AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: JLM on 9 Aug 2018, 10:20 am
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Recently picked these active reference studio monitors up very slightly used. Reference studio monitors are used at the very best studios to produce the music, often audiophile quality recordings, we listen to. Active refers to the design where the low voltage signal passes through the crossover before the power amps (one channel of amplification per driver). Self-contained 2 and 3 way active monitors are common for studio work and have started to make an impact in the audiophile world.
Active design can have several advantages. Dynamics greatly enhanced, frequency response remarkably flat, and bass amazingly deep/full. Phase between drivers and other parameters can be corrected via use of a sophisticated crossover. The amps ‘see’ a simpler, more direct load to optimally synergize with the driver by the designer who is the position to select the amps. Note that most studio monitors are 2-way designs.
Studio monitors are intended for serious work, to find any flaws and come up with a sound that ‘translates’ correctly to the majority of consumer speakers and headphones. Unlike consumer speakers they’re primary purpose is not produce a pleasing, entertaining sound but an accurate sound to expedite the work at hand. Using reference studio monitors at home means you are entering the prosumer realm and want to hear the truth.
By the way James Bullough Lansing was a pioneering American audio engineer and started both Altec (All Technical Services Corporation) Lansing (1927) and JBL (1946). Now under the Harmon International umbrella with Crown, JBL has vast resources to develop all aspects of a studio monitor that few companies can match and is about as far away from DIY or mom and pop shops as you can imagine.
If you’ve followed jtwrace’s “My Harmon (JBL M2) Trip” thread in the Enclosures Circle, you’ll have an idea of the background of this family of studio monitors (305, 306, 308, 705i, 705P, 708i, 708P, and M2) which were first introduced a couple of years ago and covers a wide range of sizes and price ranges (from a small monitor at $150 MSRP each up to floor standers at $10,000 each MSRP). The third digit in the 3XX and 7XX models represent woofer diameter (in inches).
The 3 series are the high value options while the M2 is the statement product. In between is the 7 series that are truly reference studio monitors. None of these will win a beauty contest, they all come in black matte or satin, which is a plus in my book as these are machines, not furniture and no money is wasted in fancy veneering or finishes. 708P currently retails for $2000 each, was introduced last spring.
The entire series are 2-way speakers uses waveguide loaded tweeters to achieve constant directivity (search Earl Geddes or Audio Circle’s own Duke LeJeune - Audio Kinesis for more information) and ported cabinets. The 305, 306, 308, 705P, and 708P are active design while the 705i, 708i, and M2 use external amps and crossovers. Picking the right model is a matter of desired ultimate spls, use of a sub/external amp-crossover, and primarily room size.
The 705i/708i (i for installed) are intended for multi-channel setups. The 7 series like the M2 use a special compression tweeter. The 705P/708P (P for powered) was the last in the series to be released after studio folks asked for active versions. In this case two 250 watt class D amps. The 705P/708P also has a myriad of DSP functions built-in: DAC, 4 PEQ/8 room EQ bands, frame/speaker delays, etc. I’ve not experienced any of that (so far).
The 705/708 are meant for mid-field/open air use, which is how I use them, temporarily sitting on concrete blocks and pieces of 2x8 with thin/spongy drawer liner in between. The room is 8ft x 13ft x 21ft (Cardas Golden Cuboid) and set-up is roughly an equilateral triangle, 6 feet to side, away from walls. I have six GIK 244 panels but in this room are minimally effective regardless of how I’ve tried to set them up. Source is my MacBook playing ripped CD’s from iTunes (ALAC) or Tidal. Signal is processed by a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC/preamp/bass DSP unit that sits on a shelf spiked to the floor between the speakers. Cabling consists of 10ft Straightwire USB and 10ft Best-Tronic XLR interconnects. So a very minimalistic, speaker centric, system. No sub used unless noted.
