aural thrills gold ic's-review

Marbles · « **Reply #20 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 06:02 pm »

If this were a fixed price ad and he made the mistake I would agree with you Jon, but this was an auction. It looks like he didn't get as much as he wanted to get, so he bailed.

According to Agon:

Listing Items for Auction
Once you list an item, you are entering into a contract with the high bidder. You are obligated to sell your item at the high bid price, with the only exception being Reserve Price auctions. Also, you cannot sell that item to anybody until the end of the auction you started. If the high bid does not meet your reserve, you are under no obligation to sell. In all other cases, you are obligated to sell the item to high bidder, and deliver the item within the time period specified.
You must describe the item in a truthful, accurate, and complete manner, to the best of your knowledge. Audiogon members are required to describe any malfunctions, damage, or other negatives about the item. We strongly recommend use of the Audiogon Grading Scale, when describing the physical condition of your item.

Once an auction has started, sellers can not change the starting bid, or reserve price amounts. Sellers can not change their description of the item, but may add to their description. If you wish to add to your description, log in to My Page. You can also check the auction results and contact bidders via My Page. Additional pointers on listing items can be found on our Seller's Services page.

So he was obligated to sell it to me at that price.

What's to stop anybody who auctions from saying whoops, I didn't get my price so to get what you bought you have to pay me more.

I'm not saying he didn't make an honest mistake, maybe he did, and maybe he didn't, but he should have HONORED his deal.

If I make a mistake, especially if it's over something like this $$$$$ amount, I eat it.

I think what would the venders on this site do? All of them would sell me the cable at the agreed upon price and let me know what happened and future purchases would be at the increased price.

They know they would have a loyal customer.

This guy didn't do that.

Marbles · « **Reply #21 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 06:32 pm »

In a Tit for Tat, he just left me negative feedback, because I left one for him.

He's a real class act (NOT).

Caveat Emptor with him.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 08:32 pm »

Oh, Marbles, I hate hearing this stuff.....

If this guy was ethical, he would just come clean, say (perhaps) that he had intended for the auction to be higher, honor your purchase and wish you well. If it smells fishy, it's a fish

It reminds me of a situation I got into a couple years ago; one that turned out far better because I was dealing with a person with ethics.

I had heard that little Isonode feet from Brightstar Audio were effective and cheap. I've never dealt with them, so I visited their site. I saw they had several pair of used feet from demos, etc. Why not, I figured, and ordered a few dozen different sized ones via PayPal online (at 40% off regular price I think).

About 10 days later, several pair showed up from cross country...brand new in package! I was shocked - not at all unhappy. I looked at their website and I saw that the used Isonodes were no longer available.

Now, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure either they didn't update their website and I ordered Isonodes that were loooong gone or they just ran out...and they honored the price anyway.

I never had the chance to thank (Owner) Barry Kohan for this, but I guess I am now by re-telling this story for 2000+ AudioCirclers.

Bright Star Audio ownership HAS ethics; Aural Thrills ownership think they do.

http://www.brightstaraudio.com/isonode.htm

Damn, I'm sorry you were humped, don't let it ruin your day......ther are beter folks out there.

Agrippa · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 09:22 pm »

A little bit of perspective wouldn't hurt here, now would it? A single instance such as this hardly makes somebody the Son of Satan, as some appear to think. I can hardly think of a single company I've dealt with up through the years (in any line of business) which hasn't (in my opinion) once or twice gotten something wrong. Do I think they're the necessarily the worst thing since the plague because of a bad deal or two? Hardly! You didn't get what you wanted, Marbles? Oh well, happens to me all the time. You got your money back though, which, quite frankly, isn't something you can count on these days...

Just to balance the scores a little, I won two of AT's (and I had never heard of them/him before btw, so no link between AT and me) auctions a few days ago, one for an active gold IC and one "ordinary" gold. I sent off a mail saying that whilst only one active IC's had been on offer, I really wanted two. However, my budget's limited to $X at this time and would he be willing to sell me what I wanted for a few (very few) bucks more? Got a mail back within the half hour, saying "no problem, can do".

I doubt there's a single company on earth with a perfect record of happy customers and frankly the incident referred to above is of no significance when you look at the vast no. of truly crooked merchants out there.

