TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps

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wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #120 on: 1 Jan 2014, 01:48 am »

Thanks for the heads-up on these boards. They look nice, but like you, I wanted to wait and see what the verdict was on these boards. I think they're going fast.

Yes, they're starting to take off now. Thanks for sharing your observations with these amps.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #121 on: 1 Jan 2014, 03:30 pm »
I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?

This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?

I see this warning that comes with the TPA3110 Sure amp instructions. Does it mean a pre-amp should not be used at all??:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf



If this should really be a new thread, please move it.




wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #122 on: 1 Jan 2014, 03:42 pm »
I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?

This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?

I see this warning that comes with the TPA3110 Sure amp instructions. Does it mean a pre-amp should not be used at all??:
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf



If this should really be a new thread, please move it.

That's a strange warning. You can ignore it. My guess is the 3110 is set to 32 or 36db gain. So preamps with gain may need some care, but then just follow Warning 4. These direct from China components often come with poorly worded instructions, so just ignore it.

shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #123 on: 1 Jan 2014, 05:09 pm »
That's a strange warning. You can ignore it. My guess is the 3110 is set to 32 or 36db gain. So preamps with gain may need some care, but then just follow Warning 4. These direct from China components often come with poorly worded instructions, so just ignore it.

How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that?  On the eval board picture on TI's website there are jumpers for gain0 and gain1 to set the gain.  Will have to take a look at the sure board again to see if something similar exists.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #124 on: 1 Jan 2014, 05:13 pm »
How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that?

According to the specs it has 26db gain:

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #125 on: 1 Jan 2014, 05:20 pm »
According to the specs it has 26db gain:

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/320-329-parts-express-brochure.pdf

Then you can completely ignore the warning. Have no idea what they're trying to say.

@shadowlight. You change some resistors. However the Sure smd resistors are pretty darn small so unless you're real good with a solder iron you're stuck with the 26. No jumpers on there. I personally prefer the 36db gain for my setup and swapped the resistors on the 3116 board, which is easier to work on.

shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #126 on: 1 Jan 2014, 05:39 pm »
Then you can completely ignore the warning. Have no idea what they're trying to say.

@shadowlight. You change some resistors. However the Sure smd resistors are pretty darn small so unless you're real good with a solder iron you're stuck with the 26. No jumpers on there. I personally prefer the 36db gain for my setup and swapped the resistors on the 3116 board, which is easier to work on.

Just looked at the manual - http://www.sure-electronics.net/download/AA-AB32231_Ver1.0_EN.pdf and the gain is set to 26db and the input impedance is set to 30Kohm.  I can leave with that.  Would have liked the input impedance to be something higher but not willing to muck around with smd parts to switch the gain to 20db which will raise the input impedance to 60K.

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #127 on: 1 Jan 2014, 06:26 pm »
How do you change the 3110 gain from 32 or 36 to either 26 or 20 if you cared to do that?  On the eval board picture on TI's website there are jumpers for gain0 and gain1 to set the gain.  Will have to take a look at the sure board again to see if something similar exists.

I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.

I assume it's best to get these little amp boards without volume and or tone controls. My question is what is everybody recommending for controlling volume? My current set-up is PC based, and I am using the PC's volume control which I know isn't the best method.
Soo.... What is the best "Cheap-N-Cheerful" pre-amp addition to my current PC based TPA3110 set-up to control volume?

This whole pre-amp thing has me thoroughly confused. Active; passive; stepped attenuator; buffer; optocoupler; tube; solid state, etc, etc. What things do I need to consider before introducing a pre-amp ahead these little amp boards?

Section 2.6 of the Sure Electronics manual recommends that if a volume control (potentiometer or stepped attenuator) is used, it should be 50kohm. For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience. I recommend tinning the pins first and removing any excess solder with a solder sucking tool. You will need a "third hand" tool to properly position the wire on each pin to make good physical contact before soldering.

I usually use Teflon tubing to insulate the joint and serve as a strain relief on the soldered joints, but heat shrink is also good for this too.



shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #128 on: 1 Jan 2014, 06:29 pm »
I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.


I have been using the Dodd Audio preamp with the board and I am enjoying what I am hearing.

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #129 on: 1 Jan 2014, 07:06 pm »

 For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience.


Lol, and now for the wushuliu butterfinger/lazy ebay rec for pots:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMT-Resistor-Step-Attenuator-50K-Volume-Control-/220975033985?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3373236e81

You are a far better solder slinger than I. I got those Panasonics a few years and they were a PITA to work with due to tight pin spacing. But they do sound terrific. High quality, especially for the cost. I've gotten better since then. I should give them another go. Can't beat the price/performance ratio.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #130 on: 1 Jan 2014, 07:23 pm »
I've been using my Sure TPA3110D2 amp with my Audio Research LS7 line stage and PH5 phono stage with no problems. Even though I have an SMD soldering station, swapping in new resistors is a real pain.

Section 2.6 of the Sure Electronics manual recommends that if a volume control (potentiometer or stepped attenuator) is used, it should be 50kohm. For a "Cheap and Cheerful" (i.e., low cost, good performing) volume pot, I recommend Panasonic EVJ-Y10F03A54, 50kohm log taper with metal bushing. These are transparent, good-balanced volume pots, and they only cost $1.70 at Digikey. The issue that most people have with using them is the 2mm spacing between pins and the irregular pin-out. Soldering wires to these pins can be challenging, but it is possible with patience. I recommend tinning the pins first and removing any excess solder with a solder sucking tool. You will need a "third hand" tool to properly position the wire on each pin to make good physical contact before soldering.

I usually use Teflon tubing to insulate the joint and serve as a strain relief on the soldered joints, but heat shrink is also good for this too.



