AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Virtue Audio Owners => Topic started by: alphaiii on 15 Jan 2010, 08:32 pm
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I'm considering pre-ordering a One.2 amp, and didn't realize today is the last day for pre-order. So I'm hoping to get some questions answered last minute.
First, what are the difference between the One "Classic" and One.2?
It seems the "classic" is upgraded a bit from the original to get rid of the subwoofer pop and background noise. What does one gain with the One.2 over the classic?
The other question is about crossovers. I recalls with the original One, there was a mod to set a fixed crossover. I also remember reading that the One.2 was going to have an internal fixed crossover already, but that it could be changed just by moving a jumper. I think I read that it would be 80Hz from the factory. So, my question is can either of these set to have a 100Hz crossover, and can this be done with changing a jumper setting, or does it require soldering?
Basically, I've been looking at options to upgrade from my Tweak City Audio Gizmo, and there aren't many that have a built-in crossover. For my use, I need a 100Hz crossover and sub-out. The Virtue One or One.2 might fit the bill, if I can get the crossover set to 100Hz.
Thanks in advance.
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Non-authoritative answer here but given the timing... the product page says "A second set of input capacitors are built into the board so that you can cut low frequencies to your main speakers with a single jumper on the volume POT pcb." so that probably means that if you really need 100Hz you could replace that second set of capacitors.
Another difference is that ONE.2 has a stepped attenuator.
On the preorder the OnE.2 is only $20 more than the classic.
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The ONE.2 includes a 0.1 uf input cap which can be jumper selected. This cuts highs to the main speakers at around 80hz. You can replace the cap with one of your choice, as you like.
The ONE "classic" we will be selling in 2010 includes all the mods that were incorporated into the ONE.2 except for the stepped attenuator and the 2nd set of input caps (discussed here).
Our email server crashed for three days so I'm going to extend the pre-order special a few days.
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Thanks for the responses.
So basically, for the One.2, I'd have to replace that 2nd 0.1uF cap with a different one that would give 100Hz instead of 80Hz...then jumper select it as I would have done before to get the 80Hz xover.
I've never soldered anything...so I wouldnt want to risk damaging it. Unfortunately, with my speakers (Mirage OMD-5), I'm pretty certain I'd need 100Hz xover.
Luckily, I have a few more days to think about this.
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I just looked up the specs on your speakers and the frequency response is listed as 60 Hz - 20 kHz (+/- 3dB), so my guess is an 80 Hz cut off would be more appropriate than 100 Hz. I don't know what other amps you were considering, but you can't go wrong with the One Classic or One.2. At the pre-order prices Seth is offering, both are a steal.
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I just looked up the specs on your speakers and the frequency response is listed as 60 Hz - 20 kHz (+/- 3dB), so my guess is an 80 Hz cut off would be more appropriate than 100 Hz.
Yeah, they are rated -3dB at 60Hz, but according to the measurements at HTmag, the -3dB point is at 101Hz. Now that measurement is "quasi-anechoic", so the actual in-room response should be lower, but my guess is that 60Hz is very optimistic.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1007mirage/index2.html
And judging from comparing the listed specs of various Mirage and Energy speakers/subs I've owned or researched (both designed by API although now owned by Klipsch) to actual measurements done by reviewers/owners, it seems their measurements tend to be of the "in-room best case scenario" kind.
A perfect example being the Energy RC-Mini... It's rated for -3dB at 80Hz, yet it's multiple owners at AVS have stated that Audyssey sets the xover 150Hz, so the -3dB is probably around or above 120Hz, even with the speakers wall mounted, which should give some bass reinforcement.
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I don't know what other amps you were considering, but you can't go wrong with the One Classic or One.2. At the pre-order prices Seth is offering, both are a steal.
Actually, there aren't really any others I was considering right now. I went with the TCA Gizmo a year ago b/c it was alot less expensive that the Virtue One, and had a built in 100Hz xover without the need for any mod.
