[jonbee]

I had happily owned a pair of 626s and a N.O. sub for a couple of years. About 3 years ago household decor issues (my condo living room shares all duties, and my wife is very particular) prompted a move to Thiel 3.6s (the RM30 hadn't arrived, and the RM40, etc. were too large). I've loved every minute I've listened to the Thiels; I consider them to be a landmark real world conventional (cone and box) speaker, certainly the best of many I've owned, but Brian sent me a demo RM30C pair and I was knocked out. The RM30 has very high WAF, and sound that is a definite refinement compared to my older version 626s. They maintain all the best traits of the 3.6s- balance, integration, and harmonic rightness, while moving the resolving power up greatly, like going from M to row B. The high end is also more extended, detailed, and natural. The CDWG: amazing. My wife listens sitting on a couch, about 40 degrees off center, outside the right speaker, and the balance there is nearly indistinguishable from on axis. All this is without any real downside. The bass is not as deep but is more defined, and I've pressed a little Sunfire sub, x'd over at 30 hz., 36 db/octave slope, into service. Combined with the RM 30 the bass is deeper and more defined than the flat-to-28 hz. 3.6s. If I wasn't living in a condo, and had the room, the VMPS subs are much better, but I can only squeeze the 11" square Sunfire in without hearing screams from the wife.

I wrote a little first take on AA:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/238163.html

Bottom line, after about 12 hours of listening, I ordered a pair in piano rosewood. I think this is the ultimate "real world", wife-ready speaker.
Am I pumped? Does the pope **** in the woods?

[Tirade]

Hey Jonbee, LTNS!

You were a big reason that I purchased a pair of 626r's from Wayne a few years back. Your reviews, knowledge and experience lead to me buying a pair and then you sorta "vanished". Glad to see you are still kicking.

Tim

[John Casler]

Hi Jonbee,

Welcome back!

It is true the RM30 is a landmark speaker, putting a lot of performance into a WAF package.

It can play "up" and it can play "down" to almost any level.  That is, it CAN play loud and clear, or in the confines of apartment or condo living, it can provide very rich and full sonics even with the volume turned down.

I many times read your comments on Harmonic Discord and always felt "this guy GETS IT", because you knew what to listen for, and how it was supposed to sound.

Again, welcome back, hope to see you posting about your sonic adventures.

[Bill Baker]

Hello jonbee, I recall seeing some of this information a while back. I am curious as to what amplification you are using.
 I have been intrigued by the VMPS speakers for some time now and as my capabilities allow, I am seriously considering bringing in a pair of the RM30s for use in evaluating various tube amplifier designs I will be releasing in the forthcoming months. (I like to have various speakers around for this purpose).
 I have a few customers running various VMPS speakers and simply must have a pair based on all the feedback they have provided me.
 This would allow potential consumers in my area a place to audition these speakers as well providing me opportunity to better voice some of the amplifiers for them so I can be on the same page with VMPS owners.

[jonbee]

Thanks, guys.
My big rig has been pretty stable for 3 years. I was quite pleased with the sound of it; Brian's offer of a review demo woke me from my slumber.
I'd mostly been trading a LOT of small stand mounts for my bedroom and office systems and reviewing them on AA. (Current faves: Silverline SR11 for quality, and for budget goods, the Energy RC10).
I follow this board, but as a non-combatant have had little to say about all the VMPS activity.
The RM30s had been at the top of my short list of candidates, along with Merlin VSM-M(whatever) and the Thiel 3.7s for future consideration. I'm glad I waited; the oxo, new finishes and cdwg are great improvements to the breed.
After hearing the RM30, I seriously doubt those other two can outperform the RMs, in the context of my own preferences, and the price makes them THE bargain among top quality contenders.
My hat is off to Brian again- I've admired his work for over 30 years. He's one of those few that has really advanced the art over the long haul.
I'm using a PS Audio PCA2 pre and a modestly modded HCA2 as an amp. The sound is pretty good. For me the small size, cool running and ability to easily handle brutal loads (like the Thiels- 3 ohms average, 2.4 ohm low 86db/w/m  sens.) while sounding smooth and neutral has kept me happy with them. I'm sure there many better amps.
The transparency of the RM30 should make them a good tool for voicing amps. They are exceptionally neutral, and not the least bit "hi-fi"-ish.

[WEEZ]

I have stated this on another forum...but it bears repeating here...(in so many words..)

The RM30's I listened to in the Bolder room at RMAF were among the top 3 or 4 speakers that made music sound natural and real at the show regardless of cost. And it certainly didn't hurt one bit to have them hooked up to Bill Bakers' fully tricked-out amplifier, either.

jonbee, you done good!

WEEZ

[Zheeeem]

I have stated this on another forum...but it bears repeating here...(in so many words..)

