[low.pfile]

I am experimenting with isolation for my Technics 1210 recently. Not really having any issues with the stock feet and 3 inch 20lb cutting board. but where the TT was located was not ideal - it needed a permanent location and the cutting board won't fit where I need it to in this interim spot. I have been researching stands (TT + amps) but that will take a while - that's a separate topic.

So I thought I'd comment on my quick experimentations and look for some other methods. I purchases racquetballs after reading about their ability to reduce vibrations transferred to the TT. I know about spiked metal feet, isonodes, Isonoe Footers as replacements for the stock feet. I wonder about the nicely make isonoe feet but they are $180. My 1210 has a KAB fluid trough, and I use a isoplatmat and herbies mat under the LP.

I am finding that the racquetballs are better than the stock technics feet for reducing ambiant vibrations. I tested these variations:

(1) TT on Racquet balls resting on rack shelf
(2) TT on Racquet balls on cutboard which was resting on rack shelf
(3) TT on stock feet on cutboard resting on rack shelf
(4) TT on stock feet on cutboard with Racquetballs under resting on rack shelf

Wha I am calling a Rack shelf is an ikea coffee table similar to LACK construction.

The way I determined the amount of vibration being transferred  was to observe the speaker driver while stepping, tapping, and hand pounding on the shelf and hardwood floor. Setup #4 was by far the worst as the. There was hardly any difference between #2 and #3. With #1 I could hit my closed hand down hard inches from the TT and the woofer barely moved and there was no associated sound same for heavy footsteps less than a foot away. BTW no music was playing but the stylus was resting on an LP and the volume was increased slowly to get to normal listening level.

I think the raquetballs look very clugey but they work. Not bad for less than $10 for 6 balls. Leveling maybe off a degree or so but that is what is great about the 1210.

Airborne noise is still something affecting the 1210 as medium finger taps are easily transferred to the speaker resulting in a wobbly driver that takes a couple of seconds to subside. I know about the clay top/underside method I just can't bring myself to intrude into the mechanics of the TT. Maybe I will feel brave someday.

Also I am thinking of mocking up a rough sand box to see if it surpasses the racquetballs but would get one built as my woodworking wouldn't meet my own scrutiny.

And Curtis Mayfield Superfly sounds amazing right now. and it's a used $10 album.

Here's a few snaps
   
   
   



Was my test kookie?  Anyone with 1210 or similar TT like the properties of racquetballs for isolation? Other low cost alternatives?

[bacobits1]

I recently changed to these>

http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/vibrationpads.htm

18" Sq. Pads $32.50 Ea. Ribbed Neoprene (W/O cork).
2" wide by 18" long strips: $18.00  (All prices are plus shipping!)
 

    * 2" Pads:  $1.50 Ea. Cork center <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<These
    * 3" Pads:  $3.00 Ea. Cork center
    * 4" Pads   $6.00 Ea  Cork center               
    * 6" Pads   $9.00 Ea  Cork center
    * 12" Pads  $18.00 Ea  Cork center
    * 18" Sq. Pads $38.50 Ea. Cork Center
    * 2" wide by 18" long strips: $18.00  (All prices are plus shipping!)

Cheap and work very well. 2 squares stacked in each corner of 50 Lbs. Granite slab.
Worked better than 2" maple spiked under my Basis Table. I got mine off of Audiogon for $3 each. These are the same and cheaper. As usual YMMV depending on all variables involved.

Watch any back wave you might pick up from the speakers being so close to the TT and wall.

D

[Wayner]

I like it!

[low.pfile]

* 2" Pads:  $1.50 Ea. Cork center <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<These

Watch any back wave you might pick up from the speakers being so close to the TT and wall.
D

D, I plan to pick up those blocks for other equipment, I could try them with the TT.
Yes I agree about my TT location near the speaker and wall, not an optimal spot. Looking for other options but that will need a stand and cable length change.

ed

[low.pfile]

You will either think this is funny or that I am a complete nutter. or both.....

It has been a rainy Sunday. and I decided to move my speakers in a different location to see the difference during listening I noticed that the tripod was still lurking over my shoulder so I did a variation of my test though with music playing.

Video 1: the pound / tap test: http://www.vimeo.com/3427722

Video 2: the door shut / stomp test: http://www.vimeo.com/3427932



Neither had skips or distortions. There was very slight subsonic signal visible in driver during the hand pounding. But it was pretty hard pounding. On the second video you can see that the tripod jumped(image shake) but no effect to song play.

