[witchdoctor]

I am not posting to criticize Atmos, but to criticize your criticism of Bryston for not having ALLM or VRR on its SP4. This is annoying. In fact, take a look at the SP4 and on its cover is states "Home Theater Processor." The unit is not configured with video games in mind, but rather, home theater.

So basically your only reason for being in this thread is to annoy me??
Can you PLEASE focus more on the SP4??
Now viewers back to our regular programming:

One of the pluses about the SP4 is dealer support. Am I capable of setting up Dirac and all the cables? I suppose. Do I WANT to? Hell no. So for me that is a big plus. But dealer support has to come with product upgrade support. Installing a new HDMI card for me is a PIA. I would MUCH rather get an e-mail from my dealer with a message, "Hey, when can I stop by to upgrade your SP4".
There are cheaper 16 channel processors out there so the main reason for me to spend more is not SQ. I don't think they make bad sounding processors when you are spending north of $5K let alone $10K. For me the deciding factor is upgradeability and red carpet service. Otherwise might as well spend south of $5K and just continue to get a new processor every 5 years.

[gbaby]

It always boils down to ROI, both for the consumer and respectfully to the vendor as well.
To the guys at Bryston, when it is time for the SP5 to roll out you need to think these things through in advance.
How would a marketing brochure look with ad copy like Gary's last post? "We think we may update these products from time to time in the future, we just don't have an answer yet???" Not good.
.
Gary or James, if you need help negotiating with storm reach out to Wilfried at Galaxy Studio's who spun the company off in the first place. great guy and he will probably give you some ideas that you won't need an NDA for. Good luck!

https://www.galaxystudios.com

The reason for my most recent posts is the above post by you. 

[witchdoctor]

The reason for my most recent posts is the above post by you. 

Sorry Gbaby but that issue is 100% legitimate, Bryston is aware of this and we are waiting for a post by the company to find out what is going on, don't touch that dial

[Alphonse]

Yes WD, modularity, upgradability, future proofing is a high priority for me as well. I guess we may all draw the $$$ line on ROI differently, but for my money even processors south of $5000 that turn into glorified door stops after 4-5 years does not represent good customer ROI to me. I have no doubts about Bryston customer service. Dealer support after the sale can vary IMO. It seems that making a go of it these days as a brick and mortar store can be a challenge. And more and more HT dealers seem to be installers without showrooms to demo the product. I do not need installation services. Maybe I am too old school. As I mentioned to gbaby I want to listen to both SP3 and SP4 and trust my ears.

Al

[gbaby]

Sorry Gbaby but that issue is 100% legitimate, Bryston is aware of this and we are waiting for a post by the company to find out what is going on, don't touch that dial

If I were Bryston, I would not care about folks like you. You are a low fi kind of person who cares only of features for frivolous pursuits You want a Porsche with a Lincoln Continental ride. Or maybe I should say, you want a Lincoln Continental ride with a Porsche performance. You can't have everything in life.  You really don't get it. Buy Bryston, any Bryston, and maybe you will understand as it concerns audio. I am 65 years old and you sound like a youngster to me (I'm being kind) with your posts. I sold hi end audio equipment in the '70s in college in Durham, NC. I have an understanding of the audio industry, marketing, and the best product for the money. Bryston is the only product I have purchased where I felt I got my money's worth, and everything else I heard in its price range was appreciably inferior. I will say to you that if you need features like you are "waiting by the company to find out what is going on," then maybe you need another product. But, if your focus is on sonic accuracy and the best sound and hi fidelity for the money, then buy Bryston. You may need separate game room and audio room, I don't know. 

[witchdoctor]

"If I were Bryston, yada,yada, yada, NADA" 

Good luck with that!!

[CanadianMaestro]

Bryston is the only product I have purchased where I felt I got my money's worth, and everything else I heard in its price range was appreciably inferior. But, if your focus is on sonic accuracy and the best sound and hi fidelity for the money, then buy Bryston. You may need separate game room and audio room, I don't know. 