The Virtue One.2 is my 1st choice...2nd being just stay with the Gizmo. Other than that, I haven't found any other amps that have what I'm looking for.
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One other question....well actually 2...
What is the timeframe for the One.2 with built-in USB DAC? And what is the projected pre-order and regular retail pricing?
I recall reading $50 more expensive than the One.2, but this was stated when the retail price of the One.2 was going to be be under $300
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It will be a while before we have a usb input on the virtue one. When it does come, it will be a "me-too" DAC and a convenience feature. It will be around $50 more, yes. Based on our prior product delays excuse me for not providing an estimated ship date. There are lots of great, cheap, small DACs out there and it won't hurt you to pick one up in the mean-time. That really ugly triangular thing for $99 got a decent write-up in Stereophile recently - ours will be no better (or worse).
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alphaiii, all I will chime in on here is that the original Virtue ONE (their worst amp) is sonically in such a different league than the Gizmo that comparing them is not even fair. IMHO of course ;). I understand the ease of use with the crossover setting. Not sure how much cost a selector switch with mulitple options would add, but I think more and more people would have an interest in that kind of product.
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Not to sound like some sort of Virtue Audio fanboy (which I am), and at the risk of repeating what I and others have already said, but it really isn't even a fair comparison between the Gizmo and the One.2, or even the One. The use of better parts, more consistant quality, and most importantly VERY good service all play a part. Plus, there is always the 30 day money back guarantee in the slim chance you aren't satisfied. Just my 2 cents (Canadian) as a satisfied, probably life-long customer.
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droht, PSB Guy...
Thanks for your input. I have no doubts the Virtue amps are a big step up from the Gizmo. But they're also alot more $ too, so I have to make sure it's what I really am after before spending the cash.
I'd like your thoughts on one more thing... I'd be using this amp connected to a NuForce uDAC from my PC... I had thought about the HRT Music Streamer, but went with the uDAC for the variable output and headphone out...
So knowing that, do you still think it's worth the amp upgrade, despite using a relatively cheap USB DAC to feed it?
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I am using a Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 to feed my Virtue ONE. It is $219 USB DAC/pre/headphone amp w/built in tube buffer. Sounds awesome to me on my Usher S520s. I've had more expensive options as well, can't say they sounded a heckuva lot different.
I didn't use the Gizmo with the Maverick D1, so I have no exact comparison, but my guesstimate is that even with a low end DAC the Virtue will be well worth the upgrade. With the pre-order deal you will probably be able to use it for six months then sell it at break even if you don't find it making as much difference to you.
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The Maverick D1 looks cool. I predicted this years ago. It was only a matter of time before the Chinese started to cut out the middle-man and for products like that one... difficult to do, but affordable parts and very little secret sauce. I'm so relieved that Virtue has satisfied customers and a high-value HI-fi product. It's curtains on MID-fi.
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My Virtue One is fed uncompressed AIFFs from a computer through a Devilsound DAC and a Grant Fidelity B-283 linestage, with awesome results. Unfortunately, this is the only DAC I have expereince with, some personally I have nothing to compare it to. When Mr. Mardis finishes the Virtue Pre/DAC/Headphone unit, I'll share my experiences with that. But you can rest assured that the little Virtue amps are more than resolving enough to let you notice differences between DACs. Like Seth says, they are definitely HI-FI as opposed to MID-FI. For someone else's experience with the One and various DACs, check out this review:
http://www.stereomojo.com/Virtue%20One%20Amplifier%20review/VirtueOneAmplfierreview.htm
BTW, the uDAC may be cheap, so was my Devilsound, but from what I've heard both are highly regarded.
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Hi. Last day for the one.2 super special preorder price and I'm ready to order. Except for one detail... I'm looking to upgrade the PSU to get the most out of the amp. Does anybody on here know if the 30V 130W supply has a fan or not? The name of the game, for me, is a silent system. If there is a fan, how's the noise level on it? Thanks!
