Don't you think Louis should try and build a Zu Druid Match??? LOwer cost

bbchem · « **on:** 13 Oct 2006, 12:10 pm »

Hi, I already emailed Louis this strange request, but since the latest industry Kudos is going to Zu a small single point source/supertweeter company I thought that maybe Louis should consider a floor stander with a super tweeter to compete with the Zu bunch??

JUst a crazy thought

ZLS · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 12:29 pm »

I would suggest you listen to the highs of the Visaton B200 Driver that Louis uses. You do not guild a lily, you do not put Angeli Joulie in a Burkha, and you do not need to add a tweeter to Louis's Omega speakers.

bbchem · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 01:12 pm »

aa

Which model Omega??

Have you heard the Zu??

ZLS · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 06:21 pm »

The model Omega is the Revolutions, a floor standing aperiodic loaded single driver speaker using the Visaton B200 Driver.
I have heard the Zu Druid at a Chicago Audio Society meeting. I found the people at Zu to be committed, knowledgeable, and passionate about their speakers. I also found the Zu Druid to be a completely different animal from the Omega's.
Single driver speakers have a magic about them. If you fall under their spell,then there is nothing that comes close to conveying the emotion of the music. If single driver speaker's do not stir your emotions then all you will hear is their limitations, of which of course exist.
I believe the joy and the fun of this hobby is that there are many ways to reach sonic bliss. The fact that I prefer one way over another, in no way diminishes my respect and admiration for those manufactures and consumers who choose another.

bbchem · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 08:07 pm »

I own a pair of Super3R Alnicos and think Louis is a genius, All I was asking is, since so much coverage and awards are going to the Zus, that maybe there can be a comparable Omega which you have described as the Revolution. I am looking into maybe buying a floor standing model ,and would consider these.

Thanks, Bill

TheSloth · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Oct 2006, 08:48 pm »

Quote from: bbchem on 13 Oct 2006, 08:07 pm

I own a pair of Super3R Alnicos and think Louis is a genius, All I was asking is, since so much coverage and awards are going to the Zus, that maybe there can be a comparable Omega which you have described as the Revolution. I am looking into maybe buying a floor standing model ,and would consider these.

Thanks, Bill

Your top of the line floorstanding options are the Max Hemp and Revolution. The Revolution uses the B200 driver in the aperiodic cabinet, and the Max Hemp uses the 8" Hemp Cone in a similar sized but rear ported bass reflex cabinet. I suspect both are quite special.

onemug · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 02:15 pm »

Quote from: bbchem on 13 Oct 2006, 01:12 pm

aa

Which model Omega??

Have you heard the Zu??

I had the Zu Tones (they have the supertweeter) in my house for a day. I preferred my A8's. Have no trouble hearing "brushes on cymbals" and up on the Omegas. Thought the A8's sounded more natural.

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 02:55 pm »

Isn't this rather insulting to Zu? (To ask another vendor to undercut them, as if they're overpriced?) Why not ask Chinese prisoners or hobbists that do it for beer money to do it instead (if you really want a low price)? This thread puts Louis in a very awkward position, it should be deleted (by the "head moderator, whoever that is).

Until Zu sells raw drivers, its a mute point anyway. If you want their stuff, be willing to pay for the R & D, awards, etc. If the price is too high for you, look elsewhere.

And besides, other vendors offer two-way designs, even high efficiency stuff, if that is what you want.

As said above, that's not Louis' thing.

BTW, I own the "grown up" version of your drivers, and don't know if I'd trade them for any of the high efficiency offerings out there. (Your's need a sub, mine don't for nearly all music.) I went a slightly different route because, even though I greatly respect Louis, his cabinetry, and what he can do with various single drivers; I wanted full range and transmission line design.

pacifico · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 03:01 pm »

JlM,

If you notice, this post has not dignified a response from the man himself. That's smart on his part. I agree with you.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 03:52 pm »

Ditto

Daygloworange · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 04:01 pm »

bbchem,

We are talking about a small company of very dedicated entusiasts over at Zu. I came across their website a while ago. These guys have probably put everything on the line here, and probably logged a lot of hours for minimal financial reward to launch a new company. To suggest what you are suggesting is not healthy to say the least. If someone where to come along and aid in their demise in an unfair way, it would set a precedent that other entrepeneurs in audio would use as a reminder to stay where it is financially safe and not venture out into the "dog eat dog" world of audio, and perhaps deny us all of the next " greatest thing since sliced bread".

Pause for thought about the big picture.

Cheers

srayle · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 05:14 pm »

Well, having owned the Druids, they are a fine speaker and the price of $2800 (what I paid at the time, I don't know if they've gone up) is quite fair and reasonable. For me, in this high end audio hobby, to pay more than $3,000 mfor a pair of speakers seems somehow excessive. The definitions, at $9,000/pair are something I would never consider, even on the used market. I loved how I could use the Druids with just about any source of amplification, and they were fun speakers to own. Since there are no audio stores where I live in Tucson, and the ones in Phoenix have been problematic and snooty when I have driven up there to listen tomaudio gear, I guess I have, or had, given over a lot of my audio evaluation to Srajen at 6 moons. Somehow I figured that his owning the premier audio review website and getting to listen to lots of great and expensive equipment, HE should know. Thus, before the Druids, I owned a pair of Gallo Reference 3's, which are an interesting speaker and, if you like their detailed sound, are great. The guy I sold mine to locally still loves them. But, I think that I have come to realize that Srajen's tastes in audio are not the same as mine. Plus, he gets to use a lot of superior amps, preamps, IC's, etc., that are way beyond my budget to evaluate speakers like the Druids, so he is hearing different sound than me.