I’ve been into stereo/audio for 40+ years and listen primarily to small ensemble jazz/classical and old pop, but do have latin, rock, new age, religious, orchestral/symphonic on my plate. The above room is a dedicated basement “study” (audio in front, office in back) and includes 3 bookcases on the side walls. So the room is well shaped, treated, bass DSP applied, and insulated plus has 3 dedicated audio circuits one per cryo’d hospital grade duplex receptacle that are grounded together separately from the rest of the house (and the house has a dedicated transformer). Appliances are all 13 years old or newer.
Was in the market for up-scale mid-field active studio monitors as I’ve listened to active speakers for 15 years (most of that time to single driver designs which are active by default). Thanks to Audio Circle members Poseidonsvoice and Russell Dawkins both suggesting the 708P as being thoroughly modern with a solid American background, I snatched these up from jtwrace, taking delivery of them on July 25th.
Other than these 708P’s the only other speakers in the family I’ve heard are the original 305’s (had them here for a week shortly after release) and recently an afternoon with fresh out of the box 305 Mk2’s with a couple of my audio club buddies. The Mk2's were noticeably improved over the originals (more detail, tighter bass, better imaging). While the originals were value leaders and did nothing wrong, they didn’t ‘light my fire’ however the Mk2's are quite enjoyable and would be very easy to live with long term.
But switching back over to the 708P's instantly makes you aware that they’re in another league, as I'd hope for 13 times the price! Way more dynamic (good fun), much deeper/fuller bass, highly accurate transmitting the detail directly to the listener’s ears like headphones, and deeper/wider soundstage. Plus the 708P's have all those DSP related features. Adding a sub has really only helped with bass heavy music and added a sense of feel to that bass.
Have been playing around with positioning (moving them several inches at a time, not a believer in fussy speakers or making half inch changes). A friend suggested facing them ‘straight ahead’ versus aimed at the listener, which indeed did help widen the soundstage beyond the speakers without losing the center stage imaging and softened the sometimes aggressive upper midrange experienced at higher spls.
The 708P’s are indeed very serious working monitors, not speakers to be ignored or passed over for casually entertaining. The size (17.35”H x 9.85”W x 12.30”D), weight (25 pounds), the large waveguide, permanently mounted woofer grill, and matte black finish with built-in side handles give warning to all that up front. They demand your attention. The overall sonic presentation is not for light weight sissies: they are more forward than recessed, hard hitting, and take no prisoners, yet are ruthless of only the poorest of recordings.
The 708P’s project sound like not nothing I've heard before at home. Volume levels are adjusted much more often due to their extreme dynamic nature. So they’re addictive to play at higher levels but may sound best at lower levels. They deserve the very best ancillaries (looking to upgrade my front end). Colored gear would defeat the purpose of this reference studio monitor. Listening to these reference studio monitors makes one realize that you may be hearing the recording better than anyone else has ever heard it before (in studio or home), they are truly State of The Art.
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Nice write up, Jeff. :thumb:
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You captured it very well Jeff :thumb:
When I first described my newly arrived M2's to Jason, the words "surgical precision" came to mind. They tell no lies, yet make the music completely enjoyable, a tough trick to pull off.
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James did not start ALL Techncal (Altec), he was actually bought out by ALL Technical in 1941. He also agreed not to do any audio business for a period of 5 years after the sale. It was after the sale that All Technical changed (shortened) its name to Altec Lansing (keeping the Lansing name for industry recognition).
The 708P is intended to be powered by a preamp or console.
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Great write up, Jeff. Thank you. :thumb:
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Thanks, JLM -- much appreciated. Thanks also for answering some of my specific questions via PM.
Question for everyone/anyone: not to hijack, but does anyone know if there are any substantial differences between the 705P ($999/ea) and the 708P ($1999/ea) other than the cabinet/woofer size and ultimate SPLs? I assume the amps are the same as is all the DSP technology, etc. If I have a subwoofer that I like, I am wondering if a 705P + sub configuration would give much/anything up versus a 708P standalone configuration.
Thanks, -dGB
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Thanks, JLM -- much appreciated. Thanks also for answering some of my specific questions via PM.
Question for everyone/anyone: not to hijack, but does anyone know if there are any substantial differences between the 705P ($999/ea) and the 708P ($1999/ea) other than the cabinet/woofer size and ultimate SPLs? I assume the amps are the same as is all the DSP technology, etc. If I have a subwoofer that I like, I am wondering if a 705P + sub configuration would give much/anything up versus a 708P standalone configuration.