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There is a fan although I've never heard it. Very quiet and only goes on to cool down the unit - which rarely happens unless you're playing music so loud for so long (ie. you wouldn't hear the fan regardless).
However, if you want a dead quiet system with no background coloration, why not consider batteries?
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I have the 30v/130w supply on my Virtue One and the fan on it is so quiet that I didn't even know that it had one, until now that is. It's a great power supply, allows the amp to show it's some of it's true colours, but it has been mentioned elsewhere that to get the most out of the amp you should use a high current linear supply or batteries.
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Virtue, thanks for the quick answer. Good enough for me, and I've place my order.
You asked why I didn't consider batteries. The simple reason is that I was just more comfortable with the power supply upgrade. It was cheaper than the deluxe battery options (in an order that's already expensive for me), and most everything I've read praises the 30V/130W PSU upgrade.
PSB Guy, thanks also for your confirmation that I made a good choice. I feel no buyer's remorse for getting the PSU upgrade instead of the batteries. Since my previous most expensive amps have been around $150, I have little doubt that this lil' Virtue will make me quite happy. If I feel compelled to squeeze a little more out of my system in the future, I may look in to batteries.
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Trust me, you'll love the amp, good choice. You can always upgrade the power supply later, as the audiophile upgrade bug hits you later...and it will :D
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I got my order in late last night.
But now you guys are making me feel like I need an ungraded power supply to really get something out of this amp.... And my budget won't allow for that right now. Just the amp was a stretch for me.
About now is a good time for someone to reassure me that it's still a great amp with the stock 24V supply...
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About now is a good time for someone to reassure me that it's still a great amp with the stock 24V supply...
FWIW mine will be coming with the stock supplies and I'm not losing any sleep over it, I expect they will be quite fine until such time as I feel like / get around to upgrading the supplies. I'd say be happy, you got a great deal ;)
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Since my previous most expensive amps have been around $150, I have little doubt that this lil' Virtue will make me quite happy.
You are going to be one happy camper, unless you realize that you now need better speakers. :green:
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I got my order in late last night.
But now you guys are making me feel like I need an ungraded power supply to really get something out of this amp.... And my budget won't allow for that right now. Just the amp was a stretch for me.
About now is a good time for someone to reassure me that it's still a great amp with the stock 24V supply...
The original ONE with the 60w PSU sounds great to me, so I'm sure you'll be loving this version. I have to say though, I was hot and heavy for Virtue until reading the constant hype about what batteries and/or better power supplies can do for you. I don't want to be constantly chasing that variable after finding a great amp. It got a bit frustrating, so I backed off to the base ONE and I am happy. For now at least.
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alphaiii, sorry if I my comments gave the impression that an upgraded power supply is needed. The upgrade is universally praised, but so is the amp before the upgrade. As a non-audiophile and as a former club, warehouse, and radio DJ, FWIW, I've found that EQ is reasonably effective in compensating for system weaknesses (my cheapo speakers sound quite punchy with bass boosted, even through my bass-lite $30 T-amp). My favorite home listening combos to date have had EQ involved.
dvenardos, you are wicked! Time for me to patiently wait for that day to arrive. And when it does, I'd be a fool to be anything other than happy about it.
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The little Virtue amps definitely ARE awesome with the stock 24v/65w power supply, and there are many glowing reviews that back up this opinion. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was saying they aren't. But it is one of the great "virtues" (sorry) of these amps that you can throw more power at them, up to a certain point, and they just get better. It's nice to have the option. Upgrade fever can be a b***h, I know because I'm waiting for power supply number FOUR, but I'm nuts...
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Guys, I'm not going to back-track on my recommendation for an upgraded PSU. If you take our stock amp, run it on the stock 24v psu, and put crappy, power-hungry speakers in front of it, you won't be that impressed. It's like running your Ferrari on 70 octane gas (if that exists). It will still smoke the Prius but a guy with a Porsche might out-run you off the line.
