First stab at a turntable since the 70's.

Bigload · « **on:** 26 Jul 2011, 01:33 am »

I have been lurking around here and reading on line reviews to try and zero in on a complete turntable set up between $1500 and $2000. I am a complete novice here and am just picking up a few tidbits from what I read. I hate to sink a ton of cash into this since it really is a bit of an experiment for me. I had somewhat zeroed in on a Marantz TT 15S1 as it was within my budget, had decent reviews, came with what appeared to be a decent arm and MM Clearaudio Virtuoso wood cartridge rated at 3.6mV. (Sounded good to me, but I know very little about it.) And... it looked reasonably easy to set up according to the Marantz manual. The rest of my system is Salk Verocity HT2TL speakers, and an AVA Insight + Double 260. I unfortunately did not order my AVA Star hybrid preamp with the phono circuits! So I guess that means I would have to use my Onkyo TX-NR5007 AVR as a phono pre, or buy a stand alone phono preamp. I am not sure if the AVA Star can be modded after the fact or not. Appreciate any guidance you guys can give me on the desireability of the Marantz and the best way to set up the preamp function. Sorry to be such a goober!

bpape · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jul 2011, 02:50 am »

Here's a nice start.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1315875029&/SOTA-Comet

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1315638489&/VPI-Scout

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtabl&1315573130

Add your choice of cart and phono stage and you've got way better than entry level

Bryan

dB Cooper · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jul 2011, 03:07 am »

Call Frank, he'll tell you what a phono stage would cost. If you want to go "cheap & cheerful", look into the Hagerman Bugle which has a rep for far outperforming its price point.

2gumby2 · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jul 2011, 11:13 am »

I recommend considering the Well Tempered Lab Simplex turntable.
http://www.welltemperedlab.net

Bigload · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 12:16 am »

I did check with Frank at AVA and he said the AVA Star can be upgraded to add the phono circuits. SO that will be my first step.

Minn Mark · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jul 2011, 04:02 pm »

I think you will be very happy with the AVA phono circuits...I am. Amazingly musical, quiet yet dynamic.

Mark

dlaloum · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 11:39 am »

Don't underestimate the phono stage in the TX-NR5007

For a basic MM/MI phono stage it is not half bad!

I have the TX-SR876, same phono stage... power supply may be a bit better in your model.

I compared it to a Creek OBH18 with OBH2 power supply upgrade (around $400 worth of phono stage?) - and there was absolutely nothing between them...

Unless you are considering phono stages at well over $500, or probably more like over $1000 - there won't be dramatic improvements.

Start off by investing in the table and cartridge....

bye for now

David

Mr Ed · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 12:00 pm »

If you are diy you should look here,,,,,it is a Lenco forum but not limited to just Lenco.
A vast bank of info on phono pre, arms, cartridge, amps and general audio and a friendly place.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php

Cheers
Ed

OzarkTom · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 01:17 pm »

Here is a rare one on Ebay. These are now going for more money than they did back in the 80's. This AR will even beat the Linn LP-12 with a Sumiko-The Arm. This is the most underated table of all time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-THE-TURNTABLE-ORIG-OWNER-NOT-XA-/220819589375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3369df88ff

brother love · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 01:55 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 29 Jul 2011, 01:17 pm

Here is a rare one on Ebay. These are now going for more money than they did back in the 80's. This AR will even beat the Linn LP-12 with a Sumiko-The Arm. This is the most underated table of all time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-THE-TURNTABLE-ORIG-OWNER-NOT-XA-/220819589375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3369df88ff

+1

I owned this AR Classic turntable w/ a Premier MMT tonearm. It was a killer system for the money ... huge bang for the buck (I miss it & regret selling it to tell you the truth). Only problem I recall was that the motor wasn't shielded or there was some motor grounding issues of some sort. Grado cartridges would result in "hum". I used Audioquest cartridges w/ excellent results.

trackball02 · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 04:02 pm »

Go with the phono preamp upgrade for your Avastar. Just plug and play and you do not have to worry about an additional set of interconnects and external phono preamp.

I'm using an Avastar with the built in phono with a Grado Reference Master cartridge and it sounds fantastic and a phenomenal value.

Wayner · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 05:06 pm »

I'm running my Empire 598MKII with an Audio Technica AT440MLa thru my AVA Insight+ EC preamp (number 2, with remote volume) and the combination is some of the best vinyl I've heard.

Frank's SS phono board is really, really, really good.

AR turntables are bery good, too, but one must be very cautious when buying one because of the motor issues. There are no replacement motors, unless you want to do a major mod. Do not get the 2 motor version, it just plain sucks and was quickly replaced by AR with the single Hayden synchronous motor, which is totally shielded and works wonderfully with any Grado cartridge.

