[Chops]

Danny, several years ago, you sold these bass guitar drivers for I believe the first version of the V-1's. They are now discontinued drivers, but I purchased four of them from you with the plans of building V-1's which never happened. I still have these drivers, still brand new and still sealed up in the shipping packaging.

I would like to use these drivers for some small H-Frames to go along with my X-Statik's. Would either one of your amps (HX300 or A370PEQ) be compatible with these drivers to get the most out of them?

I also have a pair of JL Audio e110 subs that do amazingly well, but there's still no contest against OB bass. Since I have these subs, the Eminence Neo drivers and a dbx DriveRack Venu 360, I was thinking I could do a band-pass on the OB subs, running them from something like 30Hz - 80Hz, the JL's from 30Hz down, and the X-Statik's from 80Hz on up.

The OB subs would be right up against the side walls but about 3' out from the front wall. I'd put the JL's behind them, tucked into the corners.

I think this would be a cool little project and wouldn't cost me more than just a couple of your amps and some wood and time.

This would all be in a 12' x 13' room. What do you think? Many thanks in advance!

Here's what I'm working with... BTW, still loving these X-Statik's! All of those upgrades I did to the crossovers and No-Rez was definitely worth it!





And just for fun if anyone is interested... http://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-6/o512036193/c1/p2839711776-200.mp4

[Danny Richie]

Yeah, those X-Statiks are great.

That is a pretty lively looking room you have there. Some tube traps in those rear corners, some treatment on that front wall, and a big thick throw rug would go a long way.

I still have a bunch of those 12" Eminence drivers, by the way. And putting them in a H frame would be a great use of them.

Our servo amps won't work with them. Use one of these amps from Apex Jr. http://apexjr.com/amps.html  They used to have one that allowed a 3db or 6db bass boost at 25 to 30Hz. Ask Steve about them.

[Chops]

Yeah, those X-Statiks are great.

That is a pretty lively looking room you have there. Some tube traps in those rear corners, some treatment on that front wall, and a big thick throw rug would go a long way.

I still have a bunch of those 12" Eminence drivers, by the way. And putting them in a H frame would be a great use of them.

Our servo amps won't work with them. Use one of these amps from Apex Jr. http://apexjr.com/amps.html  They used to have one that allowed a 3db or 6db bass boost at 25 to 30Hz. Ask Steve about them.

The X-Statik's are great, and still going strong! I love them. I'll try a bunch of different speakers but always come back to them.

Yes, I have plans for the room. Thinking of a huge heavy curtain along the entire front wall to soak up some of those rear waves, and a throw rug definitely. Just baby steps right now as I'm replacing receptacles, switches and plates all over the house, including "audiophile" grade Pangea ones in here.

How do those Eminence drivers perform? Are they good on their own or would it be best to run the JL's along with them? What's the model # on them so I can look up their specs? I don't think I ever read anything about how they sounded in H-Frames.

Also, I guess the servo amps have to use DVC drivers and these are not. If that's the case, I can probably run them off of one of my Carver M-500t amps (highly modified to MkII status) and use the crossover and tuning within the dbx Venu 360. I can adjust phase, and EQ, etc, etc with it on each channel. That way, I would have more than enough power and not have to pay extra for anything other than wood for the H-Frames.

How about those crossover points I mentioned? Sound decent enough or should I run them up a little higher around 100Hz as well as cut the X-Statik's at 100Hz?

Thanks a bunch in advance!

[Danny Richie]

It sounds like you have a great plan in place.

The woofer specs are here: https://mcbrideloudspeaker.com/Eminence-ACOUSTINATOR-N2012.html

They work great in an open baffle especially if loaded slightly by a H frame design. They don't have a lot of X-Max but using a lot of them doesn't require a lot of X-Max to move a lot of air either.

Your amp and dbx should be fine for them.

The natural roll off of the X-Statiks will put them -3db in the 40 to 60Hz range. It really depends on the room. You'll want to cross them where they are -6db down. Typically this in the 35Hz to 45Hz range. I'd start there.

[Chops]

Thanks for the link, Danny. I've been searching the net high and low and couldn't find anything not remembering the model # and all.

