AudioCircle
Music and Media => The Cinema => Topic started by: WGH on 24 Jul 2023, 01:12 am
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(https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/meta/meta-v3-en_US.jpg)
Oppenheimer is another Christopher Nolan masterpiece, in both acting, cinematography and sound design. The 3 hours movie isn't a documentary about how to build a bomb but a character study about the man who conceived and designed it and, at the end, the men who wanted to disgrace him for both political and personal reasons.
As always sound design is a main element in Christopher Nolan films. The movie goes from silence to extreme in the blink of an eye. Many times the volume verges on being too loud but not quite, dialog is always clear and understandable, experience has tempered Nolan's impulses. When Oppenheimer is eventually streamed a home theater will have to be able to handle a wide dynamic range along with instantaneous unlimited power for a viewer to realize the full emotional impact.
(https://www.xfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/oppenheimer.png)
Oppenheimer was filmed using 65mm film and transferred to 70mm film for theaters. The scenes are in both color and black and white as only film can reproduce them. The black and white scenes have a period look that can't be reproduced using digital. The color is classic with subtlety and depth and texture never seen in digital, no soap opera effect here. This is what going to the movies is all about. My friends cheap 65" Samsung TV with soundbar is absolutely going to destroy this film.
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/68b/0d7/43a8e167d559952f3e0159beff14f0e4d9-oppenheimer.1x.rsquare.w1400.jpg)
(https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/2023/06/screen_shot_2023-06-16_at_9.37.38_am.jpg)
The acting is beyond reproach, everyone disappears into their roles. Cillian Murphy, Florence Pugh, Emily Blunt are outstanding, Robert Downey Jr. as Lewis Strauss is unrecognizable and is unlike any role he has acted in before.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=254956&size=xlarge)
Matt Damon plays Leslie Groves perfectly and with great success, we can almost forget it's Matt Damon.
(https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2023/07/Leslie-Groves-Matt-Damon-Oppenheimer-564d42c.jpg?quality=90&webp=true&resize=620,414)
See Openheimer in a theater if you can, 70mm if possible. The emotional, visual and auditory experience a mind blowing tour de force.
94% on RT, the other 6% probably just had to pee before the ending
Watch the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYPbbksJxIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYPbbksJxIg)
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Why see Oppenheimer in 70mm film? Because film has increased color depth, contrast and granular detail compared to digital. And Christopher Nolan filmed Oppenheimer in 70mm IMAX using film.
It's all about resolution too. Standard 70mm film (which is anything but standard) is about 6K-8K resolution, the IMAX 70mm film is 18K
In comparison a digital movie in a theater is 2K-4K but with a higher frame rate than a Blu-ray into a TV.
Behind the Scenes of Oppenheimer on 70mm IMAX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZlJOttCQQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZlJOttCQQ)
Oppenheimer 70mm vs. IMAX vs. Digital Explained | Beginner's Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SK_miOia8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5SK_miOia8)
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There have been very few movies in the last decade or so that could be worth seeing in the theater. This would be one of them. I do like that the Hollywood biopic trend has shifted away from the straight blatant well known subject matter and shifted more to the people around the center of focus and the subtlety within their stories. Perfect point is the recently released Nike biopic about signing Michael Jordan yet they never showed his face or voiced a line. Much more interesting and in depth than just the surface level subject matter. Definitely will find the time to see Oppenheimer.
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While the improved visual experience of 70mm or IMAX film is indeed wonderful, I will take a pass because of the (reported here) extreme SPL. My hearing is far too precious to me to endanger it with permanent damage from ridiculously high dynamic range (been there and done that decades ago). I went to see "Dunkirk" when it came out, but had my hands over my ears for much of the film; vowed to never let my hearing be an unwitting victim again - for anybody's idea of "art".