BTW the mic on the LX3 camera sucks.

[markC]

Did you sit back and listen? Was there any noticable change in sound quality? I don't currently run a TT, but I'm thinking it might be benefitical  for a transport as well.

[low.pfile]

Did you sit back and listen? Was there any noticable change in sound quality? I don't currently run a TT, but I'm thinking it might be benefitical  for a transport as well.

Mark, I did lots and lots of listening. But I think you mean A/B listening. No, I didn't do that. I was quickly trying out the impact to vibration of the feet, balls and wood block. yesterday I was focusing on trying out listening with speakers much further from the wall than normal. I did notice a difference with that but impractical since the speaker is in front of the door.

After using the balls, I didn't notice any thing change for the worse. I will try to do an A/B sometime.

Try it. 3 balls are $4.

cheers, ed

[TheChairGuy]

Ed,

I see from earlier you are aware of other feet like brass toes...but have you tried them as yet?

4 brass toes pointed down into 3.5" maple block has been the best support thus far found.  The Sl-1200 sounds overdamped to me (which I keep thinking is the rubber base itself, not any electronic issue for the most part)...using 'lively' legs helps preserve the upbeat sound better than something bouncy or absorbent used under it.

John

[low.pfile]

Ed,

I see from earlier you are aware of other feet like brass toes...but have you tried them as yet?

4 brass toes pointed down into 3.5" maple block has been the best support thus far found.  The Sl-1200 sounds overdamped to me (which I keep thinking is the rubber base itself, not any electronic issue for the most part)...using 'lively' legs helps preserve the upbeat sound better than something bouncy or absorbent used under it.

John

John, No I have not tried brass cone feet. I would like to and am looking for someone shedding their extra kit or a good set online at a resonable price. I know parts express has some M6 feet for under $30/set of four. But these are a two piece design which seems like less than a good idea. Though I don't want to spend $200 on cone feet which I might not be able to sell off if not impressed. Suggestions are welcome.

That said, to me, it seems like the brass cone feet would not be as effective at evironmental vibration isolation alone and would require the use of a big wood block (for mass loading?) and a decent stand as well. Would that be fair to say?

BTW, I am not trying to "fix" anything with my TT sound. I am satisfied with at (maybe a case of ignorance is bliss) but I have a very low noise floor and lots of dynamics. Does edge out my server + Brick DAC for musicality-depends on the LP. Just experimenting on the setup with a few bucks budget.

cheers, ed

[Listens2tubes]

You are on the right track with the racket balls, after all what's inside a ball? AIR! Always the best at isolation. Enjoy.

[timjthomas]

So how would this approach work with a suspended table such as a Linn Sondek?

[BobM]

Ahh, you wouldn't use any additional suspension on a table that is already suspended. But I believe the only course of action for a Linn owner is even more serious. You need to hire a Linn certified and approved Scotsman, with kilt and all, to come over and adjust, bless, tweak, twiddle and otherwise adjust your wee little darlin' of a table (bless me heart). 

I think the going rate for that service is a bottle of Glenmorangie.  And you need to do it every 6 months, as the seasons change and the rotation of the earth and proximity of the planets throw out that sensitive piece of equipment.

Bob

[guest48077]

Hey I have a similar design.

I basically copied GINKO AUDIO isolation Platform Design and the TNT Sandblaser Design. Two isolation build into One.  The result were very good and it looks kinda cool too. Heres the basics........it is about 60 pounds of Sand in a wood box "floating" on 6 Racket balls. (the balls do have small holes to sit in)

The below LINK will Clarify and show you what I did. It also can be used 2 way with the Sandbox on the bottom and the balls ontop (veiw Pic)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1732

[Listens2tubes]

Bob has a point. My Systemdek IIX had a falling out with foot fall (to coin a phrase) skipping. Deciphered: There is a spot in the 81 year old oak floor just past the rack where walking fast could send the table's suspension into oscillation which sent the arm flying. This was partly due to the somewhat loose rack. The only fix was a wall hung shelf. BTW I have since reworked/stiffened my antique radio cabinet/rack and added ball isolation under my CDP. Of Coarse I am ANAL - Audio Nut at Large.  

[low.pfile]

Hey I have a similar design.

