thanks for the heads up on this Mundorf wire.  I'm thinking it could it be a nice combination of copper, silver, and gold metallurgy sonic attributes.  Mundorf had a long time to perfect it.

The 2mm wire is 12 gauge.

I just ordered some of the 1mm wire (18 gauge) via Parts Connexion.  I'll try it in double or triple runs in a new crossover I'm building.  I will also try in single and double runs as internal wiring from the Quintet 15 crossover to my Pure Audio Project Horn1 drivers. 




Jaytor

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jul 2022, 05:02 pm »
I look forward to hearing what you think.

Thanks,
Jay

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #3 on: 13 Jul 2022, 05:12 pm »
I'll report back.  :P

As far as the internal horn wiring, the Mundorf wire will have some stiff competition -- I'm currently using Verastarr copper foil. 

If the Horn1 wiring doesn't work out, the 18g Angelique wire should be excellent for internal AC or DC DIY preamp wiring.

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jul 2022, 05:32 pm »
Mundorf has been coming out with some excellent DIY components.  The new MResist Ultra resistors are superb.  They easily beat the Path Audio resistors in my application.  Ze'ev provides them in Pure Audio Project crossover upgrade packages.

https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Resistors/MResist_ultra/

Badd99

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jul 2022, 08:31 pm »
Mundorf has been coming out with some excellent DIY components.  The new MResist Ultra resistors are superb.  They easily beat the Path Audio resistors in my application.  Ze'ev provides them in Pure Audio Project crossover upgrade packages.

https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Resistors/MResist_ultra/

What is this application? I have fallen in love with path audio resistors on my nx otica...

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #6 on: 15 Jul 2022, 01:48 am »
The application is the crossover on my Pure Audio Project Quintet15 speakers.  The NX Oticas look like pretty cool speakers- I'd love to hear a pair.

It's a simple first order serial crossover with an inductor, a capacitor, and two resistors to pad down the horn. 

I also use Audiolense DSP so I can tweak the system's final tonal balance.

I liked the Path Audio resistors a lot when using them in the crossover with a VH Audio ODAM capacitor.  But when I moved to a Mundorf Supreme EVO Silver Gold Oil capacitor the MResist Ultra caps were superior. 

The Path Resistors sounded too laid back and a bit fuzzy in comparison.  The MResist Ultra resistors sounded clearer, and surprisingly to me, provided a wider tonal color palette.  Meaning a clarinet sounded more accurately like a clarinet, with more of the clarinetty tonal nuances.

As usual, it depends on the rest of the system as to whether the Mundorf resistors will be an improvement or not.  The MResist Ultras are gonna reveal too much treble energy for some situations.  The Path resistors may be a better fit.



Badd99

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #7 on: 15 Jul 2022, 03:58 am »
The application is the crossover on my Pure Audio Project Quintet15 speakers.  The NX Oticas look like pretty cool speakers- I'd love to hear a pair.

It's a simple first order serial crossover with an inductor, a capacitor, and two resistors to pad down the horn. 

I also use Audiolense DSP so I can tweak the system's final tonal balance.

I liked the Path Audio resistors a lot when using them in the crossover with a VH Audio ODAM capacitor.  But when I moved to a Mundorf Supreme EVO Silver Gold Oil capacitor the MResist Ultra caps were superior. 

The Path Resistors sounded too laid back and a bit fuzzy in comparison.  The MResist Ultra resistors sounded clearer, and surprisingly to me, provided a wider tonal color palette.  Meaning a clarinet sounded more accurately like a clarinet, with more of the clarinetty tonal nuances.

As usual, it depends on the rest of the system as to whether the Mundorf resistors will be an improvement or not.  The MResist Ultras are gonna reveal too much treble energy for some situations.  The Path resistors may be a better fit.

Interesting... I actually have my nx otica crossover full of vcap odam and path audio resistors. The sound is crystal clear and I wouldn't want any more treble clarity as it would be bright. I absolutely find vcap odam the best I have ever heard, including pure copper caps. I bypass my vcaps with dueland pure silver bypass caps though.

Did you try the mudorf resistors with the vcap? Curious your thoughts on vcap vs the mudorf caps too. For me, my crossover is rediculously real sounding with all foil inductors, vcap odam and dueland silver bypass and all 8tc wiring on the crossover.

