[DoubleD]

My 13 year old Odyssey Stratos mono blocks are in the queue at Klaus's shop waiting to for some major upgrades.  Since everything will be new, I understand that there will be a significant break in period before they sound their best.  Which components are involved with this process and what is actually occurring during the break in?

[FullRangeMan]

Hi, Starting Block is really for people to introduce themselves. This question/thread is best posted in Odyssey Circle, so I'll move it there for you now

[diyman]

My 13 year old Odyssey Stratos mono blocks are in the queue at Klaus's shop waiting to for some major upgrades.  Since everything will be new, I understand that there will be a significant break in period before they sound their best.  Which components are involved with this process and what is actually occurring during the break in?

No components are involved and nothing is happening.  Break-in of solid state electronics is a myth.  When you get the amps back sit down, relax, enjoy the music, and don't obsess over any imaginary break-in period.

[Phil A]

Welcome!

[FullRangeMan]

No components are involved and nothing is happening.  Break-in of solid state electronics is a myth.  When you get the amps back sit down, relax, enjoy the music, and don't obsess over any imaginary break-in period.

Personal opinion declared as fact, the colleague DD needs better help than this.

[Phil A]

My 13 year old Odyssey Stratos mono blocks are in the queue at Klaus's shop waiting to for some major upgrades.  Since everything will be new, I understand that there will be a significant break in period before they sound their best.  Which components are involved with this process and what is actually occurring during the break in?

See reply number 5 here which indicates Klaus' response to a customer - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=136523.0

[JCarney]

Hi DoubleD, you will enjoy the upgrades. I owned Stratos glass ceiling mono's for 5+ years, and I can tell you that you will hear a myriad of things as they settle in. During the process they will sound at times thin and brittle, full and rich at times, and on occasion, they will just sound weird and not right. Do not worry, this is normal. The big storage caps contribute to all of this, as well as the boards themselves. Then one day, it will all come together and you will be rewarded with a rich full soundstage, deep controlled bass, wonderful midrange, and detailed trebled without harshness. Klaus recommends leaving them on all the time. I tried both leaving them on, and turning them off. I found that an overnight shut off does not affect the sound. That is my experience, yours may be different. Hook em up, play some music, and enjoy the ride.

JCarney

[Digi-G]

Hi DoubleD, you will enjoy the upgrades. I owned Stratos glass ceiling mono's for 5+ years, and I can tell you that you will hear a myriad of things as they settle in. During the process they will sound at times thin and brittle, full and rich at times, and on occasion, they will just sound weird and not right. Do not worry, this is normal. The big storage caps contribute to all of this, as well as the boards themselves. Then one day, it will all come together and you will be rewarded with a rich full soundstage, deep controlled bass, wonderful midrange, and detailed trebled without harshness. Klaus recommends leaving them on all the time. I tried both leaving them on, and turning them off. I found that an overnight shut off does not affect the sound. That is my experience, yours may be different. Hook em up, play some music, and enjoy the ride.

JCarney

I agree with what JC said.  Break-in is not a myth, in my experience.  Especially with my Stereo Stratos.  Like he said, the sound was all over the place and it wasn't subtle.  It would go from muddy to tinny sounding within an hour or two.  During the break-in I even called Klaus thinking something must be wrong.  He laughed and told me to be patient.  In a few days things settled down where things were mostly stable.  The only difference I'll say is that mine does sound better when warm, so I leave it on all the time.

[rollo]

  If caps or Trannie is changed 200 hours. If not 100.


charles

[smargo]

Break-in of solid state electronics is a myth.  When you get the amps back sit down, relax, enjoy the music, and don't obsess over any imaginary break-in period.

saying that solid state amps - dont have any break-in - is like saying a christmas tree doesn't have green bristles - its just my imagination

[twitch54]

saying that solid state amps - dont have any break-in - is like saying a christmas tree doesn't have green bristles - its just my imagination

why of course it is ............

https://www.treetopia.com/colored-artificial-christmas-trees-p/silver-tinsel-tree.htm

[charmerci]

why of course it is ............

https://www.treetopia.com/colored-artificial-christmas-trees-p/silver-tinsel-tree.htm

My father bought a cheap silver Christmas tree that we used all my childhood. Bleah. 

[diyman]

Personal opinion declared as fact, the colleague DD needs better help than this.

Au contraire.  This is exactly the help he and others need who believe that solid state electronics benefit from some mysterious break-in period.  Tubes probably yes.  Solid state not a chance.

[diyman]

I looked at the Odyssey website and right away there is a big red flag in their description of this amplifier.  The idea that capacitors form some sort of ‘memory bank’ is ridiculous.

The big electrolytic capacitors use in power supplies are there for one purpose – to stabilize the DC voltages used by the rest of the amplifier against fluctuations in the AC line voltage and provide instantaneous large current demands that may occur with the music.  They don’t remember anything.

To call this basic power supply function a ‘memory bank’ makes no sense. No one with any knowledge of electronics design would use that term.   Capacitor bank – yes.  Memory bank – no.

[klaus@odyssey]

Not again...sigh.

[diyman]

If you would care to explain how the term 'memory' has anything to do with a capacitor bank I'd be glad to hear it.  Apparently from your 'not again' comment I'm not the first or only one to question it.