Gaming does seem like underkill for something like the SP4, just look at its features.


I'm with you on Bryston. Amazing quality and SYNERGY vs. other brands I've tried. 
Like you, I've found what I like, and it's for life.  $pending the dough on other stuff, not gear.

[Rod_S]

One thing people can't lose focus of with the SP4 is that it is practically 100% still a Storm ISP 3D.16 ELITE minus of course the new face plate, Bryston logo coded into the firmware and possibly a few other minor tweaks (unless I hear otherwise) however until Bryston breaks formal firmware support ties with Storm and flashes the unit with a complete custom Bryston firmware and starts adding hardware designed and built by Bryston like the possible module James had mentioned it's still a Storm unit.

So talk about Bryston's build and design philosophy doesn't apply to this unit, not yet, that's a discussion for the SP3, Bryston's amps, etc. This unit as we know goes against James' approach to audio and was not his decision to on board the product. I suspect it was a corporate decision to keep the name Bryston relevant within the SSP market because I imagine the SP3 is a very niche product within what it already a niche market to begin with i.e. high end SSP's and Bryston was undoubtedly losing sales by not having a unit with a few more of current gen audio and video features.

For me a unit like this is purchased with home theater in mind 1st (vs being an audiophile level piece) however the reality is the unit will get much more use serving up cable tv, apps like Youtube, stereo music via my BDP-2 and gaming then it will DVD's, Blu-ray, and 4k Blu-rays from my standalone Oppo UDP-205 or movies/tv via streaming services. All this always goes through my 5 Bryston amps (2x28B-SST2, 2x7B-SST2 & a 4B-SST C-Series) and B&W Diamond speakers (2x800D2, 2x802D2 and a HTM2D2) with 3 Paradigm subs (2xServo 15a's and a Sub 25).

With Hollywood studios often mastering lackluster audio in their movies it's the gaming industry that have taken on the champion of surround sound and immersive audio. Audio in modern games is nothing short of astonishing featuring magnificent orchestral scores to utterly bombastic explosions, environmental effects etc. And since you are an active participant not passive like with watching movies as you move your character, car, ship, plane, etc. around the soundtrack conforms to you and where you are in a 360 degree environment (game dependent of course) so sounds are shifting all around you all of the time relative to where you are.

Are units like these built with gaming in mind, of course not I'm not naive but's it's gaming that truly does get the most out of them as an audio and video device

[witchdoctor]

Tell me an SP4 wouldn't slide perfectly into my system. You can see the current processor Marantz 7702 on the bottom, the Sony UHPH1 BRD above it. 120 inch screen in the middle. L-C-R speakers are Paradigm Active 40's and Active CC, the surround heights are Paradigm Active 20's. Then you can see the Center Height channel above the screen on the ceiling, Paradigm 400 Cinema. Finally the Paradigm Shift A2 Active speaker wide channels. Wide channels are KEY and very significant IMO. Mine are placed upside down (you can't see with the grills on) so the tweeters are on the same plane as the L-C-R speakers. The driver is now a little above the L-C-R speaker helping fill in not only between the front and rear speakers but the front bed and height channels as well. The wide channels are engaged using Audyssey DSX and DTS-Neo-X. If I get the SP4 I can use them with Atmos and DTS-X  but not Auro 3D. Every one of those active speakers are internally bi-amped with active crossovers. The subwoofer is the 2500 watt Sunfire TSEQ -10 :

[witchdoctor]

The Sony will play just about any disc type out there except UHD. I am waiting for the new HDMI standards before plunking down for a 4K PJ and my NEXT processor (SP4 is a candidate). The rear of the system you can see those same Active 40's as side surrounds and Active 20's as surround heights. The Optoma PJ on the ceiling, two VOG speakers, one mounted abobe each MLP. Back of the room are my back surround channels Paradigm Reference 20's (passive version of the Active 20's). Once I get a 16 channel processors those will become rear height channels and I'll mount two more Cinema 400's on the wall as rear surround channels. I chose an Auro 3D layout as Atmos sounds just fine in an Auro layout but Auro sounds bad in an atmos layout. For those of you wondering which layout to use for an SP4 I would recommend the Auro 3D layout every time. If you wanted you could move the side height channels to the rear and it would even be Atmos compliant and also sound good with Auro 3D.

