AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: Hiphile on 26 Nov 2018, 11:52 pm
-
Interested in the Omega monito HO speakers, anyone using solid state amps with Omegas? The new SET 120 Van Alstine amp looks interesting also checking the Finale 168 integ. Feedback, comments highly appreciated
Tahnks!
-
Class A is my recommendation. I have a First Watt J2 which is a great match with my SAMs. There are a number of all Class A solid state out there.
.........Peter
-
I definitely recommend Finale. I haven't heard their 168, but I currently have the EL84TT from their sister company Triode Lab. It's wired in triode and sounds absolutely wonderful. I've heard really good things about the 168. Frank is awesome to deal with as well, a true gentleman like Louis.
I HAVE used solid state with my Omegas, but it's always been too bright for me. Class A is definitely where it's at and will be a wonderful match for any omega that I've heard.
-
You might be interested in Folson's amp.
Lot here in AC about it.
Don
-
If you must use SS First Watt. Why ? They are made for that type speaker. If not Inspire, Audio Hungary, Decware and yes Jolida.
charles
-
I have almost exclusively used SS amps with my Omegas and almost exclusively Pass and First Watt. I really enjoy the balance of neutrality, tone, and naturalness that Nelson imparts in his designs. As many here know, I've tried most of the First Watt offerings (flavors?), as well as all the "low" power Pass amps since the XA30.5. I currently have an XA25, which I'm enjoying immensely and have an F3 on standby. I generally agree with the earlier statement that First Watt amps are made for single driver / high efficiency speakers, some moreso than others. I'll say that I find the single ended Pass / First Watt designs to sound better than the push-pull designs with Omegas. Note that the XA30.5 and XA30.8 run in single ended class A for their first watt or two...which is quite a bit of power for Omegas. Not only are Omegas highly efficient electrically, they're also mechanically easy (because the cones are so light and they're coupled to such strong motors).
-
I'm using an old (circa 90's) pair of 10w single-ended transistor E1 monos from German company Valvet with my Super 3i's.
The combo works well enough, but if I could afford a First Watt instead, I'd go that way in a heartbeat.
That said, with SS I am missing a bit of the 'magic' I get with my custom-built 6w Tube SET (6L6-based).
-
I'll be interested to hear how Schiit's new Aegir amp pairs w/ Omegas:
https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir
-
I'll be interested to hear how Schiit's new Aegir amp pairs w/ Omegas:
https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir
+1
-
If it shares the ability of being able to "come on song" at fractions of a watt, in the same way class A amps (and class D in my experience) do so well, it should work a treat with Omegas. The price is certainly attractive given the pretenses. :D
-
Definitely. Has anyone tried a First Watt J2 w/ any of Louie's 'High Output' speakers yet? I've been a bit tempted by a pair of HO Omegas, but wasn't sure how they would pair w/ the J2. The Aegir could be a cost-effective pairing with the 4-6 ohm Omegas.
-
Well, Nelson has said that the J2 was designed for single driver, high efficiency, speakers (generally 8ohm nominal) in mind. However, that's not to say it wouldn't work with others and Nelson suggests just giving things a try. I would be VERY surprised if the J2 would have any problems with the HO Omegas. Ohm rating is just one parameter in a more complex electromechanical system. You also have to account for your room size, listening distance, and your preferred listening levels. There are always caveats. :D
-
Agree with RDavidson. My HO monitors sounds simply amazing and supremely musical with my Pass Labs XA-25. So much in fact that I ended up selling my beloved 300b monoblocks in favor of the XA-25....
-
I would suggest the Bryston B60 but expensive, so look a used.
The Rega Brio have a sweet sound too.
-
Sugden A21SE would work well too. Pure Class A. Sweet and musical
-
Sugden A21SE would work well too. Pure Class A. Sweet and musical
Indeed this a great single ended integrated amp :thumb:
-
A great bang for the bucks is the Burson Bang amp. Regular $600, now half price at Parts Conennexion. 40 watts will drive any of the Onega speakers. You can roll opamps, but I use the Classic opamp. Very sweet sounding with a very large soundstage. The amp is small like a Class D amp, but sounds better than any Class D amp I have ever heard.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/BURSON-84730.html
-
Wow, what preamp do you use?