Jaytor

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #8 on: 15 Jul 2022, 04:18 am »
I'm considering using the Angelique wire to connect all the drivers for my Line Force build. I already have Path resistors for my crossovers, but will consider using the MResist Supremes instead. They aren't that expensive.

I've used the ODAMs in a couple tube designs and liked the way they sound - very transparent.

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #9 on: 15 Jul 2022, 03:18 pm »
<<Did you try the Mundorf resistors with the vcap?>>

I just went back and looked at my listening notes for the comparison sessions.  I preferred the Path Audio resistors with the ODAM caps.  From the notes: "ODAM likes the slightly richer and darker Path resistors. MResist Ultra more neutral." 

Pure Audio Project provides a nice crossover circuit board with their speakers with screw terminals for the components -- it's easy to swap back and forth and compare crossover parts.

<<Curious your thoughts on Vcap vs the Mundorf caps too.>>

The Mundorf caps with the MResist Ultra resistors were a pretty big improvement over the ODAM/Path in my system for my taste.  I think it's going to depend on the overall system though which wins.  Brightness with the Mundorf components could definitely be an issue in some systems.  Also, if the system leans towards voluptuousness already, the Mundorf components may be too much of a good thing.

From my notes:

"SGO handles complex music better... instruments in their own spaces.  SGO richer more nuanced bass.  Supreme EVO SGO a more powerful sound overall than ODAM... Works well with the Mundorf Ultra resistors... snapper drum hits, clearer, etc.  Best aspect of SGO better tonal colors.  Also, wet bass of SGO better match for my new Holo May DAC vs drier ODAM bass.  But the ODAMS work well with wetter Yggdrasil DAC OG or LiM bass.  Better treble nuance with new resistors and caps.  Swapping out one of the Ultra resistors for the Path, system sounded weaker and whispy.  Interesting. Tonal colors lessened.  Not just the SGO caps with better tone colors, it's the resistors."

<<From Jaytor -- I've used the ODAMs in a couple tube designs and liked the way they sound - very transparent.>>

I thought they could be good in tube amps and preamps since they are transparent and neutral.  Good to hear that confirmation from you.


Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #10 on: 15 Jul 2022, 03:21 pm »
<<I'm considering using the Angelique wire to connect all the drivers for my Line Force build. >>

Line Force, WOW!

Have you thought about what gauge of wiring to use with the Line Force?  Given the drivers are so wide range, nailing the best gauge or combinations of gauge could be tricky but worth pursuing. 

Jaytor

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #11 on: 15 Jul 2022, 03:35 pm »
I was thinking 1mm for the Neo3s and 1.5mm for the Neo10s.  But my plan is to route the wiring for each set of drivers that are in series all the way back to the crossover. So, for example, there are four sets of four Neo3s in series, so the wires for the four sets will be wired in parallel back to the crossover.

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #12 on: 15 Jul 2022, 04:28 pm »
<<I was thinking 1mm for the Neo3s and 1.5mm for the Neo10s.  But my plan is to route the wiring for each set of drivers that are in series all the way back to the crossover.>>

That sounds like a good approach.

I wonder how 4 runs of the 0.5mm (24 awg) would sound compared to a single run of the 1mm (18 awg)?  Pricey, though.  If I like the Angelique wire on my horn, I'll think about playing around with multiple gauges for possibly more refined treble.

Cappy

Re: Mundorf Copper Angelique
« Reply #13 on: 14 Sep 2022, 01:36 am »
I'm reporting back on my experiences with the Mundorf Angelique wire. 

I tried the wire as internal wiring from my crossover to my horns.  I used a one meter twisted pair of 1mm wire.  I compared it to my Verastarr/Pure Audio Project copper foil 3/4" wide internal wiring in 1.5 meter length.

My Quintet15s are pretty flat (+- 1.5db) at the listening position from 500 hz to 15,000 hz.

I thought the resolution of the Angelique wire in my system was not so great, so it didn't work for me.  It sounds a bit mushy, with a reticent treble, curtailed image depth, and a blunted leading edge.  Some fine detail is gone, like the complex micro detail from the plucking of acoustic guitar strings. 

On the positive side, midrange tone was realistic and rich sounding.