The RM30's I listened to in the Bolder room at RMAF were among the top 3 or 4 speakers that made music sound natural and real at the show regardless of cost. And it certainly didn't hurt one bit to have them hooked up to Bill Bakers' fully tricked-out amplifier, either.

jonbee, you done good!

WEEZ

WEEZ - I know you've been lusting after Van Alstine electronics.  I just want to let you know that the top-of-the line AVA stuff and the RM30Ms sound absolutely phenomenal together.  Jim

[jonbee]

I just posted a little interim assessment on AA.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/238427.html

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Let's see how many flames I get from this!

[John Casler]

I just posted a little interim assessment on AA.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/238427.html

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Let's see how many flames I get from this!

Hi jonbee,

What a great write up, and worth more than any "magazine" review in my opinion.

I would hope you wouldn't get any heat (flames) for such a reasonable assessment, based on your preferences and experiences.

[mcrespo71]

I just posted a little interim assessment on AA.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/238427.html

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Let's see how many flames I get from this!

I don't know why someone would flame that?  Very reasonable review.

[zybar]

I just posted a little interim assessment on AA.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/238427.html

I know I'm preaching to the choir here. Let's see how many flames I get from this!

I don't know why someone would flame that?  Very reasonable review.

Mike,

Whenever you say something like this:

THIS IS THE BEST SOUND I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY HOME IN 38 YEARS IN THIS HOBBY

Somebody is going to disagree and possibly flame away (especially when VMPS is in the mix over at AA)

Debating about what somebody else thinks is the best sound in THEIR system to THEIR ears seems rather stupid, silly, and childish.  Of course that never stopped anybody before!   

Jonbee, glad you are enjoying the RM 30's and that you found speakers that please you so much.

Happy listening.

George

[Brian Cheney]

OK, George, wanna be the next beta tester?  I've never heard your Salk HT3's but everybody likes them.  Now that our cosmetics are up to snuff, maybe you'd like to post your own comparitive review of the RM 30's.

You sure have the amp now to make them sing.

[Zheeeem]

OK, George, wanna be the next beta tester?  I've never heard your Salk HT3's but everybody likes them.  Now that our cosmetics are up to snuff, maybe you'd like to post your own comparitive review of the RM 30's.

You sure have the amp now to make them sing.

I was sorely tempted to buy the HT-3s but went with the RM30s.  Both have a small but fanatical following.  And because I have Van Alstine electronics and Frank is a Salk-raver, they were especially tempting.  They look outrageously good.

A few things sold me on the RM30s - I like the design of the narrow-front/side firing woofer.  AP does it well, and I was hoping (correctly, as it turns out) that Big B would execute it well.  I also like the idea that Big B designs and builds his own drivers and XOs.  It just seems to me that the more a designer puts into execution, the better his stuff will be.  Having corresponded with both Jim and Big B, it became abundantly clear that B is waaaaaaay more nuts than Jim, which I, personally, think is important.  And, I understand B's design philosophy (and mainly agree).  Not sure I understand Jim's philosophy.  But damn, his speakers do look good!!!

Also I just don't like metal drivers.  I had a pair of Yamaha NS-1000s once.  Some folks think they're great, but I thought that they well and truly sucked.  Rang like a bell.

I didn't audition either.  So I would really like to read a comparison.  It wouldn't change my mind, though - I know that I picked the best speaker.

Did I mention that I thought the Salks look really good?

[Eugene2]

THe RM30M OXO are certainly a great speaker.  I have owned many, most of the Thiels from 03a to 3.6, Avalons, Legacy Focus, Dynaudio and Talon Firebird Diamonds.  All of these speakers did some things extraordinarily well, especially the Talons, but the 30s compete at every level.  While they cannot compete from a dynamic standpoint with the Talons they play music extremely well.  I am a sax player and the 30s get my instrument right, especially the way they energize a room.  I am continuously tweaking my setup, I am having the most trouble getting the larger sub right (Klaus from Odyssey says he likes the 30m's without the sub).  Everyone that has heard them is extremely impressed, so much so two of my buddies bought HT setups.  They listened to my other systems and never committed, they committed right away to VMPS.  Anyway I think they compete with anything on the planet and I have heard most!

[John Casler]

THe RM30M OXO are certainly a great speaker.  I have owned many, most of the Thiels from 03a to 3.6, Avalons, Legacy Focus, Dynaudio and Talon Firebird Diamonds.  All of these speakers did some things extraordinarily well, especially the Talons, but the 30s compete at every level.  While they cannot compete from a dynamic standpoint with the Talons they play music extremely well.  I am a sax player and the 30s get my instrument right, especially the way they energize a room.  I am continuously tweaking my setup, I am having the most trouble getting the larger sub right (Klaus from Odyssey says he likes the 30m's without the sub).  Everyone that has heard them is extremely impressed, so much so two of my buddies bought HT setups.  They listened to my other systems and never committed, they committed right away to VMPS.  Anyway I think they compete with anything on the planet and I have heard most!

