NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!

DanTheMan · « **Reply #620 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 04:44 am »

Patrick, you got my vote for best looking, most functional panels to date! They have a cool, modern, simple and functional look. Very iPodish. They look like they will last just fine as long as you don't do anything stupid to them (hit, kick, pile stuff on while moving, etc...). Me gusta mucho man!

Dan

usp1 · « **Reply #621 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 03:28 pm »

Patrick, Thanks for the info on the stand. Incidentally, looking closely at your pics I noticed something that may potentially cause a problem. The wires seem to run very close to the panel and they may end up touching it at some later date. This causes an awful buzzing sound especially with bass. You may want to clip em to the spline holding the exciters. Just a thought.

irishpatrick33 · « **Reply #622 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 01:31 am »

I was going to do something about the wires. But for right now they are holding true. Though at some point in time they might get a mind of their own and start wondering. Easy fix though. Actually there is less space between the panel and the solder connection on the speaker terminal. While I was painting them the balsa spine warped a little and brought it even closer. The only thing preventing the two from getting closer together is the layered air conditioning foam under the panel.

xyr · « **Reply #623 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 03:05 am »

Wow! Very elegant panels, irishpatrick33. Great job.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #624 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 04:51 am »

Yea, I can't get over them!

They look great patrick.

sedge · « **Reply #625 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 03:05 pm »

Zygadr
Had a look on the NET for forex smart ,look’s promising and not expensive ,please keep us informed on your findings .
So far I have been using two types of panels ,one is a thin metal panel [which I have used in various sizes from small to large ] and the other a 6x2 ft rigid foam core of 10 ml thickness .
The two panel materials sound very good [clean and clear ] even though they are totally different ,this has been done using only one exciter .
I have now glued 4 exciters to the 6x2 rigid foam core and will let you know how it sounds .
Irishpatrick33
Well done ,a finished product .
I have used so many panels ,I am starting to wonder if I will ever get there.
Sedge.

j gale · « **Reply #626 on:** 6 Jan 2010, 05:52 pm »

I sent Email to Alcan asking about forex in N. America. They said in N. America it is known as Sintra. Sintra has been around for quite awhile. It would seem a bit heavy to me, but the more I play with this the more I find that my assumptions aren't necessarily so.

irishpatrick33 · « **Reply #627 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 12:23 am »

Thanks for the positive response guys. Again, thanks everybody for their help and pioneering.

Giving the speakers some more listening time, I wonder whether I should upgrade the T-amp and grab a NuForce Icon perhaps. Because I am pleasantly surprised.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #628 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 06:30 am »

Patrick, do you have the ability to make any measurements? The bigger amp won't get you too much more output for the money if that's what you're looking for. For a wider FR, you may want to measure what your panels are doing now to see what's the limiting factor. Other than that I'd say just stick with what you got for what you've got in it. Looks cool as hell. Multiple exciters might be a better investment than an amp. It would be cool if you got 6 more decibels each time you doubled the number of exciters. 6 more DB with each doing half the work.... seems nice to me. Anyone know if this theory works out in practice on panels? I'd think it should, but maybe placement cancellation may negate any benefits of such an arrangement.

Wish I knew.

Dan

bobloblob · « **Reply #629 on:** 7 Jan 2010, 07:13 pm »

irishpatrick33-

I didn't see which of the Sonic Impact T-amp models you are using. If it's like the original version, they start rolling off rather quickly at 100Hz. See here:

http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/measure/5066-freq.html

There are mods out there that fix this:

http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/start.html

I haven't done this myself, just passing on the info. If You have the better SI T-amp, disregard the above. It is not supposed to have the bass roll-off that the cheaper model has.

irishpatrick33 · « **Reply #630 on:** 8 Jan 2010, 12:48 am »

I have no instruments to take measurements.

Essentially, it is the original T-amp rebranded under the Dayton name. They are a great value, but lack bass. Which is why you see all of the mods for it. I have tried those mods myself. I have trashed many of these amps. I am a novice at soldering, with tools to match. Must be an issue with me because nobody else seemed to have my issues. None the less, I am done trying to mod the tiny board.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #631 on:** 8 Jan 2010, 05:49 am »

Come to think of it, you shouldn't get 6 dbs each time you double b/c you won't get twice the surface area. Man do I wish someone could take measurements. After I get a few projects done I'll make and take my own but perhaps this thread will be dead by then.

Seems like the pace is slowing--which totally sucks b/c I think Patricks panels are very inspirational.

