[rudy99]

hi, im curious which is a better more quiet belt drive ,  the rega planar p 3 24 or the music hall 5.1 and 5.1 se,, also is there a noticeable diff betweent eh 5.1 and 5.1 se?
how does the rega p3 and p324 differ and is it  a noticeable one?
 anyone with some experience or knowlege about these fine tables comments will be greatly appreciated

thanks

[baldrick]

The P3-24 has an upgraded arm, plinth and (most noticeably) motor with an optional external power supply.

The motor upgrade is available for the P3 (and the Planar 3) and by all accounts is a very good improvement in noise and speed stability.

The P3-24's arm is an upgraded version of the RB-300 with the most obvious change being the three point anchoring system vs the old RB300's through-hole attachment to the plinth.

The P3-24 is a fantastic value IMO.Sorry I cannot compare the P3-24 to the Music Hall.  The MH is a rebadged Pro-Ject with some minor tweaks.

[rudy99]

The P3-24 has an upgraded arm, plinth and (most noticeably) motor with an optional external power supply.

The motor upgrade is available for the P3 (and the Planar 3) and by all accounts is a very good improvement in noise and speed stability.

The P3-24's arm is an upgraded version of the RB-300 with the most obvious change being the three point anchoring system vs the old RB300's through-hole attachment to the plinth.

The P3-24 is a fantastic value IMO.Sorry I cannot compare the P3-24 to the Music Hall.  The MH is a rebadged Pro-Ject with some minor tweaks.

thanks

is the  p 3 24 cart difficult and expensive to change,,

what cart and or arm do most owners prefer on their planar 3?

i found one but i have to buy the cart seperatley and i dont want to pay more than i have too


thanks again

[baldrick]

I found a very good synergy between the RB300 arm and the Audio Technica OC-9.  It is pretty easy to align.
With the extra quiet motor on the P3-25 it also works well with any of the Grado cartridges - they have a flavour for every price range.
You could always go with the Rega Elys (okay) or the Rega Exact (very nice) cartridges - no alignment required.  They are an exact fit for the RB300 arm.

[Wayner]

+1 for baldrick's choice for a Rega over the Music Hall. I'd suggest getting the speed control unit to go with it. The RB301 (or RB300 in the P3) is a very excellent arm, suitable for many types of MM/MC carts.

I'm currently running an Audio Technica AT440MLa with excellent results.

Wayner 

[rudy99]

I found a very good synergy between the RB300 arm and the Audio Technica OC-9.  It is pretty easy to align.
With the extra quiet motor on the P3-25 it also works well with any of the Grado cartridges - they have a flavour for every price range.
You could always go with the Rega Elys (okay) or the Rega Exact (very nice) cartridges - no alignment required.  They are an exact fit for the RB300 arm.

thanks  that is good to know about arm/cat/table synergy,-- the current synergy on my yamaha is absolutley terrible, i can even get a quieter almost better sound with  a new age plastic at usb cheap table  i have for ripping vinyl

oh and i didnt even know there was a p 3 25 model, i am such a n00b., but ive got some awesome lp's.

thanks again i do appreciate the help 

[rudy99]

+1 for baldrick's choice for a Rega over the Music Hall. I'd suggest getting the speed control unit to go with it. The RB301 (or RB300 in the P3) is a very excellent arm, suitable for many types of MM/MC carts.

I'm currently running an Audio Technica AT440MLa with excellent results.

Wayner 

thanks wayne, i guess i know what u prefer,, so i take it the RB301 is for  the p3 25,    and what is the speed control unit.

oh yea do you use a pre amp with your rig? what kind? and of course amp synergy?

thanks again

[jrtrent]

You could always go with the Rega Elys (okay) or the Rega Exact (very nice) cartridges - no alignment required.  They are an exact fit for the RB300 arm.

The third mounting bolt not only aids in alignment, it also provides greater rigidity to the system, thus improving resolution.  Do you have a Rega dealer near you?  They have a proprietary torque wrench used to get just the right bolt tightness when mounting the cartridge, and I have heard a significant difference in sound between a customer-installed Rega and that same cartridge re-installed by the dealer with the right tools.

I'm not positive, but since you say you have to buy the cartridge separately, it sounds like you might be considering a Rega second hand, and you did say you didn't want to spend much on the cartridge.  A low-cost cartridge I've heard and liked on Rega, Music Hall, and Linn 'tables is the Goldring Elan (spherical stylus) or Elektra (same cartridge with elliptical stylus).  Its low profile body doesn't require any shims to get proper VTA in the Rega arm, and it has a modest compliance rating (16mm/N) which mates well with the medium mass arm on the Rega.

[jrtrent]

. . . so i take it the RB301 is for  the p3 25,    and what is the speed control unit.

