[James Romeyn]

OMgoodness I would buy those ST/R SE in a heartbeat for $450/pr.  That is an insane deal, if factory assembled, and if both looked and sounded as per the image.  Get HR image of both speakers before you travel out there.     

If kits, TBD. 

[titaniumheads]

Congrats!

 Sorry messed that last post up

Here they are set up in my room. Still tweaking them. Bass and mids are great. Highs seem to be missing some "air" compa

red to my Magnepan 3.7s and Janszen Za 2.1s.
 NC400s running Mids and tweeter. Rowland 525s on bass.

[John Casler]

Here they are set up in my room. Still tweaking them. Bass and mids are great. Highs seem to be missing some "air" compared to my Magnepan 3.7s and Janszen Za 2.1s.
 NC400s running Mids and tweeter. Rowland 525s on bass.

That would be unusual (missing air) in the RM/x.

Remember the FST (free swinging tweeter) needs to be adjusted (angled) toward your listening position.

Missing or reticent highs might be a symptom of that angle being less than perfect.

I believe you will need an allen wrench to loosen the FST and make the adjustment and then tighten again.

[titaniumheads]

That would be unusual (missing air) in the RM/x.

Remember the FST (free swinging tweeter) needs to be adjusted (angled) toward your listening position.

Missing or reticent highs might be a symptom of that angle being less than perfect.

I believe you will need an allen wrench to loosen the FST and make the adjustment and then tighten again.

I have tried adjusting them and even turned the tweeter level up all the way. They just seem recessed in volume. You can place your ear directly against them with the speakers say 90db and barely hear them.

[John Casler]

I have tried adjusting them and even turned the tweeter level up all the way. They just seem recessed in volume. You can place your ear directly against them with the speakers say 90db and barely hear them.

Hmmmm.. .that is unusual and not normal.  One of the best qualities of VMPS is the HF and transparency over most other designs.

Take a flashlight and examine each tweeter to see it it is broken or torn.

[James Romeyn]

Someone posted about replacing failed FST on the RM-X, but I can not remember if he did or did not say the FST was a weak spot or ?

They are crossed 2nd order @ 8k Hz or possibly higher, presumably a normal application for that driver. 

I can not even remember what is the active woofer complement for the X.  Refresh my memory. 

[Stimpy]

They are crossed 2nd order @ 8k Hz or possibly higher, presumably a normal application for that driver.

With the ribbon tweeter using an 8K high pass, it's basically used as a super tweeter.  So, depending on one's age and hearing ability, low perceived output could be due to the owners hearing acuity, instead of a fault in the speakers.  Sorry, it happens to the best of us!     

Other than that, maybe hit the level pots with some Deoxit.  It couldn't hurt.

I can not even remember what is the active woofer complement for the X.  Refresh my memory.

The RM/X used a woven carbon fiber 10" front woofer, and I believe a woven 12" side woofer, tuned with the bottom mounted 12" passive radiator.  The front 10 was a midbass, and the 12 was a megawoofer.

http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RMX.htm

[James Romeyn]

AFAIK Brian never employed a 90dB+ woofer.  The MW is probably 88 dB max (talking actual numbers, which are used almost never).  The mid bass would barely if at all increase the overall sensitivity, and ditto the PR.  That makes actual overall sensitivity between 89-90 dB.   

So the 96 dB FST (if it really is 96, which I doubt) is padded down 6-7 dB to match the bass section.  Meaning the FST would appear to be highly under stressed in that application, and at extremely low risk of abuse. 

Stimpy gives good advice.  The FST is most definitely not crossed as a tweeter.  At that time Brian used no LP filter on the mids.  Unless Brian updated the xo with a LP filter on the mids (Roy might know about this), the FST pole is actually more like 11k Hz, higher than anything except harmonics and percussion instruments.  With some program there is little to no content through the FST. 

[rbbert]

I would wonder more about the midrange panels than the tweeter; as has been mentioned, the primary and often 1st harmonic of much of what we consider "high frequencies" are below 8 kHz

[James Romeyn]

The highest fundamental violin tone is C8, the highest piano key, which is 4186.00 Hz, or about one octave <8k Hz.  The FST on the original X crossed no lower than 8k; if it was update with a LP pole on the mids, possibly around 6k.

[John Casler]

The FST tweeter of the RM/x crossed at 6.9K.

Some (especially the new owner) might like this page (snap shot) of the RM/x back in the day.

CLICK HERE

[James Romeyn]

Titaniumheads,
IIRC the best access to the L-pads is to remove the side firing 12", which is more difficult that one might think without seeing them.  Upon request via PM I'll forward my phone. 

If there is any question about performance, the first thing I'd do is buy a can of Caig DeOxit Gold 5% or 10%, get to the L-pads internally, and spray the you know what out of the resistor winding while sweeping the knob back and forth like your life depends on it.  The L-pads are about 20 years old now.

