[Steve Eddy]

Mass hypnosis, eh?

Your argument seems to be that if I, and others, hear an improvement, we're probably deluding ourselves and it proves nothing.

No, not probably, just simply possible. And until that possibility can be ruled out by means other than ego, vanity or denial, you don't really have any answers beyond that you simply perceived a difference.

But if someone hears no improvement then that proves the rest of us who think we hear an improvement are truly delusional.

It would prove no such thing nor did I intend to imply such a thing.

I was simply trying to determine what possible explanation you might give for someone not perceiving a difference other than their being deaf and/or having a crappy system.

For that matter, what sort of explanation do you have for those who swear by such things as photographs in their freezers, intelligent chips, teleportation tweaks and the like?

se

[nathanm]

The real truth is that buying an AudioCircle t-shirt and using it to clean your records will make them sound better.  Plus you'll look cool.  Oh, and it's a superconductor.  And it demagnetizes screwdrivers.  Actually, it's whatever you want it to be.  I've heard of people using them as parachutes.  Well yeah, they died but only cause they didn't buy enough and sew them together.  Don't make that same mistake!

[Dan_ed]

I forgot to answer that. If you heard no improvement, based on what I've experienced with this, I'd probably question how you attempted it and what device you used. If I did it for you and you still said you heard no difference, I'd bid you health and happiness and advise you not to waste your time.

I'm willing to let anyone believe anything the want. I might think them a fool, but it's their life. 

[ghersh]

I was at Michael Fremers house the other day when I saw this large round plate on the floor. It was a Furutech record demagnetizer. I asked him if it works and he said ""we'll, you tell me".
It did, the sound stage got deeper and cleaner and the tone on instruments was more accurate, more musical. I don't know how it works but it does, I was impressed.
Anyone have any similiar experiences with this thing?

The force of magnetic field that can be measured on vinyl LP is several orders of magnitude lower that the magnetic field of earth. Make your own conclusion. If you *did* hear any changes, and it wasn't in your head, I'm impressed too.

[Wayner]

I would just like to hear a little inkling of a plausable explination of the device and what affect it has on the vinyl, magnetically, static-wise or homogeinized.

A. Does the grain structure of the vinyl get altered in any way, like tempering metal with heat?

B. Does the device neutralize ionic components at the sub-atomic level and if it did, what happened then?

C. Does the machine physically change the record groove (like melt it, or change it's shape) and cause a change in sound?

D. What do record companies say about their vinyl being "impure" as it has been suggested here? What say MFSL, is your 200 gram virgin vinyl not so virgin?

E. Since Mr. Stereopile himself has one, why doesn't he know at least what the F it is doing to the vinyl to "dramatically" improve the sound. This is another example of piss-poor journalism by the Stereopile mag to sell products that have no plausable explaination to it's workings.

F. Is this not the 21st century where almost all known or soon to be known discoveries will be made, but we can't figure out what the hell this device does.

I just want to know.

Wayner

[topround]

Forget the science.
Only Tesla knows

Lots of good theories here, but the fact remains it worked
sorry to disappoint

[Wayner]

Ok.

W 

[BobM]

I would just like to hear a little inkling of a plausable explination of the device and what affect it has on the vinyl, magnetically, static-wise or homogeinized.
I just want to know.

Wayner

So would I, but it doesn't sound like we're going to reach a scientific consensus on this thread. Sooooooo ... I think it's time for an inexpensive experiment to hear for myself.

I really couldn't care less if you think the earth is round or flat. If I experience the roundness of this globe, and believe in it, then bully for me. Bully for you too, as long as you let me live out my fantasies I'll let you live out yours. So there's no scientific explanation that we can come up with. Does it sound different/better to my ears? Then that's good enough for me, especially if it's not subtle.

Do I believe in magic rocks and telephone call based ectoplasmic audio nirvana? No, but if it works for you and you believe it to be cost effective then that's great. So lets just all agree to disagree and get an experiment going to prove or disprove it for ourselves.

Enjoy,
Bob

PS - maybe after the holidays when the bills are paid off.

[Scott F.]

I know better than to butt into a conversation like this but I find it curious that nobody has visited the manufacturers page. Now, I'm as skeptical as the next guy (even though I'm one of the "bad guys"), but if their findings are believable, they have shown a reduction in the magnetic field on a piece of vinyl. Here is the propaganda from their website;


Demagnetizing LPs
How can an LP be magnetized? It’s plastic!
The fact is that pigment added to the plastic during the manufacturing process is the culprit. The minute amount of ferrous material in the pigment causes LPs to become magnetized. Testing at the Tokyo Nanotechnology center with a IHI Gauss meter showed that after an LP was treated with the deMag the magnetic field of the LP was lowered from 620~630 nT to 572~582 nT (nanotesla: a unit of magnetic field strength,1 Tesla = 10,000 gauss)

That seems to be enough science to satisfy the analytical mind....if you are trusting. Otherwise, it may be up to one of you guys who has access to the Furutech unit plus a IHI Gauss meter to verify the results.

