AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Empirical Audio => Topic started by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2021, 06:27 pm

Title: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2021, 06:27 pm
My new hobby has me out at night whenever possible, and no, it's not night-clubing, it's Astrophotography.  It turns-out that many had the same idea, so it can be difficult to get a telescope now, with many months lead-time.

I built a star-deck on my house in 2003, but have never seriously used it for astronomy until now.  The last comet Neowise got me re-interested, so I finally got a good telescope.  Thought I would tinker with photos, but discovered that is how you start to really see the universe, so that's all I do now.  Put the eyepieces away.

Here are a couple of my photos:

Andromeda Galaxy
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221696)

Orion Nebula
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221698)

If anyone is interested, I can give you info on how to get started in this hobby and how to do this quality of photo.  It takes an investment of at least $5K, but better with more like $7-10K.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: timind on 7 Mar 2021, 06:38 pm
Let me say those are freakin awesome. I'm gonna live this hobby vicariously through you. More pics please.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Phil A on 7 Mar 2021, 06:39 pm
Great photos.  I bought a telescope (along with a camera mount) well over a year ago but still haven't gotten around to do much with it.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: charmerci on 7 Mar 2021, 06:41 pm
So cool!
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2021, 06:47 pm
Let me say those are freakin awesome. I'm gonna live this hobby vicariously through you. More pics please.

Okay.  Here are the Horsehead and Flame Nebulas:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221699)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Ern Dog on 7 Mar 2021, 07:28 pm
Holy Shite!  That Horsehead looks Amazing Steve!  Fabulous photos!
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Chris Adams on 7 Mar 2021, 07:53 pm
Steve, those photos are incredible! They look like professional quality to me. :thumb:
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 7 Mar 2021, 07:55 pm
Holy Shite!  That Horsehead looks Amazing Steve!  Fabulous photos!

Here's Elephant Trunk Nebula:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221702)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: mresseguie on 7 Mar 2021, 11:44 pm
 :o Wow! :thumb: Awesome photos!!  :popcorn: Watching for more!!!

Steve,

These are amazing. I want to hop in a trans-stellar vessel and slide into every galaxy and solar system to see what adventures unfold. Your location is a huge aid to sky watching.

Thank you for showing the wonders of our night sky.

Michael
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 7 Mar 2021, 11:55 pm
Incredible phots!

What’s the investment ratio between telescope and camera? I’m assuming more for the telescope but what quality camera? Forgive my ignorance, or is there a telescope that also takes photos?
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Saturn94 on 8 Mar 2021, 12:01 am
Awesome pics!  :thumb:

Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 8 Mar 2021, 01:23 am
Incredible phots!

What’s the investment ratio between telescope and camera? I’m assuming more for the telescope but what quality camera? Forgive my ignorance, or is there a telescope that also takes photos?

Telescope is a 60th Anniversary 8" Celestron EdgeHD with Evolution mount, HD tripod and HD wedge.  This was $4-5K  Telescope does not take photos.

Cameras are:

ZWO ASI294MC-Pro - $1K - Capture camera
ZWO ASI120MM - $275 - Guide camera

Many accessories, including the Hyperstar ($1K) lens group for wide angle shots like the Orion Nebula

I have about $2K in eyepieces also, but don't use them except for when I have visitors.

Steve N.


Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 8 Mar 2021, 01:26 am
:o Wow! :thumb: Awesome photos!!  :popcorn: Watching for more!!!

Steve,

These are amazing. I want to hop in a trans-stellar vessel and slide into every galaxy and solar system to see what adventures unfold. Your location is a huge aid to sky watching.

Thank you for showing the wonders of our night sky.

Michael

Here's another, both of the Veil Nebulas:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221709)

Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 8 Mar 2021, 01:42 am
Here is a smaller object that requires a lot of magnification, so it is shot from the rear, the Crab Nebula:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221710)

6523 light years from earth. Pretty close. The Milky Way is about 100K light years across, so it is probably inside.  The closest galaxy, Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away.  It is crazy to think that that the photons from that first photo are 2.5 million years old.  Andromeda may not look anything like this today, 2.5 million years later.

Some of these Nebula look like smoke, although they are many light years across.  Even if the dust and gasses are moving at thousands of miles per hour, we will not see much change in a thousand years.

