M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use

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Mr. Big

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M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« on: 20 Jun 2021, 04:35 pm »
Well, it's been 8 months of living with and learning about the M3's and learning how to bring the best out of them after many years with Quad (Electrostatic Solutions) total rebuild speakers. I built my system around bringing out the best in the Quads and they were just wonderful. Throwing the M3's in and thinking that all I have to do for good results was way off base. 1st was the long burn-in I say 2 months of my use, which I put less time in daily as many I am sure so the break-in was longer. During this time I played with positioning, spikes or no spikes and cables, but as the speakers settled down the bass really improved, better balance then I inserted the spikes and the bass was better defined and dynamic, the highs were not as forward as when new now fully integrated. So I pulled them out into the room more and the bass remained full without the loss I heard when new. I finally have the speakers 36" from the front way, toed-in to when the tweeter hits I say the center of each shoulder perhaps a bit more in than that. I like a good center imaging, and focus, plus I have to work with my room, as the room is a big part of the final sound we hear.

So to this past month. my 1st thing was to change out my cables and power cords to all one brand. I tried an AQ Blizzard on the amp and it really made the speaker coherent, more natural with tight bass and slam. I was surprised, seems to be a blacker background also. I knew this was not the ideal cord for a 400 watt McIntosh amp so, over many weeks, I purchased 2 Tornados, 1 Thunder, and the Blizzard, Fire interconnects and William Tell speaker wires. So in they went bit by bit, and on each addition, the speaker sounded better and better. My final decision on the power cords was where to use them for my best outcome. I spoke with AQ and they said to use the best on the front end gear and then the amps, it starts at the front end. I use a PS Audio P-12 regeneration for the front end gear only, so they draw little current so they suggest using the blizzard on the P-12, so I wounded up with one Tornado on the McIntosh amp, one of the Luxman preamp, and the Thunder on the Marantz SA-10 SACD player which replaced the Esoteric k-01.

The sound became all that I was so used to with the Quads, but now even more so, vocals had good definition and body to them, highs clear with no glare or being out front, bass could really put out some pressure into the room now, a 1st to feel it in my chest on a test track with the bass burn. I will tell you these speakers' in-room bass response is really low and good. You don't need a sub. So from 8 months of use, these speakers are so pure that they become what your system and recordings feed them, they change their personality, by even one power cord change stands out clearly, so this tells you these speakers do add it's coloration to the sound. They give you what the system before them brings to them. This speaker though is not about hyper detail or analytical. 

From early Jazz, Big Bands, the '40s, 50's, '60s, and on and on, to classical, each ERA has its own sound, and the speaker brings that forth. From thin think 1920s-1930s. The golden age of recording quality made 40's, 50's through the early '60s. Audiophile Labels like Opus 3, and others sound sublime. If the recording quality truly sucks you will hear it, at times I say where is the bottom end, then I put a recording that has it in spades and you think you changed your system, it is a night and day difference, this speaker speaks the truth. The one thing this speaker does is make you feel like the vocalist/group/band is right in the room, it gives a real presence to the music.

So May was the month I finally got the sound out of these speakers that they were capable of and for my enjoyment of my vast recordings collection, and my system. Then a few weeks ago I remember with my Dynaudio speakers the output of the 4-ohm tap on my McIntosh amp really brought them to life. I had tried the 8 & 4-ohms taps on my Quads and the 8-ohm was easily the best. BUT I had never thought about this with my M3's, so I switch the speaker wire from the 8-ohm taps to the 4-ohm outputs and everything became more of what it had been before, bass, focus, high's, slam all improved to where my wife even said does that sound good. So for 2 weeks, I've been pulling recordings that I played back in September, and I sit and marvel at how far this system has come and how much better the M3's sound today as when new. So if you have tube amps and they all will have 4-8 ohm taps try the 4-ohm taps, even McIntosh Solid State amps have these options to match the amp to the speaker properly. You take the M3's and 5's I would guess to another level of quality, I even try it on the X series of speakers.

To end, I have a speaker I plan to own for a long time to come, if any upgrades are offered I may go for that, these speakers are easy to upgrade if offered you could send the crossovers in to be upgraded or buy a new crossover box and the tweeter looks like it could be switched out easily.  But right now I don't even care, these speakers can compete against the best, and best of all they work well in real rooms that most of us have in our homes, in my case a loft overlooking the family, there is no wall behind me where I sit so the wall that the speaker's faces is 30' away and that really helps, no back wall to deal with.

