AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ModWright Instruments (MWI) => Topic started by: modwright on 29 Sep 2021, 09:45 pm
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I was shocked to go to Audio Advisor's site and see ZERO Blue Ray - DVD players?! I did however see a number of CD only players, from good companies.
As many of us know, after all of the streaming formats, high-rez, etc., a good CDP will play Redbook CD's VERY WELL!
I see a time in the future when we as audiophiles will be seeking out really good CDP's, in the same way that many have returned to vinyl over the past years.
While streaming is great and Universal players and high-rez formats are all very good, they all also have issues that need to be resolved. Streaming involves losses that we have to work hard to overcome. Hi-Rez formats have broad spectrum high frequency noise artifacts that need to be aggressively filtered, etc. In other words, there is never a free lunch. Many have told me that on our modified Oppo players, they get the BEST sound from Redbook CD's!
So, does it make sense to offer a great mod to a sub $1K CD only player, that addresses the power supply, mechanical damping, jitter, analog stage design, etc?
Please let me know if there is interest!
I am looking to the future. I am currently working on the 'Analog Bridge' design and am also considering a great lower price phono stage (lower cost than our best selling PH 9.0 and PH 9.0X).
The key to my future outlook:
Simple, clean, compact designs, reasonably priced, that simply perform! Honest, Great Sound and value!
Thanks,
Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.
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Dan,
Without a doubt.
There are still us dinosaurs that opt for superior SQ over ease of use. It has been my experience that even some modest disc players with intelligent and cost effective modifications can equal or, more often, better the SQ of a majority of streamers that cost $$$$.
Advances in rectification, capacitors and even the lowly op amp have made all of this not only possible but relatively easy. Chassis damping and laser reflection control are very important.
IMO, hi-rez tries to solve a problem that relly doesn't exist for the music lover and basically appleals to the gear head. Compare the number of Redbook releases compared to hi-rez. Million vs. thousands! Decimated upsampling is a terrible solution. Going from 44.1 to 96K or mutiples thereof is just dumb.
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That is exactly where I am going with this.
When CD's came out, everyone got rid of their LP's - "Perfect Sound Forever".
Well, we all know that it took some time for CD's to really start to sound good. And I for one, still maintain that vinyl is superior. But, at a cost, even less convenient, etc.
Now REALLY expensive Digital is very good! A friend of mine told me how pleased he was with his new DCS DAC and clock....at $40K!!!
There are very good streamers and DACs out there too, but the best are often easily 5 figures...
I am trying to determine if there is a market for a lesser cost, high performance solution for the CD!
Thanks,
Dan
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I still love your Modwright 5400 Signature Truth player. I only have about 6 SACD's, but the Redbook CDs sound better than the SACD's much of the time. I just built cabinets to house about 2-3 times the CDs I had before. There is something to having the media right in front of you and being able to listen to what you want to. I will go to streaming someday so I can listen to even more music, but I'm very old school. Also, increased the capacity of my record cabinets by more than double the room. I have added SR Orange fuses and Blue fuses to the player and power supply, done the Star Sound trans mod to the PS, added the Audio Magic Illusion umbilical, Dynamic Design Spirit II PC and Aether Audio MMB-PC, Mullard GZ-34 tube, Sophia Electric Blue 6SN7 tubes, several PPT mats, and Schroeder method doubling the Teo GC II ICs. All are very easy to hear on their own. It's definitely on a new level. I believe there are still many like me that want to have a library of music and have it sound as good as they can.
Bob
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That is exactly where I am going with this.
When CD's came out, everyone got rid of their LP's - "Perfect Sound Forever".
Well, we all know that it took some time for CD's to really start to sound good. And I for one, still maintain that vinyl is superior. But, at a cost, even less convenient, etc.
Now REALLY expensive Digital is very good! A friend of mine told me how pleased he was with his new DCS DAC and clock....at $40K!!!
There are very good streamers and DACs out there too, but the best are often easily 5 figures...
I am trying to determine if there is a market for a lesser cost, high performance solution for the CD!
