AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: jsalk on 16 Nov 2011, 09:09 pm

Title: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: jsalk on 16 Nov 2011, 09:09 pm
James wanted a bookshelf speaker for his New York apartment.  He wanted high quality sound in a very small and portable package.  He didn't need great bass extension but wanted state-of-the-art performance.  We discussed driver options and settled on our standard RAAL ribbon tweeter coupled with 5" ScanSpeak Illuminator drivers.

He also requested that the cabinets be fashioned out of bamboo, but wanted ebony veneer.

Here is a picture...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53851)

And a close-up...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=53852)

James injured his back and doesn't want to unpack speakers until he feels better.  So we'll be listening to these for a while before they ship.

When they do ship, happy listening James!

- Jim
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: TF1216 on 16 Nov 2011, 09:23 pm
Must have a pair!  Nice stuff!!
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Wayner on 16 Nov 2011, 09:30 pm
What physical size are they?

Wayner
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: groovybassist on 16 Nov 2011, 09:46 pm
I have a small monitor fetish (my only vice of course) and these look great.  Love the idea of small, high-performance speakers.  An idea of rough pricing would be great to know.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: roymail on 16 Nov 2011, 10:06 pm
Those are gorgeous.  Are they 4 or 8 ohms, and what sensitivity?

Thanks,
Roy in TX
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: eclein on 16 Nov 2011, 10:44 pm
BINGO!!!! How much Jim??? Please PM me with info on that speaker in stock cabinet. Thanks Jim!!!
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: DMurphy on 16 Nov 2011, 10:51 pm
  The impedance is 8 ohms.   Sensitivity is low.  Scan specs the woofer at at 83.4 dB.  I think that's too conservative, but after taking into account the crossover with baffle step compensation,
the system sensitivity is close to that.  Not a candidate for SET's.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Meicheng on 16 Nov 2011, 11:02 pm
Those are beautiful (as are all the pics Jim posts).  With a nice solid state power amp and tube preamp I bet those would really sing. 
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: ratso on 17 Nov 2011, 12:12 am
so let's get this straight ed. are you trying to ask how much the speakers cost?  :green:

those are really cool btw
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: pansixt on 17 Nov 2011, 12:24 am
With all of the images we have seen lately of Salk speakers in various finishes of Bamboo, I really have to rethink my preferred material and finish.

These are bad ass. 8)

James

Edit: I should mention that I am not the James that is awaiting these babies.
Damn!!!!
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: eclein on 17 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm
so let's get this straight ed. are you trying to ask how much the speakers cost?  :green:

those are really cool btw

YUP!!!!!!! I want some and I really hope they are under 1K, hopefully a lot under. I would even supply cabinets!!!
 LOL...I am nuts  ratso!!! :no_see: :no_hear: :no_speak:
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: jtwrace on 17 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm
hope they are under 1K,

I think you're dreamin' BIG time!  Look at the cost of drivers alone. 
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: jsalk on 17 Nov 2011, 01:01 pm
I think you're dreamin' BIG time!  Look at the cost of drivers alone. 

Right.  I haven't taken the time to compute the cost yet, but the drivers alone are about $1500.  Then you have the crossover parts, the cost of building the crossover, binding posts (probably want good ones) and the cost of building and finishing the cabinets.  So the cost would probably be at least $2500 per pair...perhaps more.  The fact that they are small has no particular bearing on their cost.

- Jim 
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: jtwrace on 17 Nov 2011, 01:02 pm
Right.  I haven't taken the time to compute the cost yet, but the drivers alone are about $1500.  Then you have the crossover parts, the cost of building the crossover, binding posts (probably want good ones) and the cost of building and finishing the cabinets.  So the cost would probably be at least $2500 per pair...perhaps more.  The fact that they are small has no particular bearing on their cost.

- Jim

Yep.  I figured $2850ish.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: eclein on 17 Nov 2011, 01:39 pm
You never know unless you ask right. I'm still a bit newish to this whole thing so I'll take a little slack....LOL....I bet they sound awesome though even though its a huge stretch for me. Someday.... :thumb:
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Big Red Machine on 17 Nov 2011, 01:40 pm
You never know unless you ask right. I'm still a bit newish to this whole thing so I'll take a little slack....LOL....I bet they sound awesome though even though its a huge stretch for me. Someday.... :thumb:

There's always Song Surrounds.  They are monitors.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: eclein on 17 Nov 2011, 01:46 pm
Big Red I like your thinking......there is always a way, sorta.
The thing is though I gotta do a Raal Tweeter, I wonder how close in sound the Fountek Ribbons are to Raal ones. I know the cost difference is huge but maybe Jim has heard both or you my friend Jason. Are we talking night and day difference...seriously. Is it Porsche or Ferrari compared to Fountek??

 I'm curious so don't bust my balls OK.....Jason..LOL :thumb:
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Nuance on 17 Nov 2011, 02:00 pm
Those are truly stunning!  You're a luck man, James; welcome to the Salk family!
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Big Red Machine on 17 Nov 2011, 02:12 pm
Big Red I like your thinking......there is always a way, sorta.
The thing is though I gotta do a Raal Tweeter, I wonder how close in sound the Fountek Ribbons are to Raal ones. I know the cost difference is huge but maybe Jim has heard both or you my friend Jason. Are we talking night and day difference...seriously. Is it Porsche or Ferrari compared to Fountek??