I am glad I purchased these speakers and anyone who say OB speakers lack bass and such is living in the past, like those who still say class D sucks. Time marches on things improve and designs improve, even digital of 40 years ago sounds nothing like my SA-10 SACD player, just like recordings from the '20s did not sound like recordings from the '50s or the turntable to play them on. Too much in Audio is generalities, BS passed on and on. OB speakers have come into their own, and Clayton Shaw and a few others have shown the way to better sound and best of all for Audiophiles at least affordable sound. 







« Last Edit: 23 Jun 2021, 01:00 pm by Mr. Big »

kingdeezie

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #1 on: 20 Jun 2021, 06:06 pm »
Love the set-up. Looks really clean. Glad you are enjoying your speakers. I think OB/Planar is the way to go. It just seems to offer a better experience in my limited time in the hobby. I have yet to hear a boxed speaker provide the same level of openness and transparency.

 

Mr. Big

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #2 on: 20 Jun 2021, 06:34 pm »
Be hard to find a box speaker that does not boom in some frequency, and not push the sound at you. The Dynaudio Confedence 5's were excellent but could not touch the openness of the M3's. The tone can sound great from afar but after Electrostatics and Planars they all sound unnatural and I heard them over the past year up to 30K. My Quads killed them in sounding like real music, M3's the same. Bright, booming bass, so-so imaging, voice small, hyper-detailed, lack of depth, something the M3's do exceedingly well at by the way. I heard Focal, Persona, Sonus Faber, all upper lines. They could not even get a Hammond Organ to sound like a Hammond B3 Organ nor the size of it. Vocals detailed but unreal sounding, no chest or weight to them, floating undetached. But then to each his own.  :)

ric

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #3 on: 21 Jun 2021, 01:54 pm »
Like you, I plan on keeping what I got (original M3's) which also meant upgrading peripherals. For you, I highly recommend (if you haven't tried them) IsoAcoustics Oreas, or Gaia's. I use them under all my equipment, and now even Clayton uses them on his speakers. There are so many tweaks to contend with, but i think you are right about upgrading power cords, IC's, or speaker wire.
I too have reached a saturation point where the system is sounding great! So much better than having upgrade-itus flavor of the month!
-thanks for sharing and ENJOY!

Desertpilot

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #4 on: 21 Jun 2021, 08:50 pm »
Thank you for taking time out to write up this post about your M3 Sapphire experience.  I'm only a few weeks in with my new X3s but so far they exceed any speaker I've had in the past.  Like you, I hope they get better and better.

Thanks again!
Marcus

ric

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #5 on: 22 Jun 2021, 01:40 pm »
Just an analogy, in the past working in construction I eventually learned that whenever you make an improvement--let's say you add a deck, that it affects what's NEXT to it, which means you look at the planter or a wall or whatever that's next to the deck and feel like you want to improve that area because of what you did by adding the deck.
   Audio is no different, and the big question is that over time, are you noticing (bass response,lack of mid range fullness etc.) The good news is that the Spatials seem to be well balanced from top to bottom as well as throwing a huge soundstage and great imaging, so it may be the peripherals that are in question, or even tweaking speaker position. Such fun!

sockpit

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #6 on: 22 Jun 2021, 06:46 pm »
Ric,

Do you recall what size the threads on the M3 spikes are?  I have the M5s and am thinking about replacing the stock spikes, which are a little wobbly.

Thx.

Googie

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #7 on: 22 Jun 2021, 08:17 pm »
Hi sockpit,

I own the M3 Sapphires. They use M6 threads (Metric). I also have the M3 Turbos. They use 1/4/20 threads (Standard).

I hope that helps.

sockpit

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #8 on: 22 Jun 2021, 08:47 pm »
Thanks. Mine are the early version of the Sapphire M5 (without the outboard crossover box), and would expect they have the same front spike threads as the M3 Sapphires.

newzooreview

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #9 on: 28 Jun 2021, 02:44 pm »
For you, I highly recommend (if you haven't tried them) IsoAcoustics Oreas, or Gaia's.

The Gaia III is rated for up to 70lbs (a set of four on one loudspeaker)
The Gaia II is rated for up to 121 lbs.

I assume the Gaia III is the right choice, but is it better to have the more burly Gaia III, or would its damping be more stiff and less effective because it expects a heavier load (like monster truck shocks on a mountain bike).

Thanks!

geerock

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #10 on: 28 Jun 2021, 06:05 pm »
You might want to check out Herbies Audio Lab.  Pricing is much better and I have not heard a difference between the 2.  Sometimes I think the Herbies perform better.  If you have any issue, they'll take them back. 

sockpit

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #11 on: 28 Jun 2021, 06:20 pm »
Which Herbie's product, specifically, do you have in mind?