Most people believe that with a powerful enough telescope in space, we could see every star and galaxy in the universe.  We can't because the universe is expanding and accelerating so fast that the outer things are moving faster than the speed of light, so photons from those things will never reach us, ever.  In fact some of the things that we can see today will not be there in a thousand years.  This is why we have a night sky and all of the stars in the universe do not illuminate the earth all night long.  As time goes on, our night will be a bit darker, with fewer stars.  Most of them are in our own Milky Way galaxy though, so most will still be visible.  The limited sphere of things we can see is called "the observable universe".
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Digi-G on 8 Mar 2021, 09:35 pm
Fascinating! 

Did you color the photos?  I thought I had read that all photos like these are manually colored.  I don't know if that's true or not.

What makes that last picture "from the rear"?  Isn't this the only view we have of it?
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 8 Mar 2021, 10:41 pm
Fascinating! 

Did you color the photos?  I thought I had read that all photos like these are manually colored.  I don't know if that's true or not.

What makes that last picture "from the rear"?  Isn't this the only view we have of it?

I don't add any color.  This is all natural.  I try to get the most accurate colors by doing Photometric Color Calibration.  This uses an international space database from orbiting satellites that contains the brightness and color of every star in the Milky Way.  I get it pretty close and then the software automatically adjusts the color a little to match that database.

I can take photos from the rear of the scope at F/10 or from the front at F/1.9 with the same camera.  Smaller objects from the rear and larger from the front.  The cables have to be routed across the front, but they are curved to minimize diffraction.  There are three mirrors involved in the rear images and only one for the front images.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 9 Mar 2021, 01:52 am
Another photo for your enjoyment, the Flaming Star Nebula:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=221752)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: RolandButcher on 9 Mar 2021, 02:52 am
Amazing work - thanks for sharing this with us.  This one and the Horsehead + Flame Nebulas are my favorite.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 9 Mar 2021, 05:03 am
Amazing work - thanks for sharing this with us.  This one and the Horsehead + Flame Nebulas are my favorite.

That's good to know.  I need to pair down to 8-10 for an exhibit.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Marbles on 27 Mar 2021, 03:10 pm
These photo's are crazy good, please keep posting.

How are you dealing with light pollution?
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: lokie on 27 Mar 2021, 04:04 pm
Thanks for the pictures. Very cool.

I don't know what the Veil Nebulas means but whoever named that... nailed it. Very ominous. I would have an uneasy feeling looking out my starship front portal while entering that territory.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 28 Mar 2021, 05:21 pm
I'm looking outside the Milky Way right now, to the galaxies beyond.  Here is my latest, NGC2093:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222550)

This galaxy is 30 million light years from the Milky Way and almost as big as the Milky Way at 100K light years in diameter.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 7 Apr 2021, 07:21 pm
These photo's are crazy good, please keep posting.

How are you dealing with light pollution?

I'm Bortle 2 here, almost none.  Problem is clouds and wind.

Here's another, the North American Nebula NGC7000:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223030)

Here it is before I final process it, an ocean of stars on top of the object (all from the Milky Way BTW):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223031)

These 20 stacked frames already have some intensity stretch and color saturation applied or you would only see black and stars, no nebula.  Here is a single frame:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223037)

Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Nick B on 8 Apr 2021, 06:20 am
Great pics  :thumb: Thank you!
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 9 Apr 2021, 06:38 pm
California Nebula (NGC1499):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223112)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 10 Apr 2021, 05:55 pm
Soul Nebula (IC1848):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223166)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: toocool4 on 10 Apr 2021, 06:18 pm
Those are cool pictures, must be a very peaceful hobby looking at the night sky.  8)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 10 Apr 2021, 10:19 pm
Those are cool pictures, must be a very peaceful hobby looking at the night sky.  8)

I would describe it as a state of reverence and awe every time I do it.  You never know what you will see until you see it.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 11 Apr 2021, 05:02 pm
M78 NGC2071 NGC2064 NGC2067 nebulas

This was a difficult one because it's small and dim.  Took 5 nights combined to get this:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223203)

1350 light years from Earth, this set of diffuse reflection nebulas comprised of gas and dust are illuminated by the stars in the photo.  It's approximately 5 light years across.  At least 4 of our entire solar systems would fit inside of it.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Nick B on 11 Apr 2021, 05:50 pm
Are the different colors the result of different gasses, dust and possibly distance?
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 11 Apr 2021, 08:47 pm
Are the different colors the result of different gasses, dust and possibly distance?