Thanks, -dGB
dGB - Have you read through this thread? https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-705p-708p.1303/
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Great stuff and write up. Regarding the forward nature of the sound, I found the same thing with the SP Tech Minis which used a fair sized wave guide, as well as with a pair of Geddes Nathans, although to a lesser degree, if memory serves me correctly. At this point I am inclined to believe that wave guide speakers will come off as more direct and forward than non wavers. It must be how it propagates the sound waves into a forward sound beam.
I was wondering where in the world you find a used pair, but aha, from another audio fool junkie on this audio caste away ship. :lol:
Myself, since I own a pair of wonderful Rythmik FM8 subs that play up to 200 hz very well I would go for the 705s and I doubt I would miss a beat.
Rocket Ronny
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Great stuff and write up. Regarding the forward nature of the sound, I found the same thing with the SP Tech Minis which used a fair sized wave guide, as well as with a pair of Geddes Nathans, although to a lesser degree, if memory serves me correctly. At this point I am inclined to believe that wave guide speakers will come off as more direct and forward than non wavers. It must be how it propagates the sound waves into a forward sound beam.
I was wondering where in the world you find a used pair, but aha, from another audio fool junkie on this audio caste away ship. :lol:
Rocket Ronny
Guitar Center had a used pair for $2200(!!) a little while back. You can check there and see if they are still there (doubt it).
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159022.msg1698609#msg1698609 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159022.msg1698609#msg1698609)
Since these are usually sold as studio monitors, it would behoove thee to peruse the major gear websites (Sweetwater, GC, Musician's Friend, etc.) from time-to-time.
Best, -dGB
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dGB - Have you read through this thread? https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-705p-708p.1303/
I think I saw part of that a while back, but I should go back to the woodshed and re-research.
Thanks, -dGB
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James did not start ALL Techncal (Altec), he was actually bought out by ALL Technical in 1941. He also agreed not to do any audio business for a period of 5 years after the sale. It was after the sale that All Technical changed (shortened) its name to Altec Lansing (keeping the Lansing name for industry recognition).
The 708P is intended to be powered by a preamp or console.
Currently using a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core which is a DAC/preamp that also does bass DSP (4.0 volt balanced output).
And the 708P has digital AES/EBU inputs so can be fed directly from a USB digital source such as a Tuscam UH-7000 (24 dBu professional output) or the soon to be released miniDSP SHD Studio (4.0 volt balanced output).
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Thanks, JLM -- much appreciated. Thanks also for answering some of my specific questions via PM.
Question for everyone/anyone: not to hijack, but does anyone know if there are any substantial differences between the 705P ($999/ea) and the 708P ($1999/ea) other than the cabinet/woofer size and ultimate SPLs? I assume the amps are the same as is all the DSP technology, etc. If I have a subwoofer that I like, I am wondering if a 705P + sub configuration would give much/anything up versus a 708P standalone configuration.
Thanks, -dGB
I believe the amps are the same, seeing how class D is already small/efficient. Pretty sure that the DSP technology is the same as the owner's manual is used for both speakers. As the waveguide is smaller, the constant directivity effect would be somewhat reduced. I wouldn't lose much sleep over the difference between 705Ps with sub versus 708Ps without (in fact I'd lose more sleep over spending the extra if buying 708Ps at MSRP).
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Do you hook up an analog preamp output or digital output directly to each speaker - one channel to each speaker? Do the speakers have to be connected to each other too for any reason?
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Jeff,
Only too happy to help you come to a decision to what I have always felt is the foregone conclusion: Properly designed wave guide based loudspeakers absolutely ROCK! :wink:
Enjoy,
Anand.
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Do you hook up an analog preamp output or digital output directly to each speaker - one channel to each speaker? Do the speakers have to be connected to each other too for any reason?