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While the improved visual experience of 70mm or IMAX film is indeed wonderful, I will take a pass because of the (reported here) extreme SPL. My hearing is far too precious to me to endanger it with permanent damage from ridiculously high dynamic range (been there and done that decades ago). I went to see "Dunkirk" when it came out, but had my hands over my ears for much of the film; vowed to never let my hearing be an unwitting victim again - for anybody's idea of "art".
Thanks for this insight. I was planning on meeting my wife at the theater this morning to see it, but excessively loud movies are no longer a good option for me. I already struggle with dialogue at movies, so I'll wait for the Blu ray and control the volume myself. What little hearing I have left is too important.
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...I'll wait for the Blu ray and control the volume myself.
That won't work for Oppenheimer. The sound volume changes from soft to raucous in the blink of an eye. You will be riding the volume control for 3 hours and not enjoying the film at all. Your wife will be saying "that's too soft" and "that's too loud" every couple of minutes.
Stop at an Ace Hardware on the way to the theater and pick up a pack of foam ear plugs for $4.50, that way everyone can have their own volume control.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=254983)
Oppenheimer really should be seen on a large screen, Christopher Nolan worked hard to get the cinematography perfect, it would be a travesty to watch the film on a TV when going to a theater is an option, unless you have a large screen plasma like I do. Every new TV I have watched including Sony looks like crap compared to a plasma. Though I don't say anything when watching at friend's houses, if they are happy I'm happy.
You may be like a good friend who will wait and watch Oppenheimer at home too, she doesn't care at all about what the picture looks like or how it sounds. I can't comprehend that at all.
Kodak Had to Engineer Brand-New 65mm Film Stock for the Black-and-White ‘Oppenheimer’ Sequences
https://www.indiewire.com/features/craft/oppenheimer-cinematography-imax-hoyte-van-hoytema-1234886893/ (https://www.indiewire.com/features/craft/oppenheimer-cinematography-imax-hoyte-van-hoytema-1234886893/)
"....director Christopher Nolan and go-to cinematographer Hoyte van Hoytema ventured into uncharted territory with the large-format IMAX camera to explore the landscape of faces.
[Cinematographer] "Van Hoytema usually relied on tight 80mm lenses for close-ups, but he needed to get closer than 6 feet for greater intimacy. With no available lenses, Panavision lens specialist Dan Sasak supplied and adapted Hasselblad, Panavision Sphero 65, and Panavision System 65 lenses for “Oppenheimer.”
"Kodak supplied 65mm film for the 15-perf IMAX and 5-perf Panavision cameras: 250D (5207) and 500T (5219) color negative and Double-X (5222) black-and-white negative. Yet the large-format black-and-white was a first for Kodak — and finishing it in 65mm was a challenge for IMAX. This required a partnership between Kodak/FotoKem/IMAX and Panavision to support the 65mm black-and-white workflow.
"But 65mm black-and-white didn’t exist, so the director and cinematographer asked Kodak if they would be able to produce it. “After months and months of trial and error,” said van Hoytelma, “they came back with several cans that had handwritten labels that we then could run through our cameras.
“But then we had to figure out the cameras,” he continued. “They don’t run the film through as they shoot because the emulsion is different and the backing of the film is different. So Panavision and IMAX had to re-engineer the cameras, especially the pressure plates. And FotoKem, the lab, had to come up with all kinds of different things, and the planning, and the infrastructure. When could we do black-and-white and when could we do color, and how are we going to plan our shoot around what we can achieve in the lab?”
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I too love going to the movie theater. Likely will see next weekend. Thanks for pointing this out and the review.
94% on RT, the other 6% probably just had to pee before the ending
Got a good chuckle out of this.
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My wife and I hope to see this before heading to Japan next month. We’ll be taking a day trip from Osaka to Hiroshima to see the Genbaku Dome and Itsukushima.
Thanks for the review and heads up on the IMAX 70mm version.
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Likely will see next weekend.
We went to the 12:00 noon screening on Sunday, that's real early for a matinee so my movie buddy said we won't need to buy tickets ahead of time. But I kept track anyway.
