AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => The Culinary Circle => Topic started by: Peter J on 26 Mar 2019, 11:54 pm
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I'm almost afraid to ask, as it seems cookware is almost as polarizing as audio gear, but I know there are aficionados here with more insight and knowledge than me. Let me preface by saying I'm not much of a cook and neither is DW. We need decent stuff, preferably non-stick and tolerant of some unintentional abuse.
Years ago, I bought a set of ScanPan cookware. My, perhaps uninformed, thinking was once-and-done, buy good stuff. Worked OK, but DW likes to get things HOT and has all but killed the big frypan. If it was ever non stick, it's not now. Last night I smoked some macaroni and cheese in a saucepan and, despite my best efforts, the bottom is black with macaroni shapes outlined. :oops:
So I think, time to buy another set. Look for reviews. What a confusing morass of shit. Any given set will have lovers and haters with little in between. I'm wondering if, for our use anyway, looking at it from a 3-5 year lifespan then replace, might be more viable. I rarely adopt a philosophy like that, but maybe I should.
I think " this can be done for $300 or less" . Can it? Am I foolish to think I need to spend more that $100? I need some perspective. Bring it on, ye who cook.
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After 25 years of going through cookware, we now keep it simple -- the most used cookware in our arsenal is an iron skillet. I will never buy non-stick cookware again. No matter how much money you spend, it's not gonna stay non-stick. The $20 iron skillet, properly seasoned, is the original non-stick cookware. It also holds heat very well and is easy to clean (water only!).
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I've had the Calphalon Elite fry pans for 5 or so years now. They get pretty heavy use and go from gas cook top to oven often. I've been very happy with the performance and durability. You can find them on sale often at Williams and Sonoma. Just be sure to allow to cool before washing and I keep a paper towel between the pans when stored to reduce the scratches, I also do not use metal utensils or am careful when I do use metal tongs.
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While I have little experience with nonstick I would look at Costco for cookware. They currently have a 10 piece JA Henckels non-stick set on sale for $199.00 with very good reviews. Costco has a great return policy if you don’t like it. And I’m not associated with Costco, just a fan.
Regarding cast iron, we also have cast iron pieces that work well because they’re properly treated, however they are so heavy my wife avoids them.
Brett
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new direct from manufacturer - Missen. I replaced everything with these. Allclad quality and fraction of price.
John.
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Just say no to non-stick. They do not last, cook unevenly, and you'll be buying again soon.
An iron skillet is okay, but can be a pain to cure and maintain...and is just one piece of cookware.
My wife and I wanted a one-and-done set of cookware, too. Twenty years ago we sold our old stuff, mortgaged the house (not really, but we thought we couldn't afford the set at that time), and decided to go for a set that would do everything...forever. We researched a lot and we found it. It was/is All-Clad. Today it truly looks as good as the day we bought it and cooks better than any cookware we've ever owned. Most of that latter feature is a result of the bonded design (stainless steel bonded over an aluminum core). These guys just exude quality in looks and performance. The linked set may be out of your price range, but note that you can get smaller sets for less...and hopefully add pots or pans later to fill out your needs. It will stand more heat than your stove AND oven can produce and is dishwasher safe (the Mrs. requirement :))
You can likely find a set for a hundred bucks that hopefully gets you through the year and cooks...okay. The only cooking we ever do not using the All-Clad is when I bbq or we want to wok something.
Here you go...think about buying a set as a lifetime investment. They're wonderful!
https://www.amazon.com/All-Clad-Tri-Ply-Cookware-Dishwasher-Stainless/dp/B005H8KD3E/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=all%2Bclad&qid=1553652633&s=gateway&sr=8-6&th=1
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I completely agree regarding All Clad. We’ve had a set for about 15 years and it looks and cooks the same as when we bought it. However We do have 2 inexpensive T-fal frying pans for cooking things like eggs, hash and a few other things. They hold up well enough and when they get scratched I throw them out. We got them at Target for under $20.
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"Last night I smoked some macaroni and cheese in a saucepan and, despite my best efforts, the bottom is black with macaroni shapes outlined. :oops:"
Aaagh! There's not a surface on earth that could withstand that combination!
