Do turntable platters spin in the wrong direction?

Wayner · « **on:** 13 Oct 2008, 09:28 pm »

While I was at a recent Hard Disc Drive class, I noticed that the disc drives spin counterclockwise, just like the toilets do when you flush them (at least in the northern hemisphere). So I have to ask myself, is the basic design of the turntable wrong? Is the platter rotation fighting natural gravitational forces? Obviously, the turntable was designed for the right handed person, and you wouldn't want to push the stylus thru the grooves, so going clockwise was the answer. But now, with all of the accumulated knowledge, should the basic turntable be redesigned to also rotate counterclockwise with the tone arm designed in mirror image of it's current design and perhaps mounted with the counterweight towards the user. Just a thought.

Wayner aa

Wayner · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 10:36 pm »

Your post in of a religious nature and illegal at AC. Perhaps you want to retract it or reword it. I was hoping for some serious discussion insted of your total BS.

Wayner

macrojack · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 10:53 pm »

Wayner - What about your car? At any given moment of travel, half the wheels are going clockwise and the other half counter.

Terryo appeared to be just having fun. To tell the truth, I thought you were kidding.

But I guess we could ship all our turntables downunder and start out again from scratch.

Wayner · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 11:11 pm »

Yes, perhaps TerryO is kidding, but I'm very sensitive to the Devil crap and didn't find any humor in it at all.

The car anology is not correct. The table has one plane and it's apparently an un-natural direction of spin. That is my point of interest.

If TerryO was just kidding, I'm sorry.

I do think there is something to this as it seems all of the hard disc drive manufacturers spin the disc in the same direction, and I think there is a reason for it.

Wayner

jules · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 11:13 pm »

It's ok ... looked at from below, they rotate anti-clockwise.

jules

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 11:34 pm »

Interesting to see photos from the Hubbell telescope of distant galaxies that also spin in one direction.

JeffB · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Oct 2008, 11:56 pm »

Toilets spin the direction they do because of their design, not the Coriolis effect.
You might want to read this.
http://www.discovery.com/area/skinnyon/skinnyon970523/skinny1.html

*Scotty* · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 12:36 am »

It kind of seems to me that turntables spin the direction they do in order to follow the spiral groove from the outside to the inside. If the turntable spins in the wrong direction it is because records are cut in the wrong direction.
Scotty

JerryM · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:08 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Oct 2008, 09:28 pm

So I have to ask myself, is the basic design of the turntable wrong? Is the platter rotation fighting natural gravitational forces?
Wayner

Wayner,
Interesting question. What is most interesting to note is that master turntables, the ones used for playback of stampers and matrices in a pressing shop, do turn counterclockwise. The tonearm is on the opposite side, but because you're playing an exact opposite of an album, the stylus straddles the ridges.
So, you're thinking correctly.

Technically, LP's are the hand-me-downs that are playing backwards compared to their analog masters.
Have fun,
Jerry

ST-2A3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:39 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 13 Oct 2008, 09:28 pm

While I was at a recent Hard Disc Drive class, I noticed that the disc drives spin counterclockwise, just like the toilets do when you flush them (at least in the northern hemisphere). So I have to ask myself, is the basic design of the turntable wrong?

Just because all disc drives spin one way, that does not mean turntables are wrong. Hard drives are a consumable item. They can go Tango Uniform in five to ten years of constant use. Throw it away and buy a new one. (You did have a backup, right?) So what difference does it make which way they spin.

As for fighting gravitational forces, as long as the table turns at the correct speed for proper playback. I do not see a problem here.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 02:21 am »

TerryO, that was one weird post.

I think you freaked ole' Wayner out with it

Hang in there...I think Wayner was seriously asking a question in there (and others subsequently answered at least partially for him)

John

dmckean · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 03:40 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 14 Oct 2008, 12:36 am

It kind of seems to me that turntables spin the direction they do in order to follow the spiral groove from the outside to the inside. If the turntable spins in the wrong direction it is because records are cut in the wrong direction.
Scotty

This is spot on. Hard drives and CDs read from the inside out and turntables read from the outside in.

KS · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 04:16 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 14 Oct 2008, 02:21 am

TerryO, that was one weird post.

