AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: DecibleDude on 26 Mar 2024, 03:21 am
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I have my set 120 control amp along with all my other components plugged into a line conditioner which I believe filters the voltage and protects from surges, possibly hum etc. It's a basic thing I think costing about $100.00 and it's called the Furman M-8x I believe. Everything seems fine, no issues that I can hear or see, but someone on another forum told me he read somewhere that power conditioners cause much higher impedances which for some reason isn't suppose to be good. Can someone from Van Alstine tell me if there's any need to be concerned. I hope not because there's only one wall plug near all the gear which is not enough to plug everything in otherwise. Thank's
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Let’s step back and think critically about this : If what that guy heard/said was true, then everyone with a power conditioner would have problems particularly with their high power amps. Recording studios, TV stations, and other professionals with tons of electronics would have problems too. So…I would hedge my bets that the guy would said this is apparently just another clueless, internet, fake news, spreader. He probably read something somewhere about a particular conditioner and a particular situation and is now applying that situation across the board. :duh:
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I agree with RDavidson. If you're curious about power conditioners, my only advice is to buy one with an audition period/return option. No way to predict if any of them would be of any value without trying one in your system.
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Alpha Audio
Live Stream Multitest - Power Conditioning - Do power conditioners sound differently?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyoiBVtM47Y
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262750&size=huge)
- Puritan PSM156 - 1750 Euro
- Isotek Aquarius EVO3 - 1500 Euro
- Isotek Aquarius V5 - 2500 Euro
- Audioquest 707 - 1299 Euro
- Isotek Gemini + Syncro - Around 900 Euro
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Article after the Live
Live multitest – Power Conditioners – Audioquest – Puritan – Isotek
https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/live-multitest-power-conditioners-audioquest-puritan-isotek/
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262752&size=huge)
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Maty, read the OP’s original post. He simply heard/read that line conditioners raise the output impedance versus plugging gear directly into the wall socket. No where is he asking if or how they may or may mot change audible performance…so let’s not head down that rabbit hole. :nono:
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So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner? If anything, in terms of sound quality everything is fine, no hums, sizzles, or noise in the system at all. As far as I can tell everything sounds just fine in terms of high fidelity. So having heard that these devices can increase impedances greatly I want to make sure they're safe to use. Hopefully one of the AVA people can give me a definitive answer to that question, because beyond a doubt there's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there which I can't decern the truth of.
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I've heard that in some cases there is no improvement at all or conversely, an immense uptick in performance. And in the mix, there's also been comments that a conditioner degraded performance. However, I've never heard of a case where a conditioner damaged a system component. Once again, it's simply a component that has to be auditioned in your system. The Furman unit you mention is not going to damage any component in your system.
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So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner? If anything, in terms of sound quality everything is fine, no hums, sizzles, or noise in the system at all. As far as I can tell everything sounds just fine in terms of high fidelity. So having heard that these devices can increase impedances greatly I want to make sure they're safe to use. Hopefully one of the AVA people can give me a definitive answer to that question, because beyond a doubt there's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there which I can't decern the truth of.
Don't create a problem that doesn't exist. Only deal in facts, and don't listen to what people post. Common sense can often help you discern if something is true or bullsh*t. If power conditioners posed a problem, you would find a ton of research articles on it, Consumer Reports would warn the public, you'd read horror stories all over the Internet, some brands would be bashed, electronics manufacturers would urge buyers not to use them, there would be massive recalls, etc.
Of course, like anything else, if you buy a cheap quality product, you get what you pay for. For audiophiles, a decent power conditioner isn't cheap. I'd say $1,500 is a good starting point (and that's a used price).
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So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner?...
No I don't believe you'll cause damage to your equipment. I would still listen to the system with it and without it (simple power strip, no surge) to compare. I have heard several systems that sounded worse when a line filter was installed. Lifeless would be the best description of the sound with a filter compared to without.
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manufacturers of amps usually recommend the amp be plugged directly into the electrical outlet...