There's no "perfect" surface for cooking and it really depends on what you're trying to cook. Iron is great if you're prepared to season it but once you add water and simmer for a while, the carefully created surface can be degraded. Great for frying, not so good for simmering in water.
Stainless steel [copper base or something similar] is fantastic for boiling/cooking in water but sticks when frying. It's probably the "safest" choice for all round work, though a stainless frypan is a complete waste of money.
Copper, as in classic French heavy duty tinned stuff, has some amazing qualities if you use it daily in a restaurant but it's pretty useless domestically [probably a good thing given its cost :)]
Aluminum, much hated by many after a 20th century scare over Al poisoning, can be very good in some limited situations. If you're trying to cook an omlette in butter, it will do a great job. It also conducts heat evenly and fast.
Scanware can still be useful if you only use it for very specific jobs where it just can't over-heat. A Scanware roasting pan will last for many, many years if it's only used in the oven, at moderate temps, with a fair mass of meat/veg in the pan.
I'd suggest you don't get a "set" of anything but maybe buy a couple of stainless [conductive base] saucepans, an iron frying pan and other individual utensils that will work for what you cook.
As for the macaroni and cheese ... either hold off adding the cheese til it's cooked or if you're re-heating it, the dreaded microwave is the only way it isn't going to stick horribly!
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I like this pan, though it takes seasoning:
https://www.amazon.com/MINERAL-Round-Carbon-Steel-12-5-Inch/dp/B00462QP1G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=175V1HLOIEWL8&keywords=de+buyer+carbon+steel&qid=1553679038&s=gateway&sprefix=de+buyer%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-1
I also use cast iron and stainless steel. Usually All-Clad, though I have other German manufacturers.
Unfortunately, for eggs, you really do need a non-stick. I personally can't get my cast iron or carbon steel seasoned enough to cook eggs.
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Another cast Iron fan here. Buy quality American like Lodge very reasonably priced and come preseasoned. This cookware will last forever and can be used stove top or in the oven. Just follow the cleaning and seasoning directions and you shouldn't have any problems.
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+1 on the lodge cast iron. If it weren't for the women in my life, I'd be using only cast iron with one exception...I use a 8" non stick skillet to cook my morning eggs
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A few years back i gave away my inexpensive but really good set of cuisinart cookware to my nephew and bought all-clad copper core to replace them. End of the day both sets are nice, but I can’t recommend all-clad as the lids are not USA made and they develop rust spots almost immediately. All-clad replaced them without hassle, but the replacement lids have the same issue.
I don't think you can use historical data when selecting kitchen gear as manufacturers contract out so much these days.
I would minimize aluminum in your cookware though, focus on quality stainless steel and enamel cast-iron.
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I've not had issues with rust on my full set of All Clad pots and pans. I love my set. Tough as nails and looks cool on the pot rack in the kitchen.
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I use Le Creuset they have lifetime guarantee, some the the newer designs still have 10 - 15 year guarantee. I have been using them for years, in all those years i have only every returned one thing which they replaced and i think that may have been my fault.
www.lecreuset.co.uk
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If you are using an induction cooktop, you can't beat Hexclad. Really even heat and you can even use metal spatula on the non-stick surface. I don't though. Best spatula is the one from Creuset.
I have tried them all. Next best is Masterclad. Creuset heat slugs are too small diameter so you have to use a large burner on a small pan.
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All Clad is great, the last cookware you will ever need. I cook eggs in mine all the time and they don't stick but there is a trick to it. Heat the pan a little, add oil and let it get super hot but not smoking, then take the hot pan off the burner for a few minutes to cool down a little. When the pan has cooled to the egg cooking temp add the eggs, the surface will be just as slippery as a non-stick. A little practice and you'll get the hang of it.
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All Clad fan here. I bucked up about 25 years ago for a nice set and have never looked back. I added a second 6 quart sauté pan because I use that pan the most. I also have a pair of nice non-stick frying pans but replace them every four or five years.