I think the reference to a P3-25 was a case of typographical error.  The RB301 is the current arm for the P3-24.  The speed control unit is an outboard power supply to get better, cleaner power to the turntable.  Below is an excerpt from the Stereophile review.  Sounds like something you'd want to audition in your own home before buying.

"The TT PSU, an optional outboard power supply originally developed for the Rega P7 turntable, produces a stable voltage, synthesized by a quartz oscillator, that drives the motor more precisely. It also permits convenient pushbutton selection of the P3-24's two speeds (33 and 45rpm). It's not retrofittable to the original P3, unfortunately.

Gandy told me that the TT PSU offers a "small improvement" that can't be quantified. "It's not enormous," he admitted, adding that the better the incoming electricity, the less noticeable will be the sonic improvement."

[Stu Pitt]

Gandy told me that the TT PSU offers a "small improvement" that can't be quantified. "It's not enormous," he admitted, adding that the better the incoming electricity, the less noticeable will be the sonic improvement."

Not to say I know more about the P3-24 or anything else Rega better than Roy Gandy, but I think the TTPSU makes a huge difference.  I wouldn't liken it to a power conditioner; I'd say its more like a re-clocker for a DAC.  The TTPSU and similar turntable power supplies basically act like a clock for power coming in, thus stabilizing the speed of the motor.

Maybe I'm off with the technicalities, but I can tell you that I've never heard a subtle difference using an external power supply for a turntable.  Every one of them, regardless of the turntable, took the turntable to the next level.  Put it this way - I'd rather a P3-24 with the TTPSU than a P5 without it.  I've heard both side by side several times.

[Wayner]

The obvious reason that Rega changed the arm mounting on the tonearms was of course, cost. However, I think the older RB300 is a better arm just because of it's simplicity. Measure distance from spindle center to arm center and drill hole. Done. The new arm takes 4 holes, 3 to mount the arm and the 4th for wires. I don't know how this made things cheaper, maybe more of a trade off. Anyway, the 3 point mount kind of makes some of the second market things like the VTA adjustment device not work anymore. I know that the colored tables (blue, green, red,etc.) come with the outboard power supply. The supply is suppose to replicate a near perfect 60 cycle sine wave, which is what a synchronous motor looks for and latches onto to control speed, rather then voltage, which can very all over the place.

Wayner

[baldrick]

Could be true Wayner.
The RB300 is a fantastic arm - way better than the Planar 3 'table it came with for many years.
However the P3-24 is a much better 'table than the Planar 3, the motor is way better (although you can get the motor and power supply as an upgrade for the Planar 3).

Either way, a Planar 3 / RB300 / new motor, and a P3-24 / RB301 are almost equal.  Both would do justice to a select group of high quality cartridges including your Grado Gold Longhorn.Other recommendations would be the Grado Sonata, Shelter 501, Soundsmith SMMC-1, AT-OC9.

[mjcmt]

I was considering the Rega P3-24 until I read that the RB301 arm's VTA is adjusted using shims. This detoured my from considering it at this price. Sorry!

[rudy99]

Not to say I know more about the P3-24 or anything else Rega better than Roy Gandy, but I think the TTPSU makes a huge difference.  I wouldn't liken it to a power conditioner; I'd say its more like a re-clocker for a DAC.  The TTPSU and similar turntable power supplies basically act like a clock for power coming in, thus stabilizing the speed of the motor.

Maybe I'm off with the technicalities, but I can tell you that I've never heard a subtle difference using an external power supply for a turntable.  Every one of them, regardless of the turntable, took the turntable to the next level.  Put it this way - I'd rather a P3-24 with the TTPSU than a P5 without it.  I've heard both side by side several times.

im glad that you heard those side by side, we need more of this,  im some what dissapointed you found it made a huge diiference as i lean toward the older psu less  model.... from my experience with equipment amps,  the psu offered small difference, even on some portable units comparing it  to their battery,     but i would concede that the sensitive nature of the tt makes this completely different, however i am skeptical. and wish i could do an a/b myself or maybe not, because i would probably drive myself insane lol,

[rudy99]

The RB300 is a fantastic arm - way better than the Planar 3 'table it came with for many years.
However the P3-24 is a much better 'table than the Planar 3, the motor is way better (although you can get the motor and power supply as an upgrade for the Planar 3).

so is there a difff between the planar 3 and the p3,
is the planar 3  the 80's table and the p 3 is the 2000 model?? and also if so does the p3 or 2000 model have a better motor than the older planar 3.

that is confusing cause i thought the planar 3 and the p 3    were the same?


thanks

[baldrick]

The P3 had a slightly different plinth than the Planar 3 but was otherwise essentially the same.
The P3-24 has the RB301 arm fitted standard, and the new quieter motor and optional power supply.