I was just thinking... You said you still have a bunch of them. These particular Carver amps can run a 4 ohm load, but they don't like it too much if the impedance swings lower than that with any volume. So maybe we can work out a deal on four more of these drivers so I can keep my amp at a happy 8 ohm load, not to mention have a LOT more cone area. If you know me, I'm one for overkill. LOL

Maybe if I do that, I won't have to use the JL's at all.

My thinking behind the higher crossover point was to lessen the output of the woofers in the X-Statik's and getting more of that OB sound from the subs to match up with the OB sound of the mids. But I may be thinking about it all wrong. I just know that I love OB bass from my one and only project using those old Pyle PPA15 drivers... The BEST subwoofers I ever heard or owned. I still have those drivers as well.

What kind of extension can I expect from these N2012 drivers? What about with eight of them? I'm serious about buying four more.

Thanks again Danny. I greatly appreciate it as always!

-Charles

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for the link, Danny. I've been searching the net high and low and couldn't find anything not remembering the model # and all.

I was just thinking... You said you still have a bunch of them. These particular Carver amps can run a 4 ohm load, but they don't like it too much if the impedance swings lower than that with any volume. So maybe we can work out a deal on four more of these drivers so I can keep my amp at a happy 8 ohm load, not to mention have a LOT more cone area. If you know me, I'm one for overkill. LOL

Maybe if I do that, I won't have to use the JL's at all.

My thinking behind the higher crossover point was to lessen the output of the woofers in the X-Statik's and getting more of that OB sound from the subs to match up with the OB sound of the mids. But I may be thinking about it all wrong. I just know that I love OB bass from my one and only project using those old Pyle PPA15 drivers... The BEST subwoofers I ever heard or owned. I still have those drivers as well.

What kind of extension can I expect from these N2012 drivers? What about with eight of them? I'm serious about buying four more.

Thanks again Danny. I greatly appreciate it as always!

-Charles

That's a great idea. I'll let you have as many of them as you want for $75 a piece.

With a bass boost feature of 6db at 30Hz then that should put them pretty flat or at least to a -3db in the low 20's.

The X-Statik's will have a 12db per octave natural roll off. So crossing them low with the same slope will allow them to blend really well. If you half to just use a single inline filter with them that will just drop out the bottom octave and make them (electrically) about 6db down at 40Hz. Then acoustically that could push the crossover point up to 50Hz or so.

[Chops]

That's a great idea. I'll let you have as many of them as you want for $75 a piece.

With a bass boost feature of 6db at 30Hz then that should put them pretty flat or at least to a -3db in the low 20's.

The X-Statik's will have a 12db per octave natural roll off. So crossing them low with the same slope will allow them to blend really well. If you half to just use a single inline filter with them that will just drop out the bottom octave and make them (electrically) about 6db down at 40Hz. Then acoustically that could push the crossover point up to 50Hz or so.

Thanks Danny!

A member here on the forum contacted me, saying that he has two lightly used N2012 drivers that he will sell me at a good price. If that goes through, I'll only need to buy two more from you.

Nice thing about using eight of these drivers, running them with +6 dB of boost won't even put a strain on them. They should theoretically just loaf along. And if I can get a good solid low 20's out them them, that would be nice.

The thing I'm worried about is building the OB's like the bottom half of your V1/V2's. If I do that, these would stand nearly 4' tall. I really don't like the idea of having large flat reflective surfaces that close to the MTM OB section of the X-Statik's. I might as well just move the X-Statik's up against he side walls now. LOL

So now I'm wondering, what kind of differences in sound will I get from these N2012 drivers going from H-frames to something like ri-poles? I would think you would get better sound in H-frames because of the fact that the drivers are actually facing you, so you're getting the sound coming directly from them. With a ri-pole, you're getting the indirect sound from them via the opening of the front cavity.

Should this be a valid concern?

[Danny Richie]

The Ripole design tends to be little buzz boxes as they have a large un-braced panel in front of each driver. And then you have to make that panel really thick and heavy to get past it. The can also cause an un-even response as you are really making a band pass box tuned to a frequency that is just above where you are trying to use them.

