AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: 350Industrial on 10 Jan 2023, 02:24 pm
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First attempt at the DIY speaker world. Ordered the Oticas early November 2022 after a lot of research and a chat with Danny. I'll try to document my build process here over a few posts. Holler with questions, comments, or suggestions.
Big thanks to the GR team for answering all of my questions throughout the build process that took about two months, with the big push happening between Christmas and New Year's while I had some time off work. Also thanks to the many documented builds that came before mine- I learned a lot and took a bit from each of those.
Started with the crossover assembly as flat packs would be a few weeks out:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248606)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248605)
While I was painting the crossover boards, I traced them on a sheet of plywood and used that to layout all the components as well as used that as my work surface and soldering surface as to not mess up my finished mounting boards.
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Once the high, mid, and low frequency circuits were assembled I positioned them on my painted mounting boards, marked my holes, drilled them all out on my drill press, and mounted some feet to the under sides.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248607)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248608)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248609)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248610)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248611)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248612)
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Flat packs arrived just as I was finishing up the crossover assembly. The job that Jay does with packaging is better than I've ever seen something protected for shipment. He should be giving Amazon tips :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248614)
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I wanted to completely finish the insides of the speakers before assembly and glue up- so started with 2-3 coats of primer, sanding between coats. In total I used 5 quarts of Zinsser Cover Stain White primer. Sprayed with a Wagner Flexio 590, which barely had enough power to push the primer, but it worked. All glue joints were taped so I would have bare wood connections on the glue up.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248615)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248616)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248617)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248618)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248619)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248620)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248621)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248622)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248622)
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Next was apply two finish coats, sanding with a 320 sponge between. I used Beyer scuff resistant flat black from HD. Sprayed very well without thinning using the Wagner gun.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248623)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248624)
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Time for glue up. I do some wood-working as a hobby so already had plenty of clamps. Key was to use the Titebond long open time glue to make sure I had plenty of time to assemble.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248625)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248626)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248627)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248628)
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I then sanded smooth and put a light wood filler on the joints before taping off the inside of the cabinets to prepare for primer and paint.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248629)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248630)
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My dedicated listening room is in the basement with carpet/pad/concrete floors so spikes were in order. I used GR's spikes to lay out the press-fit threaded spike bases on the bottoms of the speaker bases. Used a 1/2" forstner bit to get a nice snug fit and a flat-bottom hole using my drill press.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248631)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248632)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248633)
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Two top coats complete- finally done painting, not my favorite part.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248635)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248636)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248637)
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After tinning all of the speaker terminals it was time to wire the drivers up. I did as much wiring on the bench as I could before placing the drivers into the front baffles- this was easier and made me feel better about having nice tight connections. Some connections still had to be made with the drivers installed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248638)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248639)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248640)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248641)
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I did leave the leads from the cross overs a bit long so I could remove the crossovers from the rear of the speakers if I have to troubleshoot later, or even to show visitors all of my hard work :icon_lol:
Next was time to mount the bases:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248642)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248643)
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And moving into my listening room, with a comparison to my old Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers with RAAL ribbon tweeters that I've exclusively had in my system for 8 years.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248644)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248645)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248646)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248647)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248648)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248649)
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Nice post and fantastic room. Are the Rel subs S512s? How do they blend with the NX Oticas?
Don P
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Nice post and fantastic room. Are the Rel subs S512s? How do they blend with the NX Oticas?
Don P
Thanks. They're the S812's. They blend very well. I use a free freq spectrum analyzer on my phone with a quality mic just to verify there are no big peaks or dips and I have it pretty flat down to 30-35hz when playing a sweep track. Key was to keep the REL's crossover setting pretty low. Took me a few frustrating hours seeing a big dip until I remembered to check the phase of the subs, flipping those 180 degrees put everything in balance.
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Wow, really well done. How do they sound vs the Ascends? I would love to build these one day but I have 0 woodworking skills. Always envious of those who are able to do this and come out with a great result. Enjoy!
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Wow, really well done. How do they sound vs the Ascends? I would love to build these one day but I have 0 woodworking skills. Always envious of those who are able to do this and come out with a great result. Enjoy!
To be fair, I still need to tweak placement a bit, but overall they're certainly better than the Ascends. Not in every category, but I think that really goes to how good those Ascends were.
Tweeter is better, vocals and highs are crisper (especially leading edges) more transparent. Bass output is nice and tight, just like the Ascends, but lacks impact the Ascends had (which wasn't tremendous to begin with.) The Rel subs add that way down low, but I am doing much of the break-in and setup work without the subs on.
Instruments have more presence, body to them. String instruments are sublime. The Otics are worth it just for this reason IMO.