The motor upgrade is available separately and can be retrofitted onto a Planar3 or P3.  If you're on a budget I'd suggest a Planar3 and a motor upgrade option as a minimum spec.   The new motor makes a big difference.  The optional power supply improves on that.

I'm not convinced the RB301 is any better than the RB300 - the difference is subtle, and the RB300 with any of the various counterweight mods and new wiring would surpass the sound quality of a stock RB301 easily.

[jrtrent]

im glad that you heard those side by side, we need more of this,  im some what dissapointed you found it made a huge diiference as i lean toward the older psu less  model....

Keep in mind that Gandy said the difference is installation-specific, which is why you really want to audition it in your own home first.  When I auditioned power supply units in my previous home, differences were minimal to non-existant.  The power grid in my previous neighborhood had been updated by the utilities company and things just seemed very stable (Prior to the upgrade, my Linn LK1 preamp went into shutdown mode quite often.  Audiophile Systems, Ltd., the importer at the time, did a modification to it they said was normally only needed in third-world countries with very poor electricity.)  Also, I had had my home re-wired and with dedicated circuits to the hi-fi system.  I'm currently living in an older apartment in a rural town where we must have about half a dozen power failures per year.  Optional power supply units might make a significant difference to me now.

[Wayner]

I was considering the Rega P3-24 until I read that the RB301 arm's VTA is adjusted using shims. This detoured my from considering it at this price. Sorry!

Both arms VTA is adjusted with shims. So in that regard, one is not better then the other.

The P3-24 motor is suppose to be a superior motor to previous models and be better isolated from the plinth that it is mounted to. Older models such as the P3 or Planar 3 had weaker motors and their isolation mounting wasn't the best, tho still OK, in my mind. I never heard any motor noise or rumble when I had my Planer 3. I did not use the stock mat, but rather my own version, and perhaps that also helped muffle any motor noise transmission.

The Rega tables are perfectly suited for doing an off the plinth motor mount, like the VPIs, but you would need to make a module to house the motor in and move the switch. A longer belt would also be needed. I'm surprised Rega hasn't done this already. I also remember seeing a picture from one of the AC members that did that very thing, really isolating the motor by distance, and bringing any possible hum issues with virtually any cartridge to zero, a non issue.

Wayner

[Jeff K]

Code: [Select]

The Rega tables are perfectly suited for doing an off the plinth motor mount, like the VPIs
Of course, the Classic is supposed to be the best VPI yet, or the best for the money depending on who's talking. 

[Stu Pitt]

im glad that you heard those side by side, we need more of this,  im some what dissapointed you found it made a huge diiference as i lean toward the older psu less  model.... from my experience with equipment amps,  the psu offered small difference, even on some portable units comparing it  to their battery,     but i would concede that the sensitive nature of the tt makes this completely different, however i am skeptical. and wish i could do an a/b myself or maybe not, because i would probably drive myself insane lol,

Maybe it is the power in my area, Westchester County, NY.  We have a ton of power outages and other problems.

I haven't heard the Rega tables and power supplies in my home, nor any others except my Pro-Ject 1Xpression and Speed Box II.  I've heard the Regas several times at my favorite local dealer's place, and have heard several others at different shops.  All of them are in the area, so maybe that explains my findings.

Po-Ject's Speed Boxes use quartz generated singals to control the electricity, or something like that.  Mikey Fremmer said this in a review -

“Aside from providing better regulation of platter speed, the Speed Box permits electronic switching between 331/3 and 45rpm. Everything tightened up: high-frequency transients sharpened, bass textures became far more musically recognizable, and overall “tunefulness” – the ability of the table to deliver the beats that make music sound real – became credible. If you’ve got a Pro-Ject or a Music Hall turntable, do yourself a favor and invest $119 in a Speed Box Mk II! It makes the table sound twice as good. No kidding!”

Michael Fremer, Stereophile, July 2006

I agree with his assessment.  Maybe not literally twice as good after the Speed Box, but a step up the model ladder increase.  I don't know how he quantifies "twice as good."  Other than the unquantifyable, his description is  exactly what I heard on my own deck (I owned the 1Xpression for a year or so before I bought the Speed Box), and in other non-Pro-Ject and Music Hall decks in hifi shops.

None of the decks sounded bad at all without the power supplies.  Had I not heard the power supplies, I wouldn't have thought anything was amiss.  After hearing them I wouldn't go back.  If I'm contemplating buying a turntable, I factor in the cost of the power supply into it.  If I can't afford both together, I make plans to add it down the road.

Just what I've personally observed.  Nothing in this hobby is absolute, and everyone hears what they hear.  No point in arguing that IMO.

Although this may still the pot a little, and its not my intent at all - I've heard very positive changes in external power supplies in other gear, namely Naim (no pun intended).  Their external power supplies for their pre-amps, CD players, and phono stages work very well to my ears.  Worth it or not is a financial thing and different for everyone.