Yes, I connect my preamp outputs directly to each speaker - one channel to each. Too simple isn't it? My system has 3 signal cables: digital USB into the DAC/preamp, right channel low voltage analog to the right speaker, and left channel low voltage analog to the left speaker with 4 components: MacBook, DSPeaker DAC/preamp, and 2 speakers.
The JBL 708P has inputs for XLR (balanced, one analog channel) and AES/EBU (one digital channel). So in a simple stereo setup you run one signal cable (analog XLR or digital AES/EBU) to each speaker. There is no need to connect them together, but there is also a AES/EBU (one digital channel) output, so you could send the same digital signal to multi speakers.
Most home audio gear use RCA (single ended) low voltage analog signal connecters that use two leads (one for signal and one for shared return and ground). Professional gear uses three lead XLR or TRS (balanced) to separate the ground. This allows freedom from grounding and RF issues. So the 708P requires a preamp with balanced outputs (or a 'cheater' adaptor/cable with RCA on one and and XLR on the other end).
The other option as I mentioned above is to use something like the Tascam UH-7000 which converts USB to AES/EBU and digitally controls volume, then run a XLR style AES/EBU cable to each 708P and use the multi-purpose DSP (Digital Signal Processor) within the speaker to make the Digital to Analog Conversion (DAC). This keeps the signal digital all the way until the analog outputs from each amplifier channel.
Connecting passive speakers together was done by a couple of companies decades ago for "enhancing" the soundstage. Lately it's been done mostly for powered speakers (where one cabinet contains a two channel amplifier, one for each speaker, with the connecting cable sending the high voltage signal to the other speaker). Note that in powered speakers one channel of amplification powers both woofer and tweeter with high voltage (simple) crossover splitting the signal between drivers just like a traditional passive home speaker. Audioengine speakers are examples of powered speakers. They have the advantage over traditional passive speakers of saving the separate amplifier cabinet but schematically (electrically) are the same. One disadvantage of this design is that one speaker has a longer speaker cable and the other has a very short cable inside the cabinet.
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Alto Music on Amazon is selling the 708P for $1298/ea (under $2600/pr.). Wowza.
https://smile.amazon.com/JBL-Professional-708P-Bi-Amplified-Reference/dp/B01N28EKMS/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&colid=NCRYXBNXTFCV&coliid=I24FTNE3OBPB0Q&me= (https://smile.amazon.com/JBL-Professional-708P-Bi-Amplified-Reference/dp/B01N28EKMS/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&colid=NCRYXBNXTFCV&coliid=I24FTNE3OBPB0Q&me=)
Enjoy, -dGB
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Any thoughts on how these would compare with my Gedlee Abbeys? Is it essentially the same or is the Geddes Waveguide superior in any way? It is definitely shaped different.
Cheers,
James
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Thanks for the question James.
Had the opportunity to visit Earl Geddes and hear his 7.3 system a couple of months ago during a local audio club meeting. Unfamiliar with the music, so hard to compare but his room was very similarly sized/shaped and otherwise designed to mine. Overall, being a proud papa, I'd say that I'm very pleased with the 708P's. Amps were both Harmon/Crown, but his system was optimized for video (front speakers behind the screen). Earl is a self-professed movie hound.
Circular shape of waveguide is superior in my mind only if you need to lay the monitors on their sides or you listen laying on your side as the relatively wide dispersion of the JBL waveguide better suits side-by-side human ear orientation and most listening space dimensions (wider than tall) which in my understanding would support the whole purpose of controlled directivity (to limit room interaction).
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People that are interested in the 708P might be interested in these links.
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/JBL-708P-Charts.pdf
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Interpreting-Spinorama-Charts.pdf
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I can't understand why anyone would not want to replicate what the engineer heard in the studio. So simple and cost effective.
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People that are interested in the 708P might be interested in these links.
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/JBL-708P-Charts.pdf
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Interpreting-Spinorama-Charts.pdf
Remarkable similarity between the 708P measurements and the measurements of Speaker B (excellent studio monitor) in the second pdf. It's almost like they could be the same speaker. :lol:
-dGB
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Thanks for the links Jason. Floyd Toole is my audio 'hero'.
