[ebag4]

I am going to build a pair of speakers and possibly a center channel for a buddy of mine.  He is a musicphile and plays a lot of hi res multichannel music in a room approximately 16’x22’x9’ with a 6’ opening into another larger room.  He is using an Onkyo receiver with plenty of power and also has an Outlaw sub.

His current L&R are inexpensive Polk towers.  His complaint with the Polks is that they don’t have enough weight in the mid bass.

I considered the X-Static, but getting it out 3’ from the front wall may be problematic.  One other piece of info, there is a 65” Plasma TV that will sit between them, not that there is anything a speaker design can do for that as far as I know. So I am looking for recommendations.  I would like to keep the driver/xover cost in the $400. range or less. 

Bonus question:  I am also considering building the XLS Encore for another person, however the X Omni popped up and I noted that Danny felt the Omni was the better speaker compared to the XLS, but how would it compare to the floor standing version?  Are the Neo versions (N2X?) still available?

In both cases some form of rock is typically played.  Thanks for any input you can offer.

Best,
Ed

[Jmitchell3]

An option I'm considering is the x-cs in the tower mtm configuration. A bit more oomph than the xls floorstanders, by my reckoning....

[JLM]

From the GR website, the X-LS Encore is the best fit I can find.  A slighter bigger mid/woofer should resolve the lack of mid-bass weight client compliant versus the A/V-O Omni and provide a more forward presentation.  Suggest if the X-SLS (tower) version or A/V-O Omni is chosen to adjust tweeter height to match listener ear height.  The X-Statik is a completely different design, not purist at all, with the opposite presentation of a monitor, and has unnecessary additional woofers (client already has a sub).  Best to ask the client what he (and any significant other) wants first. 

[ebag4]

From the GR website, the X-LS Encore is the best fit I can find.  A slighter bigger mid/woofer should resolve the lack of mid-bass weight client compliant versus the A/V-O Omni and provide a more forward presentation.  Suggest if the X-SLS (tower) version or A/V-O Omni is chosen to adjust tweeter height to match listener ear height.  The X-Statik is a completely different design, not purist at all, with the opposite presentation of a monitor, and has unnecessary additional woofers (client already has a sub).  Best to ask the client what he (and any significant other) wants first.

Thanks Jeff, I don’t believe all available models are listed on the website which is one of the reasons I asked.  I am considering the MTM center channel model either in a sealed or ported tower version, but am hoping to get feedback from those that have heard it.  The XLS Encore tower version is the other I am considering.  I do not believe the Omni version will work for my buddy (not a client).

An option I'm considering is the x-cs in the tower mtm configuration. A bit more oomph than the xls floorstanders, by my reckoning....

Thanks JMitchell3, this is the way I am currently leaning.

My hope is to get feedback from those that have heard some of Danny’s enclosure based offerings.  I am personally familiar with several of Danny’s OB offerings as I have built a few of them through the  years, however I have only heard one of enclosure based offerings, the N3 tower I built for my sister several years ago.  They are very nice but I think I am looking for a little more mid bass body than those M130 drivers generated.

Best,
Ed

[EHill]

+1 I'm following this thread.

[HAL]

I've had about 6 pairs of X-LS standard speakers and even have the Encore upgrade kits in the mini-monitor cabinets. These were the AV123 built ones that now my nephews and their friends have after hearing them.  One pair is still in my living room for the simple stereo rig for my wife.  They are great speakers to me from bass up and the upgraded crossovers are a big step forward.  Demo'd the XO upgrades in original X-LS's for a group of folks about 10 years ago in comparison to their stock X-LS Encores.

The floor standing versions add a more bottom end that is very nice to have if running them full range.  With a sub, either cabinet style should work well.

For those old enough, the X-LS are to me the Dynaco A25's for the 21st century with lots of refinements.

[mlundy57]

For the 3 channel set i’d also recommend the X-MTM Encore (tower version of the X-CS Encore) for the L&R mains and the X-CS Encore center channel. If stand mounts are preferred, go with three of the X-CS Encores.

The X-Omnis are really good sounding speakers. They are very different then the Encores. The Omnis are more open and spacious like open baffle speakers. However, they need to be at least 3ft away from any wall.

Unless Danny has found a source for the deep back tweeter cups the N series speakers are still unavailable. If he has found a supply of the cups, I’d recommend the N3 towers and N3S center.

