[budt]

  I was about to purchase a couple more bryston amps for a pair of Orion active speakers I am building ( almost finished) but I am really having second thoughts based on the new warranty policy. I mean, I will never keep track of a bill for 20 years nor do I want to.Many dealers go out of business so I can't count on getting another copy from the dealer incase mine becomes lost. It is all just a big pain in the ass to keep track of a bill for 20 years.There must be a better way.
   How about registering the product within 30 days of purchase or something to that effect? Then bryston can verify if it was bought from an authorized dealer by checking the serial number.Is this not possible?
 

[Levi]

I have scanned some of my receipts and save them electronically.  I emailed the scanned document to my yahoo and gmail accounts and it will be there for awhile readily accessible anywhere in the world.   This technique also worked for other receipts aswell or some important documents like passports and such.

There has to be a better of way for Bryston's tracking and verifying original customers registered products.  Who's responsible it is anyway?

Levi

[brucek]

It is all just a big pain in the ass to keep track of a bill for 20 years

This hardly seems a good reason not to buy an amplifier. Put the bill in your records drawer and you're done. It doesn't walk away on its own. Don't you keep the deed to your house, your marriage license, etc.

Of course if you decide on a different brand of amplifier you won't have that huge worry, since the warranty will likely be a year at best......

brucek

[budt]

   Brucek
      There are many amps with 5 to 10 year warranties,parasound is 10 years.ATi is 7 etc etc
     
  I did want  new bryston amps  but at this point I am shopping second hand. I want 2 9b ssts with date code prior to march 2006.This way I don't need to keep track of a receipt.
  So if you are in canada and have  1 or 2  9b sst amps  with a date code prior to march 2006 please send me a pm.The amps must be atleast 4 channels each.
   

[EProvenzano]

I think I noticed an 8bst with 4 channels on Canuck Audio Mart a short while ago.

Good luck.

[ec]

It is all just a big pain in the ass to keep track of a bill for 20 years

This hardly seems a good reason not to buy an amplifier. Put the bill in your records drawer and you're done. It doesn't walk away on its own. Don't you keep the deed to your house, your marriage license, etc.

Agreed.  If you are up tight like me and keep all the original boxes and packing, you can keep the invoice in the box. Or you can put the invoice in an envelope and tape (blue tape so it doesn't leave a residue) under the amp.  IMHO Bryston is being quite fair.  They have spoiled us over the years with the transferable no invoice policy.  To give you another example, if you got your roof / shingles redone, the shingles will have a say 20 year warranty, did you keep the receipt or packaging so if the shingles start deteriorating you have recourse with the manufacturer?  For the record, I forgot to do this <doh>

[Phoenix]

Safe-deposit box! 

Should be enough for Bryston stuff and other important documents!

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

I agree that some of the new warranty policies are a pain but I just want to point out that they were instituted in an attempted to maintain a strong and viable specialty dealer and customer base.

Without the support of this dealer base and a strong commitment from our customers to support that dealer base eventually the whole thing goes away.

james

[TH.uk]

Hi All,

I agree that some of the new warranty policies are a pain but I just want to point out that they were instituted in an attempted to maintain a strong and viable specialty dealer and customer base.

Without the support of this dealer base and a strong commitment from our customers to support that dealer base eventually the whole thing goes away.

james

This is only true if you have a "dealer base" that has the same level of commitment as Bryston has...

Or to put it like I read somewhere:

What is a customer? A customer is the most important person ever in this company - in person or by mail. A customer does not depend on us, we are dependent on him. A customer is not an interruption of our work, he is the purpose of it. We are not doing him a favor by serving him, he is doing us a favor by giving us the opportunity to do so. A customer is not someone to argue or match wits with - nobody ever won an argument with a customer. A customer is a person who brings us his wants - it is our job to handle them profitably to him and ourselves.

[bob_h]

If the reason for the warranty change was because of "Grey Marketers" I just wonder where these individuals get their Bryston equipment from? if approved Bryston dealers are part of this chain I think Bryston should be dealing with them. I own 2 pieces of Bryston equipment that I purchased used, from original owners, simply because I cannot afford the price of new equipment.

My point is that if the supply of product to "Grey Marketers" was stopped then the warranty change should have been unnecessary.

[Phil A]

If the reason for the warranty change was because of "Grey Marketers" I just wonder where these individuals get their Bryston equipment from? if approved Bryston dealers are part of this chain I think Bryston should be dealing with them. I own 2 pieces of Bryston equipment that I purchased used, from original owners, simply because I cannot afford the price of new equipment.

My point is that if the supply of product to "Grey Marketers" was stopped then the warranty change should have been unnecessary.

It likely takes resources to ask questions of sellers on Audiogon or other places about the amps such as manuf. date and serial nos.  Once you have information (assuming you're able to get it after effort as people who are not selling as a legit dealer may not give you any or accurate info) you can figure out which dealer Bryston sold the amp to.  The decision then needs to be made as to what Bryston will do or not do to the dealer.  So it is less resources not to try to trace the problem back to the source and from Bryston's standpoint they don't have to worry about ruining a dealer relationship.  For example, what if the amp was stolen from the dealer?  What if it was a sales person or relative of the dealer (or the sales person) who told the dealer the amp was for his or her own use?  Assuming Bryston can even get the info, do you think they want to piss off a dealer and find out the sales person's older brother or father or whoever was the cause.  Yes, I'm sure there are some scam dealers who should not have been signed on by Bryston in the first case but there may be other circumstances such as I noted above that puts Bryston in a difficult position.

