[simon wagstaff]

I have had an original sub for many years. Just got the opportunity to pick up a pair of newer, but not latest smaller subs with megawoofer.  I have the amp power and I use an old audio control richter scale for a little room eq.  So, am I going to be gaining anything at all by doing this or is it going to turn out to be a waste of money? I personally seem to notice that the bass is coming from the one corner where the sub is so I would like to smooth out response a little and get rid of this effect.

Also, noticed an improvement when placing the sub on some cones, should I do this for the pair of smaller subs also?

BTW the main system is a pair of Infinity Intermezzo 4.1s driven by and AVA Ultimate 70.  I know it is a little crazy since I have 1,700 watts from the Infinities and an additional 250 a channel into the subs.  Phil Lesh doesn't seem to mind, though.



Not sure what to do with the old original sub, I am sure my wife would love to see it in the living room with a little system I could put together.



Thanks!

[dubravko]

In my system, a pair of Smaller subs recently replaced a pair of Originals (eventually I will return to a pair of Originals or Largers). Original subs are better than Smaller, meaning they go a bit deeper. However, two Smaller subwoofers with Megawoofers, well placed and adjusted are better than one Original, at least for me. A pair of subwoofers always merge better into the sound field, most often it's easier to find a best place for a pair than a single one, and distortions are lower.

[simon wagstaff]

O.K., have everything set up.  It says right on the back of the speakers not to use cones so that answers that!

Mooved the original into the second system where it will be paired up with some Wharfedale Diamond Anniversaries. We will see how that goes.

The pair of subs smoothed out room response.  Very little EQ was required from my Audio control richter scale.  Bass is a little more toneful and detailed, it is a subtle difference, but that is what it is all about, no? Seems a little faster, they have a 12" passive radiator while the Original has a 15" PR.  for what I spend, used, a nice upgrade.  I think that Brian has commented elsewhere that a pair of subs is the way to go and I can certainly agree.

[duggie]

simon, two subs is always better than one, imo, as long as quality isn't compromised.  does your richter scale allow for stereo subs, or are you running mono?  if you hook 'em up as stereo, things will get even better...

[John Casler]

simon, two subs is always better than one, imo, as long as quality isn't compromised.  does your richter scale allow for stereo subs, or are you running mono?  if you hook 'em up as stereo, things will get even better...

  4 is even better than 2 aa

[duggie]

simon, two subs is always better than one, imo, as long as quality isn't compromised.  does your richter scale allow for stereo subs, or are you running mono?  if you hook 'em up as stereo, things will get even better...

  4 is even better than 2 aa

 

[gooberdude]

Hey Guys,

With stereo subs, does the sound integrate with the room better?

i've been listening mono with a good set-up, but when i close my eyes its easy to know
where the sub is located - and its located in the corner.    i've tried multiple spots and it sounds the best there, but it isn't invisible.

Just wondering if stereo subs 'disapear' better?    My room is acoustically treated...

[duggie]

Hey Guys,

With stereo subs, does the sound integrate with the room better?

i've been listening mono with a good set-up, but when i close my eyes its easy to know
where the sub is located - and its located in the corner.    i've tried multiple spots and it sounds the best there, but it isn't invisible.

Just wondering if stereo subs 'disapear' better?    My room is acoustically treated...

imo?  absolutely!!! 

check out what mike dzurko has to say about it.  (start from lazydays' post):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=34806.10

and, check out what brian cheney says about it:

"Based on my experience with the STIIISRE in my soundroom, there is no doubt in my mind that a pair of the VLA woofer towers provide the best possible bass loading for a room that size.  There is a large difference between a pair of very good subs like the VSS and a pair of VLA, mostly in how the room is energized.  The effect is akin to the spread of a symphony orchestra across a stage, even if most bass is coming from a single area.

The customer for the RM40/V60 was trying to keep costs down, thus the single woofer.  As our CES experience showed, stereo bass is much more realistic even in a small room, more so in a large one."
from:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=36133.0

[refmedia]

Ditto! Stereo subs are a requirement IMHO.

[warnerwh]

I just added a second sub and the peaks and dips have been somewhat tamed by the addition of the second sub. I'd been concerned that the second sub could theoretically cause larger peaks and dips. There's a Harmon paper on this at their site. Odds are in your favor that the second sub will balance the room acoustics better.