The Loft Cinema seats 350
10:00 am Thursday - 283 seats left
11:00 am Friday - 242 seats left - looking good, sales are slow
10:30 am Sat - 185 seats left
9:00 pm Sat - 90 seats left - I quickly bought tickets online
9:00 am Sunday - 9 seats left
No reserved seating so we arrived 1/2 hour early and got the last good seats.
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My wife saw the 10:45 show this morning.... along with one other person in the theater.
As far as ear plugs... that's not an option. If I take my hearing aids out to put in plugs, then no dialogue is decipherable.
Unfortunately, movies just don't work for me much anymore. :cry:
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Thanks for the review and heads up on the IMAX 70mm version.
Nolan fans are traveling hours to see 'Oppenheimer' in its intended 70mm IMAX format
"Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer dominated IMAX screens. Only 19 cinemas in the country [US] are showing it in its intended 70mm IMAX film format, leading some fans to several travel hours."
Listen to the 4 minute report featuring cinematographer Hoyte van Hoytema:
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189831555/nolan-fans-are-traveling-hours-to-see-oppenheimer-in-its-intended-70mm-imax-form (https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189831555/nolan-fans-are-traveling-hours-to-see-oppenheimer-in-its-intended-70mm-imax-form)
11 miles of film fly through the projector at 1.7 meters/second. That's hi-res! A friends reel-to-reel plays master tapes at 15 inches/second.
There are only 30 70mm IMAX 15/70 theaters worldwide, the others are digital laser.
List of IMAX venues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IMAX_venues (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IMAX_venues)
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Thanks! Lucky for us that there is a 70mm IMAX theater in a city next to us. Seats are reserved for all showings for a while though.
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Live music is way too loud and movies are, if anything, worse. If you want to hear everything, just at a safe volume, get a set of music earplugs (they look like IEMs) by Etymotic, Eardial, Earpiece and many others. The foam ones shown will destroy intelligibility by removing all high frequencies, The better 'high fidelity earplugs' reduce SPL more evenly than the foam blocks, making reproduced sound better, keeping music and voice fullrange. They cost more but for movies and live music, they're worth it. Now if they could just remove the patrons that talk throughout the films.....
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I've been a fan of great cinema since the days I took film classes in college. I always dreamt of owning my own personal copies of classics from early Russian filmmakers (and others) since many aspects of film production were developed in Russia. When laserdiscs were introduced, I purchased copies of every classic film I could get my hands on. Of course, today they are relatively useless, but I point this out since I have followed the development of film for the last 50 years.
I used to go to the cinema almost weekly until Covid hit. Since then, I've pretty much confined my movie-watching to our home theater system. When Oppenheimer was released, I noted that Nolan shot it in IMAX. So I figured the best place to see it would be in an IMAX theater.
Movie theaters have had a hard time surviving the past 2 - 3 years. I thought it was time to again support my local cinema and see this movie the way it was meant to be seen.
Unfortunately, it was not a good experience. As we made our way to our assigned seats, the previews started...nothing but action movies with CGI and incredibly loud soundtracks...boring. I couldn't wait to get through them and on to the Christopher Nolan classic. That is when I realized I had made a mistake.
It wasn't just loud, it was painfully loud. I would bet an SPL meter would easily register 120db (jet engine loud). It was so loud. I had to often stick my fingers in my ears to ease the pain. The soundtrack at these volumes totally distracted from the movie itself.
My rule for great sound is that it should never call attention to itself. It should be loud when appropriate for the on-screen action. But this was not just loud, it was painfully loud and way out of proportion to every scene with the possible exception of the nuclear blast itself.
Many of these IMAX theaters have sound systems with as much power as a rock concert setup. And some venues up the volume well beyond what the director had in mind. The result is a movie that is downright painful to watch. The volume ruined a great film for me. What's worse, it made me wonder if I would ever go to the cinema again. I don't have IMAX at home, but my sound system supports the visuals perfectly. I guess I learned my lesson.
- Jim
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Shame Hollywood couldn't get the American flag correct.........50 stars ??? 1945 there still only 48 states !!