[titaniumheads]

Titaniumheads,
IIRC the best access to the L-pads is to remove the side firing 12", which is more difficult that one might think without seeing them.  Upon request via PM I'll forward my phone. 

If there is any question about performance, the first thing I'd do is buy a can of Caig DeOxit Gold 5% or 10%, get to the L-pads internally, and spray the you know what out of the resistor winding while sweeping the knob back and forth like your life depends on it.  The L-pads are about 20 years old now.

Thanks so much for all the feedback. I tried two things that Roy suggested that really helped. Before, I had the Ncores on the mids and tweeter and the Rowland on the Bass. I had tried the Ncores on the bass prior and they were not as effective as the Rowland. Also one time the left Ncore shut down for a few seconds while playing a loud passage. Roy said he suspected a problem with my Ncore amps and had me jumper them and just use the Rowlands for both. He also had me move the selectors back and forth a bunch of times as he had never done that prior. That helped immensely. In my frustration Prior I ripped off the foam from the tweeters thinking that was the culprit even though Roy told me not to. Now I need to find where to get some of that. Mcmasters does not have it in their catalog. I will get deoxit as suggested and remove the sub for access. I will have to say that of all the money I have spent on audio these make me feel like I have climbed thru the Rabbit hole and found an exit.

[James Romeyn]

The FST tweeter of the RM/x crossed at 6.9K.

Some (especially the new owner) might like this page (snap shot) of the RM/x back in the day.

CLICK HERE

Are the mid panels LP crossed or not? 

Sum total tools required to confirm actual xo pole center: volt meter and tone generator, estimate <$75 total new.   

[Stimpy]

In my frustration Prior I ripped off the foam from the tweeters thinking that was the culprit even though Roy told me not to. Now I need to find where to get some of that.

Madisound sells a felt tweeter ring.  It has an adhesive side to stick to the tweeter face plate.  But, it's pre-cut for a typical dome tweeter.  Though, you could trim it to better fit around your RM/X ribbon.  Cheap enough to try.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/acoustic-damping/dampers-felt-defraction-ring-for-tweeters/

Oh yea, Audio Ideas Guide magazine used to market tweeters rings.  I think they're still available.  Maybe they'll work as well?

http://audio-ideas.com/wordpress/reviews/aig-tweaks.html

Good Luck.

[Stimpy]

OK James, what about these...???  Even cheaper that the last pair that I posted!   

VMPS Super Tower R  -  (Antioch, CA)  $400

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-vmps-super-tower-r-2016-03-08-speakers-94531-antioch-ca





"Super Tower R's. Wrapped in Oak, cabinets are in good condition. Works and sounds great. New 15 Inch woofers (seen) and New down firing 15 inch woofer inside cabinet. Thats 4 New 15 inch woofers. Incredible beautiful sounding bass- I Paid $350 for the woofer replacement alone. very detailed sound. I put in storage after Brian Cheney (RIP) tested and replaced drivers. Too big for me."

[Stimpy]

 VMPS Tower II speakers  -  (Highlands / W 28th Ave, CO)  $400

http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/5481010565.html




"I am moving soon and cannot take these with me. These are some of the best speakers you will ever hear. If you are reading this you are probably familiar with VMPS speakers. I will miss them but I need smaller speakers since I'm moving so much. Cabinets are in very very good shape.

Foam is relatively new and intact on all woofers. Downward firing passive radiators are mass loaded which you can adjust to suit your space if you'd like.

Great speaker set."

[Stimpy]

REPOST  $888

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-vmps-tower-2-special-edition-local-pick-2016-03-13-speakers-60601-chicago-il

VMPS Tower 2 Special Edition - Local Pick  -  (Chicago, IL)  $888

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-vmps-tower-2-special-edition-local-pick-2016-01-30-speakers-60601-chicago-il






"A nice pair traded in all original. The foam may need to be replaced but wanted to show an example of a really nice unit of this age. Very nice sound for low price."

[James Romeyn]

Those last posted ST/R are pretty old, among the first of the SE series for that model.  The indicator is a clone (Taiwan IIRC) of the original Japanese JVC planar super tweeter, and very close in performance.  After the JVC clone, in sequence, came the Foster planar super tweeter (all black), and after that I can not remember. 

If those ST function well, buy them.  For that price they are awesome, extremely close to 20 Hz bass w/power up the whazoo.  The caps might even be OK.  Replace the L pads.

 

[Stimpy]

Those last posted ST/R are pretty old, among the first of the SE series for that model.  The indicator is a clone (Taiwan IIRC) of the original Japanese JVC planar super tweeter, and very close in performance.  After the JVC clone, in sequence, came the Foster planar super tweeter (all black), and after that I can not remember. 

If those ST function well, buy them.  For that price they are awesome, extremely close to 20 Hz bass w/power up the whazoo.  The caps might even be OK.  Replace the L pads.

I love the history lessons James!  Please feel free to continue as much as desired!       Thanks!