AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: Marius on 11 Sep 2017, 02:02 pm
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Where will speaker design go in the next 10 or 20 years? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be)
Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/)
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Marius
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Where will speaker design go in the next 10 or 20 years? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be)
Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/)
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Marius
Brain/ear implants will allow music to be steamed into your auditory circuits. No wires. Nothing. A bit like that movie, Minority Report.
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I imagine wireless tech will continue to evolve and may become mainstream (speaker wires, DAC wires etc).
Then again, not much penetration by any of that in the last 10 years for speakers, though the tech does continue to change.
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Headphones. As our listening spaces get smaller and more compromised (poor shape, no isolation, shared), this is the logical solution.
A return to more full bodied, less lean, less tight, less constipated sound as the pendulum of trends swing back.
Active/powered speakers that can take advantage of wireless setups while taking up less space, produce more bass, and use various forms of DSP to "fit the room".
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The Apple Homepod may offer some portent as to our future direction with speakers. I'm very interested to see what they have up their sleeves. Aren't you?
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Where will speaker design go in the next 10 or 20 years? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be)
Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/)
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Marius
A game changer is coming! :o
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168408)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXthZyUhG0Q
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Agree with JLM on both his points. Here is a link to download a report (http://nationalpublicmedia.com/smart-audio-report/) on how 'smart' speakers are affecting the home music market. This segment is growing by leaps and bounds while the high-end market seems to be stagnating while focusing on getting a smaller and smaller number of people to spend more and more on their systems. It's a pretty eye-opening report- and not good news for the 'traditional' component audio world.
Headphones are about the only way to get high end audio performance without spending sums of money that most people consider absurd.
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Headphones are about the only way to get high end audio performance without spending sums of money that most people consider absurd.
Some of these same people are probably driving cars that cost in excess of $30-50K.
A really fine-sounding two ch audio setup can be had for $20K. Or less. Not pocket change, but the bar has been set too high by the likes of TAS and other periodicals that review uber-expensive gear.
Agree with JLM, but no HP setup will ever get close to the 3D imaging that a floor/near-field monitor can achieve. imho.
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Where will speaker design go in the next 10 or 20 years? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be)
Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/)
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Marius
We will just download the files straight ino our brain, no speakers needed. Did you see the new movie with Scarlett Johannsen where people have an ethernet port on the back of their neck? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4VmJcZR0Yg
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For recreating "live" sound, headphones will have a hard time replacing speakers, as the realistic reproduction of music is both auditory and tactile/palpable.
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Where speaker design is going next year is wireless/active speakers:
http://soundstageglobal.com/index.php/shows-events/cedia-expo-2017-san-diego-usa/716-cedia-expo-2017-wireless-speakers
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Hi Folks,
We have looked at wireless active speakers - the BryFi product is our first attempt at a completely wireless playback system
BUT - the problem I see if you still have to supply POWER to the internal amps and such - so you either have an interconnect cable attached to the speaker or you have a power cable. :scratch:
james
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Hi Folks,
We have looked at wireless active speakers - the BryFi product is our first attempt at a completely wireless playback system
BUT - the problem I see if you still have to supply POWER to the internal amps and such - so you either have an interconnect cable attached to the speaker or you have a power cable. :scratch:
james
Maybe Tesla can help 8)
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Maybe Tesla can help 8)
Good one :thumb:
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Hi Folks,
We have looked at wireless active speakers - the BryFi product is our first attempt at a completely wireless playback system
BUT - the problem I see if you still have to supply POWER to the internal amps and such - so you either have an interconnect cable attached to the speaker or you have a power cable. :scratch:
james
I see some companies have the amp in one speaker and you run a wire from that speaker to the second speaker. Fine for desktops, terrible for HT ( I have used wireless setups in the past for my surrounds).
Try and have it so the customer can use it in a HT setup as well as a desktop where they can plug the wireless transmitter into the corresponding RCA jacks on the processor for each speaker. KEF neglected to do this for the active LS50 which made it an automatic no go for HT use.