Mostly different gases/elements and in some cases, red doppler shift due to the distance of the object and that fact that it is accelerating away.  Doppler shift occurs in some objects that are outside of our Milky Way, like other galaxies and stars.  Most of the Nebula that I can capture are in the Milky Way.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Elizabeth on 11 Apr 2021, 09:39 pm
Those photos are a whole new Universe opening up before my eyes.
I live downtown apt big city so not likely to be able to do stuff like that.
Thank you for sharing. they are marvelous.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 12 Apr 2021, 06:22 am
My favorites so far are the Orion Nebula, the M78 NGC2071 NGC2064 NGC2067 Nebulas, Horsehead, Flame and Veil Nebulas, and the Andromeda Galaxy.

I'm surprised that you get get images of this quality from the ground with an 8" telescope. I guess image stacking and other contemporary technical advancements have made this possible. I thought this image quality required the likes of the Mauna Observatory in Hawaii or the Hubble telescope. I must simply be out of touch.

These are beautiful images; thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 12 Apr 2021, 05:37 pm
Wizard Nebula NGC7380:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223254)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 13 Apr 2021, 05:18 pm
Pac-Man Nebula (NGC281):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223312)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 14 Apr 2021, 04:33 pm
Jellyfish nebula (IC443):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223346)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: toocool4 on 14 Apr 2021, 04:45 pm
Pac-Man Nebula, who names them? I am a big Pac-Man arcade game fan. 8)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 15 Apr 2021, 06:39 pm
Bodes Galaxy (M81):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223392)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 16 Apr 2021, 05:24 pm
Dumbbell Nebula (M27):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223432)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 17 Apr 2021, 11:19 pm
Triangulum Galaxy (M33):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223478)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 17 Apr 2021, 11:38 pm
Owl Nebula (M97):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223479)

Three nights of captures combined to get this image.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Nick B on 18 Apr 2021, 12:01 am
I'm Bortle 2 here, almost none.  Problem is clouds and wind.

Here's another, the North American Nebula NGC7000:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223030)

Here it is before I final process it, an ocean of stars on top of the object (all from the Milky Way BTW):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223031)

These 20 stacked frames already have some intensity stretch and color saturation applied or you would only see black and stars, no nebula.  Here is a single frame:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223037)

Looking at these again, it looks a bit like eyes and definitely like a pig’s snout... 🐷
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: undertowogt1 on 18 Apr 2021, 12:32 am
hold up.....you can see images like that with a consumer telescope? to get that type of quality image how much cash are we taking for the gear? is this like a 10 000 dollar and up telescope ( I have no idea on this stuff)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 18 Apr 2021, 01:27 am
hold up.....you can see images like that with a consumer telescope? to get that type of quality image how much cash are we taking for the gear? is this like a 10 000 dollar and up telescope ( I have no idea on this stuff)

You can spend as little as $4K to get this, but it's difficult.  Closer to $10K.  Even at that price, the telescope is only semi-automated with a lot to learn about the capture and the post-processing.

My telescope is an 8" aperture EdgeHD Schmitt-Cassegrain from Celestron, about $6K with the accessories.  The camera is another $1K.  Then there are cables, focus masks and other accessories.  This is just for the captures.  I also have a set of 2" aperture eyepieces for viewing.  These are in the $3K range.  Better cameras can run up to $3K.

A typical capture involves:

1) assemble/attach the telescope to the mount and wait for darkness
2) power on the telescope and wait for it to sync with a GPS satellite and discover the alignment camera
3) start auto-alignment and wait for it to complete - it usually takes shots of 3 points in the sky - this is how it maps the sky into the mount computer
4) use the go-to to slew to the star Polaris
5) use SharpCap polar alignment software to capture the stars around Polaris using the capture camera
6) manually slew the mount so it's 90 degrees rotated on the right ascension axis - this is how the earth rotates on it's axis
7) note the polar mis-alignment error in SharpCap and adjust the wedge so that the error is very low
8 ) go-to a star close to the object you want to capture
9) insert the focusing mask on the front of the OTA (telescope optical tube assembly)
10) use the focus controls to bring the star into fine focus using the motorized focuser
11) remove the focusing mask and go-to the object you want to capture
12) find the object in the camera FOV (field of view) and center it
13) if it needs rotating, loosen the camera lock and rotate the camera until it's oriented properly
14) open the intensity histogram in SharpCap
15) adjust the exposure time and gain until the histogram shows the object is brighter than the background noise
16) start the guiding software and logically connect to the guide camera and the mount
17) start cycling the guide star view and pick a star to guide with
18) if the guiding control needs re-calibration, do that for the guide camera and mount
19) start guiding
20) start the capture and leave the telescope to do it's thing for 2-4 hours

And this is on a warm night.  On a cold night, one must use dew shields and heaters to keep things from frosting up.  Many of these shots were captured in November, December and January on cold nights. October is probably the best month for captures, but only certain objects are visible.  Lots of Nebulas during that period.