You'll get much better sound from the H frame design.

You could also lay them all flat on their sides. You don't have to stand them up.

They also don't have to be to the inside of the X-Statiks or parallel to them. 

[Chops]

The Ripole design tends to be little buzz boxes as they have a large un-braced panel in front of each driver. And then you have to make that panel really thick and heavy to get past it. The can also cause an un-even response as you are really making a band pass box tuned to a frequency that is just above where you are trying to use them.

You'll get much better sound from the H frame design.

You could also lay them all flat on their sides. You don't have to stand them up.

They also don't have to be to the inside of the X-Statiks or parallel to them.

That's one of the things I was afraid of with the Ripoles. Any time there's a cavity like that, something negative is bound to happen.

If I build the H-frames 4' tall, and I place them behind the X-Statik's, how close to the front wall can they be and still produce good sound? What about the rear wave of the X-Statik's getting bounced around on the inside front of the H-frames where the drivers around mounted? Would that be a concern? Does that make sense? Ha!

Oh, is there a particular size the H-frames should be for these drivers? I would like them to be as compact as possible while still providing clean detailed output.

I'll have to draw out a floor plan of the room and show you what kind of space I'm working with.

[Chops]

I was just thinking... Are there still any H-frame flat packs available for these drivers? Or any 12" drivers for that matter?

I have zero wood working tools anymore and trying to find someone to help me with this is probably going to be next to impossible. Not to mention I don't have much in wood working skills.


BTW guys, this whole thread isn't only directed to Danny. Anyone is welcome to participate.

[Danny Richie]

Jay and Don cut flat packs for our servo subs. And these 12" Eminence drivers fit the same through hole size. 

[Chops]

Jay and Don cut flat packs for our servo subs. And these 12" Eminence drivers fit the same through hole size.

Thank you Danny.

Unfortunately, I don't know who either of those gentlemen are. If I had their screen names, I could contact them via PM if available.

[Danny Richie]

Thank you Danny.

Unfortunately, I don't know who either of those gentlemen are. If I had their screen names, I could contact them via PM if available.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.0

[Chops]

Thanks Danny. I think I'll pass on that. That's a ton of $$$ just for some MDF.

[Captainhemo]

hey Chops
Of course, you  are entitled to your opinion...  they may seem expenssive at first   glance but  when you look at   CNC machining costs, material  costs (try sourcing 1.5 MDF),  our time to  do custom roundovers  etc for  each  cabinet,  packaging  etc,  they are very reasonable. 
Read through the thread, look what the packs include and read the customers  comments.  We've never had a single   customer  feel  they  were  over charged, in fact, we've had  numerous people think  the prices  were per cabinet, not per pair

The packs allow  people  with  no or limited woodworking skills and / or a limited access to tools to build out a  pair of cabinets and achieve incrdible rsults with   minimal  effort.

If at any point you  have  2nd  thoughts about these, feel free to contact me, I'd  be  happy to answer  any  questions you  might have

jay

[Chops]

I didn't exactly mean it that way. If it was only a pair I was going after, then it wouldn't be so bad. But I need two pairs, and I'm not quite prepared to spend $1200 on H-frames.

[Captainhemo]

We also have a modular design, here are a couple pics of some quads.

 

No worries man, was  just  clarifying as that was  kind of the way it came out... but I get it.
Unfortunately, the modular design will run be a similar amount of  money.  I know our  module design has cut the costs   of these rougly in half from  a previous modular design.
These modular  subs  are cut  from 1.25", 1", and .625" Medex.

jay

[corndog71]

I didn't exactly mean it that way. If it was only a pair I was going after, then it wouldn't be so bad. But I need two pairs, and I'm not quite prepared to spend $1200 on H-frames.

I think what you want is only $550.

[nickd]

Off topic, but digging that Carver gear in your pics. Very cool retro gear. 

[Chops]

I think what you want is only $550.

To be perfectly honest, even that's a bit too steep currently for me.

I'm also asking around locally with a few guys I know that do wood working. It's just a matter of getting to see them to ask. One of them builds custom furniture and his work is better than anything you would ever see in a store. Heavy, solid, built to last.