I can manage plugging my surround speakers into a nearby wall outlet but running speaker cables to the back of the room or to another room is just a PIA. I also like the flexibility of using wireless speakers for zone 2 and 3 from your processor.
https://www.lifewire.com/wireless-speakers-and-home-theater-1846770
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I see some companies have the amp in one speaker and you run a wire from that speaker to the second speaker. Fine for desktops, terrible for HT ( I have used wireless setups in the past for my surrounds).
Try and have it so the customer can use it in a HT setup as well as a desktop where they can plug the wireless transmitter into the corresponding RCA jacks on the processor for each speaker. KEF neglected to do this for the active LS50 which made it an automatic pass for HT use.
Hi
Yes the cable from the one speaker to the other also eliminated the 'timing issues between the left and right speaker (Latency) which is a serious issue.
But I still do not see how we satisfy our high misinformed custom designers unless we put power plugs all over the customers floor to allow for proper placement LOL
james
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Hi
Yes the cable from the one speaker to the other also eliminated the 'timing issues between the left and right speaker (Latency) which is a serious issue.
But I still do not see how we satisfy our high misinformed custom designers unless we put power plugs all over the customers floor to allow for proper placement LOL
james
The HT wireless speaker that I see has gotten traction is the wireless subwoofer. I use an Amphony wireless transmitter for my rear height channels and VOG channel. No latency, and works fine running RCA interconnects from it to my speakers. Everything in the back of the room, no long cables running from front to back. This works with my active speakers:
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Subwoofers-Surround/dp/B00SJ49ZJQ
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Where will speaker design go in the next 10 or 20 years? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0GOUp_u40&feature=youtu.be)
Audiophiliac, Steve Guttenberg: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/ (https://www.cnet.com/news/the-next-step-in-speaker-design-you-room-becomes-the-speaker/)
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Marius
Walls as the speaker sounds very much like Exciters/Transducers.
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Steve have a very sane vision on audio equip different from some people that are lost in surround sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIKkBgpo75I&t=55
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I will go with some kind of virtual reality AV experience. It will involve the entire room. A holodeck environment. The only place you will find box speakers will be on craigslist. :D
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Beryllium walls... :green:
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I am afraid the younger generations will dictate this, headphones and virtual reality.
I am sure holograms will be a part of it. You can have the Stones playing live in your home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbXrPWjVB5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQbMP3I5Sk
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Hi Folks,
We have looked at wireless active speakers - the BryFi product is our first attempt at a completely wireless playback system
BUT - the problem I see if you still have to supply POWER to the internal amps and such - so you either have an interconnect cable attached to the speaker or you have a power cable. :scratch:
james
re-chargable batteries, James. Not shaken of course.
charles
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Well eventually walls of sound. Plasma walls. All I want is the orgasmatron. Heck with speakers.
charles
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Maybe a bit more than 20 but telepathy is the next phase for listening to music 8)
(http://pre10.deviantart.net/c79f/th/pre/i/2013/235/f/0/gray_alien_ii_by_dewilish-d6jd12y.jpg)
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Some of these same people are probably driving cars that cost in excess of $30-50K.
A really fine-sounding two ch audio setup can be had for $20K. Or less. Not pocket change, but the bar has been set too high by the likes of TAS and other periodicals that review uber-expensive gear.
Agree with JLM, but no HP setup will ever get close to the 3D imaging that a floor/near-field monitor can achieve. imho.
It's easier to make a case for a $30K vehicle that can take you anywhere from the nearby 7-11 to Saskatchewan. A $20K audio system just sits in a room and plays music (although I've heard some that didn't, to my ears).
Speakers 'rule' for imaging, headphones 'rule' for detail would be a very oversimplified summary of my position. To me, I'd rather listen to a really good pair of headphones than a really good speaker-based system in a poor room (which I've seen more often than you'd think; I've seen many 'help with this room' type threads with high-dollar systems in 'no-hoper' rooms). In the end, neither paints an absolutely convincing picture so I guess it all comes down to situation, of which budget is a consideration for most people.