The telescope will track any object in the sky, but the object will creep out of the FOV over a few hours, so it's necessary to use guiding software and a guiding camera to keep the telescope finely locked onto a star and thereby the object, when capturing.

Most of the objects I have shown you are not visible to the eye using this telescope, only the center part of Andromeda and part of Orion Nebula.  In order to see the others at all, you must do long exposures with a camera.  Colors are virtually non-existent to the naked eye, except for the planets and some colored stars.  The camera is needed to resolve the colors as well. The moon is amazing through the right eyepiece BTW.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: charmerci on 18 Apr 2021, 02:33 am
I'm not sure that one has to spend that much to get something decent - though not as spectacular as your photos. A decent 6-8" telescope with a motor and a camera attachment adapter for your digital DSLR or full frame camera should give some nice photos of places in our galaxy and solar system as well as Andromeda - which surprisingly is about the size of the full moon.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 18 Apr 2021, 07:09 am
I'm not sure that one has to spend that much to get something decent - though not as spectacular as your photos. A decent 6-8" telescope with a motor and a camera attachment adapter for your digital DSLR or full frame camera should give some nice photos of places in our galaxy and solar system as well as Andromeda - which surprisingly is about the size of the full moon.

I guess we are talking about something a little beyond just "decent" here.
I am still surprised that this level of quality can be obtained at an affordable price from the ground with an 8" telescope. I don't think images of this quality came from Mt. Palomar untill modern photo manipulation techniques like image stacking made it possible.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 18 Apr 2021, 05:19 pm
I guess we are talking about something a little beyond just "decent" here.
I am still surprised that this level of quality can be obtained at an affordable price from the ground with an 8" telescope. I don't think images of this quality came from Mt. Palomar untill modern photo manipulation techniques like image stacking made it possible.

Absolutely.  Many of these software technologies were developed in the 1990's to solve the issues with the original Hubble telescope.  Also, things like having sensitive high-resolution digital cameras, cheap massive memory and a supercomputer on your desk enables these technologies to be used by everyone.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 18 Apr 2021, 06:18 pm
Hercules Globular Cluster (M13):


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223496)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 21 Apr 2021, 10:06 pm
Thor's Helmet (NGC2359), a difficult target:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223666)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Nick B on 22 Apr 2021, 01:30 am
Thor's Helmet (NGC2359), a difficult target:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223666)

This one is stunning
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 22 Apr 2021, 05:15 pm
This one is stunning

Believe it or not, this one has about 50% of the stars removed/reduced.  Too many stars....
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: FullRangeMan on 25 Apr 2021, 04:54 pm
Hi Audioengr,
These are beautiful images, I think the most interesting subject in the night sky is the near moon, there is a lot of things happen there, mainly in the infrared range or full spectrum. If you have moon images please cheers us  :thumb:
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 25 Apr 2021, 06:30 pm
Hi Audioengr,
These are beautiful images, I think the most interesting subject in the night sky is the near moon, there is a lot of things happen there, mainly in the infrared range or full spectrum. If you have moon images please cheers us  :thumb:

Here are some moon images:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223840)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223841)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223843)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223844)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223842)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 25 Apr 2021, 08:11 pm
Amazing how nearly perfectly spherical the moon looks, thanks, I guess to the molten core. Hard to grasp the fact that the core is still liwuid iron after all this time and with no atmosphere to speak of to insulate it.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: FullRangeMan on 25 Apr 2021, 09:09 pm
Oh nice, thanks for posting.
I suppose these photos are visible light.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 25 Apr 2021, 09:32 pm
Oh nice, thanks for posting.
I suppose these photos are visible light.
Yes.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 26 Apr 2021, 09:29 pm
One of my Mars captures from last fall:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223895)

You can plainly see the icecap and darker areas.

These are an entirely different game than nebula and galaxies.  You take a 2-4 minute video and then stack thousands of frames.  This is necessary because of the atmospherics causing the image to distort and wobble.  Also I use entirely different software to stack and process the images.  They are bright objects compared to nebula and galaxies, so the camera background noise is a non-issue.  No need for calibration frames like you use with nebula and galaxies.

