Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1

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Tyson

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #40 on: 23 Oct 2010, 11:14 am »
I find that reading comprehension seems to be a real problem these days.....

Reminds me of my post from last year:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=34844

Greg

I don't quite catch your meaning.....

Mrs. Ninja

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #41 on: 24 Oct 2010, 10:01 pm »
Great link I have printed the list and am starting my own taste test.

Mrs. Ninja

Mrs. Ninja...
You might like this thread.... Link...  :wink:

Mrs. Ninja

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #42 on: 25 Oct 2010, 10:06 pm »


Reminds me of my post from last year:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=34844
Greg

OK I read the entire thing and I must have been at a very different show last year from you guys on the other forum and you all over there don't seem very nice to each other. The conversation was the epitome of most people's problem with audiophiles. The conversation got off topic and snarky and name cally and I cannot believe anyone would want to go thru that. Sorry.

A few gems I did find in the thread....

"Everyone has a different idea as to what good sound is and different aspects of sound reproduction are more important to some people than others. Also, you can't take what you hear at shows too seriously. Room acoustics are all different from room to room. And some systems will perform better in that type of setting than others."

Yes everyone hears differently just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the reason some rooms sound better is because some exhibitors treat the rooms (and it souldn't be just some it should be all.)

"Listen up. If we keep perpetuating the current audiophile market (Middle aged men white/asian). We will see most of the high end companies fall to the wayside as the population base ages. "

You know I agree here.

"As for the gross generational rant about high-end killing itself off due to ignoring Gen Y (guessing here), you may want to ask which of your friends think that low-rez MP3s are "great" music. I'm personally of the opinion that ubiquitous low-grade music is more damaging to high-quality audio than any generational churn issues that have been going on for centuries."

So why haven't we in the industry done anything about this? Do they know better than a MP3 to know better music? Where is the technology that makes High end also Easy too and convenient? So we identify and blame but don't try to solve? that seems insane (as in continuing to do the same thing hoping for a different result.)

"Our Hobby is dying...because Music doesn't play as large a roll in people's busy lives....as it did 30+ years ago. People don't just sit & listen nor do they just sit & watch TV or DVDs. They are up & down...multitasking."

When multitasking are we not listening to music and do we not still want it to sound great. I as a music love do.

"If manufacturers started letting people audition their own material, then there would be a long line of people wanting to listen to their music for their quasi-private demo. Then you get into the issue of various tastes and what people want/like. If I'm a die-hard classical music fan, then I may think negatively of a speaker playing a genre of which I don't approve, even if it is a speaker more suited to my musical tastes. Given that the point of the show is to sell speakers (and other accessories of real or dubious value), manufacturers maintaining control of their demo should be expected. Only the ones that have utmost confidence in their design and/or customers would let someone put random music on their system."

1. They do and too much that is why Mrs. Ninja's Audio Show Music Do's and Dont's had to be said.
2. Never seen the line for the quasi-private demo but I believe every exhibitor would love that. A line to thier room. Maybe that was a vote for the letting people bring in demo material.
3. Most people do not buy from the show.(Rarely do you not have to haul back everything you came in with.) They go to try out, dream and plan ahead. I do not know any audiophile who's system is ever bought in one session or really ever done.

"High end audio has carved out almost an elitist niche. It is also true that the high end audio market is facing a shrinking market base. Until they reach out to those other than the current high end buyers, the trend will continue."

Please someone explain "High-End Audio," is it the stuff under $1000 no longer high end because of a price tag? Because Bose' Acoustimass® 10 Series IV home entertainment speaker system is $999.95. with s/h its over $1k. Does that make it high end? (Sarcasm dripping) So we know price dosen't make alot of sense, hearing is subjective and everyone will disagree on the "science" v/s "snake-oil" products. You are on one side or the other and you know you are right.

So that just leaves my original post... we havn't planted the seeds. Its up to us and not the old ways to move us forward and like christians versus the rest of the planet thier will never be a resolve. So live and let die. ~Wings

Mrs. Ninja

Did I get what you were saying?

JohnR

Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #43 on: 25 Oct 2010, 11:36 pm »
Where is the technology that makes High end also Easy too and convenient?

I think it's coming. Of course, it doesn't matter what you say, someone is going to say it's "not really high end" and then the issue perpetuates - so let's just say "very good for the money."

Bigfish

Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #44 on: 25 Oct 2010, 11:57 pm »
Quote
"Listen up. If we keep perpetuating the current audiophile market (Middle aged men white/asian). We will see most of the high end companies fall to the wayside as the population base ages. "

I guess we could look back at VHS, Beta Max Players to see evidence that technology changes buyer/market directions.  The Audio Marketplace is not and will not be immune to technology advancements. 