[witchdoctor]

Man cave is an Onkyo RZ630 9 channel receiver, a Bluesound Node Streamer and two gaming systems, the X-Box One and Nintendo Switch. Bed channels are JBL 230's and 225 CC mounted on Mapleshade Bedrock stands, subwoofer is the matching JBL 250P. Height channels are JBL Control Now (incredible) and a 4K TCL Smart TV with HDR and Dolby Vision. I have matching height channels mounted in the rear and wall mounted JBL 210 surround channels which you can't see in this pic:

[witchdoctor]

That X-Box one is a $200 wonder. This movie is from the Vudu app from the X-Box, notice it is in 4K, Dolby Vision and Atmos, all streamed NP and the picture just POPS on the screen:

[witchdoctor]

I would feel 100% comfortable using the X-Box as the front in in the media room as well but don't need 4K capabilities just yet. I REALLY want an SP4 as long as the card issues get ironed out and who knows, maybe Bryston will have some new features Storm doesn't offer by the end of the year.

Let me say to anyone using the SP4 GET WIDE CHANNELS. Phenomenal with movies, music, and live concert videos.

 

[NekoAudio]

Only comments I have are that Atmos is definitely in demand by a non-trivial subset of the viewing population, and that set-top boxes and game consoles are not uncommon devices to hook up in a high-end surround sound setup. Especially considering the popularity of video streaming services.

The Xbox One S/X is a particularly interesting compatibility test in my experience, since it runs at 4Kp60 due to the UI overlay requirements even if the video content is 4Kp24/30. The PlayStation 4 Pro has some interesting compatibility issues as well.

[drummermitchell]

The Sony will play just about any disc type out there except UHD. I am waiting for the new HDMI standards before plunking down for a 4K PJ and my NEXT processor (SP4 is a candidate). The rear of the system you can see those same Active 40's as side surrounds and Active 20's as surround heights. The Optoma PJ on the ceiling, two VOG speakers, one mounted abobe each MLP. Back of the room are my back surround channels Paradigm Reference 20's (passive version of the Active 20's). Once I get a 16 channel processors those will become rear height channels and I'll mount two more Cinema 400's on the wall as rear surround channels. I chose an Auro 3D layout as Atmos sounds just fine in an Auro layout but Auro sounds bad in an atmos layout. For those of you wondering which layout to use for an SP4 I would recommend the Auro 3D layout every time. If you wanted you could move the side height channels to the rear and it would even be Atmos compliant and also sound good with Auro 3D.

[drummermitchell]

Mother of audio
All those speakers that close to each other
Extreme hard surfaces everywhere
No treatment anywhere
Small room
Definite Nightmare
Definitely two channel would sound good  1000 times better than all those frequencies slamming into each other
If it works for u enjoy
Personally the Mojo has left the room,hearing it or NOT.

[witchdoctor]

Mother of audio
All those speakers that close to each other
Extreme hard surfaces everywhere
No treatment anywhere
Small room
Definite Nightmare
Definitely two channel would sound good  1000 times better than all those frequencies slamming into each other
If it works for u enjoy
Personally the Mojo has left the room,hearing it or NOT.

Yeah, I should add some room treatments to the back wall but the side walls have drapes, there is a carpeted floor and those plush recliners are very absorptive. Audyessey really does a nice job with room correction and the measurements are fine (but Dirac would probably be better if I get an SP4).
You never engage ALL of those speakers at once in any of the various setups. For example there is something called "Pure Direct" if I want just two channel stereo, Auro 3D doesn't engage the rear channels, Atmos doesn't engage VOG or the wide channels, etc. Another intereresting feature about those Paradigm Active speakers is they have a switch on the back if you are using a subwoofer to trim some of the bass extension. You'll also notice that I don't use tower or floor standing speakers, the smaller speakers I use are a huge advantage in a smaller type room IMO.
So do YOU own an SP4 yet or looking to buy one? You sound like a two channel or multi-channel guy that still hasn't installed an immersive HT.

