Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013

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George3

P&T,


Having attended the RMAF for many years and with this year being no
exception, I always enjoy your musings, photos and impressions of the
many rooms you visited.  This year, I cannot help being struck by the
fact that your selections for "best of show", out of the hundred plus
exhibitions, are most overwhelmingly selected from your site sponsors.

Throw out some super high-end players such as TAD and MBL and several
non-competitive players (to your site sponsors) and it becomes rather
obvious that the co-inkeydink is anything but.  Surely, should any
audio publication or web site have incurred such skewed statistics
they would, no doubt, raise eyebrows as mine were raised upon reading
your results.

I am most fully aware that these are your personal findings and while
I do not take issue with any specific selection per say, I do believe
that when results are so blatantly lopsided in this manner it only
calls to question your agenda and objectivity.

While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.

Rick Craig

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  • Selah Audio
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Thanks for your comments on the Ottavo. As a sidenote, all of the demo material I brought consisted of wave files ripped from CD's. Ryan wanted to use Spotify in case someone requested music that we didn't have (or that they didn't have on CD with them). I told him that MP3's were not the way to go but some tracks actually sounded better than I expected.  :)

DaveC113

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George3,  I think being a site sponsor is likely to get you a visit from other members of AC because we communicate on this website and it's nice to meet the folks IRL. Also, you will notice a lot of manufacturers who are represented on AC and many that are praised here sell direct to the public with no middleman, which means they can offer a value for the money that competitors using a traditional distribution model can't match. And, if someone is willing to start down such a path, they are usually convinced they have something of value to offer and are staking their business on it. So, it's no surprise to me that many of the best systems and best value for the money come from small manufacturers who sell direct, and many of those manufacturers do happen to have a forum on AC because it helps get the word out on their product... many small direct-sales manufacturers don't have the cash to throw around for advertising either. So in conclusion I agree with you, but it's not because of bias, it's because there are a lot of very high quality direct-sales manufacturers on Audiocircle.


dflee

Was PI Audio represented in the GR room? Who's speaker wire was used and what IC?

AJinFLA

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  • Soundfield Audio Loudspeakers
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While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.
Hmmm, I better pony up, or maybe send them checks directly (hey, Duke mentioned it)?
That or Tyson could create a "Chopper Liver" or "Best of the Nobody's" category.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. the above may have been said tongue firmly planted in cheek (and clearly the free beer thing didn't work).

dBe

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    • PI audio group, LLC
Congrats to GR and Dodd on their outstanding sound. But one vendor in that room is not credited and I'm certain contributed a lot to the overall beauty of the sound. Please don't forget that the system was powered with Triode Wire Labs cables.

Congrats Triode Pete!
I wish I could have been at the show this year in our room.  I miss seeing Danny, Eric, Pete, Gary and all of the friends that we've made over the years.

To read about the sound at the show and not being immersed in it is a bummer.   :?

Thanks to Tyson and Pez, too.  Always a hoot to talk to and they never pull punches...  I liked the Wilson review.  Same suckey attitude as last year.

Lou always has a good sounding room and I really was looking forward to the Vapor Audio room.  Duke...  Awesome!

Next year, God Willing!.

Dave

Pez

P&T,


Having attended the RMAF for many years and with this year being no
exception, I always enjoy your musings, photos and impressions of the
many rooms you visited.  This year, I cannot help being struck by the
fact that your selections for "best of show", out of the hundred plus
exhibitions, are most overwhelmingly selected from your site sponsors.

Throw out some super high-end players such as TAD and MBL and several
non-competitive players (to your site sponsors) and it becomes rather
obvious that the co-inkeydink is anything but.  Surely, should any
audio publication or web site have incurred such skewed statistics
they would, no doubt, raise eyebrows as mine were raised upon reading
your results.

I am most fully aware that these are your personal findings and while
I do not take issue with any specific selection per say, I do believe
that when results are so blatantly lopsided in this manner it only
calls to question your agenda and objectivity.

While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.

George lets clear a few things up. First I want to just put it out there that I find this HIGHLY insulting. Second I would like to also point out that historically speaking we haven't always visited audiocircle vendors and guess what? We got massive MASSIVE shit for that. So we're in a no win situation with guys like you.

All that said I want to clear up some of the misinformation you posted. First Tyson and Pez are just that, two dudes posting impressions on the internet at an audio website. We have NO sponsors. The only 'vested interest' we have in this site is that it continues to be around and a great place. Beyond that we get no money or incentive otherwise to do what we do, we do NOT coordinate any of this with any other site member other than people who ask us to visit this room and that room (actual members not vendors).