Thanks,
Dan
I wish I had my old Rotel RCD-855 back. Ancient in design and parts used, but the SAA7220P/B Philips DAC chip was an over achiever at that time and for Redbook still sounds good. See how many TDA1541 DAC kits (with mostly bad clones of the chip) there are on eBay. Quad oversampling @ 176.4. That chip was very, very good and with proper low noise power supplies, mechanism damping as well as chassis damping and a modern component op amp output stage it would be a contender for the best SQ for the $$$ of anything I can think of. But then again, there was the RCD-990 with dual PCM-63K 20-bit DACs and the PM-100 filter with switchable dither settings etc, etc... I'd take that one again, too :thumb:
Rotel did a lot of things very well BITD.
Back to streaming.................
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I still love your Modwright 5400 Signature Truth player. I only have about 6 SACD's, but the Redbook CDs sound better than the SACD's much of the time. I just built cabinets to house about 2-3 times the CDs I had before. There is something to having the media right in front of you and being able to listen to what you want to. I will go to streaming someday so I can listen to even more music, but I'm very old school. Also, increased the capacity of my record cabinets by more than double the room. I have added SR Orange fuses and Blue fuses to the player and power supply, done the Star Sound trans mod to the PS, added the Audio Magic Illusion umbilical, Dynamic Design Spirit II PC and Aether Audio MMB-PC, Mullard GZ-34 tube, Sophia Electric Blue 6SN7 tubes, several PPT mats, and Schroeder method doubling the Teo GC II ICs. All are very easy to hear on their own. It's definitely on a new level. I believe there are still many like me that want to have a library of music and have it sound as good as they can.
Bob
I have a 5400 modified by Allen Wright, a reclocking he called Terra Firma. He also had an outboard clock for CD players, but the Terra Firma was installed in the unit. I sent my stock unit to Allen in Switzerland after he offered to mod one at no cost as a prototype. I have forgotten how old it is, but it's still going strong and I suspect is still close to state of the art for CD sonics. The laser (optical reader) went out a couple years back (4 to be exact) but one of the last original lasers for the 5400s was found in Japan and installed by Bill Thalman at Music Technology. Bill does superb work. https://musictechnology.com/about-us.html
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Dan,
You are speaking directly to me. That is exactly what I want. An expertly modded bang for buck cd player to spin digital discs.
Please bring that to market yesterday!
John
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Dan,
Have you heard about the re-availability of the Pioneer UDP-LX500?
I just love the unit you modded for me and it's a shame that this has been off the market since the beginning of COVID....
Paul Galli
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I'm beginning to see the swell of a wave.
I hope so :thumb:
There is a plethora of players that came out of Keiga and others during the heyday of CD audio. With the shared technology and components there should be a bunch of reasonably priced, willing donors out there.
Just sayin'!
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I'd be in Dan. I have had two of your players over the years, the first just finally gave it up. A new, one box, CDP platform would be great. I think there are still some decent options out there for a host. The only obstacle I see is a thousand dollar target. That's why you get paid the big bucks!
Personally, I have not gravitated to streaming in my music room. Around the house/pool is fine. But I don't see adding the extra expense, media and space necessary for a mediocre resource. It is mediocre to me bc I'm not spending another $10k for another music source, not when my TT and CDP do such an outstanding job as is.
-Dieter
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I am not looking at modifying older CDP's, but rather, choosing a currently made and reasonably priced CDP with current tech! Many use the best current AKM DACs, such as Marantz for example.
One of the VERY first products I owned, just after college, was a Marantz CD-63SE and it was great! Marantz has continued to make similar products in the years since and have kept up with technology.
If I could produce a unit with a great mod that would sell complete in the ~$2K range (mod plus player), would that be of interest? I expect it would have tubes to replace the op-amps and ideally be a one box solution. There may also be a non-tube option at a lower price.
Thank you all for your input!
Dan
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"If I could produce a unit with a great mod that would sell complete in the ~$2K range (mod plus player), would that be of interest? "
Yes. :banana piano:
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Thank you!
Dan
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The $2K pricepoint should really appeal to the high quality (I refuse to say,"high end") audio listener that is established and looking for yet another playback option.
I believe that a lower cost SS output option would help lure the Spotify Ogg Vorbis listener that is looking to break into better sound quality. We need to bring more peole into the music lover/listener fold. Remember: we all started somewhere. I modified a Marantz CD6005 for my grandson that is starting to get into audio. It is quite good and the SQ is better than the price would dictate. He has been hooked. I'm a proud Grandpa! 👴🏻
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I agree with you 100%!
