[a.wayne]

I'm not defending Crown, but Help me , my english not good ..:

Frequency Response
(at 1 watt, 20 Hz to 20 kHz): +0 dB, –1 dB



As listed by Crown, is it you are calling for a bandwidth of beyond 20K,  then yes it's not a full bandwidth amp, as it is , a good match for your CD player ..

 

[Freo-1]

It's the at 1 watt that is no good...What is it at rated power?

[a.wayne]

They did not list and i did say unconfirmed specs,  for domestic use the 1 watt thd rated specs is very important for all amplifiers, its what makes low wattage tubes sound acceptable and in case it was missed, the Bryston has huge issues also, if operating below 4 ohm, so  its best when examining specs we are consistent in applying the specs vs applicable  use.

My point is , crown can lower the rated specs and play the spec game as done in the high end for eg. they  could say the amp is 150watts at 8 ohm and then show it doubles at every impedance halving , instead in the PA world big numbers sell so they use the highest acceptable number power wise to sell , this is what is important to the PA market for domestic they use the highest numbers with the lowest THD to sell , knowing this is whats important to the domestic market.

So XL2000 = 150/ 8  .05 thd  eg.
                     300 /4     "
                     600/2       "

They would use the 2 ohm spec at  full bandwidth and sell them as a 150watt mono bloc  for 12K per mono bloc pr and Bingo , instant credibility .... !!!!


PS: In the high end domestic  power is allowed to be  rated at 1%thd


Finally, fig.7 plots the percentage of THD+N against continuous output power with both channels driven into 8 and 4 ohms and one channel driven into 2 ohms. Despite its 600W, 27.8dBW specification, the 14B-SST delivered no less than 690W into 8 ohms (28.4dBW) at the 1% THD point we define as clipping. The clip point into 4 ohms was just over a kilowatt (27dBW), but the amplifier was running out of grunt into 2 ohms, with 720W available at clipping (22.6dBW).—John Atkinson


You will see that Bryston rated at 600 for the lower thd numbers , if for PA use only ,  most likely they would have gone with the higher number and of course the higher published thd...

[Freo-1]

The Crown is designed for use in a PA application.  Can one use it for home audio?  Yes.  Is it optimal?   I think not.




Check out these specs: (120 watt SS Amp)  I would argue that for most home applications, it's enough power.  Plus, it's flat from 20-20KHz.


Amplifier section Output Impedance (20 Hz - 20 kHz)< 0,01 ohm
RCA (single) input impedance 220 kohm
XLR (balanced) input impedance 110 kohm
Input sensitivity for rated output1 V
Max. peak current> 100 A
THD  (measured at 1 kHz -1 dB, 8 W)< 0,002 %
Noise (measured with both inputs shorted)400 Hz - 30 kHz : 90 µV  10 Hz - 30 kHz : 100 µV

Rated output power
8 ohms 2 x 120 W
4 ohms 2 x 200 W
2 ohms 2 x 350 W




]

[a.wayne]

Freo ,  when you tried the crown , did it sound like a PA amp...? producing those specs , is not what makes  the crown a PA amp,  best to compare the specs to the crown at the same power rating  of 120 watts, for eg at 120 watts the Bryston is approx .008% thd and approx .002% thd @8 watts, also  in your eg, they did not list the THD @2 OHM, or even at rated (8 watt rating ) output,  Crown is using their full power  2 ohm rating  of .5% thd , which is actually not bad .....


This is the manipulation manufacturers use when playing the numbers game, which has led to most saying numbers dont matter, this is why i will only compare bench test numbers , everything else is conjecture...

 

[Folsom]

I can't wait for everyone to reject it based on numbers, after hearing it and saying it's totally awesome and fulfills their needs....

[OzarkTom]

My Job amp is rated to 100k. The Crown amp is clearer and more detailed than the Job in all frequencies, especially the highs.

Any questions?

[Freo-1]

This is the manipulation manufacturers use when playing the numbers game, which has led to most saying numbers dont matter, this is why i will only compare bench test numbers , everything else is conjecture...

This I agree with.  What is lacking here is just that (enough numbers to make a judgement).  Oh well, listening tests are still the one of best judgement tools.

[rodge827]

11 people watching this topic right now. 

Do ACer's have jobs?   

 

[Freo-1]

11 people watching this topic right now. 

Do ACer's have jobs?   

 

Good question!!      

