Felix project

nature boy · « **Reply #160 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 02:05 pm »

Gordy has convinced me

The more I have been thinking about it for a two duplex receptacle arrangement with 4 Felix boards, the Par-Metal #20-12083X seems to be the best way to go. The 12"W x 8"D x 3H" dimensions will give us plenty of interior space for the boards, wiring, etc. and will easily accommodate 2 duplex receptacles and power cord on the rear side. It should look pretty upscale too!

Now the only decision is whether to go with unfinished, alodine, painted or anodized boxes?? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

NB

TomW16 · « **Reply #161 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 05:02 pm »

Thanks Kyrill and Gordy for the information. Based on your input, I'm thinking of ordering 10 Felixs for my home theater and 2-channel listening systems:

Home Theater System:
Four 3 Amp Felixs for i) DVD Player, ii) Preamp/processor, iii) Sub equalizer, and iv) Projector. All are digital with the exception of the projector, which is physically separated from the other components and, therefore, requires its own Felix.
Two 10 Amp Felixs for i) 5-Channel Amp, and ii) Sub Amp.

2-Channel System:
Three 3 Amp Felixs for i) Transport, ii) DAC and, iii) Tuner and Preamp.
One 10 Amp Felix for the stereo amplifier.

I am only combining the tuner and preamp together on a single 3 Amp Felix so not much savings. Maybe I'll just order eleven Felixs and have everything discrete. After doing some quick math at ~$30 per Felix and then the costs for enclosures, duplex receptacles, fuses, etc., I'm looking at over $400. From what I have read, this seems to be grounded in hard science and makes a real difference. I'm just looking for a quick sanity check before I pull the trigger and send Brad a PM.

Thanks!

Tom

JDUBS · « **Reply #162 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 07:56 pm »

Quote from: nature boy on 9 Mar 2008, 02:05 pm

Gordy has convinced me

The more I have been thinking about it for a two duplex receptacle arrangement with 4 Felix boards, the Par-Metal #20-12083X seems to be the best way to go. The 12"W x 8"D x 3H" dimensions will give us plenty of interior space for the boards, wiring, etc. and will easily accommodate 2 duplex receptacles and power cord on the rear side. It should look pretty upscale too!

Now the only decision is whether to go with unfinished, alodine, painted or anodized boxes?? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

NB

Guys, I will e-mail Par-Metal about this enclosure with holes punched for 2 duplex outlets and an IEC. What do you think about a hole punched for a circuit breaker mounted to the opposite side? Can be used as an "on-off" switch and better / easier than fuses.

-Jim

nature boy · « **Reply #163 on:** 9 Mar 2008, 08:36 pm »

Quote

Guys, I will e-mail Par-Metal about this enclosure with holes punched for 2 duplex outlets and an IEC. What do you think about a hole punched for a circuit breaker mounted to the opposite side? Can be used as an "on-off" switch and better / easier than fuses.

-Jim

Wow, thanks Jim for getting some pricing with holes punched. I have been using a Felicia continually powered on, so actually would prefer not to have a hole punched for a circuit breaker mount. I will be using this in between a Tripp Lite surge suppressor, which I can turn on and off.

NB

JDUBS · « **Reply #164 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 02:04 am »

Quote from: nature boy on 9 Mar 2008, 08:36 pm

Quote
Guys, I will e-mail Par-Metal about this enclosure with holes punched for 2 duplex outlets and an IEC. What do you think about a hole punched for a circuit breaker mounted to the opposite side? Can be used as an "on-off" switch and better / easier than fuses.

-Jim

Wow, thanks Jim for getting some pricing with holes punched. I have been using a Felicia continually powered on, so actually would prefer not to have a hole punched for a circuit breaker mount. I will be using this in between a Tripp Lite surge suppressor, which I can turn on and off.

NB

Happy to do it. I've no direct experience with these guys, but hopefully their enclosure will work out for our needs. I'll e-mail them right now. I'll post as soon as I hear back.

-Jim

BradJudy · « **Reply #165 on:** 10 Mar 2008, 02:16 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 10 Mar 2008, 02:04 am

Happy to do it. I've no direct experience with these guys, but hopefully their enclosure will work out for our needs. I'll e-mail them right now. I'll post as soon as I hear back.