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Dan I would look into the Emotiva ERC-4 @ $600 new retail. Its a good unit as is and works equally well as a transport vs CDP. I'm not an EE but regarding some areas within its my understanding op amps actually work better than discrete circuits. Just a thought.
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I don't know enough about Emotiva to be comfortable modifying their products. I have heard mixed reviews regarding reliability and that is a big issue with me for something that plan to modify.
RE discrete vs. opamps, here is my thoughts:
Opamps are a good, inexpensive and easy to design with option. Because they are inherently feedback-based devices, they don't sound as good as discrete SS or tube circuits in my opinion. Good opamps certainly can sound very good, but I still prefer any circuit without global feedback.
Thanks,
Dan
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i had an Emotiva player for a bedroom system. It sounded bad, and soon broke down anyway. I happily threw it in the dumpster.
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I would be interested in a ~$2k range player. Something built to last but simple and sweet sounding.
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Dan,
I understand you're looking for CDP models to mod. Do you have any interest in modding CDT models? I own a Nuprime CDT-8 Pro, and I wonder whether it is feasible <for you> to mod it?
Regards,
Michael
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I would love to see some tube mods for the Marantz SACD 30n. That would make an awesome successor to the OPPO 205 and no doubt would be a reference caliber unit. CD's on my 205 sound much better than streaming and there is no way I'm going to spend another 5K+ for a high end dedicated streamer.
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This is something I might have an interest in, though if anyone wanted to know my personal preference, I'd rather see a reasonably priced mod for the Marantz SACD 30n, like Artp (though I don't particularly care whether it was based on tubes or not). I have a good-sized SACD library that I don't care to abandon, and I'd prefer a single-player solution. The 30n comes very close to that for me - I really, really like what it does for redbook playback - but if it could be improved, and eliminate my perceived need (:wink:) for the new PS Audio Perfectwave SACD transport, I'd be in heaven.
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I am primarily looking at CDP's, not CDT's. My strength is analog and power supply design.
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The Marantz SACD 30n is interesting, from the stand point that it appears to offer the same or at least similar digital connectivity for audio, that the Oppo 205 does!
I see digital inputs and outputs, including USB. DSD capability?
I also see fixed and variable analog outs.
Lastly I also see a USB input for an outboard drive?
For a product at this price and level, I would envision a mod very similar to what we did for the Oppo 205, with Lundahl transformer coupling and SE and XLR fully balanced outs (we would add XLR outs, possibly as add cost option as the circuit is capable). Pricing would be $2500+, including outboard supply.
The mod that I am considering for the lower priced CDP's would be one-box and less expensive.
Thanks!
Dan
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Indeed it would be great to have something like the Marantz SACD 30n as well as lower priced offerings. That Marantz unit looks amazing and there is plenty of room on the back for XLR outputs to be added and it already has USB and other connectivity options. At some point we OPPO 205 users will need to replace those units and will want something equal or even better.
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Yes, the Marantz is the first that I have seen that could fit the bill.
The total investment would be over $5K, but also very flexible and I don't know that you would need a fancy server if the unit is compatible as a Roon Endpoint...not sure about that.
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This is an interesting thread and very timely.
My listening has been primarily streaming for the last 5-6 years but recently I have been looking for a high quality CD player. The one I have on my short list is this one Dan:
Marantz CD6007
I dont want a player with any bells or whisles, just superb CD playback. and reliability, and this one seems to fit the bill.
From my research it has a very good AKM DAC and almost all reviews are in high-praise of the sound quality/value ratio.
I am sure your mods would bring this player to a new level at a very reasonable cost.
Best regards
Colin
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Never mind, just now noticed your previous post, disregard everything below. There appears to be no way of deleting a posted message unless the moderators can.
It strikes me that a stand alone CDP is a relatively simple device, at least in this day and age of advanced digital chicanery. Why not just design, engineer and make an entirely new unit rather than modifying something else that might have dubious appeal from the start. Or better still forget about a stand alone CDP and create a well engineered (or modified) transport utilizing all outputs from I2S to Coax, optical or AES/EBU and others.
The vast majority of people already own an outboard DAC, so why bother with reinventing that wheel. Separate power supplies for each unit, DAC and Transport, might surely be an advantage much like some of the legendary Wadia's form years past. DAC's come in all flavors from Delta Sigma, each with their own signature sound, then there are the R2R Ladder DAC's. It would be a daunting task to please all just on this platform alone. Some thoughts to consider.