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I have four All-Clad pans and although they've performed quite well over the last 15 years, I do find their handles are rather uncomfortable compared to many other pans.
If you go to a store to see them, make sure you heft a couple (throw an object in them to simulate actual weighted use) and see if this is of any concern or not for you.
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I've not had issues with rust on my full set of All Clad pots and pans. I love my set. Tough as nails and looks cool on the pot rack in the kitchen.
This ^. In 20 years I have had no issues with rust or any problem with my All-Clad lids (or any other part of the things). And I agree that eggs are a joy to cook if you get the pan heated well, first. No problem there.
When I provided the link above, I was a little surprised by the cladding over aluminum. I could swear mine are clad over copper. But then I'm older than the Great Wall....
Peter...go All-Clad and you'll be thanking us for decades...as will your significant other be thanking you. :D
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Another Le Creuset fan. I have pans that are over 50 years old and still going strong. That said, it's the quality of the cooking with very even heat dispersion that I like. They're also pretty easy to clean and have no nasty chemicals.
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When I provided the link above, I was a little surprised by the cladding over aluminum. I could swear mine are clad over copper. But then I'm older than the Great Wall....
The flat edge on the rim of the All-Clad pans is not plated or rolled, so it's easy to see the individual layers of the core metal + inside/outside cladding. If yours had a copper core, it would be visible on that edge.
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This is what the copper core looks like:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HHFKCEZ7L.jpg)
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Enameled cast iron is all I use.
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Tramontina stainless was highly rated in the affordable category about 5 years ago when I bought my set. Feel like I got a great deal for good quality - still happy years later.
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This is what the copper core looks like:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HHFKCEZ7L.jpg)
Thanks, Tyson. I checked ours and they appear to be aluminum core. When did you buy your set? Ours were purchased almost 20 years ago. Do you know...when did the copper come out/go away?
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This is what the copper core looks like:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41HHFKCEZ7L.jpg)
I have one of their 10" Copper core skillets that I picked up about 10 years ago at a Factory Outlet (I have no clue what the "Blemish" was - they were on sale and I got to pick it out). Was pricey, but I absolutely love it. Polishes up to "almost new" if I want to put the effort into it.
Firm believer in "Mis-matched" Cookware. I have Le Cruset enameled CI, Lodge CI, All-Clad, and some old Revereware that I inherited from my Mother (Copper bottom that still polishes up and is probably 40+ years old).
Each has a task that it performs better than the others.
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I have one of their 10" Copper core skillets that I picked up about 10 years ago at a Factory Outlet (I have no clue what the "Blemish" was - they were on sale and I got to pick it out). Was pricey, but I absolutely love it. Polishes up to "almost new" if I want to put the effort into it.
Firm believer in "Mis-matched" Cookware. I have Le Cruset enameled CI, Lodge CI, All-Clad, and some old Revereware that I inherited from my Mother (Copper bottom that still polishes up and is probably 40+ years old).
Each has a task that it performs better than the others.
What's the task of the Revere Ware? My mother has a full set that is 50+ years old.
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Revere Ware is a bit too thin to spread heat very evenly.
Fine for heating liquids, but sketchy for searing and browning, particularly on a gas burner.
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All-clad copper core lids rust spots, purchased about ten years ago.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192640)
Again, just the pot is usa made now, the lids are not.
Pots are great pans, just a huge disappointment with the lids.
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Thanks, Tyson. I checked ours and they appear to be aluminum core. When did you buy your set? Ours were purchased almost 20 years ago. Do you know...when did the copper come out/go away?
Oh I have always had just the steel clad, not the copper clad. Works plenty well for me. The copper looks cool but the differences in performance are negligible.
Now, on the other hand, my parents sold their farm recently and are likely to hand down some pure copper pots and pans to me that they bought in Spain 45 years ago, I have no doubt those will be better than my stainless All Clad.
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Ha, I knew I could count on y'all to further confuse me! But only for a while.
For me the attraction to a "set" is, ah, well, simpllicity and seemingly a better deal to be had. Admittedly, the visual matching component was probably in play, too.