I've purchased a 20 series chassis from them in the past. They are a fairly popular source for DIY folks at Head-Fi and other forums.

kyrill · « **Reply #166 on:** 17 Mar 2008, 10:12 am »

A quote from Hugh the Aspen line designer about a similar filter as the Felix:
"I took a peek at your conditioner. ...
. It's common mode, so only differential currents are attentuated, not those where active and neutral currents are balanced. At 60Hz, balanced AC currents flow like the breeze, but unbalanced currents are savagely attenuated. For a trafo, this is precisely what is needed."

Here i am again with my layman's question

the Felix has the Coilcraft which combines a common mode and a differeritial one.
May i conclude that the common mode chokes benefit enormously from having a balanced AC transformer before the Felix? And a differential choke then becomes "out of work"? Or reversed with a non balanced transformer in front of the Felix? Out of work i mean filter the AC line coming in, not filtering the AC line from the unit with a possible switching pws

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #167 on:** 17 Mar 2008, 11:04 am »

This is not the answer you're looking for, but I expect that conditions could occur where the benefits of multiple devices would be cumulative, so the choke is never truly "out of work."

mgalusha · « **Reply #168 on:** 17 Mar 2008, 04:50 pm »

Quote

As to whether a Felix (or other non-transformer based conditioner) provides incremental benefits through its additional attenuation above and beyond a balancing conditioner to justify the cost and effort is a subjective call. But given the low cost and ease of implementing a Felix (THANKS BradJudy!), its easy enough to find out for yourself. Same goes for which specific CMC is chosen for to filter which component(s), and how much capacitance is appropriate.

I can say that adding a Felix in front of my DCX and after a balanced conditioner did offer additional improvement, so as Paul said, build one and find out how it works for you. For the cost of a decent meal you can enjoy some long term improvements in your system.

Joey B · « **Reply #169 on:** 22 Mar 2008, 07:17 pm »

Hi Guys

Where can you order the x2 Wima caps online ?

TIA

Joe

Gordy · « **Reply #170 on:** 22 Mar 2008, 08:16 pm »

Have you given The Lab's auto-Wima finder a try? Wima

Glen B · « **Reply #171 on:** 28 Mar 2008, 04:44 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 6 Feb 2008, 04:40 pm

In that inductor shown in the PureAC, I only see two leads, which makes me think it is a standard inductor not a CMC. Am I just not seeing the other two leads?

Yes, the inductors in the Belkin PureAv conditioners are CMCs. I own a PF-60 and before that a PF-30. The way the other two leads are positioned, they are not visible in a top view.

nature boy · « **Reply #172 on:** 11 Apr 2008, 01:41 pm »

After getting no where with Par-Metal, I decided to picked up a couple of these Bud Industries ABS rack mountable boxes for my Felix project. They are a bit larger than I wanted, but the are desktop convertible and I have room in both my HT and 2 channel racks. They run ~$41.00 -$45.00 and can be had at Newark, Digi-Key, or Allied Electronics.

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=77C5311

I'll let you know how these work out after getting boards and caps from BradJudy. Gordy old boy, I bit the bullet on these. The Bud boxes appear spacious enough for 3 or maybe 4 sets of AC receptacles on the rear panel.

NB

Bill A · « **Reply #173 on:** 11 Apr 2008, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: kyrill on 17 Mar 2008, 10:12 am

A quote from Hugh the Aspen line designer about a similar filter as the Felix:
"I took a peek at your conditioner. ...
. It's common mode, so only differential currents are attentuated, not those where active and neutral currents are balanced. At 60Hz, balanced AC currents flow like the breeze, but unbalanced currents are savagely attenuated. For a trafo, this is precisely what is needed."

Is this right? I think he has it backwards.

Bill A

AKSA · « **Reply #174 on:** 11 Apr 2008, 11:11 pm »

Why would you say that, Bill?

A transformer has two input wires on its primary. What flows in must flow out, conservation of charge, so currents are balanced. Ideally we want any noise on one wire replicated on the other, so that the difference between them, which passes to the secondary, is negligible by cancellation across the windings.

The idea is to convert differential noise into common mode noise - appearing on both wires, active and neutral - so that negligible noise gets through to the secondary.

Hugh

Bill A · « **Reply #175 on:** 12 Apr 2008, 01:37 am »

Hi Hugh,

Are you refering to the operation of the Felix or the Felicia? By kyrill's post I was under the assumption it was in reference to the Felix as show here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=25757.0

I'm sorry if I appear dense, but I want to get this. I'm pretty confident of my knowledge of how a CMC, as its used in the Felix, works by offering little impedance to differential signals but high impedance to the common mode signals. (However, confidence can lead to "Hey, watch this!", which is asking for trouble.)