WD, I agree with you 100%. I too don't understand why audiophiles buy vertical arrays, dipoles, omni-directional, MTM, and other non-monitor type speakers.
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People that are interested in the 708P might be interested in these links.
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/JBL-708P-Charts.pdf
https://www.sausalitoaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Interpreting-Spinorama-Charts.pdf
Great reads, thanks! It’ll save me a ton of time explaining this to people as they are getting tired of me saying “Buy Floyd’s book!!!”
That being said, the third edition is excellent.
Best,
Anand.
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I have the 705P. Bought from Sweetwater along with Pro Jax and Mogami XLR interconnects. I'm driving them with an OPPO Sonica. They differ from the 708P in size and weight and woofer diameter, as well as in lower extension. 3 db down point is 45 hz. for the 705 and 41 hz. for the 708. Only other difference is ultimate SPL. The 705 is 101 db. and the 708 goes a little louder. That's it. If you are in a small to average room you might prefer the 705 if you will be using a sub anyway. I don't need one with these and many of you might not either.
Don't get around much myself so my basis for comparison is my own large hybrid horn system in the living room. In an auditorium the AH 300 horns would obscure these little guys but in a residential system, the JBL 705P may be the equal of my large system, which incidentally, has an OPPO UHD 205 working as preamp DAC. In other words, both systems have the same DAC. Big horns are driven by a Crown XLS 1500. I find I really like living without outboard amp and speaker wires.
For just under $2K you can buy a pair of excellent amps, cables and speakers. Add a streamer and forget about everything else. My speakers and all electronics weigh about 35 lbs. total. Speakers are 12.5 each and the Sonica is 10.2 lbs.
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I have the 705P. Bought from Sweetwater along with Pro Jax and Mogami XLR interconnects. I'm driving them with an OPPO Sonica. They differ from the 708P in size and weight and woofer diameter, as well as in lower extension. 3 db down point is 45 hz. for the 705 and 41 hz. for the 708. Only other difference is ultimate SPL. The 705 is 101 db. and the 708 goes a little louder. That's it. If you are in a small to average room you might prefer the 705 if you will be using a sub anyway. I don't need one with these and many of you might not either.
Two quick follow-up questions for you, MJ:
1. What is your listening room like for the 705Ps? I'm curious primarily how far away you sit and whether you have noticed any problems with listening further away than midfield (approx. 6-8').
2. Did you compare the 705s and 708s? If so, what were your direct impressions?
Thanks in advance, -dGB
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705P are located in small bedroom (115 x 140 x 96 inches). When my son moved on, I commandeered it as the TV room/mancave.
I find the bass to be reinforced too much unless they are away at least 18 inches from the front wall. My speakers and I comprise an equilateral triangle, seven feet per side. They are on B&W stands that I had on hand. Between the speakers and stands, I have a product called ProJax. They are some soft material that seems to kill vibrations. 8 adjustable pucks for $50. They definitely work out here in Colorado. Never heard either 705 or 708 before I installed them here. Bought on the strength of confidence in brand and recommendation of friends. They even contain DSP and DACs. You really only need a digital XLR source. Simply cannot imagine more bang for the buck under $2000. Find a real review to read or call Sweetwater and ask all the questions you want. They were very nice and very patient with me, a geezer who looks the part.
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This is helpful. I am considering a pair of 708ps or 705ps to replace a larger pair of open baffle speakers in my room. With the 705ps, the only negative I noticed about this was a SoundOnSound review, which highlighted an organ-pipe resonance ~ 750 Hz. I do see that in JBL's spinorama plots as well (linked above). It does seem to be mostly reduced on the 708s.
Plan is to run these out my PS Audio DS Jr. at about ~9 ft in a relatively small room. I do plan on augmenting the 705 or 708 with a dual-opposed 12" sub. Certainly the 705s would save me a fair bit of $, but I am concerned about that organ pipe resonance vs. the 708.
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Plan is to run these out my PS Audio DS Jr. at about ~9 ft in a relatively small room. I do plan on augmenting the 705 or 708 with a dual-opposed 12" sub. Certainly the 705s would save me a fair bit of $, but I am concerned about that organ pipe resonance vs. the 708.