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Absolutely interested. I was just researching an Ayon CD-10 II, tube player. You have my interest, as I am looking for a one box player, not looking for a transport and DAC,
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Never mind, just now noticed your previous post, disregard everything below. There appears to be no way of deleting a posted message unless the moderators can.
It strikes me that a stand alone CDP is a relatively simple device, at least in this day and age of advanced digital chicanery. Why not just design, engineer and make an entirely new unit rather than modifying something else that might have dubious appeal from the start. Or better still forget about a stand alone CDP and create a well engineered (or modified) transport utilizing all outputs from I2S to Coax, optical or AES/EBU and others.
The vast majority of people already own an outboard DAC, so why bother with reinventing that wheel. Separate power supplies for each unit, DAC and Transport, might surely be an advantage much like some of the legendary Wadia's form years past. DAC's come in all flavors from Delta Sigma, each with their own signature sound, then there are the R2R Ladder DAC's. It would be a daunting task to please all just on this platform alone. Some thoughts to consider.
Your comment, though well intentioned, is naive. Even during times of JIT supply chain availability bringing a from scratch CD player would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. The circuit design and boards are the easy part. Casework, power supply components, displays, hardware, firmware and software design and implementation are the real killers in time, money and then there is marketing. In my world, supply delays of 6 to 24 months have become the norm. At the end of that delay there is the questionable spec'ed parts quality being up to standards. Not a good time to reinvent the wheel.
Modifying a worthy donor is the only thing that makes sense.
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I am in the same ballpark as some of the others have mentioned, will not go the streaming method and after having some of modwrights modded cd/dvd/universal players I am all in on a new mod for a cd/sacd player.
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Thanks guys, the next question then is, just to confirm:
It is something like the CD6007 rather than the Marantz CD30n at a much higher price, that also does DSD, etc?
I ask because they are two very different price point mods. I personally like the idea of taking the CD6007 and making it a REALLY great player! The price will be less and I am tired of the techno-run-around with modern digital personally.
Thanks,
Dan
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I would be happy with a one box solution with something like the CD6007. Simple and great sounding.
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I have to agree that A " One Box Player " would be great. Having a separate Power supply can be a challenge room wise . Also I think a $2K- $2500 Upgrade cost should be Max investment...
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The goal would be ideally a one-box solution. We were successful in doing this with the Cambridge CXN Streamer/DAC and the Pioneer LX-500 player. This kept the mod cost down to about $1500 also.
Thanks,
Dan
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The mod that I'm hoping-against-hope for is a slight variation on the ones being bandied about here: I'd like to mod an Arcam FMJ CD23 to accept a digital input, so I can use it as a DAC. There seem to be two camps on this idea -- one that it should be relatively easy with the technical specs in hand (which I have), and the other that it's completely and utterly impossible. :D
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It can be done, but I am not the one to do it. It requires connecting to the I2s input of the CDP. I have attempted this with a Sony SACD player in years past and it did not go well.
Thanks,
Dan
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I first heard of MW players when I bought a used MW Sony 9000 one box player. That was the first CD player that really impressed me with its sound. I didn't own a CD player until 1994 because my records were consistently better sounding than the same music on CD. I believe my first player I actually kept was the NAD 502 until I bought that MW Sony 9000. I don't have any technical knowledge of any worth but I do appreciated good sound. The 9000 was very close in sound to the top box MW Sony 9100 which I had at the same time several years ago. That 9000 was an awesome one box player. I realize that it retailed for $3000 new w/o the mods. I have no idea how much work or cost to you, Dan, that it was, but if you could make a one box player sound as good as the MW Sony 9000 for a reasonable cost, people would be lining up to buy one. I still have the MW Sony 5400 Signature Truth and it is one fantastic sounding player. But to be honest, I believe I might have the most add-on tweaks and upgrades that anyone has put in the player. It just keeps getting better sound with each addition.
Man, just to let others know, a couple of my audio buddies and I have discovered Auric Illuminator II disc enhancer. I have now done over 700 discs with one kit. Each disc significantly improved in SQ. Together with your player, it really cuts into the records rule theory over CDs. Personally, I don't think you're capable of designing anything but stunning mods to your players.
Bob