[ebag4]

I've had about 6 pairs of X-LS standard speakers and even have the Encore upgrade kits in the mini-monitor cabinets. These were the AV123 built ones that now my nephews and their friends have after hearing them.  One pair is still in my living room for the simple stereo rig for my wife.  They are great speakers to me from bass up and the upgraded crossovers are a big step forward.  Demo'd the XO upgrades in original X-LS's for a group of folks about 10 years ago in comparison to their stock X-LS Encores.

The floor standing versions add a more bottom end that is very nice to have if running them full range.  With a sub, either cabinet style should work well.

For those old enough, the X-LS are to me the Dynaco A25's for the 21st century with lots of refinements.

Thanks for that Rich.  As a point of clarification to my original post, I think my friends ultimate goal is to play full range without having to incorporate the sub.

Best,
Ed

[ebag4]

For the 3 channel set i’d also recommend the X-MTM Encore (tower version of the X-CS Encore) for the L&R mains and the X-CS Encore center channel. If stand mounts are preferred, go with three of the X-CS Encores.

The X-Omnis are really good sounding speakers. They are very different then the Encores. The Omnis are more open and spacious like open baffle speakers. However, they need to be at least 3ft away from any wall.

Unless Danny has found a source for the deep back tweeter cups the N series speakers are still unavailable. If he has found a supply of the cups, I’d recommend the N3 towers and N3S center.

Thanks Mike, I thought you had heard/built some of these other models.  So you think that the N3s have similar bass/midbass  weight as the X-MTM?

Best,
Ed

[corndog71]

Thanks for that Rich.  As a point of clarification to my original post, I think my friends ultimate goal is to play full range without having to incorporate the sub.

Best,
Ed

X-MTM for sure.  X-SLS have good mid bass too but due to the single midwoofer have limits.  I ran a pair of X-CS and they can take more abuse so to speak.  They had good midbass too but needed a sub for the lowest notes.

[mlundy57]

Thanks Mike, I thought you had heard/built some of these other models.  So you think that the N3s have similar bass/midbass  weight as the X-MTM?

Best,
Ed

Ed,

Yep, I've built them all except for the X-Statiks and I heard those in Scott's room at Lone Star.

It's been awhile since I listened to the N3s and X-MTM Encores side by side so I'm going off memory. The N3s use the smaller M-130 drivers vs the M-165s of the X-MTM Encores which might give the Encores a slight edge in in the bass/midbass area but the N3 is a transmission line design vs the ported Encore which negates some if not all of the difference between the drivers. As good as the X-MTM Encores are, especially with an upgraded crossover, my personal preference is the N3. However, unless Danny has come up with a source for the deep back cups, that's a moot point.

I would still use the sub with either floor stander. The X-MTM Encore and N3 are both -3dB around 40Hz. However, in my living room system, with room gain, my N3s are -3 around 28Hz. This sounds like no sub is needed. However, the augmented bass from room gain is a little loose and bloomy (probably not actually a word). I drive this system with a Marantz AVR and find that when I cross the N3s to the sub at 40Hz, the bass is tight and articulate and goes down to 10Hz. Granted you can't hear 10Hz but you can feel it and I have organ music and synth bass that goes down into the teens. Even if I never played anything that went below 30Hz, I'd still prefer the controlled presentation the sub provides vs the loose bass from room gain. I've listened to both full range N3s without a sub and crossed to a sub at 40Hz many times and always prefer the sub. In my N3 setup, the sub, a Rythmik Audio F12, is at the back of the room.

Mike

[ebag4]

Ed,

Yep, I've built them all except for the X-Statiks and I heard those in Scott's room at Lone Star.

It's been awhile since I listened to the N3s and X-MTM Encores side by side so I'm going off memory. The N3s use the smaller M-130 drivers vs the M-165s of the X-MTM Encores which might give the Encores a slight edge in in the bass/midbass area but the N3 is a transmission line design vs the ported Encore which negates some if not all of the difference between the drivers. As good as the X-MTM Encores are, especially with an upgraded crossover, my personal preference is the N3. However, unless Danny has come up with a source for the deep back cups, that's a moot point.

