AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: Marbles on 24 Aug 2005, 01:23 am
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I like 'em. :wink:
There are no weakness's that I notice.
For others, 85DB 1W/1M might be a problem, but not for me.
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I like 'em.
There are no weakness's that I notice.
For others, 85DB 1W/1M might be a problem, but not for me.
Come on man you can do better than that :sleep: The minimum one paragraph rule applies here. :rules:
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I can't stay away from them long enough to write a paragraph.
Is there anything specifically you want to know?
I did say it was a quick review....
What's anti-buyers remorse???? I like these speakers :lol:
Really, nothing sticks out with these speakers...everything is very balanced and just sounds "right".
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You could add..."they look good.... real good"..... :hyper:
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Oh, and they look good.... real good...DAMN fine in fact :rock:
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I can't stay away from them long enough to write a paragraph.
Is there anything specifically you want to know?
I know that you are just kidding about your Quick Review :D You are a man of many words.
I am not looking for anything specific but it might be helpful to others that are considering these speakers if you could provide some more detail.
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Actually, I would love to gush all over these speakers (it actually adds to their shine :wink: ) and I could go over song by song how they played everything..the highs sounded like angles orgasming, the lows sounded like a bull getting a blow job...but that would bore everyone.
What I can say is that these guys are the most right speakers I have heard.
Nothing sticks out except it is all exceptionally great.
I have had some wonderful speakers in the past. These do "it" for me better than all the rest did.
All of the others had some very redeeming qualities, but all had some weakness that I wanted to try to improve. After a month I still haven't found any weakness's in these.
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angles orgasming, the lows sounded like a bull getting a blow job...but that would bore everyone.
Not exactly a Zybar review but funny as hell. Nice job! :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW exactly how close do you have to be to the Bull scenario to have that sound like deep bass? :P
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I like 'em. :wink:
There are no weakness's that I notice.
For others, 85DB 1W/1M might be a problem, but not for me.
Hi Marbles, sounds like you've found your nirvana ....for the time being. Congrats!
I look forward to your review once you are able to drag yourself away from your system for long enough :lol:
Meanwhile, one question .... I've read several comments around the place that the SEAS mags (and rigid drivers in general) can sound very detailed but can also tend to lack a little 'flesh on the bones' or 'body'. I realise that this may be an artifact of XO design as much as the drivers themselves, but was just wondering how you feel the HT3 performs in this aspect?
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Meanwhile, one question .... I've read several comments around the place that the SEAS mags (and rigid drivers in general) can sound very detailed but can also tend to lack a little 'flesh on the bones' or 'body'. I realise that this may be an artifact of XO design as much as the drivers themselves, but was just wondering how you feel the HT3 performs in this aspect?
Well you have to understand that my previous REF speakers were the VMPS RM40's that did suffer from the lack of flesh problem. So to me these sound meaty enough.
You should also know that on a daily basis in my office I listen to nOrh marble 9.0's that have the Scan-Speak 5.5" Revelator woofer that is a bit on the warm side.
I find the HT3's to sound just right in the meat department given those two points of reference.
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I like 'em. :wink:
Well done Marbles. The lack of audiophile hyperbole and obvious bullshit is most refreshing in a review :)
I wonder how the HT3 will compare with the ultra secret beta "BIGGEST development EVER!!! VMPS SR-71d BCSE RM40 :lol:
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BTW exactly how close do you have to be to the Bull scenario to have that sound like deep bass? :P
Well if my trip to Mexico is any indication...I'd say about 8 feet :lol:
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I like 'em. :wink:
Well done Marbles. The lack of audiophile hyperbole and obvious bullshit is most refreshing in a review :)
I wonder how the HT3 will compare with the ultra secret beta "BIGGEST development EVER!!! VMPS SR-71d BCSE RM40 :lol:
Thanks Eric.
Since I still have my RM40's, I'll withhold judgement on the VMPS until I gather more information...
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Marbles...Went back to reread the HT3 Mini Rave at Zybar's thread (to see what I had said). Got a few other words for you....likelike, smooth, detailed, dynamic, fast, full sound, good bass. Thats what I heard...I'm sure your hearing the same. They really are an all around good speaker..... 8)
And your happy....then their perfect. :wink: [/list:u]
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Marbles,
How's the HTC treating you?