Its 29W in 8 ohms, perfect to FR drivers.
-
I use the Hong Kong passive for $99. Great for full range speakers. Burson has several reasonably priced preamps that also rolls the opamps, but I have never heard those.
-
Thanks, it would be interesting use a tube preamp or buffer with this Bang V6.
-
Probably the IFI Itube2 would be great.
-
This:https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/amplifiers/proprius-power-amplifier.html (https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/amplifiers/proprius-power-amplifier.html)
or this:https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/pa-1 (https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/pa-1)
The Proprius is not class D and the PA-1 is Class D.
I'm running a TPA3116 Class D with my CAMs and the synergy is wonderful.
-
After a lot of tweaking, I was finally able to get my Sansui AU-517 to work well with my Omegas.
Previously the amp was overpowering, and could only be used at 5% volume before getting too loud. There is a switch on the back which internally de-couples the power amp from the pre amp for use independently. I used a pair of -12dB in line attenuators and a short RCA cable to externally reconnect the two stages and lower the input voltage into the power amp section. This has allowed me get much more play out of the volume knob. Its got some other nice features which I find useful such as tone controls and two phono inputs.
I plan to use this combination for a few weeks before comparing against my 2 wpc SET amp to see what changes I notice.
-
Probably the IFI Itube2 would be great.
Would you be using this as a pre-amp for another power amp?
-
Louis, just recently, pointed me toward the Vista Audio Spark (Class A/B 20W) for my Super 3 XRS. Looks like that Burson puts out a few more watts.
Can someone tell me what the Burson spec at parts connection means?
Inputs: 2 X RCA (2V RMS line level)
My preamp puts out 8V RMS. I'm wondering if I'll hit a headroom problem with the preamp volume knob?
(ps. This seems cool: Bang has a built-in buffer stage with selectable impedance levels.)
-
Nelson Pass First Watt amps.
charles
-
Yup. First Watt. Look for the single ended class A designs.
Of the Pass Labs (XA series) amps I've tried, I'm enjoying the XA-25 very much. It really straddles the line between the First Watt and Pass Labs lines beautifully. I would describe it as a big First Watt amp a bit moreso than a baby Pass Labs amp. I think at least some folks here will follow what I mean by that. :D
-
After using tube amps for the last 10 years or so, I finally took the plunge and hooked my Audio-GD Master 10 amp to my Gangsta Omegas.
Here is the beast:
http://audio-gd.com/Master/Master102019/Master-102019EN.htm
The result took a while to get used to as the mellowness of the tubes no longer smoothed things out, revealing more trebles and more bass in the process, while the mids seemed a tad less present.
After a couple of days trying hard not to correct the sound with the mini EQ I got from Schiit, I am now enjoying this combination tremendously and it seems (I don't want to sound too definitive) like the Omega Gangstas are revealing their awesomeness more.
PS = I have no interest in Audio-GD. I have a DAC from them and it is also a superb piece of equipment.
-
I just posted on another thread how much I like my Audio-GD amp
http://audio-gd.com/Master/Master102019/Master-102019EN.htm
I pair it with Gangsta Omegas (see the thread I created to review these awesome custom built speakers) and I'm happy
PS = it took me a while to get used to non-tube sound and I'm still thinking I'd love it if I could have two amps in my system
-
Other great integrated amps options are Dayens Ampino or Menuetto, and Odyssey Cyclops at only $1095.
-
I have a pair of Charney Audio Maestro horns with the Omega RS7 driver. I have listened to them with many types of SS amplification and have found the Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) Stereo Maraschino (STM) to be the best. If your budget won't allow the DAC STM the Allo Volt+D is a great bargain amp. Both are single input integrated amps with plenty of power to drive the Omega's.
https://www.cherryamp.com/stereo-maraschino-stm
https://www.allo.com/sparky/volt-plus-d-amp.html
-
I finally got around to setting up my Firstwatt F5 amp in my system with my Sansui as a preamp.
