AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Open Baffle Speakers => Topic started by: Poultrygeist on 1 Jul 2011, 01:17 am
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I want to thank you guys and MJK for your knowledge and inspiration without which I would not have been able to build these OB's. They are everything I hoped they would be.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48318)
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Details?
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48341)
The 8 inch Tang Bands are in their own separate T shaped OB which just rest atop the H Frames. They are driven by a Miniwatt SET of 2.5 watts, while each 15 inch Eminence Alphas H frame is powered by a Dayton APA-150 amp with built in crossover. A crossover setting of 80 db sounds about right. The signal from an Integra player is feed to the amps via an Aric preamp.
In building the H frames and the Tang Band baffles I used a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig to make very strong right angle joints. It's by far the easiest and most fool proof way of joining two pieces of plywood together. If you've never seen a Kreg Jig in action they are several demos on Youtube. Best $90 I've ever spent.
I used inexpensive 3/4 plywood which can be had for $26 at Home Depot for a 4X8 sheet. It doesn't stain so well hence the painted surface and black molding trim.
I've had the Tang Bands in those folding wing OB's as shown in the background ( first pic ) but as you might expect they were bass shy. The H frames OTOH give great realistic bass and sound nothing like a plodding sub.
The H frames are quite versatile and I use them to add musical bass not only to the TB's but to a pair of Mk3 Frugal Horns as well as some small Tekton full range speakers.
Open Baffle speakers are often criticized for lack of a low end but the H frames offer an outstanding solution.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48349)
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4.5 Fostex Tektons atop the OB H frames.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48350)
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Mk3 Frugal Horns and OB H frames
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48351)
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nice build, that tangband driver is the most revealing driver i have used and what surprised me was it does not need any help from a tweeter.
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The Tang Bands are exceptional. I once considered an enclosure but from what I've read it's higher Qts would call for a giant cabinet.
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If you send me a picture of the Tang Band OB and Alpha 15A H frame, your name, and an e-mail address so interested people can ask questions directly, I would love to add your speakers to my gallery. Totally up to you, some additional exposure for a really nice looking dipole speaker design.
Martin
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Nice work, great to see an application of the MJK approach like this :thumb:
The TBs doubled in price recently :(
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Truth be known my woodworking skills are severely limited. Home Depot made all the cuts for the H frames and the Tang Band OB's. I joined all the sides using a Kreg pocket hole kit as shown in the video below. You can even buy wood plugs to fill the pocket holes which I haven't gotten around to yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWI6QppYBFE
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Neodymium prices has doubled. People think that Alnico will come back ! :)
/Erling
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I can't see how that justifies the increase. There's still all the rest of the materials, forming, assembly, shipping, etc etc etc. Anyway the market will tell. Bet the price drops again in a few months.
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I tried my friend's gimmicky OB's on the H frames thinking they might embarrass my home spun Tang Band OB's - not! The TB's sounded much fuller and more refined.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48428)
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Neodymium prices has doubled.
It has gone up much more than that.
dave
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If I decide to add a tweeter to the Tang Bands for that extra sparkle does anyone have recommendations? Thanks in advance.
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jp, you may pick up some mechanical efficiency with that great looking design but 2.5 watts from my SET is plenty for the 1808's in OB. Post some pictures and impressions when you get them up and running.
The 1808 is just one heck of a driver and I hate that the price doubled as it will keep many from giving them a try.
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For those who would like to see the entire drawing with notes, credits, etc
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/Half-Chang-map-170608.pdf
We interesting your take on how this works. On paper the 1808 needs quite a bit bigger box.
dave
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Dave. Im alittle worried now...
You always need to be worrying a bit when you are the 1st one to install an unspecified driver ito a box fairly finely tuned for a driver that is quite different.
Your adventure will yield an important piece of data thou.
dave
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The new FF225wk is pretty close to a drop-in.
dave
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I understand that people like to make things and make pretty things. But from a performance perspective how can a box equal an open baffle? Don't think it can. The original posters speaker (Tang Band on open baffle running wide open and then augmented on the bottom using a separate amp) would sound way, way better. If you put a speaker in a box, it will sound boxy. Now you could go on and on about a single speaker and no phase shifting in the bass to a separate woofer.....but if you listened to both (done right, that is) then I cannot imagine your box speaker sounding as transparent or dynamic or deep. If you are running the Tang Band on its own amp and the woofer on another you can also put a smaller value better sounding coupling cap in your tube amp (or whatever) to ensure the Tang Band has a nice roll off on the bottom so it will play even more dynamically.
This is the open baffle forum, after all. Open baffle rules! I am sure the single driver people would love your speaker. Please post there.
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Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I have had a divine day. Hope yours is great too. Maybe after you finish your speakers you can then take them out and put them on an open baffle and run a woof underneath like in this thread and tell us what differences you hear. Would be educational for all. I have no desire for a box but a lot of people seem to like these horny/boxy things. But I hardly ever see anyone doing it both ways with the same driver and commenting on the difference. The open baffle plus H frame is easier to build but does not look as pretty and you need two amps or a coil on the woof. No matter, I am sure you will enjoy the heck out of those drivers however you use them....they are great drivers.