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Marbles,
How's the HTC treating you?
Listening to it now with the Allman Brothers DVD.
It's very nice as well. To say I'm satisfied with it is an understatement.
Coming after the RM30 C (horizontal) that should speak volumes.
I have to say that Jim builds a GREAT cabinet, and that he did a masterful job at picking the drivers in the HT1's, the HT3's and the HTC.
He did the best picking though (IMO) when he picked Dennis Murphy to design the XO's in his speakers.
After that it's just a matter of picking the upgrades you're comfortable with.
I have to say that the speakers I listen to most on a daily basis (at the office or at home) now ALL have Dennis Murphy designed XO's and I couldn't be happier.
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angles orgasming, the lows sounded like a bull getting a blow job...but that would bore everyone.
Not exactly a Zybar review but funny as hell. Nice job! :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW exactly how close do you have to be to the Bull scenario to have that sound like deep bass? :P
Thanks for the plug Bryan. :beer:
Having lived with the HT3's for almost half a year, I fully understand why Rob can't take the time to write a more in-depth review.
You just want to enjoy the music.
George
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
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just wait till ces and the new super audio thingy that vmps will display-then you will regret not keeping your vmps stuff :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
salk speakers are artwork thats fer sure -
its also nice to find a speaker you dont want to upgrade from-you might have found the one for you marbles-
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
Better is an extremely realitive term. That said, they have been on a vmps bashing kick for a while now, so it really is nothing new. As a realitively new vmps user, it is actually pretty insulting.
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the highs sounded like angles orgasming
How does an angle orgasm anyway? Sounds like you need some room treatment! :lol: (Sorry, couldn't help myself). Glad you're digging your system.
-KJ
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
Were you are referring to comments like this?
Coming after the RM30 C (horizontal) that should speak volumes.
I take this to mean that Marbles was extremely impressed with the RM30C. The fact that he was impressed with the VMPS speaker was exactly what leant weight to his view of the Salk HTC. If the RM30C was a crappy speaker, there would be no "volumes" to be spoken - it wouldn't even be mentioned.
I haven't seen anyone "dissing" the acoustic abilities of VMPS. I have seen people that decided that a different sound or acoustic presentation was more suited to their tastes, but that doesn't mean the previous speaker wasn't great in its own right. It was obviously impressive enough that discerning audiophiles were willing to spend significant amounts of money on it. No one said VMPS is worse than BOSE, afterall! :lol: Besides, even BOSE is probably great for someone. What they have said, is that they've found a new speaker more suited to their tastes/room/gear than the VPMS speaker they liked enough to have purchased previously. Good for them!
Now, I will admit that some reviews get enthusiastic, but what do you expect? This is audio! :lol: An audiophile is going to be at least as excited about their new toy as anyone else, and when they write a review, they have to compare it to something - what more appropriate choice than the item you just replaced?
Audio is relative and subjective. There is no perfect system, even for a single person, let alone everyone (although I now see that we have two "BIGGEST developements EVER" competing for this meaningless and nonexistent title). Hearing changes, budgets change, tastes change... as long as you like your gear, why worry that someone that used to prefer your choice above all others now prefers something else?
Now that I reread this, it does look a bit like a lecture, and I apologize for that, as it wasn't meant to... I had to deal with a greater than usually amount of idiocy at work today, and I guess I was feeling philosophical! Nothing to see here... move along...
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Now that I reread this, it does look a bit like a lecture, and I apologize for that, as it wasn't meant to... I had to deal with a greater than usually amount of idiocy at work today, and I guess I was feeling philosophical! Nothing to see here... move along...
Sounded pretty good to me...
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Well said :!:
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Just to be perfectly clear...the VMPS RM30 C (horizontal) was the most perfect center channel I have heard. If it wasn't for the fact that it didn't match up with the HT3's, I would have it still.
The HTC is a GREAT center channel that does match up to the HT3's. The HTC is very close to the VMPS RM30 in center channel quality.
Bob, if you would like me to elaborate on the meat on the bones comment I would be happy to, in fact the new upgrade that JC has alluded to seems to improve this particular weakness.
As mentioned the RM40's are a wonderful speaker, but I did notice some weakness's.
So far I haven't noticed any with the HT3's.