I believe there will be an audiophile market in the future but the equipment used to deliver the music will likely be totally different than most of us can comprehend.  Heck, even we old audiophiles of today are rapidly adopting computer servers/DACs and discarding CD players/Turntables.  There will be a demand for quality gear in the future.  Some of the companies producing equipment today will survive, some will not and others will pop up to fill the niche. 

Ken

dBe

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 2
« Reply #45 on: 28 Oct 2010, 02:03 am »
Continued from part 1...

Moving the Hobby/Industry Forward
This was on a lot of people’s minds this year and I was asked how we can get more young people and women interested. “WELL…,” I answered and paused because I wasn’t really sure if they wanted the answer given that the audio world is 95% men over the age of 50 and it was usually them doing the asking. This problem I believe has a few root issues that can be overcome with a few solutions as I will outline for you. (Now if you are over the age of 50 and in the audio hobby I am sure you are as spry as a jack rabbit so you can ignore my generalities an assume I am talking about someone else, unless you own a business in this industry then I am talking about you.)

Root cause number 1: Living in the past
Just for an example let’s look at the Stereophile November 2010 edition available if you don’t already get it at the show. The cover tells us of Manfred Eicher’s 40 years in the biz,  Focal’s 30th anniversary, and the Smyth Realiser article has the writer remembering back to the 1960’s. Come on guys. The “when I started in this hobby” stories are fine but to live there in business is just plain irresponsible. Currently the model isn’t killing the industry because the guys with the money are the ones more established (aka older) but in a few years that well is going to start drying up and we have not planted any seeds to replace the crop we have now.

Solution number 1: Futures stock
As children where did your love of big speakers or new music come from? Have you taken the time to teach your own kids about the differences in a MP3 played over tiny ear buds and sitting with a pair of electrostatic cans playing your HDTracks recording or vintage Doors on vinyl? If we do not start educating the next generation we will not have an industry for very long. For example, The Ninja and I have a 13 year old daughter and she as all kids her age has a computer. But, unlike all her friends she has Swan M-200’s as her desktop speakers. Who’s room and for that matter who’s house do they spend the most time? Right the one they can play the music loudest and it sounds the best. Our daughter will never own some crappy plastic speaker that just makes noise because she knows better. I do understand a lot of parents do not want to spend the kind of money involved in the audio hobby on their kids (they won’t appreciate it, or take care of it) but you don’t know until you have tried. If they had to pay part of it I bet they do take real good care of it.

As with our kids our wives and/or significant other should be educated in the hobby and made a part of it. It is sad for the industry too because women have much better hearing then men. It has been proven that we hear more frequencies men can’t and are more sensitive to the top range. We see more color and are in every way more adept at picking out a loudspeaker that would truly fit the family not to mention pick a better “best in show”. Wives are shuffled off on day trips and excluded from learning about the hobby. Many men do not want us in the club, sitting in the room saying how it is (you know we will.)  Maybe next year I will hold an Audio for Loved ones 101 seminar and give the basics and start making high end audio fun for the whole family. I mean the High Def TV industry; BluRay and Disney have certainly started banking on the family home theater concept. Two channel music, vintage media, and even high end personal portable audio (the headphone) can go family friendly.

Root cause number 2: Tape and vinyl v/s dreaded MP3
New technologies the young un’s seem the most interested in have teeny tiny files on them to store a thousand songs and still be used as a phone. New artists do not release on vinyl ort (do not even know what they are) and they chop of the tops and bottoms of everything. Where does any of that belong in our world of lossless media and restoration analog projects? It doesn’t until we can find a way to make high quality digital media more accessible/cost affordable. I heard an interesting idea, a music only operating system, seems to me that is something the younger generation could get really into. The more we create products that will make technology retrofit with the past the younger our audience would get.

Solution number 2: it’s here now and proven
In the beginning the old guys (I mean pioneers) of audiophiles were taking things apart to see how they worked, how to make them better and then reached a precipice. Started companies and didn’t want to share anymore in the sandbox. They were modding, tweaking, the loners in basements and garages.

Today modding or tweaking is an activity universal in industries across the board that young people gravitate to that our hobby does not make very assessable (of course you all know The Ninja and I are doing what we can to change that.) But, we cannot do it alone the manufactures also have to realize that they have to give a little to get that new breed of buyers.

Let’s compare high end audio to the computer industry, where building your own computer has become almost the norm for college kids and 20-somethings. They grew up with the tech and now customize to their hearts content. I-apps make it so we can customize our phones, surfers, skiers, snowboarders all can customize their boards, and of course the biggest one has always been cars. In the 1960’s when Shelby started messing around with a Mustang it did not devalue what the car manufacture (Ford) had done. Nor could Ford produce the car on a mass scale, to a public that could afford it, the changes that Shelby had made, as good as they were. But, a perfect symmetry of good design getting pushed to its limit for the people that wanted it was created and the industry has not suffered because of it (other things yes but not because of aftermarket upgrades.) We can make the same synergy in home audio and gain a whole new demographic of buyers and of what we really want …audiophiles.