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My rule for great sound is that it should never call attention to itself. It should be loud when appropriate for the on-screen action. But this was not just loud, it was painfully loud and way out of proportion to every scene with the possible exception of the nuclear blast itself.
Many of these IMAX theaters have sound systems with as much power as a rock concert setup. And some venues up the volume well beyond what the director had in mind. The result is a movie that is downright painful to watch. The volume ruined a great film for me. What's worse, it made me wonder if I would ever go to the cinema again. I don't have IMAX at home, but my sound system supports the visuals perfectly. I guess I learned my lesson.
This seems to be very much a Christopher Nolan problem. Here an interesting article on his penchant for "consistently get[ting] audio mixing unbearably out of alignment":
Every Christopher Nolan Movie Has The Exact Same Problem - But Will Oppenheimer?
https://www.looper.com/1340779/every-christopher-nolan-movie-exact-same-problem-audio-sound-mixing-oppenheimer/ (https://www.looper.com/1340779/every-christopher-nolan-movie-exact-same-problem-audio-sound-mixing-oppenheimer/)
I was planning on seeing this movie in 70mm film (2.20 aspect ratio) this week. It's a 9hr drive to nearest theater with IMAX 70mm film (1.43 aspect ratio), so that's not happening. I am tempted to ask the theater about volume complaints and what they have done about it, but I wonder if these theaters even have staff with the technical expertise to get the audio mixing set to the proper standard that allows it to reflect what the director has in mind. I do have Etymotic earplugs mentioned in this thread, so that is always an option.
An alternative might be going to a theater that I know isn't cutting edge with the latest sound system and just enjoy a seemingly well written and acted film in a dark theater in the company of strangers, popcorn and a cherry coke - proper aspect ratio and insanely loud max SPL notwithstanding.
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Many of these IMAX theaters have sound systems with as much power as a rock concert setup. And some venues up the volume well beyond what the director had in mind. The result is a movie that is downright painful to watch. The volume ruined a great film for me. What's worse, it made me wonder if I would ever go to the cinema again. I don't have IMAX at home, but my sound system supports the visuals perfectly. I guess I learned my lesson.
- Jim
I haven't been to an IMAX theater in years and over the last 9.5 years, I've been to see a movie in a theater twice and once was because a friend wanted to go. Where I lived before that 9.5 years it was around the same. I want to support theaters but I find that the best experience I have watching a movie is at home. Before COVID, it was often vs. many moons ago, one had to plan in advance as going to the theater often meant one had to settle for a second or third choice. Then there are people who are not considerate either with cell phones or constantly talking. So the last time I went to the theater several months back was the latest show on a week night and there was only a handful of people in the theater. The projector and sound system were nothing to write home about. My main system now (as of a couple of months back) has a 120 inch screen with an ultra short throw projector and 11 channels and two powerful subs. So unless someone I know really wants to go to the theater, I don't see value in it for me personally. Probably over the last 25 years, I've been to the theater a half dozen times (once to an IMAX) and in that time period I've never walked away impressed.
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I was planning on seeing this movie in 70mm film (2.20 aspect ratio) this week.
Do it! The 70mm film version looses a little off the top and bottom frame so you see less sky and less dirt but directors take this into account when shooting. I saw the 70mm version, not the IMAX and it was glorious.
Sound can be hit or miss. The small Loft Cinema in Tucson got the sound perfect. The loud parts were certainly loud but I didn't see anybody with fingers in ears and my movie buddy Alice didn't mention that the film was too loud, nothing like Jim's experience.
The Loft Cinema (https://loftcinema.org/) has quite a few 70mm movie showings every year so they are more experienced than other theaters. The Loft is also an independent theater, many patrons are either members and/or doners, they work hard to keep their loyal audience happy and keep the volume at a humane level. I have watched 2001: A Space Odyssey, Roma, Dunkirk and Tenet in 70mm. Previous 70mm films at The Loft include Lawrence of Arabia, The Wild Bunch, and Boogie Nights.