[Folsom]

My Job amp is rated to 100k. The Crown amp is clearer and more detailed than the Job in all frequencies, especially the highs.

Any questions?

It's not hard to have high rated transistor amplifiers... The transistors themselves can go into the mhz range often.

[a.wayne]

This I agree with.  What is lacking here is just that (enough numbers to make a judgement).  Oh well, listening tests are still the one of best judgement tools.

So no more spec arguments until we listen ..... 

[Tomy2Tone]

11 people watching this topic right now. 

Do ACer's have jobs?   

 

Not today! Woo hoo!

As a side note, the Crown is in the hands of FedEx on its way to Jackman.

As you were.
 

[a.wayne]

Popcorn ready, what channel ? PPV ? 

[Freo-1]

When it come over this way, I'll give it a good listen.  Hey, the Yamaha MX-D1 was MUCH better than I expected, so one never knows. 


I  think DaveC was close to spot on.  For many, it should as good as most.  If one owns a high end amp like Pass Labs, Electrocompaniet, etc, then it may not be better.  But, gotta listen to actually know. 

[spence]

I've got 3 different class D amps, so I thought I'd give my impressions. I've got the Crown XLS 1500, and I bought it to use for my band practice PA. It works ok for that. For the heck of it, I decided to try it in my living room with my Pass Labs pre, and SP Tech Timepiece 3.0 speakers. My speakers are currently driven by a pair of Channel Islands D200 amps which sound absolutely wonderful. The Crown? It just plain sucked - really bright and edgy. I then hooked up the Crown to a pair of Tannoy PBM 6.5 monitors in my studio and it sounded just fine. I've also got a Class D Audio SDS-470CS and it is probably 93% of what the D200 amps are. Just a hair shy in the lows, but I wouldn't notice it if I didn't have the D200's. I've got the SDS powering a pair of ATC SCM-20SL in my studio and it kicks butt. I highly recommend the Class D Audio amps. For the money, it's a no-brainer. As for the Crown, it's worth trying with your speakers. Lots of places ship it free and you can always send it back (on your dime). It's lightweight, so the return shipping cost is worth the price of the audition.

[Folsom]

I'm tempted to be on the tour, but I don't want to send it back out the way it came in...

Spences concerns are the ones I'd be trying to address, and then some, to improve.

I don't believe something that can best the Job 225 is inherently not going to be good. The Job has one hell of a rep, and I wouldn't expect it to fall short much of a Pass FirstWatt by any means.

[spence]

As a side note, the amps I had in the past were Pass X250.5, Mac MC402, Plinius, Sumo, and general stuff like Yamaha, Soundcraftsman, Hafler, Adcom etc. I'm sticking with what I've got.

[Tomy2Tone]

I'm tempted to be on the tour, but I don't want to send it back out the way it came in...

Wasn't sure how much interest this would generate but after it's been around for those who are genuinely interested in hearing it you are more than welcome to receive it and tinker all you want with it.

[Freo-1]

I've got 3 different class D amps, so I thought I'd give my impressions. I've got the Crown XLS 1500, and I bought it to use for my band practice PA. It works ok for that. For the heck of it, I decided to try it in my living room with my Pass Labs pre, and SP Tech Timepiece 3.0 speakers. My speakers are currently driven by a pair of Channel Islands D200 amps which sound absolutely wonderful. The Crown? It just plain sucked - really bright and edgy. I then hooked up the Crown to a pair of Tannoy PBM 6.5 monitors in my studio and it sounded just fine. I've also got a Class D Audio SDS-470CS and it is probably 93% of what the D200 amps are. Just a hair shy in the lows, but I wouldn't notice it if I didn't have the D200's. I've got the SDS powering a pair of ATC SCM-20SL in my studio and it kicks butt. I highly recommend the Class D Audio amps. For the money, it's a no-brainer. As for the Crown, it's worth trying with your speakers. Lots of places ship it free and you can always send it back (on your dime). It's lightweight, so the return shipping cost is worth the price of the audition.

Thanks for the input.  I've got the ATC SCM-19's, which are pretty much the same speaker as your 20's.  Believe it or not, the best sound I have gotten from the 19's are from a pair of DIY 1625 mono block amps, fed from a 6AH4 preamp.  ATC's love high powered tubes. 


They sound really good with the 500 watt Yamaha Class D as well. Still not quite so good as a 120 watt Electrocompaniet.