As far as "getting the subs" right, there are two key issues to integration:

1) Don't crossover or "blend" too high.  The less frequencies created by both the sub and the mains, the better.  I would suggest starting at 30-35Hz, and experimenting downward. Do not be afraid to use the sub(s) crossing or filtering down in the 20's

2) The sub needs to be in the came "firing plane" as the Mains.  If it is out in some corner or in some way "behind" the mains, you will need some very sophisticated electronics to create a good blending.

My assumption is that you play the RM30's full range, and blend the subs.

[Eugene2]

Thanks for the reply, my room is only 13 across (using the short wall firing down into a 34ft length) so I placed the sub behind the left speaker near the corner.  I didn't think I should place it between the speakers and it was very tight on the outside.  Also, I read one of your other blogs and placed it on it's side on top of an Auralex sub platform firing across the room.

[James Romeyn]

I absolutely respect any differing opinions.

This is my personal experience.  The only way to listen to 30s w/ a sub is to high-pass x the 30s.

I worked at the Record Plant North, w/ a moderate size control room & custom speakers: each of the four corners had dual 15" pro JBL w/ a huge horn lens, biamped & active xo w/ 300WRMS.  I worked w/ Sly Stone, who every time he walked in simply strutted over to the level control & stretched for the sky.  My buddy owns this system

I think, in a domestic enviornment, biamped w/a sub as stated above, the 30s are darn close in dynamics to anything I've experienced. 

High-pass crossing them hugely increases the dynamic envelope.  It's easy in my experience to mimic an active 1st order high-pass xo by simply inserting a speaker-xo-type non-polarized cap at the amp input in series: Try starting at .047mF.  .01mF values can be added, then finally .001mF values for final fine tuning.  The larger the value the lower the xo pole.  In my case, I was using a seperate amp on the 30s 6.5".  This is ideal because the caps will not deteriote the ribbon performance.  I believe excess overlap will occur in every case of fullrange 30s (any vintage/model) + a sub.

The high-pass will allow you to tune out your 8' (or other height) ceiling mode.     

Contrary to advice above, I got perfect blending w/ the 30s high-pass x'd in a processor at 140 Hz!  This is largely because of some huge & terrible modes way before my extensive acousic upgrades.  The sub low-pass pole was somewhere way below that, maybe 65 Hz but can't remember exactly.  Do not, I repeat, do not be afraid to try very high high-pass poles.  Also, perfect blending in this fashion w/ the sub in the right corner behind the right 30, though that sub had computerized eq & microphone & continuous phase control.

[Eugene2]

A quick story about Sly Stone, when I was a kid (around 15 or 16) my band was the house band at one of NY's most famous clubs of the early 70's the Cheetah.  We played around such greats as James Brown (who was a regular visiting artist), Junior Walker and the Allstars, etc.   Anyway one Saturday before going to sound check we stopped at Manny's Music, where we generally got a lot of respect from the sales staff, well that Saturday all the sales guys were crowded around some guy.  While the excitement was going on we were patiently waiting for someone to assist us. One of the sales guys finally came over to get us and intoduce us to the man, it was Sly shopping keyboards.  Our bass player Garth ran up to Sly and said "Sly, Sly where are you playing?"   Sly pushed him out of the way and said we ain't playin' we're recordin'!  So much for our celebrity!

Anyway, I will try both options.  Thanks for the help.               

[John Casler]

I absolutely respect any differing opinions.

Contrary to advice above, I got perfect blending w/ the 30s high-pass x'd in a processor at 140 Hz!  This is largely because of some huge & terrible modes way before my extensive acousic upgrades.  The sub low-pass pole was somewhere way below that, maybe 65 Hz but can't remember exactly.  Do not, I repeat, do not be afraid to try very high high-pass poles.  Also, perfect blending in this fashion w/ the sub in the right corner behind the right 30, though that sub had computerized eq & microphone & continuous phase control.

Hi Jim,

I don't think your experience is "contrary" to what I suggested.  I was talking about the RM30M's full range, with sub low pass filtered.

You, unless I misread, are using the RM30C, and both high passing and low passing.

That would mean your RM30C's are high passed, NO?

[zybar]

OK, George, wanna be the next beta tester?  I've never heard your Salk HT3's but everybody likes them.  Now that our cosmetics are up to snuff, maybe you'd like to post your own comparitive review of the RM 30's.

You sure have the amp now to make them sing.

Brian,

Thank you for the offer, but I will have to pass.

George