[oneinthepipe]

Didn't mean to hit a nerve.  Just thought I would ask what transports people are using.  If you are using a stock CD/DVD player from Sony/Phillips or whatever, then my guess is that the new Vision DAC would be a huge improvement.  That is because the internal DAC that you currently have is of lower quality and a higher quality DAC will give you an improvement.  Pretty basic. 

A good transport can and ususally does improve the ability of the DAC to do its job.  If the Van Alstine products work outside of the norm than I apologize.

smargo - thank you for the info on the Wadia.  I look forward to hearing how the DAC continues to improve.  I am an hours and break-in guy as well. 

Cheers and Happy New Year to All!!!!

You didn't hit a nerve with me.  I tried different transports, and the sound was different.  After I bought an Insight DAC, I tried an inexpensive (39.99) DVP to replace a Jolida CDP, and the results were terrible.   The DVP was throwing noise into my system, either dirty AC, emi, or rfi.  Frank diagnosed the problem.  The fix was simple; I took the DVP out of the system and used a better quality CDP.  The improvement was extraordinary. 

My take on CDP/DVP/computer-based transports is, while zeros are zeros and ones are ones, a bad component can throw noise into the system, deteriorating the sound.  The DVP that I bought might have been a lemon, but since then, I plug anything with a switching power supply, including my computer, or anything that is reputed to be noisy, into a separate electrical circuit, just to be on the safe side.  I have a separate circuit for my preamps, dacs, cdp, and turntable and a separate circuit for my amps.

I couldn't tell you if there is excessive jitter in my setup.  I don't know what jitter sounds like and wouldn't know what to listen for; my listening skills are not sufficiently developed to detect jitter.

[smargo]

i am using the wadia - alternatively with a bryston bcd-1 - the wadia with an ipod classic - sounds very good - if the recording is good to begin with - same can be said with the bryston

the bryston so far - when it is playing - seperates instrumental lines - incredibly -(to die from) - the ipod-wadia combo doesn't do that as well - but also sounds generally fantastic

ill report more later today or tomorrow - when i have more time - so far the dac (with approx 168 hours) - is really starting to become very musical - not that it has ever sounded less than great since i have had it - But Im an hours and breakin guy - and the musicality (which is the most important thing to me) - is starting to rear its beautiful head!

happy new year - talk to you later today or tom

smargo

ok - so here it goes - i have approx 175 hours on the dac - it sounds like really no sound - that is to say that there is no detectable character in the music chain - it simply plays music - as good as the recording is - that's how good the dac is

Its at least as good as the bryston bcd-1 (with the bryston running as a full cd player - with decoding and all). As I said in the previous post the separation (at least with the bryston used as a transport is phenomenal).

Im not sure if this is the be all and end all of the dacs out there - but surely with confidence i can say that no one will be dissapointed. Its not like i sit down and listen and am totally blown away and all i want to do for the rest of the day is listen to music.

It really acts like a transparency - it just lets the music come thru - as good as it can come thru your system - it doesn't make your system all of a sudden sound like - oh my god!

For the money outlay - you could honestly say that it sounds a lot more expensive - although again it really doesn't have a sound - more of a letting the music come thru more musically - devoid of anything that gives you buyers remorse.

I have been using an arcam avr -600 - a krell s-300i integrated amp - an older arcam delta 290 integrated amp - mythos super towers with powered subs -morrow audio interconnect and speaker cables - chord speaker cables (I forget the designation) and wireworld gold eclipse # 6 digital cables - from the bryston and from the wadia (ipod deck)

My really only real 2 quibbles are with the dac cosmectics - The red-orange light that shows that the unit is on - can be annoying - just sitting there in your rack - Frank may want to consider a smaller and less offensive light. Also there isn't a detachable power cord on the back - so you cant really experiment.

There is much detail and flowingness that comes thru the dac - again not so good recordings still sound more or less the same - at least to me - but the good recordings that I have - simply sound scrumptious

Much to the backlashing contingent out there - the dac does continue to improve over time - not night and day - but in the actual musicality
that is portrayed.

This is a very good piece of gear - def in my top 10 of the decade - that i have heard in the $1000 dollar range - and i have had many cd players and dacs from $800 to $2700.

I will continue to run the dac and see if there are more good surprises on the horizon - ill report again next week with an update



much regards to everyone,

smargo

[jtwrace]

Also there isn't a detachable power cord on the back - so you cant really experiment.

much regards to everyone,

smargo

Guess you don't know Franks feelings on this...yeah go ahead and ask for one.   

Glad your happy!

[oneinthepipe]

smargo:

You couldn't give Frank a greater compliment than to state that his DAC (or any piece of his gear) "sounds like really no sound".   

Glad that you like the DAC.  I am looking forward to my Vision DAC/Preamplifier. 

Regarding the power cord, don't go there.      Regarding the power indicator lamp, I seem to recall another thread in which there were some suggestions. 