I think you freaked ole' Wayner out with it

Hang in there...I think Wayner was seriously asking a question in there (and others subsequently answered at least partially for him)

John

Wayner is one weird dude and TerryO is firmly grounded in satire.

Would Wayner prefer turntables to turn counterclockwise in the Northern hemisphere, clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere, and remain stationery at the equator? Would the turntables' speed would be infinite at the poles???

doorman · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 04:21 am »

TerryO's post still has me smiling!

Good question, anyway!
Don

jules · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 04:49 am »

Quote

Is the platter rotation fighting natural gravitational forces?

If this is the core of Wayner's Q, the answer is no. Gravity exerts a vertical force which, apart from keeping the vinyl on the TT, has no horizontal component. Gravity will neither hinder nor aid the rotation of the record.

I can't think of anything particularly "natural" about clockwise movement and again I make the point that it depends on your perspective as to whether something is rotating in a clockwise or anticlockwise direction. Does the earth go around the sun is a "clockwise" direction? Depends on how you view it, from above or below. But then, what is "above" or what is "below"? Again, it depends on the reference point. Is Australia really at the "lower" hemisphere? Only if you choose to think so.

jules

macrojack · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 12:56 pm »

Maybe clocks are going backwards too. Perhaps clockwise would be more natural if it went counterclockwise.

sts9fan · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:07 pm »

would it still be counterclockwise? I don't think gravity works as much on the horizontal but I am no physicist. Isn't it a vector force?

Wayner · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:13 pm »

Reading some of your responses makes me think I didn't make my point clear enough.

I'll restate it. Yes, I understand records would have to be cut in the opposite direction. Let's forget about that for the time being.

If we were designing this vinyl medium today, would we still engineer the table the same way. It is the way it is now out of convince for a right handed person. But are all of the design considerations correct?

First, all mass is affected by gravity. Nature has displayed the results. Tornadoes rotate in a counterclockwise direction. Hurricanes rotate in a counterclockwise direction, ocean currents rotate in a counterclockwise direction. There is even a clock at one of the museums in Washington D.C. that operates on the earths rotation.

So, the claim that the turntable platter is not affected by gravity or magnetic fields is just plain wrong.

The point to all of this is that there are guys like John the Chairguy that can (or think they can) hear perfect pitch. If by design, the turntable platters un-natural spin direction were reversed, would we not be able to improve the design by a significant measure.

Wayner

sts9fan · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:20 pm »

Quote

So, the claim that the turntable platter is not affected by gravity or magnetic fields is just plain wrong.

Who said it was not affected? EVERYTHING is affected by gravity. It is a weak force and is directional towards the center of the mass (earth). Please provide formulas. Again I am no physicist but I do not see how rotation left or right is going to change the affects of gravity that is pushing down. Rotaion of the earth maybe.

dewaldv · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Oct 2008, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 14 Oct 2008, 01:13 pm

Reading some of your responses makes me think I didn't make my point clear enough.

I'll restate it. Yes, I understand records would have to be cut in the opposite direction. Let's forget about that for the time being.

If we were designing this vinyl medium today, would we still engineer the table the same way. It is the way it is now out of convince for a right handed person. But are all of the design considerations correct?

First, all mass is affected by gravity. Nature has displayed the results. Tornadoes rotate in a counterclockwise direction. Hurricanes rotate in a counterclockwise direction, ocean currents rotate in a counterclockwise direction. There is even a clock at one of the museums in Washington D.C. that operates on the earths rotation.

So, the claim that the turntable platter is not affected by gravity or magnetic fields is just plain wrong.

The point to all of this is that there are guys like John the Chairguy that can (or think they can) hear perfect pitch. If by design, the turntable platters un-natural spin direction were reversed, would we not be able to improve the design by a significant measure.

Wayner

Wayner

You have a very good point here but I dont think it will have a sonic impact. At some stage a Japanese company made a turntable that played records vertically!

I live in the southern hemisphere and probably have an advantage - I would not know. (South Africa)

The rotational speed of a platter is to slow to be dramatically influenced by the earths natural rotational forces but high speed objects are very sensitive to that natural force and that is how gyros operate. They rotate at a very high speed and detect the slightest movement, direction changes and such.

Read this informative article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope

dewaldv