Now, for the suggestion that Louis create a Druid 'clone' that would be lower in cost...well, if Louis can do it, and wants to sell them for less, THAT"S THE NATURE OF THE MARKETPLACE...yes, Shawn and Adam at Zu work hard have created something wonderful, but what about those 'gainclone' chip amps that basically rip-off audio designer Kenji Kamura at 47 Laboratories who created the original Gaincards? Apple's iPod currently still rules the roost, but there are a whole lotta aspirants who want to knock them off with a cheaper product...but some people will only be satisfied with an iPod, until they become passe, just because they are more desirable, or better sounding, or better quality...or not. That's the market. That's what drives innovation. To suggest that we all back down from allowing competition to these fine, hard working young guys at Zu is ludicrous...I'll bet that they are hard at work at Druid Mark V, or even a new product, because thats what you have to do to stay competative...So, Louis, show us what you can do in a floorstanding, highly sensitive single driver/super tweeter speaker, because I'd love to hear what you would create, and might even buy a pair.

Why did I sell my Druids? Well, over the time I owned them, without realizing it, I found myself constantly tweaking my system (tube preamps, tube rolling, IC's) to try and bring some warmth to to the sound. The Druids, in the Chinese 5 element scheme of things, are Metal, rather than Earth, and there is a subtle steely sound to them that I was unconsciously trying to change. After my journey to see Richard in Ojai, and experiencing the magic of Open Baffles, I decided to sell the Druids and pursue OB's for a fraction of the cost of the Druids. I also have heard Louis' Omega Grande 8's at Richards, and I think that Omega speakers belong in the 'Earth' category, with an organic wearm th that sounds wonderful to me. And thats why I would be very interested in what Louis would create in a Druid type speaker...and if it costs less, than so be it, Louis is a great guy and works very hard too...

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 06:52 pm »

No- Louis should continue to do his own thing and persue his own vision. Thats what makes this hobby special.

Dmason · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 07:14 pm »

Anyone whom has heard Louis' stuff knows they don't require tweeters. I tried the Super Hemps with the outstanding Visaton horntweeter, and it didn't add enough "air" for me to leave them there. The hemp's tweet range treble sparkles with such musical warmth, it makes me wonder why anyone builds tweeters.

bbchem · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 10:05 pm »

Gentlemen, I meant only good things for both, this is a compliment to both Louis and Zu, I was only asking Louis for a speaker that had a super tweeter ,because that it what the new marketing for these types is asking for. I have studied peoples feelings about Single point and the new evolutionary trend is to want something extra like in a new auto, car manufacturers always plan to add something extra in newer models to entice people to buy their product, its the law of nature to improve. How many commercials do you see on TV that say "new and improved?"?? Hundreds and thousands, I have polled several people who are looking for these type of speakers whether or not the perception of adding a SuperTweeter is real or not does not matter, these people will feel better with one on their speakers. I have used separate ones in the past and found they added a certain ambiance which can't be described. As far as the price it is always a good policy to try and build things as cost efficient as possible, undercutting is happening all the time in this field, as competition gets heated up. Several reasonably priced product have made stereophiles list that are many times lest costly than others.What your are saying is like saying there should only be one two loudspeaker or one three way loudspeaker or one planar loudspeaker, of course Louis could not duplicate the Zus, but if he wanted to he could build in a Super Tweeter if so inclined, there are hundreds of two and three way speakers and they are not the same. They also cost all different prices. There are also some other manufacturers that have added Super tweeter in kits or assembled

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 10:45 pm »

*didn't read the thread*

In answer to the thread title....no Louis should not....he has to have respect for intellectual property if he hopes others to respect his too.

totoro · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 01:44 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 14 Oct 2006, 10:45 pm

*didn't read the thread*

In answer to the thread title....no Louis should not....he has to have respect for intellectual property if he hopes others to respect his too.

I didn't read him as having meant that, but maybe I was being too generous. The idea of running a full-range driver without a crossover on it, with a supertweeter on top with a low pass filter, is _not_ something zu thought up. It's been around in the diy community for a while, and I who knows how long it's been around, but longer than zu, anyway (this isn't to knock zu, by any means). There's no reason someone else can't build one.

I know of at least one speaker maker who likes to make fostex f200a speakers with a ribbon tweeter. Haven't gotten a chance to hear one yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

So suggesting that Louis build a larger speaker with an 8" or 10" full range driver and a supertweeter isn't necessarily asking him to rip anyone off.

eico1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 02:11 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 14 Oct 2006, 10:45 pm

*didn't read the thread*

In answer to the thread title....no Louis should not....he has to have respect for intellectual property if he hopes others to respect his too.

I'd think intellectual property infers to legal rights. Building a speaker like another probably has no legal restrictions, so let it rip and that is how the audio world evolves

steve

bbchem · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 02:22 am »

Thanks you all above very much. This has blown way out of proportion, all I was asking was to build a floorstanding speaker with a super tweeter on it that simple!!! No one is asking him to copy the actual Zu speaker and drivers, etc: only to make something that style. I am new to Omega and don't know if Louis ever built one like that

fredgarvin · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Oct 2006, 12:10 am »

Absolutely! a super-tweeter is a great idea and no rip-off of Zu. Look at the new Onix Mini designed by Donny Ritchie, looks just like a VMPS 626r with a powered woofer underneath. Is that trespassing on "intelectual property"? I think not. Blatant though.