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My main system now (as of a couple of months back) has a 120 inch screen with an ultra short throw projector and 11 channels and two powerful subs.
... I've never walked away impressed.
Looks like a beautiful setup and the 4K digital Oppenheimer will look and sound stunning, but...
HOYTE VAN HOYTEMA: My name is Hoyte Van Hoytema. I'm the DP of "Oppenheimer." If you see for the first time an IMAX pure-contact print from a negative projected on the screen, it's like somebody is slapping you in the face.
QURESHI: When I told Hoyte Van Hoytema I wound up seeing the digital version, I asked him if I really needed to go back.
VAN HOYTEMA: Probably you do (laughter).
Quoted from a recent interview by BILAL QURESHI, BYLINE: Sunrise, Hollywood Boulevard's TCL Chinese Theatre (https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189831555/nolan-fans-are-traveling-hours-to-see-oppenheimer-in-its-intended-70mm-imax-form).
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IndieWire has the best article I have found that explains the difference between the four versions of Oppenheimer: 70mm IMAX, Digital IMAX, 70mm and 35mm
https://www.indiewire.com/features/craft/oppenheimer-70mm-imax-where-to-watch-1234885161/ (https://www.indiewire.com/features/craft/oppenheimer-70mm-imax-where-to-watch-1234885161/)
The 70mm IMAX print of Oppenheimer
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255025&size=large)
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The Loft Cinema (https://loftcinema.org/) has quite a few 70mm movie showings every year so they are more experienced than other theaters. The Loft is also an independent theater, many patrons are either members and/or doners, they work hard to keep their loyal audience happy and keep the volume at a humane level.
As an Arizona alumnus, I have many good memories heading out to the The Loft Cinema with friends - I enjoyed those years in Tucson. It's quite a treat to have a cinema like that.
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I've been to the IMAX theater at the Smithsonian in DC (probably about a dozen or so years back). I have a friend who used to work there (he works for the National Science Foundation now) and I got a private tour of the projection room. The process and equipment is quite impressive. There's an IMAX theater about 20 minutes from me. I've not ventured there. I might at some point (been saying that for a bunch of years). I guess I'm just comfortable with my current main set-up (which just got back together a couple of months back). I have secondary home theaters which are good (I have a 92 inch screen for my master bedroom projector which folds into the ceiling with the push of a button and a 65 inch UHD TV in another where I only sit about 7 feet away) and I'm just enamored with the new set-up and going through a bunch of movies I haven't watched in a bit.
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Just found The Day After Trinity, going to watch before August just in case it gets pulled
‘Oppenheimer’ Fans Are Rediscovering a 40-Year-Old Documentary
“The Day After Trinity,” made available without a subscription until August, shot to the top of the Criterion Channel’s most-watched films.
https://www.criterionchannel.com/the-day-after-trinity/videos/the-day-after-trinity (https://www.criterionchannel.com/the-day-after-trinity/videos/the-day-after-trinity)
One morning in the 1950s, Jon H. Else’s father pointed toward Nevada from their home in Sacramento. “There was this orange glow that suddenly rose up in the sky, and then shrank back down,” Else recalled.
It was, hundreds of miles away, an atomic weapon test: a symbol of the world that was created when a team of Americans led by the physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer exploded the first nuclear bomb a decade earlier on July 16, 1945.
Growing up in the nuclear age left an impression on Else, now 78.
He was later a series producer of the award-winning “Eyes on the Prize,” a program on the civil rights movement, and directed documentaries about the Great Depression and Wagner’s “Ring” cycle. But before all that, in 1981, he made a documentary about Oppenheimer, the scientist whose bony visage graced the covers of midcentury magazines, and the bomb. It was called “The Day After Trinity,” a reference to that inaugural detonation.
Decades later, viewers are flocking to Else’s film, a nominee for the Academy Award for best documentary feature, as a companion to Christopher Nolan’s biopic “Oppenheimer,” which grossed more than $100 million domestically in its opening week this month.
