Looking for recommendations for TUBE preamp (<$3000) to pair with big SS amp

Bob2 · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Nov 2018, 08:48 pm »

Quote from: sunnydaze on 13 Nov 2018, 08:23 pm

According to your linked website, the Aretha model uses 6sl7 tubes, not 6sn7.

As per the same website, the Ella model uses 6sn7.

I did type the wrong info. It did indeed arrive with the 6sl7 tubes.
I do have 6SN7's in it now..

Thanks very much sunnydaze!

sunnydaze · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Nov 2018, 08:59 pm »

Hmmmm, interesting......

So let me get this straight...
You have the Aretha model and are using 6sn7 tubes?

I didn't think they were a direct replacement for 6sl7!

Bob2 · « **Reply #22 on:** 13 Nov 2018, 09:08 pm »

You are correct. They are not a direct replacement..
That said I felt the 6sl7 had a bit too much gain. So after doing some research I picked up the 6SN7s.
They have probably 600 hours of use so far.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 Nov 2018, 09:38 pm »

Did you check with the builder to make sure they are safe and no detriment to the circuit?

I only ask because I'd like to consider possibly buying this preamp, and I'm curious about all its options and features.

Bob2 · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 Nov 2018, 10:28 pm »

Quote from: sunnydaze on 13 Nov 2018, 09:38 pm

Did you check with the builder? I only ask because I'd like to consider possibly buying this preamp, and I'm curious about all its options and features.

I did try to contact them. Seems like something was going on with them at the time. It was about the time the owner moved from Colorado.
I did quite a bit of research though.
I found this reply on Audiogon:
Same in only pin configuration and heater and plate voltage - but not the same operating characteristics. 6SL7's have a higher amplification and a lower transconductance than the 6SN7. The tubes are close enough, however, to WORK in each other's sockets if the amp or preamp just happens to be designed within their respective operating characteristics (my amp manufacturer informed me that the 6SL7 can work - but not substituted -in place of the 6SN7 although I haven't tried it). IMO, if your equipment is designed around one or the other, use just that. I doubt that any amp designer would be surprised to learn that another tube than spec'd sounds better in his topology.

I found that a lot of the experts said it will not work/will work types of comments. As with many things a consensus will never happen.
I did call an E.E. Professor friend that is into high end audio. Asked him about using the 6SN7. Explained that I had not been able to contact builder of the preamp. Emailed the quote from Audiogon to him and he agreed with it while adding the caveat that I should keep an eye on it.
I can say with many hours using the 6SN7 that I like the sound a bit more. Either I got lucky or the amp is very forgiving.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 01:26 am »

Thanks so much for the info!

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 01:37 am »

Tube-o-phile circle rocks!!

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions!

Elizabeth, thank you for your insights on purchasing used gear and things to look for, Bob2 for offering to try your own pre-amp! man that's nice of you, but i'm pretty sure you're not nearby..but would love to. Thanks to Greyhound Fan for happy hunting wishes - and recommending Audio Research AND sending links - awesome man. thanks RPM 123 for intel on a product for sale now, thanks Jake for reminding me to think about impedance loads on input/output stages of amp/preamp. thank you so much Michael for recounting a story of your first tube amp and introduction to Don Sachs and for sending 3 great links! big thanks to Lucky guy who related to my musical inclinations and offered some suggestions based on his Bryston amp (and, I too have a Bryston amp!) - how cool is that! Johnny, thanks for 3 straight up recommendations, and AVTA, wolfe and gab for the Schiit nod. and finally to Emil for checking in on whether i am confused and overwhelmed.

phew! that's a lot.

Ok time for some reading.... This is fun folks - thanks again for all your help.
really respect your collective tube experience - as well as offering to help me out.
Of all the crap going on in the world - it's great to connect with music fans!

TJ

ps. snowed all day today. going down to -18C with windchill tonight. good music listening weather

Elizabeth · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 02:34 am »

You are welcome, and GOOD LUCK!

twitch54 · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 02:57 am »

TJ, while you've got a lot of interesting recommendations there are a couple things I'm surprised nobody has asked you yet (maybe I missed it). What is the 300 watt SS amp that you will be using ? I ask this because synergy of pre-amp to amp is important. What I speak of is impedance matching of the two components. A general rule of thumb is that the amps input impedance be at least 10 times higher than the output impedance of the preamp thus providing a flat freq response. Again, generally speaking this is not an issue but regardless one you should be aware of.

As for tube preamp choices...........

Cary Audio - classic tube 'lush'
Conrad Johnson - " " "
Audio Research - neutral
Rogue audio - a sweet spot for the $$ IMO

good luck !

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 03:22 am »

Hi Twitch
Yes, thanks, Jake gave me a head's up re. impedance matching.
My current amp, that i just sold, is the Bryston 4BSST2.
My new amp is the Bryston 4B Cubed. due to arrive in 2-3 weeks.
I think the impedance is 29K ohms, unbalanced in.