I have them positioned pretty well now, they do disappear on tracks that don't lock images to the speaker itself. However, I was hoping for a more three dimensional sound stage. Stage width is the same as my previous speakers, just slightly wider than the speakers are apart. Depth is good, just like my old speakers. Imaging of individual instruments between the speakers is precise, but they all seem to be in relatively the same depth of plane behind the speakers, with some sounds right in a plane between the speakers if that's what the track calls for. I was hoping for a bit more in this area, but like I said I'm still tweaking placement. These seem like they want to be closer to the listening position. I'm currently exactly at an equilateral triangle of 8' distances. My room is 14' x 24'.
I have about 100 hours on them now with a mix of music and pink noise.
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Excellent write-up on your build. Thank you to those of us following behind you!
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Really, really diggin' the writeup!!! Great job!!!
You said bass output is nice and tight, but lacks impact. With that speaker and dual sub combo, you should not lack impact. The first thing you should do is crank up the subs' crossover point significantly, then slowly dial it back to the point where it isn't overwhelming. Don't worry about the speakers and subs playing the same frequencies. Also, you'll have to tweak the phase to get it dialed in properly. This process could take weeks or months, but when you get it right, you'll have more impact than you expected.
BTW -- what are the room dimensions? And tell us a bit about the audio components you're using. Is that a tube amp in the background?
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Really, really diggin' the writeup!!! Great job!!!
You said bass output is nice and tight, but lacks impact. With that speaker and dual sub combo, you should not lack impact. The first thing you should do is crank up the subs' crossover point significantly, then slowly dial it back to the point where it isn't overwhelming. Don't worry about the speakers and subs playing the same frequencies. Also, you'll have to tweak the phase to get it dialed in properly. This process could take weeks or months, but when you get it right, you'll have more impact than you expected.
BTW -- what are the room dimensions? And tell us a bit about the audio components you're using. Is that a tube amp in the background?
I get impact with ethe subs on- I was only speaking to bass impact from the Oticas on their own. I have been running them without the subs for break-in and to dial in placement.
My room is 14'x24'. Front baffles are roughly 8' from the front wall, 3' in from each side wall. This places the centers of the Oticas 8' apart. Have them toed in to about shoulder position. I'm sitting at about an 8'x8'x8' equilateral triangle.
Equipment:
Steamer- Aurender N150
DAC- Holo Audio May KTE
Integrated Amp- McIntosh MA352 (Tube pre-amp, solid state power amp 200 Watts/channel)
I do have a Dennis Hadd 300B SET tube amp I'm going to hook up and experiment with once I get everything dialed in.
Subs- REL S812 with Frank's high-level cables from Singal Hifi
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I have them positioned pretty well now, they do disappear on tracks that don't lock images to the speaker itself. However, I was hoping for a more three dimensional sound stage. Stage width is the same as my previous speakers, just slightly wider than the speakers are apart. Depth is good, just like my old speakers. Imaging of individual instruments between the speakers is precise, but they all seem to be in relatively the same depth of plane behind the speakers, with some sounds right in a plane between the speakers if that's what the track calls for. I was hoping for a bit more in this area, but like I said I'm still tweaking placement. These seem like they want to be closer to the listening position. I'm currently exactly at an equilateral triangle of 8' distances. My room is 14' x 24'.
If your really trying trying to improve the depth on these speaker i would replace the caps on the tweeter circuit with vcap odam and bypass with duelund silver. If money allows do the same with the mid circuit. I did the same with my nx-studio and got a deeper soundtage among other things.
Other than that you can put some real diffusers on the wall behind the speakers.
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Other than that you can put some real diffusers on the wall behind the speakers.
Something different than the diffusers I already have behind the speakers? Those are 6alpha bass traps/bi-directional diffusers from GIK that you can see on the wall now.
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I used to to have the GIK bass trap combination diffusers that you are using. I switched to the ATS diffusers with a much better result.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239359)
Don P
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Something different than the diffusers I already have behind the speakers? Those are 6alpha bass traps/bi-directional diffusers from GIK that you can see on the wall now.
Those gik are nowhere near effective as quadratic type diffusers at the task of diffusing sound.
The only issue is that they are expensive to buy and almost as expensive to ship.
I went diy and was able to build around 150 square feet surface area of diffusors.
Cost about a thousand dollars and took 20 hours of work.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-by-step.269366/
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Those gik are nowhere near effective as quadratic type diffusers at the task of diffusing sound.
The only issue is that they are expensive to buy and almost as expensive to ship.
I went diy and was able to build around 150 square feet surface area of diffusors.
Cost about a thousand dollars and took 20 hours of work.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/making-easy-diy-depot-sound-diffuser-panels-step-by-step.269366/
Read through a few pages of that thread- lots of great info. I'm a DIY'er, so would certainly consider going this way.