These puppies are only 12 lbs. As I've said in other threads (on the 305 and 705), that the cabinets seem to be the weak spot. I braced the walls (lodged in some cut to size dowels) of my 305P's and it made a huge difference in making them have tighter/less boomy bass.
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These puppies are only 12 lbs. As I've said in other threads (on the 305 and 705), that the cabinets seem to be the weak spot. I braced the walls (lodged in some cut to size dowels) of my 305P's and it made a huge difference in making them have tighter/less boomy bass.
At the price point of the 7-series (vs. the 3-series), I assume the cabinet construction is substantially better, is it not?
-dGB
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https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jbl-7-series
There is the link you are referring to. I scanned it briefly as I don't have much time at the moment but it looks as those this is very close up measurement on the port's addition. Since you are planning to add subs, might I suggest plugged the port with something lending to a more, I forget the name, but quasi-sealed design for lack of a better word. That will help with blending with the subs as well.
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It isn't the cabinets that leads to that graph, it is the port noise. See the measurement. I don't know how audible this is at distance.
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I too don't understand why audiophiles buy vertical arrays, dipoles, omni-directional, MTM, and other non-monitor type speakers.
(I'm going to assume you mean a bookshelf-sized near (mid?) field studio monitor like the 708p since that is the topic of the thread.)
Vertical arrays: because they load the room differently than other speaker types and can fill a large room with a very big sound that makes big, powerful music enjoyable for folks in such big rooms (and can easily handle doing double duty for home theater), moving air in quantities no small monitor could possibly match if put to the same task...
Dipoles (open baffles?): because they load the room differently than other speaker types, can potentially (OB) do away with box colorations monitor speakers can minimize but not completely avoid, replacing them with subjectively more pleasing (or perceptionally closer to "live" or "real" music) reverberant sound intentionally and strategically fired into the room in addition to that coming from a radiation pattern a monitor type speaker can produce that a monitor type speaker just can't do, as well as likely move air in quantities no small monitor could possibly match if put to task...
Omnidirectional: because they load the room differently than other speaker types, can create a possibly less intense for one listening chair but more homogenously enjoyable sound for a larger group of people moving casually through a room which by design and intent a monitor type speaker can perhaps try to broaden but just can't (and won't) do...
MTM: because efficiency gained through paralleling woofers creates a speaker that plays more effectively with less amplifier power required at a chosen moderate volume level, allowing a wider variety of upstream electronics choices both to suit subjective listening tastes and greater opportunities for enjoyment through hobbyist audiophile tinkering in a package that produces a reasonable frequency range in a small footprint in-room and (in a small floorstander) does not require stands and might be somewhat safer for pets, kids, etc., providing some advantages (again, including moving more air) in comparison to a monitor-type speaker...
Look, I'm glad you're very happy with your newest speaker purchase, and there are a lot of people in a lot of places saying these speakers do a lot of things very right, but to answer your own (probably intended to a be rhetorical) question would be as simple as asking why you bought the speakers you did along the way before settling (for now?) on what you've got now, which if memory serves were decidedly not powered studio monitors.
People that are interested in the 708P might be interested in these links...
Thank you very much for these links! This is the easiest to follow explanation of how to interpret Harman's spins I've read yet (and I dragged myself through pages of AVSForum trying the last time I took a stab at it without much success).
I know it is probably heresy in this thread (no Klipsch pun intended considering the conversation about JBL) but the 708p data presented really gets me wondering again what the 708i looks like plotted without its DSP correction. Sure, it won't be as good on paper as after DSP or as the powered 708p, but I wonder again if with a little judicious massaging of the passive crossover in the 708i that the basic design could get say 95% of the good stuff this speaker has been praised as doing into the hands of the masses in audiophile-land that aren't ready to sell off their whole systems and start over. Kind of like the 4367, from most accounts having heard both, isn't quite the M2, but it is still a pretty darn fine speaker and gets a lot of the big-picture magic from the method in a more audiophile mainstream package.
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It isn't the cabinets that leads to that graph, it is the port noise. See the measurement. I don't know how audible this is at distance.