I basically copied GINKO AUDIO isolation Platform Design and the TNT Sandblaser Design. Two isolation build into One.  The result were very good and it looks kinda cool too. Heres the basics........it is about 60 pounds of Sand in a wood box "floating" on 6 Racket balls. (the balls do have small holes to sit in)

The below LINK will Clarify and show you what I did. It also can be used 2 way with the Sandbox on the bottom and the balls ontop (veiw Pic)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1732

Undertow, I looked at your Gallery. Very cool concept. Did you like one configuration over the other?

I have been looking at a variation on your combo approach: http://cognitivevent.com/sandbox.html. My idea is essentially to extend the sides up to partially cover the TT base - not touching of course.

[guest48077]

Hey I have a similar design.

I basically copied GINKO AUDIO isolation Platform Design and the TNT Sandblaser Design. Two isolation build into One.  The result were very good and it looks kinda cool too. Heres the basics........it is about 60 pounds of Sand in a wood box "floating" on 6 Racket balls. (the balls do have small holes to sit in)

The below LINK will Clarify and show you what I did. It also can be used 2 way with the Sandbox on the bottom and the balls ontop (veiw Pic)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1732

Undertow, I looked at your Gallery. Very cool concept. Did you like one configuration over the other?

I have been looking at a variation on your combo approach: http://cognitivevent.com/sandbox.html. My idea is essentially to extend the sides up to partially cover the TT base - not touching of course.

I did see that design when researching my design. I came to the conclusion that I liked the Look without covering the balls. Plus I wanted the versatility to NOT use the balls, I can take my sand box off and use the built in adjustable feet. Another thing I was thinking about doing is taking out some sand to lower the table into the sand box so only the platter is visible.

Here is a link to where I got the original Idea.

http://www.gingkoaudio.com/products.html

I then adapted from there. It was a very fun project. In my gallery there is one Pic of the thin Platform on top, but realized it is better in reverse with the heavy sand on top of the balls.

[TheChairGuy]

John, No I have not tried brass cone feet. I would like to and am looking for someone shedding their extra kit or a good set online at a resonable price. I know parts express has some M6 feet for under $30/set of four. But these are a two piece design which seems like less than a good idea. Though I don't want to spend $200 on cone feet which I might not be able to sell off if not impressed. Suggestions are welcome.

That said, to me, it seems like the brass cone feet would not be as effective at evironmental vibration isolation alone and would require the use of a big wood block (for mass loading?) and a decent stand as well. Would that be fair to say?

BTW, I am not trying to "fix" anything with my TT sound. I am satisfied with at (maybe a case of ignorance is bliss) but I have a very low noise floor and lots of dynamics. Does edge out my server + Brick DAC for musicality-depends on the LP. Just experimenting on the setup with a few bucks budget.

cheers, ed

Ed, yup, those are the feel I use: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-721 They were $20 a set a year+ ago, tho.  From anyone else, they are fare more tho.  You remove the stock feet, but you don't have to screw these in - just set them under in the same spot you have the stock feet now (I found any other place but where the stock feet are do not work out well)

They will hold the table firm...especially if you use the foam top to the top of the brass toe (the foam gives it a bit more friction to the table)

Ignorance is wonderful...my bank account wishes I could go backwards 

But, I think you will find the toes to be more satisfying than the balls (not certain of that, of course )  A thick maple block under the toes will work, as likely will 1 or 2 birch cutting boards from IKEA 

John

[low.pfile]

Ah, you are using the un-threaded version. I actually was referring to these threaded cones: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-715 for $25

I'll chime back in after my next experiment.

cheers, ed

[TheChairGuy]

Ah, very cool Ed 

I looked thru the 32 reviews on the link you provided and came up with this one:

I installed these spikes underneath my Technics SL1200 turntable as a direct replacement for the rubber and plastic OEM feet. After a short learning curve on how to get the spikes to sit flush with the bottom (I'm not the handiest person around), I couldn't be happier with the performance. Everything improved - bass, solidity of imaging, and pacing. Whereas it sounded before like the turntable would lose momentum on loud passages, now it flies through them with strength and ease. Footfalls are much reduced. Aesthetically, they help the turntable look really sharp and souped up - like putting aftermarket wheels on a car. This set is a high-performance bargain. Now I'm curious to try them on my speakers...

Of all the enhancements done to my Technics, I think changing out the feet to brass feet may have been most important of all (keep in mind my stock tonearm was smashed, so I could not compare with the $2700 Origin Live arm I eventually fitted it with). It changed the balance from overly dead to much more 'lively'.

The mat changeouts, outboard power supply/strobe disabler were nuanced upgrades next to the feet/maple platform, I felt

John