Thanks for the suggestion...
I guess that is truly Cheap and Cheerful :thumb: I was looking for a pre-amp solution, but I should give this a try as well. If this pot sounds pretty good, I do need more soldering experience. I wasn't thinking about getting it with 2mm spacing :roll: However, it's cheap enough to get a couple, and try it! What size wire is needed? Could I strip out the wires from Cat 5 cable? Are the 2 outside pins not used?
 Still would like C&C pre-amp suggestions...

Folsom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #131 on: 1 Jan 2014, 08:30 pm »
There are stepped attenuators on Ebay that have legs to solder onto, not just pads. They're the same thing, just with legs.

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #132 on: 1 Jan 2014, 09:19 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion...
I guess that is truly Cheap and Cheerful :thumb: I was looking for a pre-amp solution, but I should give this a try as well. If this pot sounds pretty good, I do need more soldering experience. I wasn't thinking about getting it with 2mm spacing :roll: However, it's cheap enough to get a couple, and try it! What size wire is needed? Could I strip out the wires from Cat 5 cable? Are the 2 outside pins not used?
 Still would like C&C pre-amp suggestions...

I think a separate thread is a good idea, but here's my vote given your budget:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-Dependant-Resistor-3-input-Preamp-Kit-/291043290543?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item43c3882daf

they have a cheaper single input version as well.

Also

http://www.firstwatt.com/b1.html
https://www.passdiy.com/store

shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #133 on: 1 Jan 2014, 09:29 pm »
For C&C Preamp - I am thinking about getting the Aikido 6SN7 preamp and making an integrated amp/preamp.  The other option is checking in with Gary Dodd (depending on how his health is doing) and see if he still has the DIY buffer kit.


 

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #134 on: 1 Jan 2014, 09:32 pm »
For C&C Preamp - I am thinking about getting the Aikido 6SN7 preamp and making an integrated amp/preamp.  The other option is checking in with Gary Dodd (depending on how his health is doing) and see if he still has the DIY buffer kit.



Aikidos are nice. Just be mindful of the gain matching.

mboxler

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #135 on: 1 Jan 2014, 11:30 pm »



In the above picture, could one solder a 2200uf cap to the GRD | VCC holes, and solder the battery or power supply wires directly to the cap (from the bottom)?  The 2200uf cap would fully charge, then supply the stock 220uf caps as needed.

Or is that a dumb idea.   :oops:

Mike

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #136 on: 2 Jan 2014, 12:08 am »
That is not a dumb idea. Perhaps instead, you could solder a screw terminal block at the DC power input and feed your power supply wires along with the leads of a 2,200uF / 25V cap ("+" to "+" and "-" to "-"). This way, you'll have the ability to test different caps and levels of capacitance to get the sound quality you want. I would still replace the stock 220uF / 25V power supply caps with better 1,000 to 1,500uF / 25V low ESR caps. You want really good, low ESR caps as close to the amplifier chip as possible.

Taterworks

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #137 on: 2 Jan 2014, 01:05 am »
Just to chime in here, I've been investigating these chips and I picked up a Sure TPA3110 amp board and a Yuanjing TPA3116 board.

I tried the Sure TPA3110 amp board at my desktop, and found that Sure's omission of output filter inductors caused the TPA3110 board to turn my speaker wires into powerful RF noise antennas, which interfered with my wireless mouse and keyboard when the amp was played at levels above quiet background music. Even though TI uses the term "Filter-Free" for these amp chips, they do recommend having a ferrite bead placed on each output lead (or that PCB-mounted ferrite beads be used to achieve the same thing).

I notice a lot of these TPA3110-based DIY amps don't have any sort of filtering on the outputs. Have any of you noticed any ill effects from RFI emissions?

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #138 on: 2 Jan 2014, 01:55 am »
None yet, but I wouldn't be surprised with the amp out in the open. I did try to keep the signal paths and speaker cable lengths minimized. With my Klipsch Forte IIs I have not noticed any interference issues. I did have a problem when I had AT&T's GSM wireless service a while back. My phone would emit signals that would come through the speakers. It was annoying.

Do you have any interference problems with the Yuan Jing TPA3116D2 amplifier?

Taterworks

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #139 on: 2 Jan 2014, 04:56 am »
That is not a dumb idea. Perhaps instead, you could solder a screw terminal block at the DC power input and feed your power supply wires along with the leads of a 2,200uF / 25V cap ("+" to "+" and "-" to "-"). This way, you'll have the ability to test different caps and levels of capacitance to get the sound quality you want. I would still replace the stock 220uF / 25V power supply caps with better 1,000 to 1,500uF / 25V low ESR caps. You want really good, low ESR caps as close to the amplifier chip as possible.

For grins, I took a Panasonic 2200uF 35V electrolytic cap and soldered it across J6 on my Sure TPA3110 board. This extra reservoir capacitance seems to have done a lot for bass dynamics. It no longer sounds like a "low-power" amp even when playing bombastic film scores through my moderately low-eff desktop speakers (W4-1052 full range with contour filters). I'm using the wall-wart SMPS from my DTA-1 to power the TPA3110 board, and I think the sound surpasses that of the DTA-1. Even though it's still a very 'literal' sounding amp as most TI amp chips are (which I like), without too much in the way of added sweeteners, it's still very low-distortion, and has a ton of grunt with this added capacitance. This goes to show how dependent these amps are on a good stiffened power supply. I found a FSP Group 40W 12V supply in a junk bin at work that I'm going to bring home to use with this board to make sure it's never wanting for current.

My ferrite beads are on the way. I will report back. Hopefully these work - it will be nice to have a working Class-D amplifier with no inductors in the output filter to saturate. I read about these inductors in output filters commonly being undersized for the task.