Agreed.
The author also said:
However, pink noise and music are different beasts, and with the constantly changing character of most music, it would be very hard consistently to pin down and identify the effect.
It was almost as if he had seen the measurement first and then backtracked and found some subjective way of discovering it.
It seems that unless you were in the immediate nearfield, like computer speakers, this “resonance” may not be audible. I think macrojack’s input would be important to consider since he owns the product and seems pleased with it.
Best,
Anand.
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A few comments:
Danvprod - I can't address your organ pipe concern but I will say that the 705P is all you would want in a small room. I speak privately by phone with JLM pretty regularly about our respective speakers and our incompetence in the face of making digital audio consistently useful. He said that the 708P was actually quite a lot of speaker for his purpose built dedicated listening room which is nearly 3x the volume of my room. After noticing that neither the ability to reach 4 hz. lower or play a few db louder were not things I need in my setting. Additionally, anyone using a subwoofer would not need to discriminate between the two as lower reach concerns would be obviated in either case. The 708P is quite a lot larger and heavier and I think it looks more "commercial" (industrial?) with its recessed carrying handles. Save the two grand and buy705P.
Charmerci - You come off like a crackpot. JBL appears to have created their best effort at grabbing a big piece of the studio monitoring business with these active studio monitors. They broke new ground by designing them with compression drivers. They designed them with installation fly points. They voiced them to perfection and marketed them to the most important ears in the recording industry, people who will not be tricked by gimmicks, ads or oversights. And here you come, never having seen nor heard either speaker, with a pronouncement that the cabinets appear to be the weak link. Are you a clairvoyant?
dburna - I have not seen a 305 in the flesh so cannot comment on cabinet construction vs. 705P. However, I think all genuinely professional gear is well constructed as they are tools - not toys.
JoshK - I have recognized no sound from the ports and will not listen for it. Don't believe in creating dissatisfaction. My listening is for enjoyment, rather than a furthering of the speaker design trade. It does seem to me that extreme nearfield (like a desktop) listening would be at a commensurately lower SPL, making any port breath proportionally less evident. As you move out to my 7 foot distance no port sound is apparent.
Anand - I am not merely pleased with my speakers. I reached that point before I plugged them in. Currently I'm nudging the lower edges of the ecstasy spectrum. These little guys will outperform anything limited to conventional dome tweeter passive 2 way design. JBL has been designing around and designing compression drivers for more years than I have been processing oxygen. They have created a game changing compact monitor with heretofore unsurpassed versatility and proficiency. Everyone who uses monitors should investigate. Glad I did.
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How do these sound at very low listening levels? Say 55-65db?
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My 705P are in a small room used for my computer, my TV, and my streaming system. Typically these are playing at or below the range you asked about. They are sublte in detail, forceful in delivery and surprising in bass texture and location of instruments. Wonderful sense of precision. Very relaxed delivery of the quiet jazz or folky content I listen to when not really listening. Doubtful you could find anything to fault despite the fact that you appear to be well versed in the liturgy of speaker criteria and listening. The big question for me is: "Can they make you forget about Acoustat?". Probably not, given the size difference. The side panels measure just less than 11 inches both ways and the front width is under 6 inches. Bass out of these little guys will surprise you.
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... the 708p data presented really gets me wondering again what the 708i looks like plotted without its DSP correction. Sure, it won't be as good on paper as after DSP or as the powered 708p, but I wonder again if with a little judicious massaging of the passive crossover in the 708i that the basic design could get say 95% of the good stuff this speaker has been praised as doing into the hands of the masses in audiophile-land that aren't ready to sell off their whole systems and start over. Kind of like the 4367, from most accounts having heard both, isn't quite the M2, but it is still a pretty darn fine speaker and gets a lot of the big-picture magic from the method in a more audiophile mainstream package.
I own both the 708i (side surrounds) and 705i (atmos)**. They require that you load the tuning files into the crown DSP amps just like you would with the M2. So whether or not you are powered or passive they get the same treatment. I haven't looked into how much shaping is in that DSP file, but it is somewhere on AVSforum that folks were talking about it.