This amp really does sound fantastically detailed and clear. I sometimes felt the Junior 8XRS was lacking in treble extension but the F5 seems to give me the extra sense of air around cymbals.
My speakers might also be continuing to break in and have relatively low hours on them but all in all I am really liking this combination!
-
I've not heard one in my room, but vintage Class A Krell is interesting. Anyone familiar?
-
I'm interested in going a different direction and building a Hiraga 8W Class A solid state amp. Anybody have experience with that beast? I have Super Alnico HO Monitors with the R compound.
-
I have listened to them with many types of SS amplification and have found the Digital Amplifier Company (DAC) Stereo Maraschino (STM) to be the best.
That is the only SS amp that allowed me made me :D walk away from tubes once and for all. :D :D
-
I agree with the previous poster: If you must use SS First Watt.
-
I agree with the previous poster: If you must use SS First Watt.
+1. J2 or SIT-3 but they are not cheap.
An affordable great value amp is the Odyssey Cyclops under $1 grand.
-
You also have the AVA SET 120 at 60W/channel for under 1K. It runs at class A at "normal" levels.
-
An affordable great value amp is the Odyssey Cyclops under $1 grand.
+1 .. nice amp, ever so slightly on the warm side of neutral. My Cyclops is in storage right now but the next time I feel the urge to swap some gear in/out I thought I'd try it with my Super 3i's. I suspect it will mate well but honestly, I'm not sure. Thoughts?
-
Give it a try. In my experience, many class A/B amps just don't strut their stuff when only outputting a couple of watts (or even fractions of a watt), which is all Omegas need to easily come alive. It really boils down to the behavior of any particular amp when the output is so low. That's a big reason class A amps are pretty much universally recommended for high efficiency speakers. They're always "on song." I've also found that class D amps can work a treat at low output too. Their sonic character doesn't seem to vary a lot whether outputting 1 watt or 200 watts.
-
I listen to a lot of SS amps as shows, and they usually don't impress me, but I can highly recommend the Well's Audio amps. Almost tube sound quality from transistors.
http://www.wellsaudio.com/majestic (http://www.wellsaudio.com/majestic)
http://www.wellsaudio.com/akasha (http://www.wellsaudio.com/akasha)
Merrill Audio switch-mode amps are also worth a look. Very nice sounding but not cheap.
https://merrillaudio.net/element-114-power-amplifier-monoblocks/ (https://merrillaudio.net/element-114-power-amplifier-monoblocks/)
-
For $hits and giggles I tried my Odyssey Cyclops with the Super 3i's over the weekend. IMO the little Decware SE84UFO is simply a better match. In fact, I prefer my Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25 wpc) to the Cyclops with the Super 3i's. The Cyclops seems better suited to more inefficient speakers where it can really come alive. Nonetheless, it's one terrific amp mated to the right speakers and will remain in storage for the present.
-
For $hits and giggles I tried my Odyssey Cyclops with the Super 3i's over the weekend. IMO the little Decware SE84UFO is simply a better match. In fact, I prefer my Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25 wpc) to the Cyclops with the Super 3i's. The Cyclops seems better suited to more inefficient speakers where it can really come alive. Nonetheless, it's one terrific amp mated to the right speakers and will remain in storage for the present.
25W is very good to 100dB speakers.
-
For $hits and giggles I tried my Odyssey Cyclops with the Super 3i's over the weekend. IMO the little Decware SE84UFO is simply a better match. In fact, I prefer my Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25 wpc) to the Cyclops with the Super 3i's. The Cyclops seems better suited to more inefficient speakers where it can really come alive. Nonetheless, it's one terrific amp mated to the right speakers...
You are quite right. If you owned Maggies, the Cyclops would remain in place while the Decware and TPA3116 would take up residence in the closet. It’s all about system synergy. :D :D
-
You are quite right. If you owned Maggies, the Cyclops would remain in place while the Decware and TPA3116 would take up residence in the closet. It’s all about system synergy. :D :D
Yup .. system synergy. I have several pairs of nice inefficient speakers (including Maggie's) to pair with the Cyclops, which is why I keep it. 😁
-
I recently purchased a Marantz HD-AMP1 to pair with my Super 3i's and like the pairing quite a lot. Not exactly a replacement for my little Zen amp, which I love, more of an alternative. It's a lower-powered (35 WPC) class d integrated with an onboard Sabre DAC. This caught my eye a couple of years ago when it was released but I had no need at the time. I looked at several integrated amps around the same price but the HD-AMP1 had every option I was looking for, so I took a chance. Glad I did.