Thanks!

geerock

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #12 on: 28 Jun 2021, 10:33 pm »
Which Herbie's product, specifically, do you have in mind?

Thanks!

I use his products for both components and speakers.  He has several for speakers but I had the GAIA and went to Herbies Giant Fat Gliders and they decoupled my X5's from a thin carpeted floor as well as the GAIA's and had the added benefit of allowing me to slide the speakers back to the wall when not in use. 

newzooreview

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jun 2021, 03:15 pm »
I went to Herbies Giant Fat Gliders and they decoupled my X5's from a thin carpeted floor as well as the GAIA's and had the added benefit of allowing me to slide the speakers back to the wall when not in use.

In case it helps anyone, I asked Spatial which of the Herbie's Threaded Stud Gliders would best preserve the baffle tilt that the stock spikes provide for the M3 Sapphire.

Clayton wrote back and suggested the following sizes

Front: Four 6mm x 40mm long
Rear: Two 6mm x 25mm long


doggie

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #14 on: 29 Jun 2021, 06:57 pm »
You might want to check out Herbies Audio Lab.  Pricing is much better and I have not heard a difference between the 2.  Sometimes I think the Herbies perform better.  If you have any issue, they'll take them back.

Interesting. I looked at Herbie's web site. Those feet sure look like well made furniture gliders with a stout bolt for replacing stock speaker feet.

At first glace I can see how they would be great if you needed to move your speakers frequently but I do not see how they would either isolate or decouple which are two schools of thought for speaker tweaking. Did you find that they made an audible improvement?



Desertpilot

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #15 on: 29 Jun 2021, 07:22 pm »
Interesting. I looked at Herbie's web site. Those feet sure look like well made furniture gliders with a stout bolt for replacing stock speaker feet.

At first glace I can see how they would be great if you needed to move your speakers frequently but I do not see how they would either isolate or decouple which are two schools of thought for speaker tweaking. Did you find that they made an audible improvement?

Did you get your speakers in?  Let us know your thoughts, and some photos.

Marcus

geerock

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #16 on: 29 Jun 2021, 07:30 pm »
Did you get your speakers in?  Let us know your thoughts, and some photos.

Marcus

I already had the Gaia's from Amazon and they made a difference from stock.  Then I bought the Herbies and I could hear no discernable difference between those and the Gaia's.  I returned the Gaia's to Amazon and saved myself some good cash.  I know people sometimes listen with their wallets (the more you spend the better they must be type of thinking).  I'm not one of them.  Plus I got the added bonus of being able to glide those monsters around easily.  All my components and rack have Herbies under them.
PS.  I have no affiliation with Herbies at all.  I just dont like pissing money away needlessly.

doggie

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #17 on: 29 Jun 2021, 07:36 pm »

Did you get your speakers in?  Let us know your thoughts, and some photos.Marcus


Thanks Marcus. Good timing. In theory the X5's are supposed to be delivered today...

They were ordered on April 5th.They were shipped from Spatial on June 17th. They arrived by Estes Freight in Baltimore last Wednesday the 23rd.

Today is supposed to be delivery day and they have yet to arrive in their 7 hour delivery window to DC which is an hour from Baltimore. I have 30 minutes left in their window and no call yet. Estes sat on them for 3 days before I got notice that they had been handed off to the residential delivery service.

I am sure that the speakers will be great but Estes has not been too great.

doggie

Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #18 on: 30 Jun 2021, 03:09 am »
Did you get your speakers in?  Let us know your thoughts, and some photos.

Marcus


Finally. X5's in da house!


Boy. Do not underestimate moving, unboxing and getting them into place. I am 71 and my wife is 5'1". Using smarts rather than muscle we got them from our outside garage, into the house, and down stairs into the basement. Sliding is your friend! The boxed speakers are about 85 pounds and taking them out of the box only drops off about 10 pounds. They came individually boxed on a pallet.


One unboxing tip. Pull out all of the packing and foam. Then tip them up and slide them out while upright. I do not recommend doing a deadlift to clear the ~18" high box.


Everyone is right. Break-in is mandatory. Unfortunately we have a houseguest staying next to the den so I can't play loud complex music for a few days.

Desertpilot

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Re: M3 Sapphires After 8 Months of use
« Reply #19 on: 30 Jun 2021, 06:33 pm »


I am sure that the speakers will be great but Estes has not been too great.


Congrats!  My delivery  was the same, Estes sat on my speakers for a couple days.  Handed them off to delivery service and they sat on them.  Finally, I called and drove there and picked them up myself.

I couldn't wait one more minute (LOL).

Marcus