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Ric S or anyone who knows, does the H frame design not work well using an appropriate 12" driver? A 15" design will look pretty large in my room... WAF you know. Thanks. :D
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The TB/H-Frame Alphas don't look out of place in an average sized room. At 39 inches they aren't as tall as many floorstanders and the upper portion seems smaller as it doesn't block one's vision. My wife actually likes the way they look and she's not one to make on over my projects. I've heard what I thought were excellent box speakers but none could hold a candle to these.
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The OB's made it out of the garage into a room. The Bottlehead 2a3 Paramours match well with the Tang Bands.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51489)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51490)
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Oh man, all that tile, glass and unfiltered 1808s sounds like treble city. I'm curious if you have any capability to measure your in-room response.
This is TB's own measurement. My own were just as funky...
All that detail you guys are hearing is the same as turning the mid and treble knobs up on a receiver. Not really the same as retrieving what is actually present in the recording. To each his own and I know many people love these things, but wow, they are not linear at all. Even crossed over and EQ'd, I could not make them work as a wide range mid for my tastes.
Greg
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51492)
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tech, that's not my listening room but it works for picture taking.
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PG,
Did you put a inductor/resister on this to flatten out the gain on the top end above 600hz to 20K ? Thanks for the info. Looking for values to stop the high gain on that.
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These Radio Shack super tweeters ( said to be made by Fostex ) add a nice shimmer to brushed hi-hats.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=52752)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=52753)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=52754)
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You have your tweeters on backwards.
Adding a tweeter like that will cause some major disruption to the on axis response. Depending on listening height, you will get some 6db peaks and 15db dips all over the place.
Face your tweeter to the rear of the room and you can get the same air and spacial ques highlighted without the huge disruption to the on axis response.
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These Radio Shack super tweeters ( said to be made by Fostex ) add a nice shimmer to brushed hi-hats.
Made by Foster (who own Fostex). Be sure to rip the XO out of the pods and replace it with something better and more appropriate,
dave
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I tried them facing backwards but the cymbals go "tink" instead of "ting". But who knows it might grow on me. :lol:
Not much of a XO just a couple of caps to replace.
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I tried them facing backwards but the cymbals go "tink" instead of "ting". But who knows it might grow on me. :lol:
Not much of a XO just a couple of caps to replace.
Ones i have had all had a 2nd order filter with a dinky ceramic core choke.
dave
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Here some more on them
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/40-1310/40-1310.htm
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Poultryguist
What are the measurements of both your H-Frame and TB baffle and how did you come up with these? I read in one of your posts that you had a pair of Zu speakers that you parted with because these were better.
I've been looking for my next project and have been waiting for Danny Ritchie's next iteration of OB DIY with his 8" servo speakers but the wait is having me look elsewhere. I like your project and I could see doing it with an active crossover set-up.
Regards
Dave
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And how about these as an option to the TB's: Dayton Audio PS220-8 8" Point Source Full-Range Neo Driver
Regards
Dave
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Poultreyguist
What are the measurements of both your H-Frame and TB baffle and how did you come up with these? I read in one of your posts that you had a pair of Zu speakers that you parted with because these were better.
I've been looking for my next project and have been waiting for Danny Ritchie's next iteration of OB DIY with his 8" servo speakers but the wait is having me look elsewhere. I like your project and I could see doing it with an active crossover set-up.
Regards
Dave
My new drivers that will be used in these new models will hit the water in 8 days. So I hope to have a couple of new kits available in the weeks to come.
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My new drivers that will be used in these new models will hit the water in 8 days. So I hope to have a couple of new kits available in the weeks to come.
We've heard about these new kits for sometime now. How about whetting the appetite with some details?
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We've heard about these new kits for sometime now. How about whetting the appetite with some details?
The 8" servo subs are already in stock and pics and specs of the new 6.5" open baffle type drivers can be seen in the GR Research circle.
New smaller sized 300 watt servo amps are coming along too...
I wish I had them all yesterday too, but they just don't get made that fast.
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The 8" servo subs are already in stock and pics and specs of the new 6.5" open baffle type drivers can be seen in the GR Research circle.
New smaller sized 300 watt servo amps are coming along too...
I wish I had them all yesterday too, but they just don't get made that fast.
You'd make a good politician Danny. We've all seen the pics and specs you reference. I have a 'Wish List' folder. There's no GR stuff there because there's no details anywhere.
Well, I do have the Super-V's in there......
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You'd make a good politician Danny. We've all seen the pics and specs you reference. I have a 'Wish List' folder. There's no GR stuff there because there's no details anywhere.
Well, I do have the Super-V's in there......
I don't like posting too many details because once I start measuring and testing I might change something.
I did post info about three new models that will be using the new woofers and tweeter with wave guide. It's somewhere in my circle.
And yeah, it is hard not to like the Super-V. It is a personal favorite as well.
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Poultrygeist,
Very nice work. I'll bet they sound every bit as good as they look. I'm in the process of rebuilding my open baffles that has Visations. I'm now trying the Tang Band W8-1882. What filter combination (inductor/cap value) are you using on you Tang Band?
John
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Thanks John, after redoing the Radio Shack Tweeters I reversed them and they do sound better. I added Ikea cork place mats to the backs.
So far I'm enjoying the unencumbered sound of the Tang Bands running wide open. I'm open to trying a filter but haven't felt a need to yet.
After building these OBs I compared them to my Zu's. I didn't wait long before selling the Zu's.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57739)