speaker cables length

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James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #20 on: 4 Feb 2023, 04:47 pm »



Speedskater

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #21 on: 4 Feb 2023, 10:01 pm »
Any link to the Newsletter?

But it's not exactly the 'size' or the 'length'.
It's the:
Total end-to-end resistance in relationship to the loudspeaker's impedance curve.

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #22 on: 4 Feb 2023, 10:57 pm »
Hi - that's page 1 of a 4 page Newsletter so I agree.

james

munosmario

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #23 on: 4 Feb 2023, 11:03 pm »
Hi - that's page 1 of a 4 page Newsletter so I agree.

james
James, how could the full 4 page article be obtained?
Thanks in advance.......mario

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #24 on: 4 Feb 2023, 11:07 pm »
Hi mario - please send me your email - jamestanner@bryston.com
Its one of the Bryston Newsletters we did last year.

best
james

gene9p

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #25 on: 4 Feb 2023, 11:12 pm »
JMO..but I feel like a quality XLR short run ..say from Triode Wire Labs combined with a long run of quality speaker cables is better than a short run of quality speaker cables and going to the bank for a loan on a long run of XLR's from Triode Wire Labs. Just saying...

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #26 on: 5 Feb 2023, 12:05 am »
Hi Gene

IMO - No need to spend money on any exotic speaker or interconnect cables.

james

J2Ordan

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #27 on: 5 Feb 2023, 02:39 am »
Hi Gene

IMO - No need to spend money on any exotic speaker or interconnect cables.

james

Amen to that Brother!

For someone handy with a soldering iron, Morgami 2549 is less than a buck US per foot, Neutrik gold plated connectors are less than $5 each. Both my 33 foot and 27 foot cables were around $70 US. Speaker cables are Pro Studio 11-4 bi wired with forks from Parts-Express. Morgami has a similar speaker cable that I am sure is also very good, about $6US per foot.

For those going the DIY route, highly recommend a good Weller soldering station and solder such as Cardus. Well worth the investment.

All, IMO and as always YMMV.

Enjoy the sounds,

John

Speedskater

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #28 on: 5 Feb 2023, 04:04 am »
On the other hand:
When the loudspeaker designer voiced the speakers, he used cables. So those cables became one of the factors in his design.

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #29 on: 5 Feb 2023, 11:16 am »



Hi Speed - in our case we have a very large factory anechoic chamber for testing our speakers and Voicing is something we try to avoid as best we can.

james

Speedskater

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #30 on: 5 Feb 2023, 01:52 pm »
Sorry. I used 'Voicing' as a synonym for tuning (or maybe calibrating). Some brands use skill and high-tech and some others not so much.
But you do use speaker cables for these tests, don't you? 

Speedskater

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #31 on: 5 Feb 2023, 02:09 pm »
Looking at the Model-T impedance vs Frequency Curve, it would not be very sensitive to speaker cable end-to-end resistance.

gene9p

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #32 on: 5 Feb 2023, 02:39 pm »
Hi Gene

IMO - No need to spend money on any exotic speaker or interconnect cables.

james

sorry but I disagree with that statement...the right interconnect can bring so much to your set up.

R. Daneel

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #33 on: 5 Feb 2023, 03:31 pm »
Dear all,
This is my first topic in the Bryston circle. Therefore, I will first introduce myself. My name is Ziad. I live in Montreal, and I'm a big fan of Bryston. I bought my first Bryston amplifier more than 20 years ago when I was a student. Today, all my audio system is Bryston (BDP-1, BDA-2, BP26, 4BSST2). My speakers are PMC IB2.

I just moved into a new house, and I have the following constraint: There will be a distance of 40 feet between my Bryston units and the speakers. I am hesitating between two options:

First option: Use long speaker cables between my 4BSST2 amplifier and the speakers (40 feet). In this case, I will use 3 feet XLR interconnect between the BP26 and the 4BSST2. The speaker cables will be Mogami 3104. The XLR interconnect cables will be Mogami Gold Studio XLR-XLR.

Second option: move my 4BSST2 amplifier closer to the speakers. In this case, I will use long XLR interconnect cables (25 feet) between the BP26 and the 4BSST2 and shorter speaker cables from the amp to the speakers.

Hence, my question is the following: Which is better: use short speaker cables and long XLR interconnect cables or vice versa?
Thanks a lot for your help.

Hi Ziad!

Let me first welcome you aboard and congratulate you on a seriously good audio system!

As for your dilemma, this is how I will break it down for you:

If your speaker wires are sufficiently low resistance (less than 5 Ohm/km equalling 0,005 Ohm/m), then the said distance of 40 feet (aprox. 12m) would give a total resistance of 0,06 Ohm. While this might seem insignificant, remember that your Bryston amplifier has a very low output impedance. For the sake of the argument, if we assume it is 0,01 Ohm, then the cummulative impedance (amp output impedance + wire resistance) would be 0,07 Ohm, so seven times higher than if no wire was involved. The damping factor would thus be seven times lower. Because Bryston amplifiers are well designed, it might still be enough but as you can imagine, it is not an ideal situation.