“We have seen a huge increase in views,” Criterion said in a statement, “and we’re very happy with the success of the strategy as a way to make sure this film found its rightful place in the conversation around ‘Oppenheimer.’”
In a phone interview from California last week, Else, a professor emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley, praised Nolan’s film, which he saw last weekend in San Francisco. (A spokeswoman for Nolan said he was not available to comment.)
“These stories have to be retold every generation,” Else said, “and they have to be told by new storytellers.”
The Oppenheimer of “Oppenheimer” (based on Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin’s Pulitzer Prize-winning biography “American Prometheus”), and the Oppenheimer of “The Day After Trinity” are the same brilliant, sensitive, haunted soul. “This man who was apparently a completely nonviolent fellow was the architect of the most savage weapon in history,” Else said.
The movies feature some of the same characters from the life of Oppenheimer, who died in 1967, including his brother, Frank (played in “Oppenheimer” by Dylan Arnold), his friend Haakon Chevalier (Jefferson Hall) and the physicist Isidor Isaac Rabi (David Krumholtz). Both films build to Trinity and then document the conflict between some of its inventors’ hope that the bomb would never be used in war and its deployment in Japan, the invention of the more devastating hydrogen bomb and the nuclear arms race of the Cold War.
A central plot point in each movie is a closed hearing in 1954 at which Oppenheimer was stripped of his government security clearance, partly because of past left-wing associations. David Webb Peoples, a co-editor and co-writer of “The Day After Trinity” — whose later screenwriting credits include “Blade Runner,” “Unforgiven” and “12 Monkeys” — even proposed structuring the film around the hearing, as Nolan did with “Oppenheimer.”
“The closest he ever came to an autobiography is his personal statement at the beginning of the hearing,” said Else, who focused on interviews with firsthand witnesses, old footage and still photographs rather than trying to recreate the hearing.
“It’s also a courtroom drama,” Else added, “and who is not going to pay attention to a courtroom drama?”
One place “The Day After Trinity” goes that “Oppenheimer” does not is Hiroshima. In the documentary, Manhattan Project physicists recount wandering the wrecked Japanese city. The narrator explains that the Allies had not bombed it beforehand to preserve a place to demonstrate the new weapon.
Else returned to the topic in his 2007 documentary, “Wonders Are Many: The Making of ‘Doctor Atomic,’” which chronicles the composer John Adams’s opera about Oppenheimer. Else is currently working on a book about nuclear testing. And in 1982, he made a one-hour episode of the public-television series “Nova” about the Exploratorium, the San Francisco science museum that was founded in 1969 by none other than Frank Oppenheimer.
“Making ‘The Day After Trinity’ was a pretty rugged ride — it’s pretty rugged subject matter,” Else said. “After I finished it, it was such a joy to spend a year with Robert Oppenheimer’s younger brother, Frank, and celebrate the joy of science.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/movies/day-after-trinity-oppenheimer-documentary.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/movies/day-after-trinity-oppenheimer-documentary.html)
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Several days ago my wife and I visited Hiroshima as a day trip from Osaka. We’re now in Kyoto. Just thought I’d share a few photos.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256610)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256611)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256612)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256613)
The items, images, photos and stories in the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum were heart wrenching. We spent several hours in there.
This photo greets you:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256614)
However the rest of the day was more uplifting. We went to the Okonomimura building for lunch. I didn’t realize that this was my wife’s first experience with okonomiyaki.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256615)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256616)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256617)
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My apologies (for taking so long to respond) as I only just discovered your posted photos today.
The bottom two photos look very much like something that is quite popular in Taiwan. The rough English translation is 'oyster pancake' though it barely resembles the pancakes we eat in the States.
Michael
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No worries Michael. I have tried oyster pancakes before which is also very good. Fermented tofu is another story.
Back to topic, I’m waiting for my 4K version of this movie.
Oh, and I hope that you’re enjoying your all tube system Michael.
Ken