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
Bob,
There isn't any negativity in this thread and we aren't dissing VMPS. It is just that a bunch of us have found something we feel is better. When we talk about the Salk speakers we are putting our comments in context by comparing them to our previous reference speakers which just happened to be VMPS.
Why can't you deal with that and not constantly jump in and feel the need to defend VMPS products?
I didn't see you or other VMPS owners gettting upset when we were saying VMPS was better than "x" or "y". Enjoy your speakers and just relax.
George
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Better is an extremely realitive term. That said, they have been on a vmps bashing kick for a while now, so it really is nothing new. As a realitively new vmps user, it is actually pretty insulting.
What is insulting?
Not looking to pick a fight, but I don't understand your post.
George
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
Better is an extremely realitive term. That said, they have been on a vmps bashing kick for a while now, so it really is nothing new. As a realitively new vmps user, it is actually pretty insulting.
I still own the RM40's. I think I have tried to be very truthfull about their positive qualities and any perceived weakness's.
Alum, you have very good speakers, it is my wish that you are able to enjoy them for a very long time....
In fact it is their strengths that keeps me from trying very hard to sell them. For instance, I have listed them on AC, but not on Agon.
The fact that I have a speaker that I like better does not mean I think any less of the VMPS.
The fact that I point out potential weakness's should only mean that people should take this into consideration when they audition the speaker.
As an example, I mentioned the ineffeciencies of the HT3's.
I have also mentioned that another drawback is the long time from order to receiveing the Salks. If you are fine with this then that's great.
If you are fine with the VMPS ribbons not sounding as "meaty" as some other speakers, that's cool too. It did not bother me when they were my ref speakers. In fact if yoou use some tube components, then you can overcome this very easily.
The fact that I mention shortcomings again is only so that prespective buyers are aware, and can take the info into consideration and not to run down a product.
As Zybar has mentioned, the previous speaker that one has is usually the one that a person uses for comparisons. In my case the previous speaker is also one I currently own. It is natural then for me to compare the two.
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Hi All,
I don't mean to jump in and interupt the direction this thread is going but I would love to hear a comparison between the actual presentation of the RM40's and HT3's. The RM40's being a quasi-line source and the HT3 being a point source really puts these at different ends of the spectrum. Do the speakers present the image height and event environment in a completely different manner?
I ask as I am building a line array and would love to hear some comparisons as to the differences with a truly great speaker such as Jim Salk's.
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Line arrays will be a different animal and I would not want to try to compare them to the speakers mentioned above.
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Hi All,
I don't mean to jump in and interupt the direction this thread is going but I would love to hear a comparison between the actual presentation of the RM40's and HT3's. The RM40's being a quasi-line source and the HT3 being a point source really puts these at different ends of the spectrum. Do the speakers present the image height and event environment in a completely different manner?
I ask as I am building a line array and would love to hear some comparisons as to the differences with a truly great speaker such as Jim Salk's.
Goskers,
The RM40 is not even close to a line array. It is a WMTMW design, like the Dunlavy and PBN Montana speakers. Think of it as two point source speakers sitting atop each other, with the top one "upside down". This is not just an analogy as the original RM40 was basically two RM2 in this configuration (of course in a unified cabinet).
RMX probably could be considered a quasi line array, and it indeed is such from ~ 250hz to ~ 6khz. Above and below that range it is a point source. If you have a lot of patience and some equipment to make objective measurements, or a truly gifted ear, you may be able to get good integration of the three sections at a particular listening distance by adjusting the L-pads and tweeter inclination. And then there is the magic putty :wink:
You're making a good decision to go with a line array. I was very close to having a custom array built by Jim Salk (with subs from Chris Groh) and may still do so in the future.
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
Better is an extremely realitive term. That said, they have been on a vmps bashing kick for a while now, so it really is nothing new. As a realitively new vmps user, it is actually pretty insulting.
While I don't think I have dissed VMPS, since I own them and have for at least two years, I think I have the right to.
Since I don't see where I have, please point it out.
If you think that my "meat" comment was off base, then why do you think BC provided the mid bass upgrade? Why do you think JC has alluded to an increase in this area with the new super deluxe CES 2006 teaser?
Pointing out weakness's is not dissing...it's being honest...but I can understand if some can't handle the truth.