This may be home for the remaining human race in 100 years if we don't stop polluting the Earth by burning fossil fuels and wood. This is why I drive an electric car and heat my house with electric from hydro.  I'm doing my part, but no one else is, it seems.  I'm getting so tired of trying to make a difference. Humans are just destined to become extinct and take most other living things with them in the process.  Enjoy this planet while you still can.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Photon46 on 27 Apr 2021, 12:18 am
I'm getting so tired of trying to make a difference. Humans are just destined to become extinct and take most other living things with them in the process.  Enjoy this planet while you still can.

Very possibly. However, the balance of nature might possibly reassert itself in a manner most unkind to Homo Sapiens. WHO scientists working in Africa have nightmares about a pathogen emerging which combines the lethal virulence of Ebola and the recent Covid variant's transmissibility (or worse.). Every year they find several people in Africa who died of new and previously hitherto unknown Ebola like illnesses. Black Death swept civilization not long ago and reset the balance of man and the environment, it can definitely happen again. As our numbers grow larger and mankind moves in greater numbers into previously unpopulated areas, the likelihood of such an event grows more likely.

Also, 250,000,000 years ago, a long period of Siberian volcanic eruptions caused hydrocarbon gas emissions on the scale humanity is now dumping into the atmosphere. There were runway greenhouse gas emissions and the planet warmed to the point a massive extinction event occurred. However in time the earth cooled and new forms of life evolved.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 27 Apr 2021, 01:43 am
Very possibly. However, the balance of nature might possibly reassert itself in a manner most unkind to Homo Sapiens. WHO scientists working in Africa have nightmares about a pathogen emerging which combines the lethal virulence of Ebola and the recent Covid variant's transmissibility (or worse.). Every year they find several people in Africa who died of new and previously hitherto unknown Ebola like illnesses. Black Death swept civilization not long ago and reset the balance of man and the environment, it can definitely happen again. As our numbers grow larger and mankind moves in greater numbers into previously unpopulated areas, the likelihood of such an event grows more likely.

Also, 250,000,000 years ago, a long period of Siberian volcanic eruptions caused hydrocarbon gas emissions on the scale humanity is now dumping into the atmosphere. There were runway greenhouse gas emissions and the planet warmed to the point a massive extinction event occurred. However in time the earth cooled and new forms of life evolved.

As for Pandemics, I believe that technology will stop them from eradicating the human race.  Humans can deal with and understand the consequences of a pandemic because the effects are fast and obvious, so they act decisively.

Global Warming is a much slower death for the planet and it's life.  Humans are notorious for ignoring such slow effects until it's killing them and then it's too late.

If you study the plots of CO2 in the atmosphere over earths history, most of the greenhouse gas increases occurred over a time scale of thousands of years. Current Global Warming has happened over hundreds of years, really accelerating in the last 50 years.  There is no historical precedent that compares to the super fast increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and in the oceans caused by human Global Warming.  I have studied this for a decade and given presentations to groups locally.

Humans can still stop the warming from getting a lot worse, but the timescale to do so is in 1-2 decades.  I cannot see Americans 100% adopting electric cars in 10 or even 20 years. They will not stop burning fireplaces or convert their homes from natural gas to electric.  Cement will still use fossil fuels and the military will use fossil fuels.  The only way out of this IMO is to convert most power plants to low-risk nuclear and mandate that all gas cars be replaced with electrics. Mandate that all houses be converted to electric and boost the electric grid and provide storage on the grid with new battery technology. It's a big ask.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 27 Apr 2021, 04:51 am
I feel compelled to mention that a great book that addresses these questions in such a way as to create a valid, realistic perspective is "Whole Earth Discipline" by Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Catalogue editor. He is intelligent, well connected and thus well informed. Published in 2009. it still seems entirely relevent. To him 'Generation III or IV' nuclear reactors are the most rational interim source of energy by a long shot—even over wind, geothermal and solar, to bridge the imagined 50 year gap between now and the development of a hoped-for alternative.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Photon46 on 27 Apr 2021, 10:25 am
"It is a big ask." You sir, are a master of understatement. Humanity is it's own worst enemy all too often. Evolutionary biologists often comment on how Homo Sapiens is well equipped to react to immediate risks to one's self but we fare poorly when judging long term less immediate risks. When confronted with complex and difficult to manage existential threats many retreat into denial, rationalization, and superstition.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: Photon46 on 27 Apr 2021, 10:57 am
As for Pandemics, I believe that technology will stop them from eradicating the human race.  Humans can deal with and understand the consequences of a pandemic because the effects are fast and obvious, so they act decisively.