**[This is extreme overkill in my apartment. I bought before I moved when I had a large dedicated HT in my basement.]
JoshK - I have recognized no sound from the ports and will not listen for it. Don't believe in creating dissatisfaction. My listening is for enjoyment, rather than a furthering of the speaker design trade. It does seem to me that extreme nearfield (like a desktop) listening would be at a commensurately lower SPL, making any port breath proportionally less evident. As you move out to my 7 foot distance no port sound is apparent.
You are far better off with this frame of mind as the issue is really a non-issue IMO. I think that SoS (don't really know that publication) reviews a lot of gear and tries to be objective in their critique. It looks as though they found one minor quibble. However, given all the research Harmon does and the extent they go to figure out what is and is not important, I doubt very seriously they overlooked this if they thought it was significant. The fact that one can hear it with pink noise means little in terms of audibility with music. My addition was just that if it bothers you stuff the port a bit, even the reviewer did the same and said it took it away with pink noise.
My days of worrying about things that make absolutely no difference in perceived sound quality are virtually over (it is hard to completely divorce oneself of all biases). The more I understand the science of sound reproduction the less I believe in most audiophilisms. Don't get me started on cables! I participated in a non-scientific but eye(ear?) opening single blind test with 4 home theater oriented speakers. It really reinforced how easily our biases creep into our evaluations until you take the knowing what you are listening to away. Some of us could definitely hear differences between the speakers, but it was a lot harder to be consistent of which is which than one might imagine. Speakers [and room] are objectively easier to distinguish the difference from than anything else in the playback chain.
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At the price point of the 7-series (vs. the 3-series), I assume the cabinet construction is substantially better, is it not?
-dGB
Very possibly. I guess I should have tempered my response by saying I've never seen/experienced the 705/8P - again, at only 12lbs with amp and with the "organ-pipe" resonance - and my experience with my 305P's that everyone said was fabulous - which at their price point are excellent - but I wasn't that thrilled with them. A lot of wooly (not tight) bass that I didn't care for, until I braced and put non-drying clay on the woofer baskets. They were just SO much better on the low end.
Was just throwing my .03 out there. I could very well be wrong.
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Just saw this ad on US Audio Mart for anyone that is interested: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649484869-jbl-lsr-708p-708-master-reference-studio-monitors-in-excellent-shape-low-hours-with-original-boxes/ (https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649484869-jbl-lsr-708p-708-master-reference-studio-monitors-in-excellent-shape-low-hours-with-original-boxes/).
-dGB
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Thanks for a great description!
I intend to use the JBLs with digital input - HD audio files.
Would you recommend getting a separate DAC vs. using the one built into the speakers?
Thanks in advance!
Hilmir
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Very possibly. I guess I should have tempered my response by saying I've never seen/experienced the 705/8P - again, at only 12lbs with amp and with the "organ-pipe" resonance - and my experience with my 305P's that everyone said was fabulous - which at their price point are excellent - but I wasn't that thrilled with them. A lot of wooly (not tight) bass that I didn't care for, until I braced and put non-drying clay on the woofer baskets. They were just SO much better on the low end.
Was just throwing my .03 out there. I could very well be wrong.
Agree with Charmeci's experience. I also have the LSR305. It's OK stock, but you can hear smearing from the box. I beefed up the baffles with Durham wood putty (one can for each) and lined the box with No-Rez from GR-research, then added the LSR310 subs with high pass option to remove bass below 80 Hz from the monitor. Much better (esp with the sub)... I think the LSR305 is a very well designed speaker, only limited by the part quality at its price point. Make sure to feed it with high quality DAC. Heck, you can't DIY a decent pair of speakers at $300 including amp.
Duc
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I intend to use the JBLs with digital input - HD audio files.
Would you recommend getting a separate DAC vs. using the one built into the speakers?
Thanks in advance!
Hilmir
My feeling is the room aspect (room dimensions, speaker positioning, acoustic treatment, etc.) are far more relevant factors to sound quality than variability between DACs. Go with the built in DAC and spend money elsewhere.