I would still use the sub with either floor stander. The X-MTM Encore and N3 are both -3dB around 40Hz. However, in my living room system, with room gain, my N3s are -3 around 28Hz. This sounds like no sub is needed. However, the augmented bass from room gain is a little loose and bloomy (probably not actually a word). I drive this system with a Marantz AVR and find that when I cross the N3s to the sub at 40Hz, the bass is tight and articulate and goes down to 10Hz. Granted you can't hear 10Hz but you can feel it and I have organ music and synth bass that goes down into the teens. Even if I never played anything that went below 30Hz, I'd still prefer the controlled presentation the sub provides vs the loose bass from room gain. I've listened to both full range N3s without a sub and crossed to a sub at 40Hz many times and always prefer the sub. In my N3 setup, the sub, a Rythmik Audio F12, is at the back of the room.

Mike

Thanks for the detailed response regarding the two Mike, that is the information I was looking for.

Best,
Ed

[S Clark]

I can speak to a bit of comparison between the the N3 and the X-Statics.  I built the AV-3 which has the same transmission line and woofers as the N3, just a different tweeter.  Personally, I like the base of the X-Static better.  They probably dig down almost as deep, but there is a difference in sound of between the TL and the sealed.  As you might expect, the sealed is a cleaner sound, and plays well by themselves like the N3's.  Mine has an OB servo to support the lower frequencies.  The X-Statics are still here, the AV-3s were sold several years back. 

[ebag4]

I can speak to a bit of comparison between the the N3 and the X-Statics.  I built the AV-3 which has the same transmission line and woofers as the N3, just a different tweeter.  Personally, I like the base of the X-Static better.  They probably dig down almost as deep, but there is a difference in sound of between the TL and the sealed.  As you might expect, the sealed is a cleaner sound, and plays well by themselves like the N3's.  Mine has an OB servo to support the lower frequencies.  The X-Statics are still here, the AV-3s were sold several years back.

Thanks for that Scott, so it sounds like a vote for going with a sealed version of the X-MTM (as much as I would like to go with the OB, I don’t think he can pull the speaker out 3’ due to Waf issues).  It would be interesting to compare the volume of the bass section of the X-Static to the X-MTM.  I’m guessing the crossover for the MTM tower and the center are different although I haven’t seen any documentation of that speaker to know for certain.

Best,
Ed

[ebag4]

X-MTM for sure.  X-SLS have good mid bass too but due to the single midwoofer have limits.  I ran a pair of X-CS and they can take more abuse so to speak.  They had good midbass too but needed a sub for the lowest notes.

Thanks corndog71, I just looked at the X-MTM on the website.  It appears while the X-SLS has the Encore treatment, the X-MTM is closer to the classic version of this series.  I wonder what that means from an overall sound standpoint?

Best,
Ed

[mlundy57]

Thanks for that Scott, so it sounds like a vote for going with a sealed version of the X-MTM (as much as I would like to go with the OB, I don’t think he can pull the speaker out 3’ due to Waf issues).  It would be interesting to compare the volume of the bass section of the X-Static to the X-MTM.  I’m guessing the crossover for the MTM tower and the center are different although I haven’t seen any documentation of that speaker to know for certain.

Best,
Ed

Ed,

The crossovers are the same. The only difference between the two builds is one is a smaller sealed box while the other is a larger ported box. I don’t have any idea how the tower version would perform without the ports.

Mike

[mlundy57]

Thanks corndog71, I just looked at the X-MTM on the website.  It appears while the X-SLS has the Encore treatment, the X-MTM is closer to the classic version of this series.  I wonder what that means from an overall sound standpoint?

Best,
Ed

Both the classic and Encore versions can be built in either monitor or tower versions.

Mike

[ebag4]

Both the classic and Encore versions can be built in either monitor or tower versions.

Mike

Right, but there doesn’t appear to be a MTM of the Encore variety unless I missed it.  I have to guess it was a conscience decision by Danny to not offer the MTM with the Peerless tweeter but to stick with the TM instead.  Hmmm, decisions decisions.

Best,
Ed

[mlundy57]

Right, but there doesn’t appear to be a MTM of the Encore variety unless I missed it.  I have to guess it was a conscience decision by Danny to not offer the MTM with the Peerless tweeter but to stick with the TM instead.  Hmmm, decisions decisions.

Best,
Ed

It’s just that the website isn’t complete. The Encores are available in all configurations.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

Ed,
If  the N3TL is of interest,  I think I ccan dig you up a pair of the deep back ups

jay