As the current Covid-19 situation in India shows, those living in wealthy First World economies have rapid access to new medical technologies and the rest of the world is left behind. If a virulent and deadly pathogen should emerge, we could easily see a tremendous schism in fatality rates among different nations. At the the risk of getting to political, I often hear the argument that we shouldn't be sending medical aid and vaccines across borders. Over and over, I've explained that viral evolution doesn't care about politics and borders and refusal to help other less wealthy nations means and endless game of viral whack a mole that risks hurting ourselves in the long run.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 27 Apr 2021, 05:23 pm
I feel compelled to mention that a great book that addresses these questions in such a way as to create a valid, realistic perspective is "Whole Earth Discipline" by Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Catalogue editor. He is intelligent, well connected and thus well informed. Published in 2009. it still seems entirely relevant. To him 'Generation III or IV' nuclear reactors are the most rational interim source of energy by a long shot—even over wind, geothermal and solar, to bridge the imagined 50 year gap between now and the development of a hoped-for alternative.

If only legislators were rational and educated, much less the general public.  They can't even pronounce the word "nuclear", much less understand the risks.  The prospect of contamination of land for eons seems to be the impediment that we cannot get past, even though it's very unlikely to happen with these new generation reactors.  Evidently the entire radioactive waste ever created by reactors can fit in one football field below the goal-posts. Some of the waste can evidently be used in these modern reactors too.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 27 Apr 2021, 05:30 pm
"It is a big ask." You sir, are a master of understatement. Humanity is it's own worst enemy all too often. Evolutionary biologists often comment on how Homo Sapiens is well equipped to react to immediate risks to one's self but we fare poorly when judging long term less immediate risks. When confronted with complex and difficult to manage existential threats many retreat into denial, rationalization, and superstition.

Agreed.  IMO, the only way out of this is either a more socialistic government that does what is needed based on the science regardless of what the people want or a completely authoritarian dictatorship by a leader that actually cares.  The latter is most unlikely.  The kind of people that are authoritarians never care about these things, much less other people or science for that matter.

China is something else altogether and they may actually do the job.  They are trying, but it's hard to turn such a giant ship in a short time.  They have more solar panels on roofs than any other country.  More electric public transportation than any other country.  They are improving the air quality in Beijing by shutting down coal plants, but that was only after a major outcry by the residents.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 27 Apr 2021, 05:32 pm
As the current Covid-19 situation in India shows, those living in wealthy First World economies have rapid access to new medical technologies and the rest of the world is left behind. If a virulent and deadly pathogen should emerge, we could easily see a tremendous schism in fatality rates among different nations. At the the risk of getting to political, I often hear the argument that we shouldn't be sending medical aid and vaccines across borders. Over and over, I've explained that viral evolution doesn't care about politics and borders and refusal to help other less wealthy nations means and endless game of viral whack a mole that risks hurting ourselves in the long run.

Trying to be protectionist with a pandemic cure is a no-win proposition.  We are a global economy with massive global travel.  No turning back.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: FullRangeMan on 29 Apr 2021, 05:25 pm
Hi again,
I was surprised by this book contend in the 1990s, a fresh window on what is really happen on the moon and abroad, a mandatory book to sky watch fans, now in a new expanded edition, disregard the new vintage funny cover:
https://www.amazon.com/Extraterrestrial-Archaeology-Revised-Hatcher-Childress-dp-0932813771/dp/0932813771/ref=dp_ob_image_bk
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224007)
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 30 Apr 2021, 12:02 am
I didn't say this before because I didn't want to scare people, but Andromeda is actually on a collision course with the Milky Way and moving towards us at 200K miles/hour.  No worries.  At this speed, the two galaxies will collide in 5 billion years. :wink:

I believe the sun will will engulf the earth about the same time.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: FullRangeMan on 30 Apr 2021, 12:16 am
Well time is relative according the place one are.
Title: Re: New hobby keeping me busy during COVID
Post by: audioengr on 9 May 2021, 06:26 pm
NGC4565 the Needle Galaxy:



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224500)


40 million light years from Earth.  It is one of the more dim objects out there, at magnitude 9.6.  Most of the stars around it are in the Milky Way, so less than 200K light years to those stars.