Salk Soundscape 10

stillen · « **on:** 18 Jul 2011, 06:56 pm »

I am researching a 5.1 HT system
considering 2 pair Soundscape 10 with matching center
sub most likely wil be SVS PB13 Ultra
room dimensions 25-8-20

any more feedback would be beneficial
thanx

fsimms · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 11:43 pm »

It should be a mind blowing system. I was thinking that using SoundScape 10s for the surround might be overkill but the incredible imaging ability of the top module might make sense. It should vie for the title of best theater sound on the planet. It would not be the top in horsepower, but very near the top in sound quality.

Bob

stlrman · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jul 2011, 11:45 pm »

Did you say 2 pairs? are you going to use
A pair as surrounds?

DMurphy · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 12:36 am »

Quote from: stlrman on 18 Jul 2011, 11:45 pm

Did you say 2 pairs? are you going to use
A pair as surrounds?

Jim has a surround for the SS series using the Anarchy woofer, Accuton mid, and RAAL tweet. For surround duties, it would be more than ample, and I'm sure it could be done with an open back on the Accuton. I can't imagine any reason to use the SS10 as a surround unless you weren't using a sub, and happened to be playing material with a 20 Hz signal in the surround channels (I doubt that's very common).

Phil A · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 01:18 am »

I guess if multi-channel music (vs. movies) was a big priority and you had lots of software I could see two pair of Soundscape 10s in a large room provided you were careful in set-up. It would be mind blowing as noted above.

stillen · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 01:18 am »

correct I would have a pair for fronts then other pair for surrounds
no other speaker he has mathes up with it for surrounds although I could have special configure a two centers maybe for the surrrounds could that work

amp would be Sunfire tga-7201

stillen · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 01:19 am »

oh ya preamp Anthem D2v

DMurphy · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 01:48 am »

Quote from: stillen on 19 Jul 2011, 01:18 am

correct I would have a pair for fronts then other pair for surrounds
no other speaker he has mathes up with it for surrounds although I could have special configure a two centers maybe for the surrrounds could that work

amp would be Sunfire tga-7201

I'm still a little confused here. You're going to be using a sub. So I can't see any reason why you need all that SS10 bass horsepower in the rear channels. As I mentioned, there is a matching surround for the SS10's. And they would save you a bajillion dollars. And match the SS10's tonally.

Nuance · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 19 Jul 2011, 01:48 am

I'm still a little confused here. You're going to be using a sub. So I can't see any reason why you need all that SS10 bass horsepower in the rear channels.

Two words for you : Pure fun!

I agree with Dennis that it isn't necessary, but if you can swing it and that's what you want to do, do it.

coke · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 12:54 pm »

What's your home theater to 2 channel audio ratio?

It seems like you have a pretty big budget, and it might be worth considering a 2.0 / 5.1 system where you have a more "musical" preamp, amp, and possibly a DAC for 2 channel audio but still have the ability to use your anthem for processing and the sunfire amp for center and surrounds when watching movies.

I'd also consider using more than 1 sub.

DMurphy · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 19 Jul 2011, 12:33 pm

Two words for you : Pure fun!

I agree with Dennis that it isn't necessary, but if you can swing it and that's what you want to do, do it.

Well, it would certainly be fun to look at. I just wanted to make sure people understood that there is a matching surround, and you don't have to order 4 of those beasts for home theater. In fact, someone ordered the surround as a main speaker. I voiced the mids and highs down a little to bring up the bass, and we got really positive feedback. So this particular surround isn't a second class citizen.

charmerci · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 05:02 pm »

My .02 -

Consider 2 SS 12's instead of the 10's plus - 2 Soundscape surrounds and get the sub later if you feel you still want it.

stillen · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm »

Where is the matching surrounds for the sounscape 10 and 12 series.

is it a modified center channel speaker?

thanx

TF1216 · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 08:53 pm »

Have you considered Seaton Sound Submersive for your subwoofer?

ebag4 · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 09:01 pm »

Quote from: stillen on 19 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm

Where is the matching surrounds for the sounscape 10 and 12 series.

is it a modified center channel speaker?

thanx

Not certain if this is the latest and greatest info but this is what Jim posted earlier this year:

Quote from: jsalk on 7 May 2011, 04:55 pm

Hopefully I can clear up any confusion.