 I'm curious so don't bust my balls OK.....Jason..LOL :thumb:

That's for Dennis or Jim.  I would say the Fountek is close but not quite a smooth.  But if you are trying to get the price lower it sounds like a decent option.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: ricardojoa on 17 Nov 2011, 02:16 pm
Wow, those look really cute. Jim, i didnt know you do these type of custom design.
Can i ask if you would design anopen baffle system 3 way with Raal? I dont need super expensive driver. Just adequate for application and i wanted them to be small/monitor. Im after great sound stage and ambience and your quality finish.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: ratso on 17 Nov 2011, 05:51 pm
Jim, i didnt know you do these type of custom design

i don't think any of us have ever heard Jim say no to anything - if it can be built he will do it if you want it. but he is also good at suggesting modifications/alternatives that will work better for you if you come up with something crazy. give him a call you won't regret it  :thumb:
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: DMurphy on 17 Nov 2011, 05:56 pm
That's for Dennis or Jim.  I would say the Fountek is close but not quite a smooth.  But if you are trying to get the price lower it sounds like a decent option.

I've used the Fountek in quite a few designs.  I would say its performance is midway between a good dome and the RAAL.  It can be crossed fairly low and has an open, clean sound.  Just not as open as the RAAL.  But without the RAAL for direct comparison, I think anyone would be very pleased with the Fountek.  Excellent value as well. 
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Art_Chicago on 17 Nov 2011, 07:19 pm
Dennis and/or Jim,
Can you describe the difference among the woofers used by SalkSound: Excel vs. Illuminator vs. Accuton?
Thank you.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: DMurphy on 18 Nov 2011, 04:53 am
Dennis and/or Jim,
Can you describe the difference among the woofers used by SalkSound: Excel vs. Illuminator vs. Accuton?
Thank you.
Hmmmmm.   Well, the illuminator is kind of an odd duck.  It's waaaaaaaaaay expensive, and an awful lot of that is due to the beautiful machining that minimizes obstructions to the back flow.  You never see that, of course, so it comes down to a question of whether you can hear any advantage to the elegant construction.  It seemed like an obvious candidate for the open-back SoundScape cabinets.   We gave it a try, but it just didn't have enough sensitivity.  It would have been swamped by the woofer.  The Accuton 3" midrange that we ended up with has extrmely low distortion and excellent dispersion.  We tried an Accuton 7" woofer in an MT monitor, but the first unit shattered when pushed, and the second did the same thing.  Can you say bye bye to $600?

The Excel really doesn't have any deficiencies once the breakup mode is suppressed.  It's not a "warm" driver,  but it is clean as a whistle and easy to work with.  It's probably my favorite, followed by the Scan Revelator series in the 5"-7" size category. 
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Art_Chicago on 18 Nov 2011, 05:28 am
Thank you, sir.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Big Red Machine on 21 Nov 2011, 10:22 pm
These sound very nice.  Jim fired them up at the shop today and the played very nicely.  Those 2 drivers together are pretty nifty.  Went pretty deep as well.  Full-bodied and imaging to die for.  Took 2 seconds and I was hooked.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Wayner on 21 Nov 2011, 10:25 pm
What physical size are they?

Wayner

Apparently, no one has a tape measure.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Art_Chicago on 22 Nov 2011, 02:21 am
Apparently, no one has a tape measure.

Based on the 5" driver, I am guessing they are about 7" wide, 11-12" high and maybe 8" deep?
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: jsalk on 23 Nov 2011, 07:09 pm
Apparently, no one has a tape measure.

I found my tape measure!  They are 14" tall, 8" wide and 10.5" deep.  Hopefully I won't lose that tape measure again.

- Jim
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Wayner on 23 Nov 2011, 07:26 pm
Thank's Jim. Trying to decide if they would fit on my shelf. I know up against the wall is not a great place, but that's all I got.

Wayner
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: TomW16 on 29 Nov 2011, 04:54 pm
Hey Wayner,

Since the Salk speakers are custom made, I bet you could sweet talk Dennis into adjusting the crossovers for the speakers to be placed up against the wall.

Kind regards,
Tom
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Nuance on 30 Nov 2011, 02:29 pm
I've used the Fountek in quite a few designs.  I would say its performance is midway between a good dome and the RAAL.  It can be crossed fairly low and has an open, clean sound.  Just not as open as the RAAL.  But without the RAAL for direct comparison, I think anyone would be very pleased with the Fountek.  Excellent value as well. 

How does the Fountek compare to the LCY or G2?
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Big Red Machine on 30 Nov 2011, 02:49 pm

How does the Fountek compare to the LCY or G2?
I've used the Fountek in quite a few designs.  I would say its performance is midway between a good dome and the RAAL.  It can be crossed fairly low and has an open, clean sound.  Just not as open as the RAAL.  But without the RAAL for direct comparison, I think anyone would be very pleased with the Fountek.  Excellent value as well.
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: rlee8394 on 30 Nov 2011, 11:40 pm
I absolutely love the Fountek tweeter in my custom Salk Song Tower Special Edition loudspeakers. Smooth, detailed, and they image like crazy. Soundstage seems to extend three of four feet past the cabinets!

See 'em here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=95642.0

Ron
Title: Re: Small monitors - big performance
Post by: Nuance on 1 Dec 2011, 03:18 am
I hear ya BRM, but I am looking for a direct comparo to the ones I mentioned.  Somewhere midway between isn't descriptive enough. :)