[klaus@odyssey]

OK,  I'll give you a minute here:

1.  While memory might not be the most accurate term,  it is indeed intended for a more broader explanation for non-technical customers,  the same way that I usually explain watts / current with horsepower / torque.  Not everybody can be a hyper technical savant like you......

2.  The not again comment is based on the "break in doesn't make a difference" comment.....again,  your own misguided opinion based on ???who the hell knows what....some people might actually listen to audio components and come to a different conclusion.

Here is my position after 30 + years in the business and having listened to countless components etc:

A general rule, albeit a very generous one is that everything in your system has to break in between 100 - 200 hours,  be it active or passive components...as for actual products,  there are indeed differences....some estats or bipolar speakers need longer,  and (and we're not the only ones...Spectral,  Boulder, etc. have the same behavior) pretty much the worst case is a transient fast, high current ss amp,  which is exactly what we have....

3. So,  now that you have succeeded in spewing negative comments over the op's question,  are you happy to be a contrarian ????  Just curious.

[SoCalWJS]

Back to the OP’s question.

You’ve already ordered and awaiting the updates/upgrades/modifications.

Judge for yourself. Report back.

I’d choose a couple of pieces of music that you really enjoy, are well recorded, and that you are thoroughly familiar with. Listen to them first thing after you get everything back and hooked up. Give them a “critical” listen. Make notes of what you think. Then run them for a couple of hundred hours on everything & anything. Don’t do any critical listening at all. Have your system “running in the back ground”. Then later, try to recreate your initial listening conditions as closely as you can. Same time time of day. Same “Mood” (after having a nice meal the first time? - do that again. A drink? Same thing) Listen to the same pieces of music. Make some notes. Compare them.

Report back.

I know my own experiences and I am firmly in one camp. Go to ANY Hi Fi show. Talk to ANY of the Dealer/Manufacturers showing SS Amps. Ask them: “Do you try to allow some burn-in time on your Amps before showing them?“ (ask them how many hours they want on them before any of the Audio Reviewers come in to the room  )

I think you’ll hear the same answer over and over (and over), but I could be wrong.....

[diyman]

OK,  I'll give you a minute here:

1.  While memory might not be the most accurate term,  it is indeed intended for a more broader explanation for non-technical customers,  the same way that I usually explain watts / current with horsepower / torque.  Not everybody can be a hyper technical savant like you......

2.  The not again comment is based on the "break in doesn't make a difference" comment.....again,  your own misguided opinion based on ???who the hell knows what....some people might actually listen to audio components and come to a different conclusion.

Here is my position after 30 + years in the business and having listened to countless components etc:

A general rule, albeit a very generous one is that everything in your system has to break in between 100 - 200 hours,  be it active or passive components...as for actual products,  there are indeed differences....some estats or bipolar speakers need longer,  and (and we're not the only ones...Spectral,  Boulder, etc. have the same behavior) pretty much the worst case is a transient fast, high current ss amp,  which is exactly what we have....

3. So,  now that you have succeeded in spewing negative comments over the op's question,  are you happy to be a contrarian ????  Just curious.

1.   At least you agree that using the term ‘memory’ is not accurate with regard to describing the performance of a capacitor bank.  Thankfully you do understand that.

But what disturbs me is the idea that it’s alright to mislead customers by dumbing down subjects that they might not fully understand.  I see your obligation as a supplier to be exactly the opposite.  To explain to people what they need to know with the utmost accuracy, and not mask it in marketing gibberish in order to make more sales.

2.   The break-in myth is not a matter of my opinion.  It is the result of a proper understanding of the properties of electronic components.

This thread was started with DoubleD asking the very pertinent question:

“Which components are involved with this process and what is actually occurring during the break in?”

I answered him by saying none.  But so far no one else has provided an answer.  One person tried with a feeble “myriad of things”.  I doubt that will hold up as an acceptable answer on an electrical engineering exam.

So if you want to try to explain which components are involved and what is actually changing, I think DoubleD would be glad to have your answer.  I already gave him mine, and would love to see yours.


3.  I’m not actually happy having to make these comments or being a contrarian.  Frankly, I’d rather spend my time doing something else.  I see it more as a matter of trying to help people who are otherwise being mislead by some who have a wide variety of personal opinions that cannot be supported in any way by the engineering behind these circuits or components.

[diyman]

I know my own experiences and I am firmly in one camp. Go to ANY Hi Fi show. Talk to ANY of the Dealer/Manufacturers showing SS Amps. Ask them: “Do you try to allow some burn-in time on your Amps before showing them?“ (ask them how many hours they want on them before any of the Audio Reviewers come in to the room  )

I think you’ll hear the same answer over and over (and over), but I could be wrong.....

I would do exactly the same if I were a manufacture of solid state amps, or any other piece of electronic equipment for that matter.  But it has nothing to do with the sound changing.  There is a certain amount of component failures in new electronic equipment.  It is referred to as infant mortality and here is a link to a description of it:

http://nomtbf.com/2013/06/finding-and-eliminating-early-life-failures-where-the-money-is/

If I were putting a piece of equipment into a trade show I would want to be sure that it was well past the point of probable failure.  It has nothing to do with sound quality, which does not change with burn-in.