I think you are refereing to the balanced power conditioner shown here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18441.0

Bill A

JDUBS · « **Reply #176 on:** 12 Apr 2008, 02:24 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 9 Mar 2008, 07:56 pm

Quote from: nature boy on 9 Mar 2008, 02:05 pm
Gordy has convinced me

The more I have been thinking about it for a two duplex receptacle arrangement with 4 Felix boards, the Par-Metal #20-12083X seems to be the best way to go. The 12"W x 8"D x 3H" dimensions will give us plenty of interior space for the boards, wiring, etc. and will easily accommodate 2 duplex receptacles and power cord on the rear side. It should look pretty upscale too!

Now the only decision is whether to go with unfinished, alodine, painted or anodized boxes?? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

NB

Guys, I will e-mail Par-Metal about this enclosure with holes punched for 2 duplex outlets and an IEC. What do you think about a hole punched for a circuit breaker mounted to the opposite side? Can be used as an "on-off" switch and better / easier than fuses.

-Jim

Guys, no news to report from Par-Metal...which I guess is bad news. And this after multiple e-mails. Its safe to say I will be taking my business elsewhere! I know they do nice stuff...but the lack of response is unacceptable.

-Jim

Gordy · « **Reply #177 on:** 12 Apr 2008, 02:44 am »

Thanks for trying Jim! Roger has been telling me of your efforts and the lack of response from Par Metal. The Bud boxes may work out fine, I suspect the ABS will be too soft/flexable to withstand the force needed for the plugs and receptacles but, hopefully an aluminum L-bracket across the full length of the back will prevent any flexing. Just a guess based on the Radio Shack ABS boxes....

Thanks again

StuntHunt · « **Reply #178 on:** 21 Apr 2008, 12:34 am »

Just thought I’d post a follow-up to a much earlier post of mine. After much procrastinating, I finally got around to assembling my first Felix PC. I figured if I’m going to do this, I’m going to do it right. It’s a 10A, double Felix in one Radio Shack project box. I got my parts from Digikey (thanks Gary, for the tips), and from DIYCable. I used 2 JW Miller 8120-RC CMCs, and caps with the values of 1uf, 0.1uf, and 0.01uf. I used 1A fast-blo fuses in line with each cap cluster (thanks BobM for the tips). I have a 10A on/off circuit breaker switch installed where the power comes in, so I can shut off the whole power supply when I’m not using it.

I installed 2 two-outlet Pass & Seymour 5262 AW outlets in the Felix box, and for a power supply I’m using Asylum-approved Belden 19364 cable with a P & S 5266-X A/C plug. All the Felix internal wiring came from the same 19364 cable, which I wired point-to-point. Using 14 ga for internal wiring was probably overkill (and made assembly more difficult than necessary) but I was feeling inspired.

Just to get it right, I also made new power cables for my McCormack DNA1 Rev. A amp and Odyssey Tempest preamp from the same Asylum design, using Schurter Straight IEC plugs for the component end of things. And just to complete it all, I installed a Pass & Seymour 5262 AW outlet in the wall where I plug everything in. If you’re going to do it, do it right.

The whole thing took a few hours to put together, and the cost was a bit higher than I expected, due primarily to the high end outlets, plugs and cables. But after spending many thousands on this audio hobby of mine, this was no big deal.

But was it worth it?

Well, I’ve always been a skeptic of the idea that a fancy power supply could improve sonic performance. My thoughts were these: you are getting your power from the standard house wiring, so as long as your component power cable was of sufficiently heavy gauge, it’s going to get the job done just fine. So up until now everything was plugged into your standard wall outlets, using your standard generic power cables, and everything sounded OK.

That was until I put the Felix on line. WOW! What a difference! Suddenly, the whole sound stage opened up CONSIDERABLY! I noticed it immediately. My Kef Reference 4’s used to sound a bit muddy, and a bit unfocused. Now they are stellar. The bass is tighter; treble lighter and more transparent, voices and instruments better defined, and really—EVERYTHING sounds better, clearer, and more articulate. Very, very cool. Now I’m a believer! Thanks to everyone who posted tips on assembling this electrical marvel. And if anyone is thinking of making one of these, JUST DO IT!

BobM · « **Reply #179 on:** 21 Apr 2008, 11:43 am »

All I can say is ... it's about time Bryan. Now wait till the break-in period is over.

Enjoy,
Bob