I still have some replacement parts, like headshell, dustcover, motor and switch capacitors but that is about it. All my arms are gone and I sold my last base quite a few months ago.

ARs are a pain in the ARS to work on.

BTW, I'm running the Empire in a Lofgren B alignment (plenty of slot room) and, well, it just don't get much better. Why do you think that VPI's new Classic series mimics the Empires........because they are that good. More advice, probably stay away from the 698....too many plastic parts (that like to break) and the dust cover has glass panels rather then the acrylic found in the 598s.

There is also zero truth in the rumor that the Empire 990 arm causes pre-mature record wear. The truth is, you need to align the cartridge properly (as in any other turntable) to get least amount of mechanical distortions. The alignment suggested by Empire is old and I'm not sure what alignment it is, but do the Lofgren B. Pivot to spindle distance is 209.55mm, overhang is 18.719mm for the Lofgren 70.285 and 116.604 null points.

Wayner

BaMorin · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 29 Jul 2011, 01:17 pm

Here is a rare one on Ebay. These are now going for more money than they did back in the 80's. This AR will even beat the Linn LP-12 with a Sumiko-The Arm. This is the most underated table of all time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-THE-TURNTABLE-ORIG-OWNER-NOT-XA-/220819589375?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3369df88ff

when re-habbed properly, the AR THE as listed in the ad, or an ES-1 is a pretty far up the food chain table. Hekk a properly modded AR XA will embarrass a lot of the new $1000.00 or less tables today.

Wayner · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 05:59 pm »

The ES-1 tonearm may have a malfunctioning anti-skate control. THE AR table's Jelco arm is a good arm. Still may suffer from poor motor.

Wayner

pansixt · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 06:31 pm »

Your Empire is a sweet looking table. Heck, the AR is a nice looking TT also.

I just love the look of a vintage table with a lot of wood and stylish hardware.

Obviously, the end result is the important one.

James

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 07:51 pm »

Some tables have aged gracefully, others not so well. When it comes to vintage tables, there always seems to be some kind of problem that needs to be fixed or addressed. Perhaps the most unrepairable (short term) is flat out motor failure. There are other gremlins that can spoil the fun, like a failed anti-skate control, or shorts in the interconnects. Belt drives need belts, and they are not all made the same, some too short, others not of the right material. Speed control is also a plague to some belt drive tables, with no apparent fix. Then there is internal tonearm wiring failure which can really add to the frustration. Not that any of these things can't be overcome, but in the hands of a non-mechanical, non-electrical newbie, could lead to the ultra frustration.

I've owned 4 ARs at one time or another and while a running machine is a thrill to listen to, one with problems is just no fun at all.

My Empire has had minor failures over it's life (40+ years old). The anti-skate spring function is barely workable (I fixed that with an outboard deadman), the interconnects have been fixed several times (at the RCA end, thank God), and the power cord had to be replaced. The 990 arm has a custom made male DIN connector, and if that fails, good luck to you sir.

I have modded the walnut base somewhat in the back, drilling 2 holes, one to relieve the pressure of the interconnect from the tonearm. This was a bad design from the beginning and the routing of the interconnect cable prevented the suspension from floating as originally designed. That is now fixed. The power cord has been routed to the left back side of the deck, thru another hole in the back, replacing a fancy, but poorly executed power plug design, now long gone.

One more thing, I do not use the dial for setting VTF. It is set to zero and I add all the weight to the counterweight when setting the VTF. The Queing pad can be another issue as with age, it may become "unglued" from it's metal perch. inside the tonearm pivot assembly.

The motor will probably never die.

Wayner

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 07:56 pm »

Here is a slightly older photo of the complete table.

And here is one of the ARs that I recently got rid of.

Here is a Rega P3 I sold to a fellow ACer.'

Here is a Harmon/Kardon T-25? I also sold to another ACer.

And here is a VPI HW-19jr with a AudioQuest PT-6 tonearm (Jelco).

Here is an ADC table that also went to another ACer.

W

roscoeiii · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 08:14 pm »

I have a modded VPI HW19Jr for sale here. You can buy with or without an Origin Live upgraded Rega 250 tonearm. See my ad in Source Components.

xsb7244 · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Jul 2011, 02:37 am »

Early in my life I owned an AR turntable with the SL8E Rabco tonearm. But no more. I wish I still had the Rabco.
It could track any warp record and was tracking at half a gram.

neobop · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Jul 2011, 12:07 pm »

Hi,
After reading your initial post, I have the feeling that you're looking for a new table. I can't comment on the Marantz, I've never heard one. The VPI Scout is generally considered very good in that price range. You can get one with an arm for $1800. I'm sure you could get a package from most any dealer that would include a cartridge, for less than $2K.

Here are some others you might want to take a look at. The Origin Calypso and Thorens 309 look interesting.
http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/Show-All-Turntables

I'd give the Scout serious consideration.
Regards,
neo