Over the years, we have tried to avoid any talk of a new designs until we had something ready to go into production. We are constantly looking at new design possibilities (and are currently working on prototypes for many new designs). Some of them work out as planned. Others don't quite work out and, for one reason or another, we decide not to offer them. Still others turn out far better than we ever anticipated. So until we have something we feel we can put our name on and put into production, it is somewhat speculative and doesn't seem to make sense to discuss these projects publicly. There is no sense in getting people all excited about a speaker that will never see the light of day.

There are some people in the industry who float new design ideas all the time, using the resulting "buzz" to generate interest. If they get enough interest, they develop the design and hope it all works out. But a year later, you won't see that particular design even mentioned on their web site. You can only draw the conclusion that they and their customers were not too happy with the results.

We don't feel this is a responsible way to approach this business. So until we have a design that we are confident about and are ready to produce, we don't like to speculate. All projects start with a good deal of promise...some just don't work out.

Since you asked the question, I will spell out exactly what I know about the potential models in question.

When we first came out with the SoundScape 10 and 12 designs, a few customers asked about the possibility of developing a center channel (which is on our web site now) and surround speakers for the SoundScapes. They were specifically interested in 3-way designs incorporating the same RAAL ribbon tweeter and Accuton midrange.

Since we used the Anarchy driver in the SoundScape center channel, we thought we would use it in a surround speaker as well. And since it would be used with a subwoofer in a home theater application, it was not all that important that the surround speaker have great bass extension. So the 6.5" Anarchy would work just fine in this application. It has plenty of XMAX and can handle a lot of power.

In the past two weeks, we have tested one version of this surround speaker and will be adding it to our web site soon. Here is a picture...

Again, this was developed for use as a surround speaker for the SoundScapes, so bass to around 45Hz was all that was required.

At the time we built the prototype cabinets for these, we also decided that perhaps someone might want a floor-standing version with dual Anarchy drivers. The sensitivity would be higher and it would handle even more power. We also decided to open the back of the midrange section so that either a grill (resulting in an open-backed midrange) or a hard grill (resulting in a sealed midrange) could be used (much the same as with the SoundScapes).

Here is a picture of that design...

We finished that design last week and it sounds simply wonderful. The FR plot was about as flat as any speaker we have ever worked on...

While this specific pair will be made available for sale and will find a good home somewhere, we may not add this particular design to our offerings. And this is a perfect example of why I don't like to talk about a product until we are ready to introduce it.

Although these are truly wonderful speakers, they would probably need to be mated to a subwoofer if used as mains. (Remember, this project was to develop surround speakers, so deep bass extension was not required.) But anyone wanting to use these as mains without a sub would want deeper bass response. (This is especially true considering that these would not be inexpensive speakers.)

That being the case, we are just starting to work on a project to develop a speaker that is similar to this design, but incorporates 8" woofer(s) for deeper bass response. It will obviously have to be a bit wider to accommodate the larger drivers. And, again like the SoundScapes, it will most likely use dual-opposed passive drivers rather than the ports in this particular design. They will obviously be more expensive to produce than this design, but they will work wonderfully as main speakers without the need for a subwoofer.

Dennis has worked with an expensive 8" ScanSpeak driver he is quite happy with. So we are examining the possibility of using this same driver. But all drivers have strengths and weaknesses. So we are looking at a few other 8" drivers as well. While there are many 8" drivers on the market, selecting the right one for this design is a little more complicated than picking one because the price is right. The bass performance of the resulting speaker will be based entirely on how well we do selecting the right driver with the right performance attributes. This is not a trivial task.

So, at this point, I cannot say which 8" driver we will select. We are actively modeling a few drivers right now and hope to select our first candidate very shortly. This project is high priority around here and we are putting a lot of effort into it in order to have something to offer soon.

But here is the problem... Even after we select the woofer, we have to develop a crossover and spend a good deal of time listening before we can determine if we made the right choice. So it would be very premature to announce that we will build a speaker with this driver complement or that. Until I have a proven design sitting in my listening room, I don't have anything I can ethically announce or price. I have no idea, for example, of the number and size of the crossover components we will need.