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The virtual/implant stuff isn't going to happen. At least not on any real scale. It's like the virtual reality talk. VR has been 'the future' for decades and STILL hasn't taken off. Whatever. Instead tubes have made a minor comeback, and vinyl even more so. We are tactile creatures, we are hardwired that way. So the future of speaker design will be tactile and follow the precedent of what old is new again. So what's due for a comeback? Full range/Single driver and headphones. Headphones are well under way. Full range/single driver innovations and acceptance are starting to percolate.
I also predict CDs will have a big comeback in a decade or so.
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The virtual/implant stuff isn't going to happen. At least not on any real scale. It's like the virtual reality talk. VR has been 'the future' for decades and STILL hasn't taken off. Whatever. Instead tubes have made a minor comeback, and vinyl even more so. We are tactile creatures, we are hardwired that way. So the future of speaker design will be tactile and follow the precedent of what old is new again. So what's due for a comeback? Full range/Single driver and headphones. Headphones are well under way. Full range/single driver innovations and acceptance are starting to percolate.
I also predict CDs will have a big comeback in a decade or so.
That is indeed Interesting :scratch: I happen to be building a set of Full Range speakers right now.
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I predict headphones will be the way of the future in a sort of "minority report" kind of way. They will tie in with the smart-devices du-jour and utilize whatever networking there is to create a "virtual space" to deliver selective noise cancellation and enhanced content to whatever is around you,
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If we limit ourselves to "serious audio/HT" listening, we can throw out all those Amazon Echo type (never knew I needed them) devices.
If we limit ourselves to 10 - 20 years in practical terms, we can throw out telepathy and the like.
I for one hope that the phenomenon towards "needing" to be constantly stimulated ("entertained") such as portable earbuds, TV's everywhere, and radio/streaming in every room of the house will end. It's mind numbing, limits critical thinking, and separates us from reality.
I predict various ambisonic convertors will be offered to provide decent to good 3D imaging for headphone use from traditional recordings. Much cheaper/easier than having a decent listening room (size, shape, isolated) for dedicated listening which is 98% a private function anyway. Shared listening (mostly HT) will be handled by wireless active/powered speakers except for the vintage audio crowd who like spinning vinyl and using tubes.
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I for one hope that the phenomenon towards "needing" to be constantly stimulated ("entertained") such as portable earbuds, TV's everywhere, and radio/streaming in every room of the house will end. It's mind numbing, limits critical thinking, and separates us from reality.
JLM :thumb:
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I for one hope that the phenomenon towards "needing" to be constantly stimulated ("entertained") such as portable earbuds, TV's everywhere, and radio/streaming in every room of the house will end. It's mind numbing, limits critical thinking, and separates us from reality.
JLM :thumb:
Then you get back to "reality" by turning on the news and want to escape again :cry:
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Since HeadPhones came up quickly:
Bone conducting to the next level:
Tactile it is.
https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones (https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones)
https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483 (https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483)
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Since HeadPhones came up quickly:
Bone conducting to the next level:
Tactile it is.
https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones (https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones)
https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483 (https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483)
aka: a migraine :lol:
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Bone conduction has a long way to go. Viable in 10-20 years? Hmm maybe, but not in any way that involves fidelity due to the inherent limitations of using your face as a medium. It's most effective frequency range is right in the human speech zone, and has already seen applications in tactical use and "tour guide" applications. There are also underwater ones available.
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In the realm of speakers, active units with integrated room calibrations will probably be the next surge.
It's likely that some new form of driver will be invented in the next couple decades, but I suspect it will find use in specific (probably space limited) cases rather than becoming a high fidelity device.
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I for one hope that the phenomenon towards "needing" to be constantly stimulated ("entertained") such as portable earbuds, TV's everywhere, and radio/streaming in every room of the house will end.