-
Resurrection time!
I just want to add a data point and confirm that NP's First Watt F4 sounds so good with my Omega Super Alnico High Output Monitors. Preamp is a Linear Tube Audio MZ2. Now going exclusively vinyl (in this system) with a WTL Simplex and Denon DL 103 via Sugden phono stage and Cinemag 1254 SUT.
I was thinking that I didn't have quite enough gain because the F4's need about 20 volts p-p to reach maximum output (25 wpc @ 8 ohms; 50 @ 4). But, no, it has plenty of steam, though my preamp only has about 12 dB of gain.
Bottom line: beautiful class A sound with plenty of power to rock out. Detail and dynamics galore. Gotta play record after record. Can't stop.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210143)
-
System Synergy! Period!
We all know that Omega's and low powered SET amps play VERY well together. I too bought a 1.5 watt per channel SET amp to pair with my new Omega Super 3 HO's, and I was so excited to use it. It had some volume pot issues and I had to send it back. I was like what the heck, let me try out the Omega's with these way overkill DAC Golden Cherry Mononblocks I have powering my Magnepan LRS's and see what happens. For the Omega's, the amps are putting out about 270 watts per channel. Well guess what happened. And RS5 driver popped right out of the cabinet and on to the floor!
Just kidding! :D
Beautiful music! The Omega's responded VERY favorably to the DAC Golden Cherries.
-
System synergy is "amplified" by the Omegas (and by my F4's, as it happens). What's nice about the F4 is that it is simple to insert a second amp in between the preamp and the amp. I put a resistor over the speaker outputs on the inserted amp and use the speaker outputs as inputs for the F4, and then enjoy the sound of that amp clearly amplified by the F4. This morning I'm listening to an EL84 SEP amp, later I'll experiment with my Darling SET, which at 1 wpc doesn't cut it, but going through the F4 approaches 25 wpc.
-
I've heard nothing but good about Cherry amps, though I've never had the pleasure.
-
I've heard nothing but good about Cherry amps, though I've never had the pleasure.
I've been through a lot of amps over the past 6 years. SET amps, Chip amps, SS, I found the amps I am 100% happy with. They're so good. Plug and play and don't worry about anything. I even leave them on 24/7. They are dead silent too. I paused the song, turned up the preamp all the way and nothing was heard out of the Omega's. That is impressive. Tommy over at DAC know what he is doing. And like I said, the monoblocks are putting out about 270 watts per channel. The Omega's loved it and stayed composed and musical. So even though Omega's and low powered SET's are magical, so is SS with a lot of power, if implemented well.
-
Well guys............
After over a month of listening to two different systems in one room and using different SS options on my Super 3 HO Twin RS5 driver monitors, I've come to the conclusion that the amps I have been using are not a good match for the Omegas. And even though they sound great with the amps I have been using, they are too lean. I have been told by a couple of people that a lot of SS amps, in particular, the ones I am using have way too high of a damping factor which is controlling the drivers in the Omega's too much and not letting the bass come through. So I am going back to the drawing boards and reevaluating what amps I want to try out with these Omega's. A friend of mine who has these exact same speakers and listens to a lot of the same style of music say's he has all the bas and midbass he could ever want. Beinf driven by a SET amp and with the difference of floor standing compared to monitors. Which obviously is going to give him more bass and slam. But I should still be getting plenty of that with these monitors and I am not. So I am going to give it a little more time and try out a couple of different options.
The two options that have really caught my eye are the Decware UFO.
https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html
And the Schiit Aegir.
https://www.schiit.com/products/aegir
-
For $hits and giggles I tried my Odyssey Cyclops with the Super 3i's over the weekend. IMO the little Decware SE84UFO is simply a better match. In fact, I prefer my Fleawatt TPA3116D2 (25 wpc) to the Cyclops with the Super 3i's. The Cyclops seems better suited to more inefficient speakers where it can really come alive. Nonetheless, it's one terrific amp mated to the right speakers and will remain in storage for the present.