When I look at your system on your systems page I think those towers are overkill for the size of your room and your center channel is mounted way too low below your screen. It would sound better if all tweeters were on the same level (approximately ear level) like I have mine.
 With that center so low why not tilt it up a little using Auralex pads?

[gbaby]

One thing people can't lose focus of with the SP4 is that it is practically 100% still a Storm ISP 3D.16 ELITE minus of course the new face plate, Bryston logo coded into the firmware and possibly a few other minor tweaks (unless I hear otherwise) however until Bryston breaks formal firmware support ties with Storm and flashes the unit with a complete custom Bryston firmware and starts adding hardware designed and built by Bryston like the possible module James had mentioned it's still a Storm unit.

So talk about Bryston's build and design philosophy doesn't apply to this unit, not yet, that's a discussion for the SP3, Bryston's amps, etc. This unit as we know goes against James' approach to audio and was not his decision to on board the product. I suspect it was a corporate decision to keep the name Bryston relevant within the SSP market because I imagine the SP3 is a very niche product within what it already a niche market to begin with i.e. high end SSP's and Bryston was undoubtedly losing sales by not having a unit with a few more of current gen audio and video features.

For me a unit like this is purchased with home theater in mind 1st (vs being an audiophile level piece) however the reality is the unit will get much more use serving up cable tv, apps like Youtube, stereo music via my BDP-2 and gaming then it will DVD's, Blu-ray, and 4k Blu-rays from my standalone Oppo UDP-205 or movies/tv via streaming services. All this always goes through my 5 Bryston amps (2x28B-SST2, 2x7B-SST2 & a 4B-SST C-Series) and B&W Diamond speakers (2x800D2, 2x802D2 and a HTM2D2) with 3 Paradigm subs (2xServo 15a's and a Sub 25).

With Hollywood studios often mastering lackluster audio in their movies it's the gaming industry that have taken on the champion of surround sound and immersive audio. Audio in modern games is nothing short of astonishing featuring magnificent orchestral scores to utterly bombastic explosions, environmental effects etc. And since you are an active participant not passive like with watching movies as you move your character, car, ship, plane, etc. around the soundtrack conforms to you and where you are in a 360 degree environment (game dependent of course) so sounds are shifting all around you all of the time relative to where you are.

Are units like these built with gaming in mind, of course not I'm not naive but's it's gaming that truly does get the most out of them as an audio and video device

I have not been on this thread in the past few days, but I'd have to say that this is another good post by you. 

[gbaby]

Tell me an SP4 wouldn't slide perfectly into my system. You can see the current processor Marantz 7702 on the bottom, the Sony UHPH1 BRD above it. 120 inch screen in the middle. L-C-R speakers are Paradigm Active 40's and Active CC, the surround heights are Paradigm Active 20's. Then you can see the Center Height channel above the screen on the ceiling, Paradigm 400 Cinema. Finally the Paradigm Shift A2 Active speaker wide channels. Wide channels are KEY and very significant IMO. Mine are placed upside down (you can't see with the grills on) so the tweeters are on the same plane as the L-C-R speakers. The driver is now a little above the L-C-R speaker helping fill in not only between the front and rear speakers but the front bed and height channels as well. The wide channels are engaged using Audyssey DSX and DTS-Neo-X. If I get the SP4 I can use them with Atmos and DTS-X  but not Auro 3D. Every one of those active speakers are internally bi-amped with active crossovers. The subwoofer is the 2500 watt Sunfire TSEQ -10 :

All you need is better electronics like the SP4.

[witchdoctor]

Now you know why I started this thread, the SP4 is the potential upgrade I need.