Sometimes I feel like people have the memory of goldfish, but I'll put it out there anyway. We have been under fire in previous years for absolutely trashing what we've heard from AC vendors. Just last year there was some controversy in regards to an AC vendor and in previous years we've inadvertently started all out war. 

As far as us 'preferring' to visit AC vendors I can say in all honesty that yes, yes we do prefer visiting AC vendors. I would rather walk into an AC vendors room any show than a Wilson, MBL, or YG room. Because the AC vendors actually have a shared history with us. They are guys that I personally have known for years. They are guys we go to dinner with (and yes we pay our own bill so don't act like this is some sort of "AH HA!!! you are benefiting finically!!!!")  And lets face it, AC vendors are manufacturers that actually put themselves out there and make themselves available the way that other rooms either cannot or do not. They are great people, yes I actually go to the show just to see some of them. It's about having fun not about filling some sort of agenda, which I think I have empirically demonstrated we do not have.

Last but not least, let me just say it again. I am posting my impressions of rooms that I visited. I'm just a guy, with no vested interest in any of this, posting what I am not getting paid to post because I want to bring something to this community. Same with Tyson, same with DaveC and same with Standub or ANY other member past present or future who post here. And they all get stickied to the top of this forum because all their opinions (as well as yours or anyone else's) are equally as valid as mine.

And to the rest of you guys posting your many many thanks I appreciate that so much! That is the ONLY reason I do this.

Rant over.

Pez

Quote
While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.

One last thing, actually 'at minimum' we did not visit all the AC vendors. We missed quite a few. Immediately Bryston and Von Schweikert come to mind.

Again we (meaning Tyson and me) have no sponsors.

Oh and I forgot to ask you George, what exactly is your agenda?

Occam

...
King Audio, Shaker Audio


Very impressive system. Best Stat setup I have heard at this show ever period.

All connected via a loom of Kaplan Cable.
Just say'n....

Pez

noted.

Duke

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Or worse yet, having the host stand in front of the speaker while trying to listen (oddly enough, it was in the "uber king best of the best" AudioKinesis room).  I would think that one is in the demo room 101 manual somewhere, but perhaps they mistook it for room treatments.

Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing this out!  My apologies for being inconsiderate towards the most important people in the room - those who came in to listen.  I also talked too much in the back of the room during the music.   Obviously I need to be professional about the presentation side of things.

Vinnie R.

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Well, Tyson and Pez clearly DO have an "agenda" because they didn't come to my room!   :evil:

Oh, wait.... I wasn't there this year.  :green: :rotflmao:

Looking forward to RWAF 2014, and I enjoyed reading Tyson, Pez, and DaveC's coverage here
on AC.  I know its a lot of work not only visiting the rooms taking pictures, taking notes - but also posting
here and being actively involved.  That fact that they do it, with no financial interests at all, shows their
love of this hobby.

Vinnie

KJ

Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing this out!  My apologies for being inconsiderate towards the most important people in the room - those who came in to listen.  I also talked too much in the back of the room during the music.   Obviously I need to be professional about the presentation side of things.

No worries.  Your speaks still sounded pretty darn good.   :thumb:

James Romeyn

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  • James Romeyn Music and Audio, LLC
    • James Romeyn Music and Audio, LLC
Thank you Pez and Tyson for being the hardest working pair of audio fanatics at RM.  Congratulations to Ryan (Vapor Audio) and Dannie (GR Research). 

A show attendee/respected AC contributor told me that Pez and Tyson's show report reached such viral levels that one of the two most influential print rags offered them (heaven forbid) money, which they promptly refused, knowing it would permanently and negatively impact their work.  IOW, you can't actually buy such quality work even if you wanted to.

I will setup Dream Maker LCS here with Paul Weitzel modded Sony CDP (circa $1500) and Dr. Earl Geddes' old receiver reference (Pioneer 912, $125 used + my passive mods).  I'm anxious to compare performance in this room/system vs. RMAF.  Several visitors wondered what would be Dream Maker LCS performance with affordable front end. 

I spoke with Duke about a get-together here at my house.  We would all like to invite persons interested in Dream Maker LCS to a Tea Tasting Party/Dream Maker LCS demo.  There will be wide variety of "Two Bite" sandwiches, scones, and semi-decadent deserts here in Providence, Utah, seventy-five minutes NE of Salt Lake City.  We'll post date later at AudioKinesis' circle. 

My Berndt-Empire 208-Strain Gauge rig is down.  If enough vinyl junkies raise their hand I'll make LP a priority. 

dBe

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    • PI audio group, LLC
Was PI Audio represented in the GR room? Who's speaker wire was used and what IC?
Oh, yeah.  I was certainly bummed about not being able to go due to Gayle's Dad's health (still alive... amazing!!!!!), but my products were there is abundance:

UberBUSS with an early Mongo power cable for the subs
BatteryBUSSes for the MacMini and the DAC
USB cables, etc...
Greg's PI audio group diffusers (Mr.Ts and ABB Ones)

;and some other top secret stuff in development

With the impending surgery and other family issues, it was a hard decision to stay home, but one that had to be made.