I can understand someone being frustrated because they don't know the particulars or prices regarding a potential design. But please understand that, in good faith, I cannot announce driver details or pricing for a speaker that only exists on paper. Speaker design is a VERY complicated process. If this were not the case, the world would be filled with incredible speakers you could purchase for next to nothing. In the real world, there just aren't that many truly great speakers because designing a great speaker involves more than just throwing together the latest and greatest drivers...much more.

On the topic of price, I obviously can't price a speaker that doesn't exist. But I can say this: A speaker with our custom RAAL tweeter, an Accuton midrange and a great 8" woofer that will cost $4500 is probably not realistic. It will certainly cost more than that. Could we build a good 3-way speaker for $4500? Yes. The V3 is a good example. But any SoundScape-caliber speaker with a custom RAAL, an Accuton midrange and a driver like the ScanSpeak 8" will cost more. If we tried to offer it at $4500, it would most likely be wildly popular and we would probably be swamped with orders. But in all likelihood, we'd go bankrupt before we could deliver them. (Others have done this sort of thing, but we never will.)

We feel very strongly that the speakers we offer, at their specific price points, are among the very best values in the audio world. If you look at the cost of the parts that go into our speakers and the quality we put into our cabinets, I doubt you will find anyone offering more for the money. Not only that, but you can customize each speaker to your heart's content. If you want to add more expensive crossover components or the most exotic finish on the planet, you are welcome to do so. We don't place any limits on your options in that regard.

The more demands placed on a design, the more expensive it becomes. We have to balance price/performance such that consumers can get a great speaker without spending any more than necessary to do so. At the same time, if you want a pair of SoundScape 12's done in amboyna burl with Deuland CAST caps, no problem. It would cost about about $40K, but we'd be happy to build it for you.

That said, we do not cut corners to hit some artificial price point. We design to a performance level and let the cost determine itself. While some speakers end up costing a little more than we would have hoped for, their performance is never compromised. We price our finished designs as low as possible, but we have to insure that we can remain in business.

I hope that this sheds some light on what some may be speculating about on line. We are working on quite a few widely varied projects at this time. This is always the case. When we have something to offer, we announce it. Until we do, however, it is pure speculation. There is little point in talking about products that do not yet exist and may never see the light of day.

- Jim

DMurphy · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Jul 2011, 09:28 pm »

I think that is the latest. Certainly the greatest.

Saturn94 · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: stillen on 19 Jul 2011, 08:23 pm

Where is the matching surrounds for the sounscape 10 and 12 series.

is it a modified center channel speaker?

thanx

Yeah, looks like the Salk website hasn't been updated to show the SS surrounds.

stillen · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 07:19 pm »

great info thank you for the link.

those 6.5 inch dual tower would make great surounds but evidently they will not be produced also those 8 inch speakers will cost more than the Soundscapes.

Its between Soundscape 10 and one other speaker brand close to the same price so this is a tough decision.
I wish someone would put some of these up on youtube so I could get a feel for these.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 07:24 pm »

You should reach out and see if anyone in your area has Soundscapes. I am sure Mr. Salk could maybe help you locate someone.

I think at this price range, with this level of customization, you should try and hear them before buying.

Speakers, and the sound they produce, is of a very personal opinion.

MichiganMike · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 09:23 pm »

Quote from: stillen on 19 Jul 2011, 01:19 am

oh ya preamp Anthem D2v

One of the aspects I enjoy most about my SoundScape 10 is the abundant, clean and accurate bass. As several owners have noted, the SoundScapes also are remarkably tolerant of placement that is not ideal. IMHO, it would be a shame not to take full advantage of the low frequency capabilities of the SoundScape.

What frequency do you intend to use to crossover from the SoundScape 10 to the sub or will you run the SoundScape 10 full range? Achieving a more accurate and seamless bass match with a subwoofer than the SoundScapes operating full range will provide down to at least 25 hz may prove a fool's quest.

As you consider what speakers to use in the center and surround positions, the intended crossover frequency to the sub for these channels merits consideration. The sub might handle mostly the LFE in the ".1" channel.