Unfortunately, there seems to be little likelihood of that. People are addicted to their screens. I mostly agree with your premise. I enjoy music greatly, It's one of my biggest joys in life, and a lot of what time I can find these days to listen to it is through in-ear headphones (good ones) because I'm just not able to find enough time to sit at home in front of a "System". So it's nice to be able to use some 'found time' and listen to some music with surprisingly good sound (FLAC and Tidal through my Dragonfly and SE535's are impressive, at least to me). That being said, as I get older, I increasingly enjoy times of silence. People today seem to avoid it, and maybe that's your point? My theory is that people are avoiding themselves, don't want to be alone with their own thoughts. I work in technology retail, and people are always looking for ways to use their lifestyle appliances even more- running (Way back when, when I went running, I just ran, and one of the things I liked about it was having the time to think) and even waterproof cases and earphones so they can listen in the swimming pool).
Kind of far afield of the topic here, or maybe not, as smart speakers are growing (as a share of the audio market) by leaps and bounds while "traditional" audio stagnates.
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I get instantly bored when I hear a regular monopole boxed loudspeaker even expensive, it has to stop, the sound is awful.
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Since HeadPhones came up quickly:
Bone conducting to the next level:
Tactile it is.
https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones (https://wishaddict.com/products/bone-conduction-headphones)
https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483 (https://www.facebook.com/wishaddictshop/videos/266144747238483)
That is basically a exciter/transducer like this one> https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-bct-2-bone-conducting-transducer-exciter-45mm-dia-x-25mm-h--240-612
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Unfortunately bone conducting works different in each person since the people bone head are different size, density etc
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I think we're headed to the future depicted in "Wall-E"... people being too lazy to do anything themselves. Best part was the scene where two guys are talking to each other via digital video, and end up sitting right next to each other, but still using the video system.
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I for one just like to stay informed of developments, and try not to judge too much. To each their own, and i understand (maybe should say share) the fear for constant Muzac around us, and people having earbuds 100% of their time, even when participating in traffic...
That being said there seem to be at least 2 developments of interest.
1- the technical enhancement of so called audiophile systems and
2- the development of our use of technique for our day to day activities concerning music (and much more). Which in fact is a more behavioral development.
These do not necessarily are the same, nor fight each other. There's a whole world in between. Maybe they are morphing to the same world in 10-20 years. Who knows.
The Active speakers Bryston is developing could be seen as a major development of the first, some would even consider Tidal/MQA. Others wouldn't obviously.... In any case i find myself to be fortunate to be able to enjoy best of both worlds and hope companies like Bryston stay here and develop for quality, and not so much for maximizing profit. Cause that could be another way ordering developments, not necessarily leading up to maximized quality...
I admit not a very informative post this is, still, I felt the need for complimenting Bryston on having this forum and let us all have our go.. Thanks for posting your thoughts! I really enjoy the imagination and knowledgeable posts.
Cheers,
Marius
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Good topic, Marius, thanx for starting it. I agree with you about Bryston and hi-end aspirations. I too hope that more companies would adopt the carefully weighed business ethics and science-based product development of the Bryston group.
Much of "science fiction" eventually ceases to be that, thanks to tech development and human nature. I remember reading Huxley's Brave New World in junior high. We laughed then, saying it would never happen. But it has -- genetic engineering, hypnopedia, psychopharm, etc. That book was published in 1932 and was likely shrugged off as nonsense. Still is a classic, and no longer a "warning". I think audio won't ever be a nightmarish scenario, but who knows? Speaker tech may be exploited to exert covert, subconscious conditioning of the masses, etc.
cheers
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I think we're headed to the future depicted in "Wall-E"... people being too lazy to do anything themselves. Best part was the scene where two guys are talking to each other via digital video, and end up sitting right next to each other, but still using the video system.
This happen now w/msg text.
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Great discussion, but I think we've strayed a bit from Marius' initial question regarding Speaker Design, not listening systems. As long as we continue to hold the reproduction of musician-performed music (amplified or not) in live space as our standard, speaker design will strive to pursue that standard.
20 years is really not that long for major evolution of technology. I recall my beloved Maggie Tympani 4A's from 35 years ago providing easily as satisfying sound as just about anything out there today, but audio nirvana can be achieved in so many ways. 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168455)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168456)
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I had Tympani 4A's as well back in the mid 80's and loved them - even had them actively bi-amplified.
They did what speakers should do - move a lot of 'air' at 'low distortion'
james