On the other hand, as a general rule, the shorter the speaker wire, the better. This would of course mean your XLR cables would have to be a lot longer and your amplifier would be “removed” from the rest of the system. While this might be “better”, it might not be practical. For one, you would need an available A/C outlet to plug the amplifier in. Also, XLR cables are not a universal solution to all problems concerning noise. Given the required length, it would be better if they didn’t cross over any power cables or pass near a WIFI router or a similar wireless device. It would be best to check whether your XLR cables are “star-quad” configuration. It would be better if they were due to their higher immunity to these disturbances. On the other hand, if there are no disturbances of any kind, a simpler “twisted pair” XLR cables would probably be a better solution because of their generally lower capacitance.

The bottom line is that it depends on your specific conditions. Whichever solution you end up deciding on, you’ll be needing high quality cables. Sticking to proven brands like Mogami will ensure a high quality product and real-world specifications will be as advertised. I can’t help you with your specific models but given the fact you seem to already know about Mogami tells me you know what you’re doing or at the very minimum, have a pretty good idea about what to look for.

I am sorry this is not a definitive answer to your question but I hope it is useful.

Cheers,
Antun

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #34 on: 5 Feb 2023, 08:02 pm »
Sorry. I used 'Voicing' as a synonym for tuning (or maybe calibrating). Some brands use skill and high-tech and some others not so much.
But you do use speaker cables for these tests, don't you?

H

Yes very short and generic

brj

Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #35 on: 5 Feb 2023, 11:19 pm »
From Empirical Audio:

Is it better to have short interconnects and long speaker cables or visa-versa?

TL:DR takeaway:

"Regardless of the cost of interconnect and speaker cables, it is always better to make the interconnects shorter and the speaker cable longer."

James Tanner

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #36 on: 5 Feb 2023, 11:47 pm »
Hi Zigue - so at this point total confusion - are you sorry you asked  :duh:

james

Elizabeth

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #37 on: 6 Feb 2023, 12:45 am »
I have to disagree about total confusion. Most people agree long interconnect short speaker wires. Something like 95% agree
That some crazy gurus** swear by short IC and long speaker cables just means yes there are always going to be people who have to do every thing backwards just to be obstinate  :o
In reality it is not going to be a big deal either way. Someone who is stuck using short IC and long speaker wires is going to be almost as happy. It is again, a small difference,(that many may not be able to hear any difference anyway!)

unrelated rant ignore freely....  :roll:
**Like the folks who insist you use poorly insulated 22 Gauge wire held together with packing tape for the AC cord to power your Amp.. And sell that stuff retail... Go ahead.. Die.. not my problem
« Last Edit: 6 Feb 2023, 04:26 pm by Elizabeth »

whydontumarryit

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #38 on: 6 Feb 2023, 08:30 pm »


There is no situation where the lengths of either cable would have a detrimental effect on sound quality when the components you have (the Bryston) are designed to be load invariant.

These situations where an audible difference is readily apparent is based on components with obviously measureable defects (pigs) mated with components having other measurable defects (lipstick) which account for those synergistic listening results available when by chance the combination ends up being closer to objectively measureable accuracy.
The reason so many people do it the hard way is because this is the essence of being an audiophile: controversy. Everyone else is just a sensible music lover.

If the 10% rule is followed 4 ohm speakers allow for a maximum length of ( .4 ohms/5 mohms) 80 ft. for 12 awg cable. So, I suppose that's 40 ft. for the total loop resistance or longer if the mohms/ft. is lower than my estimate.
If Bryston uses Speak-On binding posts there is little else left to chance.

For the XLRs, the electrical characteristics are immaterial in your case,  it's Belden shielded twisted pair with Neutrik connectors. Only audiophiles would argue with that recommendation.

BTW, are we supposed to believe that it is impossible for you to locate your equipment no closer than 40 ft. from your speakers? I mean, seriously.

Also, Mogami IC pairs (50ft) are $400. Mogami cable (100ft) is $700 + connectors. YMMV




Mark Korda

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Re: speaker cables length
« Reply #39 on: 6 Feb 2023, 11:06 pm »
Hi, there was this green catalog I used to get in the mail.It was from Mapleshade.The guy who started it was Pierre Sprey. I think he just passed away. His theory was 8 feet was the optimal speaker cable length. I never challenged his reasoning or found out why but the cd's he produced are the best I've ever heard .They still sell them on line. Anyone remember the Mapleshade cables and other stuff?....Mark Korda