It occurs to me that I wouldn't apply the same thought process to, say, woodworking tools. All flavors of tools in my arsenal. No siingle manufacturer captures all my tool money, why would I do that with cooking tools?
So, I'm gonna do it piecemeal and get tools best suited for tasks, methinks. A bit at a time. I really do love well made stuff and have to say, the All Clad gear looks like it checks many of my "good stuff" boxes. Those fry pans, they look so...purposeful! Ahh, there I go, letting the emotional component in...
Thanks for the reality check. I'm on a new path now.
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All Clad also has a lifetime warrantee and if you run into issues they will replace any problems, free of charge.
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You gotta add some All Clad in your arsenal. However, if you don't want to spend All Clad money, then consider Cuisinart Multiclad. I have a mixture of the two brands, plus a Le Creuset enameled cast iron pot and a couple of copper pots. All of them work great.
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What's the task of the Revere Ware? My mother has a full set that is 50+ years old.
They are my “Everyday” Pots - good for heating up liquids, soups, etc. Take a beating and still clean up if you put the effort in. I’ve burned stuff in them upon occasion through the years, but you wouldn’t know it. Dishwasher safe (I’d NEVER do that to my good stuff). Have a big “Stock” pot with colander insert that I use for a bunch of stuff - noodles etc.
Plus it carries many, many memories. It’s what I learned to cook on in my Mother’s kitchen.
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I can recommend Aus-Ion steel pans from Solidteknics. They are not too heavy, distribute heat VERY well and brown and sear like nothing else. Since they are iron, they develop seasoning making them largely non stick.
Solidteknics:
http://www.solidteknics.com/ion
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new direct from manufacturer - Missen. I replaced everything with these. Allclad quality and fraction of price.
John.
Thanks for the heads-up on this. Unfamiliar to me but it looks very interesting, and the reviews are great. :thumb:
https://www.misen.co/products/misen-cookware-sets?variant=47525341772
For the past 20 yrs I've cooked almost everyday on my "Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized Aluminum" set, and it's still going strong. It's not non-stick, made specifically for searing and deglazing. Ruggedly built in America, cooks evenly, cleans up well, and reasonably priced.
I have no experience with the premium sets discussed here, but I have absolutely no complaints and would recommend it to anyone who perhaps wants reliable quality at a lower price than All-Clad.
EDIT: a quick online search suggests that this original set is no longer available. Non-stick version is, but I would stay away from that.
http://www.calphalon.com/en-US/commercial-hard-anodized/calphalon-commercial-nonstick-13-piece-cookware-set-ca-1849156--1
My set looks identical, except my lids are metal not glass, and the interior is not Non-Stick.
When it comes time to replace it, I'll definitely look into the Misen.
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The Misen pots/pans look nice. Personally I'm a big fan of a complete matching set because of aesthetics. But then, I'm weird like that. On the other hand, my pots/pans look kinda mean on my pot rack and I love that :D
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Thanks for the heads-up on this. Unfamiliar to me but it looks very interesting, and the reviews are great. :thumb:
https://www.misen.co/products/misen-cookware-sets?variant=47525341772
For the past 20 yrs I've cooked almost everyday on my "Calphalon Commercial Hard-Anodized Aluminum" set, and it's still going strong. It's not non-stick, made specifically for searing and deglazing. Ruggedly built in America, cooks evenly, cleans up well, and reasonably priced.
I have no experience with the premium sets discussed here, but I have absolutely no complaints and would recommend it to anyone who perhaps wants reliable quality at a lower price than All-Clad.
EDIT: a quick online search suggests that this original set is no longer available. Non-stick version is, but I would stay away from that.
http://www.calphalon.com/en-US/commercial-hard-anodized/calphalon-commercial-nonstick-13-piece-cookware-set-ca-1849156--1
My set looks identical, except my lids are metal not glass, and the interior is not Non-Stick.
When it comes time to replace it, I'll definitely look into the Misen.
I just got a 12” Skillet and 8” Chef’s Knife from Misen this week. I did a quick test of the Skillet and I would say that my initial impression is that it is similar to my All Clad, but we’ll have to see how it hold’s up long term. I will say that the knife is sharp.