Agrippa

Marbles · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 09:48 pm »

Agrippa, good luck with your purchase, I'm glad he honored it and let you buy two at that price, or at least at the price you wanted.

I'm just looking for my pound of flesh. He compounded his "mistake" by not honoring the auction. This goes to show what kind of a guy he is. He compromised his integrity for $50.

I just want people to understand who they are dealing with when they buy from him.

The cable in his auction looks like a very nice one. To me he reminds me of Peter Thompson of AV Reality. He might have great products (I don't know for sure about that, not having heard one) but to me his customer service is lacking. Like you mentioned, If he was totally crooked he would have kept my money.

Is this a monumental mistake on his part? I don't know, but not honoring an auction because it didn't go $50 higher than he expected, or he made a mistake and priced his initial price $50 lower than he should have shouts volumes about him.

Am I bent that he didn't honor his auction, YES.

Do I have an obligation to let people know what kind of dealings I had with him? I think so.
I bet you will ask about the return policy at the least now

Agrippa · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 10:29 pm »

Hey, I understand that you're pissed off and I agree that you have a reason to be, no quarrel there whatsoever mate. I'm just pointing out that it really ain't a big deal as you got an apology and your dosh returned. I'd be a bit miffed too, if it was me, but I've certainly experienced A LOT worse.

Had we been talking about a big company here, making loads of dosh, then I'd be right beside you

. However, with a one-man garage outfit start-up like this, I think it's fair to give the guy some slack. If he's just recently taken the plunge and is attempting to live off what he's doing, his finances may not be all that hot and fifty bucks may actually mean something. Not a perfect excuse for what happened, but one I'd personally be willing to live with. Then again, I may be totally wrong here and the guy may be rolling in green (somehow I doubt it...).

In any case, you've not exactly been screwed over by the guy and if I were you I'd have another go - unless I'm very much mistaken (which I frequently am), you're not gonna get actively shielded IC's anywhere else for the price.

On a different track completely, how's that Teres TT of yours? Lovely-looking things and one of the few other makes I'd consider besides Nottingham.

Agrippa

rosconey · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 10:39 pm »

we can argue till cats fuck dogs-
if he was a good man he would have honored the auction and eatin his loss- at the minimum he could have asked to split the difference-

dear sir
i fucked up on my listing -the cable comes with copper not silver connectors-would you be willing to split the 50$ cost difference?
if not i under stand and will honor my auction-

thats all it would have taken

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 10:48 pm »

Retaliating against Marbles posting negative feedback sounds a little petty, too. That doesn't show a lot of class.

Marbles · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 10:49 pm »

Agrippa, I love the Teres. If you get one you should really try the wood clamp.

Chris Brady is one of the good guys.

The arm/cart/phono pre all add a lot to a vinyl playback system and the combo of the SME IV arm and SL RG8 cart are special.

With different carts, I might suggest a different arm, but for my RG8, it is very nice.

The Hagtech Cornet pre with all upgraded parts and NOS tubes is killer.
I had Wayne at Bolder cables rewire it with Bolder Nitro and he put Bybees on the outputs and S&B step up transformers on the inputs internally in the case.

All in all I am VERY pleased with my vinyl playback.

I really like my digital playback and was hoping the AT digicable would increase the layering in the soundstage to the amount I have in my vinyl source.

Agrippa · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 11:10 pm »

rosconey & Rob: sorry if it felt like I came out gunning against Marbles; that was really not my intention. To be honest, I wrote what I did simply because all too often these threads turn into pure shit-slinging rants, where some company/manufacturer/dealer/whatever gets utterly reviled on the basis of a single, slightly iffy, experience someone's had. I really just wanted to chime in before that happened. As it turned out, I probably didn't need to, maybe shouldn't have and certainly should have made it clearer that I wasn't targeting Marbles....

Slightly conditional apology accepted?

Agrippa

rosconey · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 11:11 pm »

its a bitch because his cable does sound very smooth- detailed and you can listen 8 straight hours and want more-

LETS GO ORANGE !!!!!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 11:14 pm »

Don't worry about it- Marbles deserves to be targeted occasionally!