Dan

cometarossa · « **Reply #632 on:** 8 Jan 2010, 09:46 am »

Zygadr please don't empty the PE warehouse, i need some exciters too

cometarossa · « **Reply #633 on:** 8 Jan 2010, 09:56 am »

With this I hope to do a good thing, here's the link for the manual of NXT simulation software...
Very interesting...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/113ljzlezam/PanSys Manual.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mdzenjjnc4m/PanSys Manual - Examples.pdf

j gale · « **Reply #634 on:** 9 Jan 2010, 04:02 pm »

Bring it on!! Bring on the storm. I have to say that this adventure has been the most fun I have had in a long time. One reason is better sound. Not just better---MUCH BETTER. Another is the fact that improvements are a result of experimentation rather than the application of theory. I suppose that eventually there will be well understood rules for this technology but, we are not there yet. The cost of admission is small. Very little money and lots of curiosity. One mistake is to equate the cost of exciters with quality. The cheap 2 for $5 exciters from PE are excellent. They are only cheap because they are a buy out. I hope the more expensive ones prove to be a step up. Only way to find out is to try one.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #635 on:** 10 Jan 2010, 03:45 am »

Quote

I have made some very positive discoveries towards advancing on the sound produced by this technology and can assure you that a STORM IS BREWING!

Bring it on! Don't just say it, spray it! aa

Quote

One reason is better sound. Not just better---MUCH BETTER.

Oh? How so?

Quantification isn't easy.

Dan

DanTheMan · « **Reply #636 on:** 10 Jan 2010, 05:00 pm »

Ziggy, how long until we see some photos? IOWs how close are you to unveiling this new design?

Dan

doug s. · « **Reply #637 on:** 10 Jan 2010, 07:27 pm »

Quote from: DanTheMan on 8 Jan 2010, 05:49 am

Come to think of it, you shouldn't get 6 dbs each time you double b/c you won't get twice the surface area. Man do I wish someone could take measurements. After I get a few projects done I'll make and take my own but perhaps this thread will be dead by then. Seems like the pace is slowing--which totally sucks b/c I think Patricks panels are very inspirational.

Dan

even disregarding surface area, doubling the amount of (any) drivers will give you a 3db increase, not 6db. i.e.:
1 90db driver=90db
2 90db drivers=93db
4 90db drivers=96db
8 90db drivers=99db
16 90db drivers=102db
etc...

doug s.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #638 on:** 11 Jan 2010, 02:24 am »

Doug, that works if you don't account for impedance, but halving the impedance will also give 3dB thus 3+3=6 if you run parallel connections. Running each off it's own amp should work how you describe. Of course you can't do parallel infinitely or you'll fry your amp. Eventually you have to start adding some series connections depending on what your amp can do.
Theoretically,
1 driver=90
2 drivers in parallel=96
2 drivers in series=90

and there are a numbers of ways this can all add up when you get to multiple drivers. That's why I was wondering what others have measured so we can know what we're going to get when we add more drivers. I think that the addition of regular drivers is well understood by most people who are into DIY audio, but this stuff is different. I don't know how the rules apply here. I know Ziggy says he's getting more efficiency by going with more exciters, but how much and at how many I don't know. It gets hard to make an informed decision and so far it looks like we're not far from square one with exciter understanding.

Dan

doug s. · « **Reply #639 on:** 11 Jan 2010, 02:53 am »

Quote from: DanTheMan on 11 Jan 2010, 02:24 am

Doug, that works if you don't account for impedance, but halving the impedance will also give 3dB thus 3+3=6 if you run parallel connections. Running each off it's own amp should work how you describe. Of course you can't do parallel infinitely or you'll fry your amp. Eventually you have to start adding some series connections depending on what your amp can do.
Theoretically,
1 driver=90
2 drivers in parallel=96
2 drivers in series=90

and there are a numbers of ways this can all add up when you get to multiple drivers. That's why I was wondering what others have measured so we can know what we're going to get when we add more drivers. I think that the addition of regular drivers is well understood by most people who are into DIY audio, but this stuff is different. I don't know how the rules apply here. I know Ziggy says he's getting more efficiency by going with more exciters, but how much and at how many I don't know. It gets hard to make an informed decision and so far it looks like we're not far from square one with exciter understanding.

Dan

uh no dan, i think you are mistaken. while it's true that some amps can double their output when its impedance is halved, (tho many cannot, especially tube amps), all this means is you may not have to turn up the wolume on your preamp as much to get 1w to your drivers when run in parallel, and you may have to turn it a bit higher to get 1w when run in series, due to the differing load the amp may see. but 1w is 1w; when a speaker is fed 1w, the increase in spl for adding speakers is as i described above. if you have one driver capable of 90db/1w, running two in series or in parallel will still theoretically give you 93db/1w.

doug s.