Late in the development process - back in late 2007, early 2008 - we chucked around $10,000 worth of Amidon/American Core inductors that were specified by Tripath and I think used on competitive products. These inductors sounded AWESOME using the 24v supply but fully saturated at 3A and smoked the amp. Morover, with the 24v supply, we didn't need the heat-pipes at all. A bunch of solder on the board would have been sufficient.
So let it be known that the ability to handle 7+A was not an accidental consideration and I feel no need to defend the amp's excellent but not world-beating performance with the 24v supply. It's a great starter supply - we vetted nearly 10 supplies before choosing this one from Golden Profit - but it hardly gets our race car out of the parking lot.
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Even with the $150 or so it costs to upgrade to a better power supply, these amps are still a steal and are world-beaters. My One replaced a Yamaha amp that cost about the same as the amp + upgraded power supply, and the comparison in sound quality isn't even close, even in my small office environment. Plus, you always have the option of starting with the small supply, then upgrading at your convenience. The smaller supply is offered as the default to keep the cost to the customer down and to offer choices. What other amps out there can be improved upon as easily by just plugging in a different power supply? IMO having such an easy upgrade path in a product (amps) that usually have NO upgrade path is a huge plus. (And I still think the One is awesome with the stock supply)
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The Two is even better than the One. :evil:
Even with the $150 or so it costs to upgrade to a better power supply, these amps are still a steal and are world-beaters. My One replaced a Yamaha amp that cost about the same as the amp + upgraded power supply, and the comparison in sound quality isn't even close, even in my small office environment. Plus, you always have the option of starting with the small supply, then upgrading at your convenience. The smaller supply is offered as the default to keep the cost to the customer down and to offer choices. What other amps out there can be improved upon as easily by just plugging in a different power supply? IMO having such an easy upgrade path in a product (amps) that usually have NO upgrade path is a huge plus. (And I still think the One is awesome with the stock supply)
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shut up now, donny!!!
hehe... the ONE.2 is nearly as good as the TWO ;-)
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I know, I am incorrigible. :D
shut up now, donny!!!
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oh but if If I had money to burn. I have (2) 1.2 amps on the way. And because I deal in fire alarm panels and the batteries are easily accessible, I ordered the 24v power supply / charger less the batteries from Gary. This is an investment of less than $800.00 all told. If I get any where near the satisfaction I am expecting, this will be the deal of the century for me. There are so many variables, including speaker choice, room set up and front end.... But you have to start somewhere. I don't have money to burn. But I turn 50 this year (sept 11 ... go figure) and I haven't been this pumped to set up my system in forever. I have a couple of smaller simpler systems that tickle my fancy. But this audiophile thing is like a drug. I keep wanting just a little more, a little better. To take my favorite songs, put my listening chair in 'the zone' ... and kick back ... this is a kind reward for a hard day for me.
So. I have (2) 1.2's coming. I bought a pair of the quad speaker cables from Seth also. I'm building (or rather my father in law is building) a pair of N3's. Sean is building the network for me. I have a MusicPC computer for a server running through a 24/96 DAC. I am so totally expecting bliss and I will post my thoughts on the matter as I put the system together and run it through it's break in.
But I've always had a certain notion; that great music played through shitty equipment still sounds better, and brings out the emotion better, than shitty music played through great equipment.
Of course, great music played through great equipment...
I have many songs / tunes that I always play when auditioning anything or when I go over to a friends place. Here is a small list. I would really love to hear what you people have for this kind of list.
Roger Waters Perfect Sense Pt1 Awesome female vocals
Dire Straights Private Investigations
Sarah Brightman Gothica into Fleurs du Mal and Canto della Terra
Tool Lateralus (Danny Cary is Stupid good)
Rush La Villa Strangiato (the band is stupid brilliant here)
Sarah McLachlin .... Stupid (It's the song)
Hiromi Time Difference
Dave Mathews All along the Watch Tower (Listener Supported Version EEEEEE!!!)