Next year!

Dave

dBe

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  • Posts: 2181
    • PI audio group, LLC
Well, Tyson and Pez clearly DO have an "agenda" because they didn't come to my room!   :evil:

Oh, wait.... I wasn't there this year.  :green: :rotflmao:

Looking forward to RWAF 2014, and I enjoyed reading Tyson, Pez, and DaveC's coverage here
on AC.  I know its a lot of work not only visiting the rooms taking pictures, taking notes - but also posting
here and being actively involved.  That fact that they do it, with no financial interests at all, shows their
love of this hobby.

Vinnie
Vinnie.  See you there next year  :thumb:

Dave

rbbert

Not only am I not "sponsored", I don't "review" either.  But guess what, at both of the last two RAMFs I attended (2011 and 2012) AC manufacturers had a number of the best sounding and most enjoyable rooms in the show.

George3

Pez,


Let me immediately be clear and emphatically state that I have no connection, affiliation or financial interest in the audio industry.  I am but a humble audiophile.

I did not state, nor did I imply that you or Tyson were in anyway on the "take" and I am very well aware that you are providing this service, as you have done in past years, as a free service. 

My point, as I stated, was that of all the many manufacturers at the show an inordinate number of best in show just happen to be site sponsors.  I also fully understand when you say that you prefer to visit and commensurate with AC vendors as you have a shared history with them.  Perhaps then, these skewed results are just a statistical anomaly and I should just leave it at that.

Let me also just say that I am a huge supporter and admirer of our cottage audio entrepreneurs many of whom are in fact site sponsors.  I have greatly benefited from their direct sales to the public, their willingness to personally assist and resolve audio issues. Furthermore, I also appreciate and understand full well the role AC provides these manufacturers as a venue to the audio world.

Perhaps, therefore, the issue becomes one of the title used.  You clearly state Pez & Tyson's "Best of RMAF" which of course very quickly gets converted to AC Best in Show.  In your preface to your post you mentioned the 100 Miss America contestants, 70 of whom never got a chance.  Reminds me of an old Russian proverb, Life is tough and then you die. 

jhm731

To clear up any confusion, here is my full review of the Wilson room

Mahalo for clearing things up.

Since you didn't get in, here's a little video clip for your enjoyment. 8)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152256387992656&set=vb.297880472655&type=2&theater

taoggniklat

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I visit AC rooms because I am treated as a friend and not sized up based on my wallet size. I can go hang out, have fun and listen to some tunes on some really nice stuff.

And having "toured" rmaf with T&P, I can attest that the best of RMAF is not at all based on who is AC. AC just happens to have several amazing vendors that know how to make their products shine in a horrible environment.

I didn't get to go to many rooms this year as I was only there for 3 hours or so.

As far as my favorites:
TAD always engages me. I could listen to those systems all day long and be happy. Plus Andrew is entertaining by himself.

MBL - I never thought I would like them but this year I enjoyed them for the most part. There were some tracks that lots the soundstage and it was just a big wall of sound. However, they played some really fantastic tracks at the end of the day and the sound was big and engaging. I liked the reel to reel player grooving with MJ's Billie Jean.

GR Research - I thought it sounded good, just didn't connect with me. I am not a fan of the line array type. It didnt sound bad, just not my thing I guess. I prefer the sound of the Super V's.

I always like Salk. I wish that Jim would branch out and partner with some other electronics sometime. AVA is a great bargain but I think there are other options out there that bring the Salks to life even more. Plus the Salk family is just fun to hang out and share pics of the kids while listening to great music. The white ebony Veracity ST's were beautiful.

Daedulus sounded fantastic once again.

Improved room:
MSB Technology - just to put it out there, I used to work for MSB so obviously I have vested interest and bias. I always try to give them my own feedback on how to improve their setup and last year was a total disaster. The partnership with YG Acoustics didnt work out and the sound was just bad. I know MSB products so I knew it wasn't them (my bias of course!). I am not a fan of the big flat panel speakers, but they actually sounded pretty good this year. Much improved.

I was not nearly as impressed with Acoustic Zen this year. They always have good sounding rooms but this year, it lacked something.

I love Fritz. But this year I just couldn't hear what I loved about it. Maybe it was the time of day or whatever, it just didnt sound good to me. Which sucks because I love Fritz. Past years they have always been great. Maybe I am just getting old.

I wish I had more time to visit more places. I would liked to have hit the Vapor rooms and a few others but simply ran out of time.