I just commented on this. I am not having good results with SS. Just sent Steve an email on picking up an SE84UFO. This is my last attempt to get beautiful, full and rich sound from my Omega Super 3HO’s. SS is making the speakers sound way too lean. I am hoping it’s a matter of amplifier selection and not the speakers themselves. Because either the Omega’s just don’t produce bass with high damping SS amps, or these are the leanest speakers I’ve ever owned. Will keep you all posted.
-
Have you tried a tube pre in front of you SS? I’ve had luck with ss.
-
I just commented on this. I am not having good results with SS. Just sent Steve an email on picking up an SE84UFO. This is my last attempt to get beautiful, full and rich sound from my Omega Super 3HO’s. SS is making the speakers sound way too lean. I am hoping it’s a matter of amplifier selection and not the speakers themselves. Because either the Omega’s just don’t produce bass with high damping SS amps, or these are the leanest speakers I’ve ever owned. Will keep you all posted.
AVSFan - I would observe that your speakers are still nearly new. I suspect that they are not broken in yet. Until break in, the RS5 drivers will sound thin, tight, and lean. After a while they loosen up and the bass blooms. That being said, it has been my experience that Omega speakers prefer tubes and work well be SET and SEP amps. But rather than risk buying another 2wpc channel amp you haven’t heard, I would first give the speakers a chance to fully break in. I put them out of phase, face to face, with a couple blankets thrown over and run bass-heavy music on repeat. I did this with my Super 3HO speakers every day when I went to work for a month.
I think you should also evaluate your amp choice as it relates to your musical tastes. Louis rates the HO speakers at 97dB with 4-6 ohms. To me that translates to 95 dB @ 8 ohms. Not really much different from the single driver model with with a second driver the cover the lower midrange down, effectively adding and additional 3dB bass boost. This second driver does not made the speaker go lower, it adds power to its existing bass range. It also allows the speaker to go a lot louder with more power. Where the single driver model starts sounding compressed at 5 watts or so, the double driver model sounds much more dynamic and can play much louder.
I use a Dennis Had Inspire PSE (10-23wpc SEP) with my Super 3HO speakers. I can run any tube from 6F6 to KT88. Even though the speaker is only running on a watt or two during loud passages, the reserve power is felt as a sense of ease. Changing tubes can dramatically change the character. I’m currently running KT77’s at 20wpc. The amp works into 2-20 ohm speaker impedance. With this amp, the Super 3 HO is capable of 105 dB peaks at the listening position.
-
+1 for giving them some time, it took me awhile to get placement dialed in and to understand them too. They do break in a bit, and to tell you the truth, when I switch back to them, I have to get used to them again a bit too.
-
they really do take a long time to blossom. i'd say my RS5 took six months. the floor standers do offer a bit more punch but honestly the monitors have excellent and tuneful bass! i am sure there are some really good SS options but i am staying in the tube camp. tons of great SE, SEP, PP amps that will provide lots of details, layering, and bass at the 1K price point (:
-
I agree there are many tube amp options out there that sound great and are cost effective. But, there may be practical / domestic reasons for wanting SS amp options...which is kind of the point of the thread I think. Not to mention, there are some outstanding SS amps that work a treat with Omegas particularly if you can put a little tube goodness in the system elsewhere upstream. Very nice! :thumb:
-
I agree there are many tube amp options out there that sound great and are cost effective. But, there may be practical / domestic reasons for wanting SS amp options...which is kind of the point of the thread I think. Not to mention, there are some outstanding SS amps that work a treat with Omegas particularly if you can put a little tube goodness in the system elsewhere upstream. Very nice! :thumb:
What are some more SS options for the Omega's?
Decware is a no go for Tubes because Steve told me they have a 3-4 month wait! Holy Guacamole!