You could take the last part as shameless self promotion but The Ninja and I are younger than most of you and we know we are right. (Like we are the only modding company out there – PLEASE.)

OK now for something completely different…
So far I have been quite snarky and a little bit a bummer so let’s turn it around. What I liked and didn’t like this year… (Yea I know I said I wasn’t going to do it, sue me)

 :thumb: Liked the sound of the GR Research room, treatments galore thanks to Dave (PI Audio).
 :thumbdown: Didn’t like the Lamborghini Yellow (aka cat piss yellow) paint job on Danny’s Super V’s. Danny please take the next year and find a cabinet maker worthy of your speaker designing genius.
 :thumb: Liked the German Physiks HRS 120 on the 11th Floor where Laufer Teknik had appropriate sized speakers for the room and some treatments in there.
 :thumbdown: Didn’t Like the German Physiks Borderland Mk IV on the 10th Floor. The speakers are too big for the room and just placed in there (too close to the back wall) with no treatments or anything. For an omnidirectional speaker it was the worst thing you could have done.
 :D Like Frederik Caroe of Dueland Coherent Audio. Congrats on the new little one, baby at home and the more affordable line of Dueland caps coming out. You have truly earned the name The Mad Capper.
 :duh: Didn’t Like Vandersteen’s room this year without the cage. Come on guys the 7’s are about the only thing you have done that I don’t hate and you ruined it this year by not treating the room. Now last year you did it right. Make a note for next year.

Well I think that wraps it up for me. If anything else happened I don’t remember because I had one to many scotches at the bar before bed each night.

Mrs. Ninja
Mrs. Ninja.  I'm really late to the thread for a lot of reasons and some poor excuses but let me say thank you on many levels.  It is great meeting people that are as passionate about what I do for many of the same reasons.  You two are right there where I live.  I appreciate the plug for the acoustics work that we did in the room (GR Research/Dodd/dB Audio Labs/PI audio group)  I don't understand why this is overlooked by industry professionals.  It was easy to dial the room acoustics in with the diffusers and made a helluva difference.

Thanks for answering the questions about more women in audio.  I liked the answer you gave at the table in the bar: "Stop lying to your wives about how much it costs!"  Like you said, spouses are not dumb.

Thanks for being a direct, honest person in a world full of "My, isn't that nice?"  When something sucks, it sucks.

Lady, you and Sean ROCK!

<><

Dave

Mrs. Ninja

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #46 on: 28 Oct 2010, 03:55 pm »
Thank you Dave,

I call it like I see it. Good point you remind me of when it comes to our wives.

We have had customers ask we send packages out without any logos or labeling at all (as if we were the porn that comes in the discrete white box) so their wives would not know they had spent the money on more audio gear. The customer is always right so we accommodate but this level of deception for a few hundred bucks is very showing of a relationship. The wife probably would be on board with the money spent if she was educated and brought into her loved ones passion. Just like the joking phrase "No Honey, we've always had that," when the little woman noticed a new piece in the equipment stack.

It's these types of behaviors that keep the hobby "a old boys club" and one that appears to many that doesn’t want to share. You would not be the first male hobby that was reluctant to let the secrets go the ladies (GOLF anyone.) But overcoming these stereotypes of the hobby as well as opening up new revenue opportunities will move us all forward.

Thanks for reminding me and the drink,

Mrs. Ninja

dBe

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Re: Mrs. Ninja's RMAF 2010 Write Up Part 1
« Reply #47 on: 28 Oct 2010, 04:22 pm »
Thank you Dave,

I call it like I see it. Good point you remind me of when it comes to our wives.

We have had customers ask we send packages out without any logos or labeling at all (as if we were the porn that comes in the discrete white box) so their wives would not know they had spent the money on more audio gear. The customer is always right so we accommodate but this level of deception for a few hundred bucks is very showing of a relationship. The wife probably would be on board with the money spent if she was educated and brought into her loved ones passion. Just like the joking phrase "No Honey, we've always had that," when the little woman noticed a new piece in the equipment stack.

It's these types of behaviors that keep the hobby "a old boys club" and one that appears to many that doesn’t want to share. You would not be the first male hobby that was reluctant to let the secrets go the ladies (GOLF anyone.) But overcoming these stereotypes of the hobby as well as opening up new revenue opportunities will move us all forward.

Thanks for reminding me and the drink,

Mrs. Ninja
My pleasure on both counts.

I'm blessed with a wife (of lo, many years) that loves what I do as much as I.  She is a music lover and has freakin' amazing ears.  She is my "goto" when I do a new tweak because there is no PC crap between us.  She calls 'em as she hears 'em.

Gotta love a direct woman.  I'm sure than Sean does, too.   :thumb:

My best,

Dave