I don't know how you can locate the sub. I've never used mine above 60hz though. Even using one sub with my RM 40's bass imaging is excellent. No way can you tell where the sub is. Same with two, you just can't tell. If I turned one or both way up maybe I'd notice it then.

Both of my subs are placed next to my mains which puts the subs right next to a wall and not far from the corner behind them. I moved my crossover to 60hz from 45 now that I have two. The overall presentation has improved as well as the way bass energizes my room.

[dubravko]

The pair of subs smoothed out room response.

There's a possibility for even more smoothness with a pair of Veritone subs, but it'll seem heretical when you first read about it.

I had a par of subs for years, crossed over very low (always below 40Hz), various main speakers driven full range (RM40, RM2, 626R, RM30). Several months ago I accidentally fried my electronic xo. While on repair, I missed low bass that subwoofers provided enough to use them without electronic xo, but still being able to fine tune their volume using simple passive device connected to subwoofer's amplifier input. To my surprise, when I adjusted subwoofers' volume right, overall sound was better than what I had with electronic xo. Effects of strong room resonance I have at 39 Hz were much less apparent, there was no mid or upper bass hump I expected. Overall tonality and sound field were very convincing. This is how this configuration looks like with RM30 C + Smaller Subwoofers, but I first used it with RM2 FST and Original Subwoofers.



Inclusion of Behringer DEQ2496 into my system smoothed bass response even more, to the point that I don't consider using any electronic xo in foreseeable future. Also, DEQ2496 seems to be the best thing that happened to audio after Veritone speakers.

If that can be a kind of proof that I'm not only imagining this to myself, I now have a customer, an experienced long term audiophile who previously owned very respectable equipment (last speakers being $13.000/pair), and now decided he wants a closest replica of my system that he can get in his own space (that were RM2s + Originals without any xo and without any equalization, my custom amplifiers, etc.). I had not heard such a system out of my room so far, so I'll know how it's going to work elsewhere only after he receives his RM2s.

Is there at least any comb filtering or time smearing in this configuration as a downside? I don't know, might be, then again, I cannot point to any aspect of sound that is now worse than with electronic xo on subs. Sound field is more evenly filled, imaging is better, tonality is better... All in all, daily goosebumps guaranteed.

Of course, placing of subwoofers is critical, they need to be precisely positioned in respect to the main speakers.

[DonnieW]

What a killer setup man 

I agree about the DEQ2496.  It took out what was the single biggest issue in my setup, a mode around 35Hz.  No matter how many subs I mixed and matched, the mode haunted me.

[gooberdude]

I could have a lot of fun in a listening room like that!!    wow!!!!!   


i'm saving up to buy a 2nd sub, unfortuneatly i've tweaked my single sub a bit & wouldn't
be happy unless i could match it exactly with the same stand & footers...so its gonna be a few months  b4 i'm rockin' stereo subs.

last night i received a 6' length of Chris Venhaus' Flavor 2 cable - its quite amazing with my sub.

the built in x-over of the Hsu sub is set at 37Hz.  With the stock pc I could locate the sub (with my eyes closed) but now with the Flavor 2 it disappears.   This new cable has a LOT of tone, and its only been in use for a few hours....quite cool.      i have the smallest Hsu sub with the 150 watt amp, I figured the Flavor 4 would be overkill.  Using the pc with Furutech fi-11M male plug and a cryo'd wattgate female IEC from chris venhaus (the $15 one).

seems like the volume, or output, is higher with the Flavor 2.

matt

[dubravko]

Thank you Donnie, Matt,
I certainly love it...

I think DEQ2496 deserves its own circle.

[refmedia]

I think DEQ2496 deserves its own circle.

Could not agree more the DEQ is beyond stunning for the price.

The pair of subs smoothed out room response.

but still being able to fine tune their volume using simple passive device connected to subwoofer's amplifier input. To my surprise, when I adjusted subwoofers' volume right, overall sound was better than what I had with electronic xo.

What kind of passive device?
Beautiful room by the way!

Matt

[warnerwh]

And to anyone reading this I consider the DEQ 2496 the tweak of the decade. It is truly a necessity if you want the best sound. Even my fully treated room has benefited significantly from the Behringer.

[dubravko]

What kind of passive device?

Pictured below; female RCA, multiturn trimmer pot, cable, male RCA. I use the same amplifiers for main speakers and subwoofers. Subwoofers are always louder than mains so they need attenuation. With this device it's easy to do that very precisely. It is placed between preamp and power amp, on the power amp end.