I'm a bit bummed I spent so much on the GIK panels for the front wall now that I hear they aren't nearly as effective. I would have 'done it right the first time', something I strive for in general. I guess it's all part of the journey in this hobby.
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I used to to have the GIK bass trap combination diffusers that you are using. I switched to the ATS diffusers with a much better result.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239359)
Don P
Thanks for the photo- how did it change the soundstage from when you had the 6A GIK panels?
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Better depth and a more open sound. I felt the GIK panels were muffling the sound a bit.
https://www.atsacoustics.com
I still use GIK corner bass trap which I find effective. It was easy to sell my GIK panels. I listed them here and they sold the first day.
Don P
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AC member Jaytor is using the ATS diffusers with NX Oticas. Of course now he just built a pair of Line Force. There is a GR Research thread on the build.
Don P
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Next was apply two finish coats, sanding with a 320 sponge between. I used Beyer scuff resistant flat black from HD. Sprayed very well without thinning using the Wagner gun.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248623)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248624)
These look great. I love the color and I bet the look even better in person. I would like ask a few questions. I have not ever done any woodwork but have access to a wood shop. Why did you paint the inside before putting them together? Which joints did you put filler in? Would you do anything different? Did you somehow make the bottom of the speaker come apart easily to pull out the crossover?
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These look great. I love the color and I bet the look even better in person. I would like ask a few questions. I have not ever done any woodwork but have access to a wood shop. Why did you paint the inside before putting them together? Which joints did you put filler in? Would you do anything different? Did you somehow make the bottom of the speaker come apart easily to pull out the crossover?
No problem- all good questions.
I painted the insides first because I didn't think I could get my spray gun in the tight corners of the rear of the speaker, and if I did, the paint would be uneven. Paint spray guns really need to be 'swept' across a surface maintaining the exact same distance from the work piece and a very uniform speed. I was worried I couldn't do that if I waited to paint the inside of the speakers until they were assembled. Now that I'm done, I would have probably gotten away with it since most of the inside is covered with no-rez anyway.
After the first primer coat following assembly, I sanded that coat then added a very light 'skim coat' of filler where the front baffle edges meet the edge of each wing- this created a seam vertically from the bottom to the top of the speaker on each side. Also, where the inner braces meet the rear edges of each wing. Very minimal amount is needed because the flat packs fit so nicely together. You could get away with not doing this- but if you have so much time into these already, why not spend an extra 10 mins per speaker was my thinking.
I left the bottom of the speaker unglued until the very last step- after the drivers and crossovers were wired up and connected. Since I had 'dry fit' the base during glue up (to make sure everything was in alignment during glue-up) they fit perfectly at the end of the project.
Things I'd do differently:
1- Order more wire from the start (I actually placed TWO addition orders for the solid core wire to wire the highs and mids)
2- Order more solder- I used three times as much as supplied (I probably over soldered, oh well)
3- Take some scrap MDF, glue a few pieces together, prime, prime, finish, finish just like you're planning to do to your speakers. You need to develop your process first before you get your flat packs (I actually did this, but I wanted to share how valuable it was for me)
4- If using the same primer as I used- don't thin it. I thinned it the first time (my spray gun was struggling) with paint thinner and it worked, but took forever to dry. THEN I read the label and found out this primer cannot be thinned :duh:
Other than those few things, not much I'd change. Keep in mind this is not a few-beer project. Have patience, take your time, may require several cases of beer over many weeks.
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I use and like the Mr. T diffusers in the center behind the speakers and at the first reflection points. https://piaudiogroup.com/ These are not expensive.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248761)
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Yeah, I think real diffusors work much better behind open baffle speakers than the GIK absorbers with scatter/diffusion plates I was previously using. My experience is the same as Don's. The "abfusors" sucked a lot of the life out of the music compared to my ATS quadratic-residue diffusors.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248764)
The ATS panels come unfinished (bare wood). I haven't done anything to finish them yet, but I'm thinking of wrapping them with Guilford of Maine fabric.
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Thanks for putting together such a great post on your speaker build. The pictures are very well done. This will be a big help to others in the future. Do you have a few more photos of the back of the finished speaker which show more details of how the No-Rez is installed?
I like the techniques you used to route the copper foil inductor connections to the crossover circuit. It looks very neat and protective.
Congratulations!
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Yeah, I think real diffusors work much better behind open baffle speakers than the GIK absorbers with scatter/diffusion plates I was previously using. My experience is the same as Don's. The "abfusors" sucked a lot of the life out of the music compared to my ATS quadratic-residue diffusors.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248764)
The ATS panels come unfinished (bare wood). I haven't done anything to finish them yet, but I'm thinking of wrapping them with Guilford of Maine fabric.
Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like several folks have come to the same conclusion with the GIK 6alphas compared to real diffusers.
It looks like you have four ATS panels directly behind each speaker?
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Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like several folks have come to the same conclusion with the GIK 6alphas compared to real diffusers.
It looks like you have four ATS panels directly behind each speaker?
Yes, that's correct. It would probably be better to have diffusers centered between the speakers, but I didn't want to block my french doors.
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Thanks for putting together such a great post on your speaker build. The pictures are very well done. This will be a big help to others in the future. Do you have a few more photos of the back of the finished speaker which show more details of how the No-Rez is installed?
I like the techniques you used to route the copper foil inductor connections to the crossover circuit. It looks very neat and protective.
Congratulations!
Sure- here are some close-ups of the rears. I left about a 1/8-3/16" reveal from the edge of the wings to the No-Rez.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249771)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249772)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249773)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249774)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=249775)
Edit- Rotated the pics in gallery and re-attached but still not working...
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You have to upload your pics to your gallery, then edit said pics, usually rotate right and save the edit then attach.
Equisit builds, love that mat Black look, what did you use to cut the ro-rez?
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You have to upload your pics to your gallery, then edit said pics, usually rotate right and save the edit then attach.
Equisit builds, love that mat Black look, what did you use to cut the ro-rez?
Thanks. All of my other photos I just uploaded directly during the post composing but this last time they rotated. I'll try your method.
I used my table saw to cut the no-rez to nominal sizing- then found some round objects around this house that had the same radius as the tops of the wings, used that for tracing curved my line, then used a jigsaw with a fine blade to cut the round edges. For the non-parallel edge cuts I used my track saw. All of those three cutting methods cut very well with a nice smooth finish.
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Nice job on the build.
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You guys are all amazing!! I'm new to this hobby and trying to learn. Going to build nx-studios as a first try.
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You guys are all amazing!! I'm new to this hobby and trying to learn. Going to build nx-studios as a first try.
NX Studios are seriously good speakers!
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Kick ass . Enjoy
charles
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Quick update- I caved and purchased four ATS 'real' diffusers. They normally come four feet tall but I had them build them six feet tall for me (at only $10 more per diffuser which I thought was a killer deal, despite the high cost of the diffuser itself)- here is the end result.
In short, the sound really changed in my room:
* Yes, better sound stage layering
* Highs are significantly elevated, almost like someone turned up the EQ on the highs
* Music has much, much more 'atmospheric' quality to it- lots more air
I'm still listening and learning all the changes these made, and if I need to adjust my subs a bit.
Thanks for the advice on these. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251195)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251196)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251197)
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Looks great! Like a futuristic altar!
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Nice!
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Wow! The 6’ height is awesome! These would also work better for me as my current room won’t allow for stacked 4’ boxes.
Have you considered them for 1st reflection points as well? Also, what corner traps are you using?
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My first reflection points on my side walls are pure 4" thick absorption. They're 6-7' from my ears, so technically I could diffuse, but will stick with the absorption I have for now.
Corner traps are GIK's best performing corner bass traps- 18" square with the range limiter in them to reflect highs.
I'm still debating how to finish the new ATS diffusers- paint wall color or stain/seal. Either will be a PITA, with staining more of a PITA but I'm leaning that way as it will be worth it. Just need to decide soon and do it before the wood begins to darken.
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Room is looking nice!
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Wow! The 6’ height is awesome! These would also work better for me as my current room won’t allow for stacked 4’ boxes.
As 350Industrial noted, ATS will make custom length diffusors for a nominal upcharge. My ceilings are 7'9" so I had them make them just a bit short so I could stack them and go floor to ceiling.
I'm still debating how to finish the new ATS diffusers- paint wall color or stain/seal. Either will be a PITA, with staining more of a PITA but I'm leaning that way as it will be worth it. Just need to decide soon and do it before the wood begins to darken.
Looking good. I decided to wrap my diffusors with Guilford of Maine FR701 fabric. Way easier than painting or staining and they look great. I think the fabric tamed the high frequency reflections just a tiny amount which I (and my audiophile friends) found to be an improvement.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251200)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251201)
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Looking good. I decided to wrap my diffusors with Guilford of Maine FR701 fabric. Way easier than painting or staining and they look great. I think the fabric tamed the high frequency reflections just a tiny amount which I (and my audiophile friends) found to be an improvement.
That's a good idea- I do think the highs are just a bit too hot now, but again, it's such a significant and sudden change that I'm going to live with it for a while to really decide if I like it this way. Fabric would be a great way to tame it down a notch.... thanks for the idea.