Now, whether that amount of reduction in magnetism is audible is up for grabs (only because I haven't played with one of these) but it sure appears that vinyl holds some form of charge. Since the vinyl is magnetized, and we are using a magnetic pickup to extract the info from the grooves, it seems completely plausible to me..... but what do I know.

Furutech

Personally, I might just try one of those plate or bulk tape demagnetizers. Should be (cheap) and interesting.

[Dan_ed]

Excellent, Scott!  I was thinking about this on the way home, "Is there a white paper or some explanation by Furutech or someone else?"  Thanks for doing some simple leg work.

And, again, don't anyone spend $1800 on this. You should be able to do it for less than $100, buy a mag/demag device that is.

I'm not selling anything but the possibility of an increase in the enjoyment of vinyl playback.

[Wind Chaser]

Is there a white paper or...

You can get a "white paper" for anything, I've got a roll hanging in my bathroom.  It's good stuff, highly recommended.

Back in my analogue days, I used a $50 red anti static gun of some sort.  Couldn't tell you if it made any difference, but who cares.  They sold it, I bought, it end of story.

[TheChairGuy]

Scott - you smartie pants 

Thx, John

[Dan_ed]

Is there a white paper or...

You can get a "white paper" for anything, I've got a roll hanging in my bathroom.  It's good stuff, highly recommended.

Back in my analogue days, I used a $50 red anti static gun of some sort.  Couldn't tell you if it made any difference, but who cares.  They sold it, I bought, it end of story.

Yes, white papers are only as good as the person writing them. However, if you read enough of them you can quickly decide if the author is completely full of shit, or perhaps, does have an idea of what they're talking about.

It's called a Zerostat, and it is used to cut down on dust attracted by static charges. It has nothing to do with the mag/demag treatment discussed here. This does not help with dust nor does it decrease pops and ticks due to static charges. That Zerostat didn't do anything for static pops and ticks either, but it is still effective for cutting down on the dust attraction.

"Back in my analogue days"? WTF!  No offense, but you sound like an older coot than I am.   

[Wind Chaser]

"Back in my analogue days"? WTF!  No offense, but you sound like an older coot than I am.   

My analogue days date back from 1975 - 1984.  About that time I bailed out of audio partly because the CD made me think I spent way too much money on ancient irrelevant technology. If only I had known better.  I flogged an Oracle TT with the Alphason solid titanium arm and a strain gauge pick up system for less than what you'd pay for a used Oracle today without an arm or cartridge of any sort.

Now my eyes don't see nor my ears hear as good as they used to.  My hair started falling years ago and what's left is turning grey.  I could go on but run rabbit, run! Dig that hole, forget the sun.  Life is incredibly short.


I'm with George Costanza on this one...

"The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends.
I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time.
What do you get at the end of it? A death. What's that, a bonus?!?

I think the life cycle is all backwards. You should die first,
get it out of the way. Then you go live in an old age home.
You get kicked out when you're too young, go collect all
your super, then, when you start work, you get a gold watch
on your first day. You work forty years until you're young enough
to enjoy your retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, and you
get ready for High School. You go to primary school, you become
a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little
baby, you go back into the womb, you spend your last 9 months
floating with luxuries like central heating, spa, room service on tap,
then you finish off as an orgasm! Amen."

[mjosef]

Mhnnn...someone should talk to GoD about that...could GoD have gotten the whole sequence backwards? 

[Daygloworange]

I'm with George Costanza on this one...

"The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends.
I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time.
What do you get at the end of it? A death. What's that, a bonus?!?

I think the life cycle is all backwards. You should die first,
get it out of the way. Then you go live in an old age home.
You get kicked out when you're too young, go collect all
your super, then, when you start work, you get a gold watch
on your first day. You work forty years until you're young enough
to enjoy your retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, and you
get ready for High School. You go to primary school, you become
a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little
baby, you go back into the womb, you spend your last 9 months
floating with luxuries like central heating, spa, room service on tap,
then you finish off as an orgasm! Amen."

I guess you may never have heard that Mork from Ork already lived that dream. 

I do agree though, when you look at it, we do live life bass ackwards.... 

Cheers

[Wind Chaser]

I guess you may never have heard that Mork from Ork already lived that dream. 

Never watched even one episode of that, let alone MASH, or almost any other great classic.  Never was much of a TV watcher.  Only started watching Seinfeld recently.  Great show.