Loving what I see from Don's customs pre's. wow.

TJ

Les Lammers · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: Bob2 on 13 Nov 2018, 07:57 pm

Take a look here:http://www.erhard-audio.com/ Formerly know as Tube Nirvana.

I had Holger build an "Aretha" preamp. Uses 6SN7 tubes. Excellent build quality.
It has been trouble free for the three years I have had it. It now is available with remote.
I have used this with my MKIII mono blocks as well as my Stratos Extreme.
Sound is Excellent.
Welcome to give it a listen if you are in the area.

Hello Bob,

I'm considering the Aretha because of the tone controls. What is your opinion of their functionality?

TIA,

Les

Well within the price range. I would rate this as comparable to the Sachs unit.

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Nov 2018, 04:53 pm »

Has anyone tried..... Sonic Frontiers Line 2?

JackD · « **Reply #32 on:** 15 Nov 2018, 03:49 am »

I own a Line 2 SE+ that I haven't used in a while. I replaced it with the PS Audio BHK preamp. The Line 2 is a very good unit especially if you get one that has been upgraded and checked out by Parts Connexion.

SteveFord · « **Reply #33 on:** 15 Nov 2018, 10:22 am »

I have an SFL-2 and it's very nice.
Lots of detail but if you want tube warmth it's not the one for you.

Bob2 · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 Nov 2018, 01:05 pm »

"Hello Bob,

I'm considering the Aretha because of the tone controls. What is your opinion of their functionality?

TIA,

Les"

I'm probably in the minority in that I like having the tone controls. I feel these work very well although I have little experience with other units. I usually make minor adjustments. Usually adjusting bass on some albums to bring it up just a bit.
If all music was well mastered there may not be a need for tone controls.
You could inquire about the addition of a switch to remove them from the signal chain in the preamp for those times you find it necessary.
Good luck with your search!

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Nov 2018, 01:16 am »

Quote from: SteveFord on 15 Nov 2018, 10:22 am

I have an SFL-2 and it's very nice.
Lots of detail but if you want tube warmth it's not the one for you.

thanks man!

T

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 Nov 2018, 01:19 am »

Has anyone tried..... tube preamp (big tubes) > Bryston 4B > Maggies (3.7) ?

Elizabeth, i'm guessing you have something to add here....hopefully.

.

thanks all
TJ

SteveFord · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Nov 2018, 01:28 am »

I'll give a third recommendation for the deHavilland UltraVerve 3.
That's what I use with my 3.7s and while it doesn't have the detail retrieval of the Sonic Frontiers gear it does sound awfully nice.
Similar to the Audio Research gear but a bit livelier if that makes any sense.

3.7s are pretty revealing speakers so you need a really good preamp with them.

TJ-Sully · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Nov 2018, 04:55 am »

thanks steveford. i have a really good solid state preamp. i'll give 'er a go - but seriously looking at swapping it out for tubes. that deHavilland looks awfully nice. thanks for sharing.
TJ

Elizabeth · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Nov 2018, 01:24 pm »

I am called. Nice to be wanted..
My thoughts Yes tube preamp with Bryston amp. good. (Only recently I find I no longer desperately feel I need a tube preamp with my setup. Spending $3000 on duplex outlets seems to have cured what ailed my setup using just solid state preamps. I broke my favorite tube preamp, and need to get it fixed.. I have a feeling if I DO.. I will certainly be happy to have it back in ...)
The thing is....
Most modern tube preamps are not very much sound wise the old tube preamp.
A lot of new tube designs (using other different tubes) are really trying hard to NOT sound like tubes.
SO I would say, if you want a classic tube sound, to buy specifically a tube preamp using ONLY the following tubes:
12AX7/12AU7
6Dj8
6SN7 or 6SN7GT
(I am not a tube genius, so some others might be good, but most of the latest tubes just are trying hard to NOT sound like tubes, yet have all the tube shortcomings! they do sound cleaner, more acurate. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater??)
The ARC like the Audio Research Reference 5SE or 6 are pretty good sounding.. Great sounding..use modern tubes.... but have a shorter than the old 12AX7 sort tube life. I mean if I actually bought one, I would be replacing tubes EVERY TEN MONTHS at least.(since I play music about ten hours a day) Not good..
Where a 12AX7 type, once every three years, even if left on 24/7 !!!! big difference.

Some great tube preamps use just two tubes, some four, some lots more. More means MORE MONEY... So to me 4 is the limit. 5 if it uses a tube rectifier.
Tube preamps are more personal. and purchasing one is more user specific, how it sounds, tube use, what tubes... I have really enjoyed some tube preamps. the other downside is tube preamps break more than solid state, in my experience. I never have had a SS preamp have any problems. Tube ones? yes yes yes. But worth it? yes.