And if you are in to heavier stuff ... Dream Theatres Sacrificed Sons
I've been getting into Umphries Mcgee alot lately also. WHEW!!!
Regards :rock:
Dave
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Thought I'd chime in here with another supporting opinion.
What the 130w PSU brought to the game, for me at least, was a more "grown up" character to the amp. In other words, control and refinement. Emphasis on the former, which changes the character of music a lot in a deceptive way that takes time to realize. While I thought the stock supply was toe tapping fun, the 130w unit completely removes the sense of listening to a recording or reproduction. It sounds utterly real now, in a way that is almost surreal at times. It takes a lot of speed and control to break through this barrier I've found. Like Seth said, the amp is fun and very satisfying on the stock supply, but once you give the amp better power your reaction will go from "fun" to "wow." :)
Oh, and the 130w unit has a fan? Who knew...... I've never heard it once.
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Seth,
I was hoping you could give me a little more clarification on the bass management feature in the One.2, just so I'm sure I'm understanding.
In an AVR, bass management is handled in the digital domain, and signal is "crossed-over" to the speakers (high-pass) and sub (low-pass).
In the One.2, it's not actually a crossover when using the alternative caps with jumper setting, but a passive high-pass filter (so analog bass management), with a -3db point of roughly 80Hz, correct? And the sub is still receiving a full range mono signal from the sub out, right?
And lastly, what is the slope for the rolloff? 12dB/octave?
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In the One.2, it's not actually a crossover when using the alternative caps with jumper setting, but a passive high-pass filter (so analog bass management), with a -3db point of roughly 80Hz, correct? And the sub is still receiving a full range mono signal from the sub out, right?
This is absolutely correct. I believe that it's a 6db/octave, first-order, high-pass filter. The sub out is full-range.
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Hey Seth, One.2 still coming in around the 10th, have one on order, can I pay the difference for the 130watt supply before it ships, thanks
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Sensation is at the HK port now and will sail by sea. ONE.2 leaves Taiwan by air on 10/Feb. Of course we can mod your order - just email me at seth@virtu...
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And because I deal in fire alarm panels and the batteries are easily accessible, I ordered the 24v power supply / charger less the batteries from Gary.
If those are the smaller type (we use 2.8 ah in the UK for alarms) they will run the V1/V2 but you really do need larger batteries in my experience to get the best out of power amps when using a battery supply! The 2.8's sound a little undynamic.
I'm another one who has never heard a fan in the 30v power supply! It looks to me like it must be a very small fan too! :icon_surprised:
I use fairly efficient speakers here and the V1/V2 definitely sound better with 30v rather than 24! :wink:
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Hello Nuuk!
We do all sorts of panels including release panels. The batteries I chose for this are two 12v 26ah units. Also, Seth has managed to wiggle me into a M901. EEEEEE!! (giddy sound). Ninja san will be building me a set of outboard cross-overs with enclosures for my N3's. I'm waiting for Gary to send me the 24v battery kit. Now really .... Danny, Seth, Sean, and Gary. I couldn't have asked to deal with four nicer folks. What a great brag sheet I'll have when it's all put together!
And actually, I would be totally remiss to not include my father in law John in here also as he is building the N3 cabinets for me. You gotta love Newfies, and he's one of the finest!
KFD (ask Sean) :drums:
Showing off my build here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76385.msg730411#msg730411
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Looks great. Man, seeing all these great new systems is bad for me..... :green:
My "big plan" for the future is to do an M901 with Focus LS4's (the smallest model of the new Dannie Richie designed line source speakers being sold by AV123), with a NuForce edition Oppo BDP83 as source. This is a 2011 thing for me at best though, so all I can do is dream for now.......
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The batteries I chose for this are two 12v 26ah units.
They should be fine. Trust them to only use the 'tiddlers' over here! :(