Of course, I don't really know the whole story, but I just think if it was me, I'd rather take a bath on the peice that have my rep go thru the wringer for $50!

Agrippa · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Mar 2004, 11:19 pm »

Sounds good, Marbles! Can't say I'm familiar with most of the stuff you've got (should perhaps mention that I live in Norway...), but I've heard the (or "a") Teres and I'm quite familiar with the arm and cartridge. I'm sure it's a great combo.

We'll see in a few years I guess - for now the Spacedeck is all I need and want (long may that last!), but the urge will no doubt hit me sooner or later, at which time a Teres will be on the (very short) shortlist.

Enjoy the music and apologies if I ruffled your feathers!

Agrippa

Marbles · « **Reply #33 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 12:07 am »

Quote from: Agrippa

Sounds good, Marbles! Can't say I'm familiar with most of the stuff you've got (should perhaps mention that I live in Norway...), but I've heard the (or "a") Teres and I'm quite familiar with the arm and cartridge. I'm sure it's a great combo.

We'll see in a few years I guess - for now the Spacedeck is all I need and want (long may that last!), but the urge will no doubt hit me sooner or later, at which time a Teres will be on the (very short) shortlist.

Enjoy the music and apologies if I ruffled your feathers!

Agrippa

No problems Agrippa, glad to have you here on Audiocircle.

Jon L · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 12:33 am »

Man, really hate to see stuff like this happen. Now both Marbles and Aural Thrills have a negative feedback on Agon, and I've seen some Agoners who plain refuse to even accept bids from anyone with a single negative feedback. Stuff like this just shouldn't happen for lousy $50.

Come on guys, I've met my share of Audio people with some seriously questionable character, but by and large we are a group of people who often sacrifice time, sweat, hard-earned cash in the service of music, both as manufacturers and listeners. We really should help each other out b/c God knows non-audiophiles just don't "get" us...

Marbles · « **Reply #35 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 12:55 am »

Jon L, I agree with you. It is forums like this where you can get the inside scoop on who the good guys are and who they aren't.

I think it is important that there be both negative and positive feedback when it is warranted.

That's how us audiophiles come together and help each other out.

I have been very factual on the details of what happened. It is up to those who read this to decide if they want to deal with me or Tom (AT).

He didn't honor an auction because of his own mistake. The $ amount was $50.

He refunded my paypal payment. So I am out no money. I never said that was the point or I was ripped off.

He sold his ethics for $50. Fellow audiophiles should know that.

I never said don't buy from him, I DID say caveat emptor.

I did say his products look nice.

For me there are too many good cable manufacturers for me to screw around with AT no matter how good (or bad) his cables are.

I said it on HD a long time ago. I would rather buy the second best product from someone I like rather then the best product from someone I didn't.

The big picture is he made a mistake that he could have easily rectified, instead he saved $50 and soiled his reputation. I feel I owe it to the audiophiles to tell the story and let them decide what they want to do.

Marbles · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 01:09 am »

BTW, with regards to Agon and negative feedback.

I have never tried to remove negative feedback having never received any until now, but from what I gather from posts on AA, if you can't get negative feedback removed, you must have really screwed up.

I beleive I will have my negative feedback removed.

The problem is I think that AT will have the negative feedback I left on them removed too.

Don't place TOO much faith in Agons feedback.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #37 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 04:08 am »

Martha Stewart tried to save $51,000.00....it cost her a lot more! AT should have honored the bid

....IMHO ! Word of mouth works both ways !!

Marbles · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 06:53 pm »

Here is Aural Thrills response:

It seems he is having a problem logging in according to some members here so I am posting it.

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/audio%20dispute.htm

Please read what he says about me and read my emails to him

Agrippa · « **Reply #39 on:** 15 Mar 2004, 07:07 pm »

Interesting....and quite sad, really.

As far as I can see, you're both in the wrong here. Tom for not honouring the deal under the stated auction rules. You, for being way to quick with the bad language. "welching out on your side of the deal", "should you come to your senses " and "I will make sure that others know of your business practices" are hardly statements conducive to arriving at an amicable solution.

Frankly I would suggest you both take this as a learning experience and behave differently in the future.

Agrippa