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If the OP insists on non-stick, and if it is as ruggedly built in America as my 20 yr old set of Commercial Anodized (not non-stick), I'd say that for the $$ you can't go wrong with this set:
https://www.amazon.com/Calphalon-Cookware-Commercial-Nonstick-Pieces/dp/B00IZMFBZ4/ref=sr_1_4?hvadid=176948566703&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1023102&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=15700253365599227139&hvtargid=kwd-334390270&keywords=calphalon+commercial+hard&qid=1553958461&s=home-garden&sr=1-4
Commercial grade means it's built to stand up to some abuse. Mine has!
Mine is made in Toledo, Ohio -- home of Corporal Klinger. :icon_lol:
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My wife and I like "Chantal" cookware.
https://www.chantal.com/cookware/
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If non stick is what you want buy open stock Wearever commercial grade and replace them when food starts to stick. None of them lasts. I keep a dedicated egg pan and don't allow it to be used with anything else. I also have a large (14") non stick I use and replace every 6 months or so. That's it.
Find a kitchen supply place nearby and look at Winco or Vollrath products. They have triple ply bottoms and distribute heat very well. Some of mine are 25 years old and look brand new.
I'll second and third cast iron. If properly seasoned and cared for, the pans will last many lifetimes. I keep a cast iron griddle for the grill. Steaks, chops, burgers, and scallops get the best crust imaginable from the sear.
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Commercial grade means it's built to stand up to some abuse. Mine has!
My Calphalon Commercial Non-Stick (Toledo, USA) 8"/10" frypan's coating became unusable after 5 years.
Oddly, my Simply Calphalon Non-Stick (China) 10"/12" frypans are still in service after almost 10 years.
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My Calphalon Commercial Non-Stick (Toledo, USA) 8"/10" frypan's coating became unusable after 5 years.
Which is why in my earlier post I said that I'd avoid non-stick for "real" cooking: searing, browning, deglazing, sauces, boiling, warming, etc. Non-stick not necessary for this if proper cooking techniques are employed, and the pan is properly made and releases as it should.
For frying / sauteing certain "sticky" foods like eggs, fish, etc. I use cheapo non-stick pans, and chuck em when the surface wears. Even the better pricey ones crap out.
I concur with deadhead -- the surface always wears out making them disposable, and IMO it doesn't pay to spend bux on them.
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Here is some excellent cookware
https://www.copperpans.com/
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Personally, it doesn't bother me in the least that a non-stick skillet wears out in a couple years. They're a tool meant to be used and sometimes tools wear out. I've been buying ScanPans most expensive $200+ 12" non-stick skillets direct from their website during their year end / Black Friday sales for half price or less. Their best quality line lasts better than most, they're well made, and heat evenly. Analon Nouvelle Copper is another higher end non-stick cookware that heats evenly and is well made. (my comments about even heating are based on performance with our induction range.) Main thing I find that destroys non stick prematurely is not following instructions about avoiding excessively high heat. We've got several pieces of All-Clad's mid-line US made multi-ply and it is very nice, no doubt. Surprisingly, the best performing piece of cookware I have for our induction range is a very old Sears 13" straight side covered sauté pan made in Korea.
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Personally, it doesn't bother me in the least that a non-stick skillet wears out in a couple years. They're a tool meant to be used and sometimes tools wear out. I've been buying ScanPans ....
Interestingly Scanware have [maybe had since I haven't tested it for 5 years or so] a "lifetime" guarantee on their non-stick pans. I have no idea why they make the offer when they must know the product won't last a lifetime but I have found they're good to their word, for at least one replacement. Used in the oven, where temp. is strictly controlled, Scan baking pans really are good for a lifetime. Even when used on gas cook tops past the point where they have lost their non-stick properties, they are quite functional. If you give them a wipe over with oil after washing and then heat dry that oil, they can develop a surface a little like an iron pan but with more even heat transfer and better conductivity.
Sticking is only one aspect of cooking and it can be managed on pretty much any surface you like to name by careful temperature management, choice of cooking oil [or sometimes butter] and of course judicious use of tools.