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manufacturers of amps usually recommend the amp be plugged directly into the electrical outlet...
Ok, but why is that?
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My M225's are plugged into a Humdinger, which is plugged into a remote on/off pigtail from the outlet. Frank said this was completely fine.
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My M225's are plugged into a Humdinger, which is plugged into a remote on/off pigtail from the outlet. Frank said this was completely fine.
What's a remote pigtail?
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What's a remote pigtail?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262770)
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Ok, but why is that?
For reasons already mentioned -- a power conditioner, especially a crappy one, can degrade the sound, introduce transformer hum, etc. If that happens, an amp manufacturer doesn't want the consumer to point the finger at the amp.
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For reasons already mentioned -- a power conditioner, especially a crappy one, can degrade the sound, introduce transformer hum, etc. If that happens, an amp manufacturer doesn't want the consumer to point the finger at the amp.
So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?
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So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?
It shouldn't harm equipment (never say never) but it may effect performance, for the better or worse.
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It shouldn't harm equipment (never say never) but it may effect performance, for the better or worse.
Thanks Rusty!
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So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?
Most power conditioners don't regulate voltage. The primary purpose of a power conditioner is to protect your equipment. I'm stating the obvious, but often audiophiles get caught up talking about sound quality. It's one of those weird things we do that allows marketers to put a $5,000 price tag on a power conditioner.
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I'd like to thank all of you for your answers, but it would still be nice if one of the AVA people would give me a definitive answer as to whether there is any possible harm done to my amp by using this Furman M-8x. Unfortunately, on some YouTube video's and comments there are people that claim guys like Nelson Pass say never use a line conditioner on amps. All sorts of claims are made and so for an electronic illiterate like myself the only ones I can feel confident would be correct are the people who build the amp. Nonetheless, thank you everyone because what most of you have been saying makes sense to me.
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Many years ago (before I was associated with AVA) when I purchased my first AVA amplifier Frank told me to plug it directly into the AC socket. I asked about power strips with surge protection and he told me that as long as the power strip can handle the current it would be fine, but again didn't think it was needed.
We have tried our amps with a power conditioner and didn't notice a difference in sound. AVA products use a traditional linear (transformer) power supply that is pretty robust and designed to handle real world situations.
We do sell a device, the Humdinger, to block DC that sometimes in on the AC mains. Having DC on the AC mains causes a mechanical transformer hum, and when the DC is removed the transformer hum is reduced or eliminated. Normally the mechanical hum isn't fed through to the audio circuit since it's a mechanical noise rather than an electrical noise. The Humdinger is a DC blocker and not a full blown power conditioner.
It's unlikely that a power conditioner will do any harm. It's possible there may be a slight change in sound, but it's not something I have heard.
If your concern is power surges and lightning strikes I recommend simply unplugging items you are concerned about when a thunder storm is near. I have a variety of radio equipment and during the storms I always disconnect my radios just in case :)
Larry
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Many years ago (before I was associated with AVA) when I purchased my first AVA amplifier Frank told me to plug it directly into the AC socket. I asked about power strips with surge protection and he told me that as long as the power strip can handle the current it would be fine, but again didn't think it was needed.
We have tried our amps with a power conditioner and didn't notice a difference in sound. AVA products use a traditional linear (transformer) power supply that is pretty robust and designed to handle real world situations.
We do sell a device, the Humdinger, to block DC that sometimes in on the AC mains. Having DC on the AC mains causes a mechanical transformer hum, and when the DC is removed the transformer hum is reduced or eliminated. Normally the mechanical hum isn't fed through to the audio circuit since it's a mechanical noise rather than an electrical noise. The Humdinger is a DC blocker and not a full blown power conditioner.
It's unlikely that a power conditioner will do any harm. It's possible there may be a slight change in sound, but it's not something I have heard.
If your concern is power surges and lightning strikes I recommend simply unplugging items you are concerned about when a thunder storm is near. I have a variety of radio equipment and during the storms I always disconnect my radios just in case :)
Larry Thank you Larry, much appreciated.