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Goskers,
The RM40 is not even close to a line array. It is a WMTMW design, like the Dunlavy and PBN Montana speakers. Think of it as two point source speakers sitting atop each other, with the top one "upside down". This is not just an analogy as the original RM40 was basically two RM2 in this configuration (of course in a unified cabinet).
RMX probably could be considered a quasi line array, and it indeed is such from ~ 250hz to ~ 6khz. Above and below that range it is a point source. If you ha ...
There is quite a bit of confusion in the marketplace about what constitutes a line array. Some of the problem is the marketing hype that some companies use. Just because you have a design with multiple woofers and a tweeter doesn't mean you have an array; in fact, such a design is not even close to having the properties of a true array. I've built designs like this and can verify that.
The main problem with using a small number of tweeters or midranges is that you'll end up with neither a line array wavelaunch or point source. Driver interference patterns of such a design will result in poor vertical response and bad integration with other drivers in the system.
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Why is there such negativity toward VMPS? You all enjoyed your VMPS speakers while you had them. Even if Salk produces a better speaker (which I assume is true), there's no reason to diss VMPS.
There's more to this than just the issue of the performance of the RM40 versus the HT3. If you privately ask some of those involved you may get to hear the rest of the story. I've heard both and as a biased 3rd party I can tell you IMHO that the HT3 is by far the better speaker.
There was an interesting thread at Audio Asylum recently where several audiophiles listed the speakers that they've owned over the years. Some of the lists showed a progression that reflected upgrades in performance. Others showed mostly lateral moves not unlike picking different flavors at Baskin Robbins. A few were loyal to a particular brand but most had purchased from several different companies.
As I looked at the results it was difficult to draw a conclusion. I do think that many people switch because they want something different. Sometimes that means a better speaker, sometimes not. Much of it I believe is dependent on what you've been exposed to. If all you've ever heard is what Best Buy sells then that is your reference until you hear something really good.
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I still own the RM40's. I think I have tried to be very truthfull about their positive qualities and any perceived weakness's.
Alum, you have very good speakers, it is my wish that you are able to enjoy them for a very long time....
In fact it is their strengths that keeps me from trying very hard to sell them. For instance, I have listed them on AC, but not on Agon.
The fact that I have a speaker that I like better does not mean I think any less of the VMPS.
The fact that I point out potentia ...
What exactly are you referring to when you talk about "meat." Can you describe it for me a little?
D-----
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I don't want to get into it in an HT3 thread.
It should be done in an RM40 thread on the VMPS forum were BC will feel welcome to join in...
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If all you've ever heard is what Best Buy sells then that is your reference until you hear something really good
I went from hearing "Best Buy" speakers to visiting a shop in Birmingham, Alabama called Audio Forest. I heard some Jm Lab Grand Utopias hooked to about $20k worth of Conrad-Johnson gear and since then Ive never heard anything that even came close. It was the first time that I listened to music and got goose bumps and my wife (she was just my girlfriend at the time) was with me and wanted to hear her Sade CD. Let me first say she had grown tired of listening to speakers and was just ready for me to buy something or give up. When she heard her CD on this system she told me that she would continue to audition speakers with me until we got as close to that sound as we could in our budget.
Anyway, when Im older and much much richer, Id like to get goosebumps again.
Tim
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I disagree and agree with Rick. :mrgreen:
Just because you have a design with multiple woofers and a tweeter doesn't mean you have an array
An orderly line of anything can be an array. It doesn't mean that it is a line source or will have line source characteristics, but it is an array.
Then here is the part I agree with.
There's more to this than just the issue of the performance of the RM40 versus the HT3. If you privately ask some of those involved you may get to hear the rest of the story. I've heard both and as a biased 3rd party I can tell you IMHO that the HT3 is by far the better speaker.
I don't even have to hear them both to agree with that one.
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I disagree and agree with Rick. :mrgreen:
I don't even have to hear them both to agree with that one.
Go back and read Dr. Griffin's paper for the definition of line arrays and line sources :roll:
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Go back and read Dr. Griffin's paper for the definition of line arrays and line sources
Hey, anybody can make their own definitions up.
Try reading one from Websters. An ARRAY can be an orderly line of ANYTHING.
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Time out guys....please take this outside so no furniture get's broken :wink:
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Oh Marbles, were fine. We don't break stuff anymore. :wink: