[-Richard-]

Super-tweeter/Super-man/Super-nova/Super-ior/Super-natural/Super-lative/Super-ego/Super-abundant

Many of the words that begin with "super" are born from the etymologies not only of the large...
which is self-evident... but from the wish to create a category that touches the very limits
of what is possible within a certain given dimension ~

Advertising is very effective at using words like "super" to create a psychologically favorable
attitude toward some product or other... and as a society we have been "trained" to respond
to this kind of "conditioning" in a somewhat predictable fashion ~

So the idea of a "super" tweeter seems like a good thing... more than that... it suggests the
"ultimate" tweeter... who would not want to have the ultimate of something?

Me... I would not want the ultimate tweeter... because frankly I don't like the artificial "extra"
signal strength that a "super" tweeter generates... I listen to live un-amplified music... and there
is no "super" high frequency being heard there... only real instruments creating real music, in a
real space ~

What I hear in my home audio system comes dangerously close to that experience... I have no
wish for "the more" simply because there is some technology that can create it... it is the
"illusion" of the real that I crave ~

So there are other words that begin with "super"... Super-ficial and Super-fluous for example ~

I have heard the Zu speakers on several occasions... and Louis Chochos has nothing to worry
about in my humble opinion ~

Warm Regards ~ Richard ~

[fredgarvin]

Supertweeter, of course, simply refers to a driver confined to the highest  frequency reproduction. Unless your "unamplified "music has no cymbals, violins, guitars, horns etc. then yes the super tweeter will be heard there. Real music in real space does use the upper octave, my friend. If your music consists of a thud with velvet wrapped hammers and low register bass strings, then maybe not. I wouldn't care for a system that cannot play the whole register and music restrained to the lower octaves must be painfully sonorous.

[rajacat]

I have the Omega Super 3 Bipoles and they do not seem to be lacking in high frequency response, in fact they reproduce cymbals extremely well. What is the point of having a speaker that reproduces higher frequencies than the human ear can hear? The super tweeter is perhaps just another gizmo to lure potential customers but in reality has no pragmatic purpose.

Raja

[totoro]

I have the Omega Super 3 Bipoles and they do not seem to be lacking in high frequency response, in fact they reproduce cymbals extremely well. What is the point of having a speaker that reproduces higher frequencies than the human ear can hear? The super tweeter is perhaps just another gizmo to lure potential customers but in reality has no pragmatic purpose.

Raja

Generally, when a supertweeter is used with a full range driver, it is crossed over very high, but well within the range of human hearing, which is somewhere around 20k. The idea is that large drivers have problems with "beaminess" or directionality at high levels, amongst other problems, and, in many cases, can't reproduce them at all above, say 12k.

Hence, the popularity, for instance, of supertweeters sitting on top of fostex horn speakers.

[onemug]

Richard- that was a super post.

In general, sometimes it's not the speaker but the room that might benefit from a supertweeter. The room I have my home theater in has 8' tall drapes with blackout shade behind them, thick carpet and a lot of soft furniture. Can you say dead? I think it would be easier to buy a st at Radio Shack than to ask Louis to build a model.

[-Richard-]

At some point in my audio listening experience I began to hear the separate divisions that multi-driver
speakers generated as they crossed over each other in an attempt to blend their distinct frequencies
into a cohesive musical picture... or perhaps it was the cognitive function of the brain unmasking
the subtle faults in the "illusion" of each driver attempting to blend together that was somehow being
triggered... or perhaps it was a simple response to listening very carefully that began to reveal that
something was not quite right... something artificial that was being introduced into the fabric of the
illusion of a cohesive "picture" of the music that the brain could no longer "suspend" or "justify" ~

That is one issue ~

The other issue that significantly impacts on my audio listening experience is whether or not
I think I detect some frequency range that appears to be spotlighted... I am not ordinarily
looking for some kind of frequency anomaly... I am speaking of something that would impose
itself on my listening experience because of its unmistakable emphasis... not because I have a
predilection to being overly analytical ~

Let us put aside the problems that are implicit when individual drivers attempt to blend together
to create a seamless musical picture... at least for the moment ~

And let us look at what happens when a listener detects an exaggeration in the upper frequencies...
Obviously, the information that is presented there would be given emphasis ~

When Deb and I began our listening journey to reacquaint ourselves with what was available in
the world of audio several years ago (Deb is such a good sport, god bless her) what we found
across the board... especially with American Speakers... was that the upper frequencies were
generally tilted up... the effect of this was a presentation that appeared on first hearing to
have extraordinary detail... and the "wow" factor at hearing things like cymbals shimmering
over the pulse of the music ~

It was only when we began to extend our auditions that it became clear that tilting-up the higher
frequencies resulted in a fatiguing and artificial musical experience... for most listeners however,
the tilted-up presentation did the trick... they purchased the speakers feeling that they had found
what they were looking for... a "hi-fidelity" experience ~

Deb and I have heard a great many speakers since then... and a great many amps and other
audio gear in all sorts of combinations ~

At some point we began to crave a "simple" musical presentation that made no demands
what-so-ever on our nerves and our cognitive retrieval functions... our sense of needing to
suspend the "artificial" in order for the brain to reinterpret what it was hearing as the real ~

That is when I began to explore single driver speakers and low watt SET amplifiers... and that
is how I eventually hooked up with Louis Chochos ~

It sounds, onemug, as if your room does need some kind of compensation for all of the
highly absorbing material affecting the sound... and that is a valid consideration ~

If more audio enthusiasts turn to home theater options like you are using, then they will have to
forgo the single driver option ~

rajacat is hearing what I am hearing... a very satisfying upper frequency musical life that rivals
any "super" tweeter presentation while maintaining a wonderful coherency ~

As a society, we are obsessed with the "more"... Dan Mason, in his wisdom, likes to quote
Mies van der Rohe's dictum that "less=more"... that is the effective aesthetic that makes single-driver
speaker solutions so elegant... over time... and after a long search for the magic that is possible in
audio... some very sensitive listeners finally discover the magic of single-driver speakers
and SET tube amplifiers... and their search ends... and their musical life takes on an
entirely different dimension... the dimension of the "real"... or at least what feels like a living
musical event unfolding in ones living spaces... and ones mind ~

Warm Regards ~ Richard ~

[charlesd]

My Omega speakers don't have any lack of high frequency detail or accuracy. It seems that most folks with Omega speakers don't see the need for a second, high frequency driver ("super" or otherwise). The rationale for having one seems to be a) marketing ("Brand X" has one, and they are getting good press), b) prejudice (It's a "super" tweeter, so it must be an improvement), or c) distorting speaker performance to suit a bad acoustic space (rather than improving the room acoustics, which will certainly benefit overall performance more than a "super" tweeter).

None of these rationales has anything to do with actually improving the sound of the loudspeaker.

[miklorsmith]

I don't think anybody's suggesting Louis should abandon his current line of speakers in favor of one model featuring a supertweeter.  Rather, the idea is that implementing a hi-pass tweeter in ONE model could add to the potential customer base.

Who knows why, but treble-tipped speakers are popular.  If enough people think that sound is right, the marketplace will go that direction.  Commercially available speakers are that way because people buy them.

I can certainly understand if Louis chooses not to produce such a speaker for his own reasons.  And, maybe most customers will be perfectly happy without a supertweeter.  But, there are lots of sparkleheads out there that might consider Omega if only they had just a little extra sizzle on top.

[JLM]

Perhaps the popularity of super tweeters can be correlated to the aging male audiophile population and demographically associated hearing loss at higher frequencies.

Deep bass response has lost popularity due to cost, space, and lease breaking; so going the other way makes some sense (to get your audiophile rocks off) and follows what the Europeans have been doing for decades before us Yanks.

Frankly I don't know if Louis could undercut Zu as his workmanship is better and his overhead isn't cheap.

[rajacat]

Perhaps the posters who are suggesting that the Omegas could be improved with the addition of a super tweeter have never seriously auditioned a properly set up and powered pair of Omegas.

Raja

[bbchem]

  aa

GENTLEMEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR HEATED BUT THOUGHT PROVOKING REPLYS, DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD CAUSE SUCH A STIR BOTH WAYS, IT SHOWS THAT US AUDIOPHILES ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE HOBBY.   I HAVE PURCHASED A PAIR OF SUPER TWEETERS FOR MY SUPER 3R ALNICO'S (WHICH I LOVE THE MOST OF MY 30 PREVIOUS MAJORBRAND PAIRS OF LOUDSPEAKERS FOR THEIR NATURAL UNCOLORED UN ADDED OR SUBTRACTED SOUND), BUT NONE THE LESS, MY INTENSE CURIOUSITY WARRANTED THE ST PURCHASE, AND I WILL TELL YOU IF IT HELPS OR HURTS WHEN I GET THEM. IN THE MEAN TIME, I WAS LOOKING FOR A FLOOR STANDING FULL RANGE SPEAKER, AND THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A SUPER SUPERTWEETER LIKE THE ZU'S AND SEVERAL OTHER MANUFACTURERS OFFER CURRENTLY. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING >> " PERCEPTION IS REALITY" WHICH MEANS THAT IF YOU BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE BETTER THATS ALL THAT MATTERS!  LIKE THE SONG >> "ANTICIPATION"

[-Richard-]

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication": Leonardo DaVinci

Warm Regards ~ Richard ~

[Louis O]

Wow,

This is very interesting and I do have to say this. I know in my heart that bbchem was looking for exactly what he posted. I have added a supertweeter before on G8s and other companies have as well. There is nothing wrong with it. I do think it's a lot more fun to add it afterwards and there are a lot of great ones out there. I have spent a great deal of time on the Hemp drivers and the wizzers to be able to get quite a lot of high freq. energy. I try my best to keep them one way.

That said I have to say that I consider Sean and Adam at ZU to be friends of mine and I look forward to seeing them at the RMAF. I would never ever try to copy there’s or anyone else’s design ever.

Thanks again,
Louis

[Daygloworange]

bbchem,

Everyone has their own take on things. Personally, my philosophy is a slightly different take than the one you describe, mine is " there is reality, then your perception of it". It takes into account the individual.

As far as tweeters are concerned, I also agree that too many speakers today seem to have an exaggerated top end. It is something that can be seductive, but ultimately, wears on our ears, hence the term fatigue. How could something detailed be fatiguing? Wouldn't it be the other way around?  

The same holds true for low frequency as well, a lot of speakers are not quite right down low either.

Not all of it is speakers, a lot of popular music, contains a lot of emphasis that shouldn't be there, both high and low.

Richard, rajacat, I'm in the same camp with you as well on this one. Neutral might not have the same sex appeal, but I much prefer neutral.

Cheers

[Jason1]

How is it wrong for another company (besides Zu) to sell a large extended range driver with a supertweeter?

It's not like anyone wants Louis to mimic the druid...