[robinje]

Without commenting on cosmetics, power cords, or break-in...  I'm glad you like your new DAC.  I am about to order one, too, but can't decide whether to get the SL or EC version.  I'll make up my mind today, me thinks...   aa

[srb]

My really only real 2 quibbles are with the dac cosmectics - The red-orange light that shows that the unit is on - can be annoying - just sitting there in your rack -

Regarding the power indicator lamp, I seem to recall another thread in which there were some suggestions.

As much as I really like and prefer pristine front panel cosmetics, I must admit that half of my components wear a small piece of electrical tape somewhere on the front panel.
 
Steve

[charmerci]

I am about to order one, too, but can't decide whether to get the SL or EC version.  I'll make up my mind today, me thinks...   aa

If you listen to older music that doesn't sound good - get the EC. If you only listen to modern good sounding ones, SL.

[floresjc]

Uhm, I thought Frank said they both "sound" the same, the only difference is the input options? Source material aside, the SL/EC argument really depends on what and how much you are going to hook up to it. Maybe I'm mistaken.

[srb]

AFAIK, the two DACs are the Vision and the Vision EC with multiple inputs.  When a reference was made to SL vs EC, I assumed that robinje and charmerci were talking about AVA preamps.
 
Steve

[robinje]

I guess I got my model names mixed up.  I am not interested in a preamp.  My choice is between the basic Vision DAC and the Vision "EC" DAC with multiple inputs.  I am leaning toward the basic model, as I currently only use a CD player as a digital source.  The "EC" version, if I opt for it, would be 'just in case' I add other digital sources in the future.  I will probably just save the money and stick with the basic version because I don't have any forseeable need for more inputs at this time. 

[srb]

If your input needs did change in the future, a possible solution would be to add the Inday DA4X-R Digital Audio Switcher with 4 S/PDIF coax or optical inputs.
 
I don't know if it this device might possibly add any jitter to the signal or not, but based on what I've read here, this is not really an issue with the AVA design or the new Wolfson 8742 DAC chip.  It would also add IR remote control.
 
Steve

[charmerci]

Oops! I forgot that there's a "EC" Vision DAC.

Frank, I suggest that you don't use the EC designation on the new DAC to prevent further confusion with your pre-amp designs.

[robinje]

I made up my mind and ordered a new basic Vision DAC a few minutes ago.   

[Wayner]

Great! I'm sure you will be happy. Of course, let us know what you think when you get it.

Wayner 

[festuss]

Frank

So far the dac sounds delicious - i hate to say this but since thursday it has improved from being really good to being really really good - just wanted to say that so far

 ill report more on wed or thurs - when i have more hours on it - much to the chagrin of the anti hours people. (am i allowed to say that here)

thanks for your promptness (in getting me the unit before christmas)
stu

So if it got better and better, you must be saying there is a drift issue in the electrical parameters? stability issues?  BUT that is not so, in any of Frank's designs. What changed exactly?  I have never had any AVA component change ever.   

[smargo]

So if it got better and better, you must be saying there is a drift issue in the electrical parameters? stability issues?  BUT that is not so, in any of Frank's designs. What changed exactly?  I have never had any AVA component change ever.   

what has changed for me is that the dac has become more musical and involving - I can't prove it other than listening - over 2.5 weeks! Is that so wrong!

smargo

[rajacat]

So if it got better and better, you must be saying there is a drift issue in the electrical parameters? stability issues?  BUT that is not so, in any of Frank's designs. What changed exactly?  I have never had any AVA component change ever.   

So festuss... do you think that your ears are the authority on fine gradations in sound quality? Do you have the Vision DAC? If you don't, then you're just engaging in an opinion based on speculation.

-Roy

[rajacat]

In addition, some people just don't have very sensitive ears.  For instance, everybody isn't gifted with perfect pitch so it follows that some might be able to discern fine gradations in sound quality that others can't perceive.

 -Roy

[pardales]

Whether it is break-in, warming up, or just getting used to the new sound a new piece of gear produces in ones system, I find it takes me several weeks to begin to get a good handle on what a new component does to the sound of my system.

I've got about one week with my new Vision DAC. I moved from an Insight+ to the Vision on a leap of faith. Not my usual M.O.. I usually demo new gear in my system and decide whether I like it more than what I currently have. But, I loved my Insight+ DAC so much (my reference for just over one year, replaced the Altmann Attraction DAC), and trust Frank's judgment, and got caught up in the excitement of his new line-up.

For now, it seems to me that the Vision DAC is an improvement in my system. More open soundstage; clear, clear, crisp--this is perhaps the biggest difference between the Insight+ and the Vision; more inner detail: hearing new things in familiar recordings; balanced and smooth. These are initial impressions--I reserve the right to alter this report.

Mostly though, I find myself wanting to just keep listening to music. The sound of the Vision, as it was with the Insight+, is very satisfying...seems to get the music right.

[trebejo]

Mostly though, I find myself wanting to just keep listening to music.

Well, it sounds like Frank's secret sauce is still au courant. 

Congratulations on your new dac!