[bob_h]

I agree with your comments Phil, Bryston do seem to be taking the easy solution to this problem however, if the problem originates from a dealer then that dealer should be dealt with, if they have sold to a third party, be it family member or other, and that person is reselling then I feel the dealer is the issue.

What we now have is if somebody is unfortunate or careless enough to have lost the receipt they are screwed for warranty, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.

As you commented Bryston should know thru serial # records the history of equipment, if it was originally sold from one of their dealers I don't understand why their warranty conditions needed to change

[mitcho]

I can not believe that Bryston could not keep a record of where the amp/ preamp originated and when.    The supposed grey market sellers had to get their products from somewhere.    Did they not get built by Bryston?   Did Bryston not get paid?

[James Tanner]

HI All,

At any given moment there are always a number of dealers who are willing to 2-step products to a non-authorized dealer for a small markup. There are many new dealers around today due to the huge increase in the Custom Install side of the market.

Many times the manufacturer has no 'history' with these dealers and by the time a specific dealer is found to be 2-stepping and selling to a non authorized dealer it’s simply to late to deal with it.

I know it seems like it would be simple to 'police' the dealers but in the real world that is a tough thing to do. I have spoken to many other hi-end manufacturers and they have had to resort to 'no internet sales allowed' and 'first time buyers with bill of sale' requirements for warranty issues.
 
A further complication is that we have absolutely no control over the dealers in overseas countries. They are the responsibility of our distributors of course but the attitudes are much different. Long-term commitments to customers for these rogue dealers does not exists. We had a situation a year or so ago where 120 volt units were being changed to 240 volt units and resold with serious consequences due to improper design.

Also, in the mix, is the fact that when your authorized dealers go on the internet and see huge numbers of unauthorized internet dealers selling your product or they hear from one of their customers they bought the amp they were considering on-line - they tell you to remove your product from the store.

So it is a tough call as a small manufacturer- how do you keep your authorized committed dealers happy and your customers happy. If you loose the support of your grass-roots dealer base your soon out of business.

Mark my words, if paying the lowest price possible with no regard for either the manufacturer or the dealer base that supports that specialty manufacture continues the specialty dealer and the specialty manufacturer will disappear.

[bob_h]

Thanks for your comments James, I understand your concerns, however, would it not be possible to register the item with Bryston when first purchased to validate the warranty, this record could then be used as the reference for repairs during the 20 years, rather than having to keep track of a receipt.

I fear that the policy you have adopted is going to damage the resale market for Bryston products, neither of the 2 items that I purchased have receipts, to the best of my knowledge I bought them from legitimate original owners, fortunately both have date codes prior to the warranty change. If I was considering a purchase now and knew there would be no warranty because of a missing receipt I think the "edge" Bryston used equipment enjoys would be eroded.

I did not go the used route to screw my local dealer, whom I have dealt with for 25 years, new equipment is simply out of my price range, my dealer knows what I have purchased and the reason why, I still have an excellent relationship with them.

Before I decided on Bryston I read many articles addressing the "best amp. to buy" question, usually a short list of 6 or 8 manufacturers was given in reply, Bryston always included, the big "edge" always noted about Bryston was the warranty 20 years fully transferable, of course that still exists however, I feel your policy change has diminished this advantage.

Regards
Bob

PS. love the pre \ amp

[mitcho]

I agree.   Possibly, you could match the S/N to the dealer etc.   Ensure they send a copy of the BOS with the warranty card.

Your explanation regarding the controls now make more sense.  thanks James.

[James Tanner]

Hi,

We considered the "registration" idea but two problems arose.

1.You do in fact have to rely on each and every customer to contact you.

2. In some parts of the world and in many US States it is against the law to force customers to register in order to validate a warranty.

james

[mitcho]

James.   Thanks for the explanation.  I guess the better your product, the more problems you have.......and you have a good product.   We will just have to be more dilligent in keeping our receipts.   Looking at the build quality, warranty work in most cases is a moot point.

I don't think any of us want to see the loss of specialty manufacturers.  Too much slapped together products out there already.   We don't need to lose the few that care about quality over quantity.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[grsimmon]

In my opinion, the best real-world solution that could and should be offered by Bryston is the following:

Have an area of the Bryston website,  like PMC and others,  where customers may register their purchase if they choose.   This would be optional, and not necessary to validate the customer warranty,  but by doing so relieves the customer of the responsiblity of holding on to a receipt for 20 years. 

If the customer chooses not to use the website registration,  then the responsiblity falls solely on the customer to protect their receipt.

I realize that this takes resources on the part of Bryston (maintaining a registry / database;  maybe hiring 1-2 additional staff to handle the workload, etc.).   I would be more than happy to pay a little more for my next new Bryston piece to support this system.  James,  please consider this.    With all the junk being produced today in the world of stereo,  home entertainment, etc.,   the Bryston 20 year warranty is becoming that much more unusual.   I'm guessing that it figures strongly into the decision of many customers to buy a Bryston in the first place - I know it was for me.    In my opinion it just makes good business sense and customer care to officially support the 20 year warranty more than just telling people,  "save your receipts!".    An optional website registry is the way to go. 

[mitcho]

thanks