Aegir is probably a non go as well. A rep from Schiit looked at the specs of my Omega' sand he was afraid that the 6ohm rating might send the Aegir into protection mode. And "Might" was stressed. Not for sure but might. He was just giving me a heads up. So that's probably not going to work because I do like volume. And I know this seems silly bu I am looking for a compact amp like the Aegir or SE84 UFO.
-
At least you got a response from Steve...I never did.
-
Aegir is probably a non go as well. A rep from Schiit looked at the specs of my Omega' sand he was afraid that the 6ohm rating might send the Aegir into protection mode. And "Might" was stressed.
:scratch:
-
What are some more SS options for the Omega's?
Decware is a no go for Tubes because Steve told me they have a 3-4 month wait! Holy Guacamole!
Aegir is probably a non go as well. A rep from Schiit looked at the specs of my Omega' sand he was afraid that the 6ohm rating might send the Aegir into protection mode. And "Might" was stressed. Not for sure but might. He was just giving me a heads up. So that's probably not going to work because I do like volume. And I know this seems silly bu I am looking for a compact amp like the Aegir or SE84 UFO.
The Dennis Had Firebottle SEP amps are compact, sitting on an 8” x 10” chassis. Power runs 5-12 wpc. It does need a bit of gain for full power. They come up secondhand from time to time but run about $1,300 from Dennis via EBay.
-
The Dennis Had Firebottle SEP amps are compact, sitting on an 8” x 10” chassis. Power runs 5-12 wpc. It does need a bit of gain for full power. They come up secondhand from time to time but run about $1,300 from Dennis via EBay.
$1700?
He also has a 45 SE ad now for 2k
-
$1700?
He also has a 45 SE ad now for 2k
Not to take food off anyone’s table, but Oliver Sayes would build you a 45 SE of your desired topology for half that. I own two Inspire amps and two Oliver Sayes amps. The Sayes amps are easier to work with under the hood. The Inspire amps are new and use current production MUSA iron.
-
What are some more SS options for the Omega's?
Decware is a no go for Tubes because Steve told me they have a 3-4 month wait! Holy Guacamole!
Aegir is probably a non go as well. A rep from Schiit looked at the specs of my Omega' sand he was afraid that the 6ohm rating might send the Aegir into protection mode. And "Might" was stressed. Not for sure but might. He was just giving me a heads up. So that's probably not going to work because I do like volume. And I know this seems silly bu I am looking for a compact amp like the Aegir or SE84 UFO.
Pass and First Watt have been mentioned many times. You could also go with the DiY Pass ACA amp, which is a huge bargain (you can even build them as monoblocks). Many have mentioned that class D amps can also work quite well. I would generally stay away from class A/B unless they output their first couple of watts in class A. Parasound comes to mind. I believe Modwright amps are also in this category. There are tons of options, but without a budget it would take too long to list them all. Note, I think the rep at Schiit is pulling your leg, man. There's no way the Aegir would have an issue driving Omegas. :lol:
-
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649637279-single-ended-45-triode-amplifier-se-dht/
-
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649637279-single-ended-45-triode-amplifier-se-dht/
Agree, tube amps (particularly single ended designs) work nicely with Omegas. This is pretty well known at this point. That's a nice tube amp example in the link, but the subject line is "Solid state amp options" guys. To keep this thread on topic, please start a new thread on tube amps or resurrect one of the many previous tube amp threads if you cannot suggest or ideally recommend (based on personal experience) a solid state amp or two.
-
Agree, tube amps (particularly single ended designs) work nicely with Omegas. This is pretty well known at this point. That's a nice tube amp example in the link, but the subject line is "Solid state amp options" guys. To keep this thread on topic, please start a new thread on tube amps or resurrect one of the many previous tube amp threads if you cannot suggest or ideally recommend (based on personal experience) a solid state amp or two.
I would agree that the Amp Camp Amp (ACA) is a good match for Omega speakers. However, if you are using HO (dual driver) model speakers I would recommend running it at 19.2v instead of 24v. Power goes down from 8 to 5 wpc, but power stays consistent from 4 to 8 ohms. Using the 24v PS will give you an extra 3dB bass boost which I found made my Super 3 HO speakers sound boomy and muddy.